Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts to age?

On 12/02/2019 17:49, misterroy wrote:
Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts to age?

Miele
Or accept a 3 year lifespan

--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

None of them.
They are all designed to last about 7 years, mostly five if its a busy
household.
Normally the product redesign cycle is around 18 months with a guess at
spares being made rather randomly when a range or model is stopped.
Thus my feeling is that unless you can find one that you know will be
introduction that long into the future your guess is as good as anyone
elses.
Brian

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"misterroy" wrote in message
...
Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts
to age?

On 12/02/2019 17:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:49, misterroy wrote:
Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it
starts to age?

Miele
Or accept a 3 year lifespan


Complete bull****

My bottom of the range Indisit is still running fine and its just coming
up for its 7th birthday. Used on average twice a week and it's had zero
repairs.

I could probably buy 4 to 5 machines for the price of Miele. I could
probably buy a new machine for the price of a Meile spare part.

My reason for bottom of range is that I will never use the dozens of
extra bells and whistles that the top of range and more expensive
machine come with.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 12/02/2019 18:39, alan_m wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:49, misterroy wrote:
Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it
starts to age?

Miele
Or accept a 3 year lifespan


Complete bull****

My bottom of the range Indisit is still running fine and its just coming
up for its 7th birthday. Used on average twice a week and it's had zero
repairs.

I could probably buy 4 to 5 machines for the price of Miele. I could
probably buy a new machine for the price of a Meile spare part.

My reason for bottom of range is that I will never use the dozens of
extra bells and whistles that the top of range and more expensive
machine come with.



Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...



Ok I will say most washing machines at twice a week will do 10 years
whereas most dishwashers once a day are dead in 3...



--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

Brian Gaff wrote

None of them.
They are all designed to last about 7 years, mostly five if its a busy
household.

Bull****.

Normally the product redesign cycle is around 18 months with a guess at
spares being made rather randomly when a range or model is stopped.
Thus my feeling is that unless you can find one that you know will be
introduction that long into the future your guess is as good as anyone
elses.

No guess involved if you can find someone who repairs them
and see what they say about which are more repairable.

And it isnt hard to work it out for yourself at times.
The latest Bosch dishwashers have a combined
pump and heater which costs more to replace if
it fails than a whole new Bosch dishwasher.

"misterroy" wrote in message
...
Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts
to age?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/02/2019 18:39, alan_m wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:49, misterroy wrote:
Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it
starts to age?

Miele
Or accept a 3 year lifespan


Complete bull****

My bottom of the range Indisit is still running fine and its just coming
up for its 7th birthday. Used on average twice a week and it's had zero
repairs.

I could probably buy 4 to 5 machines for the price of Miele. I could
probably buy a new machine for the price of a Meile spare part.

My reason for bottom of range is that I will never use the dozens of
extra bells and whistles that the top of range and more expensive machine
come with.



Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them.

Mine doesnt. It somehow manages to balance the load
automatically. Top loader.

Only Miele fit them...

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:49:36 -0800 (PST), misterroy
wrote:

Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts to age?

There was a range of machines where reparability was built into the
'concept' and parts were supposed to be available outside warranty at
cost plus_a_bit, not 'whatever we can get away with'.

This would be in direct contrast with the 13 month old Zanussi machine
we picked up on Freecycle that was an insurance write-off because it's
design meant it wasn't 'economical to repair (the main bearings)'. We
repaired it (for little) and got another 7 years out of it?

Unfortunately, too many people seem to be quite willing or even keen
to buy new appliances after just a few years, even if they are still
working ok? ;-(

So what chance (commercially) was there for something that could last
(have an extendable MTBF via cheap parts and labour), especially if it
was a bit more expensive (comparatively) in the first place?

So what gets me is that we have so much 'choice', many manufacturers
selling similar spec models at similar prices where I suspect 'most
people' would be happy with just a few models to cater for different
needs.

Or do (more) of what the car and printer manufacturers do and just
change the cosmetics and name but use a fairly common platform (and so
share spares etc (Zannusi / AEG etc)).

