"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 15/06/16 12:13, Bosco Green wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 15/06/16 11:32, Bosco Green wrote:

Bet they are whatever the result of the referendum is, just like with
the
Scottish referendum. Very few of the voters give a damn about those
issues.

That's not my experience at all.

You can't see enough of the voters to matter.

Neither can you.

I wasnt the one saying anything about my personal experience of voters.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , michael
adams wrote:

In fact the "cheap point" is evidence of a cognitive bias whereby you
automatically associate bad numbers with the 1970's when Labour were
in power, as you did in responding to Capitol.

He was talking about his recollection of the pound going low. I
responded that I'd remembered it going lower. That's all. I made no
comment, express or implied, relating to the date or who was in power
at the time.

But neither did you seek to correct his claim that it went to $1.2 to
the pound in the 1970's, did you ? The very fact that you appended
your own observation to his, without comment as you say, simply
lent credence to his claim that it went to $1.2 in the 1970's.

a) Regardless of your own recollection, and its timing, the fact that
you were willing to take his totally erroneous recollection of a
70's low on trust, is the evidence of the cognitive bias I was
referring to.

quote


"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .

In article , Capitol

I can recall $1.2 to the pound in the 1970s. As an importer it was an interesting
experience.

It went to $1.05 at its worst. I remember as I was in the U Sat the
time and the Yanks were commenting on it.

/quote

If you think I did, then you're nodding off.

b) See (a) above


I can only ask you again a question I asked you before. In the course
of your work, were you ever subject to strong magnetic fields ?

In what way is this relevant to anything?

See (b) above


michael adams

....

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

Nothing except kick out the worst of those who get convicted
of a serious crime.

Kick them out where ? The problem is the various refugee
conventions to which the UK is a signatory - totally
divorced from the EU - which strictly limit the number
of possible destinations.

Furthermore sod's law will probably dictate that the most
pathological problem cases are from countries which are
not seen as fit destinations.

That is what happens with immigrants from
the commonwealth.

That's because very few if any Commonwealth Countries
are currently engaged in civil wars or similar "local
difficulties" .


michael adams

....

michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Yes, but without a full world war, it doesn’t need to bankrupt itself
this time

No of course not. Two or three years of UK businesses both large and small
including farmers not being able to effectively plan for the future will
have absolutely no effect on the UK economy at all.

Separate matter to Britain BANKRUPTING itself this time.

British businesses did fine in the worst recession since the
the great depression and the country ended up with one
of the lowest unemployment rates of the majors in europe,
so it will handle brexit fine too if that is what happens.

And just like mobile phone contracts presumably you can't
just walk away without having to pay a penalty of some kind.

Nothing even remotely like a mobile phone contract.

In fact not only isnt there any financial penalty imposed
by leaving the EU, Britain wouldn’t have to keep paying
the billions a year it currently has to to be part of the EU.

Oh sorry there's the WTO. The day, after Brexit Gove and
Duncan Smith pop round to WTO HQ and it will be sorted
by the end of the week.

Doesn’t have to do anything, the WTO rules are there right
now and all Britain has to do is continue to comply with them.

Keep desperately FUDing, maybe someone will buy your FUD sometime.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
,

Like hell it is. Even if the pound does slump, that
will make exports much more successful

The UK imports 40% of its food.

I'm sure people on fixed incomes, pensioners,
people on benefits etc. are licking their lips
in anticipation.


michael adams

....

"Mark Allread" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:12:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/16 10:42, GB wrote:
What's the effect of a 30% fall? A fairly massive inflationary kick,
for a start. So, interest rates will go up

No. They will go down.

Interest rate rises cause inflation.

Why do you think we have 'quantitative easing' ? To keep inflation down.

and 30% fall in sterling would make any british export led industry have
a massive leap in profits, if those are booked in sterling.

Pity we won't have any Trade Agreements in place.

That's a lie with the commonwealth and no Britain is
free to trade under the WTO rules without any trade
agreements anyway. That is the whole point of the WTO.

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 15/06/16 10:18, tim... wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 15/06/16 09:03, Nightjar wrote:
On 15-Jun-16 8:44 AM, dennis@home wrote:
Are sterling prices falling because we might vote leave

Yes.

No.

In fact sterling has been rising steadily in step with the swing
towards brexit...

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/im...buryjune-7.PNG

So its just another remainer lie, really.

and if so why do
leavers keep saying it will go up if we leave?

