On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:36:36 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:44:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:57:02 +0100, The Other John
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

What ****es me off is they wrap each one
separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well! With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

There's nothing on god's earth which is more child proof than adult
proof.

Plenty that uses the fact that adults have much bigger and stronger
hands is.

Everything like pills requires more dexterity, not strength.

That's not true of the bigger caps that are used on plastic
bottles of metho, acetone, white spirit, bleach etc that
you have to squeeze before you can turn the cap.

Rubbish, you don't have to squeeze those very hard. The trick is to
squeeze and turn in one motion, something that larger hands are rubbish at.

Adults have larger hands so less dexterity.

That's wrong with women particularly.

Maybe so, but men use white spirit.

It's been proven in studies adults are worse at undoing those caps.

Like hell it has.

It has.
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/16/s...n-ignored.html

It's all a load of ********. There's nothing that will fool a child and
not an adult.

Besides, shouldn't it be up to the parents to keep the tablets away
from their kids?

Easier said than done quite a bit of the time
with stuff that's used most days. Few want to
fart around locking stuff like that up and the
kids will soon work out where the key is anyway.

Well that's the parents' problem.

Not a solvable one;

You educate your kids or keep the stuff where they don't know it is or
can't reach it or don't have a key. I never had a problem drinking bleach
as a child....

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:37:32 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:12:56 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

Not when it's fresh sweat it doesn't. But give the skin bacteria under
your armpit a chance to have a go at it, and then it niffs.

Bit like fresh pee, which is sterile when it exits the body (unless you
have a bladder infection). Given time in the loo bowl and bacteria from
the air working on it, and that then pongs of ammonia.

Bull****, both stink immediately.

Not with most people.

Think of a changing room after a rugby match etc.

That's because they have been sweating for hours before that.

So your sweat magically disappears after 2 minutes then?

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:48:23 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:22:53 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:24:20 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:21:28 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:20:53 +0100,
wrote:

I have always been a fan of Cascade Platinum Actionpacs. Just to
compare, bought some Finish powder recently and it keeps
clumping, which means that our dishes were coming out dirty and
needing rewashing pretty much every time we ran it. So, will
ci=ome back to Cascade again. You can surely do your own
research by reading reviews from
https://www.theolive.com/reviews/bes...her-detergent/ ,
and playing with various detergents.

They're all the same, it's just detergent.

No they are not all the same. One left a haze on glasses
after a number of washes. Finish removed that haze and
it never happened when Finish was used.

I use rinse aid to remove the haze,

There is no haze to remove with Logix
or Finish tablets and no rinse aid.

I see no point in paying more for something that doesn't need a
cheaper thing to go with it.

I don't pay more. And what matters
is the total cost per dishwasher run.

My dishwasher has a place to put rinse aid, so clearly that's what
you're meant to use.

I don't give a **** what any manufacturer means
me to use, I use what gives me the cheapest
dishwasher run that gives the best results.

Rinse aid costs **** all, it only gets through a bottle once in a
while, and that's on the highest rinse aid setting.

Still more than not using it at all. No point
when I get a perfect result without using it.

Everything gleams stunningly.

It's nothing compared to the cost of the detergent. So I'm not going to
pick a detergent based on it not requiring any rinse aid.

so the detergent can leave it if it likes. I've set the rinse aid
selector to full.

Waste of money IMO, particularly with the
very cheap Logix and Finish discounted offers.

I buy supermarket brand stuff, works just fine.

You just said it does and you have
to give some stuff a second wash.

I never have to do that.

I've tried the expensive stuff like Finish and it was no better.

Then its either a **** dishwasher, not hot enough or long
enough cycle, or you don't stack the contents properly so
the detergent can't get at some bits in contact with others.

It's a Beko DWD 5411W AAA class. I know nothing about it, I was given it
when someone changed the colour of their kitchen.

I always leave plenty gap for the water to spray into each dish.

I run it at the hottest longest setting, about 70C for an hour and a bit.

I never rinse or anything, just tip stuff like chop bones
and T bones into the bin before the plate goes into
the dishwasher and do a run usually about every 2
weeks, when there are no more clean dinner plates.

Same here, but more often as I have many many pets and use a lot of
dishes.

Why do you bother to give them a
clean one every meal with the pets ?

To avoid disease?

You don't get disease if you don't do that.

Then why do you ever wash your own dishes?

I prefer it. Nothing to do with disease.

And your cats wouldn't? They're damn fussy about cleanliness.

Guess with cats they can turn their noses up at dirty plates.

They're ****ing fussy. They beg for food,

That's likely habit. I managed to accidentally train my
neighbours cats when I fed them for the winter when
the neighbours used to trek to warmer climes in their
RV ever winter. I set an alarm in Outlook to remind
me to feed them since the cats stayed over their place.

Once the neighbours returned in spring, it was
obvious that I always fed them at the same time
every day because the buggers would stamp their
feet and demand to be fed at that time ever after.

I tend to feed mine at certain times of day (with wet meat), otherwise
they just eat as much as they can. They can live on the cheaper dry
food for the rest of the time. But they don't seem to learn when
they're going to get fed, they just moan all the time. I'm surprised
your neighbour's cats learned to read a clock.

They didn't, they got into the habit of eating at that time.

But how did they know what time it was? Mine just whine when they're
hungry. That time changes depending if they've scrounged food off my
neighbours while I was asleep.

then eat half of it, then refuse to eat the rest 2 hours later.

I just leave it there and they eat it or starve.

Yes they will if they have to. But there's much complaining beforehand.

And I never washed their bowels

Bowels, ROFL!

every day either
and they never did get sick the whole winter.

Probably every 3 or 4 days I run the dishwasher.

I forgot to say that I only have one proper meal on a plate
every day. I don't bother with lunch, at most have an apple
or a couple of bananas and use the same small plate for
about half the dishwasher run time for the massive great
thick slab of toast that's my only breakfast. In other words
usually only a couple of those breakfast plates per
dishwasher run.

I also have one meal a day. Dunno where all the dishes come from
really.

And wash extremely filthy stuff like the roast lamb
roast pan with nothing done before washing except
to melt the fat and pour that off into an empty can.
And only wash that after a number of roasts. The
worst of the detergents don't get as good a result.

I leave stuff caked on for a few days, and a few dishes will come
out still slightly dirty,

Don't ever get that with the Logix or Finish tabs,
in the Bosch dishwasher on the ultra hot cycle.
I use the most aggressive cycle because some
of the other stuff like the shallow dishes I do the
filo chicken pillows etc in the convection oven
get really baked on stuff in them.

I find anything that's not got a decent amount of space for the water
to splash around doesn't get clean.

I do make sure that plates arent touching each other.

Which means there's not much space in it.

Huh ?

To leave a gap between two plates, you're not putting a plate inbetween.

It's a Beko dishwasher though....

Yeah, likely the problem.

It was free and only 6 months old. The owner said it didn't match the
colour of her new kitchen.

And a dud design most likely. Dishwashers arent
trivial to design well, they only have water spray,

It's not that complicated a mechanism.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:37:33 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:32:07 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:53:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:32:50 +0100, wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 June 2018 14:24:05 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:20:53 +0100,
wrote:

I have always been a fan of Cascade Platinum Actionpacs. Just
to
compare, bought some Finish powder recently and it keeps
clumping,
which
means that our dishes were coming out dirty and needing
rewashing
pretty
much every time we ran it. So, will ci=ome back to Cascade
again.
You
can surely do your own research by reading reviews from
https://www.theolive.com/reviews/bes...her-detergent/ ,
and
playing with various detergents.

They're all the same, it's just detergent.

When I tried all the brands of dishwasher tablets here I found
no difference. They're not as simple as just detergent, but
there doesn't seem to be any significant difference in
performance.

They're not exactly the latest in technology,

They do in fact keep changing the technology.

How long have dishwashers been available? It's about time they'd
perfected it?

They havent even done that with washing machine
detergent and washing machines have been around
for a lot longer than dishwashers.

In spades with what is used in the bath or shower.

there's no reason they shouldn't all be the same.

The obvious reason is that some ingredients are cheaper
than others. And some do more R&D than others too.

How much research is needed after all this time?

Must be some or they wouldn't bother doing it.

Or they're stupid. Cleaning isn't rocket science.

Getting a perfect result every time in every dishwasher
out there isnt trivial. As is obvious with that other one
that left a haze on glasses after a number of washes.

How hard can it be to make a chemical that cleans stuff?

Not trivial when all you have is a water stray to get
even the worst grime off, and not destroy the most
delicate glassware and decorated plates etc.

This is the 21st century ffs.

We havent even been able to develop a robot
that will wipe little kids and senile geriatric arses.

Or even feed either of those either.

What I'm most surprised at is our lack of space travel.

That one that left a haze on glassware after a number
of washed did eventually get their act into gear and
reformulated theirs and fixed that problem. And sent
me a box of the new ones unsolicited when I had
claimed a refund on the earlier dud formulation.

Don't you use rinse aid?

Nope, waste of money. I use the cheapest Logix or
Finish tabs I can find on offer. Currently mostly Logix
since we have a new Aldi since the start of last year
and those work out cheaper than the best Finish
discount offers here.

I use Aldi tablets, they aren't called Logix though.

Ours are. Two different types, quite different prices.

The Aldi here has only one option for everything. No branded products,

Ours are all branded, but mostly with Aldi's own brand with stuff like
that.
Yours does too.

My Aldi sells no branded stuff.

and only one option for an Aldi product.

That's not true of washing machine detergents.

It is.

And when there's two flavours (like diet and non-diet coke) they're
mixed in the same ****ing container, so you often have to dig deep to
get the one you want, or even worse it's out of stock as everyone
picked the diet stuff so only the sugary one is left. And also, I get
told off for buying 12 boxes of catfood as I emptied the shelf. I told
the manager she ought to run a decent shop like Asda across the road
that can manage to cater for one person with 6 cats.

