Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date. We still use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?


--
Clive Page

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page wrote:

Just accept that most new windows 10 PCs' come with junk installed.

AFAIK you can reinstall a clean copy of Windows 10 on any windows 10 PC
that has already been authorised/"finger printed" by MS.

I have fixed a couple of PC's that were orginally windows 8 and then
updated to windows 10 before failing.
Re installing Windows 10 from the MS ISO proved to be painless.
Both machines automatically "authorised".

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?


The effort* in removing bloatware is better spent on a platform that you
have much more control of, i.e. Linux or Mac. Performing day to day
activities is very straightforward on these, no game playing rituals
required.

* Basically, on a machine with digital entitlement to run Windows 10,
the process is to download the equivalent non-OEM tampered vanilla
version direct from Microsoft, reinstall, and then battle with
powershell (or "settings") to remove apps that MS occasionally spams
your PC with, in every update.

If you want to go that way, you may as well buy a posh second user
Lenovo laptop from a recycler, and enjoy(?) the whole maintenance
experience.

--
Adrian C

On Thursday, 14 February 2019 10:24:13 UTC, Clive Page wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date. We still use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?


You'll get a better deal with a no-name build on ebay. Do check seller ratings & do verify you've received the right specs before doing anything else with it.

Debloating vendor's OSes is not something to recommend. It tends to be impossible. Start with MS Win, or better, linux Mint LTS. Now you have no bloat or malware from the start.


NT

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

snip

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

Any. If running W10 then you can download a copy of W10 installer from
MS and just install a fresh / base copy and only add what you want
yourself. ;-)

https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/downlo...77631-3330946/

The chances are it will detect all the hardware automagically and will
also authenticate itself the first time you go online. I've just done
such on a friends - kids laptop.

Cheers, T i m

On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still. Then
you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student or a
connection to a charity.

TW

On 14/02/2019 11:28, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Â* Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or
on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still. Then
you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student or a
connection to a charity.

TW

+1 for Novatech but with an OS. They don't install bloatware.

Cheers
--
Clive

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 11:20:16 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

I really am not being snippy, but if you don't want bloatware, Windows -
of any stripe - is not for you.

And if they are asking such a question, do you think Linux is the
solution and if so, who is going to install / maintain it for them?

What's the machine to be used for ? Unless you have a requirement for a
very niche Windows-only application, I'd really look to Linux and run up
a VM for anything genuinely Windows only.

Many people simply don't want Linux because it isn't what they know
(for a given value of know) or because they use Windows a work or it's
what 'everyone else' has. Plus the kid next door would generally be
able to fix a Windows question, many will never have eve seen Linux.

Now don't get me wrong, if the OP is looking for a new hobby, is a bit
of a nerd, or knows a Linux geek who is happy to actually give RW help
as / when required ... and they don't (or might not when the grand
kids come round) want to run ay of the Windows centric stuff that is
out there, then Linux *could* be a viable solution.

I have provide Linux (foc) for many people now and the vast majority
don't like it, can't use it and generally ask me to 'Put Windows back
on' for something there isn't a good Linux solution for.

I do have 3 or 4 people now who use Linux as their daily desktop but
they really only use their machines as web terminals. [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] When I visited the other day I noticed both of them mentioned that
Facebook (or something) was complaining that Firefox was out of date.
I noticed that neither machine had been updated since the last time I
as there so I did them both. One went ok (but slowly) and the other
one ended up with a corrupted desktop and I had to run the recovery
option and (luckily) the 'Fix broken packages' seemed to get it going
again. Had it not I wasn't sure what would happen next and after 40+
years in IT I still don't know a friendly Linux geek I could call for
help (possibly because 'Linux geek' and 'friendly' are likely to be an
oxymoron). ;-)

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:
Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing
and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?




https://www.pcdecrapifier.com/

I have no idea if that is any good?

On 14/02/2019 11:59, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 14/02/2019 11:28, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Â* Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or
on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still.
Then you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student
or a connection to a charity.

TW

+1 for Novatech but with an OS.Â* They don't install bloatware.

Cheers
+1 again. My current machine ia a Novatech 'bare bones' system with my
coice of hdd & optical drive, I also bought a Win7pro OEM cd &
installed it myself. 3(or is it 4)years on it is working perfectly

Malcolm

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 14/02/2019 12:08, T i m wrote:

snipped

Many people simply don't want Linux because it isn't what they know
(for a given value of know) or because they use Windows a work or it's
what 'everyone else' has. Plus the kid next door would generally be
able to fix a Windows question, many will never have eve seen Linux.

