Hi all
as per the subject - I am (re)making the connections to an isolator switch for an electric shower. The cable is 10mm and due to the construction of the switch I have to twist incoming and outgoing earths together. I can't seem to find 10mm Green/Yellow Earth sleeving online, 6mm seems the largest.. Am I forced to use tape (ugh), or is there a source for the sleeving, or a different approach, that I need appraising of?


Thanks
J^n

jkn laid this down on his screen :
Hi all
as per the subject - I am (re)making the connections to an isolator switch
for an electric shower. The cable is 10mm and due to the construction of the
switch I have to twist incoming and outgoing earths together. I can't seem to
find 10mm Green/Yellow Earth sleeving online, 6mm seems the largest. Am I
forced to use tape (ugh), or is there a source for the sleeving, or a
different approach, that I need appraising of?


6mm sleeving should fit the earth conductor of 10mm T&E.

On 10/05/2018 10:41, jkn wrote:
Hi all as per the subject - I am (re)making the connections to an
isolator switch for an electric shower. The cable is 10mm and due to
the construction of the switch I have to twist incoming and outgoing
earths together. I can't seem to find 10mm Green/Yellow Earth
sleeving online, 6mm seems the largest. Am I forced to use tape
(ugh), or is there a source for the sleeving, or a different
approach, that I need appraising of?

Sleeves are generally measure in outer diameter, so allowance of wall
thickness has to be considered.

https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/...-earth-cable-1

suggests the CPC for 10mm conductors is 4sqmm suggesting a diameter of
2.25mm.

Even 10sqmm only has a diameter of 3.5mm

Hi Harry

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 11:53:14 AM UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
jkn laid this down on his screen :
Hi all
as per the subject - I am (re)making the connections to an isolator switch
for an electric shower. The cable is 10mm and due to the construction of the
switch I have to twist incoming and outgoing earths together. I can't seem to
find 10mm Green/Yellow Earth sleeving online, 6mm seems the largest. Am I
forced to use tape (ugh), or is there a source for the sleeving, or a
different approach, that I need appraising of?


6mm sleeving should fit the earth conductor of 10mm T&E.

Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted together
for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was hoping not to
have to separate them and have them joined in the screw terminal. But if that
is what people do, fair enough...

Cheers
J^n

jkn used his keyboard to write :
Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted
together
for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was hoping not to
have to separate them and have them joined in the screw terminal. But if that
is what people do, fair enough...

Better when carrying out tests, for them not to be twisted together
sharing one sleeve.

On 10/05/2018 12:05, jkn wrote:
Hi Harry

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 11:53:14 AM UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
jkn laid this down on his screen :
Hi all
as per the subject - I am (re)making the connections to an isolator switch
for an electric shower. The cable is 10mm and due to the construction of the
switch I have to twist incoming and outgoing earths together. I can't seem to
find 10mm Green/Yellow Earth sleeving online, 6mm seems the largest. Am I
forced to use tape (ugh), or is there a source for the sleeving, or a
different approach, that I need appraising of?


6mm sleeving should fit the earth conductor of 10mm T&E.

Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted together
for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was hoping not to
have to separate them and have them joined in the screw terminal. But if that
is what people do, fair enough...

Cheers
J^n


I think you need a proper mechanical connection, like a decent crimp.

You are only sleeving the earth line not the whole cable. Plenty
of sleeving available for that.

You also need RCD protection.

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 10/05/2018 12:05, jkn wrote:
Hi Harry

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 11:53:14 AM UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
jkn laid this down on his screen :
Hi all
as per the subject - I am (re)making the connections to an isolator switch
for an electric shower. The cable is 10mm and due to the construction of the
switch I have to twist incoming and outgoing earths together. I can't seem to
find 10mm Green/Yellow Earth sleeving online, 6mm seems the largest. Am I
forced to use tape (ugh), or is there a source for the sleeving, or a
different approach, that I need appraising of?


6mm sleeving should fit the earth conductor of 10mm T&E.

Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted together
for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was hoping not to
have to separate them and have them joined in the screw terminal. But if that
is what people do, fair enough...

Cheers
J^n



You also need RCD protection.


Even if remaking existing connections?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article ,
jkn wrote:
Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted
together for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was
hoping not to have to separate them and have them joined in the screw
terminal. But if that is what people do, fair enough...

