Hello to all,

I have a small Ryobi lathe. My father bought it, never used, and I ended up
with it. You all know this part of the story... "out in my shop one day I
decided to play... two days later I started getting the shakes and really
needed to turn something..."

Anyway, there are several things I don't like about this lathe, and am
considering buying a new one. I would love to buy a larger one that would
allow me to turn larger items, but I do still like to turn smalll things
(pens, mini-bowls, etc.) So here is my question. Can a full-size lathe
turn the small stuff just as well? Or is the larger lathe "awkward" when
turning small things?

Thanks for you help!

dw

In article bHKBf.755415$xm3.511692@attbi_s21, "dw"
wrote:

Hello to all,

I have a small Ryobi lathe. My father bought it, never used, and I ended up
with it. You all know this part of the story... "out in my shop one day I
decided to play... two days later I started getting the shakes and really
needed to turn something..."

Anyway, there are several things I don't like about this lathe, and am
considering buying a new one. I would love to buy a larger one that would
allow me to turn larger items, but I do still like to turn smalll things
(pens, mini-bowls, etc.) So here is my question. Can a full-size lathe
turn the small stuff just as well? Or is the larger lathe "awkward" when
turning small things?

A good large lathe can turn anything from lace-bobbins, pens, or
ornaments to 20+ inch bread bowls

The real question is, what is your budget (both space and size)?

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

I have a powermatic 3520A, with a bed extension. I can turn up to a 20"
diameter, and about 5 feet long. I regularly turn small items 9grawer knobs,
bowls, etc.

A decent big lathe should be able to so small stuff. A small one won't be
able to do big stuff though....

depends on your budget. The 3520B (replaces the 3520A) goes for about $2,500
or so. A similar sized oneway is probably closer to $3,500 or $4,000.....


--JD



"dw" wrote in message
news:bHKBf.755415$xm3.511692@attbi_s21...
Hello to all,

I have a small Ryobi lathe. My father bought it, never used, and I ended
up with it. You all know this part of the story... "out in my shop one
day I decided to play... two days later I started getting the shakes and
really needed to turn something..."

Anyway, there are several things I don't like about this lathe, and am
considering buying a new one. I would love to buy a larger one that would
allow me to turn larger items, but I do still like to turn smalll things
(pens, mini-bowls, etc.) So here is my question. Can a full-size lathe
turn the small stuff just as well? Or is the larger lathe "awkward" when
turning small things?

Thanks for you help!

dw

I never turned a pen until I bought my 20" General. Works beautifully!
billh

"dw" wrote in message
news:bHKBf.755415$xm3.511692@attbi_s21...
Hello to all,

I have a small Ryobi lathe. My father bought it, never used, and I ended
up with it. You all know this part of the story... "out in my shop one
day I decided to play... two days later I started getting the shakes and
really needed to turn something..."

Anyway, there are several things I don't like about this lathe, and am
considering buying a new one. I would love to buy a larger one that would
allow me to turn larger items, but I do still like to turn smalll things
(pens, mini-bowls, etc.) So here is my question. Can a full-size lathe
turn the small stuff just as well? Or is the larger lathe "awkward" when
turning small things?

Thanks for you help!

dw

Because of the extra mass, weight, stiffness - and just simply having elbow
room to move yourself around and get comfortable - it is often easier to
turn small things on a big lathe than it is on a small lathe.

In fact, it's easier to turn anything on a big lathe than on a small one.

Then why ever get a small one? Space (duh) and budget limitations,
sometimes portability. And because turning on a small lathe is way better
than not turning at all.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI


"dw" wrote in message
news:bHKBf.755415$xm3.511692@attbi_s21...
Hello to all,

I have a small Ryobi lathe. My father bought it, never used, and I ended
up with it. You all know this part of the story... "out in my shop one
day I decided to play... two days later I started getting the shakes and
really needed to turn something..."

Anyway, there are several things I don't like about this lathe, and am
considering buying a new one. I would love to buy a larger one that would
allow me to turn larger items, but I do still like to turn smalll things
(pens, mini-bowls, etc.) So here is my question. Can a full-size lathe
turn the small stuff just as well? Or is the larger lathe "awkward" when
turning small things?

Thanks for you help!

dw

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:04:07 GMT, "dw" wrote:

Hello to all,

I have a small Ryobi lathe. My father bought it, never used, and I ended up
with it. You all know this part of the story... "out in my shop one day I
decided to play... two days later I started getting the shakes and really
needed to turn something..."

Anyway, there are several things I don't like about this lathe, and am
considering buying a new one. I would love to buy a larger one that would
allow me to turn larger items, but I do still like to turn smalll things
(pens, mini-bowls, etc.) So here is my question. Can a full-size lathe
turn the small stuff just as well? Or is the larger lathe "awkward" when
turning small things?

