On 07/09/2016 08:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 23:43, newshound wrote:
On 9/6/2016 7:10 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/09/16 14:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 13:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/09/16 12:49, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 12:15, bm wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 05/09/16 21:31, bm wrote:
Looks like another bunch of overpaid, thick-skinned, don't give a
****
*******.
I'm just amazed they let in the BBC.



Care to summarise?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37255980



Thanks.

I am not surprised and yes, it is worrying. It's just has that
appallingly "British Leyland half-arsed" feel to it.

Of course, The BBC carefully crafted it to give that impression.



Or have they?

The problem is, I cannot just nonce into Sellafield to check (well,
not
past the Visitor Centre and coach tour (do they still do that?).

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS...y-0609165.html





Totally refute the whole program. The Beeb did a hatchet job basically.
I hope they sue em.


They have not really refuted the BBC's claims. They just issued a
blanket "it's ********" statement. Which is exactly what a company who's
been caught out would do.

Of course, the BBC would also probably put a political spin on this.

So it's hard to know who's right.

Is it? Don't you believe the ONR?

In a separate statement, the UK's Office for Nuclear Regulation (ONR)
said, "A considerable amount of work is still required to clean up out
of date facilities at Sellafield and decommission their older plants.
But this does not mean they pose an immediate safety risk to workers or
the public."
The ONR said it has seen "significant progress" at Sellafield in recent
years. It added, "If we considered any plant to be unsafe we would shut
it down or demand action to reduce that risk and return it to safety."

In that case, I am happy - and stuff the BBC.


IIRC the BBC have killed more people making TV programmes than the
nuclear industry has.
Maybe TV should go?

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
IIRC the BBC have killed more people making TV programmes than the
nuclear industry has.

Care to give details? Haven't had a decent laugh today yet.

Maybe TV should go?

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

dennis@home wrote:
On 07/09/2016 08:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 23:43, newshound wrote:
On 9/6/2016 7:10 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/09/16 14:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 13:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/09/16 12:49, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 12:15, bm wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 05/09/16 21:31, bm wrote:
Looks like another bunch of overpaid, thick-skinned, don't
give a
****
*******.
I'm just amazed they let in the BBC.



Care to summarise?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37255980



Thanks.

I am not surprised and yes, it is worrying. It's just has that
appallingly "British Leyland half-arsed" feel to it.

Of course, The BBC carefully crafted it to give that impression.



Or have they?

The problem is, I cannot just nonce into Sellafield to check (well,
not
past the Visitor Centre and coach tour (do they still do that?).

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS...y-0609165.html






Totally refute the whole program. The Beeb did a hatchet job
basically.
I hope they sue em.


They have not really refuted the BBC's claims. They just issued a
blanket "it's ********" statement. Which is exactly what a company
who's
been caught out would do.

Of course, the BBC would also probably put a political spin on this.

So it's hard to know who's right.

Is it? Don't you believe the ONR?

In a separate statement, the UK's Office for Nuclear Regulation (ONR)
said, "A considerable amount of work is still required to clean up out
of date facilities at Sellafield and decommission their older plants.
But this does not mean they pose an immediate safety risk to workers or
the public."
The ONR said it has seen "significant progress" at Sellafield in recent
years. It added, "If we considered any plant to be unsafe we would shut
it down or demand action to reduce that risk and return it to safety."

In that case, I am happy - and stuff the BBC.


IIRC the BBC have killed more people making TV programmes than the
nuclear industry has.
Maybe TV should go?

I remember the Noel Edmonds thing (I assume that was BBC) - are there
any others? Or do you mean things like revealing military operational
information? I think I read they did something like that in the Falklands.

En el artículo , The Natural Philosopher
escribió:

Just a chemical explosion

Yes. That's an important distinction, although trivialising it with the
word 'just' is unwarranted.

And only a level 6. When Fukushima - level 7 doesn't kill ANYBODY who
cares about a level 6?

