On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they can
be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.

On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.

I didn't think the article is in dispute.

They are a list that remainers typically accuse Brexiters of thinking
rather than looking at the real picture of why people voted to leave.

T i m wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 11:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 21/09/2019 10:58, Spike wrote:
On 18/09/2019 09:36, T i m wrote:

We weren't ready
because the majority (the 2/3rds that didn't vote to Leave) didn't
have a reason to.

What a silly argument. By the same token 2/3rds didn't vote for Remain.


I am really worried about remoaners.

We are more worried about you. ;-(

No, you are worried about your selfish views not being listen shared by
others.

The result of the Vote wasnt to your liking and now you are acting like
spoilt brat with his fingers in his ears shouting his demands.



First of all I thought they were simply venal trolls, but I am coming to
reaslise that they are in complete and utter denial: They have swallowed
project fear hook line and sinker, and are really genuinely scared and
in utter denial because they not only believe it, but believe that
politicians will reverse it. Because it is 'wrong'

Correct, but not because we believe in any hype or spin, put out by
the Brexiteers but because we haven't seen anything yet that justifies
the whole clusterfcuk to 'most people'.

Your failure to absorb the available information, or more exactly your
refusal, isnt anyone elses responsibility but your own.



Brexit was the answer to the question that few were asking and became
an answer by default, not because it was right or sensible.


Just because you dont like it doesnt make it wrong.

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.


--
€œA leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
€œWe did this ourselves.€�

ۥ Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

On 22/09/2019 02:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.

I didn't think the article is in dispute.

They are a list that remainers typically accuse Brexiters of thinking
rather than looking at the real picture of why people voted to leave.

It is in short a list of reasons why *remnainers* would have voted to
leave, if they had.

like 'they were lied to'

Remoaners have been lied to all their lives. Leavers just 'woke' up...


--
Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 22/09/2019 00:47, T i m wrote:
On 21 Sep 2019 15:06:30 +0000, Spike wrote:
On 21/09/2019 10:39, T i m wrote:
On 21 Sep 2019 09:58:38 +0000, Spike wrote:
On 18/09/2019 09:36, T i m wrote:

We weren't ready because the majority (the 2/3rds that didn't vote to
Leave) didn't have a reason to.

What a silly argument.

Only if you aren't looking at it from the bigger picture.

And that's a silly argument as well.

In your opinion of course ... and you are?

Perhaps you'd care to describe this 'bigger picture' that you have
suddenly introduced to deflect attention from your previous silly argument.

By the same token 2/3rds didn't vote for Remain.

But remaining is what we were doing already so many wouldn't see the
point of voting for what they already had?

'Hands up who wants an ice cream' is what the actual question should
have been as only those who *want* such would then respond.

So you're saying that the question in the second referendum should have
been 'Who wants to Remain?'

What second referendum?

The one that followed the first referendum.

That's even sillier than your previous argument.

Only because you don't understand the position. But that's fine.

You haven't explained any such thing as a 'position', so there is
nothing to 'understand'

What such a question doesn't cover is those who might prefer an ice
lolly or just a cold drink.

Part of managing democracy is asking the right questions to the right
people and ensuring enough of them agree to any *change* that doesn't
have a very reasonable predicted outcome for 'most people'.

Is it?

Of course.

Christ on a bike. Who are 'the right people'?

MP's have a duty of care to ensure we don't hurt ourselves, like if
50%+1 want crocodiles in all local swimming pools.

MPs have a duty to implement the voters choice, not some made-up fantasy
of yours.

Nope, BS. Shame you actually believe yourself.

What a strange world-view you have - we can vote, but only if we are
'the right people' who have been asked 'the right questions' and
therefore 'ensuring' any change beforehand. That sounds remarkably like
the Soviet system.

We were going along a road that whilst may have had a few bends, was
generally straight and we all had a reasonable idea about what
tomorrow would be like.

Then, a tiny minority of people made the statement that if we turned
of that road, 90 degrees, we would all have better lives, without
anyone actually knowing if that was true or even likely. In fact, some
scouts that looked suggested that it might be a touch of the grass
being greener and could actually just be weed on a stagnant ford.

So, how many rules, regulations, directives, and other imperatives have
been imposed on the UK by the EU since the second referendum vote?

Pass ... but none that have affected 'most people' enough to even have
them on their radar and certainly not enough to lose loads of money
over.

You don't know what has been imposed on you, but can say that 'none' has
affected anyone and no-one has lost shedloads of money?

Laughable. The current emissions/global warming.climate change agenda
has been foisted on us at least in part by the EU, That's affecting
everyone negatively and costing them loads of cash. Have you been asleep
these past few years?

Did *you* see them all coming?

I'm not the one predicting the future, it's the Brexiteers.

No, quite the opposite. You're avoiding the future by sticking your head
in a bucket.

Do you always put forward such silly arguments?

