Folks,

For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler.
As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a
combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about
the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says they
are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have good
reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?

Dave

On 28/12/19 14:28, David Wade wrote:

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?


It's not a combi, so may not be relevant, but I've got an Ideal ICOS. It
was in the house when I bought it 13 years ago and, apart from a new
igniter and occasional service, has been flawless.

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to techie

On 28 Dec 2019 at 14:28:34 GMT, "David Wade" wrote:

Folks,

For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler.
As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a
combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about
the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says they
are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have good
reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?

Dave

Generally OK on a sample of 1 for 7 years (Ideal Logic+ combi) - niggling faults include a poor quality boiler/main inlet connection ('they all do that sir' - I've just nipped it up a couple of times and it's held) and a pressure guage that's just started making a maddening clicking sound. Otherwise hasn't missed a beat.

On noise running, I definitely wouldn't want it in a bedroom - or any living room come to that. Maybe a kitchen diner if it was enclosed. It's noisiest at start/stop - heating is OK. Water is quite noisy. And if you want the water pre-heat, it'll fire up and go through a quite loud cycle of heat/purge/overrun every few hours. Mine's in the kitchen.

TBH, I don't think I'd be happy with any boiler in a bedroom.

On 28/12/2019 14:28:34, David Wade wrote:
Folks,

For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler.
As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a
combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about
the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says they
are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have good
reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?

https://www.quietmark.com/products/h...eating/boilers

It also seems that Ideal Boilers have a reputation for being quiet.

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 14:41:00 +0000, Another Dave
wrote:

On 28/12/19 14:28, David Wade wrote:

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?


It's not a combi, so may not be relevant, but I've got an Ideal ICOS. It
was in the house when I bought it 13 years ago and, apart from a new
igniter and occasional service, has been flawless.

Talking to a heating engineer the other day he didn't seem to be too
impressed with Vaillant.

I think Mums 40+ year old boiler is an Ideal but we also know things
(manufacturing / quality assurance / design) changes over time.

Cheers, T i m

On Saturday, 28 December 2019 14:28:38 UTC, David Wade wrote:
Folks,

For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler.
As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a
combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about
the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says they
are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have good
reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?

Dave

You could look at the which report on boilers. In short the only 2 brands I'd recommended are Worcester Bosch & Vaillant. The rest are too unreliable or lack enough spares etc.

If you needed a cheaper brand, Junkers are made by WB for the German market, or you could get a used boiler.


NT

On 28/12/2019 14:41, Another Dave wrote:
On 28/12/19 14:28, David Wade wrote:

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?


It's not a combi, so may not be relevant, but I've got an Ideal ICOS. It
was in the house when I bought it 13 years ago and, apart from a new
igniter and occasional service, has been flawless.

Another Dave

They used to have a poor reputation but have obviously upped
their game and I have seen a report that now puts them pretty
close to the top for reliability. Plus a long warranty.

On 28 Dec 2019 at 16:30:10 GMT, "Andrew" wrote:

On 28/12/2019 14:41, Another Dave wrote:
On 28/12/19 14:28, David Wade wrote:

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?


It's not a combi, so may not be relevant, but I've got an Ideal ICOS. It
was in the house when I bought it 13 years ago and, apart from a new
igniter and occasional service, has been flawless.

Another Dave

They used to have a poor reputation but have obviously upped
their game and I have seen a report that now puts them pretty
close to the top for reliability. Plus a long warranty.

A number of conditions accompany the warranty, including the need for a 'service' each year. I have a feeling that may have informed the recommendation . . .

T i m posted
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 14:41:00 +0000, Another Dave
wrote:

On 28/12/19 14:28, David Wade wrote:

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?


It's not a combi, so may not be relevant, but I've got an Ideal ICOS. It
was in the house when I bought it 13 years ago and, apart from a new
igniter and occasional service, has been flawless.

Talking to a heating engineer the other day he didn't seem to be too
impressed with Vaillant.

Nor am I. We had one installed a few months ago and it is bloody awful.
The software appears to be rigged to make the thing heat the place up as
slowly as possible, and no amount of fiddling with the settings will
remedy it.

Mind you this probably doesn't affect the OP as he only needs a small
combi, but it does affect me.