Thanks for you help!

dw

When my "less than a year old" Jet mini died and went in on warranty for a new
motor, I bought a Jet 1442 while I was at the dealers...

I really expected to keep using the mini (when I got it back) for small stuff
and the 1442 for bowls over 10" diameter...
I've had the 1442 since June 05 and the only thing the mini gets turned on for
is when my kid uses it or I throw the buffing system on it... the larger (to me)
lathe is more comfortable, has more room to lay chisels and stuff on, and just
generally easier to use because of the power and the ability to change speeds
without stopping and moving belts..

I was thinking about this last night... I'd just finished a box and lid and was
turning a knob for it... about 3/4' diameter... and thought "why am I not using
the mini?"
The bottom line was that there was no REASON to... they have identical Talon
chucks and i'd be using the same tools on either lathe, so why bother changing
lathes? YMWV


Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

I love my PM 3520A. I turn bowls up to 18 inch in diameter, and tops 1
inch in diameter. I have a problem when doing a demo on a smaller
lathe, they don't have the balls to turn things at the pace that I am
used to. Size does matter depending on what you want to do. The larger
lathes are more production models, and intended for use and abuse. One
important thing to look for is variable speed. It is much better than
the step pulleys, and the Reeves drives. Once you try it, you can't
live without it. Do you have 220 power for a bigger lathe. The mid
sized lathes are nice also (Jet, Delta, Nova) and most run on 110.
Also, if you buy a $1,000 lathe, you will spend twice that on
accessories. You may not have to replace some of the basic tools that
you have, but you will find that there are a lot more tools that you
just can't live without.
robo hippy

I have a small Ryobi lathe. My father bought it, never used, and I ended
up with it. You all know this part of the story... "out in my shop one
day I decided to play... two days later I started getting the shakes and
really needed to turn something..."

Anyway, there are several things I don't like about this lathe, and am
considering buying a new one. I would love to buy a larger one that would
allow me to turn larger items, but I do still like to turn smalll things
(pens, mini-bowls, etc.) So here is my question. Can a full-size lathe
turn the small stuff just as well? Or is the larger lathe "awkward" when
turning small things?

Thanks for you help!

dw
[/color][/quote]

My advice is buy as big as possible because what ever size you buy, you still want to turn a bowl bigger than your lathe can handle.
If moneys tight try hinting to the other half that she drives a smaller/cheaper car :g
Mark

aaah, I don't know about that - I have a Stubby 1000 - don't know if
that qualifies as a "big" lathe, though I can turn over 40 inches
between centers and several hundred pounds - but I do find it much
easier to use my Nova Comet (a mini) for pens - why? well the tool
rest on the stubby is longer than the length of a pen so I can't get
it close to the blank, and I'd have to move the belt to get the RPM up
into the high range - so it's much easier for me, at least, to use the
little lathe for pens and tiny things that are done between centers.
If not working between centers, then it doesn't much matter and I tend
to use the Stubby



On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:23:48 GMT, "Michael Latcha"
wrote:

Because of the extra mass, weight, stiffness - and just simply having elbow
room to move yourself around and get comfortable - it is often easier to
turn small things on a big lathe than it is on a small lathe.

In fact, it's easier to turn anything on a big lathe than on a small one.

Then why ever get a small one? Space (duh) and budget limitations,
sometimes portability. And because turning on a small lathe is way better
than not turning at all.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI


Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:33:58 -0800, "William B Noble (don't reply to this
address)" wrote:

aaah, I don't know about that - I have a Stubby 1000 - don't know if
that qualifies as a "big" lathe, though I can turn over 40 inches
between centers and several hundred pounds - but I do find it much
easier to use my Nova Comet (a mini) for pens - why? well the tool
rest on the stubby is longer than the length of a pen so I can't get
it close to the blank, and I'd have to move the belt to get the RPM up
into the high range - so it's much easier for me, at least, to use the
little lathe for pens and tiny things that are done between centers.
If not working between centers, then it doesn't much matter and I tend
to use the Stubby


Make a set of tool rests for that stubby, Bill... if anyone can do it, YOU
can...
(yeah, I bought a 4" and 8" for the 1442, but I'm welding challenged)



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:04:07 GMT, "dw" wrote:

Hello to all,

I have a small Ryobi lathe. My father bought it, never used, and I ended
up
with it. You all know this part of the story... "out in my shop one day I
decided to play... two days later I started getting the shakes and really
needed to turn something..."

Anyway, there are several things I don't like about this lathe, and am
considering buying a new one. I would love to buy a larger one that would
allow me to turn larger items, but I do still like to turn smalll things
(pens, mini-bowls, etc.) So here is my question. Can a full-size lathe
turn the small stuff just as well? Or is the larger lathe "awkward" when
turning small things?

Thanks for you help!

dw

When my "less than a year old" Jet mini died and went in on warranty for a
new
motor, I bought a Jet 1442 while I was at the dealers...

