One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...
your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation
but your body can do it 'easily'?

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely that
it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...
your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation but
your body can do it 'easily'?

Cheers, T i m

There's always the chance that they actually caught Covid a short while
before having the jab and the 'reaction to the vaccine' was Covid symptoms.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:03:36 -0000 (UTC), Scion
wrote:

snip

There's always the chance that they actually caught Covid a short while
before having the jab and the 'reaction to the vaccine' was Covid symptoms.

Ah, that's a good point.

Whilst that can't be ruled out, they are generally very careful with
it all and so think would have got it sooner than just before getting
the jab (but not impossible of course).

Cheers, T i m

Scion posted
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?


My wife and I both had the AZ vaccine in February, hers coming first by
a couple of weeks. She had no adverse reaction whatever. I was fine on
the day I had it, but during the following night I woke up several times
with an extremely dry mouth. In the morning I had headache, nausea,
general malaise, very like a bad hangover. Also I felt unable to keep
warm and had to go to bed. This lasted until the evening.

It was unlikely to be psychological because (a) I was not expecting any
reaction, having seen none in my wife; (b) I had had a flu jab a few
weeks before and had no reaction then (so no needle-phobia); and (c)
several of our friends have had the same reaction, some worse, some less
bad.

There's always the chance that they actually caught Covid a short while
before having the jab and the 'reaction to the vaccine' was Covid symptoms.

No, the vaccine side-effect symptoms were entirely different. And also
they disappeared completely by the following day, which a symptomatic
Covid infection would not have done.

--
Algernon

On 30/03/2021 12:34, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
Scion posted
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?


My wife and I both had the AZ vaccine in February, hers coming first by
a couple of weeks. She had no adverse reaction whatever. I was fine on
the day I had it, but during the following night I woke up several times
with an extremely dry mouth. In the morning I had headache, nausea,
general malaise, very like a bad hangover. Also I felt unable to keep
warm and had to go to bed. This lasted until the evening.

It was unlikely to be psychological because (a) I was not expecting any
reaction, having seen none in my wife; (b) I had had a flu jab a few
weeks before and had no reaction then (so no needle-phobia); and (c)
several of our friends have had the same reaction, some worse, some less
bad.

There's always the chance that they actually caught Covid a short while
before having the jab and the 'reaction to the vaccine' was Covid
symptoms.

No, the vaccine side-effect symptoms were entirely different. And also
they disappeared completely by the following day, which a symptomatic
Covid infection would not have done.

Short term effects like that may not be nice, but they are a perfectly
normal response to many vaccines and do no real harm. Well worth it for
knowing that you now have at least some protection.

I am booked in for my first jab on Thursday. I hope I have no reaction,
but if I do feel ill, I've got the long weekend to recover.

On 30/03/2021 12:52, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/03/2021 12:34, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
Scion posted
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?


My wife and I both had the AZ vaccine in February, hers coming first
by a couple of weeks. She had no adverse reaction whatever. I was fine
on the day I had it, but during the following night I woke up several
times with an extremely dry mouth. In the morning I had headache,
nausea, general malaise, very like a bad hangover. Also I felt unable
to keep warm and had to go to bed. This lasted until the evening.

It was unlikely to be psychological because (a) I was not expecting
any reaction, having seen none in my wife; (b) I had had a flu jab a
few weeks before and had no reaction then (so no needle-phobia); and
(c) several of our friends have had the same reaction, some worse,
some less bad.

There's always the chance that they actually caught Covid a short while
before having the jab and the 'reaction to the vaccine' was Covid
symptoms.

No, the vaccine side-effect symptoms were entirely different. And also
they disappeared completely by the following day, which a symptomatic
Covid infection would not have done.

Short term effects like that may not be nice, but they are a perfectly
normal response to many vaccines and do no real harm. Well worth it for
knowing that you now have at least some protection.

I am booked in for my first jab on Thursday. I hope I have no reaction,
but if I do feel ill, I've got the long weekend to recover.

You may well get a stringer reaction to a 2nd dose.