Why are you so selfish?

Why are you so dim? Aren't you one of 'the right people'?

Cheers, T i m



--
Spike

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.
Throwing balls into jars in a firground for instance got you a stuffed
toy. Not a lot of use really but it didn't involve you losing your
rights, losing your right to be represented by parliament on the whim
of a lying unelected dictator.

Winning didn't involve losing trade agreements that a considerable
amount of the workforce depended on for jobs.

Leave won nothing. Leave gave away their rights, their democracy and
their credibility in the world.

If winning involves only a fraction of the Yellowhammer outcome,
Gamblers anonymous must be entirely populated by winners.

AB

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.
Throwing balls into jars in a firground for instance got you a stuffed
toy. Not a lot of use really but it didn't involve you losing your
rights, losing your right to be represented by parliament on the whim
of a lying unelected dictator.

Winning didn't involve losing trade agreements that a considerable
amount of the workforce depended on for jobs.

Leave won nothing. Leave gave away their rights, their democracy and
their credibility in the world.

If winning involves only a fraction of the Yellowhammer outcome,
Gamblers anonymous must be entirely populated by winners.

AB


That is a very selfish attitude.

However, if you must see some 'win', then how about the no longer being
associated with the duplicitous EU?

In article ,
Spike wrote:
On 18/09/2019 09:36, T i m wrote:

We weren't ready
because the majority (the 2/3rds that didn't vote to Leave) didn't
have a reason to.

What a silly argument. By the same token 2/3rds didn't vote for Remain.

Those who voted remain or abstained knew exactly what they were voting
for. The status quo. The third who voted leave can't even agree among
themselves what this means now. So surely fair to assume many voted on
what the leave campaign promised them? And since so few of those promises
seem attainable in the light of experience, how can you know how they'd
vote now?

--
*Sorry, I don't date outside my species.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am really worried about remoaners.

That's progress, then. A first for a Brexiteer such as yourself. Thinking
of others.

First of all I thought they were simply venal trolls, but I am coming to
reaslise that they are in complete and utter denial: They have swallowed
project fear hook line and sinker, and are really genuinely scared and
in utter denial because they not only believe it, but believe that
politicians will reverse it. Because it is 'wrong'

You think your crystal ball better than any other? But you've proved this
not to be so. On numerous occasions.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Even when winning, my immediate reaction to the win would probably be
dissapointment that I didn't stake more.

One has not even been tempted to play with my Euro and stirling
holdings.
Unlike the Tories, I see gamblers of currencies as leeches. Although
Soros did manage to expose how useless the Tories were by doing just
that, becoming a major leech.

Johnson and Moggs traitorous friends are lining up to do the same you
know, or were you not aware?


AB

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:23:33 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.
Throwing balls into jars in a firground for instance got you a stuffed
toy. Not a lot of use really but it didn't involve you losing your
rights, losing your right to be represented by parliament on the whim
of a lying unelected dictator.

Winning didn't involve losing trade agreements that a considerable
amount of the workforce depended on for jobs.

Leave won nothing. Leave gave away their rights, their democracy and
their credibility in the world.

If winning involves only a fraction of the Yellowhammer outcome,
Gamblers anonymous must be entirely populated by winners.

AB


That is a very selfish attitude.

However, if you must see some 'win', then how about the no longer being
associated with the duplicitous EU?

Actually I am still associated with the EU. Out of choice I might add.
The EU worked well for me and most other people in the British isles,
so what you suggest might be a win, I see as a loss.

The paltry pathetic offerings provided in place of what I once had are
an insult.

Duty free and a blue passport??

I often travel outside Europe, the duty free isn't worth the effort.
It was more satifying to get my Jamesons, Chateuneuf and Laphroig from
Asda when I got home. As for the blue passport, I tried to get a
refund for my British tat, but the shysters wouldn't play ball. If you
look at the small print the security chip has no warranty, so it's
£70-00 for a replacement if that goes. It does go frequently too.

Of course I do have a proper EU passport now, which at least provides
me with some self respect crossing borders.


Anyway, why is the EU duplicious? I would never accuse them of that.
The tory government yes , many times over. You have a right wing press
in the UK that apart from being basically idiot fodder, hushes the
truth up if it isn't promoting the tories.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...then-raised-it

AB

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 14:03:42 +0000 (UTC), Brian Reay
wrote:

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.



The Remainers keep telling us what the Brexiteers (supposedly) think, so
why do you suddenly need to ask?

Perhaps the Remainers have come to their senses and realised just how
arrogant and stupid they look.

It does not bode well for the UK at all then does it?

They truly are stupid if they assume any leave voter with less than a
million can think.

As I have often said, the combination of genetics and a poor
educational system leaves the UK out on a limb.

AB

On 22/09/2019 17:14, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Likewise, where the winnings are less than the money you put in. I think
the National lottery payout is around 30%.