As mentioned elsewhere, I wonder how many of is might buy the cheapest
machine that ticks the basic / minimum boxes and comes at good price
and with a good reputation? How many people buy the most expensive
machines and then use most of the features?

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:49:36 -0800, misterroy wrote:

Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts
to age?

Answering your actual question, which wasn't about working life but about
easy to DIY fix...

I have a lot of Bosch stuff. I have never had trouble getting spare parts
(directly from Bosch in 48 hours usually).

Their website has useful exploded diagrams and parts lists, too. If
necessary one can then Google the part number and get the part elsewhere,
although I seldom bother.

I have gone for the upmarket models in each case (Logixx). First Bosch
dishwasher lasted 13-15 years (I forget exactly) and whatever failed
eventually wasn't economic to repair (well, it was, just, but by that
time...)

Most of the other Bosch kit has required little, although I had to
replace the pump on the washing machine because I hadn't cleaned the
gunge out of it and then I couldn't get the pump undone because of that.
I do now have a spare, used, pump though.

The coffee machine just developed a minor fault (down to me again). New
part on its way, although the fault now seems to have corrected itself!




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My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 12/02/2019 19:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...


I took apart my previous machine, a cheap Hotpoint, and that had shock
absorbers.

If more modern machines don't have them, as you indicate, and they don't
bounce all over the kitchen then perhaps they don't need them. Most(all)
machines these days have methods of attempting to balance loads for the
spin cycle.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 19:36:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...

Every washing machine I've repaired / stripped down came with form of
shock absorber.

The tub is generally suspended from the top on a series of springs and
aligned / supported at the bottom by a pair of dampers (or spring /
damper units).

Cheers, T i m

On 12/02/2019 17:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:49, misterroy wrote:
Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it
starts to age?

Miele
Or accept a 3 year lifespan


Miele only have 2 year guarantees right now.

Some makes have 3 or 5 year warranties.

--
Email does not work

On 12/02/2019 17:49, misterroy wrote:
Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts to age?

I'm on my second Bosch washing machine and dishwasher after about 20
years. Both "new" ones are still going strong. I have replaced motor
brushes on the washing machines once or (possibly) twice. I had to poke
around in dishwasher plumbing once, some sort of stuck float IIRC. Oh,
and I've just replaced a couple of dishwasher tray rollers (with third
party ones).

On 12/02/2019 21:01, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:49:36 -0800, misterroy wrote:

Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts
to age?

Answering your actual question, which wasn't about working life but about
easy to DIY fix...

I have a lot of Bosch stuff. I have never had trouble getting spare parts
(directly from Bosch in 48 hours usually).

Their website has useful exploded diagrams and parts lists, too. If
necessary one can then Google the part number and get the part elsewhere,
although I seldom bother.

I have gone for the upmarket models in each case (Logixx). First Bosch
dishwasher lasted 13-15 years (I forget exactly) and whatever failed
eventually wasn't economic to repair (well, it was, just, but by that
time...)

Most of the other Bosch kit has required little, although I had to
replace the pump on the washing machine because I hadn't cleaned the
gunge out of it and then I couldn't get the pump undone because of that.
I do now have a spare, used, pump though.


Exactly echoes my experience, also posted above but less succinctly.

On 12/02/2019 21:07, alan_m wrote:
On 12/02/2019 19:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...


I took apart my previous machine, a cheap Hotpoint, and that had shock
absorbers.

If more modern machines don't have them, as you indicate, and they don't
bounce all over the kitchen then perhaps they don't need them. Most(all)
machines these days have methods of attempting to balance loads for the
spin cycle.

Our Hotpoint sometimes jumps forward 4 or 5" after bouncing off the wall
and the tumble dryer when a spin starts. Last year a drum support spring
snapped. Easily replaced and not expensive.

So far it has lasted at least 8 years (I can't remember when we bought
it, but it was before our tumble dryer and that was bought in 2011). It
is normally used twice a day much of the time (three kids!)

SteveW

On 12/02/2019 23:50, Pamela wrote:
On 23:08 12 Feb 2019, Steve Walker wrote:

On 12/02/2019 21:07, alan_m wrote:
On 12/02/2019 19:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...