--
Michael Chare

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:23:07 +0100, Michael Chare
wrote:

snip

I am booked in for my first jab on Thursday. I hope I have no reaction,
but if I do feel ill, I've got the long weekend to recover.

You may well get a stringer reaction to a 2nd dose.

OOI, my Mrs got the same reaction to her second as her first and that
was next to none (a slight sensitivity at the actual injection point).


Cheers, T i m

On 30-03-2021 13:23, Michael Chare wrote:
On 30/03/2021 12:52, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/03/2021 12:34, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
Scion posted
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?


My wife and I both had the AZ vaccine in February, hers coming first
by a couple of weeks. She had no adverse reaction whatever. I was
fine on the day I had it, but during the following night I woke up
several times with an extremely dry mouth. In the morning I had
headache, nausea, general malaise, very like a bad hangover. Also I
felt unable to keep warm and had to go to bed. This lasted until the
evening.

It was unlikely to be psychological because (a) I was not expecting
any reaction, having seen none in my wife; (b) I had had a flu jab a
few weeks before and had no reaction then (so no needle-phobia); and
(c) several of our friends have had the same reaction, some worse,
some less bad.

There's always the chance that they actually caught Covid a short while
before having the jab and the 'reaction to the vaccine' was Covid
symptoms.

No, the vaccine side-effect symptoms were entirely different. And
also they disappeared completely by the following day, which a
symptomatic Covid infection would not have done.

Short term effects like that may not be nice, but they are a perfectly
normal response to many vaccines and do no real harm. Well worth it
for knowing that you now have at least some protection.

I am booked in for my first jab on Thursday. I hope I have no
reaction, but if I do feel ill, I've got the long weekend to recover.

You may well get a stringer reaction to a 2nd dose.

I think the Pfizer is more powerful because I've had both vaccines (I am
clinically highly vulnerable) and the Pfizer gave me more side effects
than the Astra Zeneca.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 12:34:23 +0100, Algernon Goss-Custard
wrote:

snip

My wife and I both had the AZ vaccine in February, hers coming first by
a couple of weeks. She had no adverse reaction whatever. I was fine on
the day I had it, but during the following night I woke up several times
with an extremely dry mouth. In the morning I had headache, nausea,
general malaise, very like a bad hangover. Also I felt unable to keep
warm and had to go to bed. This lasted until the evening.

Thanks for the feedback.

It was unlikely to be psychological because (a) I was not expecting any
reaction, having seen none in my wife; (b) I had had a flu jab a few
weeks before and had no reaction then (so no needle-phobia);

Ok.

and (c)
several of our friends have had the same reaction, some worse, some less
bad.

Do you mean independently on their jabs unbeknown to you or wouldn't
the fact that they did have a reaction, add, not detract from any
possible 'psychological effect' on you?

snip

Cheers, T i m

T i m posted
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 12:34:23 +0100, Algernon Goss-Custard
wrote:
It was unlikely to be psychological because (a) I was not expecting any
reaction, having seen none in my wife; (b) I had had a flu jab a few
weeks before and had no reaction then (so no needle-phobia);
and (c)
several of our friends have had the same reaction, some worse, some less
bad.

Do you mean independently on their jabs unbeknown to you or wouldn't
the fact that they did have a reaction, add, not detract from any
possible 'psychological effect' on you?

I didn't know about them until a week or two later, so it couldn't have
affected my reaction to the jab.

--
Algernon

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 15:11:38 +0100, Algernon Goss-Custard
wrote:

T i m posted
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 12:34:23 +0100, Algernon Goss-Custard
wrote:
It was unlikely to be psychological because (a) I was not expecting any
reaction, having seen none in my wife; (b) I had had a flu jab a few
weeks before and had no reaction then (so no needle-phobia);
and (c)
several of our friends have had the same reaction, some worse, some less
bad.

Do you mean independently on their jabs unbeknown to you or wouldn't
the fact that they did have a reaction, add, not detract from any
possible 'psychological effect' on you?