--
Evremonde

On 28/12/2019 14:28, David Wade wrote:
Folks,

For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler.
As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a
combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about
the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says they
are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have good
reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.

Do you live on your own?

Do you live with someone likely to have a shower in the middle of the night?

Do you intend to run the central heating overnight? (Hardly necessary if
your house is well insulated.)

--
Max Demian

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 17:16:46 +0000, The Marquis Saint Evremonde
wrote:

T i m posted
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 14:41:00 +0000, Another Dave
wrote:

On 28/12/19 14:28, David Wade wrote:

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?


It's not a combi, so may not be relevant, but I've got an Ideal ICOS. It
was in the house when I bought it 13 years ago and, apart from a new
igniter and occasional service, has been flawless.

Talking to a heating engineer the other day he didn't seem to be too
impressed with Vaillant.

Nor am I.

The worst thing in this case is he suggested he is a Vaillant
registered installer or whatever (I don't know him, it was just in
passing so ...) but I think has just got fed up with all the follow
up work with them.

We had one installed a few months ago and it is bloody awful.
The software appears to be rigged to make the thing heat the place up as
slowly as possible, and no amount of fiddling with the settings will
remedy it.

Assuming it's on full, should it just stay like that till close to the
target temperature? Or do they do this thing where they 'learn' and
say actually turn on later because they know they can be up to temp in
time (even if that can't in reality)? [1]

Mind you this probably doesn't affect the OP as he only needs a small
combi, but it does affect me.

It might if there is any crossover on the software across models?

Cheers, T i m

[1] We still have a couple of 'smart' storage rads here that wait till
the end of the E7 period before re-charging and determining that
charge on their existing internal temperature compared with that of
the room. Seemed to work fairly well, allowing for dramatic changes in
the outside temperature (especially it getting colder).

thescullster wrote:

Don't install thermostats with predictive programming, they can fire
a boiler at a time of their own pleasing.

Err, that's the *point* of them ... extra cold morning, stat turns on
heating earlier so it's warm by your programmed "wake" time ...

Max Demian Wrote in message:
On 28/12/2019 14:28, David Wade wrote: Folks, For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler. As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says they are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have good reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.Do you live on your own?Do you live with someone likely to have a shower in the middle of the night?Do you intend to run the central heating overnight? (Hardly necessary if your house is well insulated.)-- Max Demian

What he said plus..... Don't install thermostats with predictive
programming, they can fire a boiler at a time of their own
pleasing.

Phil
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 28/12/2019 18:12, Max Demian wrote:
On 28/12/2019 14:28, David Wade wrote:
Folks,

For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler.
As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a
combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about
the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says
they are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have
good reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.

Do you live on your own?

Do you live with someone likely to have a shower in the middle of the
night?

Do you intend to run the central heating overnight? (Hardly necessary if
your house is well insulated.)


Good questions. I live in a 1910 end terrace and despite additional
insulation over the years it still looses heat rapidly and the heating
is kept on over night.

The bedroom in question is a "spare room" so I could turn the heating
off when its in use....

Dave

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 15:05:39 +0000 (UTC), RJH wrote:

On noise running, I definitely wouldn't want it in a bedroom - or
any living room come to that. Maybe a kitchen diner if it was
enclosed. It's noisiest at start/stop - heating is OK. Water is
quite noisy. And if you want the water pre-heat, it'll fire up
and go through a quite loud cycle of heat/purge/overrun every few
hours. Mine's in the kitchen.

TBH, I don't think I'd be happy with any boiler in a bedroom.

Our W-B combi boiler is spec'd at fairly low noise level, but a lot
of the noise at startup is pipes warming up and creaking. You could
always turn the central heating off till needed when you wake up. I
wouldn't have another combi though, the controller often can't
decide wether to supply hot or cold running water for some time
before settling down, wasting several litres in the process. The
W-B support people don't recognise a control problem, they just
repeat the mantra of flushing the cold water out before you receive
hot water at the tap. A separate hot water cylinder obviously needs
more space, but wastes less water waiting for the shower to run
hot.

The supplied thermostat/controller is pretty crap too.

