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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 02:30, bm wrote:
"bm" wrote in message web.com... The national grid must be ****ing themselves. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...be-banned-2040 A typical worker thinks we just plug'em in and off to work we go. We have to pay HOW MUCH? French strike is called. Ohhhh, it's the libdems, forget it. Jeremy is still pondering, there's a surprise. One of the comments - Oh well looks like we will be back in the dark ages with a horse and trap as the family transport. At least part of a horses emmisions are useful on the roses. It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. |
#2
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
In article , Ash Burton
wrote: On 26/07/2017 02:30, bm wrote: "bm" wrote in message web.com... The national grid must be ****ing themselves. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...be-banned-2040 A typical worker thinks we just plug'em in and off to work we go. We have to pay HOW MUCH? French strike is called. Ohhhh, it's the libdems, forget it. Jeremy is still pondering, there's a surprise. One of the comments - Oh well looks like we will be back in the dark ages with a horse and trap as the family transport. At least part of a horses emmisions are useful on the roses. It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. by then I would be 100 years old, so probably won't be driving -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
#3
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote:
.... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) -- -- Colin Bignell |
#4
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On Wednesday, 26 July 2017 09:46:23 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) Depends on the cost of petrol and diesel, and the MOT and emissions requirements for petrol and diesel cars. Can we build (er, buy flat-pack from China) some nice nuclear power stations within the next 23 years? Owain |
#5
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
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#6
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
In article ,
wrote: On Wednesday, 26 July 2017 09:46:23 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote: It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) Depends on the cost of petrol and diesel, and the MOT and emissions requirements for petrol and diesel cars. and the range of electric vehicles. I am used to driving over 400 miles in a day. And don't say tak ethe train, I do wehn I've only a small case, but when I have a full car-load of equipment ..... -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
#7
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 09:42, charles wrote:
It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. by then I would be 100 years old, so probably won't be driving By 2040 you won't need to drive the car, the computer will do it. |
#8
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
"charles" wrote in message ... In article , Ash Burton wrote: On 26/07/2017 02:30, bm wrote: "bm" wrote in message web.com... The national grid must be ****ing themselves. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...be-banned-2040 A typical worker thinks we just plug'em in and off to work we go. We have to pay HOW MUCH? French strike is called. Ohhhh, it's the libdems, forget it. Jeremy is still pondering, there's a surprise. One of the comments - Oh well looks like we will be back in the dark ages with a horse and trap as the family transport. At least part of a horses emmisions are useful on the roses. It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. by then I would be 100 years old, so probably won't be driving You may well be dozing off in your self driving car during your day out from the care home tho. |
#9
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 09:46, Nightjar wrote:
On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote: ... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) You would buy a car when the fuel will become harder to find? As cars get scraped the garages will close due to lack of fuel sales and anyone buying the last of the fuel driven cars will end up with no fuel or expensive fuel long before the vehicle has worn out. Maybe you will be able to synthesis it from gas and electricity by then? |
#10
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26-Jul-17 10:34 AM, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/07/2017 09:46, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote: ... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) You would buy a car when the fuel will become harder to find? As cars get scraped the garages will close due to lack of fuel sales and anyone buying the last of the fuel driven cars will end up with no fuel or expensive fuel long before the vehicle has worn out. Barring a very major change in technology, diesel will still be needed for HGVs and most petrol cars can be converted to run on LPG, which does not appear to be covered in the proposals. Maybe you will be able to synthesis it from gas and electricity by then? It would be far better for the government to mandate emissions levels and leave it for the car industry to decide how they achieve that. -- -- Colin Bignell |