But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

On 22/09/2019 17:52, Fredxx wrote:
But never taking a gambol is different.

Ah! Look at how happy and gay the gambolling girls are feeling, in their
summer dresses

Look how happy and gay the gambolling boys are, feeling in their summer
dresses.


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On 22/09/2019 17:29, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:23:33 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.
Throwing balls into jars in a firground for instance got you a stuffed
toy. Not a lot of use really but it didn't involve you losing your
rights, losing your right to be represented by parliament on the whim
of a lying unelected dictator.

Winning didn't involve losing trade agreements that a considerable
amount of the workforce depended on for jobs.

Leave won nothing. Leave gave away their rights, their democracy and
their credibility in the world.

If winning involves only a fraction of the Yellowhammer outcome,
Gamblers anonymous must be entirely populated by winners.

AB


That is a very selfish attitude.

However, if you must see some 'win', then how about the no longer being
associated with the duplicitous EU?

Actually I am still associated with the EU. Out of choice I might add.
The EU worked well for me and most other people in the British isles,
so what you suggest might be a win, I see as a loss.

The paltry pathetic offerings provided in place of what I once had are
an insult.

Duty free and a blue passport??


Funny, I didn't mention either passports or Duty Free.

I often travel outside Europe, the duty free isn't worth the effort.

You seem to think it is significant, you mentioned.

It was more satifying to get my Jamesons, Chateuneuf and Laphroig from
Asda when I got home. As for the blue passport, I tried to get a
refund for my British tat, but the shysters wouldn't play ball. If you
look at the small print the security chip has no warranty, so it's
£70-00 for a replacement if that goes. It does go frequently too.

Of course I do have a proper EU passport now, which at least provides
me with some self respect crossing borders.

Clearly not, you seem to need to convince yourself by telling use about it.

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 17:52:43 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:14, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Likewise, where the winnings are less than the money you put in. I think
the National lottery payout is around 30%.

But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

AB

On 22/09/2019 19:17, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 17:52:43 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:14, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Likewise, where the winnings are less than the money you put in. I think
the National lottery payout is around 30%.

But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

That doesn't surprise me. I said you were boring.

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 18:18:32 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:29, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:23:33 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.
Throwing balls into jars in a firground for instance got you a stuffed
toy. Not a lot of use really but it didn't involve you losing your
rights, losing your right to be represented by parliament on the whim
of a lying unelected dictator.

Winning didn't involve losing trade agreements that a considerable
amount of the workforce depended on for jobs.

Leave won nothing. Leave gave away their rights, their democracy and
their credibility in the world.

If winning involves only a fraction of the Yellowhammer outcome,
Gamblers anonymous must be entirely populated by winners.

AB


That is a very selfish attitude.

However, if you must see some 'win', then how about the no longer being
associated with the duplicitous EU?

Actually I am still associated with the EU. Out of choice I might add.
The EU worked well for me and most other people in the British isles,
so what you suggest might be a win, I see as a loss.

The paltry pathetic offerings provided in place of what I once had are
an insult.

Duty free and a blue passport??


Funny, I didn't mention either passports or Duty Free.

You stated a win being disassociated from the EU. I do not see it as a
win for any normal person. Those trying to fiddle tax are in a
different situation and the EU is not for them.

So for the average "Joe" in the UK, his "win" is a blue passport and
the ability to buy duty free.

The blue passport has no value and isn't made in the UK anyway. It
could have been blue if "Joe" felt strongly enough to ask for one.

Duty free always was a ripoff, with most vendors trying to optimise
profit in place of the duty anyway. Guess what, the fantastic "Duty
Free" win is another government con. They apply the duty initially, so
they are giving away nothing.

As I said, the UK educational system was never up to much.

I often travel outside Europe, the duty free isn't worth the effort.

You seem to think it is significant, you mentioned.

It was more satifying to get my Jamesons, Chateuneuf and Laphroig from
Asda when I got home. As for the blue passport, I tried to get a
refund for my British tat, but the shysters wouldn't play ball. If you
look at the small print the security chip has no warranty, so it's
£70-00 for a replacement if that goes. It does go frequently too.

Of course I do have a proper EU passport now, which at least provides
me with some self respect crossing borders.

Clearly not, you seem to need to convince yourself by telling use about it.


Actually I did get several comments when flying into Cork at the
outset of Brexit. It was disbelief then and it is pity now. The only
other expression is of concern over the impact on trade.

With the whole of the EU to trade with in a frictionless manner, I do
not think the UK's departure will be a problem for long.

AB

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 19:26:30 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:17, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 17:52:43 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:14, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Likewise, where the winnings are less than the money you put in. I think
the National lottery payout is around 30%.

But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

That doesn't surprise me. I said you were boring.

Wrong again. You are thinking of a mechanical Engineer.