I didn't know about them until a week or two later, so it couldn't have
affected my reaction to the jab.

Thanks for clarifying.

Cheers, T i m

My feeling having asked is this. Many corona viruses circulate every year.
They are all very similar but some like this one do have a very bad effect
on certain people, not sure why yet, but as has been said, you have probably
had a similar one and hence a lot of the work is done for your body, and
this might also explain those who get it and have few symptoms, but they can
still spread it for some days nonetheless.


Things like rashes are often a reaction to the foreign matter in the muscle
tissue of course.

I did have an antibody test earlier in the year but had none, but apparently
after several months these go away but the memory of how to make them is
held by parts of the immune system making it much easier to make more at
short notice.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Scion" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:44:02 +0100, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?) in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely that
it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...
your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation but
your body can do it 'easily'?

Cheers, T i m

There's always the chance that they actually caught Covid a short while
before having the jab and the 'reaction to the vaccine' was Covid
symptoms.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

I've had both too - Pfizer. No reaction and barely even felt the actual
jab. Did wonder if the needle is smaller than for the AZ, as some have
felt that.

Being old, most of my mates etc have had it. Straw poll of those says few
have had any reaction at all, and those that did just mild pain in the arm
for a day or so. Really no different from the reaction to a flue jab.

--
*Pride is what we have. Vanity is what others have.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 12:24:04 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

I've had both too - Pfizer. No reaction and barely even felt the actual
jab.

No, we didn't feel ours either (and I'm no fan of needles /
injections).

Did wonder if the needle is smaller than for the AZ, as some have
felt that.

We had AZ and the Mrs wasn't even aware they had done it. But then
she's got a full and long service history and her Gold blood donors
badge so has probably experienced far worse.

Being old, most of my mates etc have had it. Straw poll of those says few
have had any reaction at all, and those that did just mild pain in the arm
for a day or so.

Yah, we might have just felt / had that.

Really no different from the reaction to a flue jab.

I'll have to take your word on that. ;-)

I did get a recorded message offering one and when in conversation
with the doctors receptionist on another matter a week later I was
informed 'they have stopped offering them now'. I could get one done
anywhere else and if I did I could stipulate it be the vegan one (and
why wouldn't everone do that, if they knew the consequences of using
eggs and that there was a choice)?

Cheers, T i m

Dave Plowman (News) brought next idea :
Being old, most of my mates etc have had it. Straw poll of those says few
have had any reaction at all, and those that did just mild pain in the arm
for a day or so. Really no different from the reaction to a flue jab.

I had no reaction to my first ever flu jab in October.

I had my first Pfizer early Feb, hardly felt the needle, no reaction to
it, no sore arm, just a slight feeling of a bruise in the area if I
felt for it, but no mark.

My partner had the AZ last Thursday, fear of needles so I went with
her. Not much reaction, though a slight headache and a heavy arm. She
was sent home half an hour early on the Friday from the school where
she works.

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

My sleep pattern has changed over the past few months and I tend to
listen to the world news in the early hours of the morning.

A few things that were reported (during interviews)....

Those who have a greater reaction to the vaccine may be those who would
have had the most serious outcome if they caught the virus.

The consequences of being obese: Age is the overriding factor and
obesity just pushes your risk up the age range. The risk with age
doubles for each 8 years of age. Someone who is 20 and is obese has the
same risk as a 30 year old. But someone who is 60 and obese may have
the same risk as someone at 66. By the time you get to 75 obesity
doesn't increase the risk by much because you are already entering the
high age risk group.

Covid mortality in India is low and it hasn't been explained yet by the
medical profession. This seems contrary to the reported experience in
the UK.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:00:51 +0100, alan_m
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

My sleep pattern has changed over the past few months and I tend to
listen to the world news in the early hours of the morning.

A few things that were reported (during interviews)....

Those who have a greater reaction to the vaccine may be those who would
have had the most serious outcome if they caught the virus.

That's what I was wondering, if there was any linkage to the level of
reaction and the likelihood of catching / suffering (dying) from it.