#11
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
"dennis@home" wrote in message web.com... On 26/07/2017 09:46, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote: ... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) You would buy a car when the fuel will become harder to find? Yep, its always going to be MUCH easier than farting around recharging your steaming turd of an electric car every 100 miles. As cars get scraped the garages will close due to lack of fuel sales Sure, but some will remain and they will always be a lot closer than 100 miles away. and anyone buying the last of the fuel driven cars will end up with no fuel or expensive fuel long before the vehicle has worn out. Bull****, because plenty will buy petrol and diesel cars while they can. And it aint gunna happen anyway, they wont be banned, you watch, the voters wont wear it. |
#12
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 10:57, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 10:34:18 +0100, "dennis@home" wrote: On 26/07/2017 09:46, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote: ... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) You would buy a car when the fuel will become harder to find? As cars get scraped the garages will close due to lack of fuel sales and anyone buying the last of the fuel driven cars will end up with no fuel or expensive fuel long before the vehicle has worn out. Maybe you will be able to synthesis it from gas and electricity by then? You could just convert them to run on gas. Back in the ?1960's, during the fuel rationing, our workshop technician modified the carb on his car to take gas (I think it was an SU carb and he just drilled out the jet and made a new needle), and had a bottle of propane on the back seat with a length of hose to the carb. How he didn't blow himself up, I don't know. The main problem was the gas bottle icing up. Can't imagine anyone doing anything like that now, although I guess more professional conversion kits are available. You could but, the range will be somewhat less unless you can find somewhere to fit a big gas tank. Also there probably won't be many places to fill up. |
#13
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 10:24, charles wrote:
In article , wrote: On Wednesday, 26 July 2017 09:46:23 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote: It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) Depends on the cost of petrol and diesel, and the MOT and emissions requirements for petrol and diesel cars. and the range of electric vehicles. I am used to driving over 400 miles in a day. And don't say tak ethe train, I do wehn I've only a small case, but when I have a full car-load of equipment ..... If you drive 400 miles in a day, then that's mostly motorway or A roads, so your car will use the 'Salextric' type slots which will be in the road by then. Cheers -- Clive |
#14
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:14:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/07/2017 10:57, Chris Hogg wrote: Can't imagine anyone doing anything like that now, although I guess more professional conversion kits are available. You could but, the range will be somewhat less unless you can find somewhere to fit a big gas tank. Also there probably won't be many places to fill up. More than you imagine. http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg...lling-station/ or have a look at the Shell UK site for Shell's own forecourts only. |
#15
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:22:03 +0100, Clive Arthur
wrote: If you drive 400 miles in a day, then that's mostly motorway or A roads, so your car will use the 'Salextric' type slots which will be in the road by then. It 'would need a bit of heavy engineering , London Trams used such a system on many of the inner sections of their routes and by the time they were abandoned they were getting trouble from the edges of the slot being damaged and bent in by heavier road vehicles, and that was "heavy" by 1950's std. And Trams were not doing much above 20-30mph. Lots of photos at how much engineering was required on here. http://www.dewi.ca/trains/london/trams.html A small bit remains visible on the tram tunnel entrance in the road near Holborn tube station, https://assets.londonist.com/uploads..._entrance1.jpg G.Harman |
#17
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:26:19 +0100, Clive Arthur
wrote: On 26/07/2017 11:58, wrote: On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:22:03 +0100, Clive Arthur wrote: If you drive 400 miles in a day, then that's mostly motorway or A roads, so your car will use the 'Salextric' type slots which will be in the road by then. It 'would need a bit of heavy engineering , London Trams used such a system on many of the inner sections of their routes I wasn't being entirely serious, but you don't need an actual slot, the computer control would position the car and/or pickups. This system used a slot, but only to guide the bogie through the 'points'. Look what happens when get it wrong... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvAHgwNkbHU I was trying to remember the name of that a few weeks back when there was some discussion about the Parry people mover, remember that clip going out on the evening news. G.Harman |
#18
