I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

There are multiple powering methods for LEDs.

For the low power (candle bulb) type, they can use
a "capacitor dropper" method. Which is unregulated.
Since any sort of line transient can damage such a
product, you would not expect it to reach 20,000 hours.

Modern LED bulbs, use an SMPS (switched mode power supply)
in the base. These aren't exceptionally reliable either.
And such a thing might fail before the 25,000 hours is up.
To handle this, in the specs it will say "rated for 50,000 starts",
which helps to describe the root cause of potential failures.
It implies more stress is present during starting (inrush
current into the front end of the SMPS). I don't consider
this when flicking a light switch, because it would
take quite a while to get to 50,000.

I see no reason to ascribe "candle bulb" reliability to anything
except candle bulbs. The candle bulb is its own animal, separate
from others. It trades exceptionally low RF output, for
increased susceptibility to damage.

There will be plenty of web pages out there, describing
"plug and play" replacements (zero labor, less efficient)
as well as replacement strategies (replace ballast, bypass
ballast, replace fixture, use entirely different LED solution,
more energy efficient if anyone cares). Then, not only must
you consider colour temperature and lumen output, but how the
product is fitted to the room.

https://insights.regencylighting.com...-cons-explored

Paul

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I have the same issue on my low priority list. I think it was John Rumm
a little while ago recommending the "flat panel" units for kitchens, etc.

I'm sure Paul was trying to be helpful, but a post saying "There's lots
of options" and then a link saying "There's lots of options" wasn't what
I was hoping for either :-)

& happy new year to all.

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I've moved to rectangular LED panels in the kitchen, utility and larder
- they look great (as in, they don't attract attention) and the diffuse
light is excellent. They're fairly cheap so, before committing, I bought
one and lashed it up to see whether SWMBO liked the result - a win!

On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:56:54 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

There are multiple powering methods for LEDs.

For the low power (candle bulb) type, they can use
a "capacitor dropper" method. Which is unregulated.
Since any sort of line transient can damage such a
product, you would not expect it to reach 20,000 hours.

Modern LED bulbs, use an SMPS (switched mode power supply)
in the base. These aren't exceptionally reliable either.
And such a thing might fail before the 25,000 hours is up.
To handle this, in the specs it will say "rated for 50,000 starts",
which helps to describe the root cause of potential failures.
It implies more stress is present during starting (inrush
current into the front end of the SMPS). I don't consider
this when flicking a light switch, because it would
take quite a while to get to 50,000.

I see no reason to ascribe "candle bulb" reliability to anything
except candle bulbs. The candle bulb is its own animal, separate
from others. It trades exceptionally low RF output, for
increased susceptibility to damage.

There will be plenty of web pages out there, describing
"plug and play" replacements (zero labor, less efficient)
as well as replacement strategies (replace ballast, bypass
ballast, replace fixture, use entirely different LED solution,
more energy efficient if anyone cares). Then, not only must
you consider colour temperature and lumen output, but how the
product is fitted to the room.

https://insights.regencylighting.com...-cons-explored

Paul

That's really helpful information, thanks.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 22:21:47 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I have the same issue on my low priority list. I think it was John Rumm
a little while ago recommending the "flat panel" units for kitchens, etc.

LED Flat panels - thanks, I hadn't considered those. I'll add them to
my list of options.

I'm sure Paul was trying to be helpful, but a post saying "There's lots
of options" and then a link saying "There's lots of options" wasn't what
I was hoping for either :-)

I think sometimes it's the case that there are lots of options though.
In these cases I prefer articles that detail the options so I can
determine the best one for my situation rather than "salesy" articles
that say "this is the best option for all use cases".

& happy new year to all.

Yes, happy new year to everyone on the group.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 22:26:26 +0000, wrote:

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I've moved to rectangular LED panels in the kitchen, utility and larder
- they look great (as in, they don't attract attention) and the diffuse
light is excellent. They're fairly cheap so, before committing, I bought
one and lashed it up to see whether SWMBO liked the result - a win!