I really expected to keep using the mini (when I got it back) for small
stuff
and the 1442 for bowls over 10" diameter...
I've had the 1442 since June 05 and the only thing the mini gets turned on
for
is when my kid uses it or I throw the buffing system on it... the larger
(to me)
lathe is more comfortable, has more room to lay chisels and stuff on, and
just
generally easier to use because of the power and the ability to change
speeds
without stopping and moving belts..

I was thinking about this last night... I'd just finished a box and lid
and was
turning a knob for it... about 3/4' diameter... and thought "why am I not
using
the mini?"
The bottom line was that there was no REASON to... they have identical
Talon
chucks and i'd be using the same tools on either lathe, so why bother
changing
lathes? YMWV


Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm


Thank you ALL for your posts. It was exactly as I feared... There are all
kind of reasons to "go big." As far as budget and such goes, anything's
possible with time. As I said, I'm ABSOLUTLY brand new to this stuff - so
far I've turned several very small things (pen, key chain, a couple of small
bowls) just to play around with it. But it definitely is something I enjoy.

The next question really is "what book(s) do you recommend for learning the
basics, the right way? I guess really the next question is "Does this group
have an FAQ that I can read... since it probably includes the answer to the
book(s) question..."


Thank you all!

dw

Hey, Bill, how about buying a 6" tool rest for the Stubby? I now have
some in stock.

Bill

William B Noble (don't reply to this address) wrote:
aaah, I don't know about that - I have a Stubby 1000 - don't know if
that qualifies as a "big" lathe, though I can turn over 40 inches
between centers and several hundred pounds - but I do find it much
easier to use my Nova Comet (a mini) for pens - why? well the tool
rest on the stubby is longer than the length of a pen so I can't get
it close to the blank, and I'd have to move the belt to get the RPM up
into the high range - so it's much easier for me, at least, to use the
little lathe for pens and tiny things that are done between centers.
If not working between centers, then it doesn't much matter and I tend
to use the Stubby



On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:23:48 GMT, "Michael Latcha"
wrote:


Because of the extra mass, weight, stiffness - and just simply having elbow
room to move yourself around and get comfortable - it is often easier to
turn small things on a big lathe than it is on a small lathe.

In fact, it's easier to turn anything on a big lathe than on a small one.

Then why ever get a small one? Space (duh) and budget limitations,
sometimes portability. And because turning on a small lathe is way better
than not turning at all.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI



Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

I personally think that books are the wrong way to go for learning the
basics. You will pick up some bad habits and when you finally go to a
real teacher, (s)he will wish that you were a virgin with no habits at all.

Find a club. Watch some of the experienced people turn. Pick out the
best of them and ask for some shop time with them. Our club has a
mentoring program and the instruction is free. You get hands on, one on
one training and the price is right.

I do insist, though, that the student pays for a fast-food lunch. When
I teach, BTW, they get to turn on my Stubby S750.

Bill

dw wrote:
"mac davis" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:04:07 GMT, "dw" wrote:


Hello to all,

I have a small Ryobi lathe. My father bought it, never used, and I ended
up
with it. You all know this part of the story... "out in my shop one day I
decided to play... two days later I started getting the shakes and really
needed to turn something..."

Anyway, there are several things I don't like about this lathe, and am
considering buying a new one. I would love to buy a larger one that would
allow me to turn larger items, but I do still like to turn smalll things
(pens, mini-bowls, etc.) So here is my question. Can a full-size lathe
turn the small stuff just as well? Or is the larger lathe "awkward" when
turning small things?

Thanks for you help!

dw


When my "less than a year old" Jet mini died and went in on warranty for a
new
motor, I bought a Jet 1442 while I was at the dealers...

I really expected to keep using the mini (when I got it back) for small
stuff
and the 1442 for bowls over 10" diameter...
I've had the 1442 since June 05 and the only thing the mini gets turned on
for
is when my kid uses it or I throw the buffing system on it... the larger
(to me)
lathe is more comfortable, has more room to lay chisels and stuff on, and
just
generally easier to use because of the power and the ability to change
speeds
without stopping and moving belts..

I was thinking about this last night... I'd just finished a box and lid
and was
turning a knob for it... about 3/4' diameter... and thought "why am I not
using
the mini?"
The bottom line was that there was no REASON to... they have identical
Talon
chucks and i'd be using the same tools on either lathe, so why bother
changing
lathes? YMWV


Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm



Thank you ALL for your posts. It was exactly as I feared... There are all
kind of reasons to "go big." As far as budget and such goes, anything's
possible with time. As I said, I'm ABSOLUTLY brand new to this stuff - so
far I've turned several very small things (pen, key chain, a couple of small
bowls) just to play around with it. But it definitely is something I enjoy.