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 11:22, Mark Allread wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:14:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote: On 26/07/2017 10:57, Chris Hogg wrote: Can't imagine anyone doing anything like that now, although I guess more professional conversion kits are available. You could but, the range will be somewhat less unless you can find somewhere to fit a big gas tank. Also there probably won't be many places to fill up. More than you imagine. http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg...lling-station/ or have a look at the Shell UK site for Shell's own forecourts only. That's the figures for 2040 onwards is it? |
#19
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 12:39, wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:26:19 +0100, Clive Arthur wrote: On 26/07/2017 11:58, wrote: On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:22:03 +0100, Clive Arthur wrote: If you drive 400 miles in a day, then that's mostly motorway or A roads, so your car will use the 'Salextric' type slots which will be in the road by then. It 'would need a bit of heavy engineering , London Trams used such a system on many of the inner sections of their routes I wasn't being entirely serious, but you don't need an actual slot, the computer control would position the car and/or pickups. This system used a slot, but only to guide the bogie through the 'points'. Look what happens when get it wrong... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvAHgwNkbHU I was trying to remember the name of that a few weeks back when there was some discussion about the Parry people mover, remember that clip going out on the evening news. G.Harman It (Briway) was badly organised, every part was new, nothing was taken from existing buses/trams/trains. Bristow was incapable of hearing what he didn't want to hear. He threw it out of his pram after the crash. I wrote the motor control software. That bit worked. Cheers -- Clive |
#20
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 13:04:13 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/07/2017 11:22, Mark Allread wrote: On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:14:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote: On 26/07/2017 10:57, Chris Hogg wrote: Can't imagine anyone doing anything like that now, although I guess more professional conversion kits are available. You could but, the range will be somewhat less unless you can find somewhere to fit a big gas tank. Also there probably won't be many places to fill up. More than you imagine. http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg...lling-station/ or have a look at the Shell UK site for Shell's own forecourts only. That's the figures for 2040 onwards is it? Sorry, I forgot you have literacy problems. I suggest you print out the pages on the links given above and take them to someone who can understand them and get them to tell you what the words mean. |
#21
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 7/26/2017 11:01 AM, Nightjar wrote:
On 26-Jul-17 10:34 AM, dennis@home wrote: On 26/07/2017 09:46, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote: ... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) You would buy a car when the fuel will become harder to find? As cars get scraped the garages will close due to lack of fuel sales and anyone buying the last of the fuel driven cars will end up with no fuel or expensive fuel long before the vehicle has worn out. Barring a very major change in technology, diesel will still be needed for HGVs and most petrol cars can be converted to run on LPG, which does not appear to be covered in the proposals. Hadn't realised LPG wasn't included, but on that timescale HGVs and long distance coaches could be developed to run on gas Maybe you will be able to synthesis it from gas and electricity by then? It would be far better for the government to mandate emissions levels and leave it for the car industry to decide how they achieve that. Normally I would tend to agree, but at least a ban on fossil fuels pushes everyone down the same route, it also eliminates the need to have, and regulate, the distribution infrastructure. |
#22
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
dennis@home wrote:
On 26/07/2017 09:42, charles wrote: It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. by then I would be 100 years old, so probably won't be driving By 2040 you won't need to drive the car, the computer will do it. That premise is as valid as the 50yr old one about us having a paperless office! |
#23
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 14:02, Mark Allread wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 13:04:13 +0100, dennis@home wrote: On 26/07/2017 11:22, Mark Allread wrote: On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:14:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote: On 26/07/2017 10:57, Chris Hogg wrote: Can't imagine anyone doing anything like that now, although I guess more professional conversion kits are available. You could but, the range will be somewhat less unless you can find somewhere to fit a big gas tank. Also there probably won't be many places to fill up. More than you imagine. http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg...lling-station/ or have a look at the Shell UK site for Shell's own forecourts only. That's the figures for 2040 onwards is it? Sorry, I forgot you have literacy problems. I suggest you print out the pages on the links given above and take them to someone who can understand them and get them to tell you what the words mean. Try and think about it.. less petrol and diesel cars so less petrol stations. Now where are these gas filling stations? |
