They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

On 19/08/18 07:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:36:31 +0100, Broadback
wrote:

They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

That's what I understand. TPTB expect you to look at the meter every
few minutes and run around switching off lights, phone chargers etc to
save a few watts. My impression is that most people pretty soon get
bored by them and stop looking, presumably reverting to their former
wasteful or otherwise behaviour.


Yeah. Save £40 something per annum, allegedly - having a larf there. Try
getting a wife and daughter (let alone yourself) to change habits for an
extended time. We all are used to consuming electricity, gas and water
in the manner to which we have become accustomed. Only when these
resources are unavailable will we change.

Maybe the reason for establishment encouragement of smart meter adoption
is so they can cut off supply to force prevention of resource waste.
Family X is consuming 1% more electricity/gas/water than the average for
their type - click, fixed.

On Sunday, 19 August 2018 07:36:34 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

Their ultimate real purpose is energy demand management, in the new world of renewable energy.Tariffs will be instantly adjustable depending on electricity available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

On 19/08/2018 08:19, Richard wrote:

Yeah. Save £40 something per annum, allegedly - having a larf there.

I believe that the official figure has been revised to something like
£15 per annum. However the cost of the smart meter, for which you are
paying for in your bills, has to be factored in. Various recent
estimates put the cost of a smart meter at £400 per household.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

They warn you how much it all is costing you so you rush out and replace all
your lights with leds etc.

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Broadback" wrote in message
news
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they save
electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information given to
save it?

"Richard" wrote in message
news
On 19/08/18 07:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:36:31 +0100, Broadback
wrote:

They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

That's what I understand. TPTB expect you to look at the meter every
few minutes and run around switching off lights, phone chargers etc to
save a few watts. My impression is that most people pretty soon get
bored by them and stop looking, presumably reverting to their former
wasteful or otherwise behaviour.


Yeah. Save £40 something per annum, allegedly - having a larf there. Try
getting a wife and daughter (let alone yourself) to change habits for an
extended time. We all are used to consuming electricity, gas and water in
the manner to which we have become accustomed. Only when these resources
are unavailable will we change.

Thats bull****. I decided that it was mad to be ****ing so much against
the wall with heating in the winter and changed to ****ing much less
against the wall in winter, and that resource continued to be available.

Maybe the reason for establishment encouragement of smart meter adoption
is so they can cut off supply to force prevention of resource waste.

Just another utterly silly conspiracy theory.

Family X is consuming 1% more electricity/gas/water than the average for
their type - click, fixed.

Just another utterly silly conspiracy theory.

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 19:14:59 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

Yeah. Save £40 something per annum, allegedly - having a larf there. Try
getting a wife and daughter (let alone yourself) to change habits for an
extended time. We all are used to consuming electricity, gas and water in
the manner to which we have become accustomed. Only when these resources
are unavailable will we change.

That¢s bull****. I decided that it was mad to be ****ing so much against
the wall with heating in the winter and changed to ****ing much less
against the wall in winter, and that resource continued to be available.

Maybe the reason for establishment encouragement of smart meter adoption
is so they can cut off supply to force prevention of resource waste.

Just another utterly silly conspiracy theory.

Family X is consuming 1% more electricity/gas/water than the average for
their type - click, fixed.

Just another utterly silly conspiracy theory.

Did you take your pills, senile one? You know, I suggest these for you:
https://thetravellingtiles.files.wor...b6f9820001.jpg

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

In article ,
Broadback writes:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

It means customers look at it and get a feel for what consumes the
most electricity in the house, and cut back.

Independant trials have shown this lasts for about a month before
the thrill wears off and the meter is ignored, and after that, the
savings drop back to nearly nothing.

Clip-on power meters have been available for many years which do
this (albeit less accurately), and their impact was identical, so
it comes as no surprise.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 19/08/2018 10:58, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Independant trials have shown this lasts for about a month before
the thrill wears off and the meter is ignored, and after that, the
savings drop back to nearly nothing.

I think the biggest saving will be for the utility companies by not
having to pay for all the meter readers hence they become more profitable.

I have monitored my gas/elec for a few years now and my bills are less
now than 5 years ago, I didnt need a smart meter to do it.

https://imgur.com/a/4j9dLiR

On 19/08/2018 10:58, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Broadback writes:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

It means customers look at it and get a feel for what consumes the
most electricity in the house, and cut back.

Except it doesn't tell you which appliances are using the electricity,
or allow you to see what the average consumption of your fridge/freezer
is, or the total used for an operation such as a wash cycle or cooking
exercise.

