Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date. We still use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?


--
Clive Page

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.

On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still. Then
you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student or a
connection to a charity.

TW

On 14/02/2019 11:28, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Â* Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or
on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still. Then
you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student or a
connection to a charity.

TW

+1 for Novatech but with an OS. They don't install bloatware.

Cheers
--
Clive

On 14/02/2019 11:59, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 14/02/2019 11:28, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Â* Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or
on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still.
Then you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student
or a connection to a charity.

TW

+1 for Novatech but with an OS.Â* They don't install bloatware.

Cheers
+1 again. My current machine ia a Novatech 'bare bones' system with my
coice of hdd & optical drive, I also bought a Win7pro OEM cd &
installed it myself. 3(or is it 4)years on it is working perfectly

Malcolm

---
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https://www.avg.com

On 14/02/19 12:09, Malcolm Race wrote:
On 14/02/2019 11:59, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 14/02/2019 11:28, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Â* Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or
on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still.
Then you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student
or a connection to a charity.

TW

+1 for Novatech but with an OS.Â* They don't install bloatware.

Cheers
+1 again. My current machine ia a Novatech 'bare bones' system with my
coice of hdd & optical drive, I also bought a Win7pro OEM cd &
installed it myself. 3(or is it 4)years on it is working perfectly

+1. I bought a "clearance" high-spec laptop (Elite Ultimate - rebadged
Clevo) 4 years ago. Amazing value. I got it because I wanted to install
a Linux distro rather than Win8, so there was no question of bloatware.
It has worked faultlessly since I bought it.

It now runs Linux Mint 19.1/Cinnamon 4.0.9.

Unfortunately, Novatech do not appear to have any clearance offers at
the moment.

--

Jeff

On 14/02/2019 11:59, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 14/02/2019 11:28, TimW wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Â* Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or
on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.


You could always get pcs without an OS from novatech. Maybe still.
Then you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student
or a connection to a charity.

TW

+1 for Novatech but with an OS.Â* They don't install bloatware.

Cheers

Of course. so there's your answer. hardware and oemwindows from novatech.
TW

TimW wrote:

You could always get pcs without an OS

Then you'll be paying over £100 for a genuine Win10 licence to go with
it (and don't get fooled that anything cheaper is is legit).

On 15/02/2019 19:47, Andy Burns wrote:
TimW wrote:

You could always get pcs without an OS

Then you'll be paying over £100 for a genuine Win10 licence to go with
it (and don't get fooled that anything cheaper is is legit).


You mean fooled by Microsoft saying it is legit?

I have bought many cheap Win7 and win10 licences for about £20. I
activate them with Microsoft. I buy them from a company called
softwaregeeks and have been using them for over three years.

https://softwaregeeks.co.uk/product-category/windows-10/

So in what way are they not legit?

Paul Welsh wrote:

I have bought many cheap Win7 and win10 licences for about £20. I
activate them with Microsoft. I buy them from a company called
softwaregeeks and have been using them for over three years.

https://softwaregeeks.co.uk/product-category/windows-10/

The wayback machine shows that the softwaregeeks.co.uk website
originally listed a company name "Bonodo Ltd", that was struck off in
October 2017.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09548993/filing-history
wayback then shows a company called "Geeks Ent Ltd"

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10599124/filing-history

But the current website and nominet claims the company/domain is
owned/registered by "softwaregeeks.co.uk GmbH" though no such company is
shown on the Unternehmens Register

https://www.unternehmensregister.de/ureg/result.html

I suspect the domain has been snapped-up and is being used by
fly-by-nights since the original company folded ...

The company "Software Geeks Ltd" (which may or not be related) was
registered and struck off without ever filing any return

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09117516/filing-history


A company German website (which may or not be related) shows a
UK owner of "Softwaregeek Ltd"

https://softwaregeek.de/impressum

That hasn't existed long enough to file any accounts

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11495724/filing-history

and is registered down this shady lane

https://goo.gl/maps/jYv6s1f9d4s

where they share an address with several other companies with a various
foreign owners and a history of being struck off

https://suite.endole.co.uk/explorer/postcode/tn21-8tr

So in what way are they not legit?

