Sorry to start another "Which combi" thread but my choices appear to be
limited by the width of the casing. At 400mm it seems to boil (sorry) down
to the Vokera Compact 24, Ariston Microcombi 23, or Ariston Microgenus 23.
My current boiler is a similar spec to these, and is quite adequate, so I
won't be considering a higher output. Much as I'd like a condenser, the
budget won't quite run to it and I'm slightly put off by the fact that our
biggest local trade outlet (6 permanent counter staff) doesn't stock a
single condensing boiler.
Did I read somewhere that Ariston have a 2 year guarantee? Any other reasons
to go for one or the other?
Thanks in advance.

stuart noble wrote:

Sorry to start another "Which combi" thread but my choices appear to be
limited by the width of the casing. At 400mm it seems to boil (sorry) down

Can`t comment on the boilers you mention since I have no experiance of
either. However I can add to your confusion ;-) I also had the same
width limitation when replacing my boiler recently, and found the Ideal
Isar range are also less than 400mm wide. The 24kW condensing model
would cost in the order of 600 to 700 quid. A google search of this
group might also help since I seem to recal others have posted details
of narrow boilers.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

Sorry to start another "Which combi" thread but my choices appear to be
limited by the width of the casing. At 400mm it seems to boil (sorry) down
to the Vokera Compact 24, Ariston Microcombi 23, or Ariston Microgenus 23.
My current boiler is a similar spec to these, and is quite adequate, so I
won't be considering a higher output. Much as I'd like a condenser, the
budget won't quite run to it and I'm slightly put off by the fact that our
biggest local trade outlet (6 permanent counter staff) doesn't stock a
single condensing boiler.

Does Fred Dibnah shop there?

Did I read somewhere that Ariston have a
2 year guarantee? Any other reasons
to go for one or the other?
Thanks in advance.

I have a Microgenus, the more powerful model. So far it is fine after 20
months. A bit noisy, but it is in a solid cupboard in the bathroom so noise
is not an issue. The Microgenus is well specced, it even comes with a
built-in filling loop. It has a reduced gas rate for CH to reduce cycling
and a built-in two minute anti-cycle function. Run a Honeywell CM67
stat/programmer (or equiv) which also has an anti-cycle function, they work
well. It has a two year guarantee and a 5 year guarantee on the plate heat
exchanger. It is easy to fit. I was talking to the Aniston service agents,
their service guys rate the Microgenus and say it is quite reliable. Parts
are easy to replace

Look at the Worcester-Bosch Junior combi. That has a v small casing too and
v simple inside with no 3-way valve. I would probably go for the Junior if
buying today. No matter what combi you fit, fit a phosphor de-scaler to the
cold feed and replace the cartridge once a year. You should do this on any
water system.

"IMM" wrote in message ...
"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

Sorry to start another "Which combi" thread but my choices appear to be
limited by the width of the casing. At 400mm it seems to boil (sorry) down
to the Vokera Compact 24, Ariston Microcombi 23, or Ariston Microgenus 23.
My current boiler is a similar spec to these, and is quite adequate, so I
won't be considering a higher output. Much as I'd like a condenser, the
budget won't quite run to it and I'm slightly put off by the fact that our
biggest local trade outlet (6 permanent counter staff) doesn't stock a
single condensing boiler.

Does Fred Dibnah shop there?

Did I read somewhere that Ariston have a
2 year guarantee? Any other reasons
to go for one or the other?
Thanks in advance.