The people living there who were poisoned by radioactivity might
disagree with you. 10,000 people were evacuated and resettled.

quote

There were no immediate casualties as a result of the explosion, but it
released an estimated 20 MCi (800 PBq) of radioactivity. Most of this
contamination settled out near the site of the accident and contributed
to the pollution of the Techa River, but a plume containing 2 MCi (80
PBq) of radionuclides spread out over hundreds of kilometers. Previously
contaminated areas within the affected area include the Techa river
which had previously received 2.75 MCi (100 PBq) of deliberately dumped
waste, and Lake Karachay which had received 120 MCi (4,000 PBq)

In the next 10 to 11 hours, the radioactive cloud moved towards the
north-east, reaching 300-350 kilometers from the accident. The fallout
of the cloud resulted in a long-term contamination of an area of more
than 800 to 20,000 square kilometers (depending on what contamination
level is considered significant), primarily with caesium-137 and
strontium-90.This area is usually referred to as the East-Ural
Radioactive Trace (EURT)

/q

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tural-Spur.png

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 07/09/16 12:58, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , The Natural Philosopher
escribió:

Just a chemical explosion

Yes. That's an important distinction, although trivialising it with the
word 'just' is unwarranted.

And only a level 6. When Fukushima - level 7 doesn't kill ANYBODY who
cares about a level 6?

The people living there who were poisoned by radioactivity might
disagree with you. 10,000 people were evacuated and resettled.

Oh dear. Radioactivity is not a 'poison'


And resettlement does not imply anyone was in danger.


WE know from the data that anyone living on Dartmoor is getting 10 times
as much radiation as the evacuation zone in Fukushima.

quote

There were no immediate casualties as a result of the explosion, but it
released an estimated 20 MCi (800 PBq) of radioactivity. Most of this
contamination settled out near the site of the accident and contributed
to the pollution of the Techa River, but a plume containing 2 MCi (80
PBq) of radionuclides spread out over hundreds of kilometers. Previously
contaminated areas within the affected area include the Techa river
which had previously received 2.75 MCi (100 PBq) of deliberately dumped
waste, and Lake Karachay which had received 120 MCi (4,000 PBq)

In the next 10 to 11 hours, the radioactive cloud moved towards the
north-east, reaching 300-350 kilometers from the accident. The fallout
of the cloud resulted in a long-term contamination of an area of more
than 800 to 20,000 square kilometers (depending on what contamination
level is considered significant), primarily with caesium-137 and
strontium-90.This area is usually referred to as the East-Ural
Radioactive Trace (EURT)

/q

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tural-Spur.png



--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 07/09/16 13:25, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 07/09/16 10:38, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Tim
Streater escribió:

I'm talking about a pond that went
critical and perhaps even exploded - sometime in the 50s IIRC.

1957. Mayak, in Russia. Storage tank exploded when the cooling system
failed and the Ivans didn't notice, decay heat dried out the waste which
exploded, blowing the 160-ton concrete lid off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyshtym_disaster

Ah, yes. I'd only remembered part of it.

So not a nuclear explosion and not a criticality.

Just a chemical explosion and some rather hot fuel rods.

True but I wouldn't have wanted to be there. And I imagine that any
such facility might have similar issues - you have to keep a sharp eye
on any mixtures that might be interesting from a chemical perspective
too.


Everyone knows you don't let spent fuel ponds dry out.

That's why they don't normally put lids on them,

Its kinda easy to see..



--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

On 9/7/2016 10:06 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 07/09/16 09:41, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:

As usual, the program kept saying it's the worst place in the world,
but there have been some nasty issues with the storage facilities at
Hanford in the USA, and by all accounts some of the Russian sites are
even worse.

IIRC, one of the Russian sites was so bad that serious fission was
going on.

AS opposed to humorous fission?

The whole point of storing spent fuel rods in ponds is because fission
is going on.

Yes I know that Oh Witty One. I'm talking about a pond that went
critical and perhaps even exploded - sometime in the 50s IIRC.

ISTR that the current view is that Kyshtym was a chemical explosion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyshtym_disaster

There was a criticality excursion in Sellafield a good many years ago,
but from the human viewpoint safely behind a lot of shielding. In
contrast to the extraordinary incompetence at Tokaimura in 1999, with
two fatalities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaim...clear_accident

On 9/7/2016 7:40 AM, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 September 2016 17:02:33 UTC+1, F wrote:
On 05/09/2016 21:31, bm wrote:
Looks like another bunch of overpaid, thick-skinned, don't give a ****
*******.
I'm just amazed they let in the BBC.

After the over-the-top, over-dramatic presentation I wouldn't blame them.

--
F

How do YUO know it's over the top?


Well I have worked there, and *I* consider it OTT.

A few years ago I went around one of their facilities which was being
modified as part of a project which I had kicked off from another part
of the industry (one of their clients). This was when the plant
operators were showing the ONR around, to explain what they were doing,
and why. Even though it was associated with a significant improvement in
conditions as more modern technology was introduced, the ONR were very
searching in their scrutiny.

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 15:57:15 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 9/7/2016 7:40 AM, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 September 2016 17:02:33 UTC+1, F wrote:
On 05/09/2016 21:31, bm wrote:
Looks like another bunch of overpaid, thick-skinned, don't give a ****
*******.
I'm just amazed they let in the BBC.

After the over-the-top, over-dramatic presentation I wouldn't blame them.

--
F

How do YUO know it's over the top?


Well I have worked there, and *I* consider it OTT.


Doing what?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/16 08:18, Tim Watts wrote:

In that case, I am happy - and stuff the BBC.


In my lifetime, I have never been more aware and more scared, frankly,
of the level of propaganda being thrown at the British public. It is
almost war status in its blatant urgency.




That's just you turning into a bitter old fart.

On 07/09/16 20:49, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/16 08:18, Tim Watts wrote:

In that case, I am happy - and stuff the BBC.


In my lifetime, I have never been more aware and more scared, frankly,
of the level of propaganda being thrown at the British public. It is
almost war status in its blatant urgency.




That's just you turning into a bitter old fart.


I am not bitter.

Just scared, as I said. Scared for people of your generation and later.
I am old enough to remember the after effects of Nazism, and what
Totalitarianism did to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. And its all
coming back.

All the same political intolerance, camouflaged as political tolerance.
All the same narrow elitisms, in the guise of anti-elitism.

All supported by big business, against the little people. All called
socialism, pretending to be for the little people.

How many years have socialists, so called, been in power? Well long
enough to have sorted out all the issues if they wanted to, and it were
possible. They haven't. Conclusion? They can't or they won't.

Why? Because they want a disgruntled bitter population like Plow****,
because that's who votes for them.

Government - especially of the Left - has ceased to be about solving
problems, and its geared only to create the need for politicians and
bureaucrats.

That's why they were useless with the banking crash, the tech crash, and
now the migration crisis. They aren't there to address those sorts of
issues. They are there to perpetuate a system of graft and corruption,
and privilege.


IN my life, the only politician who has done what they said they would,
and resigned having achieved it, is Nigel Farage.

Even Thatcher hung in long after the Unions were put back in their cages.

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/16 20:49, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/16 08:18, Tim Watts wrote:

In that case, I am happy - and stuff the BBC.


In my lifetime, I have never been more aware and more scared, frankly,
of the level of propaganda being thrown at the British public. It is
almost war status in its blatant urgency.




That's just you turning into a bitter old fart.


I am not bitter.

Just scared, as I said. Scared for people of your generation and later.
I am old enough to remember the after effects of Nazism, and what
Totalitarianism did to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. And its all
coming back.

Not in the UK.

All the same political intolerance, camouflaged as political tolerance.
All the same narrow elitisms, in the guise of anti-elitism.

All supported by big business, against the little people. All called
socialism, pretending to be for the little people.

How many years have socialists, so called, been in power? Well long
enough to have sorted out all the issues if they wanted to, and it were
possible. They haven't. Conclusion? They can't or they won't.

Why? Because they want a disgruntled bitter population like Plow****,
because that's who votes for them.

Government - especially of the Left - has ceased to be about solving
problems, and its geared only to create the need for politicians and
bureaucrats.

That's why they were useless with the banking crash, the tech crash, and
now the migration crisis. They aren't there to address those sorts of
issues. They are there to perpetuate a system of graft and corruption,
and privilege.


IN my life, the only politician who has done what they said they would,
and resigned having achieved it, is Nigel Farage.

Even Thatcher hung in long after the Unions were put back in their cages.


Pathetically bitter and twisted.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/16 20:49, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/16 08:18, Tim Watts wrote:

In that case, I am happy - and stuff the BBC.


In my lifetime, I have never been more aware and more scared, frankly,
of the level of propaganda being thrown at the British public. It is
almost war status in its blatant urgency.




That's just you turning into a bitter old fart.


I am not bitter.

Just scared, as I said. Scared for people of your generation and later.
I am old enough to remember the after effects of Nazism, and what
Totalitarianism did to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. And its all
coming back.

All the same political intolerance, camouflaged as political tolerance.
All the same narrow elitisms, in the guise of anti-elitism.

All supported by big business, against the little people. All called
socialism, pretending to be for the little people.

How many years have socialists, so called, been in power? Well long
enough to have sorted out all the issues if they wanted to, and it were
possible. They haven't. Conclusion? They can't or they won't.

Why? Because they want a disgruntled bitter population like Plow****,
because that's who votes for them.

Government - especially of the Left - has ceased to be about solving
problems,

That isn't correct with the NHS alone.

and its geared only to create the need for politicians and
bureaucrats.

That's why they were useless with the banking crash,

They did in fact do something useful and much more effective about that
much more quickly than they did in the Great Depression.

the tech crash, and
now the migration crisis.

They did allow the voters to vote to leave the EU and that will make a big
difference to that.

They aren't there to address those sorts of
issues. They are there to perpetuate a system of graft and corruption,
and privilege.

They have done the exact opposite by leaving the EU.

IN my life, the only politician who has done what they said they would,
and resigned having achieved it, is Nigel Farage.

Cameron has just done the same thing.

Even Thatcher hung in long after the Unions were put back in their cages.

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 23:27:20 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am not bitter.

Just scared, as I said. Scared for people of your generation and later.
I am old enough to remember the after effects of Nazism, and what
Totalitarianism did to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. And its all
coming back.

+1. What's different now is the complete blindness of most of the population to it happening. The lessons from those eras are completely forgotten.


NT

wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

I am not bitter.

Just scared, as I said. Scared for people of your generation and later.
I am old enough to remember the after effects of Nazism, and what
Totalitarianism did to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. And its all
coming back.

+1. What's different now is the complete blindness
of most of the population to it happening.

Nothing even remotely like that is happening in Britain today.

Or in Germany today either.

The lessons from those eras are completely forgotten.

BULL****. In spades with all of Germany, Spain, Italy and France.

On 08/09/16 00:43, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/16 20:49, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/16 08:18, Tim Watts wrote:

In that case, I am happy - and stuff the BBC.


In my lifetime, I have never been more aware and more scared, frankly,
of the level of propaganda being thrown at the British public. It is
almost war status in its blatant urgency.




That's just you turning into a bitter old fart.


I am not bitter.

Just scared, as I said. Scared for people of your generation and later.
I am old enough to remember the after effects of Nazism, and what
Totalitarianism did to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. And its all
coming back.

Not in the UK.

Yes in the UK.



All the same political intolerance, camouflaged as political tolerance.
All the same narrow elitisms, in the guise of anti-elitism.

All supported by big business, against the little people. All called
socialism, pretending to be for the little people.

How many years have socialists, so called, been in power? Well long
enough to have sorted out all the issues if they wanted to, and it were
possible. They haven't. Conclusion? They can't or they won't.

Why? Because they want a disgruntled bitter population like Plow****,
because that's who votes for them.

Government - especially of the Left - has ceased to be about solving
problems, and its geared only to create the need for politicians and
bureaucrats.

That's why they were useless with the banking crash, the tech crash, and
now the migration crisis. They aren't there to address those sorts of
issues. They are there to perpetuate a system of graft and corruption,
and privilege.


IN my life, the only politician who has done what they said they would,
and resigned having achieved it, is Nigel Farage.

Even Thatcher hung in long after the Unions were put back in their cages.


Pathetically bitter and twisted.


??? well it shows you just throw lines in at random.

Cynical? yes. Bitter. No. I accept that's the way it is.




--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 08/09/16 07:42, wrote:
On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 23:27:20 UTC+1, The Natural
Philosopher wrote:

I am not bitter.

Just scared, as I said. Scared for people of your generation and
later. I am old enough to remember the after effects of Nazism, and
what Totalitarianism did to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe.
And its all coming back.

+1. What's different now is the complete blindness of most of the
population to it happening. The lessons from those eras are
completely forgotten.



NO, its worse than that. My nephew, Green, animal rights, fox hunt
saboteur, vegan, Buddhist, suffers intense feelings of GUILT because his
German grandparents were Nazis.

And is *ashamed* that his British families countrymen voted Brexit.

He supports diversity and migration, but lives in a rich white suburb of
London, and has no black or Asian friends.


He says he cant understand the Nazis. I tell him its just like animal
rights with guns, that's all. And he is being manipulated in identical
ways by identical propaganda.

I don't think he likes me any more.

He asked me if I had any advice for a young man of his age...

"learn to shoot".

"I cant believe you just said that".





NT



--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/09/16 07:42, wrote:
On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 23:27:20 UTC+1, The Natural
Philosopher wrote:

I am not bitter.

Just scared, as I said. Scared for people of your generation and
later. I am old enough to remember the after effects of Nazism, and
what Totalitarianism did to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe.
And its all coming back.

+1. What's different now is the complete blindness of most of the
population to it happening. The lessons from those eras are
completely forgotten.



NO, its worse than that. My nephew, Green, animal rights, fox hunt
saboteur, vegan, Buddhist, suffers intense feelings of GUILT because his
German grandparents were Nazis.

And is *ashamed* that his British families countrymen voted Brexit.

He supports diversity and migration, but lives in a rich white suburb of
London, and has no black or Asian friends.


He says he cant understand the Nazis. I tell him its just like animal
rights with guns, that's all. And he is being manipulated in identical
ways by identical propaganda.

I don't think he likes me any more.

He asked me if I had any advice for a young man of his age...

"learn to shoot".

well I did. With an SMLE 0.303

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

En el artículo , The Natural Philosopher
escribió:

??? well it shows you just throw lines in at random.

You're talking to another Wodney sockpuppet, you know.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 07/09/2016 09:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The whole point of storing spent fuel rods in ponds is because fission
is going on.

Rubbish.
The stuff is stored in ponds while decay is going on.
If fission was going on the rods would never decay to the point where
they were safe to process.

While a few meters of water is enough to stop the decay radiation it
isn't going to stop the neutrons from killing the workers.

I suggest you look at the difference between decay and fission before
harry points it out.

On 07/09/2016 10:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/16 10:06, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 07/09/16 09:41, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:

As usual, the program kept saying it's the worst place in the world,
but there have been some nasty issues with the storage facilities at
Hanford in the USA, and by all accounts some of the Russian sites are
even worse.

IIRC, one of the Russian sites was so bad that serious fission was
going on.

AS opposed to humorous fission?

The whole point of storing spent fuel rods in ponds is because fission
is going on.

Yes I know that Oh Witty One. I'm talking about a pond that went
critical and perhaps even exploded - sometime in the 50s IIRC.

Hard to see how a pond can explode. There is nothing to confine the
pressure.

If you shove a few hundred megajoules into the pond all at once it will
explode.


And criticality is nothing special. It just means the thing doesn't
start to decay in radioactive terms till the fuel runs out.




More rubbish, the fission products start to decay as soon as they are
produced, they don't wait until someone hits the off switch and drops
the control rods.

On 08/09/16 10:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 07/09/2016 09:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The whole point of storing spent fuel rods in ponds is because fission
is going on.

Rubbish.
The stuff is stored in ponds while decay is going on.
If fission was going on the rods would never decay to the point where
they were safe to process.

While a few meters of water is enough to stop the decay radiation it
isn't going to stop the neutrons from killing the workers.

I suggest you look at the difference between decay and fission before
harry points it out.



TNP is quite correct - it's spontaneous fission:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_fission

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

No, its worse than that. My nephew, Green, animal rights, fox hunt
saboteur, vegan, Buddhist, suffers intense feelings of GUILT because
his German grandparents were Nazis.

All these people brain wash each other. No different really from those
American cult groups that commit suicide.

More likely the madness simply runs in the family.

He supports diversity and migration, but lives in a rich white suburb
of London, and has no black or Asian friends.

And he can't, I suppose, see the hypocrisy and irony in that.

I'd be interested to know just where you'd find a 'rich white suburb' in
London. Mainly white, possibly. Oh - an oddball will likely stick to his
own group as friends.

But only Turnip would find it unusual that one could live in peace with
neighbours of all colours without them actually being friends. Because to
many a friend is someone special - not just an acquaintance as Facebook
etc seems to think, and to collect the maximum number possible.

--
*When you've seen one shopping centre you've seen a mall*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/09/16 09:42, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

No, its worse than that. My nephew, Green, animal rights, fox hunt
saboteur, vegan, Buddhist, suffers intense feelings of GUILT because
his German grandparents were Nazis.

All these people brain wash each other. No different really from those
American cult groups that commit suicide.

He supports diversity and migration, but lives in a rich white suburb
of London, and has no black or Asian friends.

And he can't, I suppose, see the hypocrisy and irony in that.

He says he cant understand the Nazis. I tell him its just like animal
rights with guns, that's all. And he is being manipulated in identical
ways by identical propaganda.

Has he read any history books? He might understand them better if he
did (note for the dimwits he understanding does not imply approval).


Raised in Germany, he has read all the politically correct history
books, and has even had a whole course devoted to Nazism. He thinks he
knows far more about it than I do.

He asked me if I had any advice for a young man of his age...

"learn to shoot".

"I cant believe you just said that".

Hmmm. No historical perspective.

More 'If I behave really really nicely*, as an apology for being a
German, the world will just become a nicer place and nothing bad will
ever happen to me'....




*except of course to people who eat meat, have different political
opinions, ride horses in red coats with packs of hounds...and so on...,

--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On 08/09/16 10:07, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , The Natural Philosopher
escribió:

??? well it shows you just throw lines in at random.

You're talking to another Wodney sockpuppet, you know.

I realised that just after I wrote.


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 08/09/16 10:19, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/09/16 10:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 07/09/2016 09:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The whole point of storing spent fuel rods in ponds is because fission
is going on.

Rubbish.
The stuff is stored in ponds while decay is going on.
If fission was going on the rods would never decay to the point where
they were safe to process.

While a few meters of water is enough to stop the decay radiation it
isn't going to stop the neutrons from killing the workers.

I suggest you look at the difference between decay and fission before
harry points it out.



TNP is quite correct - it's spontaneous fission:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_fission

Oh was that dennis? Wrong about everything as usual.

"Neutron radiation consists of a free neutron, usually emitted as a
result of spontaneous or induced nuclear fission. Able to travel
hundreds or even thousands of meters in air, they are however able to be
effectively stopped if blocked by a hydrogen-rich material, such as
concrete or water."

https://www.mirion.com/introduction-...ing-radiation/


The specific shield for neutrons is of course water, and a few meters is
precisely enough to stop them.

Rods are stored in ponds precisely because it stops the neutrons.
Deuterium is formed.

And of course, neutrons are in fact part of the 'decay radiation'.

Which is of course is from the spontaneous fission of radioactive elements.

So one can safely say that dennis' post contained not one grain of
factual information, and was muddled and ignorant throughout.

Sight. That's what a lack of grammar school education gets you.



--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 08/09/16 12:01, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 08/09/16 09:42, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

He supports diversity and migration, but lives in a rich white suburb
of London, and has no black or Asian friends.

And he can't, I suppose, see the hypocrisy and irony in that.

He says he cant understand the Nazis. I tell him its just like animal
rights with guns, that's all. And he is being manipulated in identical
ways by identical propaganda.

Has he read any history books? He might understand them better if he
did (note for the dimwits he understanding does not imply approval).

Raised in Germany, he has read all the politically correct history
books, and has even had a whole course devoted to Nazism. He thinks he
knows far more about it than I do.

And yet after all that, he "can't understand the Nazis". Odd, really.
What does he think led to their rise, then?


Well exactly.

Are Germans just intrinsically evil?

He wants an excuse, to make sure he isn't. I try to tell him 'we would
all be guards at Auschwitz, if the alternative was to be an inmate'



--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 08/09/16 12:06, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

No, its worse than that. My nephew, Green, animal rights, fox hunt
saboteur, vegan, Buddhist, suffers intense feelings of GUILT because
his German grandparents were Nazis.

All these people brain wash each other. No different really from those
American cult groups that commit suicide.

More likely the madness simply runs in the family.

I agree you'd have to be mad to be "Green, animal rights, fox hunt
saboteur, vegan". But all groups of obsessed nutters brain wash each
other. You keep saying so yourself.

He supports diversity and migration, but lives in a rich white suburb
of London, and has no black or Asian friends.

And he can't, I suppose, see the hypocrisy and irony in that.

I'd be interested to know just where you'd find a 'rich white suburb' in
London. Mainly white, possibly. Oh - an oddball will likely stick to his
own group as friends.


But he isn't an oddball. He lives in Islington of course, and Asians are
the people who cook the curries. There are literally millions like him
in the UK. More or less.

His mother in law is a BBC producer (ex).

But only Turnip would find it unusual that one could live in peace with
neighbours of all colours without them actually being friends.


Good grief. What an innate racist you are to be sure.


But there aren't neighbours of all colours. So I conclude that the
nephew is the usual lefty hypocrite.

Because to many a friend is someone special - not just an
acquaintance as Facebook etc seems to think, and to collect
the maximum number possible.

Not sure what Facebook (whatever that may be) has to do with anything.
Or are you wandering off at random onto another rant. Time for your
meds, perhaps?

Indeed....



--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

On Tuesday, 6 September 2016 14:26:29 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:


I think one of the worst things that Cameron did pre-Brexit was to force
Whittingdale to guarantee the BBC another decade of unaccountability.

Is that why they are working hard to ban the net?

On Tuesday, 6 September 2016 16:48:41 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
You know what's going down. New government, very skeptical of
renewable energy and climate change, so let's put the boot into
nuclear and fracking so they have no other options.