The cheapest works fine it the Bosch
with the hottest and longest cycle.

I don't care about the electricity cost since I normally
do a run every 2 weeks or so with the dishes and
another every 24 days for the full sized beer bottles,
because 24 fills the bottom rack completely and
those wont fit in the top rack.

The electricity to run a dishwasher isn't that much as it only runs for
a short time.

I meant the cost of heating the water.
Not much water tho so its no big deal.

That's included in the electricity for the dishwasher, as they're stupidly
designed and cold fill.

But I have found that washing machine detergent is crap if you
buy the cheaper supermarket stuff.

So why isnt that just as true of dishwasher detergent ?

No idea.

In fact we have had washing machines for a lot
longer that dishwashers, so your line about how
long they have been making them for can't fly.

Because manufacturers are stupid?

Unlikely they all are with such a big industry.

Perhaps they think they can get away with selling us powdered sugar?

Doesn't clean anything very well. In fact they use very
aggressive alkalis that really **** anodised aluminium.

I find my microwave is what breaks stuff, that and me bumping them
against stuff. Don't ever buy anything made of melamine, it's ****.

Works fine for the square lidded bowls I do the rice in.

Some melamine isn't microwave proof. It absorbs a lot of microwaves and
splits, explosively.

I got a melamine bowl that literally exploded in the microwave, bits
flew off it.

Doesn't happen with mine.

Apparently the stuff is poisonous, I played hell with the seller.

Presumably chinese ****. I've had mine for well over 40 years now
and found some more identical ones at a garage sale recently.

I can't believe detergent costs much to make.

They arent hugely profitable.

And the cheaper soft rinse is neither soft or smells nice.

Don't use any rinse in either the washing machine or the
dishwasher.

And I don't want my clothes to smell of anything.

Why not?

Not into perfumed ****.

Same with what I use in the shower, I use Pears Transparent
because it doesn't leave me stinking of some perfume.

Perfume covers sweat smells.

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

All perfumes stink.

They smell nicer than sweat.

My sweat doesn't stink.

It will if you leave it on you or your shirt for a bit.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 10:48:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 00:37:44 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:32:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

I use Aldi tablets, they aren't called Logix though.

Ours are. Two different types, quite different prices.

The Aldi here has only one option for everything. No branded
products,

Ours are all branded, but mostly with Aldi's own brand with stuff like
that.
Yours does too.

and only one option for an Aldi product.

That's not true of washing machine detergents.

Aldi in the UK has 2 dishwasher tablet options & more washing powder
options.

What I said.

Most other products there's only one option for.

Bull**** with sauces, frozen veg, potatoes, apples, mustard, soft drink,
chocolate etc etc etc.

Depends on the shop, my Aldi is quite small (a quarter of the size of
Asda).

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:22:39 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:24:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:32:34 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

The Other John wrote
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote

What ****es me off is they wrap each one separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well! With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

Cant you keep a small pair of surgical scissors in the box of tabs ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Medical-O...Z0Ga-IolczU_eQ

Why should he have to? The tabs should be non-wrapped.

Doesn't work, the stuff is hygroscopic.

You can buy the powder in a bottle without any wrapping and just
pour it in, what's so special about tabs that they need little
wrappers?

They are hygroscopic.

Surely they're just powder in a lump?

Nope, different constituents.

Why?

So it doesn't clump with the powder form.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 19:55:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:22:39 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:24:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:32:34 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

The Other John wrote
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote

What ****es me off is they wrap each one separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well!
With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

Cant you keep a small pair of surgical scissors in the box of tabs
?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Medical-O...Z0Ga-IolczU_eQ

Why should he have to? The tabs should be non-wrapped.

Doesn't work, the stuff is hygroscopic.

You can buy the powder in a bottle without any wrapping and just
pour it in, what's so special about tabs that they need little
wrappers?

They are hygroscopic.

Surely they're just powder in a lump?

Nope, different constituents.

Why?

So it doesn't clump with the powder form.

I'd buy powder or liquid if I could but all the supermarkets just sell
tablets. I don't want ****ing individual wrappers! It's as bad as
paracetamol. That should be sold loose in bottles, not in silly little
push the tablet out and smash it to pieces sachets!

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:36:36 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:44:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:57:02 +0100, The Other John
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

What ****es me off is they wrap each one
separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well! With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

There's nothing on god's earth which is more child proof than adult
proof.

Plenty that uses the fact that adults have much bigger and stronger
hands is.

Everything like pills requires more dexterity, not strength.

That's not true of the bigger caps that are used on plastic
bottles of metho, acetone, white spirit, bleach etc that
you have to squeeze before you can turn the cap.

Rubbish, you don't have to squeeze those very hard.

Too hard for the youngest kids that shove almost anything in
their mouths to be able to do tho given the size of the caps.

The trick is to squeeze and turn in one motion,

And the little kids that shove anything into their mouths can't do that.

something that larger hands are rubbish at.

Bull****. Works fine for me.

Adults have larger hands so less dexterity.

That's wrong with women particularly.

Maybe so, but men use white spirit.

And can get the caps off those fine.

It's been proven in studies adults are worse at undoing those caps.

Like hell it has.

It has.
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/16/s...n-ignored.html

That's not talking about what is harder for adults than kids,
its saying that the downside with those caps is that some
adults don't put the lid on again with stuff like pills where
it works fine to leave the cap off.

It's all a load of ********. There's nothing that will fool a child and
not an adult.

It isnt about fooling, its about stuff that requires more strength
and bigger hands than those very young kids have.

Same with the cupboard door catches where you put your
finger thru a hole in the door that need longer fingers.

Besides, shouldn't it be up to the parents to keep the tablets away
from their kids?

Easier said than done quite a bit of the time
with stuff that's used most days. Few want to
fart around locking stuff like that up and the
kids will soon work out where the key is anyway.

Well that's the parents' problem.

Not a solvable one;

You educate your kids

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that
you have never tried that with a sub 2 year old.

or keep the stuff where they don't know it is

Have fun with that with stuff you use every day.

or can't reach it

The worst of the little monkeys can get anywhere
an adult can with stuff used every day.

or don't have a key.

Have fun ensuring that the kid doesn't know
where the key is with stuff used every day.

I never had a problem drinking bleach as a child....

But plenty of other kids did.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:37:32 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:12:56 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

Not when it's fresh sweat it doesn't. But give the skin bacteria under
your armpit a chance to have a go at it, and then it niffs.

Bit like fresh pee, which is sterile when it exits the body (unless you
have a bladder infection). Given time in the loo bowl and bacteria from
the air working on it, and that then pongs of ammonia.

Bull****, both stink immediately.

Not with most people.

Think of a changing room after a rugby match etc.

That's because they have been sweating for hours before that.

So your sweat magically disappears after 2 minutes then?

Nope, just doesn't stink. When I go out for a walk for exercise
in summer when it isnt possible to get home before its over
25C, my T shirt is noticeably sweaty, but it doesn't stink at all.

And I do notice it when visitors show up after having a shower at
their place, notice the stink from the soap or body wash they use.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:54:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:36:36 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:44:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:57:02 +0100, The Other John
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

What ****es me off is they wrap each one
separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well! With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

There's nothing on god's earth which is more child proof than adult
proof.

Plenty that uses the fact that adults have much bigger and stronger
hands is.

Everything like pills requires more dexterity, not strength.

That's not true of the bigger caps that are used on plastic
bottles of metho, acetone, white spirit, bleach etc that
you have to squeeze before you can turn the cap.

Rubbish, you don't have to squeeze those very hard.

Too hard for the youngest kids that shove almost anything in
their mouths to be able to do tho given the size of the caps.

Fact: adults ask kids to open childproof caps for them.

The trick is to squeeze and turn in one motion,

And the little kids that shove anything into their mouths can't do that.

And neither can some adults.

something that larger hands are rubbish at.

Bull****. Works fine for me.

But the less abled adults don't matter eh?

Adults have larger hands so less dexterity.

That's wrong with women particularly.

Maybe so, but men use white spirit.

And can get the caps off those fine.

It's been proven in studies adults are worse at undoing those caps.

Like hell it has.

It has.
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/16/s...n-ignored.html

That's not talking about what is harder for adults than kids,
its saying that the downside with those caps is that some
adults don't put the lid on again with stuff like pills where
it works fine to leave the cap off.

Which defeats the point of the nanny society protection.

It's all a load of ********. There's nothing that will fool a child
and not an adult.

It isnt about fooling, its about stuff that requires more strength
and bigger hands than those very young kids have.

Bull****. It's not strength but dexterity you need. You need to do a
push and a turn at once.

Same with the cupboard door catches where you put your
finger thru a hole in the door that need longer fingers.

Besides, shouldn't it be up to the parents to keep the tablets away
from their kids?

Easier said than done quite a bit of the time
with stuff that's used most days. Few want to
fart around locking stuff like that up and the
kids will soon work out where the key is anyway.

Well that's the parents' problem.

Not a solvable one;

You educate your kids

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that
you have never tried that with a sub 2 year old.

Use the below then. Not hard to keep things out of reach of a 2 year old.

or keep the stuff where they don't know it is

Have fun with that with stuff you use every day.

Most people have cupboards at eye level. Kids old enough to reach those
can be taught not to be stupid.

or can't reach it

The worst of the little monkeys can get anywhere
an adult can with stuff used every day.

or don't have a key.

Have fun ensuring that the kid doesn't know
where the key is with stuff used every day.

I never had a problem drinking bleach as a child....

But plenty of other kids did.

Then they should be out of the gene pool.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:59:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:37:32 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:12:56 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

Not when it's fresh sweat it doesn't. But give the skin bacteria
under
your armpit a chance to have a go at it, and then it niffs.

Bit like fresh pee, which is sterile when it exits the body (unless
you
have a bladder infection). Given time in the loo bowl and bacteria
from
the air working on it, and that then pongs of ammonia.