The consequences of being obese: Age is the overriding factor and
obesity just pushes your risk up the age range. The risk with age
doubles for each 8 years of age. Someone who is 20 and is obese has the
same risk as a 30 year old. But someone who is 60 and obese may have
the same risk as someone at 66. By the time you get to 75 obesity
doesn't increase the risk by much because you are already entering the
high age risk group.

Makes sense.

Covid mortality in India is low and it hasn't been explained yet by the
medical profession. This seems contrary to the reported experience in
the UK.

It will be interesting to see what pans out in the end (if there is
'an end' etc).

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:00:51 +0100, alan_m
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

My sleep pattern has changed over the past few months and I tend to
listen to the world news in the early hours of the morning.

A few things that were reported (during interviews)....

Those who have a greater reaction to the vaccine may be those who would
have had the most serious outcome if they caught the virus.

That's what I was wondering, if there was any linkage to the level of
reaction and the likelihood of catching / suffering (dying) from it.

The consequences of being obese: Age is the overriding factor and
obesity just pushes your risk up the age range. The risk with age
doubles for each 8 years of age. Someone who is 20 and is obese has the
same risk as a 30 year old. But someone who is 60 and obese may have
the same risk as someone at 66. By the time you get to 75 obesity
doesn't increase the risk by much because you are already entering the
high age risk group.

Makes sense.

Covid mortality in India is low and it hasn't been explained yet by the
medical profession. This seems contrary to the reported experience in
the UK.

It will be interesting to see what pans out in the end (if there is
'an end' etc).

Corse there will be an end, even if its still a very small
problem like with the plague which still kills a few today.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 05:23:14 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 30/03/2021 13:00, alan_m wrote:
Covid mortality in India is low and it hasn't been explained yet by the
medical profession. This seems contrary to the reported experience in
the UK.

*Reported* covid mortality in India is low. People in India die on the
streets all the time. Who knows what they die of?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...af1_story.html

In short its really just another example of 'we really haven't a ****ing
clue, but lets spin some inadequate data to make a story'


--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

My sleep pattern has changed over the past few months and I tend to listen
to the world news in the early hours of the morning.

A few things that were reported (during interviews)....

Those who have a greater reaction to the vaccine may be those who would
have had the most serious outcome if they caught the virus.

Cant see the logic there.

The consequences of being obese: Age is the overriding factor and obesity
just pushes your risk up the age range. The risk with age doubles for
each 8 years of age. Someone who is 20 and is obese has the same risk as a
30 year old. But someone who is 60 and obese may have the same risk as
someone at 66. By the time you get to 75 obesity doesn't increase the risk
by much because you are already entering the high age risk group.

That has nothing to do with the effect of the vaccine on you.

Covid mortality in India is low and it hasn't been explained yet by the
medical profession. This seems contrary to the reported experience in the
UK.

Ditto.

On 30/03/2021 13:00, alan_m wrote:
On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:
One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

My sleep pattern has changed over the past few months and I tend to
listen to the world news in the early hours of the morning.

A few things that were reported (during interviews)....

Those who have a greater reaction to the vaccine may be those who would
have had the most serious outcome if they caught the virus.

The consequences of being obese: Age is the overriding factor and
obesity just pushes your risk up the age range.Â* The risk with age
doubles for each 8 years of age. Someone who is 20 and is obese has the
same risk as a 30 year old.Â* But someone who is 60 and obese may have
the same risk as someone at 66. By the time you get to 75 obesity
doesn't increase the risk by much because you are already entering the
high age risk group.

Covid mortality in India is low and it hasn't been explained yet by the
medical profession. This seems contrary to the reported experience in
the UK.


You don't see many wobblingly fat people in India.

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

All of the above are possible...

(I had my first one this morning, so I will find out which if any kick
in for me!)

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?)

Sometimes it's an attenuated or weakened version of the actual pathogen
(or possibly a genetically engineered version with its "payload"
removed), but more commonly its just a part of it - typically some of
the surface proteins since these will be what the immune system will
"see" first following infection.

in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

Yup - some of the symptoms we associate with "infection" like raised
temperature etc are just those of the bodies immune system "activating".