Independant trials have shown this lasts for about a month before
the thrill wears off and the meter is ignored, and after that, the
savings drop back to nearly nothing.

I expect this would happen with most people even if they did give any
useful information.

Clip-on power meters have been available for many years which do
this (albeit less accurately), and their impact was identical, so
it comes as no surprise.

Or just look at the spinning disc (if you have an old meter).

--
Max Demian

On 19/08/18 08:54, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 19 August 2018 07:36:34 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

Their ultimate real purpose is energy demand management, in the new world of renewable energy.Tariffs will be instantly adjustable depending on electricity available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

Not quite. instantly adjustable up, long-delayed down. Just like power
supplies and petrol/diesel at present.

That is an interesting Wiki article, though. I thought the examples
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management#Examples) were
particularly informative, and a bit worrying: "The utility companies in
the state of Queensland, Australia have devices fitted onto certain
household appliances such as air conditioners or into household meters
to control water heater, pool pumps etc. These devices would allow
energy companies to remotely cycle the use of these items during peak
hours."

What is the point of having an air conditioner (or heater in cold
climates) if the electric company decides they will switch it off? It
would be bad enough not owning an air conditioner in a heatwave, but
actually having one and just sitting there watching it do nothing
because someone else is controlling it would be especially galling.

--

Jeff

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 11:47:33 +0100
Jeff Layman wrote:

That is an interesting Wiki article, though. I thought the examples
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management#Examples)
were particularly informative, and a bit worrying: "The utility
companies in the state of Queensland, Australia have devices fitted
onto certain household appliances such as air conditioners or into
household meters to control water heater, pool pumps etc. These
devices would allow energy companies to remotely cycle the use of
these items during peak hours."

This is quite common in the States for A/C. For a reduced cost rate,
there is the option for the utility company to shut off the A/C power
for a period of time. In all the time we had this, we never noticed it
being switched off, so it was either for a short enough duration to be
un-noticeable, or was never invoked.

--
Davey.

On 19/08/2018 10:58, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Clip-on power meters have been available for many years which do
this (albeit less accurately), and their impact was identical, so
it comes as no surprise.

+1
I've had a clip on meter for many years. The novelty wore off after
around a week. The only time I now look at it is before leaving the
house for an extended time (holiday etc.) just to see that I haven't
accidentally left something on such as the immersion heater.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 19/08/2018 11:07, ss wrote:
On 19/08/2018 10:58, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Independant trials have shown this lasts for about a month before
the thrill wears off and the meter is ignored, and after that, the
savings drop back to nearly nothing.

I think the biggest saving will be for the utility companies by not
having to pay for all the meter readers hence they become more profitable.

You forget the annual safety checks that the meter readers perform!

I have monitored my gas/elec for a few years now and my bills are less
now than 5 years ago, I didnt need a smart meter to do it.

Is this because you have actively tried to use less energy or that the
winters have been milder than previously and use have used less energy
heating your house?

My energy bills have gone down because in the past year or two I'm
taking more holidays or visiting friends hence using less energy at home.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:43:29 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:36:31 +0100, Broadback
wrote:

They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

That's what I understand. TPTB expect you to look at the meter every
few minutes and run around switching off lights, phone chargers etc to
save a few watts. My impression is that most people pretty soon get
bored by them and stop looking, presumably reverting to their former
wasteful or otherwise behaviour.


In the good old days of electro-mechanical meters there was a nice big
wheel which you could monitor go around. You could see or measure
what happened when you put the kettle on, or as one did in those days,
switched on the electric heater. Which was all fine and dandy but it
didn't give alternatives to boiling the water or from being cold so
even in those days no money was actually saved.


--
AnthonyL

On 19/08/2018 12:26, alan_m wrote:

My energy bills have gone down because in the past year or two I'm
taking more holidays or visiting friends hence using less energy at home.



Then there's sitting in the library reading the paper, and making a half
of mild last all evening in the pub.

Bill

On 19/08/2018 13:32, Bill Wright wrote:
On 19/08/2018 12:26, alan_m wrote:

My energy bills have gone down because in the past year or two I'm
taking more holidays or visiting friends hence using less energy at home.



Then there's sitting in the library reading the paper, and making a half
of mild last all evening in the pub.


