On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the bell
box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the inside
of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not standard but it was
easy to do. Then there was a good chance that they would set the alarm
off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are cheap
and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the back
garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio doors and
went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking, the alarm
going off and the owners in bed upstairs.

On Sun, 06 May 2018 11:57:03 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2018-05-06, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 12:29:50 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:

We were burgled on a Friday. I reported it on the Friday, and emailed
details of how much on Friday evening. The money was in my account by
close of business on Monday.

Hiscox?

M & S

Interesting, because M&S Bank are HSBC, who outsource their insurance
products to Aviva.

They only moved their insurance operation to Aviva recently - after my
burglary, I believe.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the
bell box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the inside
of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not standard but it was
easy to do. Then there was a good chance that they would set the alarm
off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are cheap
and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the back
garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio doors and
went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking, the alarm
going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the bell
box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the inside
of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not standard but it was
easy to do. Then there was a good chance that they would set the alarm
off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are cheap
and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the back
garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio doors and
went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking, the alarm going
off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

Which particular bit is absolute ******** ?

It must be possible to ensure that no one can
get into the box without setting the alarm off.

On Sun, 06 May 2018 15:05:00 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2018-05-06, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 11:57:03 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2018-05-06, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2018 12:29:50 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:

We were burgled on a Friday. I reported it on the Friday, and
emailed details of how much on Friday evening. The money was in my
account by close of business on Monday.

Hiscox?

M & S

Interesting, because M&S Bank are HSBC, who outsource their insurance
products to Aviva.

They only moved their insurance operation to Aviva recently - after my
burglary, I believe.

Define "they". HSBC have been reselling Aviva products for some years,
although there was a big hoo-ha about it when they formally signed a big
deal in Aug 2017. I should know, I did the IT Security due diligence ...

The provider for M & S Insurance changed (not sure when, but it changed
for me on my renewal date, 28 April this year). Before that date, it was
AXA Insurance for me; now it's Aviva. Presumably they are bringing it in-
house.

(that's from a letter I received from M & S)



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 06/05/2018 19:17, Huge wrote:
On 2018-05-06, ARW wrote:
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:

[33 lines snipped]

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the back
garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio doors and
went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking, the alarm
going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

It's dennis. What did you expect?



I did not expect anything less than ********.


But at least he has a bell box. It looks like it is from the early 80's
but he has one.

--
Adam

On 06/05/2018 20:37, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the
bell box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the
inside of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not standard
but it was easy to do. Then there was a good chance that they would
set the alarm off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are
cheap and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the
back garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio
doors and went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking,
the alarm going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

Which particular bit is absolute ******** ?

It must be possible to ensure that no one can
get into the box without setting the alarm off.

It is possible, but no one does it.

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 20:37, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the
bell box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the
inside of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not standard
but it was easy to do. Then there was a good chance that they would set
the alarm off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are cheap
and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the
back garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio
doors and went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking, the
alarm going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

Which particular bit is absolute ******** ?

It must be possible to ensure that no one can
get into the box without setting the alarm off.

It is possible, but no one does it.

Why not ? It cant be that expensive to do.

On 07/05/2018 11:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 20:37, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the
bell box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the
van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the
inside of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not
standard but it was easy to do. Then there was a good chance that
they would set the alarm off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are
cheap and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the
back garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio
doors and went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking,
the alarm going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

Which particular bit is absolute ******** ?

It must be possible to ensure that no one can
get into the box without setting the alarm off.

It is possible, but no one does it.

Why not ?Â* It cant be that expensive to do.

Penny pinching *******s.

--
Adam

On 07/05/2018 07:56, ARW wrote:


But at least he has a bell box. It looks like it is from the early 80's
but he has one.


The outside cover of my bell boxes predate the 80's the insides are
arduino based.

On 07/05/2018 08:01, ARW wrote:
On 06/05/2018 20:37, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the
bell box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the
inside of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not standard
but it was easy to do. Then there was a good chance that they would
set the alarm off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are
cheap and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the
back garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio
doors and went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking,
the alarm going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

Which particular bit is absolute ******** ?

It must be possible to ensure that no one can
get into the box without setting the alarm off.

It is possible, but no one does it.


Its too expensive to make them really difficult, even the expensive (as
was) triangular ones weren't impossible, but they were double skinned to
stop some of the methods of attack, the rectangular ones were just
single skinned.

Things have moved on since I did any as it was 40+ years ago.

On 07/05/2018 11:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 20:37, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the
bell box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the
van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the
inside of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not
standard but it was easy to do. Then there was a good chance that
they would set the alarm off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are
cheap and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the
back garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio
doors and went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking,
the alarm going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

Which particular bit is absolute ******** ?

It must be possible to ensure that no one can
get into the box without setting the alarm off.

