How would you define a hollow turned form?
--
Bob
London, Ontario,
Canada.

Bob Hewson wrote:
How would you define a hollow turned form?

The opening through which the inside of the blank is evacuated is small
as compared to the diameter of the piece.

That is a start, at least, I think.

Leo?

Arch?

Bill

Bill Rubenstein wrote:
Bob Hewson wrote:

How would you define a hollow turned form?


The opening through which the inside of the blank is evacuated is small
as compared to the diameter of the piece.

That is a start, at least, I think.

Leo?

Arch?

Bill

Bob, I'll offer:
"If it cannot be made with a conventional straight gouge or scraper".
Certainly flawed as descriptions go, but I think it covers most cases.
Good luck getting a concensus. ;o)

David
www.wademade.net

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote: The opening through which the inside of the blank
is evacuated is small as compared to the diameter of the piece.(clip)
Leo?

Arch?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is essentially what is meant, but when you get involved in competition,
they get picky. I think my club defines it as a vessel with an opening of 1
1/2" or less, but I don't know whether there is a universal standard. If I
had to write a definition, it would be a certain percent of the maximum
diameter.

Years back, Lyn Mangiameli and I had running arguments about the validity of
judging a vessel by how small the opening is. I'd rather not get that going
again.

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote: The opening through which the inside of the blank
is evacuated is small as compared to the diameter of the piece.(clip)

Leo?

Arch?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is essentially what is meant, but when you get involved in competition,
they get picky. I think my club defines it as a vessel with an opening of 1
1/2" or less, but I don't know whether there is a universal standard. If I
had to write a definition, it would be a certain percent of the maximum
diameter.

Years back, Lyn Mangiameli and I had running arguments about the validity of
judging a vessel by how small the opening is. I'd rather not get that going
again.


The 1 1/2" or less test fails if the blank is a 1 3/4" cylinder with a 1
1/2 opening -- that could be a box with a 1/8" wall thickness. I think
that your 'percent' would be necessary.

Bill

How would you define a hollow turned form?

I don't get out much with other turners even though I essentially turn for
a living, so I don't know what others think, but I have had to develop
some working definitions of my own for when I am communicating with
galleries. First, a hollow form is hollowed as opposed to a weed pot
which is simply drilled. Then:
if the hole looks quite small in relation to the diameter, it is a
hollow form
if the hole is nearly as big as the maximum diameter, then it is a bowl
if it is somewhere in between, I call it a vessel
I guess technically they are all vessels, but I needed a term for
something not an open bowl and not a hollow form, so I reserve that term
for the in-between category. If somebody has a good alternative I'd be
pleased to hear about it.

-mike paulson, fort collins, co

"Mike Paulson" wrote: (clip) if it is somewhere in between, I call it a
vessel I guess technically they are all vessels, but I needed a term for
something not an open bowl and not a hollow form, so I reserve that term
for the in-between category. If somebody has a good alternative I'd be
pleased to hear about it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I've always heard that "in between" category called a "closed form."

Hi Bob

I would classify a turning, a hollow turning if you would need hollow
turning tools to make it, like a swan neck tool etc., the size of the
opening does not fit all cases I would think, say for instance a turning
that is 15" wide and 6 or 7" tall with a 4" opening, that would qualify
as a hollow turning in my opinion.
If for a competition, than sizes can be set arbitrarily, however in real
life there will be turnings that some might not think a hollow form wile
others would, it depends a bit on ones perspective I think.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Bob Hewson wrote:
How would you define a hollow turned form?

"Mike Paulson" wrote in message
...
How would you define a hollow turned form?

if the hole is nearly as big as the maximum diameter, then it is a bowl
if it is somewhere in between, I call it a vessel
I guess technically they are all vessels, but I needed a term for
something not an open bowl and not a hollow form, so I reserve that term
for the in-between category. If somebody has a good alternative I'd be
pleased to hear about it.


Edith.

It's a good name, and by the responses, as descriptive of the actual item as
any.

"Bob Hewson" wrote in message
...

How would you define a hollow turned form?
--

Air surrounded by hype. It's the politician of turnings.

Handsome here is not as does, because you can't just show a picture of it
without including all that extra information to show the virtuosity and
dedication of the turner.

Christmas ornaments are hollow, but it's a useful thing with them to keep
the limb from bending, so it can't count.

Essentially, most things we turn as faceplates are "hollow" forms or
vessels, be they bowls, vases, boxes or whatever. I think the term "hollow
form" as we use it to determine a "type" of form indicates a vessel with an
obviously small diameter opening compared to the diameter of the piece. I
have seen many of them turned inside and out using only a gouge and I have
used hollowing tools to undercut a bowl lip so the type of tools does not
determine the type of the piece. One of the commonly accepted variables
seems to be that vases have the grain going perpendicular to the base and
hollow forms have the grain parallel. So we have a vessel with an opening
obviously smaller than the diameter of the piece, most of the interior
removed, and the grain parallel to the base.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"If it cannot be made with a conventional straight gouge or scraper".


And what about those 'hollow forms' that are made in two pieces, top and
bottom, then glued together?

--
Derek Andrews

NEW!!
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

I started doing hollow forms by turning what my wife called my beads. I
would take a small square chunk and try to turn it round with as small
an opening as I could. It was lots of fun and challenging. Later when
I started doing shapes that could better be described as vases my wife
admitted that she did not care for the vessels with small openings.

More important is the total shape of the piece. Once the shape is done
then the size of the opening needs to be appropriate for the shape.
After all if your customer does not like the design of the product you
have failed and you might as well put it in the fire place this winter.

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote: The opening through which the inside of the blank
is evacuated is small as compared to the diameter of the piece.(clip)

Leo?

