Hi All

We have a house alarm keypad which needs moving. Unfortunately the wire is not long enough. Can I simply solder another bit of alarm wire to it to extend it? Probably about 1m.

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is relevant hence the question.

Thanks in advance

Lee.

Wrote in message:
Hi All

We have a house alarm keypad which needs moving. Unfortunately the wire is not long enough. Can I simply solder another bit of alarm wire to it to extend it? Probably about 1m.

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is relevant hence the question.

Istr that's to do with the wiring (tamper?) to the sensors not the
panel?
--
Jim K


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http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

wrote:
Hi All

We have a house alarm keypad which needs moving. Unfortunately the wire
is not long enough. Can I simply solder another bit of alarm wire to it
to extend it? Probably about 1m.

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is
relevant hence the question.

Thanks in advance

Lee.


Well, given that its most unlikely that the keypad can *only* be connected
with a fixed length of cable Id be amazed it adding a metre more cable
would make any difference.

Assuming you have the codes to deactivate the system whilst doing any
wiring, why not just try it?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 03/05/2018 08:15, wrote:
Hi All

We have a house alarm keypad which needs moving. Unfortunately the wire is not long enough. Can I simply solder another bit of alarm wire to it to extend it? Probably about 1m.

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is relevant hence the question.

Thanks in advance


You would possibly have to extend the cable by thousands of metres for
any resistance changes to be noticed by an alarm box.

As alternative to soldering maybe consider gel connectors used for
telephone wires
Example (random ebay listing)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/20-Pack-2-W...d=352017373664

No need to strip the wire, Just push in the two wires to be connected
and use a pair of pliers to push down the mechanism to make the connection.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 03/05/2018 08:38, alan_m wrote:

As alternative to soldering maybe consider gel connectors used for
telephone wires


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c854VnEjHaA

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 03/05/2018 08:38, alan_m wrote:


As alternative to soldering maybe consider gel connectors used for
telephone wires
Example (random ebay listing)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/20-Pack-2-W...d=352017373664


No need to strip the wire, Just push in the two wires to be connected
and use a pair of pliers to push down the mechanism to make the connection.


Never used them, what's the difference between the blue and the yellow
ones? Is it worth having a pack in the toolbox do you think?

---
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On 03/05/2018 08:44, newshound wrote:


No need to strip the wire, Just push in the two wires to be connected
and use a pair of pliers to push down the mechanism to make the
connection.


Never used them, what's the difference between the blue and the yellow
ones? Is it worth having a pack in the toolbox do you think?


I don't know what the difference is with the colours. Maybe different
manufactures, maybe different wire size? I purchased the un-coloured
ones which claimed to be BT originals which are suitable for
telephone/cat5/alarm type wires.

I used some to re-position my incoming telephone wires where they worked
as advertised. I still have the spares from around 4 years ago which I
have not found another use for.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
alan_m writes:
On 03/05/2018 08:15, wrote:
Hi All

We have a house alarm keypad which needs moving. Unfortunately the wire is not long enough. Can I simply solder another bit of alarm wire to it to extend it? Probably about 1m.

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is relevant hence the question.

Thanks in advance


You would possibly have to extend the cable by thousands of metres for
any resistance changes to be noticed by an alarm box.

As alternative to soldering maybe consider gel connectors used for
telephone wires
Example (random ebay listing)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/20-Pack-2-W...d=352017373664

No need to strip the wire, Just push in the two wires to be connected
and use a pair of pliers to push down the mechanism to make the connection.

You might be lucky, but they are designed for solid-core telephone
cable, not stranded alarm cable, and that is likely to make a
difference to the quality and longevity of the connection. They
are designed to cut into the surface of the solid core coper to
make a good connection, but the connection with strands which can
just move out of the way is likely to be much poorer.

Also note that alarm cable now comes in the traditional tinned
copper wire (good stuff) or in copper covered aluminium (CCA)
which is the cheaper grotty stuff, which is to be avoided.

Which reminds me - I picked up a reel of alarm cable from Maplin
last week (proper copper). At 80% off, it was down to about the
same price as CPC's regular price.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
wrote:
Hi All

We have a house alarm keypad which needs moving. Unfortunately the wire
is not long enough. Can I simply solder another bit of alarm wire to it
to extend it? Probably about 1m.

Is the cable on show? If so, soldering and sleeving carefully using heat
shrink sleeving may look best. If concealed, simply twist and use small
choc strip.

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is
relevant hence the question.

Not with either of the two keypads I've used.

Thanks in advance

Lee.

--
*When a man opens a car door for his wife, it's either a new car or a new

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

leenowell wrote:

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is
relevant hence the question.

Not with either of the two keypads I've used.

Even with alarms that do use EOL resistors (to sense multiple conditions
[normal, alarm, anti-mask, fault, tamper with a single pair) the cable
resistance is trivial compared to the resistances being measured.