It all smells iffy to me, what sort of invoices did you get?

On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 22:30:00 +0000, Paul Welsh wrote:

On 15/02/2019 19:47, Andy Burns wrote:
TimW wrote:

You could always get pcs without an OS

Then you'll be paying over £100 for a genuine Win10 licence to go with
it (and don't get fooled that anything cheaper is is legit).


You mean fooled by Microsoft saying it is legit?

I have bought many cheap Win7 and win10 licences for about £20. I
activate them with Microsoft. I buy them from a company called
softwaregeeks and have been using them for over three years.

https://softwaregeeks.co.uk/product-category/windows-10/

So in what way are they not legit?

If it activates, it's legit. Nice link by the way!

On 15/02/2019 22:30, Paul Welsh wrote:
On 15/02/2019 19:47, Andy Burns wrote:
TimW wrote:

You could always get pcs without an OS

Then you'll be paying over £100 for a genuine Win10 licence to go with
it (and don't get fooled that anything cheaper is is legit).


You mean fooled by Microsoft saying it is legit?

I have bought many cheap Win7 and win10 licences for about £20. I
activate them with Microsoft. I buy them from a company called
softwaregeeks and have been using them for over three years.

https://softwaregeeks.co.uk/product-category/windows-10/

So in what way are they not legit?

To quote the site in question: "The product comes with step-by-step
instructions for installation/activation, along with a volume license
product key"

So basically its a volume license key version of windows. Not licensed
for resale. To use it legitimately you would need to have a Volume
licensing program agreement in place with MS. [1]

For comparison, my *trade* price on Win 10 Home x64 is £78.13 ex VAT.


[1] From:

https://www.microsoft.com/Licensing/...ls.aspx?id=201

What are Product Keys?
A Product Key enables use of a software product you have licensed under
a specific Volume Licensing program. The Product Keys listed in the VLSC
should be used with only Volume License products and are intended for
use by your organization only.



--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 11:28:51 +0000, TimW wrote:

Then you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student
or a connection to a charity.

Not for Win10, download the ISO, install and use (after switching off
cortina and the nagging to setup onedrive, etc).

Win10 doesn't *need* to be "activated", it all works apart from the
"personalisation". You do have a lower right corner on screen text
asking you to activate windows but that's easy to ignore.

Unless things have changed in the last couple of years. This free use
of Win10 was fairly easy to find just after it was released, couple
of years ago it was getting a bit buried, these days I guess it's in
the basement with a tiger.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 16/02/2019 10:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 11:28:51 +0000, TimW wrote:

Then you will need a windows license pref at a discount via a student
or a connection to a charity.

Not for Win10, download the ISO, install and use (after switching off
cortina and the nagging to setup onedrive, etc).

Win10 doesn't *need* to be "activated", it all works apart from the
"personalisation". You do have a lower right corner on screen text
asking you to activate windows but that's easy to ignore.

Unless things have changed in the last couple of years. This free use
of Win10 was fairly easy to find just after it was released, couple
of years ago it was getting a bit buried, these days I guess it's in
the basement with a tiger.


I have one machine without a valid licence, this has this activation
symbol. It was a Win 7 laptop that I tried to upgrade free to Win10
years ago, but the upgrade failed due to hardware incompatibility. So I
left it on Win7. Recently the SSD died, so I slapped in a spare SSD with
win10 already installed. The Win10 SSD just worked, perfectly, on the
laptop, apart from the "not activated" message. I feel cheated out of my
free upgrade ;o).

On 14/02/2019 10:37, Caecilius wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.

IME its even easier to install Linux Mint and never have hte bloatware
again and get abouut a 10:1 performance increase


--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

Well maybe maybe not. I tend to not let them onto the net until I've
uninstalled all I can.

avast is a bit of an issue as avastclear can damage the registry or so it
seems. Mind you the damage mainly affects some APIs for screenreader use
most of the time.
Also beware removing office and reinstalling it, as this too has problems.
Whatever you get though get an SSD main drive on it.
Also get a back up drive that you can unplug.