Bull****, both stink immediately.

Not with most people.

Think of a changing room after a rugby match etc.

That's because they have been sweating for hours before that.

So your sweat magically disappears after 2 minutes then?

Nope, just doesn't stink. When I go out for a walk for exercise
in summer when it isnt possible to get home before its over
25C, my T shirt is noticeably sweaty, but it doesn't stink at all.

And I do notice it when visitors show up after having a shower at
their place, notice the stink from the soap or body wash they use.

Then you're quite unusual, because most folk if they walk or run in hot
weather for an hour will stink to high heaven.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 05:54:46 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

FLUSH yet so much more idiotic senile drivel unread

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 04:55:25 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:


Why?

So it doesn't clump with the powder form.

When did you have your last brain check, you endlessly driveling and ranting
senile oaf? BG

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:48:23 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:22:53 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:24:20 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:21:28 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:20:53 +0100,
wrote:

I have always been a fan of Cascade Platinum Actionpacs. Just to
compare, bought some Finish powder recently and it keeps
clumping, which means that our dishes were coming out dirty and
needing rewashing pretty much every time we ran it. So, will
ci=ome back to Cascade again. You can surely do your own
research by reading reviews from
https://www.theolive.com/reviews/bes...her-detergent/ ,
and playing with various detergents.

They're all the same, it's just detergent.

No they are not all the same. One left a haze on glasses
after a number of washes. Finish removed that haze and
it never happened when Finish was used.

I use rinse aid to remove the haze,

There is no haze to remove with Logix
or Finish tablets and no rinse aid.

I see no point in paying more for something that doesn't need a
cheaper thing to go with it.

I don't pay more. And what matters
is the total cost per dishwasher run.

My dishwasher has a place to put rinse aid, so clearly that's what
you're meant to use.

I don't give a **** what any manufacturer means
me to use, I use what gives me the cheapest
dishwasher run that gives the best results.

Rinse aid costs **** all, it only gets through a bottle once in a
while, and that's on the highest rinse aid setting.

Still more than not using it at all. No point
when I get a perfect result without using it.

Everything gleams stunningly.

It's nothing compared to the cost of the detergent.

Still no point in farting around with it when
it does nothing to the perfect result I get.

So I'm not going to pick a detergent based on it not requiring any rinse
aid.

I don't either. I use the detergent is the cheapest
that delivers a perfect result. In fact now with the
Aldi dishwasher detergent, its not only the cheapest
I can get but also delivers a perfect result every time.

so the detergent can leave it if it likes. I've set the rinse aid
selector to full.

Waste of money IMO, particularly with the
very cheap Logix and Finish discounted offers.

I buy supermarket brand stuff, works just fine.

You just said it does and you have
to give some stuff a second wash.

I never have to do that.

I've tried the expensive stuff like Finish and it was no better.

Then its either a **** dishwasher, not hot enough or long
enough cycle, or you don't stack the contents properly so
the detergent can't get at some bits in contact with others.

It's a Beko DWD 5411W AAA class. I know nothing about it, I was given it
when someone changed the colour of their kitchen.

I always leave plenty gap for the water to spray into each dish.

I run it at the hottest longest setting, about 70C for an hour and a bit.

The Bosch takes a lot longer than that, 2:15,
presumably reason for the better result.

I never rinse or anything, just tip stuff like chop bones
and T bones into the bin before the plate goes into
the dishwasher and do a run usually about every 2
weeks, when there are no more clean dinner plates.

Same here, but more often as I have many many pets and use a lot of
dishes.

Why do you bother to give them a
clean one every meal with the pets ?

To avoid disease?

You don't get disease if you don't do that.

Then why do you ever wash your own dishes?

I prefer it. Nothing to do with disease.

And your cats wouldn't?

I don't care what they prefer, and they arent
my cats, they were the neighbours cats.

They're damn fussy about cleanliness.

They ate the food anyway.

I didn't ever have a bowl with my dog. I used to buy the
massive great 10KG sacks of dry dog food. Put it on the
concrete floor, slash the sack with a stanley knife and let
him help himself. When the sack was empty, slash another.

The water bowl was one of those plastic icecream containers.
When that was empty he's shove it around the floor with his
nose and I'd fill it again and never bothered to wash it.

Guess with cats they can turn their noses up at dirty plates.

They're ****ing fussy. They beg for food,

That's likely habit. I managed to accidentally train my
neighbours cats when I fed them for the winter when
the neighbours used to trek to warmer climes in their
RV ever winter. I set an alarm in Outlook to remind
me to feed them since the cats stayed over their place.

Once the neighbours returned in spring, it was
obvious that I always fed them at the same time
every day because the buggers would stamp their
feet and demand to be fed at that time ever after.

I tend to feed mine at certain times of day (with wet meat), otherwise
they just eat as much as they can. They can live on the cheaper dry
food for the rest of the time. But they don't seem to learn when
they're going to get fed, they just moan all the time. I'm surprised
your neighbour's cats learned to read a clock.

They didn't, they got into the habit of eating at that time.

But how did they know what time it was?

Same way I know what the time is without using a clock.

Mine just whine when they're hungry. That time changes depending if
they've scrounged food off my neighbours while I was asleep.

then eat half of it, then refuse to eat the rest 2 hours later.

I just leave it there and they eat it or starve.

Yes they will if they have to. But there's much complaining beforehand.

And I never washed their bowels

Bowels, ROFL!

every day either
and they never did get sick the whole winter.

Probably every 3 or 4 days I run the dishwasher.

I forgot to say that I only have one proper meal on a plate
every day. I don't bother with lunch, at most have an apple
or a couple of bananas and use the same small plate for
about half the dishwasher run time for the massive great
thick slab of toast that's my only breakfast. In other words
usually only a couple of those breakfast plates per
dishwasher run.

I also have one meal a day. Dunno where all the dishes come from
really.

And wash extremely filthy stuff like the roast lamb
roast pan with nothing done before washing except
to melt the fat and pour that off into an empty can.
And only wash that after a number of roasts. The
worst of the detergents don't get as good a result.

I leave stuff caked on for a few days, and a few dishes will come
out still slightly dirty,

Don't ever get that with the Logix or Finish tabs,
in the Bosch dishwasher on the ultra hot cycle.
I use the most aggressive cycle because some
of the other stuff like the shallow dishes I do the
filo chicken pillows etc in the convection oven
get really baked on stuff in them.

I find anything that's not got a decent amount of space for the water
to splash around doesn't get clean.

I do make sure that plates arent touching each other.

Which means there's not much space in it.

Huh ?

To leave a gap between two plates, you're not putting a plate inbetween.

I put mine in every slot in the rack and that
leaves plenty of space between each plate.

It's a Beko dishwasher though....

Yeah, likely the problem.

It was free and only 6 months old. The owner said it didn't match the
colour of her new kitchen.

And a dud design most likely. Dishwashers arent
trivial to design well, they only have water spray,

It's not that complicated a mechanism.

But it does need careful design of the detergent and
cycles for that to get everything perfect every time.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 05:59:25 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:



Nope, just doesn't stink. When I go out for a walk for exercise
in summer when it isnt possible to get home before its over
25C, my T shirt is noticeably sweaty, but it doesn't stink at all.

Of course. The biggest stinkers NEVER smell their own stink, you senile
stinking cretin! tsk

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:14:34 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:48:23 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:22:53 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:24:20 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:21:28 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:20:53 +0100,
wrote:

I have always been a fan of Cascade Platinum Actionpacs. Just
to compare, bought some Finish powder recently and it keeps
clumping, which means that our dishes were coming out dirty
and needing rewashing pretty much every time we ran it. So,
will ci=ome back to Cascade again. You can surely do your own
research by reading reviews from
https://www.theolive.com/reviews/bes...her-detergent/ ,
and playing with various detergents.

They're all the same, it's just detergent.

No they are not all the same. One left a haze on glasses
after a number of washes. Finish removed that haze and
it never happened when Finish was used.

I use rinse aid to remove the haze,

There is no haze to remove with Logix
or Finish tablets and no rinse aid.

I see no point in paying more for something that doesn't need a
cheaper thing to go with it.

I don't pay more. And what matters
is the total cost per dishwasher run.

My dishwasher has a place to put rinse aid, so clearly that's what
you're meant to use.

I don't give a **** what any manufacturer means
me to use, I use what gives me the cheapest
dishwasher run that gives the best results.

Rinse aid costs **** all, it only gets through a bottle once in a
while, and that's on the highest rinse aid setting.

Still more than not using it at all. No point
when I get a perfect result without using it.

Everything gleams stunningly.

It's nothing compared to the cost of the detergent.

Still no point in farting around with it when
it does nothing to the perfect result I get.

No farting around, it's auto-released.

So I'm not going to pick a detergent based on it not requiring any
rinse aid.

I don't either. I use the detergent is the cheapest
that delivers a perfect result. In fact now with the
Aldi dishwasher detergent, its not only the cheapest
I can get but also delivers a perfect result every time.

I've tried all detergents. They make no difference to the end result.
But using a longer/hotter wash helps a lot, and using rinse aid helps a
lot.

so the detergent can leave it if it likes. I've set the rinse
aid selector to full.

Waste of money IMO, particularly with the
very cheap Logix and Finish discounted offers.

I buy supermarket brand stuff, works just fine.

You just said it does and you have
to give some stuff a second wash.

I never have to do that.

I've tried the expensive stuff like Finish and it was no better.

Then its either a **** dishwasher, not hot enough or long
enough cycle, or you don't stack the contents properly so
the detergent can't get at some bits in contact with others.

It's a Beko DWD 5411W AAA class. I know nothing about it, I was given
it when someone changed the colour of their kitchen.

I always leave plenty gap for the water to spray into each dish.

I run it at the hottest longest setting, about 70C for an hour and a
bit.