Twisting together then fitting sleeving over both doesn't insulate the
earth properly, as it will still be exposed at the sheath end.

--
*I stayed up all night to see where the sun went. Then it dawned on me.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/05/2018 14:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jkn wrote:
Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted
together for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was
hoping not to have to separate them and have them joined in the screw
terminal. But if that is what people do, fair enough...

Twisting together then fitting sleeving over both doesn't insulate the
earth properly, as it will still be exposed at the sheath end.


Do you insulate the metal boxes they connect to?

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 10/05/2018 14:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jkn wrote:
Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted
together for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was
hoping not to have to separate them and have them joined in the screw
terminal. But if that is what people do, fair enough...

Twisting together then fitting sleeving over both doesn't insulate the
earth properly, as it will still be exposed at the sheath end.


Do you insulate the metal boxes they connect to?

The idea of the sleeving is to minimise the possibility of a short. And
the end of the outer sheath is often nicely positioned to catch a
terminal. Twisting earths together all their length also makes it more
difficult to 'page' the runs neatly. But carry on doing this if you are
too mean to pay for more lengths of sleeving.

--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hi Dave

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 3:04:49 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jkn wrote:
Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted
together for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was
hoping not to have to separate them and have them joined in the screw
terminal. But if that is what people do, fair enough...

Twisting together then fitting sleeving over both doesn't insulate the
earth properly, as it will still be exposed at the sheath end.


Fair point. The old isolator had two separate (connected, obviously) earth terminals, but I seemed to have used tape for insulator. The new (MK, supposedly
better, hmmph) isolator only has one earth terminal and I am anticipating some
awkwardness if I have to sleeve each earth separately and then twist them
together for the last couple of CMs.

But it seems like that is the way... thanks to all for the advice.

FWIW I guess I was thinking that '6mm earth sleeving' was 'sleeving for the
earth wire in a 6mm T+E cable', whereas I see now that that is not the case...
an eBay order for a few metres has just gone in.

Cheers
J^n

On 10/05/18 12:37, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
jkn used his keyboard to write :
Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted
together
for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was hoping
not to
have to separate them and have them joined in the screw terminal. But
if that
is what people do, fair enough...

Better when carrying out tests, for them not to be twisted together
sharing one sleeve.

At the CU on a ring, definitely (you need to do end-end and figure-8
tests that require accessing all 6 conductors individually.

In devices, I am less convinced it's a problem rather than just a mantra.

Adam may shed some light on this, but the only time I can think you'd
want to separate conductors in a device is for locating a suspected
fault. There's no routine testing I can think of that would need that,
*except* if you needed to isolate a branch because it had a sensitive
device on the end. If the device *is* the sensitive part, you might take
it off and stick a terminal block on the end of the wires.

Never heard of cross-connection testing?

On 10/05/2018 14:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jkn wrote:
Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted
together for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was
hoping not to have to separate them and have them joined in the screw
terminal. But if that is what people do, fair enough...

Twisting together then fitting sleeving over both doesn't insulate the
earth properly, as it will still be exposed at the sheath end.


Correct and the reg that applies I would say is somewhere in the regs:-)

It's the sort of thing that you spot and wonder "What else is wrong?"

--
Adam

On 10/05/2018 15:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 10/05/2018 14:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jkn wrote:
Well ... I have currently got the incoming and outgoing earths twisted
together for a length (2--3 inches), and I doubt it will fit that. I was
hoping not to have to separate them and have them joined in the screw
terminal. But if that is what people do, fair enough...

Twisting together then fitting sleeving over both doesn't insulate the
earth properly, as it will still be exposed at the sheath end.


Do you insulate the metal boxes they connect to?

The idea of the sleeving is to minimise the possibility of a short. And
the end of the outer sheath is often nicely positioned to catch a
terminal. Twisting earths together all their length also makes it more
difficult to 'page' the runs neatly. But carry on doing this if you are
too mean to pay for more lengths of sleeving.



TBH earth sleeving and the PVC coverings of the L&N cores are not going
to do much against a short caused by a socket screw. The live cores
should in most cases be semi enclosed inside a terminal to prevent a
fault (ie no bare copper sticking out on the live terminals).