The next question really is "what book(s) do you recommend for learning the
basics, the right way? I guess really the next question is "Does this group
have an FAQ that I can read... since it probably includes the answer to the
book(s) question..."


Thank you all!

dw

"dw" wrote in message
news:uecCf.726971$x96.320232@attbi_s72...
snip

Thank you ALL for your posts. It was exactly as I feared... There are all
kind of reasons to "go big." As far as budget and such goes, anything's
possible with time. As I said, I'm ABSOLUTLY brand new to this stuff - so
far I've turned several very small things (pen, key chain, a couple of
small bowls) just to play around with it. But it definitely is something
I enjoy.

The next question really is "what book(s) do you recommend for learning
the basics, the right way? I guess really the next question is "Does this
group have an FAQ that I can read... since it probably includes the answer
to the book(s) question..."


Thank you all!

dw

Another vote to forget the book route and find a club. I was self-taught and
after a few years I went to my first club meeting. Couldn't believe how much
I learned especially since I thought I knew everything!
It is often difficult to really grasp what is being said by looking at
static pictures in a book. A video presentation is better but nothing
compares to real-life teaching.

billh

"billh" wrote in message
.. .

"dw" wrote in message
news:uecCf.726971$x96.320232@attbi_s72...
snip

Thank you ALL for your posts. It was exactly as I feared... There are
all kind of reasons to "go big." As far as budget and such goes,
anything's possible with time. As I said, I'm ABSOLUTLY brand new to
this stuff - so far I've turned several very small things (pen, key
chain, a couple of small bowls) just to play around with it. But it
definitely is something I enjoy.

The next question really is "what book(s) do you recommend for learning
the basics, the right way? I guess really the next question is "Does
this group have an FAQ that I can read... since it probably includes the
answer to the book(s) question..."


Thank you all!

dw

Another vote to forget the book route and find a club. I was self-taught
and after a few years I went to my first club meeting. Couldn't believe
how much I learned especially since I thought I knew everything!
It is often difficult to really grasp what is being said by looking at
static pictures in a book. A video presentation is better but nothing
compares to real-life teaching.

billh

I should have mentioned that after you have been taught and have more
experience you will get even more out of watching videos, and yes, even the
books are more useful then.
billh

To be more specific about my thoughts...

Most self-taught students come at the lathe with their arms and elbows
moving all over the place. For bowl turning I think that one hand
should be locked against your groin, the other at the tool rest and both
arms and elbows should be locked against your torso.

I recently saw one photo of a turning class in a high school. The
student was holding the tool several inches behind the tool rest (right,
no contact with the rest at all except for the tool) with elbows
flying. How he could have any control at all is beyond me. To make
matters worse, this was a big-bucks, private school and I'm sure his
teacher was the shop teacher.

Bill

billh wrote:
"billh" wrote in message
.. .

"dw" wrote in message
news:uecCf.726971$x96.320232@attbi_s72...
snip

Thank you ALL for your posts. It was exactly as I feared... There are
all kind of reasons to "go big." As far as budget and such goes,
anything's possible with time. As I said, I'm ABSOLUTLY brand new to
this stuff - so far I've turned several very small things (pen, key
chain, a couple of small bowls) just to play around with it. But it
definitely is something I enjoy.

The next question really is "what book(s) do you recommend for learning
the basics, the right way? I guess really the next question is "Does
this group have an FAQ that I can read... since it probably includes the
answer to the book(s) question..."


Thank you all!

dw


Another vote to forget the book route and find a club. I was self-taught
and after a few years I went to my first club meeting. Couldn't believe
how much I learned especially since I thought I knew everything!
It is often difficult to really grasp what is being said by looking at
static pictures in a book. A video presentation is better but nothing
compares to real-life teaching.

billh


I should have mentioned that after you have been taught and have more
experience you will get even more out of watching videos, and yes, even the
books are more useful then.
billh

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:59:27 GMT, Bill Rubenstein
wrote:

Hey, Bill, how about buying a 6" tool rest for the Stubby? I now have
some in stock.

Bill



two reasons for me not buying a 6 inch rest - first, I actually have
one welded from 1 inch bar stock, and second, it is still too long for
pen work, so it's actually just easier to use the Comet, and reserve
the stubby for big things (like my infamous photo of using the stubby
as a painting fixture for the steering wheel for my 36 cad)

oh, is that really *3* reasons?

bill n

by the way, my real point is a big lathe and a little lathe are
complementary - don't ditch the baby
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:41:30 GMT, "dw" wrote:

to differ with everyone else (not that such a difference should
surprise you), I like Raffan's intoduction, "turning wood with richard
raffan" - I found it helpful when starting out, and I personally like
"L'art du tuournage sur bois" by Gerard Bidou - it's a great source of
ideas once you think you are hot stuff - I haven't seen it in English
though, I'd probably get even more out if it in English, but I've
never seen anything like this in english language books. The Eyrolles
book chain in Paris has 10 or 12 feet of wood turning TEXT BOOKS !!!!!
it's just amazing.




