My feeling having asked is this. Many corona viruses circulate every year.
They are all very similar but some like this one do have a very bad effect
on certain people, not sure why yet, but as has been said, you have probably
had a similar one and hence a lot of the work is done for your body, and
this might also explain those who get it and have few symptoms, but they can
still spread it for some days nonetheless.


Things like rashes are often a reaction to the foreign matter in the muscle
tissue of course.

I did have an antibody test earlier in the year but had none, but apparently
after several months these go away but the memory of how to make them is
held by parts of the immune system making it much easier to make more at
short notice.
Brian

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"Scion" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely that
it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...
your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation but
your body can do it 'easily'?

Cheers, T i m

There's always the chance that they actually caught Covid a short while
before having the jab and the 'reaction to the vaccine' was Covid
symptoms.

I don;t hear much of a difference from my friends, both seem to be hit and
miss in this respect.
Brian

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"Radio Man" wrote in message
...
On 30-03-2021 13:23, Michael Chare wrote:
On 30/03/2021 12:52, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/03/2021 12:34, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
Scion posted
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?


My wife and I both had the AZ vaccine in February, hers coming first by
a couple of weeks. She had no adverse reaction whatever. I was fine on
the day I had it, but during the following night I woke up several
times with an extremely dry mouth. In the morning I had headache,
nausea, general malaise, very like a bad hangover. Also I felt unable
to keep warm and had to go to bed. This lasted until the evening.

It was unlikely to be psychological because (a) I was not expecting any
reaction, having seen none in my wife; (b) I had had a flu jab a few
weeks before and had no reaction then (so no needle-phobia); and (c)
several of our friends have had the same reaction, some worse, some
less bad.

There's always the chance that they actually caught Covid a short
while
before having the jab and the 'reaction to the vaccine' was Covid
symptoms.

No, the vaccine side-effect symptoms were entirely different. And also
they disappeared completely by the following day, which a symptomatic
Covid infection would not have done.

Short term effects like that may not be nice, but they are a perfectly
normal response to many vaccines and do no real harm. Well worth it for
knowing that you now have at least some protection.

I am booked in for my first jab on Thursday. I hope I have no reaction,
but if I do feel ill, I've got the long weekend to recover.

You may well get a stringer reaction to a 2nd dose.

I think the Pfizer is more powerful because I've had both vaccines (I am
clinically highly vulnerable) and the Pfizer gave me more side effects
than the Astra Zeneca.

On a completely non scientific sample the side effects seem to be worse in
men, unless of course men just moan more.
Brian

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"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 15:49:50 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.


ZOE has the statistics which ISTR are about 20% notice something on the
first jab and a slightly higher proportion on the second jab.

Ah, ok, so not feeling any side effects is by far the most common.

Females
typically more prone to side effects (due to lower blood volume and a
stronger immune reponse according to my tame biochemist).

Ok (handy thing to have in such times). ;-)

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vacci...eady-had-covid

They have some quite good seminars from time to time.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

My wife was knocked sideways by it the day after.

Oh. ;-(

I just felt a bit
lethargic for a day.

I have days like that anyway so couldn't put it down to the Covid jab.
;-)

Slightly sore shoulder (as in couldn't lie on it
for one night) after 2 days

Ah. Mine was noticeable but only if you poked it (Doctor: Don't poke
it then). ;-)

and that was about it.

Ok, thanks.

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

It is the initial response to the challenge of alien proteins. The mRNA
vaccines being slightly different to the AZ one which uses

... ?

snip

The most common symptom is slightly swollen lymph nodes nearest to the
vaccination point. Most people won't even notice though.

Yeah, we tend not to notice stuff if it doesn't become apparent on
it's own or doesn't hurt, and may only find it if we actually look for
it.

Whilst I don't have a particularly high threshold of pain (unlike the
Mrs, just as well considering her medical history) I can often endure
levels of discomfort that would send others up the wall. Like, I've
actually lost a padded shoe insole on a walk, meaning it must have
worked it's way out of the std position and everything in between
coming out of my shoe and me not noticing ... or maybe noticing but
ignoring etc.