AB

On 22/09/2019 19:30, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 18:18:32 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:29, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:23:33 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.
Throwing balls into jars in a firground for instance got you a stuffed
toy. Not a lot of use really but it didn't involve you losing your
rights, losing your right to be represented by parliament on the whim
of a lying unelected dictator.

Winning didn't involve losing trade agreements that a considerable
amount of the workforce depended on for jobs.

Leave won nothing. Leave gave away their rights, their democracy and
their credibility in the world.

If winning involves only a fraction of the Yellowhammer outcome,
Gamblers anonymous must be entirely populated by winners.

AB


That is a very selfish attitude.

However, if you must see some 'win', then how about the no longer being
associated with the duplicitous EU?

Actually I am still associated with the EU. Out of choice I might add.
The EU worked well for me and most other people in the British isles,
so what you suggest might be a win, I see as a loss.

The paltry pathetic offerings provided in place of what I once had are
an insult.

Duty free and a blue passport??


Funny, I didn't mention either passports or Duty Free.

You stated a win being disassociated from the EU. I do not see it as a
win for any normal person. Those trying to fiddle tax are in a
different situation and the EU is not for them.

So for the average "Joe" in the UK, his "win" is a blue passport and
the ability to buy duty free.

The blue passport has no value and isn't made in the UK anyway. It
could have been blue if "Joe" felt strongly enough to ask for one.

Duty free always was a ripoff, with most vendors trying to optimise
profit in place of the duty anyway. Guess what, the fantastic "Duty
Free" win is another government con. They apply the duty initially, so
they are giving away nothing.


You seem fixated with Duty Free.

Buying duty paid in the EU is a far better deal. I regularly travel to
France etc and stock up on returning perfectly legally- cases of wine,
not the odd bottle.


As I said, the UK educational system was never up to much.


Yawn...



I often travel outside Europe, the duty free isn't worth the effort.

You seem to think it is significant, you mentioned.

It was more satifying to get my Jamesons, Chateuneuf and Laphroig from
Asda when I got home. As for the blue passport, I tried to get a
refund for my British tat, but the shysters wouldn't play ball. If you
look at the small print the security chip has no warranty, so it's
£70-00 for a replacement if that goes. It does go frequently too.

Of course I do have a proper EU passport now, which at least provides
me with some self respect crossing borders.

Clearly not, you seem to need to convince yourself by telling use about it.


Actually I did get several comments when flying into Cork at the
outset of Brexit. It was disbelief then and it is pity now. The only
other expression is of concern over the impact on trade.

With the whole of the EU to trade with in a frictionless manner, I do
not think the UK's departure will be a problem for long.

I'm sure it won't. The EU export more to us than we do to them. They
need the trade. I was in France when the Russians stopped importing
fresh food, the French weren't happy- the shoppers were but not the
producers.

On 22/09/2019 19:34, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 19:26:30 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:17, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 17:52:43 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:14, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Likewise, where the winnings are less than the money you put in. I think
the National lottery payout is around 30%.

But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

That doesn't surprise me. I said you were boring.

Wrong again. You are thinking of a mechanical Engineer.

I wasn't. Typical of a Remoaner to think they know what's in my mind.
Perhaps your first field of work was psychology but were forced to
change when you got everything wrong.

Mechanical engineers think in the real world. You seem perpetually to be
in another.

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:04:02 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:34, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 19:26:30 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:17, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 17:52:43 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:14, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Likewise, where the winnings are less than the money you put in. I think
the National lottery payout is around 30%.

But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

That doesn't surprise me. I said you were boring.

Wrong again. You are thinking of a mechanical Engineer.

I wasn't. Typical of a Remoaner to think they know what's in my mind.
Perhaps your first field of work was psychology but were forced to
change when you got everything wrong.

Mechanical engineers think in the real world. You seem perpetually to be
in another.

Mechanical Engineers often specialise in boring devices. I do not!


I do have a battery drill back in the UK, but only used it in a work
related task once.

I didn't even book it on expenses :-)

AB

On 22/09/2019 19:30, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

So for the average "Joe" in the UK, his "win" is a blue passport and
the ability to buy duty free.

They don't win a blue passport, the UK decided to change from blue to
red not the EU and they could change back to blue if they wanted to.

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 20:51:27 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:30, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 18:18:32 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:29, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:23:33 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.
Throwing balls into jars in a firground for instance got you a stuffed
toy. Not a lot of use really but it didn't involve you losing your
rights, losing your right to be represented by parliament on the whim
of a lying unelected dictator.

Winning didn't involve losing trade agreements that a considerable
amount of the workforce depended on for jobs.

Leave won nothing. Leave gave away their rights, their democracy and
their credibility in the world.

If winning involves only a fraction of the Yellowhammer outcome,
Gamblers anonymous must be entirely populated by winners.

AB


That is a very selfish attitude.