I took apart my previous machine, a cheap Hotpoint, and that had shock
absorbers.

If more modern machines don't have them, as you indicate, and they don't
bounce all over the kitchen then perhaps they don't need them. Most(all)
machines these days have methods of attempting to balance loads for the
spin cycle.

Our Hotpoint sometimes jumps forward 4 or 5" after bouncing off the wall
and the tumble dryer when a spin starts.

Wow. Must be a sight to see.

It certainly makes you jump at times!

I do keep meaning to install a wooden strip across the floor to keep the
dishwasher, tumble dryer and washing machine in a straight line -
meanwhile we just keep pushing them back.

SteveW

On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 19:36:04 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2019 18:39, alan_m wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:49, misterroy wrote:

Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it
starts to age?

Miele
Or accept a 3 year lifespan


Complete bull****

My bottom of the range Indisit is still running fine and its just coming
up for its 7th birthday. Used on average twice a week and it's had zero
repairs.

I could probably buy 4 to 5 machines for the price of Miele. I could
probably buy a new machine for the price of a Meile spare part.

My reason for bottom of range is that I will never use the dozens of
extra bells and whistles that the top of range and more expensive
machine come with.



Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...

All mine have had shock absorbers, from 1970s to present


Ok I will say most washing machines at twice a week will do 10 years
whereas most dishwashers once a day are dead in 3...

My last dw managed 30


NT

On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 21:00:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:49:36 -0800 (PST), misterroy
wrote:

Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts to age?

There was a range of machines where reparability was built into the
'concept' and parts were supposed to be available outside warranty at
cost plus_a_bit, not 'whatever we can get away with'.

This would be in direct contrast with the 13 month old Zanussi machine
we picked up on Freecycle that was an insurance write-off because it's
design meant it wasn't 'economical to repair (the main bearings)'. We
repaired it (for little) and got another 7 years out of it?

Unfortunately, too many people seem to be quite willing or even keen
to buy new appliances after just a few years, even if they are still
working ok? ;-(

So what chance (commercially) was there for something that could last
(have an extendable MTBF via cheap parts and labour), especially if it
was a bit more expensive (comparatively) in the first place?

It was £800, too much.


So what gets me is that we have so much 'choice', many manufacturers
selling similar spec models at similar prices where I suspect 'most
people' would be happy with just a few models to cater for different
needs.

Or do (more) of what the car and printer manufacturers do and just
change the cosmetics and name but use a fairly common platform (and so
share spares etc (Zannusi / AEG etc)).

dishwashers used to be like that


As mentioned elsewhere, I wonder how many of is might buy the cheapest
machine that ticks the basic / minimum boxes and comes at good price
and with a good reputation? How many people buy the most expensive
machines and then use most of the features?

Cheers, T i m

Russian goods are designed more for repairability. Perhaps there is a Rigonda washing machine in 1950s colours waiting to be imported.


NT

On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 21:07:23 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 19:36:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...

Every washing machine I've repaired / stripped down came with form of
shock absorber.

The tub is generally suspended from the top on a series of springs and
aligned / supported at the bottom by a pair of dampers (or spring /
damper units).

Cheers, T i m

Tubs are supported from underneath by heavy springs, and damped by hsbc absorbers. The little top springs just reduce the sideways movement some, machines still work with them disconnected.


NT

On Wednesday, 13 February 2019 04:58:40 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 21:00:54 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:49:36 -0800 (PST), misterroy
wrote:

Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts to age?

There was a range of machines where reparability was built into the
'concept' and parts were supposed to be available outside warranty at
cost plus_a_bit, not 'whatever we can get away with'.

This would be in direct contrast with the 13 month old Zanussi machine
we picked up on Freecycle that was an insurance write-off because it's
design meant it wasn't 'economical to repair (the main bearings)'. We
repaired it (for little) and got another 7 years out of it?

Unfortunately, too many people seem to be quite willing or even keen
to buy new appliances after just a few years, even if they are still
working ok? ;-(

So what chance (commercially) was there for something that could last
(have an extendable MTBF via cheap parts and labour), especially if it
was a bit more expensive (comparatively) in the first place?