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...

AIUI, if you already have some antibodies to the pathogen then you are
more likely to have a more noticeable reaction to the vaccine - as it
will be "recognised" and provoke a more direct response.

So for people who have already had a similar infection they may get a
more noticeable response to the first vaccine. For others who have not
been previously exposed, they may get more response to the second.

your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation
but your body can do it 'easily'?

Some people seem to have less response than others anyway. Older people
tend to have less response. With some vaccines that can mean that they
are less effective in older people, however with the current covid ones,
that does not appear to be the cases. They have all been shown to
provoke very strong antibody response across all the age groups,
regardless of the reaction experienced by the recipient.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 14:26:45 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

All of the above are possible...

Ok.

(I had my first one this morning, so I will find out which if any kick
in for me!)

Cool. A live study. ;-)

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?)

Sometimes it's an attenuated or weakened version of the actual pathogen
(or possibly a genetically engineered version with its "payload"
removed), but more commonly its just a part of it - typically some of
the surface proteins since these will be what the immune system will
"see" first following infection.

Understood.

in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

Yup - some of the symptoms we associate with "infection" like raised
temperature etc are just those of the bodies immune system "activating".

But can some people have these things going on and not experience any
noticeable reaction whilst other do then?

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...

AIUI, if you already have some antibodies to the pathogen then you are
more likely to have a more noticeable reaction to the vaccine - as it
will be "recognised" and provoke a more direct response.

Ah, ok, that makes sense. A bigger gun to fight back with etc.

So for people who have already had a similar infection they may get a
more noticeable response to the first vaccine. For others who have not
been previously exposed, they may get more response to the second.

Ok (and explains why a second jab as mentioned elsewhere might create
a greater action).

your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation
but your body can do it 'easily'?

Some people seem to have less response than others anyway. Older people
tend to have less response. With some vaccines that can mean that they
are less effective in older people, however with the current covid ones,
that does not appear to be the cases. They have all been shown to
provoke very strong antibody response across all the age groups,
regardless of the reaction experienced by the recipient.

Ok thanks. Please let us know how you feel over the next 24 hours. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 30/03/2021 14:42, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 14:26:45 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

All of the above are possible...

Ok.

(I had my first one this morning, so I will find out which if any kick
in for me!)

Cool. A live study. ;-)

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?)

Sometimes it's an attenuated or weakened version of the actual pathogen
(or possibly a genetically engineered version with its "payload"
removed), but more commonly its just a part of it - typically some of
the surface proteins since these will be what the immune system will
"see" first following infection.

Understood.

in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

Yup - some of the symptoms we associate with "infection" like raised
temperature etc are just those of the bodies immune system "activating".

But can some people have these things going on and not experience any
noticeable reaction whilst other do then?

Yup. Much the same as with an infection itself - some might experience
worse effects of a cold than someone else with the same infection.

Age is a factor - generally immune responses weaken with age. (that was
one of the things that made the 1919 "spanish" flu do deadly - it tended
to cause a massive over-response in the immune system (a "cytokine
storm"), and so uncharacteristically tended to make fit healthy people
with strong immune systems more sick than the more traditional very old
and very young)

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...

AIUI, if you already have some antibodies to the pathogen then you are
more likely to have a more noticeable reaction to the vaccine - as it
will be "recognised" and provoke a more direct response.

Ah, ok, that makes sense. A bigger gun to fight back with etc.

So for people who have already had a similar infection they may get a
more noticeable response to the first vaccine. For others who have not
been previously exposed, they may get more response to the second.

Ok (and explains why a second jab as mentioned elsewhere might create
a greater action).

Yup, after the first, it's a "novel" pathogen that the body has to learn
how to fight. The second time, it's seen all the wanted posters :-)

your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation
but your body can do it 'easily'?