I refer you to Mandy Rice Davies.

...to understand every utterance of the remainers.

And that is fundamentally what the team on Sky News said after
Alsitair Darling had woffled his way through some kind of doom and
gloom forecast.

Only if you understand that a whole political class and their gravy
train riders' very existence is threatened by this referendum, can
you realise exactly how far the public sector troughers will go in
lies and deception to preserve the status quo.

I couldn't believe Osbourne this morning on Today. His position
essentially seems to be that they offered a referendum while having no
plan as to what to do in the event of an exit vote. So now at the last
minute (just in time for polling day) comes this threat of an emergency
budget to deal with it.

Anyone with any sense knows that if there is a Leave vote Osbourne is
toast and won't be presenting Government anything.


Osborne. No 'U' in it.

Well I don't know that for sure either.

The government is still the government. Until we have an election. And I
don't think even her High Queenness can dissolve parliament without at
least a vote of no confidence.

FTAOD

I am not suggesting that the Government will fall but that Cameroon and,
as a consequence Osborne with him, will resign PDQ in the event of a Leave
vote.

they have invested to much political capital in Remain to do anything else

Bet it doesnt happen like that.

When Salmond resigned that was very unusual indeed in that situation.

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 17:06:58 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

FTAOD

I am not suggesting that the Government will fall but that Cameroon and,
as
a consequence Osborne with him, will resign PDQ in the event of a Leave
vote.

they have invested to much political capital in Remain to do anything else

tim




If 'Leave' wins, the consequences seem very uncertain. Cameron could
then put a motion before parliament requesting authority to proceed
with withdrawal negotiations, which, given that the official lines of
both Conservative and Labour parties are to 'remain', he could easily
lose by a large majority.

Then what?

Everything carries on unchanged, at least until the next general
election, and ignoring the fact that 'Leave' won?

Or there might be a vote of no confidence initiated by Labour, or the
Conservative 'Leave' group, the result of which is difficult to
predict. Unlike the referendum, where a simple majority of the entire
population will be enough to decide 'in' or 'out', it's a majority of
parliamentary seats that decides which party holds sway, and in recent
years the party with that majority doesn't necessarily have a majority
of votes cast throughout the country. As the current conservative
majority in the house is small, a slight swing to Labour could put
them in power,

Not a chance with Corbyn driving the Labour bus, you watch.
Labour hasn't got a hope in hell of forming govt until he gets
the bums rush.

and Corbyn is opposed to leaving the EU. So would he feel a
duty to negotiate with the EU to leave? Maybe, but maybe not.

So it seems to me that there's no certainty about us leaving the EU
even if 'Leave' wins.

The other obvious possibility is that if leave wins, Boris
gets to replace Cameron and puts one hell of a bomb
under those who want to ignore the referendum result.

Bet that is why he changed his position on leaving,
so he gets to replace Cameron and to leave as soon
as possible even if the EU attempts to stall that.

"Mark Allread" wrote in message
o.uk...
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:58:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/16 13:45, Mark Allread wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:12:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/16 10:42, GB wrote:
What's the effect of a 30% fall? A fairly massive inflationary kick,
for a start. So, interest rates will go up

No. They will go down.

Interest rate rises cause inflation.

Why do you think we have 'quantitative easing' ? To keep inflation
down.

and 30% fall in sterling would make any british export led industry
have a massive leap in profits, if those are booked in sterling.

Pity we won't have any Trade Agreements in place.

We do. Lots.

E.G.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...in-commercial-
deals-agreed-during-prime-minister-modi-visit

"India invests more in the UK than the rest of the European Union
combined [1]. In 2014-15 India emerged as Britains third biggest job
creator, creating 7,730 new jobs, with investments from India increasing
by 65% making it the third largest source of foreign direct investment
(FDI) [2]."

Oh, so we are now going to rely on India to bail us out? What happens
when the EU strikes a better deal

It wont be able to with the eurozone imploding spectacularly and
all those hordes of 'refugee' pouring into the EU across the Med.

and can also buy the raw materials at
more advantageous prices than we can?

Just another of your pathetic little fantasys. Even you should have
noticed that most of them come from commonwealth countrys that
will be very happy to flog Britain anything it needs raw materials wise.

So basically all we need to so is to partner up with India and the EU
can go **** itself.