It was £800, too much.


So what gets me is that we have so much 'choice', many manufacturers
selling similar spec models at similar prices where I suspect 'most
people' would be happy with just a few models to cater for different
needs.

Or do (more) of what the car and printer manufacturers do and just
change the cosmetics and name but use a fairly common platform (and so
share spares etc (Zannusi / AEG etc)).

dishwashers used to be like that


As mentioned elsewhere, I wonder how many of is might buy the cheapest
machine that ticks the basic / minimum boxes and comes at good price
and with a good reputation? How many people buy the most expensive
machines and then use most of the features?

Cheers, T i m

Russian goods are designed more for repairability. Perhaps there is a Rigonda washing machine in 1950s colours waiting to be imported.


NT

Vyatka Automat also sold as a Lemair.

There was also the 1950s VSP - nothing more tha an immersible vibrator.

"Now in stores is about 40 models (WS 510 SYW, Simplicity WA 610 SYW, ONE WS 623 W, WT 63110, W 6843 L / S, WT 63130, WS 512 SYB, WT 63090, and others). The cost of washing machines in the range 14.000-21.000 rubles (430-650 dollars).


NT

On Tuesday, February 12, 2019 at 6:39:26 PM UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:49, misterroy wrote:
Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it
starts to age?

Miele
Or accept a 3 year lifespan


Complete bull****

My bottom of the range Indisit is still running fine and its just coming
up for its 7th birthday. Used on average twice a week and it's had zero
repairs.

I could probably buy 4 to 5 machines for the price of Miele. I could
probably buy a new machine for the price of a Meile spare part.

My reason for bottom of range is that I will never use the dozens of
extra bells and whistles that the top of range and more expensive
machine come with.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

We keep the Miele wasshing machines for up to 10 years. Trouble free. And then sell them for up to £200 . SWMBO is fastidious. Runs the washing machine 3-4 time a week. The last non Miele, loong time ago, was a Hoover. Endless tyrouble over the first year.\Lesson learned

On 12/02/2019 22:16, newshound wrote:
On 12/02/2019 21:01, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:49:36 -0800, misterroy wrote:

Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it starts
to age?

Answering your actual question, which wasn't about working life but about
easy to DIY fix...

I have a lot of Bosch stuff. I have never had trouble getting spare parts
(directly from Bosch in 48 hours usually).

Their website has useful exploded diagrams and parts lists, too. If
necessary one can then Google the part number and get the part elsewhere,
although I seldom bother.

I have gone for the upmarket models in each case (Logixx). First Bosch
dishwasher lasted 13-15 years (I forget exactly) and whatever failed
eventually wasn't economic to repair (well, it was, just, but by that
time...)

Most of the other Bosch kit has required little, although I had to
replace the pump on the washing machine because I hadn't cleaned the
gunge out of it and then I couldn't get the pump undone because of that.
I do now have a spare, used, pump though.


Exactly echoes my experience, also posted above but less succinctly.

I scrapped a three year old bosch dishwasher after spending 200 on
getting it fixed only for the same fault to reoccur

Never touch bosch again. YThey have gone the way of all whitegood
'brands' - downhill.


--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

Complete bull****

My bottom of the range Indisit is still running fine and its just coming
up for its 7th birthday. Used on average twice a week and it's had zero
repairs.

I could probably buy 4 to 5 machines for the price of Miele. I could
probably buy a new machine for the price of a Meile spare part.

My reason for bottom of range is that I will never use the dozens of
extra bells and whistles that the top of range and more expensive
machine come with.




My Indesit is at least 11 years old. If it goes wrong I buy another. It is
value for money - and Value Engineering.

If more modern machines don't have them, as you indicate, and they don't
bounce all over the kitchen then perhaps they don't need them. Most(all)
machines these days have methods of attempting to balance loads for the
spin cycle.


Many people don't take the trouble to properly adkist the feet. They don't
cance around if the feet are properly adjusted.

I do keep meaning to install a wooden strip across the floor to keep
the dishwasher, tumble dryer and washing machine in a straight line -
meanwhile we just keep pushing them back.