Thank you ALL for your posts. It was exactly as I feared... There are all
kind of reasons to "go big." As far as budget and such goes, anything's
possible with time. As I said, I'm ABSOLUTLY brand new to this stuff - so
far I've turned several very small things (pen, key chain, a couple of small
bowls) just to play around with it. But it definitely is something I enjoy.

The next question really is "what book(s) do you recommend for learning the
basics, the right way? I guess really the next question is "Does this group
have an FAQ that I can read... since it probably includes the answer to the
book(s) question..."


Thank you all!

dw

Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

For bowl turning I think that one hand
should be locked against your groin

I tried that once Bill, but people tended to stare so I stopped......:-)
Besides I kept losing my train of thought.... :-)

--

Regards,
M.J. (Mike) Orr
www.island.net/~morr


"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
et...
To be more specific about my thoughts...

Most self-taught students come at the lathe with their arms and elbows
moving all over the place. For bowl turning I think that one hand should
be locked against your groin, the other at the tool rest and both arms and
elbows should be locked against your torso.

I recently saw one photo of a turning class in a high school. The student
was holding the tool several inches behind the tool rest (right, no
contact with the rest at all except for the tool) with elbows flying.
How he could have any control at all is beyond me. To make matters worse,
this was a big-bucks, private school and I'm sure his teacher was the shop
teacher.

Bill

billh wrote:
"billh" wrote in message
.. .

"dw" wrote in message
news:uecCf.726971$x96.320232@attbi_s72...
snip

Thank you ALL for your posts. It was exactly as I feared... There are
all kind of reasons to "go big." As far as budget and such goes,
anything's possible with time. As I said, I'm ABSOLUTLY brand new to
this stuff - so far I've turned several very small things (pen, key
chain, a couple of small bowls) just to play around with it. But it
definitely is something I enjoy.

The next question really is "what book(s) do you recommend for learning
the basics, the right way? I guess really the next question is "Does
this group have an FAQ that I can read... since it probably includes the
answer to the book(s) question..."


Thank you all!

dw


Another vote to forget the book route and find a club. I was self-taught
and after a few years I went to my first club meeting. Couldn't believe
how much I learned especially since I thought I knew everything!
It is often difficult to really grasp what is being said by looking at
static pictures in a book. A video presentation is better but nothing
compares to real-life teaching.

billh


I should have mentioned that after you have been taught and have more
experience you will get even more out of watching videos, and yes, even
the books are more useful then.
billh

I'd hate to be the one to clean up the tool rest :-)

Bill Rubenstein wrote:
e training and the price is right.

I do insist, though, that the student pays for a fast-food lunch. When
I teach, BTW, they get to turn on my Stubby S750.

Ok, not your groin, the place where your leg and torso meet. I'm not
talking about a Michael Jackson thing here.

Bill

M.J. wrote:
For bowl turning I think that one hand

should be locked against your groin


I tried that once Bill, but people tended to stare so I stopped......:-)
Besides I kept losing my train of thought.... :-)

Hi Bill,
Probably "groin" is a word that has different meanings in different
countries. ex: "bloody" or "knickers" in GB / USA, so "groin" may have a
different connotation for some. IIRC, "groin" has marine, architectural
and anatomical meanings. Most here knew that you weren't referring to
the jettys that prevent the Mississippi from eroding or to the vaulted
symbol of the great city of St. Louis.

Why the anatomical region where the lower extremities join the abdomen
evokes unusual interest is for someone else to explain. You didn't mean
or write "crotch", but perhaps for some "groin" might mean "crotch" and
be of unusual interest.

Anyway Bill, thanks for reminding us not to let our upper extremities
diverge too far from our shoulders (I don't recall the anatomical
region) while turning wood.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Anatomy The crease or hollow at the junction of the inner part of each
thigh with the trunk, together with the adjacent region and often including
the external genitals. The word appears to mean the same on both sides of
the 49th ll. If you decide to turn using the stance suggested, please have
someone take a picture, it would be good for a grin as long as you don't
have a catch!!

Tom


"Arch" wrote in message
...
Hi Bill,
Probably "groin" is a word that has different meanings in different
countries. ex: "bloody" or "knickers" in GB / USA, so "groin" may have a
different connotation for some. IIRC, "groin" has marine, architectural
and anatomical meanings. Most here knew that you weren't referring to
the jettys that prevent the Mississippi from eroding or to the vaulted
symbol of the great city of St. Louis.

Why the anatomical region where the lower extremities join the abdomen
evokes unusual interest is for someone else to explain. You didn't mean
or write "crotch", but perhaps for some "groin" might mean "crotch" and
be of unusual interest.