I think it was something similar that caused me to get a 'Pyogenic
granuloma' under my heel that they suggest could have been caused by
some 'trauma', like walking some miles with a stone in my shoe ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 30/03/2021 17:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 30/03/2021 15:42, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

just the same as the flue jag ....

Is that similar to a Daimler exhaust pipe?

Anorak here. Last Daimlers made by Jaguar had an exhaust either side. Jag
two together.

two jags then ? ...

--
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behind the shed and gave them a good thrashing

T i m wrote

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take
the jab I was wondering if there are any stats that cover what
sort of reaction they may have to one and why that might be?

Its mostly your immune system reacting to the vaccine
when it isnt something more serious like anaphylaxis.

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now)
and neither of us had any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had
theirs and all three suffered ranging reactions from
headaches, overall aching to nausea etc?

Same vaccine ?

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building
our own antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of
the target virus (profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus

More accurately the vaccine gets the immune system to do that.

and it's likely that it's that load on our bodies
that causes some of these reactions?

Not really. Its mostly the immune system reacting to the vaccine.

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been
given the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this
case), that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason

Nope, its not that.

(previous similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't
react ... your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies),

More that it doesn't react as aggressively.

effectively meaning that you are no better protected

That can happen with some people, but is unlikely with you two.

or you just happen to have a different physiology to
those who do seem to have more prominent symptoms,
where the same things are going on re antibody
generation but your body can do it 'easily'?

More that it doesn't react as aggressively to the
vaccine, but still does produce useful antibodys.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 12:07:01 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 30/03/2021 12:04, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

It's worth remembering - especially as reporting verges on the
hysterical
at times - the placebo effect is very, very real.


/nocebo/ effect?

I was thinking more along the scientific lines though, *actual*
information re how different people may biologically handle such a
process.

Like, what if the Mrs and I have had Covid19 asymptomatically?

That's certainly a real possibility, but wouldn't explain
why most get a very mild reaction to the vaccination,
most wouldn't have been asymptomatically infected.

If asked by any medical personnel 'have you had covid or the
symptoms' within the last 2 weeks (or whatever) we would have
replied 'no', or 'not at all' (not just the last two weeks) but could
have had covid and therefore already have the antibodies?

We both recently had routine blood tests (mine was due at the
time of the first lockdown and so didn't bother getting it done)
and mine was done prior to my jab (only the one so far) so
would they 'routinely' check for covid antibodies in that

Nope.

(none was mentioned other than 'all normal' etc)?

How many 65-70 years old have carried
Covid19 asymptomatically do we know?

Yes, that has been sampled, its not all that high.
Certainly nothing like the percentage who get
no effect with the vaccination.

Aren't they carry a higher likelihood for the worst symptoms?

Nope by definition because they are asymptomatic.

I think they are currently running tests
that may (better) answer some of this?

Only to see how many have been infected and are asymptomatic.

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

My sleep pattern has changed over the past few months and I tend to listen
to the world news in the early hours of the morning.

A few things that were reported (during interviews)....

Those who have a greater reaction to the vaccine may be those who would
have had the most serious outcome if they caught the virus.

Cant see the logic there.

The consequences of being obese: Age is the overriding factor and obesity
just pushes your risk up the age range. The risk with age doubles for
each 8 years of age. Someone who is 20 and is obese has the same risk as a
30 year old. But someone who is 60 and obese may have the same risk as
someone at 66. By the time you get to 75 obesity doesn't increase the risk
by much because you are already entering the high age risk group.

That has nothing to do with the effect of the vaccine on you.

Covid mortality in India is low and it hasn't been explained yet by the
medical profession. This seems contrary to the reported experience in the
UK.

Ditto.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:00:51 +0100, alan_m
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

My sleep pattern has changed over the past few months and I tend to
listen to the world news in the early hours of the morning.

A few things that were reported (during interviews)....

Those who have a greater reaction to the vaccine may be those who would
have had the most serious outcome if they caught the virus.

That's what I was wondering, if there was any linkage to the level of
reaction and the likelihood of catching / suffering (dying) from it.