I do have 3 or 4 people now who use Linux as their daily desktop but
they really only use their machines as web terminals. [1]

Cheers, T i m

For computer illiterate users who want to browse, send emails, write
letters and view photographs, Peppermint Linux is very good and probably
much safer for them. I've put this on laptops for my two sisters in law
and they're very happy with it - it works well and has a nice GUI.

I use Windows because of the software I need, but have Peppermint on my
ancient don't-care holiday laptop because it works well on a low-spec
machine.

Cheers
--
Clive

On 14/02/19 12:09, Malcolm Race wrote:
On 14/02/2019 11:59, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 14/02/2019 11:28, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Â* Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or
on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still.
Then you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student
or a connection to a charity.

TW

+1 for Novatech but with an OS.Â* They don't install bloatware.

Cheers
+1 again. My current machine ia a Novatech 'bare bones' system with my
coice of hdd & optical drive, I also bought a Win7pro OEM cd &
installed it myself. 3(or is it 4)years on it is working perfectly

+1. I bought a "clearance" high-spec laptop (Elite Ultimate - rebadged
Clevo) 4 years ago. Amazing value. I got it because I wanted to install
a Linux distro rather than Win8, so there was no question of bloatware.
It has worked faultlessly since I bought it.

It now runs Linux Mint 19.1/Cinnamon 4.0.9.

Unfortunately, Novatech do not appear to have any clearance offers at
the moment.

--

Jeff

Clive Page wrote:
From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to
remove all the junk?

There's a thing called Windows Signature Edition, which is just plain
windows preinstalled:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/b/signaturepcs

However you should look at the bloatware as advertising that subsidises the
cost of the PC, because they expect you'll take up all the free trials etc.
If you're willing to do the work to reinstall Windows from a standard DVD,
you get to keep the subsidy as well as get rid of the bloatware.

However, you need to be vigilant for firmware things like:
https://thehackernews.com/2015/08/le...t-malware.html
(I think only Lenovo have been doing this)

THeo

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:
Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing
and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?


IME Lenovo have less blotware than others, to the degree that I don't
bother doing a clean install on them, unlike others, but that isn't hard
to do if you want to.

Windows 10 itself is a bit bloaty. Take a look at

https://www.oueta.com/microsoft/how-...om-windows-10/

On 14/02/2019 12:35, Theo wrote:
Clive Page wrote:
From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to
remove all the junk?

There's a thing called Windows Signature Edition, which is just plain
windows preinstalled:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/b/signaturepcs

However you should look at the bloatware as advertising that subsidises the
cost of the PC, because they expect you'll take up all the free trials etc.
If you're willing to do the work to reinstall Windows from a standard DVD,
you get to keep the subsidy as well as get rid of the bloatware.

However, you need to be vigilant for firmware things like:
https://thehackernews.com/2015/08/le...t-malware.html
(I think only Lenovo have been doing this)

THeo

They abandoned it a long time ago, thankfully.

Chris Bartram wrote:
IME Lenovo have less blotware than others, to the degree that I don't
bother doing a clean install on them, unlike others, but that isn't hard
to do if you want to.

I'd say Lenovo is the brand that absolutely needs a clean install, due to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish

A number of tech people have never-Lenovo policies after this (and the other
rootkit I mentioned).

Theo

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:
Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing
and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?


My last three or four desktop machines have been "refurbished" medium to
high end Dells from banking / server farm type environments. They seem
to come with completely clean installs. Amazon or ebay, taking note of
volumes and feedback.

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 13:36:21 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 12:08:22 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 11:20:16 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

I really am not being snippy, but if you don't want bloatware, Windows -
of any stripe - is not for you.

And if they are asking such a question, do you think Linux is the
solution and if so, who is going to install / maintain it for them?

The tone of the OPs post - and reference to previous experience of
removing bloatware intimated the OP themselves might be capable

Ok, but I still think there is a huge leap between clicking on
'Uninstall' in Windows and trying to work out why the video
performance is really bad in Linux.

I think that because I have been there (and similar) too many times.

And even once a geek has got Linux installed and working for you, what
about all those apps you relied on that simply aren't available, or
only have poor clones of under Linux?