#24
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 16:43:19 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/07/2017 14:02, Mark Allread wrote: On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 13:04:13 +0100, dennis@home wrote: On 26/07/2017 11:22, Mark Allread wrote: On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:14:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote: On 26/07/2017 10:57, Chris Hogg wrote: Can't imagine anyone doing anything like that now, although I guess more professional conversion kits are available. You could but, the range will be somewhat less unless you can find somewhere to fit a big gas tank. Also there probably won't be many places to fill up. More than you imagine. http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg...lling-station/ or have a look at the Shell UK site for Shell's own forecourts only. That's the figures for 2040 onwards is it? Sorry, I forgot you have literacy problems. I suggest you print out the pages on the links given above and take them to someone who can understand them and get them to tell you what the words mean. Try and think about it.. less petrol and diesel cars so less petrol stations. Now where are these gas filling stations? You did as I suggested did you and got someone to explain the words on the links to you? |
#25
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com... Try and think about it.. less petrol and diesel cars so less petrol stations. Now where are these gas filling stations? Given that those petrol stations will still need to exist as charging or battery-exchange stations, I wonder whether the number of stations will continue relatively unchanged and that they just sell less fuel (and therefore order less from their supplier) than at present. I suppose some smaller garages might decide that the sales of petrol/diesel have reached such a small amount that it is no longer worth buying *any* and maintaining the pumps and the tanks. |
#26
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 16:49, NY wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message web.com... Try and think about it.. less petrol and diesel cars so less petrol stations. Now where are these gas filling stations? Given that those petrol stations will still need to exist as charging or battery-exchange stations, I wonder whether the number of stations will continue relatively unchanged and that they just sell less fuel (and therefore order less from their supplier) than at present. I suppose some smaller garages might decide that the sales of petrol/diesel have reached such a small amount that it is no longer worth buying *any* and maintaining the pumps and the tanks. I would expect them to close and be replaced with charging stations elsewhere like they are outside supermarkets now. Some will remain but there will be far fewer if the ban does take place. Unless there is a massive increase in the number of gas fuelled cars, which is doubtful. |
#27
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26-Jul-17 2:06 PM, newshound wrote:
On 7/26/2017 11:01 AM, Nightjar wrote: .... Barring a very major change in technology, diesel will still be needed for HGVs and most petrol cars can be converted to run on LPG, which does not appear to be covered in the proposals. Hadn't realised LPG wasn't included, but on that timescale HGVs and long distance coaches could be developed to run on gas LPG is already being promoted by some manufacturers as the future for LGVs, but not everybody seems convinced. It remains to be seen whether it is as successful as they hope, or goes the way of the Leyland gas turbine truck. .... It would be far better for the government to mandate emissions levels and leave it for the car industry to decide how they achieve that. Normally I would tend to agree, but at least a ban on fossil fuels pushes everyone down the same route,... Which is not necessarily a good thing, especially if it is a dead end. -- -- Colin Bignell |
#28
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 7/26/2017 6:23 PM, Nightjar wrote:
On 26-Jul-17 2:06 PM, newshound wrote: On 7/26/2017 11:01 AM, Nightjar wrote: ... Barring a very major change in technology, diesel will still be needed for HGVs and most petrol cars can be converted to run on LPG, which does not appear to be covered in the proposals. Hadn't realised LPG wasn't included, but on that timescale HGVs and long distance coaches could be developed to run on gas LPG is already being promoted by some manufacturers as the future for LGVs, but not everybody seems convinced. It remains to be seen whether it is as successful as they hope, or goes the way of the Leyland gas turbine truck. ... It would be far better for the government to mandate emissions levels and leave it for the car industry to decide how they achieve that. Normally I would tend to agree, but at least a ban on fossil fuels pushes everyone down the same route,... Which is not necessarily a good thing, especially if it is a dead end. But it seems to me self evident that electric vehicles are *not* a dead end. My wife and I have just gone down from four to three road vehicles, and actually pretty much the most basic electric would be fine for at least 90% of our journeys. It's just the capital cost which stops me from getting one at the moment. |