However, if you must see some 'win', then how about the no longer being
associated with the duplicitous EU?

Actually I am still associated with the EU. Out of choice I might add.
The EU worked well for me and most other people in the British isles,
so what you suggest might be a win, I see as a loss.

The paltry pathetic offerings provided in place of what I once had are
an insult.

Duty free and a blue passport??


Funny, I didn't mention either passports or Duty Free.

You stated a win being disassociated from the EU. I do not see it as a
win for any normal person. Those trying to fiddle tax are in a
different situation and the EU is not for them.

So for the average "Joe" in the UK, his "win" is a blue passport and
the ability to buy duty free.

The blue passport has no value and isn't made in the UK anyway. It
could have been blue if "Joe" felt strongly enough to ask for one.

Duty free always was a ripoff, with most vendors trying to optimise
profit in place of the duty anyway. Guess what, the fantastic "Duty
Free" win is another government con. They apply the duty initially, so
they are giving away nothing.


You seem fixated with Duty Free.

No I'm not. I don't buy duty free even when available.

The only reason it came up is that it's one of the two cons that are
being hailed as benefits of leaving the EU. The "win" remember?

Buying duty paid in the EU is a far better deal. I regularly travel to
France etc and stock up on returning perfectly legally- cases of wine,
not the odd bottle.

Yes, practical. You can say goodbye to that :-)



As I said, the UK educational system was never up to much.


Yawn...



I often travel outside Europe, the duty free isn't worth the effort.

You seem to think it is significant, you mentioned.

It was more satifying to get my Jamesons, Chateuneuf and Laphroig from
Asda when I got home. As for the blue passport, I tried to get a
refund for my British tat, but the shysters wouldn't play ball. If you
look at the small print the security chip has no warranty, so it's
£70-00 for a replacement if that goes. It does go frequently too.

Of course I do have a proper EU passport now, which at least provides
me with some self respect crossing borders.

Clearly not, you seem to need to convince yourself by telling use about it.


Actually I did get several comments when flying into Cork at the
outset of Brexit. It was disbelief then and it is pity now. The only
other expression is of concern over the impact on trade.

With the whole of the EU to trade with in a frictionless manner, I do
not think the UK's departure will be a problem for long.

I'm sure it won't. The EU export more to us than we do to them. They
need the trade. I was in France when the Russians stopped importing
fresh food, the French weren't happy- the shoppers were but not the
producers.

'Twas doom and gloom in Ireland when the beef stopped flowing to
Russia too.

There was still a brisk trade and a resulting price drop in the shops.

There is a downside, the farmers are not happy.

Dashed unusual what?? :-)

AB

On 22/09/2019 21:11, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:04:02 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:34, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 19:26:30 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:17, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 17:52:43 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:14, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Likewise, where the winnings are less than the money you put in. I think
the National lottery payout is around 30%.

But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

That doesn't surprise me. I said you were boring.

Wrong again. You are thinking of a mechanical Engineer.

I wasn't. Typical of a Remoaner to think they know what's in my mind.
Perhaps your first field of work was psychology but were forced to
change when you got everything wrong.

Mechanical engineers think in the real world. You seem perpetually to be
in another.

Mechanical Engineers often specialise in boring devices. I do not!


I do have a battery drill back in the UK, but only used it in a work
related task once.

I didn't even book it on expenses :-)

If not wholly and exclusively used for work, then I should hope not.

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:13:09 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:30, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:

So for the average "Joe" in the UK, his "win" is a blue passport and
the ability to buy duty free.

They don't win a blue passport, the UK decided to change from blue to
red not the EU and they could change back to blue if they wanted to.

Don't talk down the poor blokes gain! May's bunch only had the blue
passports and deportation of the black Windrush people to keep the
poor Brexit knuckledraggers on stream.

If it isn't for blue passports and now duty free what is poor Brian
referring to as a "win"? It couldn't be the right to plug in toasters
with square pins could it?

Answers on a postcard.........?

AB

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:23:29 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 21:11, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:04:02 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:34, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 19:26:30 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 19:17, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 17:52:43 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:14, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Likewise, where the winnings are less than the money you put in. I think
the National lottery payout is around 30%.

But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

That doesn't surprise me. I said you were boring.

Wrong again. You are thinking of a mechanical Engineer.

I wasn't. Typical of a Remoaner to think they know what's in my mind.
Perhaps your first field of work was psychology but were forced to
change when you got everything wrong.

Mechanical engineers think in the real world. You seem perpetually to be
in another.

Mechanical Engineers often specialise in boring devices. I do not!


I do have a battery drill back in the UK, but only used it in a work
related task once.

I didn't even book it on expenses :-)

If not wholly and exclusively used for work, then I should hope not.

One has One's principles!

Wholly and exclusively sounds a bit steep though.

But having worked on sites secured by the military police, I tend to
be fairly paranoid about a clear definition of government and my
property.