Anyway Bill, thanks for reminding us not to let our upper extremities
diverge too far from our shoulders (I don't recall the anatomical
region) while turning wood.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Thanks for the correction, Tom.
Sorry for my error, Bill.

I failed to consider Gray's dissections or Jackson's gyrations pertinent
to a group of woodturners. I just assumed Bill was referring to
Webster's definition of "groin". Tom's post explains why Bill's
suggestion might be of unusual and international interest, at least to
some woodturners.

A good example of the danger in believing everything (anything?) I post
to rcw. My advice to lead the flute, rub the bevel and lag the scraper
isn't always true and "facts often conceal the truth".


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Maybe I am a bit unusual here, but I always work with the gouge level,
or parallel to the ground, and the handle under my forearm. It seems to
work best for leverage and control, especially if I am reaching out a
bit over the tool rest. I have noticed that others seem to work with
the gouge pointing up. I don't think that there are any mechanical
advantages here for shear or scraping cuts, or for leverage. At none
that I have noticed.
robo hippy

(Arch) wrote:

Thanks for the correction, Tom.
Sorry for my error, Bill.

I failed to consider Gray's dissections or Jackson's gyrations
pertinent to a group of woodturners. I just assumed Bill was referring
to Webster's definition of "groin". Tom's post explains why Bill's
suggestion might be of unusual and international interest, at least to
some woodturners.

A good example of the danger in believing everything (anything?) I
post to rcw. My advice to lead the flute, rub the bevel and lag the
scraper isn't always true and "facts often conceal the truth".


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings



I think he meant anchor the tool somewhere aft of McBirney's Point - for
right handers.

There, that ought to be good for some googling!

a spot halfway
on the line between the front crest of your pelvis and your navel)?
....

Well, it is amazing what you can learn by following up (Googling) on
some of the posts on this forum. You are right -- that is what I meant.

Now, is Google going to turn these records over to the feds and suspect
that there are a lot of strange folks with a strange fetish?

Bill



Lobby Dosser wrote:
(Arch) wrote:


Thanks for the correction, Tom.
Sorry for my error, Bill.

I failed to consider Gray's dissections or Jackson's gyrations
pertinent to a group of woodturners. I just assumed Bill was referring
to Webster's definition of "groin". Tom's post explains why Bill's
suggestion might be of unusual and international interest, at least to
some woodturners.

A good example of the danger in believing everything (anything?) I
post to rcw. My advice to lead the flute, rub the bevel and lag the
scraper isn't always true and "facts often conceal the truth".


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




I think he meant anchor the tool somewhere aft of McBirney's Point - for
right handers.

There, that ought to be good for some googling!

Don wrote:

a spot halfway
on the line between the front crest of your pelvis and your navel)?
...


Or thereabouts.

Bill Rubenstein wrote:

Well, it is amazing what you can learn by following up (Googling) on
some of the posts on this forum. You are right -- that is what I meant.

Also amazing is some of the useless bits of information one finds rattling
around in one's head.


Now, is Google going to turn these records over to the feds and suspect
that there are a lot of strange folks with a strange fetish?

No doubt they already think that, what with GITDP and all.


Bill

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:05:51 -0800, "M.J." wrote:

For bowl turning I think that one hand
should be locked against your groin

I tried that once Bill, but people tended to stare so I stopped......:-)
Besides I kept losing my train of thought.... :-)


might work for some of the younger guys here, but I have to use a gouge.. *g*

Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On 28 Jan 2006 10:59:02 -0800, "robo hippy" wrote:

Maybe I am a bit unusual here, but I always work with the gouge level,
or parallel to the ground, and the handle under my forearm. It seems to
work best for leverage and control, especially if I am reaching out a
bit over the tool rest. I have noticed that others seem to work with
the gouge pointing up. I don't think that there are any mechanical
advantages here for shear or scraping cuts, or for leverage. At none
that I have noticed.
robo hippy

I'm really not sure WHAT angle I hold the tool at.... but I know that when i'm
doing the outside of a bowl, I try to have the tool at the same angle as the
rest, (which doesn't work when I use the round or flat stock ones), but on the
inside of the bowl I seem to end up with the chisel parallel to the lathe bed...
Of course, that could be part of my tear out problem..
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

You have touched on one of the advantages of a short-bed lathe. With a
long bed, when working inside a bowl, one can't get the handle low
because it will run into the bed. On a short-bed, you can stand on the
end of the lathe and keep the handle low because there is nothing for
you to run into. When I get very aggressive inside a bowl, I will
frequently tuck the handle of the gouge under my right arm pit (not
groin this time). I keep the handle low, though, by leaning over.
Actually I don't have to lean over that much because I'm pretty short.