The consequences of being obese: Age is the overriding factor and
obesity just pushes your risk up the age range. The risk with age
doubles for each 8 years of age. Someone who is 20 and is obese has the
same risk as a 30 year old. But someone who is 60 and obese may have
the same risk as someone at 66. By the time you get to 75 obesity
doesn't increase the risk by much because you are already entering the
high age risk group.

Makes sense.

Covid mortality in India is low and it hasn't been explained yet by the
medical profession. This seems contrary to the reported experience in
the UK.

It will be interesting to see what pans out in the end (if there is
'an end' etc).

Corse there will be an end, even if its still a very small
problem like with the plague which still kills a few today.

T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

By far the commonest reaction to the jabs is to bore all your friends about
it on Facebook. ;-)

Tim



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"T i m" wrote in message
...
On 30 Mar 2021 12:37:13 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 30 Mar 2021 at 11:44:02 BST, T i m wrote:

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine ...

If you're not allergic to any component of the jab, then there's no reason
for
your body to do anything except, over a small number of weeks, your immune
system notices the foreign item and starts priming your T-cells to eat it
up.

So ignoring / discarding any physiological / environmental / unlinked
effects, why do some people seem to suffer quite strong after effects?

The AstraZeneca vaccine uses a monkey virus to get the bits of the
covid virus into the cells. You will inevitably get different reactions
to the monkey virus. There are also other components in what is
injected into you and people's reaction to those varys too.

On 30/03/2021 15:13, John Rumm wrote:
On 30/03/2021 12:32, T i m wrote:

Like, what if the Mrs and I have had Covid19 asymptomatically? If
asked by any medical personnel 'have you had covid or the symptoms'
within the last 2 weeks (or whatever) we would have replied 'no', or
'not at all' (not just the last two weeks) but could have had covid
and therefore already have the antibodies?

Yup, it's possible. The amount of asymptomatic transmission was one the
big unknowns in the early days, but now we know there is lots of it.

We both recently had routine blood tests (mine was due at the time of
the first lockdown and so didn't bother getting it done) and mine was
done prior to my jab (only the one so far) so would they 'routinely'
check for covid antibodies in that (none was mentioned other than 'all
normal' etc)?

I suspect they could do a search if required, but that is not usually
part of a standard blood test.


The is no such thing as a 'standard' blood test, just as there is
no such thing as a 'standard' disease. Every set of symptoms requires
a specific type of blood test to prove /disprove what the GP is
attempting to diagnose. Antibody tests are not done routinely AFAIK
apart from when you need an operation and some blood is cross matched
in advance.

On 30/03/2021 14:01, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 12:38:30 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

On 30 Mar 2021 at 12:04:10 BST, Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

It's worth remembering - especially as reporting verges on the
hysterical at times - the placebo effect is very, very real.

I had a mildly aching arm for 24 hours, then nothing more. SWMBO had
nothing at all.

They will have been noting people's reactions during the clinical
trials.

I know, I've taken part in clinical trials for money.


people have died doing that. Rare, but it has happened.

On 30/03/2021 13:00, alan_m wrote:
On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

My sleep pattern has changed over the past few months and I tend to
listen to the world news in the early hours of the morning.

A few things that were reported (during interviews)....

Those who have a greater reaction to the vaccine may be those who would
have had the most serious outcome if they caught the virus.

The consequences of being obese: Age is the overriding factor and
obesity just pushes your risk up the age range.Â* The risk with age
doubles for each 8 years of age. Someone who is 20 and is obese has the
same risk as a 30 year old.Â* But someone who is 60 and obese may have
the same risk as someone at 66. By the time you get to 75 obesity
doesn't increase the risk by much because you are already entering the
high age risk group.

Covid mortality in India is low and it hasn't been explained yet by the
medical profession. This seems contrary to the reported experience in
the UK.


You don't see many wobblingly fat people in India.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 14:26:45 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

All of the above are possible...

Ok.

(I had my first one this morning, so I will find out which if any kick
in for me!)

Cool. A live study. ;-)

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?)

Sometimes it's an attenuated or weakened version of the actual pathogen
(or possibly a genetically engineered version with its "payload"
removed), but more commonly its just a part of it - typically some of
the surface proteins since these will be what the immune system will
"see" first following infection.

Understood.

in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

Yup - some of the symptoms we associate with "infection" like raised
temperature etc are just those of the bodies immune system "activating".

