We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump chucks water out?

wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

You don't need AAv's for a washing machine, and the pipe doesn't need to be
50mm, also you can plumb the waste from the washing machine into a nearby
soilstack, it doesn't have to go into a gulley.


To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?


Overcomplicating a very simple job and wasting £250 IMO

On 6/8/2016 9:44 PM, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

You don't need AAv's for a washing machine, and the pipe doesn't need to be
50mm, also you can plumb the waste from the washing machine into a nearby
soilstack, it doesn't have to go into a gulley.


To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?


Overcomplicating a very simple job and wasting £250 IMO


I'm inclined to agree, I'd expect a washing machine pump to discharge
happily enough through 8 metres of 3/4 flexible hose (assuming it is a
more or less horizontal run, rather than vertically upwards). Especially
if you can manage a downwards slope on the final part.

On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:43:55 UTC+1, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

You don't need AAv's for a washing machine, and the pipe doesn't need to be
50mm, also you can plumb the waste from the washing machine into a nearby
soilstack, it doesn't have to go into a gulley.


To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?


Overcomplicating a very simple job and wasting £250 IMO

Does let us add a shower there though. However, supposing we don't worry about that, I thought max length of 40mm pipe was 3m. Are you saying it'll be alright for a washing machine over 8m and a couple of bends? That is to the stack, there is no gully anywhere near.

On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 22:56:48 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 6/8/2016 9:44 PM, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

You don't need AAv's for a washing machine, and the pipe doesn't need to be
50mm, also you can plumb the waste from the washing machine into a nearby
soilstack, it doesn't have to go into a gulley.


To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?


Overcomplicating a very simple job and wasting £250 IMO


I'm inclined to agree, I'd expect a washing machine pump to discharge
happily enough through 8 metres of 3/4 flexible hose (assuming it is a
more or less horizontal run, rather than vertically upwards). Especially
if you can manage a downwards slope on the final part.

OK, if we're saying it will work through 3/4 hose, that;s a totally different matter and will make SWMBO very happy. And yes, it's a horizontal run. I can manage a continuous downward slope.

On 08/06/2016 21:34, wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump chucks water out?

IME washing machine pumps don't really pump very well, they just harass
the water into moving on a bit. In a similar situation, I bought a
spare pump, wired it in parallel with the existing pump and put it half
way along the outlet. That worked fine.

Cheers
--
Syd

On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 23:14:19 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:43:55 UTC+1, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

You don't need AAv's for a washing machine, and the pipe doesn't need to be
50mm, also you can plumb the waste from the washing machine into a nearby
soilstack, it doesn't have to go into a gulley.


To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?


Overcomplicating a very simple job and wasting £250 IMO

Does let us add a shower there though. However, supposing we don't worry about that, I thought max length of 40mm pipe was 3m. Are you saying it'll be alright for a washing machine over 8m and a couple of bends? That is to the stack, there is no gully anywhere near.

If you do encounter difficulty, just fit a 2nd (used) washing machine pump, wired to the first.


NT

On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1, wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.
However with a long small pipe, you can expect blockages, be sure to leave rodding/cleaning out points.
You must have a fall, horizontal runs will cause problems.

You can buy a ready made pump system BTW.
This will be more trouble free.

http://www.saniflo.com/homeowners/sf...-laundry-room/

On Thursday, 9 June 2016 06:59:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1, wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.

bzzt wrong answer

However with a long small pipe, you can expect blockages, be sure to leave rodding/cleaning out points.
You must have a fall, horizontal runs will cause problems.

You can buy a ready made pump system BTW.
This will be more trouble free.

http://www.saniflo.com/homeowners/sf...-laundry-room/

lol!


NT

On 09/06/2016 06:59, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1, wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.
However with a long small pipe, you can expect blockages, be sure to leave rodding/cleaning out points.
You must have a fall, horizontal runs will cause problems.