Another vote for flat panels then - thanks, I'll definately be
considering those as an option.

In article ,
Caecilius wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 22:26:26 +0000, wrote:

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I've moved to rectangular LED panels in the kitchen, utility and larder
- they look great (as in, they don't attract attention) and the diffuse
light is excellent. They're fairly cheap so, before committing, I bought
one and lashed it up to see whether SWMBO liked the result - a win!

Another vote for flat panels then - thanks, I'll definately be
considering those as an option.

It's a lot of work versus simply replacing a tube?

--
*Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 10:59:09 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Caecilius wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 22:26:26 +0000, wrote:

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I've moved to rectangular LED panels in the kitchen, utility and larder
- they look great (as in, they don't attract attention) and the diffuse
light is excellent. They're fairly cheap so, before committing, I bought
one and lashed it up to see whether SWMBO liked the result - a win!

Another vote for flat panels then - thanks, I'll definately be
considering those as an option.

It's a lot of work versus simply replacing a tube?

Yes, but it might look a lot better. The utility room with a bare 5'
T12 battern fitting looks very, well, utilitarian.

I'm not sure how flat panels look on flat domestic ceilings though - a
lot of them seem to be designed for office suspended ceilings.

On 31/12/2020 10:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Caecilius wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 22:26:26 +0000, wrote:

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I've moved to rectangular LED panels in the kitchen, utility and larder
- they look great (as in, they don't attract attention) and the diffuse
light is excellent. They're fairly cheap so, before committing, I bought
one and lashed it up to see whether SWMBO liked the result - a win!

Another vote for flat panels then - thanks, I'll definately be
considering those as an option.

It's a lot of work versus simply replacing a tube?

It's very little work. The frame is held by 4 screws and the power
supply sits in the space between the panel and the ceiling. The panels
are so light that fixings don't need to be in timber. Simply remove the
existing light fitting, connect the little power supply, fix three sides
of the mounting frame to the ceiling, slide-in the panel, tap on the
last side. Admire the light, bask in DIY-god glory and wonder why you
didn't do it earlier ;-)

In article ,
Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 10:59:09 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Caecilius wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 22:26:26 +0000, wrote:

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I've moved to rectangular LED panels in the kitchen, utility and larder
- they look great (as in, they don't attract attention) and the diffuse
light is excellent. They're fairly cheap so, before committing, I bought
one and lashed it up to see whether SWMBO liked the result - a win!

Another vote for flat panels then - thanks, I'll definately be
considering those as an option.

It's a lot of work versus simply replacing a tube?

Yes, but it might look a lot better. The utility room with a bare 5'
T12 battern fitting looks very, well, utilitarian.

I'm not sure how flat panels look on flat domestic ceilings though - a
lot of them seem to be designed for office suspended ceilings.

My view is a flat panel surface mounted would look equally utilitarian.
And inset to the ceiling, like an office etc.

--
*I was once a millionaire but my mom gave away my baseball cards

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

But what if you don't want to remove a fitting and have to repaint and
decorate everything as were it is was never painted. Can one still, for
example get the led conversion kits that one could continue to use the old
Thorn single and double fittings with 40 watt tubes but with LEDs instead of
the now obsolete tubes. (the fat ones) Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I've moved to rectangular LED panels in the kitchen, utility and larder -
they look great (as in, they don't attract attention) and the diffuse
light is excellent. They're fairly cheap so, before committing, I bought
one and lashed it up to see whether SWMBO liked the result - a win!

I think T8 LED replacement tubes will work in a T12 battern fitting.
Not sure if the slimmer tibe will look odd though.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 16:21:20 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

But what if you don't want to remove a fitting and have to repaint and
decorate everything as were it is was never painted. Can one still, for
example get the led conversion kits that one could continue to use the old
Thorn single and double fittings with 40 watt tubes but with LEDs instead of
the now obsolete tubes. (the fat ones) Brian

On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 13:46:27 +0000, wrote:



It's a lot of work versus simply replacing a tube?