Like I said, if you are lucky and all the hardware is found (properly)
automagically under Linux and you only want to use it for the most
basic tasks, for 'most people' they could probably get away with
Linux.

However, many people who run Linux also either dual boot with Windows
or run Windows in a VM (like that isn't Windows), because of those
'mist have' Windows programs that aren't covered under Linux.

Cheers, T i m

On 14/02/2019 11:59, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 14/02/2019 11:28, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Â* Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or
on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still.
Then you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student
or a connection to a charity.

TW

+1 for Novatech but with an OS.Â* They don't install bloatware.

Cheers

Of course. so there's your answer. hardware and oemwindows from novatech.
TW

On 14/02/2019 10:25, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Clive Page
wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from
which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as
a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and
spreadsheet
work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding
factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard to
assess that
from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have experience of
which
brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the
junk?

Yes, it's called a Mac. No bloatware at all.

All bloatware.

Try Linux.

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.

IME its even easier to install Linux Mint and never have hte bloatware
again and get abouut a 10:1 performance increase


--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On Thursday, 14 February 2019 16:45:24 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:25, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Clive Page
wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from
which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as
a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and
spreadsheet
work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding
factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard to
assess that
from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have experience of
which
brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the
junk?

Yes, it's called a Mac. No bloatware at all.

All bloatware.


What's the bloatware on a Mac ?

Try Linux.

If you want to spend all your time doing nothing linux is the way to go, but to get something done even windose is better than linux.

On Thursday, 14 February 2019 16:56:04 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 14 February 2019 16:45:24 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Try Linux.

If you want to spend all your time doing nothing linux is the way to go, but to get something done even windose is better than linux.

My experience has consistently been that Linux requires way less messing with & is quicker to use. Windows has only worsened since I last used it much, Linux has only got better. Neither is perfect of course.


NT

On 14/02/2019 10:41, Richard wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page wrote:

Just accept that most new windows 10 PCs' come with junk installed.

AFAIK you can reinstall a clean copy of Windows 10 on any windows 10 PC
that has already been authorised/"finger printed" by MS.

I have fixed a couple of PC's that were orginally windows 8 and then
updated to windows 10 before failing.
Re installing Windows 10 from the MS ISO proved to be painless.
Both machines automatically "authorised".

and if you have a properly activated Win 7 or 8.1 machine it will
upgrade to 10 without any hassle even though the "free" upgrade period
is technically over.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing
and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?

Having bought shed loads of HP and Lenovo laptops in recent years, it
has to be said that the included crapware is relatively minimal these
days. Usually a bit of warranty nagware, and 3 month demo version of
McCafee, or Norton. All relatively easy to dispose of.

I would expect[1] their off the shelf desktop machines to be similar in
software fit.

[1] I buy desktop machines from a system builder, and they don't preload
anything.

The main impact on performance is whether it has a SSD or not as its
main drive, and what CPU you choose. Mid spec i5, SSD, and 8GB will sail
through pretty much any business or productivity application.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:41, Richard wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page wrote:

Just accept that most new windows 10 PCs' come with junk installed.

AFAIK you can reinstall a clean copy of Windows 10 on any windows 10 PC
that has already been authorised/"finger printed" by MS.

I have fixed a couple of PC's that were orginally windows 8 and then
updated to windows 10 before failing.
Re installing Windows 10 from the MS ISO proved to be painless.
Both machines automatically "authorised".

and if you have a properly activated Win 7 or 8.1 machine it will
upgrade to 10 without any hassle even though the "free" upgrade period
is technically over.

This machine that I'm using startted life running Win7 - now on Win10. But
a laptop really didn't like the upgrade due to memory limitations.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 14/02/2019 18:55, charles wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:41, Richard wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page wrote:

Just accept that most new windows 10 PCs' come with junk installed.

AFAIK you can reinstall a clean copy of Windows 10 on any windows 10 PC
that has already been authorised/"finger printed" by MS.

I have fixed a couple of PC's that were orginally windows 8 and then
updated to windows 10 before failing.
Re installing Windows 10 from the MS ISO proved to be painless.
Both machines automatically "authorised".

and if you have a properly activated Win 7 or 8.1 machine it will
upgrade to 10 without any hassle even though the "free" upgrade period
is technically over.