But can some people have these things going on and not
experience any noticeable reaction whilst other do then?

Yep, you get that with any virus. That's why some are
asymptomatic when infected with the covid virus.

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...

AIUI, if you already have some antibodies to the pathogen then you are
more likely to have a more noticeable reaction to the vaccine - as it
will be "recognised" and provoke a more direct response.

Ah, ok, that makes sense. A bigger gun to fight back with etc.

So for people who have already had a similar infection they may get a
more noticeable response to the first vaccine. For others who have not
been previously exposed, they may get more response to the second.

Ok (and explains why a second jab as mentioned elsewhere might create
a greater action).

With the AstraZeneca that's due to it using a monkey virus.
Your body has antibodys to the monkey virus so when you
get the second injection, your immune system fights that
monkey virus and so you get a stronger reaction than you
did with the first one when you had no antibodys to the
monkey virus.

Some vaccines use a different monkey virus
in the second injection for that reason.

your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation
but your body can do it 'easily'?

Some people seem to have less response than others anyway. Older people
tend to have less response. With some vaccines that can mean that they
are less effective in older people, however with the current covid ones,
that does not appear to be the cases. They have all been shown to
provoke very strong antibody response across all the age groups,
regardless of the reaction experienced by the recipient.

Ok thanks. Please let us know how you feel over the next 24 hours. ;-)

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 05:45:45 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
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Message-ID:

John Rumm wrote
Radio Man wrote

I think the Pfizer is more powerful because I've had both
vaccines (I am clinically highly vulnerable) and the Pfizer
gave me more side effects than the Astra Zeneca.

That seems like a leap of logic too far. For starters you would not
necessarily expect the same response to the first jab as you get to
the second, and you can only be a COVID19 vaccine virgin the once.

Its more complicated than that because the AstraZeneca
includes an active monkey virus, deliberately.

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Message-ID:

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 30/03/2021 14:16, T i m wrote:
On 30 Mar 2021 12:37:13 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 30 Mar 2021 at 11:44:02 BST, T i m wrote:

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine ...

If you're not allergic to any component of the jab, then there's no
reason for
your body to do anything except, over a small number of weeks, your
immune
system notices the foreign item and starts priming your T-cells to eat
it up.

So ignoring / discarding any physiological / environmental / unlinked
effects, why do some people seem to suffer quite strong after effects?

The initial part of the trial for vaccines was to test for reactions to
different levels of dose.

I understand that was how AZ came to a conclusion the best efficacy was
from an initial 1/2 dose.

Nope, the initial half dose was accidental, not deliberate.

I guess putting any foreign substance into our body is going to get some
reaction,

Not necessarily. Some produce no reaction.

especially one that is intended to provoke an immune response.

Especially one that deliberately uses an active monkey virus.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 15:49:50 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.


ZOE has the statistics which ISTR are about 20% notice something on the
first jab and a slightly higher proportion on the second jab.

Ah, ok, so not feeling any side effects is by far the most common.

Females
typically more prone to side effects (due to lower blood volume and a
stronger immune reponse according to my tame biochemist).

Ok (handy thing to have in such times). ;-)

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vacci...eady-had-covid

They have some quite good seminars from time to time.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

My wife was knocked sideways by it the day after.

Oh. ;-(

I just felt a bit
lethargic for a day.

I have days like that anyway so couldn't put it down to the Covid jab.
;-)

Slightly sore shoulder (as in couldn't lie on it
for one night) after 2 days

Ah. Mine was noticeable but only if you poked it (Doctor: Don't poke
it then). ;-)

and that was about it.

Ok, thanks.

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

It is the initial response to the challenge of alien proteins. The mRNA
vaccines being slightly different to the AZ one which uses

... ?

snip

The most common symptom is slightly swollen lymph nodes nearest to the
vaccination point. Most people won't even notice though.

Yeah, we tend not to notice stuff if it doesn't become apparent on
it's own or doesn't hurt, and may only find it if we actually look for
it.