My manager was arrested once, I left a portable TV in the MOD stores
for him to collect.

Bloody MOD plods, how the flipping hell they could suspect a portable
TV was government property on a military site dealing exclusively with
arms and ammunition beggared belief. At least the civilians needed an
o level or two to get on the force.

Every MOD plod became a Brexit voter no doubt.

AB

"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 17:52:43 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 17:14, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:22:51 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 22/09/2019 12:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 06:25:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 02:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/09/2019 13:14, TimW wrote:
On 17/09/2019 11:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

26 Reasons for Leaving the EU.

[snip list]

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong

I'll be interested to read our Brexiteers views on the above.


Brexiters don't even care if it's true or not. Just as long as they
can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism, it's nationalism, it's
post-truth politics.

Only a remainer would say something like that.


The irony is that that is exactly what remain is - post truth
politics.

Just as long as they can be shouty, angry and win. it's populism,
it's
nationalism, it's post-truth politics.

Only in this case its the EU representing the national entity.

How many people waving Jacks on the streets? How many waving EU
flags?

Leave DID win.

Really?

I seem to recollect that winning involved a gain of some kind.

Have you not won anything? You poor thing.

I don't gamble. For every winner there are losers. The buzz of a win
does not appease the depression of a loss.

Likewise, where the winnings are less than the money you put in. I think
the National lottery payout is around 30%.

But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

Corse you do, every time you leave the house.

On 22/09/2019 13:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Spike wrote:
On 18/09/2019 09:36, T i m wrote:

We weren't ready
because the majority (the 2/3rds that didn't vote to Leave) didn't
have a reason to.

What a silly argument. By the same token 2/3rds didn't vote for Remain.

Those who voted remain or abstained knew exactly what they were voting
for. The status quo.

I can't find a single Remainer who knows what rules, regulation,
directives, and other edicts have been imposed on the UK by the EU since
the second Referendum in 2016, so to say 'they know what they voted for'
is disingenuous at best. You can describe that as 'the status quo ' if
you wish, but it doesn't changed their ignorance.

The third who voted leave can't even agree among
themselves what this means now. So surely fair to assume many voted on
what the leave campaign promised them? And since so few of those promises
seem attainable in the light of experience, how can you know how they'd
vote now?

What would be 'fair' is to honour the result of the second Referendum.
The EU offered a deal, it was rejected multiple times by Parliament. The
only thing left on the table is a no-deal Brexit.


--
Spike

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:05:16 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

Corse you do, every time you leave the house.

Idiot!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 23/09/2019 08:43, Spike wrote:
On 22/09/2019 13:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Spike wrote:
On 18/09/2019 09:36, T i m wrote:

We weren't ready
because the majority (the 2/3rds that didn't vote to Leave) didn't
have a reason to.

What a silly argument. By the same token 2/3rds didn't vote for Remain.

Those who voted remain or abstained knew exactly what they were voting
for. The status quo.

I can't find a single Remainer who knows what rules, regulation,
directives, and other edicts have been imposed on the UK by the EU since
the second Referendum in 2016, so to say 'they know what they voted for'
is disingenuous at best. You can describe that as 'the status quo ' if
you wish, but it doesn't changed their ignorance.

Do you want to tell us what you think they are so we can shoot them down
as being untrue?


Nearly everything claimed by brexiteers has been untrue so it would be
interesting if you have some true ones.

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 11:05:36 +0000, Spike
wrote:

On 22/09/2019 00:47, T i m wrote:
On 21 Sep 2019 15:06:30 +0000, Spike wrote:
On 21/09/2019 10:39, T i m wrote:
On 21 Sep 2019 09:58:38 +0000, Spike wrote:
On 18/09/2019 09:36, T i m wrote:

We weren't ready because the majority (the 2/3rds that didn't vote to
Leave) didn't have a reason to.

What a silly argument.

Only if you aren't looking at it from the bigger picture.

And that's a silly argument as well.

In your opinion of course ... and you are?

Perhaps you'd care to describe this 'bigger picture' that you have
suddenly introduced to deflect attention from your previous silly argument.

Not suddenly introduced, it's been there all the time and was
considered by some of us at the time of the referendum poll.

I'll not bother explaining it all again as the chances are you still
wouldn't get it.

snip

You haven't explained any such thing as a 'position', so there is
nothing to 'understand'

I have, several times, sorry it whooshed you.

What such a question doesn't cover is those who might prefer an ice
lolly or just a cold drink.

Part of managing democracy is asking the right questions to the right
people and ensuring enough of them agree to any *change* that doesn't
have a very reasonable predicted outcome for 'most people'.

Is it?

Of course.

Christ on a bike.

I thought it was a car? Wasn't he 'heard on the street in his
Triumph'?

Who are 'the right people'?