You can buy a ready made pump system BTW.
This will be more trouble free.

http://www.saniflo.com/homeowners/sf...-laundry-room/


I looked at those, to pump washing machine waste from a cellar. When I
checked with Saniflow (about 2 years back) they confirmed that their
pumps would not handle a hot wash - which made them pretty limited for
me (I like to run a hot wash every 6 months or so).

The Grundfos is pretty good, but the discharge rate is very rapid. I
wouldn't have thought it operates for more than 20 seconds for an entire
cycle. And the float has stuck a couple of times - a kick cures it, but
a rebuild doesn't reveal the cause. As others have said - for the OP,
it'd likely be overkill.

--
Cheers, Rob

En el artículo ,
escribió:

OK, if we're saying it will work through 3/4 hose, that;s a totally different
matter and will make SWMBO very happy. And yes, it's a horizontal run. I can
manage a continuous downward slope.

Just a reminder to make the exit pipe from the machine higher than the
top of the drum, or it'll drain out as fast as the water enters.

BTDTGTTS.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 6/8/2016 11:17 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 22:56:48 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 6/8/2016 9:44 PM, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

You don't need AAv's for a washing machine, and the pipe doesn't need to be
50mm, also you can plumb the waste from the washing machine into a nearby
soilstack, it doesn't have to go into a gulley.


To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?


Overcomplicating a very simple job and wasting £250 IMO


I'm inclined to agree, I'd expect a washing machine pump to discharge
happily enough through 8 metres of 3/4 flexible hose (assuming it is a
more or less horizontal run, rather than vertically upwards). Especially
if you can manage a downwards slope on the final part.

OK, if we're saying it will work through 3/4 hose, that;s a totally different matter and will make SWMBO very happy. And yes, it's a horizontal run. I can manage a continuous downward slope.

I hope I am right now! Pipe friction will put some extra load on the
pump, but having a downward run should help. I think perhaps I would be
inclined to give it a try with just an 8 metre coil of hose on the
floor. I suppose I should try to do some pipe calcs for you, except that
I don't have pump head and nominal flow rate data to hand.

On 6/9/2016 8:17 AM, RJH wrote:
On 09/06/2016 06:59, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1, wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the
machine is empty.
However with a long small pipe, you can expect blockages, be sure to
leave rodding/cleaning out points.
You must have a fall, horizontal runs will cause problems.

You can buy a ready made pump system BTW.
This will be more trouble free.

http://www.saniflo.com/homeowners/sf...-laundry-room/



I looked at those, to pump washing machine waste from a cellar. When I
checked with Saniflow (about 2 years back) they confirmed that their
pumps would not handle a hot wash - which made them pretty limited for
me (I like to run a hot wash every 6 months or so).


I can confirm that this can be an issue. Many years ago when kids were
at home and I had a combi, you didn't get hot water in the shower room
when it was being run elsewhere. One morning, boy in shower room left
hot tap on presumably waiting for girl elsewhere to stop using water.
Evidently gave up in disgust and went to school leaving tap wide open
(but not running).

A couple of hours later I had a call from disabled granny alone in the
house with water coming through kitchen ceiling. Bottom line, the shower
room sink drains to a saniflo. After running hot water for some time,
the saniflo tripped out. Once the shower tray had filled up with
undrained hot water from the sink, it overflowed ending up in the
kitchen below.

However, I would have thought that with modern low consumption washing
machines, the volume from a hot wash would not normally overwhelm a saniflo.

On 09/06/2016 07:15, wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 06:59:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1, wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.

bzzt wrong answer



Can you expand on that please? I ask as on the few machines I've used
the pumps seemed to operate until the machine is "empty"[1], not for a
timed period. My main evidence for that is their behaviour (a) when
used on different cycles with different water levels; and (b) when used
to spin stuff put in wet, or to spin after being paused. In those circs.
the pump operated for a varying periods before starting the spin cycle,
not for a fixed time.