#29
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 10:34:18 +0100, "dennis@home" wrote: On 26/07/2017 09:46, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote: ... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) You would buy a car when the fuel will become harder to find? As cars get scraped the garages will close due to lack of fuel sales and anyone buying the last of the fuel driven cars will end up with no fuel or expensive fuel long before the vehicle has worn out. Maybe you will be able to synthesis it from gas and electricity by then? You could just convert them to run on gas. Back in the ?1960's, during the fuel rationing, our workshop technician modified the carb on his car to take gas (I think it was an SU carb and he just drilled out the jet and made a new needle), and had a bottle of propane on the back seat with a length of hose to the carb. How he didn't blow himself up, I don't know. The main problem was the gas bottle icing up. Can't imagine anyone doing anything like that now, although I guess more professional conversion kits are available. Yes there are, all our taxis run on LPG. |
#30
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26-Jul-17 8:38 PM, newshound wrote:
.... But it seems to me self evident that electric vehicles are *not* a dead end. My wife and I have just gone down from four to three road vehicles, and actually pretty much the most basic electric would be fine for at least 90% of our journeys. It's just the capital cost which stops me from getting one at the moment. My car has a range of around 500-600 miles on a single tank, refills in a few minutes and can carry five people with luggage, or a lot of luggage for two people. I don't need all of those every trip, but I do need them from time to time and only have the one car. All electric cars are a long way from giving me what I need. If the manufacturers were given a free hand as how to achieve set pollution levels, they could, for example, choose to make hybrids that only ran on electricity in the areas where air quality is an issue; easily done with GPS. Jaguar did a concept hybrid, using miniature gas turbines to run the generators, which are far more efficient and cleaner than ICEs, however that still needed fossil fuel to run. By planning to ban new petrol and diesel cars, the government is preventing developments of that sort. -- -- Colin Bignell |
#31
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
"Nightjar" wrote in message
... On 26-Jul-17 8:38 PM, newshound wrote: ... But it seems to me self evident that electric vehicles are *not* a dead end. My wife and I have just gone down from four to three road vehicles, and actually pretty much the most basic electric would be fine for at least 90% of our journeys. It's just the capital cost which stops me from getting one at the moment. My car has a range of around 500-600 miles on a single tank, refills in a few minutes and can carry five people with luggage, or a lot of luggage for two people. I don't need all of those every trip, but I do need them from time to time and only have the one car. All electric cars are a long way from giving me what I need. If the manufacturers were given a free hand as how to achieve set pollution levels, they could, for example, choose to make hybrids that only ran on electricity in the areas where air quality is an issue; easily done with GPS. Jaguar did a concept hybrid, using miniature gas turbines to run the generators, which are far more efficient and cleaner than ICEs, however that still needed fossil fuel to run. By planning to ban new petrol and diesel cars, the government is preventing developments of that sort. As a matter of interest, are most hybrid cars propelled entirely by electric motors, with the power coming from either batteries or petrol/diesel-electric generator? Or does the engine drive the wheels *mechanically* (as in a conventional car) when you no longer need low-pollution electric propulsion. If it's the former, you have the advantages of the extra control (eg automatic acceleration profile) and of single gear ratio, with none of the discontinuities that auto/manual gearboxes cause as you change ratio and the dreaded surge of power when an auto box unexpectedly changes down as you call for more power in a situation where in a manual car I'd hold onto my present gear and simply press the accelerator a bit further - it is this thing that I find hardest to adjust to when driving an auto car: gauging the accelerator pressure to give me the acceleration that I want, neither too little in a higher gear nor too much in a lower gear. |
#32
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 27-Jul-17 10:18 AM, NY wrote:
.... As a matter of interest, are most hybrid cars propelled entirely by electric motors, with the power coming from either batteries or petrol/diesel-electric generator? Or does the engine drive the wheels *mechanically* (as in a conventional car) when you no longer need low-pollution electric propulsion. ... I think it varies. Some, such as the Jaguar I mentioned, use only electric motors to drive the wheels, while others, often described as electric assist, use either or both systems to drive the wheels. The former is mechanically simpler and probably cheaper to implement. If it's the former, you have the advantages of the extra control (eg automatic acceleration profile) and of single gear ratio, with none of the discontinuities that auto/manual gearboxes cause as you change ratio and the dreaded surge of power when an auto box unexpectedly changes down as you call for more power in a situation where in a manual car I'd hold onto my present gear and simply press the accelerator a bit further - it is this thing that I find hardest to adjust to when driving an auto car: gauging the accelerator pressure to give me the acceleration that I want, neither too little in a higher gear nor too much in a lower gear. You need to drive a better quality of auto :-) -- -- Colin Bignell |
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 27/07/17 10:18, NY wrote:
As a matter of interest, are most hybrid cars propelled entirely by electric motors, with the power coming from either batteries or petrol/diesel-electric generator? Or does the engine drive the wheels *mechanically* (as in a conventional car) when you no longer need low-pollution electric propulsion. The Prius is so ingenious and complex its hard to actually say. At a given point yoiu can regard teh leccy bits as a two way torue converter/energy harvester or as motors and generators. -- The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with what it actually is. |
#34
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 27/07/17 10:59, Nightjar wrote:
On 27-Jul-17 10:18 AM, NY wrote: ... As a matter of interest, are most hybrid cars propelled entirely by electric motors, with the power coming from either batteries or petrol/diesel-electric generator? Or does the engine drive the wheels *mechanically* (as in a conventional car) when you no longer need low-pollution electric propulsion. ... I think it varies. Some, such as the Jaguar I mentioned, use only electric motors to drive the wheels, while others, often described as electric assist, use either or both systems to drive the wheels. The former is mechanically simpler and probably cheaper to implement. If it's the former, you have the advantages of the extra control (eg automatic acceleration profile) and of single gear ratio, with none of the discontinuities that auto/manual gearboxes cause as you change ratio and the dreaded surge of power when an auto box unexpectedly changes down as you call for more power in a situation where in a manual car I'd hold onto my present gear and simply press the accelerator a bit further - it is this thing that I find hardest to adjust to when driving an auto car: gauging the accelerator pressure to give me the acceleration that I want, neither too little in a higher gear nor too much in a lower gear. You need to drive a better quality of auto :-) Agreed. I havent seen that sort of behiviour from an auto in years -- The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about. Anon. |
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 27/07/2017 09:36, Nightjar wrote:
On 26-Jul-17 8:38 PM, newshound wrote: ... But it seems to me self evident that electric vehicles are *not* a dead end. My wife and I have just gone down from four to three road vehicles, and actually pretty much the most basic electric would be fine for at least 90% of our journeys. It's just the capital cost which stops me from getting one at the moment. My car has a range of around 500-600 miles on a single tank, refills in a few minutes and can carry five people with luggage, or a lot of luggage for two people. I don't need all of those every trip, but I do need them from time to time and only have the one car. All electric cars are a long way from giving me what I need. If the manufacturers were given a free hand as how to achieve set pollution levels, they could, for example, choose to make hybrids that only ran on electricity in the areas where air quality is an issue; easily done with GPS. Jaguar did a concept hybrid, using miniature gas turbines to run the generators, which are far more efficient and cleaner than ICEs, however that still needed fossil fuel to run. By planning to ban new petrol and diesel cars, the government is preventing developments of that sort. We have seen what the manufacturers do when given emissions targets to achieve, aka VW. They can't do that with a zero target. |