Well, those who weren't given the option to have their say then but
are going to have to suffer any negative outcomes for the longest
period (for one group).

MP's have a duty of care to ensure we don't hurt ourselves, like if
50%+1 want crocodiles in all local swimming pools.

MPs have a duty to implement the voters choice, not some made-up fantasy
of yours.

Nope, BS. Shame you actually believe yourself.

What a strange world-view you have -

Oh the irony.

we can vote, but only if we are
'the right people' who have been asked 'the right questions' and
therefore 'ensuring' any change beforehand.

See above. Every day a school day for you eh. ;-)

That sounds remarkably like
the Soviet system.

Only because you didn't understand the scenario, because you aren't
able to.

We were going along a road that whilst may have had a few bends, was
generally straight and we all had a reasonable idea about what
tomorrow would be like.

Then, a tiny minority of people made the statement that if we turned
of that road, 90 degrees, we would all have better lives, without
anyone actually knowing if that was true or even likely. In fact, some
scouts that looked suggested that it might be a touch of the grass
being greener and could actually just be weed on a stagnant ford.

So, how many rules, regulations, directives, and other imperatives have
been imposed on the UK by the EU since the second referendum vote?

Pass ... but none that have affected 'most people' enough to even have
them on their radar and certainly not enough to lose loads of money
over.

You don't know what has been imposed on you, but can say that 'none' has
affected anyone and no-one has lost shedloads of money?

I never said any such thing. Have you looked at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally%E2%80%93Anne_test

All I have said is that 'most people' haven't been made worse off by
our membership of the EU, more likely the opposite in fact. And not
just as a function of us having the 4th highest GDP but a quality of
life that many around the world are envious off and want for
themselves, irrespective of how you personally consider it.


Laughable. The current emissions/global warming.climate change agenda
has been foisted on us at least in part by the EU,

Yet 'we' are leading the way apparently?

That's affecting
everyone negatively and costing them loads of cash. Have you been asleep
these past few years?

I have had some sleep recently, perhaps you should as well to help you
think clearer?

Did *you* see them all coming?

I'm not the one predicting the future, it's the Brexiteers.

No, quite the opposite. You're avoiding the future by sticking your head
in a bucket.

How can we 'avoid the future'. Talk about stupid comments. Many of the
Remainers were going along the 'better the devil you know' direction
which is *exactly* the opposite of how you see it.

Do you always put forward such silly arguments?

Why are you so selfish?

Why are you so dim?

It's not me that is demonstrating a selfish / closed minded attitude
here.

Aren't you one of 'the right people'?

Funnily enough, no, I'm not. I didn't vote in the poll because unlike
you, I don't have a crystal ball so couldn't be *sure* that leaving
the EU would be better for 'most people'.

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 04:48:03 +0000 (UTC), Brian Reay
wrote:

snip

We are more worried about you. ;-(

No, you are worried about your selfish views not being listen shared by
others.

Bwhahaha. 'My views' were shared by 2/3rds of the electorate mate.

The result of the Vote wasn’t to your liking

More complete and utter BS. You really don't have a clue.

I didn't vote so don't have a dog in this fight.
I didn't vote (even though I spoiled my paper) because it wasn't clear
at the time, just how many things I sensed were lies were actual
lies,. Since then we have learned that it was all of them. £350M/w to
the NHS instead, Turks coming over in hoards ...

and now you are acting like
spoilt brat with his fingers in his ears shouting his demands.

And you are acting (although in your case I don't think it's an act
;0( ) like someone on a campaign for your own selfish reasons.

Fact. 2/3rds of the electorate DID NOT vote FOR leaving the EU.

Because you are a bit slow ... especially for a maths teacher g Only
1/3rd of the electorate voted to leave. Fact.

Now, if you think that all that is a clear demonstration of
*anything*, other than it's far from cut and dried that 'the people'
want us out of the EU, then you are only further demonstrating the
fact you are on a personal campaign and aren't interested in what
might actually be best for 'the people'.

First of all I thought they were simply venal trolls, but I am coming to
reaslise that they are in complete and utter denial: They have swallowed
project fear hook line and sinker, and are really genuinely scared and
in utter denial because they not only believe it, but believe that
politicians will reverse it. Because it is 'wrong'

Correct, but not because we believe in any hype or spin, put out by
the Brexiteers but because we haven't seen anything yet that justifies
the whole clusterfcuk to 'most people'.

Your failure to absorb the available information,

Ah, like your indoctrination you mean?

or more exactly your
refusal,

How can I refuse what hasn't been presented (unless you think that
what you consider to be 'good reasons' would have to apply to
everyone)?

Because you think you are right and because I won't roll over and
agree, you throw your toys out the pram?

Come up with a reasonable level of proof that 'most people' will (not
might or should be) better off out of the EU and then I might vote
Leave.

isn’t anyone else’s responsibility but your own.