All evening? Half a pint would only last me 5 minutes


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article , Broadback
writes
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?
384kwh according to the latest ads on Classic FM. No given that one of
the supposed benefits of SMs is that you can see your usage in "pounds
and pence" why are they giving the potential savings in old money I
wonder? Surely not to confuse people or to save loss of face by having
to reduce their previous over-optimistic claims?
Another question. Is it permitted to have unattributed adverts on radio
- or on any other media platform?
--
bert

In article , Jeff Layman
writes
On 19/08/18 08:54, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 19 August 2018 07:36:34 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?
Their ultimate real purpose is energy demand management, in the new
world of renewable energy.Tariffs will be instantly adjustable
depending on electricity available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

Not quite. instantly adjustable up, long-delayed down. Just like power
supplies and petrol/diesel at present.

That is an interesting Wiki article, though. I thought the examples
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management#Examples)
were particularly informative, and a bit worrying: "The utility
companies in the state of Queensland, Australia have devices fitted
onto certain household appliances such as air conditioners or into
household meters to control water heater, pool pumps etc. These devices
would allow energy companies to remotely cycle the use of these items
during peak hours."

What is the point of having an air conditioner (or heater in cold
climates) if the electric company decides they will switch it off? It
would be bad enough not owning an air conditioner in a heatwave, but
actually having one and just sitting there watching it do nothing
because someone else is controlling it would be especially galling.

Particularly if you have a resident whose body temperature control is
not very effective and would suffer extreme distress without said air
conditioning.
--
bert

Which saves you SFA because you've already got cfls.
In article , Brian Gaff
writes
They warn you how much it all is costing you so you rush out and replace all
your lights with leds etc.

Brian


--
bert

In article , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Broadback writes:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

It means customers look at it and get a feel for what consumes the
most electricity in the house, and cut back.

Each item of my electrical equipment has a little label on it which
gives me that feel. There's also a big EU label which tells me how
energy efficient it is - whatever that means.
Independant trials have shown this lasts for about a month before
the thrill wears off and the meter is ignored, and after that, the
savings drop back to nearly nothing.

Yup
Clip-on power meters have been available for many years which do
this (albeit less accurately), and their impact was identical, so
it comes as no surprise.

Yup
--
bert

Max Demian has brought this to us :
Except it doesn't tell you which appliances are using the electricity, or
allow you to see what the average consumption of your fridge/freezer is, or
the total used for an operation such as a wash cycle or cooking exercise.

You can get plug in logging meters for that, to monitor instantaneous,
hourly, daily and weekly.

On 19/08/2018 09:22, Brian Gaff wrote:
They warn you how much it all is costing you so you rush out and replace all
your lights with leds etc.

Brian

then when they see their profits dip, they put the price up, and so it
goes on and on and on.

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 19/08/2018 12:26, alan_m wrote:

My energy bills have gone down because in the past year or two I'm
taking more holidays or visiting friends hence using less energy at
home.



Then there's sitting in the library reading the paper, and making a half
of mild last all evening in the pub.

going on a bus - with an elderly persons' card - from one of the route to
the other - and again ....

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 19/08/2018 12:26, alan_m wrote:
Is this because you have actively tried to use less energy or that the
winters have been milder than previously and use have used less energy
heating your house?

Both, but I have converted to LED and the heating goes off half hour
earlier, no standbys overnight etc etc.

On 19/08/2018 12:19, alan_m wrote:
On 19/08/2018 10:58, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Clip-on power meters have been available for many years which do
this (albeit less accurately), and their impact was identical, so
it comes as no surprise.

+1
I've had a clip on meter for many years. The novelty wore off after
around a week. The only time I now look at it is before leaving the
house for an extended time (holiday etc.) just to see that I haven't
accidentally left something on such as the immersion heater.

Could you not just have a look at the immersion heater switch:-)?



--
Adam

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:36:31 +0100, Broadback
wrote:

They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

That's what I understand. TPTB expect you to look at the meter every
few minutes and run around switching off lights, phone chargers etc to
save a few watts. My impression is that most people pretty soon get
bored by them and stop looking, presumably reverting to their former
wasteful or otherwise behaviour.

Must be me, but how would any meter persuade me to switch off lights etc I
didn't need? Unless of course you make a habit of leaving things on when
not needed. And can't for the life of me see how a fancy meter would
change that.

--
*A fool and his money are soon partying *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 14:03:26 +0100, bert wrote:

384kwh according to the latest ads on Classic FM. No given that one of
the supposed benefits of SMs is that you can see your usage in "pounds
and pence" why are they giving the potential savings in old money I
wonder?

What's the new money, then?

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 19/08/2018 16:15, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 14:03:26 +0100, bert wrote:

384kwh according to the latest ads on Classic FM. No given that one of
the supposed benefits of SMs is that you can see your usage in "pounds
and pence" why are they giving the potential savings in old money I
wonder?