It is possible, but no one does it.

Why not ?Â* It cant be that expensive to do.

Its always going to be too expensive to cover everything.

You could fit a light sensor inside the box so they have to work in the
dark if they open it.

Or you could put a piece of glass in there with a LED at 45 degrees at
one end and a sensor the other. the light would get to the end by
multiple internal reflections and if the glass was broken, removed,
tilted or made wet the beam would break and the alarm would go off. The
wet bit is how car rain sensors work AIUI.

Its not a commercially viable product as nobody would pay the extra.

On 07/05/2018 15:52, dennis@home wrote:
On 07/05/2018 07:56, ARW wrote:


But at least he has a bell box. It looks like it is from the early
80's but he has one.


The outside cover of my bell boxes predate the 80's the insides are
arduino based.


So you claim.


I am more inclined to believe that Nun that arrived back at the convent
with a fanny full of spunk and said she was still a virgin.

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2018 11:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 20:37, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the
bell box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the
van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the
inside of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not standard
but it was easy to do. Then there was a good chance that they would
set the alarm off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are
cheap and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the
back garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio
doors and went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking,
the alarm going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

Which particular bit is absolute ******** ?

It must be possible to ensure that no one can
get into the box without setting the alarm off.

It is possible, but no one does it.

Why not ? It cant be that expensive to do.

Penny pinching *******s.

I dont believe that everyone is a penny pinching *******.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2018 08:01, ARW wrote:
On 06/05/2018 20:37, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the
bell box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the
van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the
inside of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not standard
but it was easy to do. Then there was a good chance that they would
set the alarm off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are
cheap and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the
back garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio
doors and went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking,
the alarm going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

Which particular bit is absolute ******** ?

It must be possible to ensure that no one can
get into the box without setting the alarm off.

It is possible, but no one does it.


Its too expensive to make them really difficult,

Nope, all you need is an internal vibration
sensor and the whole thing potted.

even the expensive (as was) triangular ones weren't impossible,

But they would be if designed properly.

but they were double skinned to stop some of the methods of attack, the
rectangular ones were just single skinned.

Things have moved on since I did any as it was 40+ years ago.

Yep, most obviously with potting
and with a built in vibration sensor.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2018 11:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 20:37, Rod Speed wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 06/05/2018 14:08, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/05/2018 13:44, ARW wrote:
On 05/05/2018 23:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/05/2018 17:54, ARW wrote:


They can use EOL if they want. The first thing to disable is the
bell box. Five minutes job done and the ladders are back on the
van.


Taking the cover off mine will sound the alarm in both bell boxes.
They probably think one is a dummy so will not be prepared.

They probably won't cut the phone either.

Most bell boxes sound if you remove the cover, hence you use other
methods to disable them than do not involve removing the cover.


foam is a bit hit and miss especially with double skinned bell boxes.
Most people probably wont know if its double skinned or not.

there are other methods but they are all a bit hit and miss.

When I was working for Chubb I used to run a thin wire around the
inside of the box and connect it to the tamper circuit. Not standard
but it was easy to do. Then there was a good chance that they would
set the alarm off if they drilled it.

These days you can just put a vibration sensor inside as they are
cheap and fairly reliable.


Of course no alarm will put junkies off.

I know of one burglary where two yobs kicked a gate in, went in the
back garden and picked up a bench which they threw though the patio
doors and went in and took the TV. All while the dogs were barking,
the alarm going off and the owners in bed upstairs.



You are talking ********.

Which particular bit is absolute ******** ?

It must be possible to ensure that no one can
get into the box without setting the alarm off.

It is possible, but no one does it.

Why not ? It cant be that expensive to do.

Its always going to be too expensive to cover everything.

Nope, potting it and including a vibration
sensor covers everything and isnt expensive.

You could fit a light sensor inside the box so they have to work in the
dark if they open it.

And you could have a vibration sensor so they couldnt
open it in the dark and have it potted so there would
be nothing useful they could do by opening it anyway.

Or you could put a piece of glass in there with a LED at 45 degrees at one
end and a sensor the other. the light would get to the end by multiple
internal reflections and if the glass was broken, removed, tilted or made
wet the beam would break and the alarm would go off. The wet bit is how
car rain sensors work AIUI.

Its not a commercially viable product as nobody would pay the extra.

But they would with it potted with a built in vibration sensor.

And trivial to add a vibration sensor and to fill it with foam if no
manufacturer has enough of a clue to do it right in the first place.

On 06/05/2018 09:40, Andy Burns wrote:
F wrote:

Quite often exactly a week later. The insurance money has been spent on
replacing whatever was stolen

Sounds optimistic, a colleague was burgled just after xmas, he only got
the payment through last week to go out and replace stuff ...

Happened to a friend and the Police said it was quite common.

--
F