Whilst I don't have a particularly high threshold of pain (unlike the
Mrs, just as well considering her medical history) I can often endure
levels of discomfort that would send others up the wall. Like, I've
actually lost a padded shoe insole on a walk, meaning it must have
worked it's way out of the std position and everything in between
coming out of my shoe and me not noticing ... or maybe noticing but
ignoring etc.

I think it was something similar that caused me to get a 'Pyogenic
granuloma' under my heel that they suggest could have been caused by
some 'trauma', like walking some miles with a stone in my shoe ... ;-(

That's actually due to sense, no feeling and your diabetes.

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

A lot of questions, but I doubt if anyone knows the answers.

Corse they do, we have been vaccinating for more than a century now.

This exact same thing happens with the flu jab I stopped having mine as I
got fed up of several days of an itchy rash, well I got the same rash from
the oxford injection so one supposes its an allergic one of minor sort.

Yep, the non active components are common.

I read some data on the vaccines and not all the vaccine is the complete
spike part, it is often fragments of it to try to widen the net so to
speak to help fight mutations.

And use bits of the virus that don’t mutate for the same reason.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...
your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation
but your body can do it 'easily'?

Cheers, T i m

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Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
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Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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MID:

"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
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--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

On a completely non scientific sample the side effects seem to be worse in
men,

Its actually the reverse when measured properly.

Most likely due to lower body mass.

unless of course men just moan more.

That’s only with you poms. You arent
called whinging poms for nothing.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 15:49:50 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.


ZOE has the statistics which ISTR are about 20% notice something on the
first jab and a slightly higher proportion on the second jab.

Ah, ok, so not feeling any side effects is by far the most common.

Females
typically more prone to side effects (due to lower blood volume and a
stronger immune reponse according to my tame biochemist).

Ok (handy thing to have in such times). ;-)

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vacci...eady-had-covid

They have some quite good seminars from time to time.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

My wife was knocked sideways by it the day after.

Oh. ;-(

I just felt a bit
lethargic for a day.

I have days like that anyway so couldn't put it down to the Covid jab.
;-)

Slightly sore shoulder (as in couldn't lie on it
for one night) after 2 days

Ah. Mine was noticeable but only if you poked it (Doctor: Don't poke
it then). ;-)

and that was about it.

Ok, thanks.

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

It is the initial response to the challenge of alien proteins. The mRNA
vaccines being slightly different to the AZ one which uses

... ?

snip

The most common symptom is slightly swollen lymph nodes nearest to the
vaccination point. Most people won't even notice though.

Yeah, we tend not to notice stuff if it doesn't become apparent on
it's own or doesn't hurt, and may only find it if we actually look for
it.

Whilst I don't have a particularly high threshold of pain (unlike the
Mrs, just as well considering her medical history) I can often endure
levels of discomfort that would send others up the wall. Like, I've
actually lost a padded shoe insole on a walk, meaning it must have
worked it's way out of the std position and everything in between
coming out of my shoe and me not noticing ... or maybe noticing but
ignoring etc.

I think it was something similar that caused me to get a 'Pyogenic
granuloma' under my heel that they suggest could have been caused by
some 'trauma', like walking some miles with a stone in my shoe ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 30 Mar 2021 18:27:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

By far the commonest reaction to the jabs is to bore all your friends about
it on Facebook. ;-)

Which is probably yet another reason (if such was needed) why I don't
use Facebook. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:46:24 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

snip

The is no such thing as a 'standard' blood test, just as there is
no such thing as a 'standard' disease.

No, but there could be a standard range of tests they apply to 'most
people having a 'routine blood test'?

Every set of symptoms requires
a specific type of blood test to prove /disprove what the GP is
attempting to diagnose.

Sure, but what if they aren't actually trying to 'diagnose' anything,
just looking at the standard things that someone (of a certain age
maybe) might need checked?

We didn't approach our GP with any medical complaint that required a
blood test, I was booked to do one pre lockdown 'because' and once the
dust had settled re-scheduled mine and got one for the Mrs at the same
time as we had both been vegan for a year and it made sense.

Luckily it was as I hoped ... very much more efficient and socially
distanced than pre the lockdown.

No going in, taking a ticket and sitting cheek by jowl with loads of
potentially sick people for an hour and a half (or more), arrive at
the designated time, wait (2 mins) in your car for the text, walk
though, sit down, have bloods taken, get up and go out of the other
door, back to the car and home.