I seem to recall a web site I stumbled across with the main list of
bloatware updated periodically.
I went to an independent builder and had no bloatware but remember, you pay
more if the profit is made from you rather than the bloatware companies.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on
which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.

On 14/02/2019 19:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well maybe maybe not. I tend to not let them onto the net until I've
uninstalled all I can.

avast is a bit of an issue as avastclear can damage the registry or
so it seems. Mind you the damage mainly affects some APIs for
screenreader use most of the time. Also beware removing office and
reinstalling it, as this too has problems. Whatever you get though
get an SSD main drive on it. Also get a back up drive that you can
unplug.

I seem to recall a web site I stumbled across with the main list of
bloatware updated periodically. I went to an independent builder and
had no bloatware but remember, you pay more if the profit is made
from you rather than the bloatware companies. Brian


I reinstalled win10 from a downloaded USB drive last week and it talks
to you for the installation.
You can also tell it the answers if your mic is working.

On Thursday, 14 February 2019 19:15:21 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I went to an independent builder and had no bloatware but remember, you pay
more if the profit is made from you rather than the bloatware companies.
Brian

this is nonsense of course, the cheapest suppliers don't waste their time/money creating bloated OS installs.

On 15/02/2019 08:59, wrote:
On Thursday, 14 February 2019 19:15:21 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I went to an independent builder and had no bloatware but remember, you pay
more if the profit is made from you rather than the bloatware companies.
Brian

this is nonsense of course, the cheapest suppliers don't waste their time/money creating bloated OS installs.

They do if they are accepting sponsorship from the suppliers of the
bloatware. Why do you think so many new systems come with partially
functional commercial applications pre-loaded.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 15 February 2019 10:00:49 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/02/2019 08:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 14 February 2019 19:15:21 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I went to an independent builder and had no bloatware but remember, you pay
more if the profit is made from you rather than the bloatware companies.
Brian

this is nonsense of course, the cheapest suppliers don't waste their time/money creating bloated OS installs.

They do if they are accepting sponsorship from the suppliers of the
bloatware. Why do you think so many new systems come with partially
functional commercial applications pre-loaded.

those are not the cheapest suppliers.


NT

wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

I went to an independent builder and had no bloatware but remember, you
pay more if the profit is made from you rather than the bloatware
companies.

this is nonsense of course,

We'll see...

the cheapest suppliers don't waste their time/money creating bloated OS
installs.

But the cheapest PC manufacturers do.

Caecilius wrote:

IME it's easier to install a clean copy of Windows and add in the
required drivers than it is to remove all the bloatware.

+1

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page wrote:

Just accept that most new windows 10 PCs' come with junk installed.

AFAIK you can reinstall a clean copy of Windows 10 on any windows 10 PC
that has already been authorised/"finger printed" by MS.

I have fixed a couple of PC's that were orginally windows 8 and then
updated to windows 10 before failing.
Re installing Windows 10 from the MS ISO proved to be painless.
Both machines automatically "authorised".

On 14/02/2019 10:41, Richard wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page wrote:

Just accept that most new windows 10 PCs' come with junk installed.

AFAIK you can reinstall a clean copy of Windows 10 on any windows 10 PC
that has already been authorised/"finger printed" by MS.

I have fixed a couple of PC's that were orginally windows 8 and then
updated to windows 10 before failing.
Re installing Windows 10 from the MS ISO proved to be painless.
Both machines automatically "authorised".

and if you have a properly activated Win 7 or 8.1 machine it will
upgrade to 10 without any hassle even though the "free" upgrade period
is technically over.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:41, Richard wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page wrote:

Just accept that most new windows 10 PCs' come with junk installed.

AFAIK you can reinstall a clean copy of Windows 10 on any windows 10 PC
that has already been authorised/"finger printed" by MS.

I have fixed a couple of PC's that were orginally windows 8 and then
updated to windows 10 before failing.
Re installing Windows 10 from the MS ISO proved to be painless.
Both machines automatically "authorised".

and if you have a properly activated Win 7 or 8.1 machine it will
upgrade to 10 without any hassle even though the "free" upgrade period
is technically over.