I have a Microgenus,

Going on previous threads shouldn't that be microgenera ( genera the
plural of the noun genus)

Have i got this in before Andy Hall? :-D

the more powerful model. So far it is fine after 20
months. A bit noisy, but it is in a solid cupboard in the bathroom so noise
is not an issue. The Microgenus is well specced, it even comes with a
built-in filling loop. It has a reduced gas rate for CH to reduce cycling
and a built-in two minute anti-cycle function. Run a Honeywell CM67
stat/programmer (or equiv) which also has an anti-cycle function, they work
well. It has a two year guarantee and a 5 year guarantee on the plate heat
exchanger. It is easy to fit. I was talking to the Aniston service agents,
their service guys rate the Microgenus and say it is quite reliable. Parts
are easy to replace

Look at the Worcester-Bosch Junior combi. That has a v small casing too and
v simple inside with no 3-way valve. I would probably go for the Junior if
buying today. No matter what combi you fit, fit a phosphor de-scaler to the
cold feed and replace the cartridge once a year. You should do this on any
water system.

"steve" wrote in message
om...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

Sorry to start another "Which combi" thread but my choices appear to
be
limited by the width of the casing. At 400mm it seems to boil (sorry)
down
to the Vokera Compact 24, Ariston Microcombi 23, or Ariston Microgenus
23.
My current boiler is a similar spec to these, and is quite adequate,
so I
won't be considering a higher output. Much as I'd like a condenser,
the
budget won't quite run to it and I'm slightly put off by the fact that
our
biggest local trade outlet (6 permanent counter staff) doesn't stock a
single condensing boiler.

Does Fred Dibnah shop there?

Did I read somewhere that Ariston have a
2 year guarantee? Any other reasons
to go for one or the other?
Thanks in advance.

I have a Microgenus,

Going on previous threads shouldn't that be microgenera ( genera the
plural of the noun genus)

Have i got this in before Andy Hall? :-D

You are witty, so witty.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:39:05 +0100, stuart noble wrote:

Sorry to start another "Which combi" thread but my choices appear to be
limited by the width of the casing. At 400mm it seems to boil (sorry) down
to the Vokera Compact 24, Ariston Microcombi 23, or Ariston Microgenus 23.
My current boiler is a similar spec to these, and is quite adequate, so I
won't be considering a higher output. Much as I'd like a condenser, the
budget won't quite run to it and I'm slightly put off by the fact that our
biggest local trade outlet (6 permanent counter staff) doesn't stock a
single condensing boiler.
Did I read somewhere that Ariston have a 2 year guarantee? Any other reasons
to go for one or the other?
Thanks in advance.

I have worked on both boilers and would say the Vokera seems to be the
better contructed. The both come from South of the Alps.
I have not installed either unit so can't really comment further.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

John Rumm wrote in message ...
Can`t comment on the boilers you mention since I have no experiance of
either. However I can add to your confusion ;-) I also had the same
width limitation when replacing my boiler recently, and found the Ideal
Isar range are also less than 400mm wide. The 24kW condensing model
would cost in the order of 600 to 700 quid. A google search of this
group might also help since I seem to recal others have posted details
of narrow boilers.
Thanks, John. I'll take a look.

IMM wrote in message ...
I have a Microgenus, the more powerful model. So far it is fine after 20
months. A bit noisy, but it is in a solid cupboard in the bathroom so
noise
is not an issue.
So do you think it's noisy *because* it's in a cupboard? Noise I don't need
as I'm often sitting next to it.
Look at the Worcester-Bosch Junior combi. That has a v small casing too and
v simple inside with no 3-way valve. I would probably go for the Junior if
buying today
Better than the cdi range then?

Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
I have worked on both boilers and would say the Vokera seems to be the
better contructed. The both come from South of the Alps.
I have not installed either unit so can't really comment further.
Thanks, Ed. How does £350 inc vat fitting charge sound for the South East?
Straightforward replacement with 22mm gas already in place and using the
same flue hole.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:48:37 +0100, stuart noble wrote:


Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
I have worked on both boilers and would say the Vokera seems to be the
better contructed. The both come from South of the Alps.
I have not installed either unit so can't really comment further.
Thanks, Ed. How does £350 inc vat fitting charge sound for the South East?
Straightforward replacement with 22mm gas already in place and using the
same flue hole.