It's very little work. The frame is held by 4 screws and the power
supply sits in the space between the panel and the ceiling. The panels
are so light that fixings don't need to be in timber. Simply remove the
existing light fitting, connect the little power supply, fix three sides
of the mounting frame to the ceiling, slide-in the panel, tap on the
last side. Admire the light, bask in DIY-god glory and wonder why you
didn't do it earlier ;-)

+1 for the light weight and fitting to plasterboard.
I got two of these
(https://www.screwfix.com/p/twin-4ft-...w-3200lm/2297r)
to replace single 4ft flourescents - the only downside was that the
flourescents were cabled from the underside, at the centre, whereas
the leds were wired from the end, so not quite as easy, or as
like-for-like, as I'd expected.
I've had integral led light fittings for several years, and none of
them have failed, neither have any recent led 'bulb' purchases. (But
earlier generations did fail in some fittings.)

On 31/12/2020 16:29, Caecilius wrote:
I think T8 LED replacement tubes will work in a T12 battern fitting.

They will work in a T12 batten fitting.

Not sure if the slimmer tibe will look odd though.

It might. If you are likely to notice such things.

Some of the cheaper 5ft integrated battens are nothing more than cheap
LED strip with a cheap LED driver hidden behind a diffuser.


--
Adam

On 31/12/2020 13:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 10:59:09 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Caecilius wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 22:26:26 +0000, wrote:

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I've moved to rectangular LED panels in the kitchen, utility and larder
- they look great (as in, they don't attract attention) and the diffuse
light is excellent. They're fairly cheap so, before committing, I bought
one and lashed it up to see whether SWMBO liked the result - a win!

Another vote for flat panels then - thanks, I'll definately be
considering those as an option.

It's a lot of work versus simply replacing a tube?

Yes, but it might look a lot better. The utility room with a bare 5'
T12 battern fitting looks very, well, utilitarian.

I'm not sure how flat panels look on flat domestic ceilings though - a
lot of them seem to be designed for office suspended ceilings.

My view is a flat panel surface mounted would look equally utilitarian.
And inset to the ceiling, like an office etc.



So what would you suggest?

--
Adam

On 31/12/2020 17:57, ARW wrote:
On 31/12/2020 13:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 10:59:09 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â* Caecilius wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 22:26:26 +0000, wrote:

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced.Â* It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it
seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but
I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year
with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent
tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

I've moved to rectangular LED panels in the kitchen, utility and
larder
- they look great (as in, they don't attract attention) and the
diffuse
light is excellent. They're fairly cheap so, before committing, I
bought
one and lashed it up to see whether SWMBO liked the result - a win!

Another vote for flat panels then - thanks, I'll definately be
considering those as an option.

It's a lot of work versus simply replacing a tube?

Yes, but it might look a lot better.Â* The utility room with a bare 5'
T12 battern fitting looks very, well, utilitarian.

I'm not sure how flat panels look on flat domestic ceilings though - a
lot of them seem to be designed for office suspended ceilings.

My view is a flat panel surface mounted would look equally utilitarian.
And inset to the ceiling, like an office etc.



So what would you suggest?


scented candles and aroma therapy


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

ARW wrote:
Some of the cheaper 5ft integrated battens are nothing more than cheap
LED strip with a cheap LED driver hidden behind a diffuser.

There's a variety of cheap 'linkable' LED battens, eg:
https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel...3mm/dp/LA08131
and others:
https://www.easyflip.co.uk/CPC_Catalogue/?page=950

They appear to be LED tape/PCB on the chassis which forms a heatsink.
They're interesting in that they can be easily daisy-chained.

Although it seems there's not much standardisation of the (moulded)
connectors and the interconnection cables are short (under 1m). So if you
want to extend them you need to cut one in half and junction box both ends,
which is a bit annoying.

For the loft, I'm actually tempted to buy more lights to save having to
junction box. At £5 a light that's not implausible.