This machine that I'm using startted life running Win7 - now on Win10. But
a laptop really didn't like the upgrade due to memory limitations.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 14/02/2019 18:55, charles wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2019 10:41, Richard wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page wrote:

Just accept that most new windows 10 PCs' come with junk installed.

AFAIK you can reinstall a clean copy of Windows 10 on any windows 10 PC
that has already been authorised/"finger printed" by MS.

I have fixed a couple of PC's that were orginally windows 8 and then
updated to windows 10 before failing.
Re installing Windows 10 from the MS ISO proved to be painless.
Both machines automatically "authorised".

and if you have a properly activated Win 7 or 8.1 machine it will
upgrade to 10 without any hassle even though the "free" upgrade period
is technically over.

This machine that I'm using startted life running Win7 - now on Win10. But
a laptop really didn't like the upgrade due to memory limitations.


Win10 runs alright on a laptop with 1G of RAM and a 60GB disk with a 600
MHz celeron CPU.
Its a bit slow to boot so I don't reboot it just suspend it.

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?


The effort* in removing bloatware is better spent on a platform that you
have much more control of, i.e. Linux or Mac. Performing day to day
activities is very straightforward on these, no game playing rituals
required.

* Basically, on a machine with digital entitlement to run Windows 10,
the process is to download the equivalent non-OEM tampered vanilla
version direct from Microsoft, reinstall, and then battle with
powershell (or "settings") to remove apps that MS occasionally spams
your PC with, in every update.

If you want to go that way, you may as well buy a posh second user
Lenovo laptop from a recycler, and enjoy(?) the whole maintenance
experience.

--
Adrian C

On Thursday, 14 February 2019 10:24:13 UTC, Clive Page wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date. We still use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?


You'll get a better deal with a no-name build on ebay. Do check seller ratings & do verify you've received the right specs before doing anything else with it.

Debloating vendor's OSes is not something to recommend. It tends to be impossible. Start with MS Win, or better, linux Mint LTS. Now you have no bloat or malware from the start.


NT

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:24:11 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

snip

Does anyone have experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to remove all the junk?

Any. If running W10 then you can download a copy of W10 installer from
MS and just install a fresh / base copy and only add what you want
yourself. ;-)

https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/downlo...77631-3330946/

The chances are it will detect all the hardware automagically and will
also authenticate itself the first time you go online. I've just done
such on a friends - kids laptop.

Cheers, T i m

On 14/02/2019 11:01, T i m wrote:
Any. If running W10 then you can download a copy of W10 installer from
MS and just install a fresh / base copy and only add what you want
yourself. ;-)

https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/downlo...77631-3330946/

The chances are it will detect all the hardware automagically and will
also authenticate itself the first time you go online. I've just done
such on a friends - kids laptop.

Thanks, that's a good idea.


--
Clive Page

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 11:01:15 +0000, T i m wrote:

... and will also authenticate itself the first time you go online.

You don't even have to do that, ie pay, for Win 10. The only bits
that don't work are the "personalisation" stuff and you have a
"Windows isn't Activated" OWTE bottom right corner.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 10:48:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 11:01:15 +0000, T i m wrote:

... and will also authenticate itself the first time you go online.

You don't even have to do that, ie pay, for Win 10.

They OP wouldn't (anyway) though would he, if the machine came
pre-installed with W10 (and what I was answering).

The only bits
that don't work are the "personalisation" stuff and you have a
"Windows isn't Activated" OWTE bottom right corner.

Oh, ok. Whilst I must have some un-activated machines around here
(test installs etc) I can't remember ever running one like that for
any time because it's so easy to get activated, even from a previous
W7/8/8.1 install.

An elderly mate has an old PC running W7 and it only has an 80G hdd
(that is now full).

I've got him to order a 240G SSD and a 2.5 to 3.5" adaptor tray, plus
an external 1TB USB drive (he has no backups) and my intention is to
backup all his data, swap the HD for SSD and install W10 on the SSD
from scratch. If all goes well we can re-install any apps and restore
his data.

This would probably be after a dog walk as his elderly black lab is a
good influence on our (rescue) 'Borkie' (Beagle / Yorkshire terrier)
.... as even with all of us taking it in turns walking / running him
all day long ... doesn't seem to wear him out but does calm him down a
bit ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:
Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing
and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?




https://www.pcdecrapifier.com/

I have no idea if that is any good?