What's the new money, then?


When the new referendum takes place and we beg to stay in the EU we will
all be using Euros.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 16:56:30 +0100, alan_m wrote:

When the new referendum takes place and we beg to stay in the EU we will
all be using Euros.

Oh yeah, like everyone's going to be stupid enough to fall for the way
that May and that French tosser have endeavoured to make it all appear
like the divorce is *way* too complex to bring to a successful
conclusion! :-D




--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On Sunday, 19 August 2018 11:47:35 UTC+1, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 19/08/18 08:54, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 19 August 2018 07:36:34 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

Their ultimate real purpose is energy demand management, in the new world of renewable energy.Tariffs will be instantly adjustable depending on electricity available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

Not quite. instantly adjustable up, long-delayed down. Just like power
supplies and petrol/diesel at present.

That is an interesting Wiki article, though. I thought the examples
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management#Examples) were
particularly informative, and a bit worrying: "The utility companies in
the state of Queensland, Australia have devices fitted onto certain
household appliances such as air conditioners or into household meters
to control water heater, pool pumps etc. These devices would allow
energy companies to remotely cycle the use of these items during peak
hours."

What is the point of having an air conditioner (or heater in cold
climates) if the electric company decides they will switch it off? It
would be bad enough not owning an air conditioner in a heatwave, but
actually having one and just sitting there watching it do nothing
because someone else is controlling it would be especially galling.

Jeff

They won't switch it off. They will (treble?) the price of electricity it there is a shortfall in supply.

The YOU will turn it off. Or your computer will.

On Sunday, 19 August 2018 13:11:35 UTC+1, AnthonyL wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:43:29 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:36:31 +0100, Broadback
wrote:

They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

That's what I understand. TPTB expect you to look at the meter every
few minutes and run around switching off lights, phone chargers etc to
save a few watts. My impression is that most people pretty soon get
bored by them and stop looking, presumably reverting to their former
wasteful or otherwise behaviour.


In the good old days of electro-mechanical meters there was a nice big
wheel which you could monitor go around. You could see or measure
what happened when you put the kettle on, or as one did in those days,
switched on the electric heater. Which was all fine and dandy but it
didn't give alternatives to boiling the water or from being cold so
even in those days no money was actually saved.


--
AnthonyL

Modern meters have a flashing LED. Flashes once per watthour.

"ss" wrote in message
...
On 19/08/2018 10:58, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Independant trials have shown this lasts for about a month before
the thrill wears off and the meter is ignored, and after that, the
savings drop back to nearly nothing.

I think the biggest saving will be for the utility companies by not having
to pay for all the meter readers hence they become more profitable.

Or charge the consumer less when the wages of meter readers dont have to be
paid for.

I have monitored my gas/elec for a few years now and my bills are less now
than 5 years ago, I didnt need a smart meter to do it.

Sure, but its more convenient with a smart meter and will be possible
to have time of day rates that allow consumers to use the higher power
devices like clothes driers etc when the cost of the energy is lower and
so allow the supplier to supply that energy when its cheaper for them.
A much more sophisticated system than the current off peak system.

https://imgur.com/a/4j9dLiR

With a smartmeter, that is much easier for the consumer to do.

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
news
On 19/08/18 08:54, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 19 August 2018 07:36:34 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

Their ultimate real purpose is energy demand management, in the new world
of renewable energy.Tariffs will be instantly adjustable depending on
electricity available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

Not quite. instantly adjustable up, long-delayed down. Just like power
supplies and petrol/diesel at present.

That is an interesting Wiki article, though. I thought the examples
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management#Examples) were
particularly informative, and a bit worrying: "The utility companies in
the state of Queensland, Australia have devices fitted onto certain
household appliances such as air conditioners or into household meters to
control water heater, pool pumps etc. These devices would allow energy
companies to remotely cycle the use of these items during peak hours."

What is the point of having an air conditioner (or heater in cold
climates) if the electric company decides they will switch it off?

The point is that its better to turn those off for a short time at
the peak of demand that to turn off everything in entire suburbs
when the supply can't keep up with demand at peak times.

It would be bad enough not owning an air conditioner in a heatwave, but
actually having one and just sitting there watching it do nothing because
someone else is controlling it would be especially galling.

Not when its only off for a short time when supply can't keep up with
peak demand. Much better than no power at all.

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 19/08/2018 11:07, ss wrote:
On 19/08/2018 10:58, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Independant trials have shown this lasts for about a month before
the thrill wears off and the meter is ignored, and after that, the
savings drop back to nearly nothing.