[1] taking empty to mean "negligible more water can be pumped"
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 09/06/2016 11:58, newshound wrote:
On 6/9/2016 8:17 AM, RJH wrote:
On 09/06/2016 06:59, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1,
wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the
machine is empty.
However with a long small pipe, you can expect blockages, be sure to
leave rodding/cleaning out points.
You must have a fall, horizontal runs will cause problems.

You can buy a ready made pump system BTW.
This will be more trouble free.

http://www.saniflo.com/homeowners/sf...-laundry-room/




I looked at those, to pump washing machine waste from a cellar. When I
checked with Saniflow (about 2 years back) they confirmed that their
pumps would not handle a hot wash - which made them pretty limited for
me (I like to run a hot wash every 6 months or so).


I can confirm that this can be an issue. Many years ago when kids were
at home and I had a combi, you didn't get hot water in the shower room
when it was being run elsewhere. One morning, boy in shower room left
hot tap on presumably waiting for girl elsewhere to stop using water.
Evidently gave up in disgust and went to school leaving tap wide open
(but not running).

A couple of hours later I had a call from disabled granny alone in the
house with water coming through kitchen ceiling. Bottom line, the shower
room sink drains to a saniflo. After running hot water for some time,
the saniflo tripped out. Once the shower tray had filled up with
undrained hot water from the sink, it overflowed ending up in the
kitchen below.

However, I would have thought that with modern low consumption washing
machines, the volume from a hot wash would not normally overwhelm a
saniflo.


It was the water temperature (60C max), not the volume of water I was
referring to.

Although a quick look at the data sheet suggests that the Saniflo
discharges at a third of the rate of the Grundfos (c.1.2 vs 3.4 litres/s)

--
Cheers, Rob

On 09/06/16 13:09, Robin wrote:
On 09/06/2016 07:15, wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 06:59:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1,
wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the
flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the
machine is empty.

bzzt wrong answer



Can you expand on that please? I ask as on the few machines I've used
the pumps seemed to operate until the machine is "empty"[1], not for a
timed period. My main evidence for that is their behaviour (a) when
used on different cycles with different water levels; and (b) when used
to spin stuff put in wet, or to spin after being paused. In those circs.
the pump operated for a varying periods before starting the spin cycle,
not for a fixed time.

[1] taking empty to mean "negligible more water can be pumped"

I think wot e ment was that your answer whilst technically correct, was
not an answer to the question as posed.


--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

On 09/06/2016 13:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
snip

I think wot e ment was that your answer whilst technically correct, was
not an answer to the question as posed.


Ah - ta.

PS
Not "your answer". Pleeeeeease don't confuse me with harry.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 23:14:19 UTC+1, wrote:
I thought max length of 40mm pipe was 3m. Are you saying it'll be alright
for a washing machine over 8m and a couple of bends?

I really hope so, it's what I'm putting in my kitchen.

My old machine could pump out faster than the u-bend would take it, and overflow the standpipe. The new one doesn't; I think that has more do to with the lower volume of water than the speed of pumping.

Owain

On 09/06/16 14:00, Robin wrote:
On 09/06/2016 13:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
snip

I think wot e ment was that your answer whilst technically correct, was
not an answer to the question as posed.


Ah - ta.

PS
Not "your answer". Pleeeeeease don't confuse me with harry.

Heaven Forfend!

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On Thursday, 9 June 2016 13:09:41 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 09/06/2016 07:15, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 06:59:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.

bzzt wrong answer

Can you expand on that please? I ask as on the few machines I've used
the pumps seemed to operate until the machine is "empty"[1], not for a
timed period. My main evidence for that is their behaviour (a) when
used on different cycles with different water levels; and (b) when used
to spin stuff put in wet, or to spin after being paused. In those circs.
the pump operated for a varying periods before starting the spin cycle,
not for a fixed time.

[1] taking empty to mean "negligible more water can be pumped"

Washing machines don't normally have a water empty sensor, so they just pump for enough time. But I wouldn't be too surprised if they've started monitoring pump current now to see when to stop, saving energy, but I've never had one that does that.