Some people seem to have less response than others anyway. Older people
tend to have less response. With some vaccines that can mean that they
are less effective in older people, however with the current covid ones,
that does not appear to be the cases. They have all been shown to
provoke very strong antibody response across all the age groups,
regardless of the reaction experienced by the recipient.

Ok thanks. Please let us know how you feel over the next 24 hours. ;-)
Will do - so long as I live :-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:19:41 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

But can some people have these things going on and not experience any
noticeable reaction whilst other do then?

Yup. Much the same as with an infection itself - some might experience
worse effects of a cold than someone else with the same infection.

Yes, of course and I would have thought because of similar reasons,
eg, just how 'easily' the body can deal with such an imposter /
threat.

Age is a factor - generally immune responses weaken with age. (that was
one of the things that made the 1919 "spanish" flu do deadly - it tended
to cause a massive over-response in the immune system (a "cytokine
storm"), and so uncharacteristically tended to make fit healthy people
with strong immune systems more sick than the more traditional very old
and very young)

Oooerr.

snip

Ok (and explains why a second jab as mentioned elsewhere might create
a greater action).

Yup, after the first, it's a "novel" pathogen that the body has to learn
how to fight. The second time, it's seen all the wanted posters :-)

Hehe.

snip

Ok thanks. Please let us know how you feel over the next 24 hours. ;-)

Will do - so long as I live :-)

Well, I'm sure we all hope so (well, not all, I'm sure there are
plenty of livestock that might prefer you weren't, if they were given
the choice) and who would sort the diy-Wiki stuff? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:19:41 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

Ok thanks. Please let us know how you feel over the next 24 hours. ;-)

Will do - so long as I live :-)

John ... John! Wake up! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 31/03/2021 12:11, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:19:41 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

Ok thanks. Please let us know how you feel over the next 24 hours. ;-)

Will do - so long as I live :-)

John ... John! Wake up! ;-)

Who me, must I?

Still here apparently... arm feels like it is a bit bruised, and very
slight temperature - but other than that, so far so good.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 14:26:45 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

All of the above are possible...

Ok.

(I had my first one this morning, so I will find out which if any kick
in for me!)

Cool. A live study. ;-)

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?)

Sometimes it's an attenuated or weakened version of the actual pathogen
(or possibly a genetically engineered version with its "payload"
removed), but more commonly its just a part of it - typically some of
the surface proteins since these will be what the immune system will
"see" first following infection.

Understood.

in readiness for the real / active virus and it's likely
that it's that load on our bodies that causes some of these reactions?

Yup - some of the symptoms we associate with "infection" like raised
temperature etc are just those of the bodies immune system "activating".

But can some people have these things going on and not
experience any noticeable reaction whilst other do then?

Yep, you get that with any virus. That's why some are
asymptomatic when infected with the covid virus.

So assuming it is (and not just an allergic reaction etc) if you don't
have any reaction symptoms at all, could it be you haven't been given
the vaccine (a placebo, I'm not suggesting this likely in this case),
that you already had sufficient antibodies for some reason (previous
similar viral infection or just because) so the body didn't react ...

AIUI, if you already have some antibodies to the pathogen then you are
more likely to have a more noticeable reaction to the vaccine - as it
will be "recognised" and provoke a more direct response.

Ah, ok, that makes sense. A bigger gun to fight back with etc.

So for people who have already had a similar infection they may get a
more noticeable response to the first vaccine. For others who have not
been previously exposed, they may get more response to the second.

Ok (and explains why a second jab as mentioned elsewhere might create
a greater action).

With the AstraZeneca that's due to it using a monkey virus.
Your body has antibodys to the monkey virus so when you
get the second injection, your immune system fights that
monkey virus and so you get a stronger reaction than you
did with the first one when you had no antibodys to the
monkey virus.

Some vaccines use a different monkey virus
in the second injection for that reason.

your body doesn't actually react (create antibodies), effectively
meaning that you are no better protected or you just happen to have a
different physiology to those who do seem to have more prominent
symptoms, where the same things are going on re antibody generation
but your body can do it 'easily'?