I think the biggest saving will be for the utility companies by not
having to pay for all the meter readers hence they become more
profitable.

You forget the annual safety checks that the meter readers perform!

Ours dont do anything like that.

I have monitored my gas/elec for a few years now and my bills are less
now than 5 years ago, I didnt need a smart meter to do it.

Is this because you have actively tried to use less energy or that the
winters have been milder than previously and use have used less energy
heating your house?

My energy bills have gone down because in the past year or two I'm taking
more holidays or visiting friends hence using less energy at home.

Irrelevant to others who dont do that.

"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Jeff Layman
writes
On 19/08/18 08:54, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 19 August 2018 07:36:34 UTC+1, Broadback wrote:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?
Their ultimate real purpose is energy demand management, in the new
world of renewable energy.Tariffs will be instantly adjustable depending
on electricity available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

Not quite. instantly adjustable up, long-delayed down. Just like power
supplies and petrol/diesel at present.

That is an interesting Wiki article, though. I thought the examples
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management#Examples) were
particularly informative, and a bit worrying: "The utility companies in
the state of Queensland, Australia have devices fitted onto certain
household appliances such as air conditioners or into household meters to
control water heater, pool pumps etc. These devices would allow energy
companies to remotely cycle the use of these items during peak hours."

What is the point of having an air conditioner (or heater in cold
climates) if the electric company decides they will switch it off? It
would be bad enough not owning an air conditioner in a heatwave, but
actually having one and just sitting there watching it do nothing because
someone else is controlling it would be especially galling.

Particularly if you have a resident whose body temperature control is not
very effective and would suffer extreme distress without said air
conditioning.

There are no such people and they are free to pay more
for an unswitched service anyway.

On 19/08/2018 19:53, Rod Speed wrote:


"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
news
On 19/08/18 08:54, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 19 August 2018 07:36:34 UTC+1, BroadbackÂ* wrote:
They are being advertised on TV as saving electricity. Now we all know
that adverts are all accurate and never lie. But how exactly do they
save electric? Or do they mean that customers can use the information
given to save it?

Their ultimate real purpose is energy demand management, in the new
world of renewable energy.Tariffs will be instantly adjustable
depending on electricity available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

Not quite. instantly adjustable up, long-delayed down. Just like power
supplies and petrol/diesel at present.

That is an interesting Wiki article, though. I thought the examples
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management#Examples)
were particularly informative, and a bit worrying: "The utility
companies in the state of Queensland, Australia have devices fitted
onto certain household appliances such as air conditioners or into
household meters to control water heater, pool pumps etc. These
devices would allow energy companies to remotely cycle the use of
these items during peak hours."

What is the point of having an air conditioner (or heater in cold
climates) if the electric company decides they will switch it off?

The point is that its better to turn those off for a short time at
the peak of demand that to turn off everything in entire suburbs
when the supply can't keep up with demand at peak times.

It would be bad enough not owning an air conditioner in a heatwave,
but actually having one and just sitting there watching it do nothing
because someone else is controlling it would be especially galling.

Not when its only off for a short time when supply can't keep up with
peak demand. Much better than no power at all.

The alternative is the power company switching on an extra generator
which will eat into their profits. That's why they want to switch off
your stuff.

--
Max Demian

On 19/08/2018 14:32, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Max Demian has brought this to us :
Except it doesn't tell you which appliances are using the electricity,
or allow you to see what the average consumption of your
fridge/freezer is, or the total used for an operation such as a wash
cycle or cooking exercise.

You can get plug in logging meters for that, to monitor instantaneous,
hourly, daily and weekly.

Of course: but we're talking about so-called smart meters.

--
Max Demian

On 19/08/18 16:56, alan_m wrote:
When the new referendum takes place and we beg to stay in the EU we will
all be using Euros.
hahaha

ROFL!

You mean when we set up the NEW EU and germany begs to join it, but we
won't have a common currency...


--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 12:19:58 +0100, alan_m wrote:

Clip-on power meters have been available for many years which do
this (albeit less accurately),

Mines pretty good once I got the tails passing through the clip well
placed.

I've had a clip on meter for many years. The novelty wore off after
around a week. The only time I now look at it is before leaving the
house for an extended time (holiday etc.) just to see that I haven't
accidentally left something on such as the immersion heater.

I capture the XML data stream mine produces and log it. Then have a
bit of PHP that'll plot a graph of consumption for a given day. I
look at that maybe a few times a week and normally catch her indoors
leaving the iron on or can see when she has...

--
Cheers
Dave.