On 03/05/2018 09:22, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Also note that alarm cable now comes in the traditional tinned
copper wire (good stuff) or in copper covered aluminium (CCA)
which is the cheaper grotty stuff, which is to be avoided.

That is a worthwhile point.

I recently gave a mate a hand to do his alarm. He bought all the kit and
the cable was CCA. I got him to swap it.


--
Adam

On Thu, 03 May 2018 11:05:25 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Is the cable on show? If so, soldering and sleeving carefully using heat
shrink sleeving may look best. If concealed, simply twist and use small
choc strip.

A choc strip isn't tamper proof. Solder and sleeving is as tamper
proof as the cable.

Use a proper alarm cable jointing box. Terminal for each wire and a
tamper switch that operates when you take the cover off.

--
Cheers
Dave.

wrote

We have a house alarm keypad which needs moving. Unfortunately
the wire is not long enough. Can I simply solder another bit of alarm
wire to it to extend it? Probably about 1m.

Yes.

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is
relevant

Not in that sense. They just use the resistance to decide if
the wire to the sensor has been cut or has got broken etc.

hence the question.

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Is the cable on show? If so, soldering and sleeving carefully using
heat shrink sleeving may look best. If concealed, simply twist and use
small choc strip.

A choc strip isn't tamper proof. Solder and sleeving is as tamper
proof as the cable.

If someone can take up the floorboards etc to get at an alarm cable, just
how it may or not be jointed is likely to be the least of your problems...

Use a proper alarm cable jointing box. Terminal for each wire and a
tamper switch that operates when you take the cover off.

--
*Even a blind pig stumbles across an acorn now and again *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks all for your help. Another job on the list for the weekend.

Depending on the run in place now being quite long I'd not expect an extra
metre to make any difference. is this the multi core or just a supply wire
or what. lots of alarm types out there and one would need to be mindful of
any anti tamper devices fitted, such as window comparators on a resistance
of a circuit etc.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

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wrote in message
...
Hi All

We have a house alarm keypad which needs moving. Unfortunately the wire is
not long enough. Can I simply solder another bit of alarm wire to it to
extend it? Probably about 1m.

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is
relevant hence the question.

Thanks in advance

Lee.

On 03/05/2018 19:30, ARW wrote:
On 03/05/2018 09:22, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Also note that alarm cable now comes in the traditional tinned
copper wire (good stuff) or in copper covered aluminium (CCA)
which is the cheaper grotty stuff, which is to be avoided.

That is a worthwhile point.

I recently gave a mate a hand to do his alarm. He bought all the kit and
the cable was CCA. I got him to swap it.



If it is CCA the OPs preferred solution of soldering may not work too well.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 03/05/2018 11:17, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

leenowell wrote:

I seem to recall somewhere that the resistance of the cable run is
relevant hence the question.

Not with either of the two keypads I've used.

Even with alarms that do use EOL resistors (to sense multiple conditions
[normal, alarm, anti-mask, fault, tamper with a single pair) the cable
resistance is trivial compared to the resistances being measured.


Typical specification for a good quality alarm wire is around 100 ohms
per kilometre. The anti tamper threshold resistances are 1000s of ohms
However, if the OP is going to extend the cable by many Km he may have
other problems than just the resistance of the wire.

http://www.neweyandeyre.co.uk/media/..._Technical.pdf


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Thu, 03 May 2018 23:34:00 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Is the cable on show? If so, soldering and sleeving carefully
using
heat shrink sleeving may look best. If concealed, simply twist
and use
small choc strip.

A choc strip isn't tamper proof. Solder and sleeving is as tamper
proof as the cable.

If someone can take up the floorboards etc to get at an alarm cable,
just how it may or not be jointed is likely to be the least of your
problems...

I got the impression that the joint would be exposed at the position
of the old device. If going the solder/heatshrink route stagger each
joint by about 1 cm to prevent gert big bulge if all the joints are
at the same place.

--
Cheers
Dave.

The joint would most likely be under the floorboards. I haven't yet looked at the route the wire takes but worse case is I cut it under the floor or ceiling above

On 03/05/2018 20:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 03 May 2018 11:05:25 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Is the cable on show? If so, soldering and sleeving carefully using heat
shrink sleeving may look best. If concealed, simply twist and use small
choc strip.

A choc strip isn't tamper proof. Solder and sleeving is as tamper
proof as the cable.

Use a proper alarm cable jointing box. Terminal for each wire and a
tamper switch that operates when you take the cover off.



Do you know how easy it is to take the cover off one without activating
the tamper switch if you wanted to? The same goes for bell boxes and
alarm panels.



--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 03/05/2018 20:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 03 May 2018 11:05:25 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Is the cable on show? If so, soldering and sleeving carefully using heat
shrink sleeving may look best. If concealed, simply twist and use small
choc strip.