On 29 Dec 2019 at 12:16:06 GMT, "mechanic" wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 15:05:39 +0000 (UTC), RJH wrote:

On noise running, I definitely wouldn't want it in a bedroom - or
any living room come to that. Maybe a kitchen diner if it was
enclosed. It's noisiest at start/stop - heating is OK. Water is
quite noisy. And if you want the water pre-heat, it'll fire up
and go through a quite loud cycle of heat/purge/overrun every few
hours. Mine's in the kitchen.

TBH, I don't think I'd be happy with any boiler in a bedroom.

Our W-B combi boiler is spec'd at fairly low noise level, but a lot
of the noise at startup is pipes warming up and creaking. You could
always turn the central heating off till needed when you wake up. I
wouldn't have another combi though, the controller often can't
decide wether to supply hot or cold running water for some time
before settling down, wasting several litres in the process. The
W-B support people don't recognise a control problem, they just
repeat the mantra of flushing the cold water out before you receive
hot water at the tap. A separate hot water cylinder obviously needs
more space, but wastes less water waiting for the shower to run
hot.

Well, from cold the Ideal takes a good minute to feed a steady supply of hot water. But when it arrives it's good enough to provide a very good shower. But point taken on the water waste, which can be offset to a small extent by using the pre-heat. Which in turn wastes gas.



The supplied thermostat/controller is pretty crap too.

Mine didn't come with one - added my own, which works fine (Hive).

On 29/12/2019 13:58, RJH wrote:
On 29 Dec 2019 at 12:16:06 GMT, "mechanic" wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 15:05:39 +0000 (UTC), RJH wrote:

On noise running, I definitely wouldn't want it in a bedroom - or
any living room come to that. Maybe a kitchen diner if it was
enclosed. It's noisiest at start/stop - heating is OK. Water is
quite noisy. And if you want the water pre-heat, it'll fire up
and go through a quite loud cycle of heat/purge/overrun every few
hours. Mine's in the kitchen.
TBH, I don't think I'd be happy with any boiler in a bedroom.

Our W-B combi boiler is spec'd at fairly low noise level, but a lot
of the noise at startup is pipes warming up and creaking. You could
always turn the central heating off till needed when you wake up. I
wouldn't have another combi though, the controller often can't
decide wether to supply hot or cold running water for some time
before settling down, wasting several litres in the process. The
W-B support people don't recognise a control problem, they just
repeat the mantra of flushing the cold water out before you receive
hot water at the tap. A separate hot water cylinder obviously needs
more space, but wastes less water waiting for the shower to run
hot.

Well, from cold the Ideal takes a good minute to feed a steady supply of
hot water. But when it arrives it's good enough to provide a very good
shower. But point taken on the water waste, which can be offset to a
small extent by using the pre-heat. Which in turn wastes gas.



The supplied thermostat/controller is pretty crap too.

Mine didn't come with one - added my own, which works fine (Hive).

I was intending to retain my Drayton Wiser system...

On 29/12/2019 12:16:06, mechanic wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 15:05:39 +0000 (UTC), RJH wrote:

On noise running, I definitely wouldn't want it in a bedroom - or
any living room come to that. Maybe a kitchen diner if it was
enclosed. It's noisiest at start/stop - heating is OK. Water is
quite noisy. And if you want the water pre-heat, it'll fire up
and go through a quite loud cycle of heat/purge/overrun every few
hours. Mine's in the kitchen.

TBH, I don't think I'd be happy with any boiler in a bedroom.

Our W-B combi boiler is spec'd at fairly low noise level, but a lot
of the noise at startup is pipes warming up and creaking. You could
always turn the central heating off till needed when you wake up. I
wouldn't have another combi though, the controller often can't
decide wether to supply hot or cold running water for some time
before settling down, wasting several litres in the process. The
W-B support people don't recognise a control problem, they just
repeat the mantra of flushing the cold water out before you receive
hot water at the tap. A separate hot water cylinder obviously needs
more space, but wastes less water waiting for the shower to run
hot.

The supplied thermostat/controller is pretty crap too.

I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

In article ,
David Wade wrote:
For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler.
As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a
combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about
the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says they
are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have good
reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.

Your plumber will likely recommend what is easy for him to get and fit.
And gives the best profit. He's unlikely to be concerned about how long it
will last - outside a reasonable warranty period.