Tut tut, such language - it almost made me blush. Why do you find it
necessary to descend to such levels and why your obsession with female
genitalia (evidenced elsewhere)? It just makes you look like a child who
thinks it is big and clever to go round shouting 'Poo!'

Nightjar wrote
Capitol wrote

I'm still waiting for the positive reasons to remain!

For me, it is to avoid the economic disaster that I expect should we
leave,

But would be deeply involved in the economic disaster when the eurozone
implodes.

plus a complete lack of interest in any of the things that the Brexit
campaign puts forward as reasons to leave. Others will, no doubt, have
their own reasons.

On 15/06/2016 17:14, tim... wrote:
8

The uncertainty is very real. What happens if we stay is fairly
predictable. However, the Leave campaign has persistently failed to
put forward any credible figures for what is going to happen if we leave.

because the Treasury refuses to calculate this for them

The treasury thinks we will be worse off, which bit do you think they
should lie about to change that?

where is it that you expect Leave to get hold of the equivalent model in
the "free" software world?

They can use the treasury model but why do you think it would give a
different answer?

On 15/06/2016 13:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/06/16 13:45, Mark Allread wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:12:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/16 10:42, GB wrote:
What's the effect of a 30% fall? A fairly massive inflationary kick,
for a start. So, interest rates will go up

No. They will go down.

Interest rate rises cause inflation.

Why do you think we have 'quantitative easing' ? To keep inflation down.

and 30% fall in sterling would make any british export led industry have
a massive leap in profits, if those are booked in sterling.

Pity we won't have any Trade Agreements in place.

We do. Lots.

E.G.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...ter-modi-visit


"India invests more in the UK than the rest of the European Union
combined [1]. In 2014-15 India emerged as Britains third biggest job
creator, creating 7,730 new jobs, with investments from India increasing
by 65% making it the third largest source of foreign direct investment
(FDI) [2]."

So basically all we need to so is to partner up with India and the EU
can go **** itself.




But India partners with us so it has access to the EU market.
Without that access things may not go as well as you think.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Anyone who seriously believes Dave was given a hard time in
attempting to renegotiate the UK's terms has seen nothing yet. There
will be two or three years of this with the UK suffering one
humilation after another.

At the end of the day we can simply walk away with "no deal".

The negotiation phase is to help the rest of the countries avoid any bad
effects of us leaving. If they don't offer us something in return for
that we don't have to accept it.

we don't have to suffer any humiliation.

Oh but we will, if we leave.

We'll see...

All those manufacturers and banks etc who
base here mainly because we're in the EU.

That isnt humiliation, that's their problem.

michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Nightjar wrote

The simple answer to that would be for the Leave campaign to set out
hard proposals for how they would handle Brexit. They still haven't
done so.

Given immigration is probably the issue that decides this, it would be
good to get some details from the outers what they propose to do with
all the immigrants already here.

Nothing except kick out the worst of those who get convicted of a serious
crime.

Kick them out where ?

Back to where they came from.

The problem is the various refugee conventions

We aren't talking about refugees, we are talking about
EU citizens who have chosen to move to Britain.

to which the UK is a signatory - totally divorced from the EU - which
strictly limit the number of possible destinations.

There is nothing like that with EU citizens who have moved to Britain.

Britain is free to send the worst of the convicted
criminals back to the country they came from.

France already does that with Romanians and doesn't
even restrict that to the worst of the convicted criminals.

The EU doesn’t like that and France just keeps doing that regardless.

Furthermore sod's law will probably dictate that the most pathological
problem cases are from countries which are not seen as fit destinations.

That isnt the case with EU citizens, by definition their
country would not have been allowed to join the EU
if the country wasn’t a fit destination for its nationals.

That is what happens with immigrants from the commonwealth.

That's because very few if any Commonwealth Countries are currently
engaged in civil wars or similar "local difficulties" .

Neither are any EU countries.

michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Like hell it is. Even if the pound does slump,
that will make exports much more successful

The UK imports 40% of its food.

But not from the cheapest places it is currently available
from because it is in the EU and has to pay duty etc on
food that isn't imported from the EU currently when the
EU can supply that.

I'm sure people on fixed incomes, pensioners, people
on benefits etc. are licking their lips in anticipation.

Most only spend a minor part of their total income on food now.

They can't shovel as much of the more expensive food into
their mouths anymore ? That should do something about the
obesity epidemic when they have to eat cheaper food instead.

Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it for the short time
that the pound did slump as Britain left the EU even if that does
happen until the eurozone implodes completely and the pound
ends up doing much better because Britain isnt involved in
bailing out the eurozone as it implodes spectacularly.

On 15/06/16 17:44, Mark Allread wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:58:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/16 13:45, Mark Allread wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:12:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/16 10:42, GB wrote:
What's the effect of a 30% fall? A fairly massive inflationary kick,
for a start. So, interest rates will go up

No. They will go down.

Interest rate rises cause inflation.

Why do you think we have 'quantitative easing' ? To keep inflation
down.

and 30% fall in sterling would make any british export led industry
have a massive leap in profits, if those are booked in sterling.

Pity we won't have any Trade Agreements in place.

We do. Lots.

E.G.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...in-commercial-
deals-agreed-during-prime-minister-modi-visit

"India invests more in the UK than the rest of the European Union
combined [1]. In 2014-15 India emerged as Britains third biggest job
creator, creating 7,730 new jobs, with investmgents from India increasing
by 65% making it the third largest source of foreign direct investment
(FDI) [2]."

Oh, so we are now going to rely on India to bail us out? What happens
when the EU strikes a better deal and can also buy the raw materials at
more advantageous prices than we can?

So basically all we need to so is to partner up with India and the EU
can go **** itself.

Tut tut, such language - it almost made me blush. Why do you find it
necessary to descend to such levels and why your obsession with female
genitalia (evidenced elsewhere)? It just makes you look like a child who
thinks it is big and clever to go round shouting 'Poo!'


I think I learnt it from the Working class Mark.
And thought it was how Real People Talk.


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

michael adams wrote:
"S wrote in message
...

On 6/15/2016 9:53 AM, michael adams wrote:

"Tim wrote

It went to $1.05 at its worst. I remember as I was in the U Sat the
time and the Yanks were commenting on it

snip

The tables on this site show the lowest sterling has ever gone
against the US dollar in the period 1960 - 1990 was £1.30
in 1985. As I won't use this as an opportunity to score a cheap
political point I won't comment any further.

https://www.measuringworth.com/datas...und/result.php

or in graph form

http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/dollhist-graph.htm


Different charts seem to provide different numbers - this one shows a rate of $1.0438
to the pound, in the 1980s.

Indeed. Having looked The Bank of England site gives a similar figure

Howver the original point being made was that this happened
in the 1970's, the implication being that it was under a Labour
Government.

quote

wrote in message
...



I can recall $1.2 to the pound in the 1970s. As an importer it was an interesting
experience.

/quote

when it fact it happened in 1985 - during the sixth year of the
Magnificent Reign of Our Late Supreme Leader - the Fount of all
Earthly Wisdom and She Who Must Be Obeyed.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to mention any of this as I find the
whole thing a bit upsetting myself, as can be imagined. But thank
you for your post, nevertheless.


michael adams

...








http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates-graph-zoom.php?C1=GBP&C2=USD&A=1&DD1=01&MM1=01&YYYY1=195 3&DD2=25&MM2=02&YYYY2=2013&LARGE=1&LANG=en&CJ=0





I was not implying that this was under a Labour government. I
used the wrong decade My point was that we have had much lower exchange
rates in the past half century and we're still here. Industry survives
by becoming more efficient, as you can tell by the rapid increase in the
standard of living in the 80s.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Mark wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:12:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


On 15/06/16 10:42, GB wrote:

What's the effect of a 30% fall? A fairly massive inflationary kick,
for a start. So, interest rates will go up

No. They will go down.

Interest rate rises cause inflation.

Why do you think we have 'quantitative easing' ? To keep inflation
down.

and 30% fall in sterling would make any british export led industry
have a massive leap in profits, if those are booked in sterling.


Pity we won't have any Trade Agreements in place.

Or much in the way of goods to export. Close the factories who are here
because we have tarrif free access to the EU - like Jaguar and Nissan -
and we'll have even less to export.
But everything we import - including so much of our food - will go up when
the pound drops.


You're obviously an Osborne admirer!

michael adams wrote:
wrote in message
...

On 15/06/2016 11:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Remember you don't need to be in power to get a salary and expenses.


The Kinnock family are a case in point. A more odious family of
utterly hyocritical troughers is difficult to imagine. Puts
The Hamiltons into the shade.

That chip on your shoulder does you proud.