Arch?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is essentially what is meant, but when you get involved in competition,
they get picky. I think my club defines it as a vessel with an opening of 1
1/2" or less, but I don't know whether there is a universal standard. If I
had to write a definition, it would be a certain percent of the maximum
diameter.

Years back, Lyn Mangiameli and I had running arguments about the validity of
judging a vessel by how small the opening is. I'd rather not get that going
again.

"Bob asked us to define a "hollow turned form", but his subject is
"Hollow form turning". I'm unsure if he meant a turned form that is
hollow or a form that was hollowed by turning. I _am sure that it is of
little importance except for dispute.

I recognize a bowl or a hollow form when I see it. So do you and you and
you...not always concurring. Same with other ambiguous turning terms
like "bowl gouge" and "spindle gouge" not to mention "optimum sharp" and
'safe speed".

Baseball analogies (stepping up to the plate, etc.) are the current rage
so I suggest that hollow forms are like balls and strikes: The strike
zone is clearly defined in the rules, but each umpire has his own. Of
course, we have no rules.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Well, for my 2 cents worth, I had it defined as open and closed forms.
Open is when the opening is bigger than the inside of the vessel.
Closed is when the opening is smaller that the inside. A closed form
can be done with standard turning tools, but you can't under cut the
rim.
robo hippy

"Derek Andrews" wrote in message
...
"If it cannot be made with a conventional straight gouge or scraper".


And what about those 'hollow forms' that are made in two pieces, top and
bottom, then glued together?

--
Derek Andrews
=======================
Those are hollow cheater forms! (:-)

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

"Mike Paulson" wrote in message
...
How would you define a hollow turned form?

I don't get out much with other turners even though I essentially turn for
a living, so I don't know what others think, ......... SNIP
======================
Mike,
I thought you moutaineers came down to civilization once a year. GRIN

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

I would not classify two bowls glued together as a "hollow form". I
think of them more as an attempt at salvaging a matching pair of bowls
after accidentally going through the bottom of one.

(Just my sarcastic bent of the day, recuperating from a wisdom tooth
extraction two hours ago...)
David

Derek Andrews wrote:
"If it cannot be made with a conventional straight gouge or scraper".



And what about those 'hollow forms' that are made in two pieces, top and
bottom, then glued together?

"David Wade" wrote: (clip) salvaging a matching pair of bowls after
accidentally going through the bottom of one. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I guess I am not alone--the bowl is ruined, but too nice to throw away. I
don't usually turn bowl in matching pairs, but I am going down to my
shop--strike that--*studio*, and see whether any of these beautiful failures
can be salvaged by marrying them to something I turn now. Thanks for the
idea. Can we keep this quiet? G

Ken Moon wrote:

Mike,
I thought you moutaineers came down to civilization once a year. GRIN


I dunno, "civilization" doesn't seem as civil as I might like it these
days. At least we turners keep smiling when we disagree.

-mike

"George" George@least wrote in :


"Mike Paulson" wrote in message
...
How would you define a hollow turned form?

if the hole is nearly as big as the maximum diameter, then it is a
bowl if it is somewhere in between, I call it a vessel
I guess technically they are all vessels, but I needed a term for
something not an open bowl and not a hollow form, so I reserve that
term for the in-between category. If somebody has a good alternative
I'd be pleased to hear about it.


Edith.

It's a good name, and by the responses, as descriptive of the actual
item as any.



Love you man. I was thinking the same way, but not Edith; more like Ruth.
Hank

"Mike Paulson" wrote in message
...
Ken Moon wrote:

Mike,
I thought you moutaineers came down to civilization once a year. GRIN


I dunno, "civilization" doesn't seem as civil as I might like it these
days. At least we turners keep smiling when we disagree.

-mike
=================
At least when you do "come down to town", you don't have to put up with all
that traffic mess around Denver. Totally un civilized!

Ken

Bill Rubenstein wrote:
Bob Hewson wrote:
How would you define a hollow turned form?

The opening through which the inside of the blank is evacuated is small
as compared to the diameter of the piece.

That's what is usually referred to as a closed form I believe. A hollow
form is one that has a very tiny hole - say 1/4" or less. At least
that's always been my understanding. These sorts of definations are by
nature pretty general though, so if someone says they have a vessel with
a half inch hole I won't lose any sleep in calling it a hollow form...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska

Ken Moon wrote:
"Derek Andrews" wrote in message
...
"If it cannot be made with a conventional straight gouge or scraper".

And what about those 'hollow forms' that are made in two pieces, top and
bottom, then glued together?

--
Derek Andrews
=======================
Those are hollow cheater forms! (:-)

I don't know that I'd call them cheater forms. John Jordan perfected
the bottle form and his bottles were all made in two pieces and the glue
joint hidden by carving and such. Maybe that's cheating to some, but it
doesn't seem to have affected the price any! g

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska

At least when you do "come down to town", you don't have to put up with
all that traffic mess around Denver. Totally un civilized!

I used to live in Denver and was comfortable driving around there. Now if
I ever find myself in Denver, the traffic scares me. I don't know if it
has gotten worse or if I have lost my city reflexes, but I don't like it.
I miss the plentiful wood supply, though.

-mike


In article et,
Ken Moon wrote:

"Mike Paulson" wrote in message
...
Ken Moon wrote:

Mike,
I thought you moutaineers came down to civilization once a year. GRIN


I dunno, "civilization" doesn't seem as civil as I might like it these
days. At least we turners keep smiling when we disagree.

-mike
=================
At least when you do "come down to town", you don't have to put up with all
that traffic mess around Denver. Totally un civilized!

Ken