I did stress the vegan thing (and he sounded like he acknowledged
such) but I have no idea if they tested us any differently to 'std'
.... if there are any more stringent tests they might typically do that
would prove anything different over the std ones?

Cheers, T i m

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

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asshole.
MID:

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On 30 Mar 2021 18:27:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

By far the commonest reaction to the jabs is to bore all your friends
about
it on Facebook. ;-)

Which is probably yet another reason (if such was needed) why I don't
use Facebook. ;-)

More fool you. The buy swap sell groups would
a lot better than craigs list, freecycle etc etc etc.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:05:13 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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MID:

On 30/03/2021 19:46, Andrew wrote:
On 30/03/2021 15:13, John Rumm wrote:
On 30/03/2021 12:32, T i m wrote:

Like, what if the Mrs and I have had Covid19 asymptomatically? If
asked by any medical personnel 'have you had covid or the symptoms'
within the last 2 weeks (or whatever) we would have replied 'no', or
'not at all' (not just the last two weeks) but could have had covid
and therefore already have the antibodies?

Yup, it's possible. The amount of asymptomatic transmission was one
the big unknowns in the early days, but now we know there is lots of it.

We both recently had routine blood tests (mine was due at the time of
the first lockdown and so didn't bother getting it done) and mine was
done prior to my jab (only the one so far) so would they 'routinely'
check for covid antibodies in that (none was mentioned other than 'all
normal' etc)?

I suspect they could do a search if required, but that is not usually
part of a standard blood test.


The is no such thing as a 'standard' blood test, just as there is

There is no "one" standard, but there are a number of very common
combinations. Typically starting with a full blood count, perhaps
lipids, and kidney and/or liver function etc. Quite often tuned to check
the long term effects of common medications, or keep tab on common
ailments etc.

no such thing as a 'standard' disease. Every set of symptoms requires
a specific type of blood test to prove /disprove what the GP is
attempting to diagnose. Antibody tests are not done routinely AFAIK
apart from when you need an operation and some blood is cross matched
in advance.

Which is what I was getting at. They can check for antibodies or viral
infections, but these are not commonly done unless looking for something
specific.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On 30 Mar 2021 18:27:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

By far the commonest reaction to the jabs is to bore all your friends about
it on Facebook. ;-)

Which is probably yet another reason (if such was needed) why I don't
use Facebook. ;-)

Unlike here, it's very easy to unfriend someone and never see their posts
again. Here, they tend to get quoted by others so you still see them.

--
*I don't feel old. I don't feel anything until noon. Then it's time for my nap.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Jethro_uk used his keyboard to write :
I'll admit I posted after ours. If it goes towards another person getting
protected it's worth the cringe factor.

+1 - It can help persuade the anti-vaxxers that the risk is tiny,
compared to not having it.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 00:42:55 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On 30 Mar 2021 18:27:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

By far the commonest reaction to the jabs is to bore all your friends about
it on Facebook. ;-)

Which is probably yet another reason (if such was needed) why I don't
use Facebook. ;-)

Unlike here, it's very easy to unfriend someone and never see their posts
again. Here, they tend to get quoted by others so you still see them.

But when I did try it, it was trying to link me to everone and his
brother and that was just as bad as ignoring trolls. ;-(

Can you turn everything like that off across every platform. eg, I
*just* want to communicate with the people I select and don't want to
hear *anything* else from *anyone* else (and especially their
friends)?

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 00:42:55 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On 30 Mar 2021 18:27:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the
jab I was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of
reaction they may have to one and why that might be?

By far the commonest reaction to the jabs is to bore all your
friends about it on Facebook. ;-)

Which is probably yet another reason (if such was needed) why I don't
use Facebook. ;-)

Unlike here, it's very easy to unfriend someone and never see their
posts again. Here, they tend to get quoted by others so you still see
them.

But when I did try it, it was trying to link me to everone and his
brother and that was just as bad as ignoring trolls. ;-(

FB works OK after you have set up your network of friends.

Can you turn everything like that off across every platform. eg, I
*just* want to communicate with the people I select and don't want to
hear *anything* else from *anyone* else (and especially their friends)?