Some people seem to have less response than others anyway. Older people
tend to have less response. With some vaccines that can mean that they
are less effective in older people, however with the current covid ones,
that does not appear to be the cases. They have all been shown to
provoke very strong antibody response across all the age groups,
regardless of the reaction experienced by the recipient.

Ok thanks. Please let us know how you feel over the next 24 hours. ;-)

"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

On 30/03/2021 14:26, John Rumm wrote:
On 30/03/2021 11:44, T i m wrote:

One for the medical people ... As more and more people take the jab I
was wondering if there are any stats that cover what sort of reaction
they may have to one and why that might be?

eg. We both had the AZ jab (she's had both now) and neither of us had
any reaction at all.

In contrast, a mate, his Mrs and their friend all had theirs and all
three suffered ranging reactions from headaches, overall aching to
nausea etc?

All of the above are possible...

(I had my first one this morning, so I will find out which if any kick
in for me!)

As I understand it, the vaccine (most vaccines) start building our own
antibodies by exposing them to an inactive version of the target virus
(profile?)

Sometimes it's an attenuated or weakened version of the actual pathogen
(or possibly a genetically engineered version with its "payload"
removed), but more commonly its just a part of it - typically some of
the surface proteins since these will be what the immune system will
"see" first following infection.

Neither of the jabs in common use here are conventional ones. Quietly in
the last few years there's been some really radical work in biology.

The Pfizer-Biontech one is based on mRNA. This is a signalling system
used inside all living cells to make proteins, and in this case the
protein it makes is on the outside of the virus.

The AZ_Oxford one is a virus, but a modified cold virus. Modified to
make the same protein.

I had AZ, and had mild flu-like symptoms for a day; my wife had symptoms
for 3 days.

I know a few people who've had the real thing. They are young, and
basically healthy. And have become real zealots for everyone possible
being immunized. It's not fun.

Andy

On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 21:38:10 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

snip

The Pfizer-Biontech one is based on mRNA. This is a signalling system
used inside all living cells to make proteins, and in this case the
protein it makes is on the outside of the virus.

The AZ_Oxford one is a virus, but a modified cold virus. Modified to
make the same protein.

I had AZ, and had mild flu-like symptoms for a day; my wife had symptoms
for 3 days.

I know a few people who've had the real thing. They are young, and
basically healthy. And have become real zealots for everyone possible
being immunized. It's not fun.

So do we think there is a link between the OAZ jab and blood clots
(and not with PB) or is it that there may have been more doses of the
OAZ jab administered for some (potentially unlinked) 'link' being
formed?

I saw something of white blood cells / platelets mentioned on the news
earlier (like there was a link)?

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 21:38:10 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

snip

The Pfizer-Biontech one is based on mRNA. This is a signalling system
used inside all living cells to make proteins, and in this case the
protein it makes is on the outside of the virus.

The AZ_Oxford one is a virus, but a modified cold virus. Modified to
make the same protein.

I had AZ, and had mild flu-like symptoms for a day; my wife had symptoms
for 3 days.

I know a few people who've had the real thing. They are young, and
basically healthy. And have become real zealots for everyone possible
being immunized. It's not fun.

So do we think there is a link between the OAZ jab and blood clots

We know there is and its known to only happen
is an unusual subset of middle aged women.

(and not with PB)

Yep.

or is it that there may have been more
doses of the OAZ jab administered for some
(potentially unlinked) 'link' being formed?

That isnt the reason.

I saw something of white blood cells / platelets
mentioned on the news earlier (like there was a link)?

Yep, you need to have a low platelet count to get the problem.

And it's a very specific type of blood clot too, cerebral venous sinus
thrombosis.

On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 09:15:07 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 21:38:10 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

snip

The Pfizer-Biontech one is based on mRNA. This is a signalling system
used inside all living cells to make proteins, and in this case the
protein it makes is on the outside of the virus.

The AZ_Oxford one is a virus, but a modified cold virus. Modified to
make the same protein.

I had AZ, and had mild flu-like symptoms for a day; my wife had symptoms
for 3 days.