Exactly, something I took on from the beginning when not forced to
vote on something that was far from clear.


Brexit was the answer to the question that few were asking and became
an answer by default, not because it was right or sensible.


Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it wrong.

No, of course it doesn't, in the same way because you like it (for
reasons that only fanatic Brexiteers consider reasonable) that doesn't
make it right either.

The difference between us is, I am fully aware I don't have all the
answers but you aren't aware that you don't. You voted on your beliefs
(because NO ONE still has any idea of the final deal / outcome) and I
needed facts. You were able to vote with no real idea of how it might
impact everyone and I wouldn't gamble that against the status quo.

You are a minority activist on a crusade but without the ability to
explain to the majority why we should do what you want.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/09/2019 17:52, Fredxx wrote:
But never taking a gambol is different.

Ah! Look at how happy and gay the gambolling girls are feeling, in their
summer dresses

Look how happy and gay the gambolling boys are, feeling in their summer
dresses.


Turnip takeing the **** out of a typo. ;-)

--
*A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
But never taking a gambol is different. We knew you had an abusive
personality, we can now add 'boring'.

I'm an Engineer. I do not take risks.

Pretty well any form of gambling relies on a few benefitting from the
losses of many. No wonder Brexiteers love it.

--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
With the whole of the EU to trade with in a frictionless manner, I do
not think the UK's departure will be a problem for long.

I'm sure it won't. The EU export more to us than we do to them. They
need the trade.

The 'they need us more than we need them' gamble?
Going awfully well so far.

--
*If God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 23/09/2019 08:45, dennis@home wrote:
On 23/09/2019 08:43, Spike wrote:
On 22/09/2019 13:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Spike wrote:
On 18/09/2019 09:36, T i m wrote:

We weren't ready
because the majority (the 2/3rds that didn't vote to Leave) didn't
have a reason to.

What a silly argument. By the same token 2/3rds didn't vote for Remain.

Those who voted remain or abstained knew exactly what they were voting

I can't find a single Remainer who knows what rules, regulation,
directives, and other edicts have been imposed on the UK by the EU since
the second Referendum in 2016, so to say 'they know what they voted for'
is disingenuous at best. You can describe that as 'the status quo ' if
you wish, but it doesn't changed their ignorance.

Do you want to tell us what you think they are so we can shoot them down
as being untrue?

I'm trying to even just one remainer to say how many new rules, etc,
have been imposed on the UK since June 2016. So far, the silence has
been deafening.

Nearly everything claimed by brexiteers has been untrue so it would be
interesting if you have some true ones.

Do you want to tell us what you think they are so we can shoot them down
as being untrue?


--
Spike

On Saturday, 21 September 2019 11:39:39 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 09:58:38 +0000, Spike
wrote:

On 18/09/2019 09:36, T i m wrote:

We weren't ready
because the majority (the 2/3rds that didn't vote to Leave) didn't
have a reason to.

What a silly argument.

Only if you aren't looking at it from the bigger picture.

which big picture is that then.
We know your big picture is when 37=34=27 because all those numbers are equal to 1/3rd.


By the same token 2/3rds didn't vote for Remain.

But remaining is what we were doing already so many wouldn't see the
point of voting for what they already had?

Because that is how it has always been done.
In the last GE we didn't decide that all none voters wanted the conseratove party to win did we.
We don't say that everyone that dies on election day wanted to vote for the current party.


'Hands up who wants an ice cream' is what the actual question should
have been as only those who *want* such would then respond.

In your simple little world perhaps.


What such a question doesn't cover is those who might prefer an ice
lolly or just a cold drink.

What about those that wanted a cup of tea or coffee, what if those that wanted **** all ?



Part of managing democracy is asking the right questions to the right
people

Ah I see now democracy is about asking the right people.



MP's have a duty of care to ensure we don't hurt ourselves,

No they DO NOT.
How many people got hurt when we declared war on Germany twice.
How many soldiers voted to die in the falklands.
How many voted to die in ireland and the mainland fighting the IRA ?


like if
50%+1 want crocodiles in all local swimming pools.

In a democracy people don't have to vote if they don't want to.

As in your example hands up all those that want icecream.
In yuor world unless 50%+1 of the worlds children don;t vote for having ice cream then no child is allowed ice cream is that how it works.




We were going along a road that whilst may have had a few bends,

a few bends , that depends on who you are and your POV



generally straight and we all had a reasonable idea about what
tomorrow would be like.

Yes the young not being able to afford homes and having to live with their parents.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49787913

yes I'm betting you're doing OK so everything is OK then in a democracy if you're OK.



Then, a tiny minority

37% compared to 34%
because you can only work in single digit of 1.


of people made the statement that if we turned
of that road, 90 degrees,

where do you get 90 degrees from. Surely going in the oppersire direction ios 180 degrees.
No suprise your direction is as equally screwed as yuor so called democracy.