However I think dennis is asking if the earth sleeving protects against
a earth/earth fault between socket and metal back box should you put the
socket screw through the green/yellow insulation and catch the cpc
(earth) cable with the screw.

Now I seem to recall that you always fit an earth flylead between
sockets and backboxes.


--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
The idea of the sleeving is to minimise the possibility of a short. And
the end of the outer sheath is often nicely positioned to catch a
terminal. Twisting earths together all their length also makes it more
difficult to 'page' the runs neatly. But carry on doing this if you are
too mean to pay for more lengths of sleeving.



TBH earth sleeving and the PVC coverings of the L&N cores are not going
to do much against a short caused by a socket screw. The live cores
should in most cases be semi enclosed inside a terminal to prevent a
fault (ie no bare copper sticking out on the live terminals).

Yes it's unlikely. But if impossible, no point in using sleeving at all. I
doubt even dennis needs to know which one is the earth wire with TW&E by
its colour.

--
*Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 11/05/18 00:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
The idea of the sleeving is to minimise the possibility of a short. And
the end of the outer sheath is often nicely positioned to catch a
terminal. Twisting earths together all their length also makes it more
difficult to 'page' the runs neatly. But carry on doing this if you are
too mean to pay for more lengths of sleeving.



TBH earth sleeving and the PVC coverings of the L&N cores are not going
to do much against a short caused by a socket screw. The live cores
should in most cases be semi enclosed inside a terminal to prevent a
fault (ie no bare copper sticking out on the live terminals).

Yes it's unlikely. But if impossible, no point in using sleeving at all. I
doubt even dennis needs to know which one is the earth wire with TW&E by
its colour.


Interestingly the Americans don't use CPC sleeving in any video I've
ever seen. And their line terminals are often extremely exposed as a pan
head screw you turn the conductor under. That's one case where I think
it would have a provable benefit.

On 11/05/2018 08:24, Tim Watts wrote:
On 11/05/18 00:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* ARW wrote:
The idea of the sleeving is to minimise the possibility of a short. And
the end of the outer sheath is often nicely positioned to catch a
terminal. Twisting earths together all their length also makes it more
difficult to 'page' the runs neatly. But carry on doing this if you are
too mean to pay for more lengths of sleeving.



TBH earth sleeving and the PVC coverings of the L&N cores are not going
to do much against a short caused by a socket screw. The live cores
should in most cases be semi enclosed inside a terminal to prevent a
fault (ie no bare copper sticking out on the live terminals).

Yes it's unlikely. But if impossible, no point in using sleeving at
all. I
doubt even dennis needs to know which one is the earth wire with TW&E by
its colour.


Interestingly the Americans don't use CPC sleeving in any video I've
ever seen. And their line terminals are often extremely exposed as a pan
head screw you turn the conductor under. That's one case where I think
it would have a provable benefit.

I'm a bit surprised insulated CPCs haven't been mandated here. Ireland
has done so (and with the CPC the same size as the phases). And IIRC
the French have had insulated CPCs for years. Safety and harmonisation...

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Yes it's unlikely. But if impossible, no point in using sleeving at all. I
doubt even dennis needs to know which one is the earth wire with TW&E by
its colour.


Interestingly the Americans don't use CPC sleeving in any video I've
ever seen. And their line terminals are often extremely exposed as a pan
head screw you turn the conductor under. That's one case where I think
it would have a provable benefit.

it's one of those things. If the cables are correctly paged when fixing
the fitting to the box, the earth sleeve is redundant. After all at one
time it wasn't sleeved here either. But given a hank of sleeving is so
cheap, no reason not to use it anyway.

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Robin wrote:

I'm a bit surprised insulated CPCs haven't been mandated here. Ireland
has done so (and with the CPC the same size as the phases). And IIRC
the French have had insulated CPCs for years. Safety and harmonisation...

Maybe in 10 months we can import this :-P

https://www.jaycar.co.nz/red-black-green/p/WB1568

On 11/05/2018 10:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


it's one of those things. If the cables are correctly paged when fixing
the fitting to the box, the earth sleeve is redundant. After all at one
time it wasn't sleeved here either. But given a hank of sleeving is so
cheap, no reason not to use it anyway.


I have several hanks, because I can never find the damn stuff when I
want it.