I fitted my own and went for a Viessmann system boiler. 2006. Still
working perfectly, and only the one breakdown when a hose inside the unit
split, taking out the gas valve, from the dripping water. Spares were easy
to source online and arrived the next day.

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

Then you should have had night store electric heating too. ;-)

--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29/12/2019 14:33:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

Then you should have had night store electric heating too. ;-)

Something I detest. I have never known anyone to experience gas CH have
a good word for night storage radiators.

A gas system boiler without any pumps or water valves is as simple as
you can get.

Apart from an economy 7 heat store boiler of course. But they tend to be
quite big.

On 29/12/2019 12:16, mechanic wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 15:05:39 +0000 (UTC), RJH wrote:

On noise running, I definitely wouldn't want it in a bedroom - or
any living room come to that. Maybe a kitchen diner if it was
enclosed. It's noisiest at start/stop - heating is OK. Water is
quite noisy. And if you want the water pre-heat, it'll fire up
and go through a quite loud cycle of heat/purge/overrun every few
hours. Mine's in the kitchen.

TBH, I don't think I'd be happy with any boiler in a bedroom.

Our W-B combi boiler is spec'd at fairly low noise level, but a lot
of the noise at startup is pipes warming up and creaking. You could
always turn the central heating off till needed when you wake up. I
wouldn't have another combi though, the controller often can't
decide wether to supply hot or cold running water for some time
before settling down, wasting several litres in the process. The
W-B support people don't recognise a control problem, they just
repeat the mantra of flushing the cold water out before you receive
hot water at the tap. A separate hot water cylinder obviously needs
more space, but wastes less water waiting for the shower to run
hot.

My Ideal Logic Combi 24 not only takes some time to deliver hot water
for washing up; it also frequently goes cold during a shower (and
filling the washing up bowl), before going hot again. I haven't managed
to persuade anyone (independent gas engineer or Ideal engineer) that
there is a problem. They just 'replace something' and leave. This is the
problem with intermittent/partial (rather than complete) failure.

--
Max Demian

On 28/12/2019 14:28, David Wade wrote:
Folks,

For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler.
As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a
combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about
the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says they
are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have good
reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?

I fitted a 35kW Ideal ISAR at a previous house. The boilers had not been
on the market that long so there was not much reliability data to go on
(however it did fit the small space available, and was available with
the 35kW output that I would suggest is the minimum sensible for a
family home - hence why I took a punt). In use it was at the time the
best combi I had used. I had one fault - a failed DHW temp sensor in the
four years or so I owned it. Reports suggest that the new owners did
have additional problems with it and ditched it some years later.

The build quality was actually fairly good and the design layout /
serviceability fairly good (although not in the Vaillant league). The
weak point at the time (so it turns out) was the quality of the
electronics. ITRC Geoff at CET reporting very large numbers of PCB
failures on this range. I don't know if that has changed in recent times.

Noise wise, it was not bad - better that the CH only boiler it replaced,
but not as quiet as my current Vaillant system boiler. (not sure I would
want even that in a bedroom though)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 29/12/2019 12:16, mechanic wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 15:05:39 +0000 (UTC), RJH wrote:

On noise running, I definitely wouldn't want it in a bedroom - or
any living room come to that. Maybe a kitchen diner if it was
enclosed. It's noisiest at start/stop - heating is OK. Water is
quite noisy. And if you want the water pre-heat, it'll fire up
and go through a quite loud cycle of heat/purge/overrun every few
hours. Mine's in the kitchen.

TBH, I don't think I'd be happy with any boiler in a bedroom.

Our W-B combi boiler is spec'd at fairly low noise level, but a lot
of the noise at startup is pipes warming up and creaking. You could

I have noticed that weather compensation reduces that noise quite a bit
most of the time. I can guestimate the outside temp early in the morning
when waking up just by listening to how much pipe expansion is going on.
Its noticeable more "clanky" on very cold days when the flow temp is higher.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 29/12/2019 14:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 29/12/2019 14:33:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Fredxx wrote:
I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

Then you should have had night store electric heating too. ;-)

Something I detest. I have never known anyone to experience gas CH have
a good word for night storage radiators.

They're all right if you know how warm it's going to be the following
day and you want to heat the place 24 hours. Maybe the modern storage
heaters are better, but I found it hard to control the output of stored
heat.