The Bosch takes a lot longer than that, 2:15,
presumably reason for the better result.

I'm not sure of the time it takes, but my washing machine is about that
long, and I'm fairly sure my dishwasher is quicker.

I never rinse or anything, just tip stuff like chop bones
and T bones into the bin before the plate goes into
the dishwasher and do a run usually about every 2
weeks, when there are no more clean dinner plates.

Same here, but more often as I have many many pets and use a lot
of dishes.

Why do you bother to give them a
clean one every meal with the pets ?

To avoid disease?

You don't get disease if you don't do that.

Then why do you ever wash your own dishes?

I prefer it. Nothing to do with disease.

And your cats wouldn't?

I don't care what they prefer, and they arent
my cats, they were the neighbours cats.

They're damn fussy about cleanliness.

They ate the food anyway.

I didn't ever have a bowl with my dog. I used to buy the
massive great 10KG sacks of dry dog food. Put it on the
concrete floor, slash the sack with a stanley knife and let
him help himself. When the sack was empty, slash another.

With a cat that would end up with the whole room covered in food. They're
****ing untidy.

The water bowl was one of those plastic icecream containers.
When that was empty he's shove it around the floor with his
nose and I'd fill it again and never bothered to wash it.

Guess with cats they can turn their noses up at dirty plates.

They're ****ing fussy. They beg for food,

That's likely habit. I managed to accidentally train my
neighbours cats when I fed them for the winter when
the neighbours used to trek to warmer climes in their
RV ever winter. I set an alarm in Outlook to remind
me to feed them since the cats stayed over their place.

Once the neighbours returned in spring, it was
obvious that I always fed them at the same time
every day because the buggers would stamp their
feet and demand to be fed at that time ever after.

I tend to feed mine at certain times of day (with wet meat),
otherwise they just eat as much as they can. They can live on the
cheaper dry food for the rest of the time. But they don't seem to
learn when they're going to get fed, they just moan all the time.
I'm surprised your neighbour's cats learned to read a clock.

They didn't, they got into the habit of eating at that time.

But how did they know what time it was?

Same way I know what the time is without using a clock.

Most people can't do that, let alone animals.

Mine just whine when they're hungry. That time changes depending if
they've scrounged food off my neighbours while I was asleep.

then eat half of it, then refuse to eat the rest 2 hours later.

I just leave it there and they eat it or starve.

Yes they will if they have to. But there's much complaining
beforehand.

And I never washed their bowels

Bowels, ROFL!

every day either
and they never did get sick the whole winter.

Probably every 3 or 4 days I run the dishwasher.

I forgot to say that I only have one proper meal on a plate
every day. I don't bother with lunch, at most have an apple
or a couple of bananas and use the same small plate for
about half the dishwasher run time for the massive great
thick slab of toast that's my only breakfast. In other words
usually only a couple of those breakfast plates per
dishwasher run.

I also have one meal a day. Dunno where all the dishes come from
really.

And wash extremely filthy stuff like the roast lamb
roast pan with nothing done before washing except
to melt the fat and pour that off into an empty can.
And only wash that after a number of roasts. The
worst of the detergents don't get as good a result.

I leave stuff caked on for a few days, and a few dishes will come
out still slightly dirty,

Don't ever get that with the Logix or Finish tabs,
in the Bosch dishwasher on the ultra hot cycle.
I use the most aggressive cycle because some
of the other stuff like the shallow dishes I do the
filo chicken pillows etc in the convection oven
get really baked on stuff in them.

I find anything that's not got a decent amount of space for the
water to splash around doesn't get clean.

I do make sure that plates arent touching each other.

Which means there's not much space in it.

Huh ?

To leave a gap between two plates, you're not putting a plate inbetween.

I put mine in every slot in the rack and that
leaves plenty of space between each plate.

I find that results in 50% of them being left dirty. Especially when
they're all different shapes.

It's a Beko dishwasher though....

Yeah, likely the problem.

It was free and only 6 months old. The owner said it didn't match
the colour of her new kitchen.

And a dud design most likely. Dishwashers arent
trivial to design well, they only have water spray,

It's not that complicated a mechanism.

But it does need careful design of the detergent and
cycles for that to get everything perfect every time.

How difficult can it be to make a powder that dissolves stuff?

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 06:14:34 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:


Still no point in farting around with it when
it does nothing to the perfect result I get.

You two abnormal idiots need your stupid heads rinsed out! LOL

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:37:33 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:32:07 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:53:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:32:50 +0100, wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 June 2018 14:24:05 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:20:53 +0100,
wrote:

I have always been a fan of Cascade Platinum Actionpacs. Just
to
compare, bought some Finish powder recently and it keeps
clumping,
which
means that our dishes were coming out dirty and needing
rewashing
pretty
much every time we ran it. So, will ci=ome back to Cascade
again.
You
can surely do your own research by reading reviews from
https://www.theolive.com/reviews/bes...her-detergent/ ,
and
playing with various detergents.

They're all the same, it's just detergent.

When I tried all the brands of dishwasher tablets here I found
no difference. They're not as simple as just detergent, but
there doesn't seem to be any significant difference in
performance.

They're not exactly the latest in technology,

They do in fact keep changing the technology.

How long have dishwashers been available? It's about time they'd
perfected it?

They havent even done that with washing machine
detergent and washing machines have been around
for a lot longer than dishwashers.

In spades with what is used in the bath or shower.

there's no reason they shouldn't all be the same.

The obvious reason is that some ingredients are cheaper
than others. And some do more R&D than others too.

How much research is needed after all this time?

Must be some or they wouldn't bother doing it.

Or they're stupid. Cleaning isn't rocket science.

Getting a perfect result every time in every dishwasher
out there isnt trivial. As is obvious with that other one
that left a haze on glasses after a number of washes.

How hard can it be to make a chemical that cleans stuff?

Not trivial when all you have is a water stray to get
even the worst grime off, and not destroy the most
delicate glassware and decorated plates etc.

This is the 21st century ffs.

We havent even been able to develop a robot
that will wipe little kids and senile geriatric arses.

Or even feed either of those either.

What I'm most surprised at is our lack of space travel.

I'm not given that there is nowhere worth going to that doesn't
involve an utterly obscene quality of life when you get there.

That one that left a haze on glassware after a number
of washed did eventually get their act into gear and
reformulated theirs and fixed that problem. And sent
me a box of the new ones unsolicited when I had
claimed a refund on the earlier dud formulation.

Don't you use rinse aid?

Nope, waste of money. I use the cheapest Logix or
Finish tabs I can find on offer. Currently mostly Logix
since we have a new Aldi since the start of last year
and those work out cheaper than the best Finish
discount offers here.

I use Aldi tablets, they aren't called Logix though.

Ours are. Two different types, quite different prices.

The Aldi here has only one option for everything. No branded products,

Ours are all branded, but mostly with Aldi's own brand with stuff like
that.
Yours does too.

My Aldi sells no branded stuff.

Not with dishwasher detergent, yours is branded Magnum.

and only one option for an Aldi product.

That's not true of washing machine detergents.

It is.

Nope. Roughly 6 alternatives.

And when there's two flavours (like diet and non-diet coke) they're
mixed in the same ****ing container, so you often have to dig deep to
get the one you want, or even worse it's out of stock as everyone
picked the diet stuff so only the sugary one is left. And also, I get
told off for buying 12 boxes of catfood as I emptied the shelf. I told
the manager she ought to run a decent shop like Asda across the road
that can manage to cater for one person with 6 cats.

The cheapest works fine it the Bosch
with the hottest and longest cycle.

I don't care about the electricity cost since I normally
do a run every 2 weeks or so with the dishes and
another every 24 days for the full sized beer bottles,
because 24 fills the bottom rack completely and
those wont fit in the top rack.

The electricity to run a dishwasher isn't that much as it only runs for
a short time.

I meant the cost of heating the water.
Not much water tho so its no big deal.

That's included in the electricity for the dishwasher,

Duh. But it is the main electricity cost.

as they're stupidly designed and cold fill.

Nothing stupid about it. Works best to do an initial cold rinse
because that doesn't bake the egg particularly onto the plates.

And given that they use so little water, you wont get much
hot water even with a hot water feed so have to heat it anyway.

But I have found that washing machine detergent is crap if you
buy the cheaper supermarket stuff.

So why isnt that just as true of dishwasher detergent ?

No idea.

In fact we have had washing machines for a lot
longer that dishwashers, so your line about how
long they have been making them for can't fly.

Because manufacturers are stupid?

Unlikely they all are with such a big industry.

Perhaps they think they can get away with selling us powdered sugar?

Doesn't clean anything very well. In fact they use very
aggressive alkalis that really **** anodised aluminium.

I find my microwave is what breaks stuff, that and me bumping them
against stuff. Don't ever buy anything made of melamine, it's ****.

Works fine for the square lidded bowls I do the rice in.

Some melamine isn't microwave proof.

So buy the stuff that is. Almost everything but the cheapest chinese
**** is labelled as microwaveable and dishwasherable now.

It absorbs a lot of microwaves and splits, explosively.

Only with the worst chinese ****.

I got a melamine bowl that literally exploded in the microwave, bits
flew off it.

Doesn't happen with mine.

Apparently the stuff is poisonous, I played hell with the seller.

Presumably chinese ****. I've had mine for well over 40 years now
and found some more identical ones at a garage sale recently.

I can't believe detergent costs much to make.

They arent hugely profitable.

And the cheaper soft rinse is neither soft or smells nice.

Don't use any rinse in either the washing machine or the
dishwasher.

And I don't want my clothes to smell of anything.

Why not?

Not into perfumed ****.

Same with what I use in the shower, I use Pears Transparent
because it doesn't leave me stinking of some perfume.

Perfume covers sweat smells.

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

All perfumes stink.

They smell nicer than sweat.

My sweat doesn't stink.

It will if you leave it on you or your shirt for a bit.