That's a fair price if the guy flushes the system out as per instructions.
Assuming there is no further work (TRVs, better controls?) then 2 days is
reasonable allowance, including filling in the 'log book'.

I'd download the instructions (they're probably online) and read them up
first as then you'll know what needs to be done.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
That's a fair price if the guy flushes the system out as per instructions.
Hm. A couple of replacements I know of were done without the flushing
("extra £400 guv"). What does it consist of exactly? Is it just running
mains pressure water round the system, or something more complicated?

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:52:17 +0100, stuart noble wrote:


Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
That's a fair price if the guy flushes the system out as per instructions.
Hm. A couple of replacements I know of were done without the flushing
("extra £400 guv"). What does it consist of exactly? Is it just running
mains pressure water round the system, or something more complicated?

You don't really need to do anything other than organize for water to come
in at one end and the dirty water to out at the other.
I have yet to be convinced of the use of pumps and other gadgets.

Most boiler instructions will ask for existing circuits to be flushed out
at least once.

At the very least the installer should sign to say he has flushed the
system etc. in the log book because the warranty might depend on it.

A boiler could be exchanged safely and working OK without folling all the
instructions in a day in which case £350 is a bit steep, or maybe I'm too
'reasonable'.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.+

The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote in message ...
I have a Microgenus, the more powerful model. So far it is fine after 20
months. A bit noisy, but it is in a solid cupboard in the bathroom so
noise
is not an issue.
So do you think it's noisy *because* it's in a cupboard? Noise I don't
need
as I'm often sitting next to it.
Look at the Worcester-Bosch Junior combi. That has a v small casing too
and
v simple inside with no 3-way valve. I would probably go for the Junior
if
buying today
Better than the cdi range then?

I think so. A brand new design, until next year when all will have to be
condensing boilers.

Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:52:17 +0100, stuart noble wrote:


Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
That's a fair price if the guy flushes the system out as per
instructions.
Hm. A couple of replacements I know of were done without the flushing
("extra £400 guv"). What does it consist of exactly? Is it just running
mains pressure water round the system, or something more complicated?

You don't really need to do anything other than organize for water to come
in at one end and the dirty water to out at the other.
I have yet to be convinced of the use of pumps and other gadgets.

Most boiler instructions will ask for existing circuits to be flushed out
at least once.

At the very least the installer should sign to say he has flushed the
system etc. in the log book because the warranty might depend on it.

A boiler could be exchanged safely and working OK without folling all the
instructions in a day in which case £350 is a bit steep, or maybe I'm too
'reasonable'.
Thanks, Ed.
Which part of the country are you in?

IMM wrote in message ...

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote in message ...
I have a Microgenus, the more powerful model. So far it is fine after 20
months. A bit noisy, but it is in a solid cupboard in the bathroom so
noise
is not an issue.
So do you think it's noisy *because* it's in a cupboard? Noise I don't
need
as I'm often sitting next to it.
Look at the Worcester-Bosch Junior combi. That has a v small casing too
and
v simple inside with no 3-way valve. I would probably go for the Junior
if
buying today
Better than the cdi range then?

I think so. A brand new design, until next year when all will have to be
condensing boilers.
Cheers. I'll add this to my 400mm wide list

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:31:02 +0100, stuart noble wrote:


Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:52:17 +0100, stuart noble wrote:


Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
That's a fair price if the guy flushes the system out as per
instructions.
Hm. A couple of replacements I know of were done without the flushing
("extra £400 guv"). What does it consist of exactly? Is it just running
mains pressure water round the system, or something more complicated?

You don't really need to do anything other than organize for water to come
in at one end and the dirty water to out at the other.
I have yet to be convinced of the use of pumps and other gadgets.

Most boiler instructions will ask for existing circuits to be flushed out
at least once.

At the very least the installer should sign to say he has flushed the
system etc. in the log book because the warranty might depend on it.