Ginger, and Welsh and a windbag to boot, the old man anyway and yet they
still manage to get themselves elected into all sorts of positions.

At a guess you're neither a Ginger, nor Welsh, and yet you're still unelectable.
And so your windbaggery is confined to haranguing a dozen or so total
strangers on Usenet with no chance of a pension at all.

It's maybe no wonder you're so bitter.


michael adams

...




I haven't under stood your pensions comment.

Robin wrote:
On 15/06/2016 17:14, Tim... wrote:



because the Treasury refuses to calculate this for them

where is it that you expect Leave to get hold of the equivalent model in
the "free" software world?


Point of information: the "Treasury Model" is not secret. And it is
also used by the EY Item Club


So, that's wht EY keep getting it wrong!

Nightjar wrote:
On 15-Jun-16 5:14 PM, tim... wrote:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
....
The uncertainty is very real. What happens if we stay is fairly
predictable. However, the Leave campaign has persistently failed to
put forward any credible figures for what is going to happen if we
leave.

because the Treasury refuses to calculate this for them

where is it that you expect Leave to get hold of the equivalent model in
the "free" software world?

I would expect them to commission a report from any of the
universities or companies that provide expertise in the field. Of
course, many of those have already predicted that Brexit will result
in a reduction in Britain's GDP.


A minor drop in GDP is insignificant. The recessions I have lived
through have shown that.

Mark Allread wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:58:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


On 15/06/16 13:45, Mark Allread wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:12:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


On 15/06/16 10:42, GB wrote:

What's the effect of a 30% fall? A fairly massive inflationary kick,
for a start. So, interest rates will go up

No. They will go down.

Interest rate rises cause inflation.

Why do you think we have 'quantitative easing' ? To keep inflation
down.

and 30% fall in sterling would make any british export led industry
have a massive leap in profits, if those are booked in sterling.

Pity we won't have any Trade Agreements in place.


We do. Lots.

E.G.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...in-commercial-

deals-agreed-during-prime-minister-modi-visit

"India invests more in the UK than the rest of the European Union
combined [1]. In 2014-15 India emerged as Britain’s third biggest job
creator, creating 7,730 new jobs, with investments from India increasing
by 65% making it the third largest source of foreign direct investment
(FDI) [2]."

Oh, so we are now going to rely on India to bail us out? What happens
when the EU strikes a better deal and can also buy the raw materials at
more advantageous prices than we can?

So basically all we need to so is to partner up with India and the EU
can go **** itself.

Tut tut, such language - it almost made me blush. Why do you find it
necessary to descend to such levels and why your obsession with female
genitalia (evidenced elsewhere)? It just makes you look like a child who
thinks it is big and clever to go round shouting 'Poo!'

Raw material prices are set by buyers and governments, not by higher
import tariffs.

Nightjar wrote:
On 15-Jun-16 12:36 PM, Capitol wrote:
....
I'm still waiting for the positive reasons to remain!

For me, it is to avoid the economic disaster that I expect should we
leave, plus a complete lack of interest in any of the things that the
Brexit campaign puts forward as reasons to leave. Others will, no
doubt, have their own reasons.

You have immediately started with the negative reason.

michael adams wrote:
"Rod wrote in message
...
,

Like hell it is. Even if the pound does slump, that
will make exports much more successful

The UK imports 40% of its food.

I'm sure people on fixed incomes, pensioners,
people on benefits etc. are licking their lips
in anticipation.


michael adams

...



EU food prices are higher than world food prices. In many
foods, the ingredients are less than 10% of the selling price, so any
increase in final price will be very low. That's assuming no competition
to force selling prices down.

Rod Speed wrote:
michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Like hell it is. Even if the pound does slump, that will make
exports much more successful

The UK imports 40% of its food.

But not from the cheapest places it is currently available from
because it is in the EU and has to pay duty etc on
food that isn't imported from the EU currently when the
EU can supply that.
I'm sure people on fixed incomes, pensioners, people on benefits etc.
are licking their lips in anticipation.

Most only spend a minor part of their total income on food now.
They can't shovel as much of the more expensive food into
their mouths anymore ? That should do something about the obesity
epidemic when they have to eat cheaper food instead.
Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it for the short time that
the pound did slump as Britain left the EU even if that does happen
until the eurozone implodes completely and the pound ends up doing
much better because Britain isnt involved in bailing out the eurozone
as it implodes spectacularly.