Theo

On 31/12/2020 09:43, Caecilius wrote:

I think sometimes it's the case that there are lots of options though.
In these cases I prefer articles that detail the options so I can
determine the best one for my situation rather than "salesy" articles
that say "this is the best option for all use cases".

Often the worst option is to retrofit a LED bulb into an existing
fitting designed for for "conventional" bulbs such as downlighters.

Without adequate free air ventilation or a large enough heat-sink the
heat will kill LEDs and LED electronics.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 31/12/2020 11:42, Caecilius wrote:

I'm not sure how flat panels look on flat domestic ceilings though - a
lot of them seem to be designed for office suspended ceilings.


Many of my light fittings are of the panel type. All mine are surface
mount (mounted beneath a flat ceiling) but I have different designs
including "designer" type more suited for living rooms.

Also consider the colour temperature of the LEDs. Although this is down
to personal preference I like cool/daylight/blue LEDS for places I'm
working such as a kitchen. I also prefer this end of the spectrum for
when I'm reading as it gives better contrast to the page. In my main
living room I have a large circular panel where the colour temperature
can be changed.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 12:57:58 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 31/12/2020 11:42, Caecilius wrote:

I'm not sure how flat panels look on flat domestic ceilings though - a
lot of them seem to be designed for office suspended ceilings.


Many of my light fittings are of the panel type. All mine are surface
mount (mounted beneath a flat ceiling) but I have different designs
including "designer" type more suited for living rooms.

I'd be interested to know what brands you use. I tend to buy my
lighting from screwfix, toolstation or TLC. I think these stores sell
mainly on price though, so there may be better quality options
available.

Also consider the colour temperature of the LEDs. Although this is down
to personal preference I like cool/daylight/blue LEDS for places I'm
working such as a kitchen. I also prefer this end of the spectrum for
when I'm reading as it gives better contrast to the page. In my main
living room I have a large circular panel where the colour temperature
can be changed.

Absolutely agree. Colour temperature is a big factor that's often
overlooked.

On 01/01/2021 12:48, alan_m wrote:
On 31/12/2020 09:43, Caecilius wrote:

I think sometimes it's the case that there are lots of options though.
In these cases I prefer articles that detail the options so I can
determine the best one for my situation rather than "salesy" articles
that say "this is the best option for all use cases".

Often the worst option is to retrofit a LED bulb into an existing
fitting designed for for "conventional" bulbs such as downlighters.

Without adequate free air ventilation or a large enough heat-sink the
heat will kill LEDs and LED electronics.

Agreed, but "ordinary" LED bulbs work very well in those awful "triple
spotlite" disks and bars that were designed for ancient reflector
spotlights. (It's only my total lack of taste that has stopped me
replacing these in my office, my wife's sewing room, and an attic)

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 31/12/2020 09:43, Caecilius wrote:

I think sometimes it's the case that there are lots of options though.
In these cases I prefer articles that detail the options so I can
determine the best one for my situation rather than "salesy" articles
that say "this is the best option for all use cases".

Often the worst option is to retrofit a LED bulb into an existing
fitting designed for for "conventional" bulbs such as downlighters.

I'd think such as a downlighter without adequate ventilation would shorten
the life of tungsten too? Such LED downlighters are commonly about 5w and
produce very little heat. And unless designed for a special application
the fittings aren't sealed.

It was rather more of a problem with high power CFLs like RO80 style.

Without adequate free air ventilation or a large enough heat-sink the
heat will kill LEDs and LED electronics.

--
*Two many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

Why not simply replace the tube and started with an LED variety?

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

Why not simply replace the tube and started with an LED variety?

I see TLC have recently introduced 6ft replacement LED tubes. Might give
them a try. Have a fitting which was originally T12 and T8 replacements
take much longer to start.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/01/2021 16:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

Why not simply replace the tube and started with an LED variety?

I see TLC have recently introduced 6ft replacement LED tubes. Might give
them a try. Have a fitting which was originally T12 and T8 replacements
take much longer to start.