NT

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 06:21:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 23:14:19 UTC+1, wrote:
I thought max length of 40mm pipe was 3m. Are you saying it'll be alright
for a washing machine over 8m and a couple of bends?

I really hope so, it's what I'm putting in my kitchen.

My old machine could pump out faster than the u-bend would take it, and overflow the standpipe. The new one doesn't; I think that has more do to with the lower volume of water than the speed of pumping.

Owain

Couple of years ago I got a mid-range Siemens machine (it was crap!). The
standpipe overflowed, after being OK with the old AEG for 13 years.
The pipe was 32mm; I stripped it out and there was about 5mm of clag in the
bottom. Replaced it with 40mm and that was OK.
Eventually rejected the Siemens and got a JL own-branded one that's so
similar to an AEG that the AEG's booklet can be used. That had no problem
with the pipe as expected.

It's not the volume but he rate. A couple of litres too fast will overfill
the pipe, of course.
The JL's pump is a bit noisy and the impeller touches the housing; the
Siemens pump was almost silent and the impeller was about 5mm clear of the
housing.

Yes, almost all machines need the standpipe to be quite high, but a Miele
that I installed about 15 years ago could straight to a drain - and could
also pump to some ridiculous height.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 08/06/2016 23:14, wrote:
Does let us add a shower there though. However, supposing we don't
worry about that, I thought max length of 40mm pipe was 3m. Are you
saying it'll be alright for a washing machine over 8m and a couple of
bends? That is to the stack, there is no gully anywhere near.

Really haven't got my head around exactly what you are saying, but I
would happily use a HepVo trap on the shower and not bother with AAV, if
you are saying what I think you are saying.

--
Rod

On Thursday, 9 June 2016 07:15:36 UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 06:59:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1, wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.

bzzt wrong answer

However with a long small pipe, you can expect blockages, be sure to leave rodding/cleaning out points.
You must have a fall, horizontal runs will cause problems.

You can buy a ready made pump system BTW.
This will be more trouble free.

http://www.saniflo.com/homeowners/sf...-laundry-room/

lol!


NT

Bzzt ****-fer-brains.
I used to repair these machines many years ago.

On Thursday, 9 June 2016 13:09:41 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 09/06/2016 07:15, wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 06:59:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1, wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.

bzzt wrong answer



Can you expand on that please? I ask as on the few machines I've used
the pumps seemed to operate until the machine is "empty"[1], not for a
timed period. My main evidence for that is their behaviour (a) when
used on different cycles with different water levels; and (b) when used
to spin stuff put in wet, or to spin after being paused. In those circs.
the pump operated for a varying periods before starting the spin cycle,
not for a fixed time.

[1] taking empty to mean "negligible more water can be pumped"
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

There are water level switches in the machine.
One controls fill to the desired level.
Another controls the pump ("tells" the programmer that the machine is empty..)
Another stops the heater coming on if there's no water in the machine.
Another stops the spin function from working if there is water in the machine/pump fails.

In practice these are usually in the form of two multi switches.
They used to work on air pressure from a chamber mounted low on the tub.
I think some newer machines have sensors that work on resistance now.

On Thursday, 9 June 2016 15:00:56 UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 13:09:41 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 09/06/2016 07:15, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 06:59:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.

bzzt wrong answer

Can you expand on that please? I ask as on the few machines I've used
the pumps seemed to operate until the machine is "empty"[1], not for a
timed period. My main evidence for that is their behaviour (a) when
used on different cycles with different water levels; and (b) when used
to spin stuff put in wet, or to spin after being paused. In those circs.
the pump operated for a varying periods before starting the spin cycle,
not for a fixed time.

[1] taking empty to mean "negligible more water can be pumped"

Washing machines don't normally have a water empty sensor, so they just pump for enough time. But I wouldn't be too surprised if they've started monitoring pump current now to see when to stop, saving energy, but I've never had one that does that.


NT

They do have an empty sensor to ensure the heater won't come on when the machine is empty.