Mine doesn't. And I know that because my T shirts are
noticeably sweaty when out walking for exercise in summer.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 10:48:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 00:37:44 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:32:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

I use Aldi tablets, they aren't called Logix though.

Ours are. Two different types, quite different prices.

The Aldi here has only one option for everything. No branded
products,

Ours are all branded, but mostly with Aldi's own brand with stuff like
that.
Yours does too.

and only one option for an Aldi product.

That's not true of washing machine detergents.

Aldi in the UK has 2 dishwasher tablet options & more washing powder
options.

What I said.

Most other products there's only one option for.

Bull**** with sauces, frozen veg, potatoes, apples, mustard, soft drink,
chocolate etc etc etc.

Depends on the shop, my Aldi is quite small (a quarter of the size of
Asda).

So is mine, much smaller than the normal supermarkets. Just 4 aisles.
The supermarkets have over a dozen.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 19:55:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:22:39 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:24:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:32:34 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

The Other John wrote
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote

What ****es me off is they wrap each one separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well!
With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

Cant you keep a small pair of surgical scissors in the box of tabs
?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Medical-O...Z0Ga-IolczU_eQ

Why should he have to? The tabs should be non-wrapped.

Doesn't work, the stuff is hygroscopic.

You can buy the powder in a bottle without any wrapping and just
pour it in, what's so special about tabs that they need little
wrappers?

They are hygroscopic.

Surely they're just powder in a lump?

Nope, different constituents.

Why?

So it doesn't clump with the powder form.

I'd buy powder or liquid if I could

I wouldn't.

but all the supermarkets just sell tablets. I don't want ****ing
individual wrappers!

Some tablets have wrappers that dissolve in the
dishwasher so you don't have to remove the wrapper.

It's as bad as paracetamol. That should be sold loose in bottles, not in
silly little push the tablet out and smash it to pieces sachets!

All of my meds are like that now and I don't ever smash any pills.

The blood pressure meds are also available in little plastic
bottles, because some have only half a pill twice a day but
I prefer the cards with individual push out pills and I now
take one pill twice a day.
That

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:42:00 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:37:33 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:32:07 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:53:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:32:50 +0100, wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 June 2018 14:24:05 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:20:53 +0100,
wrote:

I have always been a fan of Cascade Platinum Actionpacs.
Just
to
compare, bought some Finish powder recently and it keeps
clumping,
which
means that our dishes were coming out dirty and needing
rewashing
pretty
much every time we ran it. So, will ci=ome back to Cascade
again.
You
can surely do your own research by reading reviews from
https://www.theolive.com/reviews/bes...her-detergent/
,
and
playing with various detergents.

They're all the same, it's just detergent.

When I tried all the brands of dishwasher tablets here I found
no difference. They're not as simple as just detergent, but
there doesn't seem to be any significant difference in
performance.

They're not exactly the latest in technology,

They do in fact keep changing the technology.

How long have dishwashers been available? It's about time they'd
perfected it?

They havent even done that with washing machine
detergent and washing machines have been around
for a lot longer than dishwashers.

In spades with what is used in the bath or shower.

there's no reason they shouldn't all be the same.

The obvious reason is that some ingredients are cheaper
than others. And some do more R&D than others too.

How much research is needed after all this time?

Must be some or they wouldn't bother doing it.

Or they're stupid. Cleaning isn't rocket science.

Getting a perfect result every time in every dishwasher
out there isnt trivial. As is obvious with that other one
that left a haze on glasses after a number of washes.

How hard can it be to make a chemical that cleans stuff?

Not trivial when all you have is a water stray to get
even the worst grime off, and not destroy the most
delicate glassware and decorated plates etc.

This is the 21st century ffs.

We havent even been able to develop a robot
that will wipe little kids and senile geriatric arses.

Or even feed either of those either.

What I'm most surprised at is our lack of space travel.

I'm not given that there is nowhere worth going to that doesn't
involve an utterly obscene quality of life when you get there.

Then we should be researching places that are worthwhile. And since we
can't even travel properly, how would we know?

That one that left a haze on glassware after a number
of washed did eventually get their act into gear and
reformulated theirs and fixed that problem. And sent
me a box of the new ones unsolicited when I had
claimed a refund on the earlier dud formulation.

Don't you use rinse aid?

Nope, waste of money. I use the cheapest Logix or
Finish tabs I can find on offer. Currently mostly Logix
since we have a new Aldi since the start of last year
and those work out cheaper than the best Finish
discount offers here.

I use Aldi tablets, they aren't called Logix though.

Ours are. Two different types, quite different prices.

The Aldi here has only one option for everything. No branded
products,

Ours are all branded, but mostly with Aldi's own brand with stuff like
that.
Yours does too.

My Aldi sells no branded stuff.

Not with dishwasher detergent, yours is branded Magnum.

Which is only available in Aldi. It's an Aldi name.

and only one option for an Aldi product.

That's not true of washing machine detergents.

It is.

Nope. Roughly 6 alternatives.

Not in my Aldi.

And when there's two flavours (like diet and non-diet coke) they're
mixed in the same ****ing container, so you often have to dig deep to
get the one you want, or even worse it's out of stock as everyone
picked the diet stuff so only the sugary one is left. And also, I
get told off for buying 12 boxes of catfood as I emptied the shelf.
I told the manager she ought to run a decent shop like Asda across
the road that can manage to cater for one person with 6 cats.

The cheapest works fine it the Bosch
with the hottest and longest cycle.

I don't care about the electricity cost since I normally
do a run every 2 weeks or so with the dishes and
another every 24 days for the full sized beer bottles,
because 24 fills the bottom rack completely and
those wont fit in the top rack.

The electricity to run a dishwasher isn't that much as it only runs
for a short time.

I meant the cost of heating the water.
Not much water tho so its no big deal.

That's included in the electricity for the dishwasher,

Duh. But it is the main electricity cost.

What was your point here?

as they're stupidly designed and cold fill.

Nothing stupid about it. Works best to do an initial cold rinse
because that doesn't bake the egg particularly onto the plates.

And given that they use so little water, you wont get much
hot water even with a hot water feed so have to heat it anyway.

Gas is cheaper to heat with.

But I have found that washing machine detergent is crap if you
buy the cheaper supermarket stuff.

So why isnt that just as true of dishwasher detergent ?

No idea.

In fact we have had washing machines for a lot
longer that dishwashers, so your line about how
long they have been making them for can't fly.

Because manufacturers are stupid?

Unlikely they all are with such a big industry.

Perhaps they think they can get away with selling us powdered sugar?

Doesn't clean anything very well. In fact they use very
aggressive alkalis that really **** anodised aluminium.

I find my microwave is what breaks stuff, that and me bumping them
against stuff. Don't ever buy anything made of melamine, it's ****.

Works fine for the square lidded bowls I do the rice in.

Some melamine isn't microwave proof.

So buy the stuff that is. Almost everything but the cheapest chinese
**** is labelled as microwaveable and dishwasherable now.

I assumed it all was. The Ebay seller lost money because they
misadvertised. I don't tolerate this kind of behaviour.

It absorbs a lot of microwaves and splits, explosively.

Only with the worst chinese ****.

Not my problem.

I got a melamine bowl that literally exploded in the microwave, bits
flew off it.

Doesn't happen with mine.

Apparently the stuff is poisonous, I played hell with the seller.

Presumably chinese ****. I've had mine for well over 40 years now
and found some more identical ones at a garage sale recently.

I can't believe detergent costs much to make.

They arent hugely profitable.

And the cheaper soft rinse is neither soft or smells nice.

Don't use any rinse in either the washing machine or the
dishwasher.

And I don't want my clothes to smell of anything.

Why not?

Not into perfumed ****.

Same with what I use in the shower, I use Pears Transparent
because it doesn't leave me stinking of some perfume.

Perfume covers sweat smells.

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

All perfumes stink.

They smell nicer than sweat.

My sweat doesn't stink.

It will if you leave it on you or your shirt for a bit.

Mine doesn't. And I know that because my T shirts are
noticeably sweaty when out walking for exercise in summer.

Then you're superhuman :-)

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:44:17 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

You educate your kids or keep the stuff where they don't know it is or
can't reach it or don't have a key. I never had a problem drinking
bleach as a child....

And it shows!

Stop misunderstanding me for comic effect!

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:54:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:36:36 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:44:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:57:02 +0100, The Other John
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

What ****es me off is they wrap each one
separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well! With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

There's nothing on god's earth which is more child proof than adult
proof.

Plenty that uses the fact that adults have much bigger and stronger
hands is.

Everything like pills requires more dexterity, not strength.

That's not true of the bigger caps that are used on plastic
bottles of metho, acetone, white spirit, bleach etc that
you have to squeeze before you can turn the cap.

Rubbish, you don't have to squeeze those very hard.

Too hard for the youngest kids that shove almost anything in
their mouths to be able to do tho given the size of the caps.

Fact: adults ask kids to open childproof caps for them.

Not the sub 2 year olds that put everything in their mouths.

The trick is to squeeze and turn in one motion,

And the little kids that shove anything into their mouths can't do that.

And neither can some adults.

Yes, some with arthritis do have a problem with those.

something that larger hands are rubbish at.

Bull****. Works fine for me.

But the less abled adults don't matter eh?

Corse they do, particularly the ones with arthritis,
but only much more expensive fully electronic with
RFIDs on the wrist of the adult work with those.

Adults have larger hands so less dexterity.

That's wrong with women particularly.

Maybe so, but men use white spirit.

And can get the caps off those fine.

It's been proven in studies adults are worse at undoing those caps.

Like hell it has.

It has.
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/16/s...n-ignored.html

That's not talking about what is harder for adults than kids,
its saying that the downside with those caps is that some
adults don't put the lid on again with stuff like pills where
it works fine to leave the cap off.

Which defeats the point of the nanny society protection.

Yes, that's why we mostly have those cards with push out pills now.