I was going to say even Toolstation has started stocking a 6ft LED tube
but it's out of stock in most stores:
https://www.toolstation.com/led-glass-tube/p79168

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 01/01/2021 16:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

Why not simply replace the tube and started with an LED variety?

I see TLC have recently introduced 6ft replacement LED tubes. Might give
them a try. Have a fitting which was originally T12 and T8 replacements
take much longer to start.

I was going to say even Toolstation has started stocking a 6ft LED tube
but it's out of stock in most stores:
https://www.toolstation.com/led-glass-tube/p79168

It's a bit of a dichotomy. My workbench lighting was very good with lots
of colour matching Northlight tubes - a mixture of 5 and 6 ft. Old
fittings with starters. And do rather annoy as they no longer start at the
same time - at least two tubes take a couple of minutes.

I've never had any LED where I'm 100% happy with the spectrum. And
thinking it may be better to fit electronic ballasts. Except for the costs.

--
*Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/01/2021 11:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 01/01/2021 16:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that needs
to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS) that
gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it seems
these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern fittings.
Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for years, but I'm
a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail within a year with
occasional use despite being rated for 20,000 hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent tube
replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear of?

Why not simply replace the tube and started with an LED variety?

I see TLC have recently introduced 6ft replacement LED tubes. Might give
them a try. Have a fitting which was originally T12 and T8 replacements
take much longer to start.

I was going to say even Toolstation has started stocking a 6ft LED tube
but it's out of stock in most stores:
https://www.toolstation.com/led-glass-tube/p79168

It's a bit of a dichotomy. My workbench lighting was very good with lots
of colour matching Northlight tubes - a mixture of 5 and 6 ft. Old
fittings with starters. And do rather annoy as they no longer start at the
same time - at least two tubes take a couple of minutes.

I've never had any LED where I'm 100% happy with the spectrum. And
thinking it may be better to fit electronic ballasts. Except for the costs.

I felt the colour is better from a LED tube that some conventional ones.
I presume the Northlight tubes must use unconventional phosphors and
perhaps not be so efficient? I might swap or try alternative starters.
Many tubes fail to strike in cold weather.

Each produces a discontinuous colour spectrum. If that is important then
why not stick to halogen?

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 02/01/2021 11:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 01/01/2021 16:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 30/12/2020 11:20, Caecilius wrote:
I've got a 5 foot T12 fluorescent tube in my utility room that
needs to be replaced. It's a 65W tube (marked F65W / 54-765 / RS)
that gives 4200 lumens when new according to the specification.

I was considering a T8 battern with LED replacement tube, but it
seems these have now been superceeded by integrated LED battern
fittings. Not a problem if the integrated LEDs & driver last for
years, but I'm a bit wary as I've had a few LED candle bulbs fail
within a year with occasional use despite being rated for 20,000
hours.

What's the group's recommended modern option for T12 fluorescent
tube replacement? Any types or brands to look to or to steer clear
of?

Why not simply replace the tube and started with an LED variety?

I see TLC have recently introduced 6ft replacement LED tubes. Might
give them a try. Have a fitting which was originally T12 and T8
replacements take much longer to start.

I was going to say even Toolstation has started stocking a 6ft LED
tube but it's out of stock in most stores:
https://www.toolstation.com/led-glass-tube/p79168

It's a bit of a dichotomy. My workbench lighting was very good with
lots of colour matching Northlight tubes - a mixture of 5 and 6 ft.
Old fittings with starters. And do rather annoy as they no longer
start at the same time - at least two tubes take a couple of minutes.

I've never had any LED where I'm 100% happy with the spectrum. And
thinking it may be better to fit electronic ballasts. Except for the
costs.

I felt the colour is better from a LED tube that some conventional ones.
I presume the Northlight tubes must use unconventional phosphors and
perhaps not be so efficient? I might swap or try alternative starters.
Many tubes fail to strike in cold weather.