I know a few people who've had the real thing. They are young, and
basically healthy. And have become real zealots for everyone possible
being immunized. It's not fun.

So do we think there is a link between the OAZ jab and blood clots

We know there is and its known to only happen
is an unusual subset of middle aged women.

(and not with PB)

Yep.

or is it that there may have been more
doses of the OAZ jab administered for some
(potentially unlinked) 'link' being formed?

That isnt the reason.

I saw something of white blood cells / platelets
mentioned on the news earlier (like there was a link)?

Yep, you need to have a low platelet count to get the problem.

And it's a very specific type of blood clot too, cerebral venous sinus
thrombosis.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56620646

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 21:38:10 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

snip

The Pfizer-Biontech one is based on mRNA. This is a signalling system
used inside all living cells to make proteins, and in this case the
protein it makes is on the outside of the virus.

The AZ_Oxford one is a virus, but a modified cold virus. Modified to
make the same protein.

I had AZ, and had mild flu-like symptoms for a day; my wife had symptoms
for 3 days.

I know a few people who've had the real thing. They are young, and
basically healthy. And have become real zealots for everyone possible
being immunized. It's not fun.

So do we think there is a link between the OAZ jab and blood clots
(and not with PB) or is it that there may have been more doses of the
OAZ jab administered for some (potentially unlinked) 'link' being
formed?

I saw something of white blood cells / platelets mentioned on the news
earlier (like there was a link)?

Even if there is proved to be a link, it is still a tiny number compared
to the likelihood of being very ill with Covid.

Think of it like insurance. The vast majority never actually need their
house insurance. Yet happily pay it every year just in case of a serious
fire, etc.

--
*Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 12:11:03 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

So do we think there is a link between the OAZ jab and blood clots
(and not with PB) or is it that there may have been more doses of the
OAZ jab administered for some (potentially unlinked) 'link' being
formed?

I saw something of white blood cells / platelets mentioned on the news
earlier (like there was a link)?

Even if there is proved to be a link, it is still a tiny number compared
to the likelihood of being very ill with Covid.

Oh sure, I was just wondering if anyone yet thought that there
actually was a link, or that it couldn't still be just coincidence
etc?

Think of it like insurance. The vast majority never actually need their
house insurance. Yet happily pay it every year just in case of a serious
fire, etc.

Sure. The *only* issue might be if you were in the specific 'could be
at higher risk of a fatal blood clot' *if* it's actually linked to the
AZ vaccine, group.

If it's only 'middle aged women' then both of us here should be ok but
daughter is now 30 (so not middle aged but is a woman), but probably
won't be offered hers for a good while yet and by which time they
should have even more stats.

Just interested minds etc ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
I know a few people who've had the real thing. They are young, and
basically healthy. And have become real zealots for everyone possible
being immunized. It's not fun.

Quite. I have two friends who've had it, but not badly enough to have been
hospitalised. Both have the so called Long Covid. I don't know anyone out
of many who have had anything other than a mild reaction to the vaccine,
and the vast majority none at all. But most, being old like me, have had
Pfizer.

--
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 12:07:29 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
I know a few people who've had the real thing. They are young, and
basically healthy. And have become real zealots for everyone possible
being immunized. It's not fun.

Quite. I have two friends who've had it, but not badly enough to have been
hospitalised.

My mate (70+) has lost 3 family members and a couple of his (Ex)
garage customers to it. I'm not sure if he's aware of anyone who has
had it and survived?

Turns out my Mums next_door_neighbour had it (and survived) so that
was a pretty close call (for her).

snip

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
I know a few people who've had the real thing. They are young, and
basically healthy. And have become real zealots for everyone possible
being immunized. It's not fun.

Quite. I have two friends who've had it, but not badly enough to have been
hospitalised. Both have the so called Long Covid. I don't know anyone out
of many who have had anything other than a mild reaction to the vaccine,
and the vast majority none at all. But most, being old like me, have had
Pfizer.

I've had the Oxford one - I'm also old

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle