On 27-Jul-17 7:26 PM, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/07/2017 18:24, Nightjar wrote:

Of course, post Brexit, the government won't be bound to adopt the EU
air quality standards, which were the basis of the Supreme Court ruling.


They will though.


You really trust a bunch of politicians not to, say, slide the
achievement dates a bit so that they can say that they are on target?

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 7/27/2017 10:59 AM, Nightjar wrote:
On 27-Jul-17 10:18 AM, NY wrote:
...
As a matter of interest, are most hybrid cars propelled entirely by
electric motors, with the power coming from either batteries or
petrol/diesel-electric generator? Or does the engine drive the wheels
*mechanically* (as in a conventional car) when you no longer need
low-pollution electric propulsion. ...

I think it varies. Some, such as the Jaguar I mentioned, use only
electric motors to drive the wheels, while others, often described as
electric assist, use either or both systems to drive the wheels. The
former is mechanically simpler and probably cheaper to implement.

If it's the former, you have the advantages of the extra control (eg
automatic acceleration profile) and of single gear ratio, with none of
the discontinuities that auto/manual gearboxes cause as you change
ratio and the dreaded surge of power when an auto box unexpectedly
changes down as you call for more power in a situation where in a
manual car I'd hold onto my present gear and simply press the
accelerator a bit further - it is this thing that I find hardest to
adjust to when driving an auto car: gauging the accelerator pressure
to give me the acceleration that I want, neither too little in a
higher gear nor too much in a lower gear.

You need to drive a better quality of auto :-)


+1. The Jazz hybrid with its CVT is superb, the only downside is that
the cabin could do with a bit more sound insulation from the engine (but
of course it is small, and based on a mid-range rather than luxury vehicle).

newshound wrote:
On 7/27/2017 10:59 AM, Nightjar wrote:
On 27-Jul-17 10:18 AM, NY wrote:
...
As a matter of interest, are most hybrid cars propelled entirely by
electric motors, with the power coming from either batteries or
petrol/diesel-electric generator? Or does the engine drive the wheels
*mechanically* (as in a conventional car) when you no longer need
low-pollution electric propulsion. ...

I think it varies. Some, such as the Jaguar I mentioned, use only
electric motors to drive the wheels, while others, often described as
electric assist, use either or both systems to drive the wheels. The
former is mechanically simpler and probably cheaper to implement.

If it's the former, you have the advantages of the extra control (eg
automatic acceleration profile) and of single gear ratio, with none
of the discontinuities that auto/manual gearboxes cause as you change
ratio and the dreaded surge of power when an auto box unexpectedly
changes down as you call for more power in a situation where in a
manual car I'd hold onto my present gear and simply press the
accelerator a bit further - it is this thing that I find hardest to
adjust to when driving an auto car: gauging the accelerator pressure
to give me the acceleration that I want, neither too little in a
higher gear nor too much in a lower gear.

You need to drive a better quality of auto :-)


+1. The Jazz hybrid with its CVT is superb, the only downside is that
the cabin could do with a bit more sound insulation from the engine (but
of course it is small, and based on a mid-range rather than luxury
vehicle).

The last Jazz auto she drove ran backwards on slopes at the slightest
provocation. has it been improved?

In article , Nightjar
writes
On 26-Jul-17 8:38 PM, newshound wrote:
...
But it seems to me self evident that electric vehicles are *not* a
dead end. My wife and I have just gone down from four to three road
vehicles, and actually pretty much the most basic electric would be
fine for at least 90% of our journeys. It's just the capital cost
which stops me from getting one at the moment.

My car has a range of around 500-600 miles on a single tank, refills in
a few minutes and can carry five people with luggage, or a lot of
luggage for two people. I don't need all of those every trip, but I do
need them from time to time and only have the one car. All electric
cars are a long way from giving me what I need.