And for those that can't use those due to arthritis etc
you can also get fancy machines that get loaded by
the pharmacy with the month supply of pills that
run the pills out into a little bin thing at them time
the pill needs to be taken where even the most
disabled person can pick them up and no kid
can feast on the full month supply etc.

It's all a load of ********. There's nothing that will fool a child
and not an adult.

It isnt about fooling, its about stuff that requires more strength
and bigger hands than those very young kids have.

Bull****. It's not strength but dexterity you need. You need to do a
push and a turn at once.

There isnt just one type of very young child proof cap.

Same with the cupboard door catches where you put your
finger thru a hole in the door that need longer fingers.

Besides, shouldn't it be up to the parents to keep the tablets away
from their kids?

Easier said than done quite a bit of the time
with stuff that's used most days. Few want to
fart around locking stuff like that up and the
kids will soon work out where the key is anyway.

Well that's the parents' problem.

Not a solvable one;

You educate your kids

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that
you have never tried that with a sub 2 year old.

Use the below then. Not hard to keep things out of reach of a 2 year old.

Harder than you might think. We had someone post a video of
their little monkey shinning up the allegedly child proof gate
of the swimming pool, wearing just his nappy. with the 5' high
vertical rails between his toes. Caused one hell of a commotion
on facebook. In their case the pool hadn't been built yet, just
the fence and gate and they decided to not dig the pool until
he was older.

Corse even that situation is doable with an RFID system with
permanent plastic bracelets for the adults and older kids and
none for the youngest kids.

or keep the stuff where they don't know it is

Have fun with that with stuff you use every day.

Most people have cupboards at eye level. Kids old enough to reach those
can be taught not to be stupid.

Doest work like that with the worst of the little monkeys.

Makes more sense to do with with the RFID bracelet approach.

or can't reach it

The worst of the little monkeys can get anywhere
an adult can with stuff used every day.

or don't have a key.

Have fun ensuring that the kid doesn't know
where the key is with stuff used every day.

I never had a problem drinking bleach as a child....

But plenty of other kids did.

Then they should be out of the gene pool.

Doesn't usually kill them.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:59:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:37:32 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:12:56 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

Not when it's fresh sweat it doesn't. But give the skin bacteria
under
your armpit a chance to have a go at it, and then it niffs.

Bit like fresh pee, which is sterile when it exits the body (unless
you
have a bladder infection). Given time in the loo bowl and bacteria
from
the air working on it, and that then pongs of ammonia.

Bull****, both stink immediately.

Not with most people.

Think of a changing room after a rugby match etc.

That's because they have been sweating for hours before that.

So your sweat magically disappears after 2 minutes then?

Nope, just doesn't stink. When I go out for a walk for exercise
in summer when it isnt possible to get home before its over
25C, my T shirt is noticeably sweaty, but it doesn't stink at all.

And I do notice it when visitors show up after having a shower at
their place, notice the stink from the soap or body wash they use.

Then you're quite unusual, because most folk if they walk or run in hot
weather for an hour will stink to high heaven.

I don't find that with the ones I pass. Some do, but most don't.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 06:43:50 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

Depends on the shop, my Aldi is quite small (a quarter of the size of
Asda).

So is mine, much smaller than the normal supermarkets.

You two deviated sick idiots are obviously comparing your dicks! LOL

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 06:42:00 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

It will if you leave it on you or your shirt for a bit.

Mine doesn't.

And he STILL believes so, the senile stinker! LOL

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 07:19:59 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

FLUSH the two abnormal troll's inevitable idiotic sick ****

....and much better air in here!

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:44:17 +0100, Tim Streater, the notorious
troll-feeding idiot, blathered:


You educate your kids or keep the stuff where they don't know it is or
can't reach it or don't have a key. I never had a problem drinking bleach
as a child....

And it shows!

Yeah, the troll thanks you nevertheless for your feedback, senile oaf! tsk

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 06:58:20 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

I'd buy powder or liquid if I could

I wouldn't.

INTERESTING, senile idiot! BG

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:14:34 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:48:23 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:22:53 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:24:20 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:21:28 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:20:53 +0100,
wrote:

I have always been a fan of Cascade Platinum Actionpacs. Just
to compare, bought some Finish powder recently and it keeps
clumping, which means that our dishes were coming out dirty
and needing rewashing pretty much every time we ran it. So,
will ci=ome back to Cascade again. You can surely do your own
research by reading reviews from
https://www.theolive.com/reviews/bes...her-detergent/ ,
and playing with various detergents.

They're all the same, it's just detergent.

No they are not all the same. One left a haze on glasses
after a number of washes. Finish removed that haze and
it never happened when Finish was used.

I use rinse aid to remove the haze,

There is no haze to remove with Logix
or Finish tablets and no rinse aid.

I see no point in paying more for something that doesn't need a
cheaper thing to go with it.

I don't pay more. And what matters
is the total cost per dishwasher run.

My dishwasher has a place to put rinse aid, so clearly that's what
you're meant to use.

I don't give a **** what any manufacturer means
me to use, I use what gives me the cheapest
dishwasher run that gives the best results.

Rinse aid costs **** all, it only gets through a bottle once in a
while, and that's on the highest rinse aid setting.

Still more than not using it at all. No point
when I get a perfect result without using it.

Everything gleams stunningly.

It's nothing compared to the cost of the detergent.

Still no point in farting around with it when
it does nothing to the perfect result I get.

No farting around, it's auto-released.

Farting around buying it and refilling the dispenser when its empty.

So I'm not going to pick a detergent based on it not requiring any
rinse aid.

I don't either. I use the detergent is the cheapest
that delivers a perfect result. In fact now with the
Aldi dishwasher detergent, its not only the cheapest
I can get but also delivers a perfect result every time.

I've tried all detergents. They make no difference to the end result.

I tried quite a few and some did.

But using a longer/hotter wash helps a lot,

Still found some that didn't clean the worst as well
and one that left that haze on the glasses after a
number of cycles with that detergent which Finish
removed in just one cycle.

and using rinse aid helps a lot.

Makes no difference with mine.

so the detergent can leave it if it likes. I've set the rinse
aid selector to full.

Waste of money IMO, particularly with the
very cheap Logix and Finish discounted offers.

I buy supermarket brand stuff, works just fine.

You just said it does and you have
to give some stuff a second wash.

I never have to do that.

I've tried the expensive stuff like Finish and it was no better.

Then its either a **** dishwasher, not hot enough or long
enough cycle, or you don't stack the contents properly so
the detergent can't get at some bits in contact with others.

It's a Beko DWD 5411W AAA class. I know nothing about it, I was given
it when someone changed the colour of their kitchen.

I always leave plenty gap for the water to spray into each dish.

I run it at the hottest longest setting, about 70C for an hour and a
bit.

The Bosch takes a lot longer than that, 2:15,
presumably reason for the better result.

I'm not sure of the time it takes, but my washing machine is about that
long, and I'm fairly sure my dishwasher is quicker.

Mine is the reverse, the washing machine takes much less
time, not even half the time. But it is a non eco top loader
and I wash clothes in cold water all the time.

I never rinse or anything, just tip stuff like chop bones
and T bones into the bin before the plate goes into
the dishwasher and do a run usually about every 2
weeks, when there are no more clean dinner plates.

Same here, but more often as I have many many pets and use a lot
of dishes.

Why do you bother to give them a
clean one every meal with the pets ?

To avoid disease?

You don't get disease if you don't do that.

Then why do you ever wash your own dishes?

I prefer it. Nothing to do with disease.

And your cats wouldn't?

I don't care what they prefer, and they arent
my cats, they were the neighbours cats.

They're damn fussy about cleanliness.

They ate the food anyway.

I didn't ever have a bowl with my dog. I used to buy the
massive great 10KG sacks of dry dog food. Put it on the
concrete floor, slash the sack with a stanley knife and let
him help himself. When the sack was empty, slash another.

With a cat that would end up with the whole room covered in food. They're
****ing untidy.

Never got that when I did have cats.

The water bowl was one of those plastic icecream containers.
When that was empty he's shove it around the floor with his
nose and I'd fill it again and never bothered to wash it.

Guess with cats they can turn their noses up at dirty plates.

They're ****ing fussy. They beg for food,

That's likely habit. I managed to accidentally train my
neighbours cats when I fed them for the winter when
the neighbours used to trek to warmer climes in their
RV ever winter. I set an alarm in Outlook to remind
me to feed them since the cats stayed over their place.

Once the neighbours returned in spring, it was
obvious that I always fed them at the same time
every day because the buggers would stamp their
feet and demand to be fed at that time ever after.

I tend to feed mine at certain times of day (with wet meat),
otherwise they just eat as much as they can. They can live on the
cheaper dry food for the rest of the time. But they don't seem to
learn when they're going to get fed, they just moan all the time.
I'm surprised your neighbour's cats learned to read a clock.

They didn't, they got into the habit of eating at that time.

But how did they know what time it was?

Same way I know what the time is without using a clock.

Most people can't do that, let alone animals.

I can. I only ever bothered with an alarm when catching
the very early commercial plane and even then, I was
always awake when the alarm went off.

I don't wear a watch at all anymore and can always
give you the rough time within half an hour or so.

Not so reliably if I wake in the night tho.

Mine just whine when they're hungry. That time changes depending if
they've scrounged food off my neighbours while I was asleep.

then eat half of it, then refuse to eat the rest 2 hours later.

I just leave it there and they eat it or starve.

Yes they will if they have to. But there's much complaining
beforehand.

And I never washed their bowels

Bowels, ROFL!

every day either
and they never did get sick the whole winter.

Probably every 3 or 4 days I run the dishwasher.

I forgot to say that I only have one proper meal on a plate
every day. I don't bother with lunch, at most have an apple
or a couple of bananas and use the same small plate for
about half the dishwasher run time for the massive great
thick slab of toast that's my only breakfast. In other words
usually only a couple of those breakfast plates per
dishwasher run.