This machine that I'm using startted life running Win7 - now on Win10. But
a laptop really didn't like the upgrade due to memory limitations.


Win10 runs alright on a laptop with 1G of RAM and a 60GB disk with a 600
MHz celeron CPU.
Its a bit slow to boot so I don't reboot it just suspend it.

Well, to be honest they are only cheap due to their bloatware. If you want a
clean machine go to a small store but it will cost more.
Otherwise allow a couple of weeks for removing crapware first.

Avast should be the first to go!

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP from
which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date. We still use it
as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and
spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to
remove all the junk?


--
Clive Page

On 14/02/2019 18:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We
still use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word
processing and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that
look suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell,
etc.

Â*From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's
hard to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone
have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's
easiest to remove all the junk?

Having bought shed loads of HP and Lenovo laptops in recent years, it
has to be said that the included crapware is relatively minimal these
days. Usually a bit ofÂ* warranty nagware, and 3 month demo version of
McCafee, or Norton. All relatively easy to dispose of.

Its easy to download the ISO and do an install of vanilla win10 if there
is too much cr@pware.


I would expect[1] their off the shelf desktop machines to be similar in
software fit.

[1] I buy desktop machines from a system builder, and they don't preload
anything.

The main impact on performance is whether it has a SSD or not as its
main drive, and what CPU you choose. Mid spec i5, SSD, and 8GB will sail
through pretty much any business or productivity application.



Even with an i7 photoshop elements can bring it to a crawl.

Yes but if you are looking for a bare bones then you can just as easily put
on a clean windows install.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/2019 10:25, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Clive Page
wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from
which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date. We still use it
as
a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and
spreadsheet
work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding
factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard to
assess that
from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have experience of
which
brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the
junk?

Yes, it's called a Mac. No bloatware at all.

All bloatware.

Try Linux.

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility

What they say about pets is true of PCs too.

it's running Windows XP from which you can tell that it's well past it's
use-by date. We still use it as a file and backup server and for
occasional word processing and spreadsheet work, but don't need high
performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed

It isnt hard to delete that with Win.

but it's hard to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does
anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which
it's easiest to remove all the junk?

Havent used a modern Packard Bell but there isnt a lot in it with the rest.

Well maybe maybe not. I tend to not let them onto the net until I've
uninstalled all I can.

avast is a bit of an issue as avastclear can damage the registry or so it
seems. Mind you the damage mainly affects some APIs for screenreader use
most of the time.
Also beware removing office and reinstalling it, as this too has problems.
Whatever you get though get an SSD main drive on it.
Also get a back up drive that you can unplug.

I seem to recall a web site I stumbled across with the main list of
bloatware updated periodically.
I went to an independent builder and had no bloatware but remember, you pay
more if the profit is made from you rather than the bloatware companies.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on
which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Clive Page
wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP from
which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date. We still use it
as
a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and
spreadsheet
work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding
factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard to assess
that
from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have experience of
which
brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the
junk?

Yes, it's called a Mac. No bloatware at all.

But not as easy to use as a file and backup server when your other machines
are Win systems.

On 14/02/2019 19:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well maybe maybe not. I tend to not let them onto the net until I've
uninstalled all I can.

avast is a bit of an issue as avastclear can damage the registry or
so it seems. Mind you the damage mainly affects some APIs for
screenreader use most of the time. Also beware removing office and
reinstalling it, as this too has problems. Whatever you get though
get an SSD main drive on it. Also get a back up drive that you can
unplug.

I seem to recall a web site I stumbled across with the main list of
bloatware updated periodically. I went to an independent builder and
had no bloatware but remember, you pay more if the profit is made
from you rather than the bloatware companies. Brian


I reinstalled win10 from a downloaded USB drive last week and it talks
to you for the installation.
You can also tell it the answers if your mic is working.

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 16:05:05 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 14:23:30 +0000, T i m wrote:

And even once a geek has got Linux installed and working for you, what
about all those apps you relied on that simply aren't available, or only
have poor clones of under Linux?

Hence my followup question about what the end goal is.

If you're doing hardcore MS development using Visual Studio etc, then
Windows is probably a good idea. If all you do is email/surf and nothing
too niche, it's more than likely Linux will suffice - given that some
applications such as Handbrake (video ripping) are available for Windows
and Linux.

If you're running some obscure piece of hardware, such as a Telex handler
with no new drivers since the company folded in 2003, then you are
probably stuck with Windows.