SteveW

Steve - adjust the feet until it does not rock.

People get very hung up on Badge Names. The reality is of course that a
washing machine is an assembly of parts from the Supply Chain. Even the
design was possibly contracted out.

If you like it buy it.

All will be designed to survive for a reasonable period.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/02/2019 22:16, newshound wrote:
On 12/02/2019 21:01, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:49:36 -0800, misterroy wrote:

Time has arrived for a new washing machine.
Any advice as to which one to get so that it can be fixed when it
starts
to age?

Answering your actual question, which wasn't about working life but
about
easy to DIY fix...

I have a lot of Bosch stuff. I have never had trouble getting spare
parts
(directly from Bosch in 48 hours usually).

Their website has useful exploded diagrams and parts lists, too. If
necessary one can then Google the part number and get the part
elsewhere,
although I seldom bother.

I have gone for the upmarket models in each case (Logixx). First Bosch
dishwasher lasted 13-15 years (I forget exactly) and whatever failed
eventually wasn't economic to repair (well, it was, just, but by that
time...)

Most of the other Bosch kit has required little, although I had to
replace the pump on the washing machine because I hadn't cleaned the
gunge out of it and then I couldn't get the pump undone because of that.
I do now have a spare, used, pump though.


Exactly echoes my experience, also posted above but less succinctly.

I scrapped a three year old bosch dishwasher after spending 200 on getting
it fixed only for the same fault to reoccur

Mine continues to work fine and I got it for $50 at a garage
sale from someone who had rebuilt their kitchen and sold
it because it didnt match the new cupboards etc.

Never touch bosch again. YThey have gone the way of all whitegood
'brands' - downhill.

Mine hasnt.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:01:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 21:07:23 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 19:36:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...

Every washing machine I've repaired / stripped down came with form of
shock absorber.

The tub is generally suspended from the top on a series of springs and
aligned / supported at the bottom by a pair of dampers (or spring /
damper units).

Cheers, T i m

Tubs are supported from underneath by heavy springs,

'Some tubs' possibly. The one I took apart recently certainly didn't
as I disconnected the dampers from the chassis and the tub stayed in
the same place.

and damped by hsbc absorbers.

And / or concrete to some degree.

In fact I would suggest *most* of the damping was done by the concrete
and a bit more was supplied by the dampers, along with some alignment.

The springs support the mass whilst the damping keeps the tub from
hitting the inside of the cabinet.

The little top springs just reduce the sideways movement some, machines still work with them disconnected.

If they are little I doubt they can do much to hold a tub and load in
place against an unbalanced spin buildup.

The springs I took out of the last WM I took to bits were the size of
those springs you see on garden gate self closer's (mind you, it was a
pretty old machine). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 20:58:38 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

So what chance (commercially) was there for something that could last
(have an extendable MTBF via cheap parts and labour), especially if it
was a bit more expensive (comparatively) in the first place?

It was £800, too much.

I remember there being several models and I don't remember the 'Basic'
machine being *that* much more expensive than any std machine? Can you
remember the brand OOI (I think it was 3 letters)?


So what gets me is that we have so much 'choice', many manufacturers
selling similar spec models at similar prices where I suspect 'most
people' would be happy with just a few models to cater for different
needs.

Or do (more) of what the car and printer manufacturers do and just
change the cosmetics and name but use a fairly common platform (and so
share spares etc (Zannusi / AEG etc)).

dishwashers used to be like that

I can't say I've had that many dealings with DW's to comment. We have
had a couple and I think the first one just rusted away (but was still
running etc).


As mentioned elsewhere, I wonder how many of is might buy the cheapest
machine that ticks the basic / minimum boxes and comes at good price
and with a good reputation? How many people buy the most expensive
machines and then use most of the features?


Russian goods are designed more for repairability.

Still?

Perhaps there is a Rigonda washing machine in 1950s colours waiting to be imported.

Fully retro. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

DerbyBorn wrote

People get very hung up on Badge Names. The reality is of course that
a washing machine is an assembly of parts from the Supply Chain.

Not all of them are.

Even the design was possibly contracted out.