I also have one meal a day. Dunno where all the dishes come from
really.

And wash extremely filthy stuff like the roast lamb
roast pan with nothing done before washing except
to melt the fat and pour that off into an empty can.
And only wash that after a number of roasts. The
worst of the detergents don't get as good a result.

I leave stuff caked on for a few days, and a few dishes will come
out still slightly dirty,

Don't ever get that with the Logix or Finish tabs,
in the Bosch dishwasher on the ultra hot cycle.
I use the most aggressive cycle because some
of the other stuff like the shallow dishes I do the
filo chicken pillows etc in the convection oven
get really baked on stuff in them.

I find anything that's not got a decent amount of space for the
water to splash around doesn't get clean.

I do make sure that plates arent touching each other.

Which means there's not much space in it.

Huh ?

To leave a gap between two plates, you're not putting a plate inbetween.

I put mine in every slot in the rack and that
leaves plenty of space between each plate.

I find that results in 50% of them being left dirty.

That would be down to it being a steaming turd of a dishwasher.

Especially when they're all different shapes.

Makes no difference with the Bosch.

It's a Beko dishwasher though....

Yeah, likely the problem.

It was free and only 6 months old. The owner said it didn't match
the colour of her new kitchen.

And a dud design most likely. Dishwashers arent
trivial to design well, they only have water spray,

It's not that complicated a mechanism.

But it does need careful design of the detergent and
cycles for that to get everything perfect every time.

How difficult can it be to make a powder that dissolves stuff?

Very with the worst stuff. Even the best doesn't get rid of the
baked on grime with the glass convection ovens that have been
dishwashed every say 50 uses as an oven with the baked on fat.

https://www.betta.com.au/sunbeam-co3...BoCTkgQAvD_BwE

I don't pay anything even remotely like that for mine,
normally $5 or $10 from garage sales, brand new unused.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:42:00 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:37:33 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:32:07 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:53:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:32:50 +0100, wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 June 2018 14:24:05 UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:20:53 +0100,
wrote:

I have always been a fan of Cascade Platinum Actionpacs.
Just
to
compare, bought some Finish powder recently and it keeps
clumping,
which
means that our dishes were coming out dirty and needing
rewashing
pretty
much every time we ran it. So, will ci=ome back to Cascade
again.
You
can surely do your own research by reading reviews from
https://www.theolive.com/reviews/bes...her-detergent/
,
and
playing with various detergents.

They're all the same, it's just detergent.

When I tried all the brands of dishwasher tablets here I found
no difference. They're not as simple as just detergent, but
there doesn't seem to be any significant difference in
performance.

They're not exactly the latest in technology,

They do in fact keep changing the technology.

How long have dishwashers been available? It's about time they'd
perfected it?

They havent even done that with washing machine
detergent and washing machines have been around
for a lot longer than dishwashers.

In spades with what is used in the bath or shower.

there's no reason they shouldn't all be the same.

The obvious reason is that some ingredients are cheaper
than others. And some do more R&D than others too.

How much research is needed after all this time?

Must be some or they wouldn't bother doing it.

Or they're stupid. Cleaning isn't rocket science.

Getting a perfect result every time in every dishwasher
out there isnt trivial. As is obvious with that other one
that left a haze on glasses after a number of washes.

How hard can it be to make a chemical that cleans stuff?

Not trivial when all you have is a water stray to get
even the worst grime off, and not destroy the most
delicate glassware and decorated plates etc.

This is the 21st century ffs.

We havent even been able to develop a robot
that will wipe little kids and senile geriatric arses.

Or even feed either of those either.

What I'm most surprised at is our lack of space travel.

I'm not given that there is nowhere worth going to that doesn't
involve an utterly obscene quality of life when you get there.

Then we should be researching places that are worthwhile.

We've done that and havent found any
that are within a viable travel distance.

And since we can't even travel properly, how would we know?

We have these funky devices that allow us to work out what
the situation is like there without actually going there in person.

And know that there arent any within viable travel distances.

That one that left a haze on glassware after a number
of washed did eventually get their act into gear and
reformulated theirs and fixed that problem. And sent
me a box of the new ones unsolicited when I had
claimed a refund on the earlier dud formulation.

Don't you use rinse aid?

Nope, waste of money. I use the cheapest Logix or
Finish tabs I can find on offer. Currently mostly Logix
since we have a new Aldi since the start of last year
and those work out cheaper than the best Finish
discount offers here.

I use Aldi tablets, they aren't called Logix though.

Ours are. Two different types, quite different prices.

The Aldi here has only one option for everything. No branded
products,

Ours are all branded, but mostly with Aldi's own brand with stuff like
that.
Yours does too.

My Aldi sells no branded stuff.

Not with dishwasher detergent, yours is branded Magnum.

Which is only available in Aldi. It's an Aldi name.

Still branded.

and only one option for an Aldi product.

That's not true of washing machine detergents.

It is.

Nope. Roughly 6 alternatives.

Not in my Aldi.

Your problem. Bet there is more than just one.

And when there's two flavours (like diet and non-diet coke) they're
mixed in the same ****ing container, so you often have to dig deep to
get the one you want, or even worse it's out of stock as everyone
picked the diet stuff so only the sugary one is left. And also, I
get told off for buying 12 boxes of catfood as I emptied the shelf.
I told the manager she ought to run a decent shop like Asda across
the road that can manage to cater for one person with 6 cats.

The cheapest works fine it the Bosch
with the hottest and longest cycle.

I don't care about the electricity cost since I normally
do a run every 2 weeks or so with the dishes and
another every 24 days for the full sized beer bottles,
because 24 fills the bottom rack completely and
those wont fit in the top rack.

The electricity to run a dishwasher isn't that much as it only runs
for a short time.

I meant the cost of heating the water.
Not much water tho so its no big deal.

That's included in the electricity for the dishwasher,

Duh. But it is the main electricity cost.

What was your point here?

That the cost of running the dishwasher is dominated
by the cost of heating the water, but since that's only
23L in my case, its not enough to matter.

as they're stupidly designed and cold fill.

Nothing stupid about it. Works best to do an initial cold rinse
because that doesn't bake the egg particularly onto the plates.

And given that they use so little water, you wont get much
hot water even with a hot water feed so have to heat it anyway.

Gas is cheaper to heat with.

Sure, but in practice, because they use so little water,
you wont in fact get much water heated by gas into the
dishwasher and will have to heat it with electricity anyway.

And it obviously isnt viable to have an instant gas water
heater just for the dishwasher, right next to it. Or to have
dishwashers that use gas to heat the water either.

But I have found that washing machine detergent is crap if you
buy the cheaper supermarket stuff.

So why isnt that just as true of dishwasher detergent ?

No idea.

In fact we have had washing machines for a lot
longer that dishwashers, so your line about how
long they have been making them for can't fly.

Because manufacturers are stupid?

Unlikely they all are with such a big industry.

Perhaps they think they can get away with selling us powdered sugar?

Doesn't clean anything very well. In fact they use very
aggressive alkalis that really **** anodised aluminium.

I find my microwave is what breaks stuff, that and me bumping them
against stuff. Don't ever buy anything made of melamine, it's ****.

Works fine for the square lidded bowls I do the rice in.

Some melamine isn't microwave proof.

So buy the stuff that is. Almost everything but the cheapest chinese
**** is labelled as microwaveable and dishwasherable now.

I assumed it all was. The Ebay seller lost money because they
misadvertised. I don't tolerate this kind of behaviour.

It absorbs a lot of microwaves and splits, explosively.

Only with the worst chinese ****.

Not my problem.

It is when you have to fart around getting a refund.

I got a melamine bowl that literally exploded in the microwave, bits
flew off it.

Doesn't happen with mine.

Apparently the stuff is poisonous, I played hell with the seller.

Presumably chinese ****. I've had mine for well over 40 years now
and found some more identical ones at a garage sale recently.

I can't believe detergent costs much to make.

They arent hugely profitable.

And the cheaper soft rinse is neither soft or smells nice.

Don't use any rinse in either the washing machine or the
dishwasher.

And I don't want my clothes to smell of anything.

Why not?

Not into perfumed ****.

Same with what I use in the shower, I use Pears Transparent
because it doesn't leave me stinking of some perfume.

Perfume covers sweat smells.

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

All perfumes stink.

They smell nicer than sweat.

My sweat doesn't stink.

It will if you leave it on you or your shirt for a bit.

Mine doesn't. And I know that because my T shirts are
noticeably sweaty when out walking for exercise in summer.

Then you're superhuman :-)

Nope, true of most of those I pass when walking too.

A few stink, but most don't.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 07:21:42 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

Then you're quite unusual, because most folk if they walk or run in hot
weather for an hour will stink to high heaven.

I don't find that with the ones I pass. Some do, but most don't.

Yeah, but you are SENILE! Never forget that, Rot!

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 07:35:12 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

FLUSH the two idiots' unbelievably idiotic drivel

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 07:54:09 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:



Nope, true of most of those I pass when walking too.

A few stink, but most don't.

A pig doesn't know either that it stinks. You seniles aren't much different
in that respect! BG

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:58:20 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 19:55:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:22:39 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:24:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:32:34 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

The Other John wrote
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote

What ****es me off is they wrap each one separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well!
With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

Cant you keep a small pair of surgical scissors in the box of
tabs ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Medical-O...Z0Ga-IolczU_eQ

Why should he have to? The tabs should be non-wrapped.

Doesn't work, the stuff is hygroscopic.

You can buy the powder in a bottle without any wrapping and just
pour it in, what's so special about tabs that they need little
wrappers?

They are hygroscopic.

Surely they're just powder in a lump?

Nope, different constituents.

Why?

So it doesn't clump with the powder form.

I'd buy powder or liquid if I could

I wouldn't.