Another thought on the subject -- there are several lathes where the
top surface of the tool rest is pretty wide and sloped at maybe a 50
deg. angle from horizontal. So, if you hold the handle of the gouge
down, the tool will be resting on the back edge of the top surface of
the rest rather than the front edge. The Jet and Powermatic rests share
this unfortunate design characteristic and I think that they are
unusable for that reason. They encourage bad turning and get in the way
of good turning. I think that many would profit by replacing the
original equipment rests on those machines with ones designed for wood
turning.

Bill

mac davis wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 10:59:02 -0800, "robo hippy" wrote:


Maybe I am a bit unusual here, but I always work with the gouge level,
or parallel to the ground, and the handle under my forearm. It seems to
work best for leverage and control, especially if I am reaching out a
bit over the tool rest. I have noticed that others seem to work with
the gouge pointing up. I don't think that there are any mechanical
advantages here for shear or scraping cuts, or for leverage. At none
that I have noticed.
robo hippy


I'm really not sure WHAT angle I hold the tool at.... but I know that when i'm
doing the outside of a bowl, I try to have the tool at the same angle as the
rest, (which doesn't work when I use the round or flat stock ones), but on the
inside of the bowl I seem to end up with the chisel parallel to the lathe bed...
Of course, that could be part of my tear out problem..
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
om...
You have touched on one of the advantages of a short-bed lathe. With a
long bed, when working inside a bowl, one can't get the handle low because
it will run into the bed. On a short-bed, you can stand on the end of the
lathe and keep the handle low because there is nothing for you to run
into.

Or, you could choose a tool which presented the edge properly for cutting
and took full advantage of tool rest support. That's where the forged
gouges excel, they're the same edge presentation as the wings of a bowl
gouge standing almost vertically when the handle's parallel to the bed.
Then there's the advantage gained by dropping the handle slightly slightly,
rolling into the piece and trailing the final point of cut to fair the
inside. Answer to two problems - tear-out, which is minimized by narrowing
the face of the cut (rolling back toward vertical) inside steepening curves,
and catches, which are made extremely difficult by good tool support on the
rest and bevel, which is ground at the same angle all across, along with the
natural curve of the gouge.

Another thought on the subject -- there are several lathes where the top
surface of the tool rest is pretty wide and sloped at maybe a 50 deg.
angle from horizontal. So, if you hold the handle of the gouge down, the
tool will be resting on the back edge of the top surface of the rest
rather than the front edge. The Jet and Powermatic rests share this
unfortunate design characteristic and I think that they are unusable for
that reason. They encourage bad turning and get in the way of good
turning. I think that many would profit by replacing the original
equipment rests on those machines with ones designed for wood turning.

Sadly, there appear to be nothing but cylindrical rests out there in the
replacement realm. If you know of others, chime in, I'm looking for a
smaller curved one. Resting a cylinder on a cylinder with some control is
difficult to begin with, and with a fingernail grind prone to rotation, even
worse. Of course, you can't get the fulcrum any closer than clearance plus
radius, either. When I transitioned from Ol' Blue to the 3000, I considered
modifying my grinds to suit the new rests, then realized I still had one
old - my "S" rest - to work with. Took a file to the 3000 rests, and never
looked back.

snip...



Another thought on the subject -- there are several lathes where the top
surface of the tool rest is pretty wide and sloped at maybe a 50 deg.
angle from horizontal. So, if you hold the handle of the gouge down, the
tool will be resting on the back edge of the top surface of the rest
rather than the front edge. The Jet and Powermatic rests share this
unfortunate design characteristic and I think that they are unusable for
that reason. They encourage bad turning and get in the way of good
turning. I think that many would profit by replacing the original
equipment rests on those machines with ones designed for wood turning.


Sadly, there appear to be nothing but cylindrical rests out there in the
replacement realm. If you know of others, chime in, I'm looking for a
smaller curved one. Resting a cylinder on a cylinder with some control is
difficult to begin with, and with a fingernail grind prone to rotation, even
worse. Of course, you can't get the fulcrum any closer than clearance plus
radius, either. When I transitioned from Ol' Blue to the 3000, I considered
modifying my grinds to suit the new rests, then realized I still had one
old - my "S" rest - to work with. Took a file to the 3000 rests, and never
looked back.


....snip
Both the Woodfast tool rests and the Stubby rests are properly designed,
IMHO. They both have a properly designed surface to support the tool
and both have an indentation on the back which fits your index finger.

If there was an after-market for these rests I'd be happy to consider
supplying them.

Woodfast makes both inboard and outboard 's' shaped rests which I could
import but I haven't seen one so have no idea right now what they look
like. They don't make a rest with a single curve.

Bill

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
. com...

Both the Woodfast tool rests and the Stubby rests are properly designed,
IMHO. They both have a properly designed surface to support the tool and
both have an indentation on the back which fits your index finger.


Not me. I hold the tool to the rest, not the piece. That's unnecessary.
If you remember your vector geometry, you want to keep the angle less than
45 for toolrest support anyway. Otherwise you're going to have to use your
groin.