Not all of them are that either.

If you like it buy it.

Doesn’t say anything useful about how often it
will need to be repaired or the cost of the parts.

All will be designed to survive for a reasonable period.

Its more complicated than that.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:01:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 21:07:23 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 19:36:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...

Every washing machine I've repaired / stripped down came with form of
shock absorber.

The tub is generally suspended from the top on a series of springs and
aligned / supported at the bottom by a pair of dampers (or spring /
damper units).

Cheers, T i m

Tubs are supported from underneath by heavy springs,

'Some tubs' possibly. The one I took apart recently certainly didn't
as I disconnected the dampers from the chassis and the tub stayed in
the same place.

and damped by hsbc absorbers.

And / or concrete to some degree.

In fact I would suggest *most* of the damping was done by the concrete

No concrete in any of mine.

and a bit more was supplied by the dampers, along with some alignment.

The springs support the mass whilst the damping keeps the tub from
hitting the inside of the cabinet.

The little top springs just reduce the sideways movement some, machines
still work with them disconnected.

If they are little I doubt they can do much to hold a tub and load in
place against an unbalanced spin buildup.

The springs I took out of the last WM I took to bits were the size of
those springs you see on garden gate self closer's (mind you, it was a
pretty old machine). ;-)

On 13/02/2019 09:22, DerbyBorn wrote:
People get very hung up on Badge Names. The reality is of course that a
washing machine is an assembly of parts from the Supply Chain. Even the
design was possibly contracted out.

If you like it buy it.

All will be designed to survive for a reasonable period.

= the two year guarantee period.

Then the cost of fixing will exceed the cost of a new machine.


--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 13/02/2019 09:37, 2987fr wrote:
DerbyBorn wrote

People get very hung up on Badge Names. The reality is of course that
a washing machine is an assembly of parts from the Supply Chain.

Not all of them are.

Even the design was possibly contracted out.

Not all of them are that either.

If you like it buy it.

Doesnt say anything useful about how often it
will need to be repaired or the cost of the parts.

All will be designed to survive for a reasonable period.

Its more complicated than that.
When the repair man came to try (and fail) and fix the Bosch dishwasher,
it had a pump assembly from an italian company. He said there were only
three European manufacturers of the pump assemblies. Going into a dozen
brand names....

And all of them were ****.


--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

We have had a number of Bosch appliances and the as some have already pointed out the exploded diagrams on their website and the ability to get spare parts from them often cheaper than some of the so called discount part suppliers is a big plus. Our latest WM is a Bosch replacing a Siemens of 15+ years although the same manufacturer the Siemens was a much better build quality at least from the structural parts which tended to be much thicker metal whether the electrical components were any different than other machines they produce I do not know but until the last breakdown the only thing I had replaced were worn out brushes despite domestic management using it every second day. The part that failed was the main electronic board and being one of the most expensive parts SWAMBO felt that with its age and the possibility of further expensive repairs down the line to go for new. Quality wise the new machine is like comparing a Panzer 1 to a Tiger tank and I still have a little niggle in my mind about should we have chanced the repair.

Richard

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 00:45:52 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

snip


The brand "ISE" sold washing machines which were designed to be easy to
repair

That was them (asked elsewhere), thanks. ;-)

but they had company problems and stopped trading.

https://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/...the-appliance-
industry/manufacturer-information/2764-ise-appliances

Shame.

The thing is we (present company accepted etc) don't know what we want
until we are told what the cost is of having what we want is. Like, we
all thought that free carrier bags were a good idea until we started
being affected by them. Unfortunately we still thought they were a
good idea until we were asked to pay for them.

However, I still see people coming out of the supermarkets with a
trolley full of brand new single use (for them especially) carrier
bags and I guess they would also be the same people who would replace
their (perfectly functional) kitchen, washing machine or car, just to
stay on trend.

Now in the case of cars, that generally means they will have taken the
biggest depreciation hit and so others who don't have (or want) to
spend that sort of cash can get something at better VFM. Whilst the
same can apply to the likes of kitchen cupboards and whitegoods, I'm
not sure how often it would with 'that sort of person' (them all going
in a skip rather than on Freecycle or even Gumtree eBay etc).