I find it good to keep in touch with friends and family that I'm not often
in direct contact with. But I'm not an expert on all the alternatives. It
is more about trivia than serious issues, though. There are also groups on
it - say if you're interested in pretty well anything, you'll find a group
covering it. With far less OT stuff than you get here. ;-)

I have a medical condition I knew very little about. Joined a closed FB
group (so only vetted members can see it) which has been an excellent
source of both information and support.

--
*Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 10:52:53 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

But when I did try it, it was trying to link me to everone and his
brother and that was just as bad as ignoring trolls. ;-(

FB works OK after you have set up your network of friends.

Ok.

Can you turn everything like that off across every platform. eg, I
*just* want to communicate with the people I select and don't want to
hear *anything* else from *anyone* else (and especially their friends)?

I find it good to keep in touch with friends and family that I'm not often
in direct contact with.

I tend to use email / Whatsapp (that I know is owned by Facebook but
not the same sort of interface) and have a couple of groups on there
that seem to work ok.

But I'm not an expert on all the alternatives. It
is more about trivia than serious issues, though.

Yes, I did join to access a boating group but again, I had all these
'Someone you have never heard of friend wants to be your friend' stuff
and couldn't be bothered with it. I spent more time clearing
irrelevant messages as I did reading the real ones. ;-(

There are also groups on
it - say if you're interested in pretty well anything, you'll find a group
covering it.

Yes, I saw that but again, how do you get rid of all the dross? The
last time I asked I think I was told you can't. ;-(

With far less OT stuff than you get here. ;-)

I tend to still used the independent moderated groups. As long as
there are enough people using it to keep it buoyant you are ok, the
alternative being Facebook and loads of messages but from other
peoples friends? ;-(

I have a medical condition I knew very little about. Joined a closed FB
group (so only vetted members can see it) which has been an excellent
source of both information and support.

Yeah, I'm sure it *can* be ok but unless you can get rid of all the
other stuff, the signal to noise is still too high for me.

Plus I hate the interface and from what I've seen of others using it,
it seems to be more by luck, poke-n-hope than comprehension.

One (old, non technical) mate says he's signed into 3 accounts when he
only wants to be in one. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 30/03/2021 16:26, John Rumm wrote:
On 30/03/2021 14:12, Radio Man wrote:

I think the Pfizer is more powerful because I've had both vaccines (I
am clinically highly vulnerable) and the Pfizer gave me more side
effects than the Astra Zeneca.

That seems like a leap of logic too far. For starters you would not
necessarily expect the same response to the first jab as you get to the
second, and you can only be a COVID19 vaccine virgin the once.

Worse than that being given one of each is an unlicensed use unless you
are a part of a clinical trail into mixing and matching of vaccines.

It is supposed to be a second injection of the same vaccine.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 30/03/2021 21:09, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:46:24 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

snip

The is no such thing as a 'standard' blood test, just as there is
no such thing as a 'standard' disease.

No, but there could be a standard range of tests they apply to 'most
people having a 'routine blood test'?


None of which will include any sort of 'antibody' test unless you
are having blood crossmatched.

The only 'standard' blood tests are typically full blood count,
and a whole range of biochemistry tests that are grouped into
Liver Function tests, U&E's, bone screens, cardiac markers etc.

These groupings typically exist because the analysers that
do them churn out multiple parameters from *one* sample,
i.e. EDTA for FBC, Heparin and Clotted serum for biochemistry.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 12:01:48 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 21:09, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:46:24 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

snip

The is no such thing as a 'standard' blood test, just as there is
no such thing as a 'standard' disease.

No, but there could be a standard range of tests they apply to 'most
people having a 'routine blood test'?


None of which will include any sort of 'antibody' test unless you
are having blood crossmatched.

Quite, as John said a few posts back?

The only 'standard' blood tests are typically full blood count,
and a whole range of biochemistry tests that are grouped into
Liver Function tests, U&E's, bone screens, cardiac markers etc.

Ok.

These groupings typically exist because the analysers that
do them churn out multiple parameters from *one* sample,
i.e. EDTA for FBC, Heparin and Clotted serum for biochemistry.

Makes sense.

Cheers, T i m