A boiler could be exchanged safely and working OK without folling all the
instructions in a day in which case £350 is a bit steep, or maybe I'm too
'reasonable'.
Thanks, Ed.
Which part of the country are you in?

North London.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
Which part of the country are you in?

North London.

My God! I didn't think there were any "reasonable" Corgis up there.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:26:43 +0100, stuart noble wrote:


Ed Sirett wrote in message ...
Which part of the country are you in?

North London.

My God! I didn't think there were any "reasonable" Corgis up there.

I really need to have someone show me how you go about (over) charging.
I tend to be guided by what a job costs me to do rather than how much
someone is prepared to pay for it.
If I ask myself how much _I_ would be prepared to pay it comes out a lot
cheaper than what I charge!


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote in message ...
I have a Microgenus, the more powerful model. So far it is fine after
20
months. A bit noisy, but it is in a solid cupboard in the bathroom so
noise
is not an issue.
So do you think it's noisy *because* it's in a cupboard? Noise I don't
need
as I'm often sitting next to it.
Look at the Worcester-Bosch Junior combi. That has a v small casing too
and
v simple inside with no 3-way valve. I would probably go for the Junior
if
buying today
Better than the cdi range then?

I think so. A brand new design, until next year when all will have to be
condensing boilers.

Not so

Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B rated).

Learnt that yesterday at a Corgi seminar.. (I previously thought as you did)

Regards





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"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Sorry to start another "Which combi" thread but my choices appear to be
limited by the width of the casing. At 400mm it seems to boil (sorry) down
to the Vokera Compact 24, Ariston Microcombi 23, or Ariston Microgenus 23.
My current boiler is a similar spec to these, and is quite adequate, so I
won't be considering a higher output. Much as I'd like a condenser, the
budget won't quite run to it and I'm slightly put off by the fact that our
biggest local trade outlet (6 permanent counter staff) doesn't stock a
single condensing boiler.
Did I read somewhere that Ariston have a 2 year guarantee? Any other
reasons
to go for one or the other?
Thanks in advance.


I personally wouldn't fit a Vokera - ever (or a Potterton for that matter)

I have had too many customers having difficulties with them - I ripped one
out at the beginning of this week and fitted a glowworm the guy was so fed
up with it.



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"Colin eclipse 2" wrote in message
...

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Sorry to start another "Which combi" thread but my choices appear to be
limited by the width of the casing. At 400mm it seems to boil (sorry)
down
to the Vokera Compact 24, Ariston Microcombi 23, or Ariston Microgenus
23.
My current boiler is a similar spec to these, and is quite adequate, so
I
won't be considering a higher output. Much as I'd like a condenser, the
budget won't quite run to it and I'm slightly put off by the fact that
our
biggest local trade outlet (6 permanent counter staff) doesn't stock a
single condensing boiler.
Did I read somewhere that Ariston have a 2 year guarantee? Any other
reasons
to go for one or the other?
Thanks in advance.


I personally wouldn't fit a Vokera - ever (or a Potterton for that matter)

I have had too many customers having difficulties with them - I ripped one
out at the beginning of this week and fitted a glowworm the guy was so fed
up with it.

I know one fitter who did work for a housing association that only fitted
Vokera condensers as they found them reliable.

"Colin eclipse 2" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote in message ...
I have a Microgenus, the more powerful model. So far it is fine after
20
months. A bit noisy, but it is in a solid cupboard in the bathroom
so
noise
is not an issue.
So do you think it's noisy *because* it's in a cupboard? Noise I don't
need
as I'm often sitting next to it.
Look at the Worcester-Bosch Junior combi. That has a v small casing
too
and
v simple inside with no 3-way valve. I would probably go for the
Junior
if
buying today
Better than the cdi range then?

I think so. A brand new design, until next year when all will have to be
condensing boilers.

Not so

Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to
nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B rated).

Learnt that yesterday at a Corgi seminar.. (I previously thought as you
did)

The minimum is 86%. Band B is from 86% to 90%. All boilers in band B are
condensing boilers. No non-condensing boiler is permitted next year.