If the manufacturers were given a free hand as how to achieve set
pollution levels, they could, for example, choose to make hybrids that
only ran on electricity in the areas where air quality is an issue;
easily done with GPS.
New BMW 5 series virtually does that already.
Jaguar did a concept hybrid, using miniature gas turbines to run the
generators, which are far more efficient and cleaner than ICEs, however
that still needed fossil fuel to run. By planning to ban new petrol and
diesel cars, the government is preventing developments of that sort.



--
bert

On 7/28/2017 5:26 PM, Capitol wrote:
newshound wrote:
On 7/27/2017 10:59 AM, Nightjar wrote:
On 27-Jul-17 10:18 AM, NY wrote:
...
As a matter of interest, are most hybrid cars propelled entirely by
electric motors, with the power coming from either batteries or
petrol/diesel-electric generator? Or does the engine drive the wheels
*mechanically* (as in a conventional car) when you no longer need
low-pollution electric propulsion. ...

I think it varies. Some, such as the Jaguar I mentioned, use only
electric motors to drive the wheels, while others, often described as
electric assist, use either or both systems to drive the wheels. The
former is mechanically simpler and probably cheaper to implement.

If it's the former, you have the advantages of the extra control (eg
automatic acceleration profile) and of single gear ratio, with none
of the discontinuities that auto/manual gearboxes cause as you change
ratio and the dreaded surge of power when an auto box unexpectedly
changes down as you call for more power in a situation where in a
manual car I'd hold onto my present gear and simply press the
accelerator a bit further - it is this thing that I find hardest to
adjust to when driving an auto car: gauging the accelerator pressure
to give me the acceleration that I want, neither too little in a
higher gear nor too much in a lower gear.

You need to drive a better quality of auto :-)


+1. The Jazz hybrid with its CVT is superb, the only downside is that
the cabin could do with a bit more sound insulation from the engine (but
of course it is small, and based on a mid-range rather than luxury
vehicle).

The last Jazz auto she drove ran backwards on slopes at the
slightest provocation. has it been improved?

I've not had that problem, although you may need to use the handbrake
for pulling away on steeper slopes.

On 29/07/17 14:50, newshound wrote:
On 7/28/2017 5:26 PM, Capitol wrote:
newshound wrote:
On 7/27/2017 10:59 AM, Nightjar wrote:
On 27-Jul-17 10:18 AM, NY wrote:
...
As a matter of interest, are most hybrid cars propelled entirely by
electric motors, with the power coming from either batteries or
petrol/diesel-electric generator? Or does the engine drive the wheels
*mechanically* (as in a conventional car) when you no longer need
low-pollution electric propulsion. ...

I think it varies. Some, such as the Jaguar I mentioned, use only
electric motors to drive the wheels, while others, often described as
electric assist, use either or both systems to drive the wheels. The
former is mechanically simpler and probably cheaper to implement.

If it's the former, you have the advantages of the extra control (eg
automatic acceleration profile) and of single gear ratio, with none
of the discontinuities that auto/manual gearboxes cause as you change
ratio and the dreaded surge of power when an auto box unexpectedly
changes down as you call for more power in a situation where in a
manual car I'd hold onto my present gear and simply press the
accelerator a bit further - it is this thing that I find hardest to
adjust to when driving an auto car: gauging the accelerator pressure
to give me the acceleration that I want, neither too little in a
higher gear nor too much in a lower gear.

You need to drive a better quality of auto :-)


+1. The Jazz hybrid with its CVT is superb, the only downside is that
the cabin could do with a bit more sound insulation from the engine (but
of course it is small, and based on a mid-range rather than luxury
vehicle).

The last Jazz auto she drove ran backwards on slopes at the
slightest provocation. has it been improved?

I've not had that problem, although you may need to use the handbrake
for pulling away on steeper slopes.

On an auto, left foot on the brake, rev engine with right and let brake off.

Never use the handbrake at all except sometimes to stop it rolling at
lights when neutral is kinder on the torque converter.