A gas system boiler without any pumps or water valves is as simple as
you can get.

No pumps or valves? They must be quite complicated inside.

Apart from an economy 7 heat store boiler of course. But they tend to be
quite big.

What's one of them? I thought you just had a cylinder with an off-peak
immersion at the bottom and a peak one at the top, fed by a cold water tank.

--
Max Demian

On 28/12/2019 17:16, The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:
T i m posted
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 14:41:00 +0000, Another Dave
wrote:

On 28/12/19 14:28, David Wade wrote:

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?


It's not a combi, so may not be relevant, but I've got an Ideal ICOS. It
was in the house when I bought it 13 years ago and, apart from a new
igniter and occasional service, has been flawless.

Talking to a heating engineer the other day he didn't seem to be too
impressed with Vaillant.

Nor am I. We had one installed a few months ago and it is bloody awful.
The software appears to be rigged to make the thing heat the place up as
slowly as possible, and no amount of fiddling with the settings will
remedy it.

In which case, it sounds like the installer has not set it up correctly.
There is no reason it should take any longer to heat the place than any
other boiler of comparable power.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 29/12/2019 15:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 29/12/2019 14:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 29/12/2019 14:33:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Fredxx wrote:
I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

Then you should have had night store electric heating too. ;-)

Something I detest. I have never known anyone to experience gas CH
have a good word for night storage radiators.

They're all right if you know how warm it's going to be the following
day and you want to heat the place 24 hours. Maybe the modern storage
heaters are better, but I found it hard to control the output of stored
heat.

A gas system boiler without any pumps or water valves is as simple as
you can get.

No pumps or valves? They must be quite complicated inside.

Apart from an economy 7 heat store boiler of course. But they tend to
be quite big.

What's one of them? I thought you just had a cylinder with an off-peak
immersion at the bottom and a peak one at the top, fed by a cold water
tank.


Best of all if you have good insulation is an electric boiler feeding a
wet rad system, and hot water tank heated with immersion on economy 7.
Most of our morning CH is on during economy 7 time anyway so reduces cost.
We don't have gas, but even if we did I think I would still opt for all
electric heating.
Very quiet, very simple, very low maintenance, very easy to fit.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2019 14:33:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

Then you should have had night store electric heating too. ;-)

Something I detest. I have never known anyone to experience gas CH have a
good word for night storage radiators.

A gas system boiler without any pumps or water valves is as simple as you
can get.

A gas air heater for the entire house is much simpler again.

Apart from an economy 7 heat store boiler of course. But they tend to be
quite big.

T i m posted
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 17:16:46 +0000, The Marquis Saint Evremonde
wrote:

We had one installed a few months ago and it is bloody awful.
The software appears to be rigged to make the thing heat the place up as
slowly as possible, and no amount of fiddling with the settings will
remedy it.

Assuming it's on full,

It's never on full. A few seconds after it ignites after a new call for
heat, the burner output drops to minimum or near-minimum, and stays
there for at least half an hour, sometimes more. The flow water
temperature hangs around at 35-40 all this time, so the rads never get
properly hot.

should it just stay like that till close to the
target temperature?

It doesn't know what the target *room* temperature is, only whether it's
calling for heat or not. It never gets anywhere near the target *flow*
temperture, which I have set at 65degC.

Or do they do this thing where they 'learn' and
say actually turn on later because they know they can be up to temp in
time (even if that can't in reality)? [1]


Mind you this probably doesn't affect the OP as he only needs a small
combi, but it does affect me.

It might if there is any crossover on the software across models?

Unlikely, I think; if a combi did what ours does it would be completely
unmarketable.

--
Evremonde

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 03:07:34 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

troll****

03:07??? So you've been up and trolling for half an hour already! Are you
going to make it ALL NIGHT again, you abnormal senile cretin? Of COURSE, you
are! LOL

--
Keema Nam addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You are now exposed as a liar, as well as an ignorant troll."
"MID: .com"

On 29/12/2019 16:07:34, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2019 14:33:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Fredxx wrote:
I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

Then you should have had night store electric heating too. ;-)

Something I detest. I have never known anyone to experience gas CH
have a good word for night storage radiators.

A gas system boiler without any pumps or water valves is as simple as
you can get.

A gas air heater for the entire house is much simpler again.