IMM wrote in message ...
No non-condensing boiler is permitted next year.
I think maybe you should expand on that a little......

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote in message ...
No non-condensing boiler is permitted next year.
I think maybe you should expand on that a little......

It was quite clear. Minimum 86%. 86% and above are all condensers. I know
of no exclusions that permits a boiler of less than 86% to eliminate a
plume. If there is please let us know the details.

In article ,
"Colin eclipse 2" writes:

Not so

Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B rated).

When I fitted my Keston, I was quite looking forward to seeing
a nice large plume. It was not to be -- the plume it emits is
pretty much exactly the same size as my neighbour's non-condensing
and my parent's non-condensing boilers.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Colin eclipse 2" writes:

Not so

Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to
nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B rated).

When I fitted my Keston, I was quite looking forward to seeing
a nice large plume. It was not to be -- the plume it emits is
pretty much exactly the same size as my neighbour's non-condensing
and my parent's non-condensing boilers.

Get the return temperature down and then you will see it. The Keston is
good at extracting moisture into the drain.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:35:51 +0100, "IMM" strung
together this:

It was quite clear. Minimum 86%. 86% and above are all condensers. I know
of no exclusions that permits a boiler of less than 86% to eliminate a
plume. If there is please let us know the details.

86% what? Apples, butterflies, useless content of replies?
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:35:51 +0100, "IMM" strung
together this:

It was quite clear. Minimum 86%. 86% and above are all condensers. I
know
of no exclusions that permits a boiler of less than 86% to eliminate a
plume. If there is please let us know the details.

86% what? Apples, butterflies, useless content of replies?

For you toffee apples. Yes, I'm sure you would like that.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:43:10 +0100, Lurch wrote:

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:35:51 +0100, "IMM" strung
together this:

It was quite clear. Minimum 86%. 86% and above are all condensers. I know
of no exclusions that permits a boiler of less than 86% to eliminate a
plume. If there is please let us know the details.

86% what? Apples, butterflies, useless content of replies?
--

I presume the new Building Regs will (like most other BRs) only apply to
New Build.
Refurb/modification/upgrade.

Whilst (I presume) exact like for like replacement as a repair will still
be allowed? Of course there will be quite a few for who remain blissfully
unaware of the whole matter.

The net result will be the opposite of the intent of the
legislation. Where in some circumstances (probably only a small fraction
overall) a quality non-condensing boiler would have been the best
pragmatic compromise, instead they will be forced to stick with a much older
and even more inefficient design on a like for like replacement.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Colin eclipse 2" writes:

Not so

Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to
nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B rated).

When I fitted my Keston, I was quite looking forward to seeing
a nice large plume. It was not to be -- the plume it emits is
pretty much exactly the same size as my neighbour's non-condensing
and my parent's non-condensing boilers.

They showed us some slides of plumes at the Corgi event - quite spectacular,
floating around open windows even though the terminal was correctly sited.
The statement was made that most condensing flue outlets should be vertical
ie. roof line. Not to be fitted opposite boundary lines, etc. and due to
this it would not always be possible to fit a condensing option.




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Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to
nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B rated).

Learnt that yesterday at a Corgi seminar.. (I previously thought as you
did)

The minimum is 86%. Band B is from 86% to 90%. All boilers in band B are
condensing boilers. No non-condensing boiler is permitted next year.


Only relating what we were told - no specific information in the handouts.

Warm air is not affected by legislation - to improve efficiency, lagging the
ductwork was suggested.

There is still a huge market for back boilers (replacements) - no condensing
models available (we were told)


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"Colin eclipse 2" wrote in message
...

Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to
nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B rated).

Learnt that yesterday at a Corgi seminar.. (I previously thought as
you
did)

The minimum is 86%. Band B is from 86% to 90%. All boilers in band B
are
condensing boilers. No non-condensing boiler is permitted next year.