Quite.

So, given I'm not 'fan' of any OS (it's a means to an end) but like
having flexibility (range) and compatibility (the world *IS* still
very Windows centric) then that means it has to be Windows.

If you are willing to forgo all of that then yes, Linux can be a
solution for some.

It's like Windows is a petrol powered car, Mac a diesel and Linux LPG.
Yes, the latter two can have their advantages but only as long as you
are also willing to put up with their shortcomings (if you aren't part
of the minority it happens to suit).

Those of us who *have* been involved with Linux for a long time and
over many real-world machines (that were often built / designed for
Windows, not Linux) and with many real world users are able to judge
such things from a RW POV.

I have many instances of Linux on many machines here and yet I rarely
run one of them up to do anything and when I do, it's generally just
for fun, because I haven't for a while. For me, Mac OS is eve worse
(it's only a Bootcamp away but I've not booted to OSX for *years*.

Why haven't I? Because there is little I can't do on Windows (even
this XP) that I could do better on the other OS's?

An exception might be the likes of GParted.

If you take my most simple of daily desktop needs, Firefox and
Thunderbird are pretty similar across both platforms but Pan simply
doesn't work as fast or as well for me as Forte Agent (on the exact
same hardware).

It's like walking shoes / boots. I still haven't found any wide enough
but I have found some that 'might do', if I didn't care about actually
being comfortable. Outside of FF, TB and LO etc, pretty well every
other Linux app is a crude and often difficult to install (because you
don't generally have one setup.exe for a wide range of platforms)
alternative.

Teamviewer is fine of course, as it's the Windows version running
under Wine (but you don't have to configure the Wine bit yourself).
;-)

And that's the point ... Linux is great when it's not being interfaced
directly by people, like on Android phones or file / web servers,
doorbells and TV's etc. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Well, to be honest they are only cheap due to their bloatware. If you want
a clean machine go to a small store but it will cost more.

Otherwise allow a couple of weeks for removing crapware first.

Doesn’t take a couple of weeks to do a clean
install of Win from the distro you download.

Avast should be the first to go!

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date. We still
use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and
spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?


--
Clive Page

On 14/02/2019 10:25, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Clive Page
wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from
which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as
a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and
spreadsheet
work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding
factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard to
assess that
from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have experience of
which
brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the
junk?

Yes, it's called a Mac. No bloatware at all.


I'll bite.

Which Mac is "costing up to £350"?

Andy

On Thursday, 14 February 2019 13:31:31 UTC, Theo wrote:
Chris Bartram wrote:
IME Lenovo have less blotware than others, to the degree that I don't
bother doing a clean install on them, unlike others, but that isn't hard
to do if you want to.

I'd say Lenovo is the brand that absolutely needs a clean install, due to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish

A number of tech people have never-Lenovo policies after this (and the other
rootkit I mentioned).

Theo

More recent Lenovos have been much better. Don't think you really need anything except their Vantage tool to make it easy to get firmware and drivers.

Currently the worst of the big boys seem to be HP. Not only lots of things like JumpStart but several which several items which are known to interfere with other software.

In message , Vir Campestris
writes
Which Mac is "costing up to £350"?

Funnily enough, the person who I have been giving the most assistance to
with his Windows machines rang me this week to say he had just ordered a
refurbished iMac for £400.
It arrived on Wednesday and on the phone I talked him through getting it
connected to the internet and Teamviewer installed.
Then there was the usual nonsense of unremembered login passwords, and
after a session this afternoon we finally got email working and a couple
of his big (2GB and 4GB) external usb drives connected to get some of
his files onto it.
I have not used a Mac since they were just Apple, so there was a lot of
finding my way. The blind leading the blind.
He said it looks pretty when switched off and I said he was starting to
think of computers like jewellery.
He said it seemed very slow compared with his Windows machine. I
reminded him that the Windows machine had an ssd plus a big data drive,
whereas this Mac just had one 500GB drive.
He seems still convinced that his iMac is "better". I hadn't the heart
to remind him that the Thinkpad laptop I was controlling his Mac from
has a 500GB ssd plus a 500GB data drive, has the same 8GB memory,
swivels into a touch + stylus tablet and cost almost exactly half of
what he paid for the Mac.

It has been, and I think will continue to be, quite interesting.
--
Bill

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com