A choc strip isn't tamper proof. Solder and sleeving is as tamper
proof as the cable.

Use a proper alarm cable jointing box. Terminal for each wire and a
tamper switch that operates when you take the cover off.



Do you know how easy it is to take the cover off one without activating
the tamper switch if you wanted to? The same goes for bell boxes and
alarm panels.

I'd guess any ner-do-well who was into tampering with alarm wiring would
be well aware of the easiest ways to do it. And it's not that difficult to
get at the conductors inside a cable run anyway, when you don't care about
how much damage you might do.

--
*Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

I'd guess any ner-do-well who was into tampering with alarm wiring would
be well aware of the easiest ways to do it.

If it's wired with a separate tamper loop, they're never going to be
sure which colour wires are which, and if it uses resistors any
cutting/shorting is going to trigger it anyway.

I presume they're either 'clever' enough to avoid places with an alarm,
or 'dumb' enough to assume it will go off and they have a few minutes to
grab and run anyway ... FSVO clever or dumb.

On 05/05/2018 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 03/05/2018 20:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 03 May 2018 11:05:25 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Is the cable on show? If so, soldering and sleeving carefully using heat
shrink sleeving may look best. If concealed, simply twist and use small
choc strip.

A choc strip isn't tamper proof. Solder and sleeving is as tamper
proof as the cable.

Use a proper alarm cable jointing box. Terminal for each wire and a
tamper switch that operates when you take the cover off.



Do you know how easy it is to take the cover off one without activating
the tamper switch if you wanted to? The same goes for bell boxes and
alarm panels.

I'd guess any ner-do-well who was into tampering with alarm wiring would
be well aware of the easiest ways to do it. And it's not that difficult to
get at the conductors inside a cable run anyway, when you don't care about
how much damage you might do.


I suppose it it worth mentioning again that 9 out of 10 of the alarms
that I fit (other than new builds) are fitted about a week after the
house has been burgled.


--
Adam

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

I'd guess any ner-do-well who was into tampering with alarm wiring would
be well aware of the easiest ways to do it.

If it's wired with a separate tamper loop, they're never going to be
sure which colour wires are which, and if it uses resistors any
cutting/shorting is going to trigger it anyway.

I presume they're either 'clever' enough to avoid places with an alarm,
or 'dumb' enough to assume it will go off and they have a few minutes to
grab and run anyway ... FSVO clever or dumb.

Yes - I'd guess most would either be an alarm expert and capable of
getting round the security systems, or not. Only a very thick burglar
would simply cut the cable.

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
ARW wrote:
I suppose it it worth mentioning again that 9 out of 10 of the alarms
that I fit (other than new builds) are fitted about a week after the
house has been burgled.

Yup. I've lived here for a long time, and the area has changed a lot. I
obviously could afford this area when I moved in, but zero chance if doing
the same now.

I had one 'successful' burglary and a couple of attempts before fitting an
alarm some 30 years ago, and since then none. But just how well it has
acted as a deterrent rather than just the area changing, I dunno.

--
*Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 05/05/2018 11:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes - I'd guess most would either be an alarm expert and capable of
getting round the security systems, or not.

Haven't you been watching the latest films and TV programs? All you need
is a box with flashing LEDs connected by two wires with croc clips.

Getting into security systems is in the same league as obtaining high
resolution pictures from a single pixel on a camera.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 05/05/2018 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 03/05/2018 20:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 03 May 2018 11:05:25 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Is the cable on show? If so, soldering and sleeving carefully using heat
shrink sleeving may look best. If concealed, simply twist and use small
choc strip.

A choc strip isn't tamper proof. Solder and sleeving is as tamper
proof as the cable.

Use a proper alarm cable jointing box. Terminal for each wire and a
tamper switch that operates when you take the cover off.



Do you know how easy it is to take the cover off one without activating
the tamper switch if you wanted to? The same goes for bell boxes and
alarm panels.

I'd guess any ner-do-well who was into tampering with alarm wiring would
be well aware of the easiest ways to do it. And it's not that difficult to
get at the conductors inside a cable run anyway, when you don't care about
how much damage you might do.


Its more difficult with modern systems, they can use end of line
terminations so they can detect cuts, shorts and changes in resistance.

The old Chubb systems I used to work on 40 years ago were easy to hack
if you knew how.

On 05/05/2018 17:26, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* ARW wrote:
On 03/05/2018 20:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 03 May 2018 11:05:25 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Is the cable on show? If so, soldering and sleeving carefully using
heat
shrink sleeving may look best. If concealed, simply twist and use
small
choc strip.

A choc strip isn't tamper proof. Solder and sleeving is as tamper
proof as the cable.

Use a proper alarm cable jointing box. Terminal for each wire and a
tamper switch that operates when you take the cover off.