Colour matching Northlights are made to do what they say on the box. To
reproduce that type of daylight as closely as possible. They are less
efficent in the level they produce so I used more than most. I have two
twin fittings with reflectors running the length of the bench.

Each produces a discontinuous colour spectrum. If that is important then
why not stick to halogen?

These florries produce very nice shadow free lighting. With as good a
light quality as I want. LEDs are used for TV etc lighting these days so
likely can be pretty good - but really not sure replacement LED tubes are
the same state of the art.

When installed originally, was very happy with the workbench lighting.
Don't want to accept anything inferior 30 years on. ;-)

--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

When installed originally, was very happy with the workbench lighting.
Don't want to accept anything inferior 30 years on.;-)

There are 6500K LED tubes with 95 CRI available, but they seem to be
expensive ($140), only 2-4 foot long and on sale in the USA rather than
the UK, seem to be aimed at art studios not workshops ...

On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 13:43:13 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

These florries produce very nice shadow free lighting. With as good a
light quality as I want. LEDs are used for TV etc lighting these days so
likely can be pretty good - but really not sure replacement LED tubes are
the same state of the art.

That's why I'm interested in those from TLC. 330 deg output (I don't know
how uniform that is) will illuminate the ceiling much the same as FTs.
Trouble is, I use the florries very little so can't justify changing them.
Most are old (I got them just over 31 years ago and they were well-used
then). One is in the shed and the others are in the cold loft; they all
start even when the loft is close to freezing and shed is below.
If they'd just pack up...
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 01/01/2021 14:49, Caecilius wrote:


I'd be interested to know what brands you use.

Many of my panels are generic cheap designs from eBay.
Over the past few years they have become cheaper.
The one in my main living room actually came from B&Q. Chinese - but
with a large metal back-plate to which a driver and bespoke led strip is
fitted giving adequate heat-sinking. The rest of it is thin plastic
which looks more than OK.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 17:10:38 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 01/01/2021 14:49, Caecilius wrote:


I'd be interested to know what brands you use.

Many of my panels are generic cheap designs from eBay.
Over the past few years they have become cheaper.
The one in my main living room actually came from B&Q. Chinese - but
with a large metal back-plate to which a driver and bespoke led strip is
fitted giving adequate heat-sinking. The rest of it is thin plastic
which looks more than OK.

Thanks. I hadn't thought of using cheap eBay panels, but as you say
that's what the sheds are using anyway.

On 2 Jan 2021 at 14:32:35 GMT, "Andy Burns" wrote:

Dave Plowman wrote:

When installed originally, was very happy with the workbench lighting.
Don't want to accept anything inferior 30 years on.;-)

There are 6500K LED tubes with 95 CRI available, but they seem to be
expensive ($140), only 2-4 foot long and on sale in the USA rather than
the UK, seem to be aimed at art studios not workshops ...

I bought an off-the-shelf LED tube from Lidl to replace the kitchen
fluorescent. Aside from an instant start and /slightly/ whiter light I don't
notice any difference.

I think some people are more susceptible to differences real and perceived. My
thing is sound. Sounds that other people don't notice can drive me up the
wall.

--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

When installed originally, was very happy with the workbench lighting.
Don't want to accept anything inferior 30 years on.;-)

There are 6500K LED tubes with 95 CRI available, but they seem to be
expensive ($140), only 2-4 foot long and on sale in the USA rather than
the UK, seem to be aimed at art studios not workshops ...

I'm sure very decent LEDs are around - as I said they've been used in TV
etc lighting for a while. And TC cameras make an odd white balance and
poor CRI far more obvious than the eye, which quickly compensates.

--
*He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless, dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

RJH wrote:

Sounds that other people don't notice can drive me up the wall.

Same hear, I'm trying out some ikea smart lamps, even when they're off,
they're really just in standby, and the internal PSU "sings" at 2kHz
plus a couple of harmonics, if I turn it to 5% brightness then it's silent.

Similar with the TV in standby, these things add up to an annoying
background whine when trying to sleep ...