--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

On 7/26/2017 11:22 AM, Mark Allread wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:14:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

On 26/07/2017 10:57, Chris Hogg wrote:

Can't imagine anyone doing anything like that now, although I guess
more professional conversion kits are available.


You could but, the range will be somewhat less unless you can find
somewhere to fit a big gas tank.

Also there probably won't be many places to fill up.

More than you imagine.

http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg...lling-station/

or have a look at the Shell UK site for Shell's own forecourts only.


LPG conversions were very common in the Netherlands in the 1970's.

Some years ago when I was in the market for 3500 kg towing vehicles,
there were quite a lot of converted Shoguns for those who didn't fancy
the 20 mpg or so of typical Landies.

On 7/29/2017 2:59 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 29/07/17 14:50, newshound wrote:
On 7/28/2017 5:26 PM, Capitol wrote:
newshound wrote:
On 7/27/2017 10:59 AM, Nightjar wrote:
On 27-Jul-17 10:18 AM, NY wrote:
...
As a matter of interest, are most hybrid cars propelled entirely by
electric motors, with the power coming from either batteries or
petrol/diesel-electric generator? Or does the engine drive the wheels
*mechanically* (as in a conventional car) when you no longer need
low-pollution electric propulsion. ...

I think it varies. Some, such as the Jaguar I mentioned, use only
electric motors to drive the wheels, while others, often described as
electric assist, use either or both systems to drive the wheels. The
former is mechanically simpler and probably cheaper to implement.

If it's the former, you have the advantages of the extra control (eg
automatic acceleration profile) and of single gear ratio, with none
of the discontinuities that auto/manual gearboxes cause as you change
ratio and the dreaded surge of power when an auto box unexpectedly
changes down as you call for more power in a situation where in a
manual car I'd hold onto my present gear and simply press the
accelerator a bit further - it is this thing that I find hardest to
adjust to when driving an auto car: gauging the accelerator pressure
to give me the acceleration that I want, neither too little in a
higher gear nor too much in a lower gear.

You need to drive a better quality of auto :-)


+1. The Jazz hybrid with its CVT is superb, the only downside is that
the cabin could do with a bit more sound insulation from the engine
(but
of course it is small, and based on a mid-range rather than luxury
vehicle).

The last Jazz auto she drove ran backwards on slopes at the
slightest provocation. has it been improved?

I've not had that problem, although you may need to use the handbrake
for pulling away on steeper slopes.

On an auto, left foot on the brake, rev engine with right and let brake
off.

Never use the handbrake at all except sometimes to stop it rolling at
lights when neutral is kinder on the torque converter.


On slight slopes, I just go from foot brake to accelerator (the Jazz has
an auto stop on the brake provided the engine is warm, unless you are
stopped for a while with all the electrics running).

I have two manuals, one auto (plus an auto ATV). I find it easier to
avoid left foot braking and stick to the manual convention. Helps to
stop throwing passengers at the windscreen when you step on the clutch!

:-)

In article ,
newshound writes
On 7/26/2017 11:22 AM, Mark Allread wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:14:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

On 26/07/2017 10:57, Chris Hogg wrote:

Can't imagine anyone doing anything like that now, although I guess
more professional conversion kits are available.


You could but, the range will be somewhat less unless you can find
somewhere to fit a big gas tank.

Also there probably won't be many places to fill up.
More than you imagine.
http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg...lling-station/
or have a look at the Shell UK site for Shell's own forecourts only.


LPG conversions were very common in the Netherlands in the 1970's.

So they were here in the 90s until the government reversed their policy
on fuel duty.
Some years ago when I was in the market for 3500 kg towing vehicles,
there were quite a lot of converted Shoguns for those who didn't fancy
the 20 mpg or so of typical Landies.
Had V8 auto defender on LPG - beautiful. Did about 11mpg running around
town.
--
bert