Do you know how easy it is to take the cover off one without activating
the tamper switch if you wanted to? The same goes for bell boxes and
alarm panels.

I'd guess any ner-do-well who was into tampering with alarm wiring would
be well aware of the easiest ways to do it. And it's not that
difficult to
get at the conductors inside a cable run anyway, when you don't care
about
how much damage you might do.


Its more difficult with modern systems, they can use end of line
terminations so they can detect cuts, shorts and changes in resistance.

The old Chubb systems I used to work on 40 years ago were easy to hack
if you knew how.


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the bell
box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.

--
Adam

On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the bell
box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

On 05/05/2018 11:53, Huge wrote:
On 2018-05-05, ARW wrote:

[27 lines snipped]

I suppose it it worth mentioning again that 9 out of 10 of the alarms
that I fit (other than new builds) are fitted about a week after the
house has been burgled.

I know this isn't why they're fitted, but it's quite "normal" for the
burglars to come back in a few weeks to steal all the new shiny things
the insurance payout has bought.


Quite often exactly a week later. The insurance money has been spent on
replacing whatever was stolen and the burglars know from their previous
visit that the householder is most probably out.

Add in that any windows or doors that were forced will probably not have
been fixed to be completely secu it's much faster to replace a laptop
than it is to replace a back door and frame.

--
F

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the bell
box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Not possible to cut my phone.

F wrote:

Quite often exactly a week later. The insurance money has been spent on
replacing whatever was stolen

Sounds optimistic, a colleague was burgled just after xmas, he only got
the payment through last week to go out and replace stuff ...

On Sun, 06 May 2018 09:40:47 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

F wrote:

Quite often exactly a week later. The insurance money has been spent on
replacing whatever was stolen

Sounds optimistic, a colleague was burgled just after xmas, he only got
the payment through last week to go out and replace stuff ...

We were burgled on a Friday. I reported it on the Friday, and emailed
details of how much on Friday evening. The money was in my account by
close of business on Monday.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 06 May 2018 08:24:34 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2018-05-05, F news@nowhere wrote:
On 05/05/2018 11:53, Huge wrote:
On 2018-05-05, ARW wrote:

[27 lines snipped]

I suppose it it worth mentioning again that 9 out of 10 of the alarms
that I fit (other than new builds) are fitted about a week after the
house has been burgled.

I know this isn't why they're fitted, but it's quite "normal" for the
burglars to come back in a few weeks to steal all the new shiny things
the insurance payout has bought.


Quite often exactly a week later.

I doubt it. Which insurance company will pay out in a week? I've just
made a travel insurance claim, where we had a 100% squeaky clean
justification and full documentation and it still took them about six
weeks. Insurance companies are only quick and efficient at collecting
premiums.

Not true with our burglary. One working day.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 06 May 2018 10:16:19 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2018-05-06, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 09:40:47 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

F wrote:

Quite often exactly a week later. The insurance money has been spent
on replacing whatever was stolen

Sounds optimistic, a colleague was burgled just after xmas, he only
got the payment through last week to go out and replace stuff ...

We were burgled on a Friday. I reported it on the Friday, and emailed
details of how much on Friday evening. The money was in my account by
close of business on Monday.

When was that, 1972?

Last October.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Bob Eager wrote:

We were burgled on a Friday. I reported it on the Friday, and emailed
details of how much on Friday evening. The money was in my account by
close of business on Monday.

Hiscox?

On Sun, 06 May 2018 12:29:50 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:

We were burgled on a Friday. I reported it on the Friday, and emailed
details of how much on Friday evening. The money was in my account by
close of business on Monday.

Hiscox?

M & S



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the bell
box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.

--
Adam

On 06/05/2018 09:24, Huge wrote:
On 2018-05-05, F news@nowhere wrote:
On 05/05/2018 11:53, Huge wrote:
On 2018-05-05, ARW wrote:

[27 lines snipped]

I suppose it it worth mentioning again that 9 out of 10 of the alarms
that I fit (other than new builds) are fitted about a week after the
house has been burgled.

I know this isn't why they're fitted, but it's quite "normal" for the
burglars to come back in a few weeks to steal all the new shiny things
the insurance payout has bought.


Quite often exactly a week later.

I doubt it. Which insurance company will pay out in a week? I've just
made a travel insurance claim, where we had a 100% squeaky clean
justification and full documentation and it still took them about
six weeks. Insurance companies are only quick and efficient at collecting
premiums.



Direct Line were pretty fast when one of their drivers ran into the back
of my van at slow speed. I got a phone call the next day offering a hire
van and a full repair to my van.

I actually had sustained no damage and my tow bar had wrecked her air
con radiator and bumper etc. I spent ages arguing on the phone that I
did not need a repair and in the end they posted me a disclaimer for me
to sign.

--
Adam