Only relating what we were told - no specific information in the handouts.

Warm air is not affected by legislation - to improve efficiency, lagging
the
ductwork was suggested.

There is still a huge market for back boilers (replacements) - no
condensing
models available (we were told)


ISTR somewhere reading that condensing boilers would be the norm "unless not
feasible due to overriding considerations" I took this to mean where no
means of disposal of condensate to a suitable discharge point could be
provided. Many back boiler sites could be adapted with a discharge point but
not all. Listed buildings would also be likely exemptions to avoid ripping
the place about unreasonably.
As with all these Prescott department edicts expect it to be a total cock-up
(IMHO)

"Colin eclipse 2" wrote in message
...

Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to
nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B rated).

Learnt that yesterday at a Corgi seminar.. (I previously thought as
you
did)

The minimum is 86%. Band B is from 86% to 90%. All boilers in band B
are
condensing boilers. No non-condensing boiler is permitted next year.


Only relating what we were told - no specific
information in the handouts.

So just tittle tattle.

Warm air is not affected by legislation - to
improve efficiency, lagging the
ductwork was suggested.

The USA has condensing forced air units. J&S have add on condensing units,
that a conventional flue runs through. There is no reason why forced air
can't follow suit for new builds, exceptions should be here for replacements
as drains cannot be installed in many situations.

There is still a huge market for back boilers
(replacements) - no condensing
models available (we were told)

True none available. and it will be near impossible to get a drain fitted to
them. Back boilers are waste of time anyway: noisy, drag in fluff, have
large vents in the room that cause drafts. A waste of time.

"John" wrote in message
...

"Colin eclipse 2" wrote in message
...

Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to
nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B
rated).

Learnt that yesterday at a Corgi seminar.. (I previously thought as
you
did)

The minimum is 86%. Band B is from 86% to 90%. All boilers in band B
are
condensing boilers. No non-condensing boiler is permitted next year.


Only relating what we were told - no specific information in the
handouts.

Warm air is not affected by legislation - to improve efficiency, lagging
the
ductwork was suggested.

There is still a huge market for back boilers (replacements) - no
condensing
models available (we were told)


ISTR somewhere reading that condensing boilers would be the norm "unless
not
feasible due to overriding considerations" I took this to mean where no
means of disposal of condensate to a suitable discharge point could be
provided. Many back boiler sites could be adapted with a discharge point
but
not all. Listed buildings would also be likely exemptions to avoid ripping
the place about unreasonably.
As with all these Prescott department edicts expect it to be a total
cock-up
(IMHO)

AN your opinion is useless.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:10:27 +0100, "Colin eclipse 2"
wrote:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Colin eclipse 2" writes:

Not so

Not every situation can be fitted with a condensing boiler due to
nuiscance
pluming (flats, etc) - so a choice will still be available (B rated).

When I fitted my Keston, I was quite looking forward to seeing
a nice large plume. It was not to be -- the plume it emits is
pretty much exactly the same size as my neighbour's non-condensing
and my parent's non-condensing boilers.

They showed us some slides of plumes at the Corgi event - quite spectacular,
floating around open windows even though the terminal was correctly sited.
The statement was made that most condensing flue outlets should be vertical
ie. roof line. Not to be fitted opposite boundary lines, etc. and due to
this it would not always be possible to fit a condensing option.



Hmmm.... It depends very much on the model and how effective the
condensate collecting arrangements are and the operating conditions.

The only time that I have noticed anything resembling a plume at all
from mine (MAN Micromat) is when I have deliberately contrived an
artificial situation of a full cylinder of cold water being heated on
a very cold day, and then it is for a very short time.
Under those conditions delivery of condensate is very rapid - a solid
trickle.
The rest of the time, there is very little difference between it and
non condensing models that neighbours have.

The sensible thing for flats that are being newly built would be to do
what is done in Germany and run the flue vertically to the roof.



..andy

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