You might thinks so and all the rage 40 years ago. All have been pulled
out for wet systems or alternatives.

If you do want air heating, then heat pump is the conventional way.

John Rumm posted
On 28/12/2019 17:16, The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:
T i m posted
Talking to a heating engineer the other day he didn't seem to be too
impressed with Vaillant.
Nor am I. We had one installed a few months ago and it is bloody
awful. The software appears to be rigged to make the thing heat the
place up as slowly as possible, and no amount of fiddling with the
settings will remedy it.

In which case, it sounds like the installer has not set it up
correctly. There is no reason it should take any longer to heat the
place than any other boiler of comparable power.

Only that the design makes it do so, apparently regardless of any of the
d-register settings. A bit of googling shows that this is a very common
complaint about Ecotec 600 series models.

--
Evremonde

On 29/12/2019 15:20:48, Max Demian wrote:
On 29/12/2019 14:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 29/12/2019 14:33:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Fredxx wrote:
I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

Then you should have had night store electric heating too. ;-)

Something I detest. I have never known anyone to experience gas CH
have a good word for night storage radiators.

They're all right if you know how warm it's going to be the following
day and you want to heat the place 24 hours. Maybe the modern storage
heaters are better, but I found it hard to control the output of stored
heat.

A gas system boiler without any pumps or water valves is as simple as
you can get.

No pumps or valves? They must be quite complicated inside.

A simple system boiler has a variable speed fan and a modulating gas
valve. No other moving parts.

Apart from an economy 7 heat store boiler of course. But they tend to
be quite big.

What's one of them? I thought you just had a cylinder with an off-peak
immersion at the bottom and a peak one at the top, fed by a cold water
tank.

Yes it is effectively a very big cylinder with a heat exchanger and
mixing valves.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 14:14:45 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

40kW gas burner in the combi - unlikely to find that power in an
electric shower.

On 29/12/2019 15:23, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/12/2019 17:16, The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:
T i m posted
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 14:41:00 +0000, Another Dave
wrote:

On 28/12/19 14:28, David Wade wrote:

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of
them?


It's not a combi, so may not be relevant, but I've got an Ideal
ICOS. It
was in the house when I bought it 13 years ago and, apart from a new
igniter and occasional service, has been flawless.

Talking to a heating engineer the other day he didn't seem to be too
impressed with Vaillant.

Nor am I. We had one installed a few months ago and it is bloody
awful. The software appears to be rigged to make the thing heat the
place up as slowly as possible, and no amount of fiddling with the
settings will remedy it.

In which case, it sounds like the installer has not set it up correctly.
There is no reason it should take any longer to heat the place than any
other boiler of comparable power.



That would be my guess too. Given that both "Which" and regular posters
here tend to put Vaillant and Worcester Bosch at the top of the pile
particularly for hardware.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2019 16:07:34, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2019 14:33:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
I used an undersink water heater to provide sufficient hot water for
washing up. Electric shower negates any need for a combi.

Sometimes the simplest systems are the best.

Then you should have had night store electric heating too. ;-)

Something I detest. I have never known anyone to experience gas CH have
a good word for night storage radiators.

A gas system boiler without any pumps or water valves is as simple as
you can get.

A gas air heater for the entire house is much simpler again.

You might thinks so

I know so and thats still how we and the USA
and Canada and much of europe does it today.

and the rage 40 years ago. All have been
pulled out for wet systems or alternatives.

Not in commercial building they havent.

If you do want air heating, then heat pump is the conventional way.

But is nothing like as simple as gas air heating.

On 29/12/2019 18:27, newshound wrote:
On 29/12/2019 15:23, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/12/2019 17:16, The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:
T i m posted
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 14:41:00 +0000, Another Dave
wrote:

On 28/12/19 14:28, David Wade wrote:

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of
them?


It's not a combi, so may not be relevant, but I've got an Ideal
ICOS. It
was in the house when I bought it 13 years ago and, apart from a new
igniter and occasional service, has been flawless.

Talking to a heating engineer the other day he didn't seem to be too
impressed with Vaillant.

Nor am I. We had one installed a few months ago and it is bloody
awful. The software appears to be rigged to make the thing heat the
place up as slowly as possible, and no amount of fiddling with the
settings will remedy it.