I think one of the worst things that Cameron did pre-Brexit was to
force Whittingdale to guarantee the BBC another decade of
unaccountability.

Absolutely. They should stick to 'Strictly' and other such bits of
froth. Except of course ITV and that pal of the Tories, Murdoch, don't
want that competition either.


The likes of 'Strictly' etc. is why I stopped paying the licence fee in
the first place :-) And since I'm not prepared to pay for the BBC's
nonsense, I'm also not allowed to watch ITV anyway. But I don't miss
any of it - I can't stand adverts.

If you don't watch TV why moan about any of it? Especially commenting on

Like he did you mean?

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 04:30:21 UTC+1, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

It'll be all over the torrent sites seconds after broadcast. Looking
forward to seeing what it's like
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

I have never used a torrent any tips for a steal it myselfer?
Also I am interested getting hold of TinyXP any thoughts on that?

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 07:40:35 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 September 2016 17:02:33 UTC+1, F wrote:
On 05/09/2016 21:31, bm wrote:
Looks like another bunch of overpaid, thick-skinned, don't give a ****
*******.
I'm just amazed they let in the BBC.

After the over-the-top, over-dramatic presentation I wouldn't blame them.

--
F

How do YoU know it's over the top?

It says so in the article:

"Building B41 still houses the aluminium cladding for the uranium fuel rods of Piles 1 and 2, and is modelled on a grain silo, with waste tipped in at the top and argon gas added to prevent fires."

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 12:47:19 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 07/09/2016 08:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 23:43, newshound wrote:
On 9/6/2016 7:10 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/09/16 14:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 13:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/09/16 12:49, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/09/16 12:15, bm wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 05/09/16 21:31, bm wrote:
Looks like another bunch of overpaid, thick-skinned, don't
give a
****
*******.
I'm just amazed they let in the BBC.



Care to summarise?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37255980



Thanks.

I am not surprised and yes, it is worrying. It's just has that
appallingly "British Leyland half-arsed" feel to it.

Of course, The BBC carefully crafted it to give that impression.



Or have they?

The problem is, I cannot just nonce into Sellafield to check (well,
not
past the Visitor Centre and coach tour (do they still do that?).

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS...y-0609165.html






Totally refute the whole program. The Beeb did a hatchet job
basically.
I hope they sue em.


They have not really refuted the BBC's claims. They just issued a
blanket "it's ********" statement. Which is exactly what a company
who's
been caught out would do.

Of course, the BBC would also probably put a political spin on this.

So it's hard to know who's right.

Is it? Don't you believe the ONR?

In a separate statement, the UK's Office for Nuclear Regulation (ONR)
said, "A considerable amount of work is still required to clean up out
of date facilities at Sellafield and decommission their older plants.
But this does not mean they pose an immediate safety risk to workers or
the public."
The ONR said it has seen "significant progress" at Sellafield in recent
years. It added, "If we considered any plant to be unsafe we would shut
it down or demand action to reduce that risk and return it to safety."

In that case, I am happy - and stuff the BBC.


IIRC the BBC have killed more people making TV programmes than the
nuclear industry has.
Maybe TV should go?

I remember the Noel Edmonds thing (I assume that was BBC) - are there
any others? Or do you mean things like revealing military operational
information? I think I read they did something like that in the Falklands.

Wasn't that about the time of Thatcher's revenge for the Miners' Strike I?

Staged crowd uncontrol (police informant/undercover agent-provocateurs were placed in the crowds to stir up emotions and leave victims vulnerable to both forms of charges, all done in full view of cameras of course) and negative sound-bites were just coming out as the internet was being discovered.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

No, its worse than that. My nephew, Green, animal rights, fox hunt
saboteur, vegan, Buddhist, suffers intense feelings of GUILT because
his German grandparents were Nazis.

All these people brain wash each other. No different really from those
American cult groups that commit suicide.

More likely the madness simply runs in the family.

I agree you'd have to be mad to be "Green, animal rights, fox hunt
saboteur, vegan". But all groups of obsessed nutters brain wash each
other. You keep saying so yourself.

Mainly the nuclear nutters here, though. And the gun lovers. Far more
dangerous than mere eccentrics.

He supports diversity and migration, but lives in a rich white suburb
of London, and has no black or Asian friends.

And he can't, I suppose, see the hypocrisy and irony in that.

I'd be interested to know just where you'd find a 'rich white suburb' in
London. Mainly white, possibly. Oh - an oddball will likely stick to his
own group as friends.