Easier to just pour a bit of liquid in. That's what I do with the washing
machine.

but all the supermarkets just sell tablets. I don't want ****ing
individual wrappers!

Some tablets have wrappers that dissolve in the
dishwasher so you don't have to remove the wrapper.

Never seen those.

It's as bad as paracetamol. That should be sold loose in bottles, not
in silly little push the tablet out and smash it to pieces sachets!

All of my meds are like that now and I don't ever smash any pills.

Some tablets, particularly paracetamol, always break in half.

The blood pressure meds

I used to take those, they don't work on me at all. Who's to say what
blood pressure is "correct" anyway? Docs seem to think 50% of us have it
too high?!?

are also available in little plastic
bottles, because some have only half a pill twice a day but
I prefer the cards with individual push out pills and I now
take one pill twice a day.

Bottles of 100 paracetamol would be so much easier than those ****ing push
out of sealed cards crap. Less wasteful packaging too.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:58:20 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 19:55:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:22:39 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:24:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:32:34 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

The Other John wrote
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote

What ****es me off is they wrap each one separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well!
With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

Cant you keep a small pair of surgical scissors in the box of
tabs ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Medical-O...Z0Ga-IolczU_eQ

Why should he have to? The tabs should be non-wrapped.

Doesn't work, the stuff is hygroscopic.

You can buy the powder in a bottle without any wrapping and just
pour it in, what's so special about tabs that they need little
wrappers?

They are hygroscopic.

Surely they're just powder in a lump?

Nope, different constituents.

Why?

So it doesn't clump with the powder form.

I'd buy powder or liquid if I could

I wouldn't.

Easier to just pour a bit of liquid in.

I don't agree. I do use a liquid detergent in the washing
machine, but that's because I only wash in cold water
and have a hell of a problem with not fully dissolved
detergent leaving a scum on the very dark blue T
shirts I wear every day, even in winter.

It's a nuisance to have to measure it out tho,
I much prefer to use tablets in the dishwasher.

That's what I do with the washing machine.

I do too, but would prefer to use a tablet.

But there are no good liquid dishwasher detergents.

but all the supermarkets just sell tablets. I don't want ****ing
individual wrappers!

Some tablets have wrappers that dissolve in the
dishwasher so you don't have to remove the wrapper.

Never seen those.

Read the box, plenty of them. Our Aldi ones are like that but for some
reason it's a different brand to yours so may not be true of yours.

It's as bad as paracetamol. That should be sold loose in bottles, not
in silly little push the tablet out and smash it to pieces sachets!

All of my meds are like that now and I don't ever smash any pills.

Some tablets, particularly paracetamol, always break in half.

Never do for me.

The blood pressure meds

I used to take those, they don't work on me at all.

They do for me.

Who's to say what blood pressure is "correct" anyway?

The double blind trials do show that those with the
lower blood pressure do better in the long term as
long as its in the normal range after taking the pills.

Docs seem to think 50% of us have it too high?!?

And there is some evidence that it is.

are also available in little plastic
bottles, because some have only half a pill twice a day but
I prefer the cards with individual push out pills and I now
take one pill twice a day.

Bottles of 100 paracetamol would be so much easier than those ****ing push
out of sealed cards crap.

I hardly ever use anything for headaches, only ever few years.

Less wasteful packaging too.

Sure, but its not bad enough to matter.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 09:19:50 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:


Easier to just pour a bit of liquid in.

I don't agree.

Do you, you endlessly driveling senile **** from Oz?

FLUSH all the rest of the usual idiotic drivel unread again

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 22:19:59 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:54:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:36:36 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:44:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 19:57:02 +0100, The Other John
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

What ****es me off is they wrap each one
separately. Why?

To make them child proof 'cos idiot kids think they're sweets!
Trouble
is they are not only child proof they're adult proof as well!
With
arthritic hands I have a hell of a job getting them unwrapped.

There's nothing on god's earth which is more child proof than
adult proof.

Plenty that uses the fact that adults have much bigger and
stronger hands is.

Everything like pills requires more dexterity, not strength.

That's not true of the bigger caps that are used on plastic
bottles of metho, acetone, white spirit, bleach etc that
you have to squeeze before you can turn the cap.

Rubbish, you don't have to squeeze those very hard.

Too hard for the youngest kids that shove almost anything in
their mouths to be able to do tho given the size of the caps.

Fact: adults ask kids to open childproof caps for them.

Not the sub 2 year olds that put everything in their mouths.

But adults can keep dangerous stuff away from those by height.

The trick is to squeeze and turn in one motion,

And the little kids that shove anything into their mouths can't do
that.

And neither can some adults.

Yes, some with arthritis do have a problem with those.

They **** off most healthy adults too.

something that larger hands are rubbish at.

Bull****. Works fine for me.

But the less abled adults don't matter eh?

Corse they do, particularly the ones with arthritis,
but only much more expensive fully electronic with
RFIDs on the wrist of the adult work with those.

Or just normal non-safety caps.

Adults have larger hands so less dexterity.

That's wrong with women particularly.

Maybe so, but men use white spirit.

And can get the caps off those fine.

It's been proven in studies adults are worse at undoing those caps.

Like hell it has.

It has.
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/16/s...n-ignored.html

That's not talking about what is harder for adults than kids,
its saying that the downside with those caps is that some
adults don't put the lid on again with stuff like pills where
it works fine to leave the cap off.

Which defeats the point of the nanny society protection.

Yes, that's why we mostly have those cards with push out pills now.

And for those that can't use those due to arthritis etc
you can also get fancy machines that get loaded by
the pharmacy with the month supply of pills that
run the pills out into a little bin thing at them time
the pill needs to be taken where even the most
disabled person can pick them up and no kid
can feast on the full month supply etc.

A kid can't open the push out packs?!

It's all a load of ********. There's nothing that will fool a child
and not an adult.

It isnt about fooling, its about stuff that requires more strength
and bigger hands than those very young kids have.

Bull****. It's not strength but dexterity you need. You need to do a
push and a turn at once.

There isnt just one type of very young child proof cap.

I've only seen two. Squeeze the edges and turn, or push down and turn.

Same with the cupboard door catches where you put your
finger thru a hole in the door that need longer fingers.

Besides, shouldn't it be up to the parents to keep the tablets
away from their kids?

Easier said than done quite a bit of the time
with stuff that's used most days. Few want to
fart around locking stuff like that up and the
kids will soon work out where the key is anyway.

Well that's the parents' problem.

Not a solvable one;

You educate your kids

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that
you have never tried that with a sub 2 year old.

Use the below then. Not hard to keep things out of reach of a 2 year
old.

Harder than you might think. We had someone post a video of
their little monkey shinning up the allegedly child proof gate
of the swimming pool, wearing just his nappy. with the 5' high
vertical rails between his toes. Caused one hell of a commotion
on facebook. In their case the pool hadn't been built yet, just
the fence and gate and they decided to not dig the pool until
he was older.

Corse even that situation is doable with an RFID system with
permanent plastic bracelets for the adults and older kids and
none for the youngest kids.

Just let the morons take themselves out of the gene pool.

or keep the stuff where they don't know it is

Have fun with that with stuff you use every day.

Most people have cupboards at eye level. Kids old enough to reach
those can be taught not to be stupid.

Doest work like that with the worst of the little monkeys.

Makes more sense to do with with the RFID bracelet approach.

What a waste of time.

or can't reach it

The worst of the little monkeys can get anywhere
an adult can with stuff used every day.

or don't have a key.

Have fun ensuring that the kid doesn't know
where the key is with stuff used every day.

I never had a problem drinking bleach as a child....

But plenty of other kids did.

Then they should be out of the gene pool.

Doesn't usually kill them.

Then what's the problem?

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 22:21:42 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:59:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:37:32 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:12:56 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

Not when it's fresh sweat it doesn't. But give the skin bacteria
under
your armpit a chance to have a go at it, and then it niffs.

Bit like fresh pee, which is sterile when it exits the body
(unless you
have a bladder infection). Given time in the loo bowl and bacteria
from
the air working on it, and that then pongs of ammonia.

Bull****, both stink immediately.

Not with most people.

Think of a changing room after a rugby match etc.

That's because they have been sweating for hours before that.

So your sweat magically disappears after 2 minutes then?

Nope, just doesn't stink. When I go out for a walk for exercise
in summer when it isnt possible to get home before its over
25C, my T shirt is noticeably sweaty, but it doesn't stink at all.

And I do notice it when visitors show up after having a shower at
their place, notice the stink from the soap or body wash they use.

Then you're quite unusual, because most folk if they walk or run in hot
weather for an hour will stink to high heaven.

I don't find that with the ones I pass. Some do, but most don't.

You won't notice the smell outdoors. Even my cat's **** doesn't stink
outdoors.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 22:21:42 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:59:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:37:32 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 22:12:56 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:40:35 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

I don't stink when I sweat.

Then you're one in a million. Most sweat stinks.

Not when it's fresh sweat it doesn't. But give the skin bacteria
under
your armpit a chance to have a go at it, and then it niffs.

Bit like fresh pee, which is sterile when it exits the body
(unless you
have a bladder infection). Given time in the loo bowl and bacteria
from
the air working on it, and that then pongs of ammonia.

Bull****, both stink immediately.

Not with most people.

Think of a changing room after a rugby match etc.

That's because they have been sweating for hours before that.

So your sweat magically disappears after 2 minutes then?

Nope, just doesn't stink. When I go out for a walk for exercise
in summer when it isnt possible to get home before its over
25C, my T shirt is noticeably sweaty, but it doesn't stink at all.

And I do notice it when visitors show up after having a shower at
their place, notice the stink from the soap or body wash they use.

Then you're quite unusual, because most folk if they walk or run in hot
weather for an hour will stink to high heaven.

I don't find that with the ones I pass. Some do, but most don't.

You won't notice the smell outdoors. Even my cat's **** doesn't stink
outdoors.