In which case, it sounds like the installer has not set it up
correctly. There is no reason it should take any longer to heat the
place than any other boiler of comparable power.



That would be my guess too. Given that both "Which" and regular posters
here tend to put Vaillant and Worcester Bosch at the top of the pile
particularly for hardware.

I found the criteria Which use is somewhat unclear. They also don't
appear to have actually tested ANY boilers. They simply quote "Brand
Reliability" so how reliable a brand is overall. Of the Ideal they say...

Pros
Good reliability record and customers and engineers are fond of the brand.

Cons
No significant cons.


I also know when I read some of the other reviews(e.g. TVs) there are
aspects of their testing which strikes of "Political Correctness". I
have an LG which TV which is rated a "best buy" but it has a really
annoying "feature" where when you open the program guide the TV channel
stops playing instead of going to small screen like my LG... (which has
other grumbles)...


Dave

On 29/12/2019 16:42, The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:
John Rumm posted
On 28/12/2019 17:16, The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:
T i m posted
Talking to a heating engineer the other day he didn't seem to be too
impressed with Vaillant.
Â*Nor am I. We had one installed a few months ago and it is bloody
awful.Â* The software appears to be rigged to make the thing heat the
place up asÂ* slowly as possible, and no amount of fiddling with the
settings willÂ* remedy it.

In which case, it sounds like the installer has not set it up
correctly. There is no reason it should take any longer to heat the
place than any other boiler of comparable power.

Only that the design makes it do so,

That sounds unlikely[1], and more to the point does not concur with my
experience, I have had no problem with my 624 bringing 21 rads up to
flow temperature quickly and warming the house as required.

apparently regardless of any of the
d-register settings. A bit of googling shows that this is a very common
complaint about Ecotec 600 series models.

That I can believe - but that does not make it the boiler's fault.

However without far more information on the actual installation and the
controls in use, probably not much else can be said at this point.

[1] Worth keeping in mind though that these are boilers have
sophisticated control systems and a vast array of installation options -
so its not uncommon to get a setup that does not behave as you would
expect.



--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/12/2019 14:28, David Wade wrote:
Folks,

For various reasons, I am reluctantly considering replacing my boiler.
As I only have a single shower/bath it looks like its going to be a
combi, but its going to have to go in a bedroom so I was worried about
the noise. My plumber has recommended an "Ideal" boiler as he says they
are good boilers and have a long guarantee. They seem to have good
reports on reliability and usability, and appear to be quiet.

Does any one have an Ideal Boiler and if so what do they think of them?

Dave

Dumb question... can you not fit the new one in the same place as the old?

John Rumm posted
On 29/12/2019 16:42, The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:
John Rumm posted
On 28/12/2019 17:16, The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:
T i m posted
Talking to a heating engineer the other day he didn't seem to be too
impressed with Vaillant.
*Nor am I. We had one installed a few months ago and it is bloody
awful.* The software appears to be rigged to make the thing heat the
place up as* slowly as possible, and no amount of fiddling with the
settings will* remedy it.

In which case, it sounds like the installer has not set it up
correctly. There is no reason it should take any longer to heat the
place than any other boiler of comparable power.
Only that the design makes it do so,

That sounds unlikely[1], and more to the point does not concur with my
experience, I have had no problem with my 624 bringing 21 rads up to
flow temperature quickly and warming the house as required.

How did you manage it, then? All advice gratefully received.

The installer left the boiler on factory default settings. I don't blame
him. The manual is almost completely incomprehensible to me, and I've
got an electronics engineering degree.

apparently regardless of any of the d-register settings. A bit of
googling shows that this is a very common complaint about Ecotec 600
series models.

That I can believe - but that does not make it the boiler's fault.

It does make it Vaillant's fault, though. My previous boiler (Potterton
Kingfisher, basic analogue controls, no software) worked straight out of
the box. Heated the place - six-bedroom Victorian detached house - in
minutes.

However without far more information on the actual installation and the
controls in use, probably not much else can be said at this point.

I have 14 rads all on the same circuit, controlled by a single on/off
room thermostat. Separate 2-way valves for CH and HW. Towel rad
connected to the bypass circuit. Completely standard.

I've already tried most of the advice available on the Web re adjusting
d-registers. It didn't work.

--
Evremonde