But only Turnip would find it unusual that one could live in peace with
neighbours of all colours without them actually being friends.

But there aren't neighbours of all colours. So I conclude that the
nephew is the usual lefty hypocrite.

I'd ask again just where he'd find an all white suburb in London. They
don't exist.

Because to many a friend is someone special - not just an
acquaintance as Facebook etc seems to think, and to collect
the maximum number possible.

Not sure what Facebook (whatever that may be) has to do with anything.
Or are you wandering off at random onto another rant. Time for your
meds, perhaps?

That you don't understand the reference just shows how out of touch you
are.

--
*PMS jokes aren't funny; period.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 9/7/2016 4:34 PM, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 15:57:15 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 9/7/2016 7:40 AM, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 September 2016 17:02:33 UTC+1, F wrote:
On 05/09/2016 21:31, bm wrote:
Looks like another bunch of overpaid, thick-skinned, don't give a ****
*******.
I'm just amazed they let in the BBC.

After the over-the-top, over-dramatic presentation I wouldn't blame them.

--
F

How do YUO know it's over the top?


Well I have worked there, and *I* consider it OTT.


Doing what?

Trying to find out if WAGR had any information relevent to specific CAGR
problems. Tapping their experience with lubricants. Advising them on
metrology. Advising them on paint. Coming up with a complete redesign
for the Calder Hall fuel route, to reduce the load it was putting on FHP.

En el artículo , The Natural Philosopher
escribió:

Oh dear. Radioactivity is not a 'poison'

You do talk tripe at times. Most of the time, actually.

In other words, you have no argument so you want to split hairs by
arguing with my choice of words.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome

by even your swivel-eyed standards, that's a new low.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 08/09/2016 10:19, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/09/16 10:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 07/09/2016 09:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The whole point of storing spent fuel rods in ponds is because fission
is going on.

Rubbish.
The stuff is stored in ponds while decay is going on.
If fission was going on the rods would never decay to the point where
they were safe to process.

While a few meters of water is enough to stop the decay radiation it
isn't going to stop the neutrons from killing the workers.

I suggest you look at the difference between decay and fission before
harry points it out.



TNP is quite correct - it's spontaneous fission:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_fission

You have looked at the rate that it occurs?

~10^^-9 fissions per decay.

It is not what is happening.

On 08/09/2016 11:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/09/16 10:19, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/09/16 10:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 07/09/2016 09:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The whole point of storing spent fuel rods in ponds is because fission
is going on.

Rubbish.
The stuff is stored in ponds while decay is going on.
If fission was going on the rods would never decay to the point where
they were safe to process.

While a few meters of water is enough to stop the decay radiation it
isn't going to stop the neutrons from killing the workers.

I suggest you look at the difference between decay and fission before
harry points it out.



TNP is quite correct - it's spontaneous fission:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_fission

Oh was that dennis? Wrong about everything as usual.

"Neutron radiation consists of a free neutron, usually emitted as a
result of spontaneous or induced nuclear fission. Able to travel
hundreds or even thousands of meters in air, they are however able to be
effectively stopped if blocked by a hydrogen-rich material, such as
concrete or water."

https://www.mirion.com/introduction-...ing-radiation/



The specific shield for neutrons is of course water, and a few meters is
precisely enough to stop them.

But in doing so it emits a ~2 MeV gamma ray which is pretty hard to stop.

Its somewhat more energetic than the gamma rays emitted by the decay
process.

On Thursday, 8 September 2016 08:39:54 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

BULL****. In spades

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/09/16 12:01, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 08/09/16 09:42, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

He supports diversity and migration, but lives in a rich white suburb
of London, and has no black or Asian friends.

And he can't, I suppose, see the hypocrisy and irony in that.

He says he cant understand the Nazis. I tell him its just like animal
rights with guns, that's all. And he is being manipulated in identical
ways by identical propaganda.

Has he read any history books? He might understand them better if he
did (note for the dimwits he understanding does not imply approval).

Raised in Germany, he has read all the politically correct history
books, and has even had a whole course devoted to Nazism. He thinks he
knows far more about it than I do.

And yet after all that, he "can't understand the Nazis". Odd, really.
What does he think led to their rise, then?


Well exactly.

Are Germans just intrinsically evil?

He wants an excuse, to make sure he isn't. I try to tell him 'we would
all be guards at Auschwitz, if the alternative was to be an inmate'




Not everyone would and it is never that binary. And quite a few guards
behaved themselves too.