Clive Page wrote:
From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to
remove all the junk?

There's a thing called Windows Signature Edition, which is just plain
windows preinstalled:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/b/signaturepcs

However you should look at the bloatware as advertising that subsidises the
cost of the PC, because they expect you'll take up all the free trials etc.
If you're willing to do the work to reinstall Windows from a standard DVD,
you get to keep the subsidy as well as get rid of the bloatware.

However, you need to be vigilant for firmware things like:
https://thehackernews.com/2015/08/le...t-malware.html
(I think only Lenovo have been doing this)

THeo

On 14/02/2019 12:35, Theo wrote:
Clive Page wrote:
From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews. Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest to
remove all the junk?

There's a thing called Windows Signature Edition, which is just plain
windows preinstalled:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/b/signaturepcs

However you should look at the bloatware as advertising that subsidises the
cost of the PC, because they expect you'll take up all the free trials etc.
If you're willing to do the work to reinstall Windows from a standard DVD,
you get to keep the subsidy as well as get rid of the bloatware.

However, you need to be vigilant for firmware things like:
https://thehackernews.com/2015/08/le...t-malware.html
(I think only Lenovo have been doing this)

THeo

They abandoned it a long time ago, thankfully.

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:
Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing
and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?


IME Lenovo have less blotware than others, to the degree that I don't
bother doing a clean install on them, unlike others, but that isn't hard
to do if you want to.

Windows 10 itself is a bit bloaty. Take a look at

https://www.oueta.com/microsoft/how-...om-windows-10/

Chris Bartram wrote:
IME Lenovo have less blotware than others, to the degree that I don't
bother doing a clean install on them, unlike others, but that isn't hard
to do if you want to.

I'd say Lenovo is the brand that absolutely needs a clean install, due to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish

A number of tech people have never-Lenovo policies after this (and the other
rootkit I mentioned).

Theo

On Thursday, 14 February 2019 13:31:31 UTC, Theo wrote:
Chris Bartram wrote:
IME Lenovo have less blotware than others, to the degree that I don't
bother doing a clean install on them, unlike others, but that isn't hard
to do if you want to.

I'd say Lenovo is the brand that absolutely needs a clean install, due to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish

A number of tech people have never-Lenovo policies after this (and the other
rootkit I mentioned).

Theo

More recent Lenovos have been much better. Don't think you really need anything except their Vantage tool to make it easy to get firmware and drivers.

Currently the worst of the big boys seem to be HP. Not only lots of things like JumpStart but several which several items which are known to interfere with other software.

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:
Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing
and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?


My last three or four desktop machines have been "refurbished" medium to
high end Dells from banking / server farm type environments. They seem
to come with completely clean installs. Amazon or ebay, taking note of
volumes and feedback.

On 14/02/2019 10:24, Clive Page wrote:

Our desktop PC is showing signs of senility - it's running Windows XP
from which you can tell that it's well past it's use-by date.Â*Â* We still
use it as a file and backup server and for occasional word processing
and spreadsheet work, but don't need high performance.

There seem to be quite a number of machines costing up to £350 that look
suitable, from brands like Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Packard-Bell, etc.

From experience in buying laptops in recent years, I think the main
deciding factor may be how much bloatware is pre-installed but it's hard
to assess that from vendors descriptions or reviews.Â* Does anyone have
experience of which brands are least infested, or on which it's easiest
to remove all the junk?

Having bought shed loads of HP and Lenovo laptops in recent years, it
has to be said that the included crapware is relatively minimal these
days. Usually a bit of warranty nagware, and 3 month demo version of
McCafee, or Norton. All relatively easy to dispose of.

I would expect[1] their off the shelf desktop machines to be similar in
software fit.

[1] I buy desktop machines from a system builder, and they don't preload
anything.

The main impact on performance is whether it has a SSD or not as its
main drive, and what CPU you choose. Mid spec i5, SSD, and 8GB will sail
through pretty much any business or productivity application.


--
Cheers,

John.

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