I hate doing this but for once I agree with Rod.

On 16/06/16 03:42, Capitol wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Like hell it is. Even if the pound does slump, that will make
exports much more successful

The UK imports 40% of its food.

But not from the cheapest places it is currently available from
because it is in the EU and has to pay duty etc on
food that isn't imported from the EU currently when the
EU can supply that.
I'm sure people on fixed incomes, pensioners, people on benefits etc.
are licking their lips in anticipation.

Most only spend a minor part of their total income on food now.
They can't shovel as much of the more expensive food into
their mouths anymore ? That should do something about the obesity
epidemic when they have to eat cheaper food instead.
Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it for the short time that
the pound did slump as Britain left the EU even if that does happen
until the eurozone implodes completely and the pound ends up doing
much better because Britain isnt involved in bailing out the eurozone
as it implodes spectacularly.

I hate doing this but for once I agree with Rod.
No. Its cheap food that causes obesity.

Starch makes you fat.



--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 16/06/16 03:42, Capitol wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Like hell it is. Even if the pound does slump, that will make
exports much more successful

The UK imports 40% of its food.

But not from the cheapest places it is currently available from
because it is in the EU and has to pay duty etc on
food that isn't imported from the EU currently when the
EU can supply that.
I'm sure people on fixed incomes, pensioners, people on benefits etc.
are licking their lips in anticipation.

Most only spend a minor part of their total income on food now.
They can't shovel as much of the more expensive food into
their mouths anymore ? That should do something about the obesity
epidemic when they have to eat cheaper food instead.
Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it for the short time that
the pound did slump as Britain left the EU even if that does happen
until the eurozone implodes completely and the pound ends up doing
much better because Britain isnt involved in bailing out the eurozone
as it implodes spectacularly.

I hate doing this but for once I agree with Rod.
No. Its cheap food that causes obesity.

Starch makes you fat.

More calories into your mouth than you burn is what makes you fat.

On 16/06/16 05:32, Bosco Green wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 16/06/16 03:42, Capitol wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Like hell it is. Even if the pound does slump, that will make
exports much more successful

The UK imports 40% of its food.

But not from the cheapest places it is currently available from
because it is in the EU and has to pay duty etc on
food that isn't imported from the EU currently when the
EU can supply that.
I'm sure people on fixed incomes, pensioners, people on benefits etc.
are licking their lips in anticipation.

Most only spend a minor part of their total income on food now.
They can't shovel as much of the more expensive food into
their mouths anymore ? That should do something about the obesity
epidemic when they have to eat cheaper food instead.
Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it for the short time that
the pound did slump as Britain left the EU even if that does happen
until the eurozone implodes completely and the pound ends up doing
much better because Britain isnt involved in bailing out the eurozone
as it implodes spectacularly.

I hate doing this but for once I agree with Rod.
No. Its cheap food that causes obesity.

Starch makes you fat.

More calories into your mouth than you burn is what makes you fat.
Starch by giving you sugar highs and lows, encourages you to put moire
calories in your mouth


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 16/06/16 05:32, Bosco Green wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 16/06/16 03:42, Capitol wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
michael adams wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Like hell it is. Even if the pound does slump, that will make
exports much more successful

The UK imports 40% of its food.

But not from the cheapest places it is currently available from
because it is in the EU and has to pay duty etc on
food that isn't imported from the EU currently when the
EU can supply that.
I'm sure people on fixed incomes, pensioners, people on benefits etc.
are licking their lips in anticipation.

Most only spend a minor part of their total income on food now.
They can't shovel as much of the more expensive food into
their mouths anymore ? That should do something about the obesity
epidemic when they have to eat cheaper food instead.
Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it for the short time that
the pound did slump as Britain left the EU even if that does happen
until the eurozone implodes completely and the pound ends up doing
much better because Britain isnt involved in bailing out the eurozone
as it implodes spectacularly.

I hate doing this but for once I agree with Rod.
No. Its cheap food that causes obesity.

Starch makes you fat.

More calories into your mouth than you burn is what makes you fat.
Starch by giving you sugar highs and lows, encourages you to put moire
calories in your mouth

Must explain why all those Japanese got so obese eating their traditional
rice diets.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 15/06/16 10:18, tim... wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 15/06/16 09:03, Nightjar wrote:
On 15-Jun-16 8:44 AM, dennis@home wrote:
Are sterling prices falling because we might vote leave

Yes.

No.

In fact sterling has been rising steadily in step with the swing
towards brexit...

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/im...buryjune-7.PNG

So its just another remainer lie, really.

and if so why do
leavers keep saying it will go up if we leave?

I refer you to Mandy Rice Davies.

...to understand every utterance of the remainers.

And that is fundamentally what the team on Sky News said after
Alsitair Darling had woffled his way through some kind of doom and
gloom forecast.

Only if you understand that a whole political class and their gravy
train riders' very existence is threatened by this referendum, can
you realise exactly how far the public sector troughers will go in
lies and deception to preserve the status quo.

I couldn't believe Osbourne this morning on Today. His position
essentially seems to be that they offered a referendum while having no
plan as to what to do in the event of an exit vote. So now at the last
minute (just in time for polling day) comes this threat of an
emergency
budget to deal with it.

Anyone with any sense knows that if there is a Leave vote Osbourne is
toast and won't be presenting Government anything.


Osborne. No 'U' in it.

Well I don't know that for sure either.

The government is still the government. Until we have an election. And I
don't think even her High Queenness can dissolve parliament without at
least a vote of no confidence.

FTAOD

I am not suggesting that the Government will fall but that Cameroon and,
as a consequence Osborne with him, will resign PDQ in the event of a
Leave vote.

they have invested to much political capital in Remain to do anything
else

Bet it doesnt happen like that.

When Salmond resigned that was very unusual indeed in that situation.

But there are circumstances where the incumbent PM has resigned to be
replaced by another from their party. In my adulthood, Wilson did it,
Thatcher did it and Blair did it

Though we have never had a situation like this before where the governing
party have, in effect, asked the electorate for a vote of confidence mid
term without actually resigning first.

But it is (now) normal for a party leader to resign if they lose an election
(even if they were expected to lose it), and IMHO this is no different from
that

tim

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Anyone who seriously believes Dave was given a hard time in
attempting to renegotiate the UK's terms has seen nothing yet. There
will be two or three years of this with the UK suffering one
humilation after another.

At the end of the day we can simply walk away with "no deal".

The negotiation phase is to help the rest of the countries avoid any bad
effects of us leaving. If they don't offer us something in return for
that we don't have to accept it.

we don't have to suffer any humiliation.

Oh but we will, if we leave. All those manufacturers and banks etc who
base here mainly because we're in the EU.

will still be here after we leave

tim

in 1494855 20160615 101802 "tim..." wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message
. ..
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 15/06/16 09:03, Nightjar wrote:
On 15-Jun-16 8:44 AM, dennis@home wrote:
Are sterling prices falling because we might vote leave

Yes.

No.

In fact sterling has been rising steadily in step with the swing towards
brexit...

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/im...buryjune-7.PNG

So its just another remainer lie, really.

and if so why do
leavers keep saying it will go up if we leave?

I refer you to Mandy Rice Davies.

...to understand every utterance of the remainers.

And that is fundamentally what the team on Sky News said after Alsitair
Darling had woffled his way through some kind of doom and gloom forecast.

Only if you understand that a whole political class and their gravy train
riders' very existence is threatened by this referendum, can you realise
exactly how far the public sector troughers will go in lies and deception
to preserve the status quo.

I couldn't believe Osbourne this morning on Today. His position
essentially seems to be that they offered a referendum while having no
plan as to what to do in the event of an exit vote. So now at the last
minute (just in time for polling day) comes this threat of an emergency
budget to deal with it.

Anyone with any sense knows that if there is a Leave vote Osbourne is toast
and won't be presenting Government anything.

There is no U in Osborne.

On 16/06/2016 03:37, Capitol wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 15-Jun-16 12:36 PM, Capitol wrote:
....
I'm still waiting for the positive reasons to remain!

For me, it is to avoid the economic disaster that I expect should we
leave, plus a complete lack of interest in any of the things that the
Brexit campaign puts forward as reasons to leave. Others will, no
doubt, have their own reasons.

You have immediately started with the negative reason.

Its a positive reason from one side and a negative from yours.
All your reasons to leave are negatives too, you just lie about them
being positive as the figures show.

On 16-Jun-16 3:37 AM, Capitol wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 15-Jun-16 12:36 PM, Capitol wrote:
....
I'm still waiting for the positive reasons to remain!

For me, it is to avoid the economic disaster that I expect should we
leave, plus a complete lack of interest in any of the things that the
Brexit campaign puts forward as reasons to leave. Others will, no
doubt, have their own reasons.

You have immediately started with the negative reason.

If you prefer me to state the same thing in a positive way, because I
want Britain to have a strong economy, which it only has a significant
chance of achieving if we stay in.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On 16/06/2016 05:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
8

Starch makes you fat.

More calories into your mouth than you burn is what makes you fat.
Starch by giving you sugar highs and lows, encourages you to put moire
calories in your mouth

There are different types of starchy foods, ITYM high GI foods make you
do that, low GI foods don't.
Pasta is starchy but some, like lasagne, have a much higher GI than
others. Its something to do with the manufacturing process as they start
with the same basic ingredients. Apparently cooking them twice with a
cool phase between makes pasta even lower GI.

On 16/06/2016 08:14, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 04:45:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

No. Its cheap food that causes obesity.

Starch makes you fat.

Excess calories make you fat. What you don't burn off you store as fat
for use in lean times. But starches, i.e. carbohydrates, are cheap and
can be made very attractive and flavorsome, so it's easy and
gratifying to eat lots.

A high protein diet increases the feeling of satiety, i.e. it
depresses your appetite, so you eat less. There's a small but growing
POV that all the problems with cholesterol and heart disease are due
to eating too much carbohydrate rather than fat.


They are probably wrong though, cholesterol levels don't have much to do
with obesity or even food, I, for example am overweight but have a very
low cholesterol level (less than 2.8) and eat starchy foods.

There are those who suggest of course that the current stay in offer is not
very exciting as there is already an improved offer which Cameron wil
suddenly negotiate to allow him to say, we have a much better deal so I'll
ignor the referendum. Its what I'd have done in his position.
Brian

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"Bosco Green" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 15/06/16 11:02, Bosco Green wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Only if you understand that a whole political class and their gravy
train riders' very existence is threatened by this referendum,

Like hell it is when if Britain leaves they EU they get to decide policy
again.

Indeed so, but their ability to decide policy unhampered by the next
elections outcome is massively reduced.

Not when Labour has committed political suicide by electing Corbyn
and UKIP would be politically irrelevant once Britain has left the EU.

The British public have been woken up.

No they haven't. I doubt there will even be anything like the percentage
to bother to vote in the referendum as there was in Scotland.

They wont be lulled back to sleep so easily.

Bet they are whatever the result of the referendum is, just like with the
Scottish referendum. Very few of the voters give a damn about those
issues.

Obviously little to say then...
Brian

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"bm" wrote in message
web.com...

On 16-Jun-16 3:29 AM, Capitol wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 15-Jun-16 5:14 PM, tim... wrote:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
....
The uncertainty is very real. What happens if we stay is fairly
predictable. However, the Leave campaign has persistently failed to
put forward any credible figures for what is going to happen if we
leave.

because the Treasury refuses to calculate this for them

where is it that you expect Leave to get hold of the equivalent model in
the "free" software world?

I would expect them to commission a report from any of the
universities or companies that provide expertise in the field. Of
course, many of those have already predicted that Brexit will result
in a reduction in Britain's GDP.


A minor drop in GDP is insignificant. The recessions I have lived
through have shown that.

Those have only been short term drops, measured, at worst, in a few
quarters. If we leave, the loss of inward investment to us as a gateway
to the EU will be permanent and the effect will last for many years.

--
--

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16-Jun-16 3:29 AM, Capitol wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 15-Jun-16 5:14 PM, tim... wrote:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
....
The uncertainty is very real. What happens if we stay is fairly
predictable. However, the Leave campaign has persistently failed to
put forward any credible figures for what is going to happen if we
leave.

because the Treasury refuses to calculate this for them

where is it that you expect Leave to get hold of the equivalent model
in
the "free" software world?

I would expect them to commission a report from any of the
universities or companies that provide expertise in the field. Of
course, many of those have already predicted that Brexit will result
in a reduction in Britain's GDP.


A minor drop in GDP is insignificant. The recessions I have lived
through have shown that.

Those have only been short term drops, measured, at worst, in a few
quarters.

did you sleep through 2008?

If we leave, the loss of inward investment to us as a gateway to the EU
will be permanent

will it

want to bet?

and the effect will last for many years.

you really did sleep through 2008, didn't you

tim