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 27-Jul-17 3:16 PM, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/07/2017 09:36, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 8:38 PM, newshound wrote: ... But it seems to me self evident that electric vehicles are *not* a dead end. My wife and I have just gone down from four to three road vehicles, and actually pretty much the most basic electric would be fine for at least 90% of our journeys. It's just the capital cost which stops me from getting one at the moment. My car has a range of around 500-600 miles on a single tank, refills in a few minutes and can carry five people with luggage, or a lot of luggage for two people. I don't need all of those every trip, but I do need them from time to time and only have the one car. All electric cars are a long way from giving me what I need. If the manufacturers were given a free hand as how to achieve set pollution levels, they could, for example, choose to make hybrids that only ran on electricity in the areas where air quality is an issue; easily done with GPS. Jaguar did a concept hybrid, using miniature gas turbines to run the generators, which are far more efficient and cleaner than ICEs, however that still needed fossil fuel to run. By planning to ban new petrol and diesel cars, the government is preventing developments of that sort. We have seen what the manufacturers do when given emissions targets to achieve, aka VW. It is very unlikely that anybody would get away with something similar again. They can't do that with a zero target. However, it is only in certain urban areas, where a zero target is necessary, hence my suggestion that hybrids that use only their electric drives in those areas, is a much more viable alternative solution. Of course, post Brexit, the government won't be bound to adopt the EU air quality standards, which were the basis of the Supreme Court ruling. -- -- Colin Bignell |
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 10:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/07/2017 09:46, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote: ... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) You would buy a car when the fuel will become harder to find? As cars get scraped the garages will close due to lack of fuel sales and anyone buying the last of the fuel driven cars will end up with no fuel or expensive fuel long before the vehicle has worn out. Maybe you will be able to synthesis it from gas and electricity by then? They're not planning on banning even new petrol or diesel cars in 2040. They are only planning to ban new purely petrol or diesel ones, hybrids will still be permitted, so they'll still be requiring fuel. Unless electric vehicle technology (and the grid) come on massively or maybe the Hydrogen economy takes off, large numbers of petrol stations will still be required and fuel will still be available for older, purely petrol or diesel cars - assuming they've not been totally banned from many places. SteveW |
#38
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 27/07/2017 18:24, Nightjar wrote:
Of course, post Brexit, the government won't be bound to adopt the EU air quality standards, which were the basis of the Supreme Court ruling. They will though. |
#39
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 26/07/2017 14:06, newshound wrote:
On 7/26/2017 11:01 AM, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 10:34 AM, dennis@home wrote: On 26/07/2017 09:46, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote: ... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) You would buy a car when the fuel will become harder to find? As cars get scraped the garages will close due to lack of fuel sales and anyone buying the last of the fuel driven cars will end up with no fuel or expensive fuel long before the vehicle has worn out. Barring a very major change in technology, diesel will still be needed for HGVs and most petrol cars can be converted to run on LPG, which does not appear to be covered in the proposals. Hadn't realised LPG wasn't included, but on that timescale HGVs and long distance coaches could be developed to run on gas Maybe you will be able to synthesis it from gas and electricity by then? It would be far better for the government to mandate emissions levels and leave it for the car industry to decide how they achieve that. Normally I would tend to agree, but at least a ban on fossil fuels pushes everyone down the same route, it also eliminates the need to have, and regulate, the distribution infrastructure. Not all articles are making it clear, but it is slowly trickling out that they're not banning new fossil fueled vehicles - only ones which only operate on fossil fuels - so hybrids will still be needing petrol or diesel. SteveW |
#40
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Petrol and diesel vehicles could be banned by 2040
On 27/07/2017 19:20, Steve Walker wrote:
On 26/07/2017 10:34, dennis@home wrote: On 26/07/2017 09:46, Nightjar wrote: On 26-Jul-17 9:38 AM, Ash Burton wrote: ... It only applies to new vehicles produced after 2040, there will still be a lot of petrol/diesel engined cars on the road for many years after that. I predict a big boost in sales of new petrol and diesel cars in 2039 :-) You would buy a car when the fuel will become harder to find? As cars get scraped the garages will close due to lack of fuel sales and anyone buying the last of the fuel driven cars will end up with no fuel or expensive fuel long before the vehicle has worn out. Maybe you will be able to synthesis it from gas and electricity by then? They're not planning on banning even new petrol or diesel cars in 2040. They are only planning to ban new purely petrol or diesel ones, hybrids will still be permitted, so they'll still be requiring fuel. Possibly petrol but I doubt anyone will be making a diesel hybrid by then, not unless they clean them up. Unless electric vehicle technology (and the grid) come on massively or maybe the Hydrogen economy takes off, The hydrogen economy is a joke. |
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