If there was an after-market for these rests I'd be happy to consider
supplying them.

Woodfast makes both inboard and outboard 's' shaped rests which I could
import but I haven't seen one so have no idea right now what they look
like. They don't make a rest with a single curve.


The ones at Vicmarc.com appear shorter than the reach on my cast iron. I
suppose I could use my offset extension, which I do sometimes, but I prefer
not to play with a third item.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 21:09:39 GMT, Bill Rubenstein wrote:

You have touched on one of the advantages of a short-bed lathe. With a
long bed, when working inside a bowl, one can't get the handle low
because it will run into the bed. On a short-bed, you can stand on the
end of the lathe and keep the handle low because there is nothing for
you to run into. When I get very aggressive inside a bowl, I will
frequently tuck the handle of the gouge under my right arm pit (not
groin this time). I keep the handle low, though, by leaning over.
Actually I don't have to lean over that much because I'm pretty short.

Another thought on the subject -- there are several lathes where the
top surface of the tool rest is pretty wide and sloped at maybe a 50
deg. angle from horizontal. So, if you hold the handle of the gouge
down, the tool will be resting on the back edge of the top surface of
the rest rather than the front edge. The Jet and Powermatic rests share
this unfortunate design characteristic and I think that they are
unusable for that reason. They encourage bad turning and get in the way
of good turning. I think that many would profit by replacing the
original equipment rests on those machines with ones designed for wood
turning.

Bill

Right... the bed does get in the way with long handled chisels, especially bowl
gouges... love to have an outboard tool rest and turn the head stock...

What I meant, though, was the angle of the chisel when you're inside the work,
though maybe a bowl is a bad example and a box or vessel would be a better
one... kind of hard to maintain an angle when you're 4 or more inches inside the
work..
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:40:00 -0500, "George" George@least wrote:

Sadly, there appear to be nothing but cylindrical rests out there in the
replacement realm. If you know of others, chime in, I'm looking for a
smaller curved one. Resting a cylinder on a cylinder with some control is
difficult to begin with, and with a fingernail grind prone to rotation, even
worse. Of course, you can't get the fulcrum any closer than clearance plus
radius, either. When I transitioned from Ol' Blue to the 3000, I considered
modifying my grinds to suit the new rests, then realized I still had one
old - my "S" rest - to work with. Took a file to the 3000 rests, and never
looked back.

I have a few rests like these... I find the flat top better than the round, but
still prefer a little angle on them..
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/cltsj.html

Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

There is a problem with getting a good cutting angle on larger and
deeper bowls. The tool rest and the rim of the bowl are in the way when
using a swept back grind gouge. I have 2 gouges that have a profile
similar to the roughing gouge, only with the wings slightly rounded
back and not square (I don't like catches) The angle on the cutting
edge is about 85 degrees, the same as on my scrapers. This works well
for the curve near the bottom, and the bottom of the bowl because the
handle points straight out as you ride the bevel across the bottom. I
also have a 1/4 by 3/4 quarter round scraper (similar to Raffen's shear
scraper) which on edge gives a nice shear cut across the bottom of the
bowl.
robo hippy

"robo hippy" wrote in message
oups.com...
There is a problem with getting a good cutting angle on larger and
deeper bowls. The tool rest and the rim of the bowl are in the way when
using a swept back grind gouge. I have 2 gouges that have a profile
similar to the roughing gouge, only with the wings slightly rounded
back and not square (I don't like catches)

My solution to the problem, albeit somewhat clumsily photographed, as I had
to hold the tools with one hand and the camera with another, is the use of a
forged gouge. For the outside work, you may substitute a broad roughing
gouge. The tool doesn't catch because the bevel angle is ground the same
all around. It can't roll without you changing the horizontal angle of the
tool and taking a deeper cut, because the bevel angle is the same all around
the nose. No gaps or steeper fingernailed bevels means no catches.

http://georgephoto.photosite.com/FlatGougeAngles/

As you can see, even though I slipped and let the handle fall on the forged
gouge comparison, any point on the arc formed by the nose is equivalent to
another. Gives a lot of fresh edge with different handle angles, and the
work sees the same edge as that half of the bowl gouge.

Note the bevel is referenced along the cut, more or less parallel to the
shearing edge, rather than perpendicular to it. Works the same, inside and
out. Both are shown, as well as a wedge cut away to visualize the face of
the cuts both inside and out.

This was with an as-is edge, the wood is dry birch, which has a tendency to
tear, and yet the surface is easily 150 or better.

Nicest thing about it, for folks who love their elbows - and groins - is the
gouge is firmly supported throughout on the rest, giving a nice close
fulcrum for nearly effortless shaving, and the gouge handle never drops more
than two-three inches from the horizontal, depending on where you're cutting
on the arc of the gouge.