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 13 February 2019 09:27:50 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:01:31 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 21:07:23 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 19:36:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Miele doesnt come with bells and whistles. It comes with - gasp SHOCK
ABSORBERS. Everty washing machine needs them. Only Miele fit them...

Every washing machine I've repaired / stripped down came with form of
shock absorber.

The tub is generally suspended from the top on a series of springs and
aligned / supported at the bottom by a pair of dampers (or spring /
damper units).

Cheers, T i m

Tubs are supported from underneath by heavy springs,

'Some tubs' possibly. The one I took apart recently certainly didn't
as I disconnected the dampers from the chassis and the tub stayed in
the same place.

and damped by hsbc absorbers.

And / or concrete to some degree.

In fact I would suggest *most* of the damping was done by the concrete
and a bit more was supplied by the dampers, along with some alignment.

The springs support the mass whilst the damping keeps the tub from
hitting the inside of the cabinet.

The little top springs just reduce the sideways movement some, machines still work with them disconnected.

If they are little I doubt they can do much to hold a tub and load in
place against an unbalanced spin buildup.

The springs I took out of the last WM I took to bits were the size of
those springs you see on garden gate self closer's (mind you, it was a
pretty old machine). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Yes there are certainly variants. The concrete makes a huge difference to drum movement - a machine run without one is quite out of control. Technically the concrete doesn't damp it.


NT

On Wednesday, 13 February 2019 09:32:35 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 20:58:38 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

So what chance (commercially) was there for something that could last
(have an extendable MTBF via cheap parts and labour), especially if it
was a bit more expensive (comparatively) in the first place?

It was £800, too much.

I remember there being several models and I don't remember the 'Basic'
machine being *that* much more expensive than any std machine? Can you
remember the brand OOI (I think it was 3 letters)?

ISE. They had 2 models at £450 and £800. I vaguely remember the cheaper one not being as attractive repair-wise. Getting one would mean gambling on ISE remaining in production for many decades & not changing their spares prices. And having way longer practical life. One can buy a used machine for 50-100 that should manage 5-10 years so I wasn't convinced. At £10 per year that ISE would need to last 45 years with NO repairs just to break even.


As mentioned elsewhere, I wonder how many of is might buy the cheapest
machine that ticks the basic / minimum boxes and comes at good price
and with a good reputation? How many people buy the most expensive
machines and then use most of the features?


Russian goods are designed more for repairability.

Still?

Haven't bought any in a while. AFAIK the state is still majorly into manufacturing, so it would make sense to continue the policy of repairability.


Perhaps there is a Rigonda washing machine in 1950s colours waiting to be imported.

Fully retro. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Australia imports Vyatkas, they're a modern design.


NT

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 02:44:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

In fact I would suggest *most* of the damping was done by the concrete
and a bit more was supplied by the dampers, along with some alignment.

Yes there are certainly variants. The concrete makes a huge difference to drum movement - a machine run without one is quite out of control.

As a neighbour found out recently when the concrete 'ring' round the
front broke up and (partially) fell out. ;-(

Technically the concrete doesn't damp it.

Anything that resists any oscillation can be considered a damper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper

Cheers, T i m

Worse things are "built in" versions.

Limited choice. Harder to access for maintenance - and why? What is so
objectionable about a washer that needs it to be hidden.

However, I do think it daft that many houses have a boiler on the kitchen
wall. No benefit and it takes up useful space.

T i m wrote:

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 02:44:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

In fact I would suggest *most* of the damping was done by the concrete
and a bit more was supplied by the dampers, along with some alignment.

Yes there are certainly variants. The concrete makes a huge difference to
drum movement - a machine run without one is quite out of control.

As a neighbour found out recently when the concrete 'ring' round the
front broke up and (partially) fell out. ;-(

Technically the concrete doesn't damp it.

Anything that resists any oscillation can be considered a damper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper

Cheers, T i m

An interesting change of use. It is a loss of a word to describe
absorbing energy rather than changing resonant frequency though.

--

Roger Hayter