On Saturday, 11 June 2016 08:24:38 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 07:15:36 UTC+1, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 06:59:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1, wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.

bzzt wrong answer

However with a long small pipe, you can expect blockages, be sure to leave rodding/cleaning out points.
You must have a fall, horizontal runs will cause problems.

You can buy a ready made pump system BTW.
This will be more trouble free.

http://www.saniflo.com/homeowners/sf...-laundry-room/

lol!

Bzzt ****-fer-brains.
I used to repair these machines many years ago.

saniflos? that says it all.

On Saturday, 11 June 2016 08:32:15 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 13:09:41 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 09/06/2016 07:15, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 06:59:42 UTC+1, harry wrote:

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the machine is empty.

bzzt wrong answer

Can you expand on that please? I ask as on the few machines I've used
the pumps seemed to operate until the machine is "empty"[1], not for a
timed period. My main evidence for that is their behaviour (a) when
used on different cycles with different water levels; and (b) when used
to spin stuff put in wet, or to spin after being paused. In those circs.
the pump operated for a varying periods before starting the spin cycle,
not for a fixed time.

[1] taking empty to mean "negligible more water can be pumped"

There are water level switches in the machine.
One controls fill to the desired level.

Yes, 2 fill level switches, one for most washes and one for deep fill for delicates etc

Another controls the pump ("tells" the programmer that the machine is empty.)

The water level switches are pressure operated. It's not workable to create a switch this way that tells the programmer when the tub is empty.

The programmer controls the pump. It's timed.

Another stops the heater coming on if there's no water in the machine.

The heater doesn't come on unless water has reached wash level. There is no 'empty' detection.

Another stops the spin function from working if there is water in the machine/pump fails.

nope. In a pump failure scenario the water doesn't drop below wash level, which is detected. If for some unusual reason there is some water in the tub when it goes into spin, it just doesn't spin as the water provides a lot of resistance.


In practice these are usually in the form of two multi switches.
They used to work on air pressure from a chamber mounted low on the tub.

they do indeed. It used to be a thin pipe from low on the tub, but scale tended to block those resulting in flooding, hence a small airbottle is now added to prevent that.


NT

On 6/9/2016 1:26 PM, RJH wrote:
On 09/06/2016 11:58, newshound wrote:
On 6/9/2016 8:17 AM, RJH wrote:
On 09/06/2016 06:59, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1,
wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the
machine is empty.
However with a long small pipe, you can expect blockages, be sure to
leave rodding/cleaning out points.
You must have a fall, horizontal runs will cause problems.

You can buy a ready made pump system BTW.
This will be more trouble free.

http://www.saniflo.com/homeowners/sf...-laundry-room/





I looked at those, to pump washing machine waste from a cellar. When I
checked with Saniflow (about 2 years back) they confirmed that their
pumps would not handle a hot wash - which made them pretty limited for
me (I like to run a hot wash every 6 months or so).


I can confirm that this can be an issue. Many years ago when kids were
at home and I had a combi, you didn't get hot water in the shower room
when it was being run elsewhere. One morning, boy in shower room left
hot tap on presumably waiting for girl elsewhere to stop using water.
Evidently gave up in disgust and went to school leaving tap wide open
(but not running).

A couple of hours later I had a call from disabled granny alone in the
house with water coming through kitchen ceiling. Bottom line, the shower
room sink drains to a saniflo. After running hot water for some time,
the saniflo tripped out. Once the shower tray had filled up with
undrained hot water from the sink, it overflowed ending up in the
kitchen below.

However, I would have thought that with modern low consumption washing
machines, the volume from a hot wash would not normally overwhelm a
saniflo.


It was the water temperature (60C max), not the volume of water I was
referring to.

Although a quick look at the data sheet suggests that the Saniflo
discharges at a third of the rate of the Grundfos (c.1.2 vs 3.4 litres/s)

No, my point was that (say) three or four litres of hot water going
through a Saniflo would not warm it up enough to cause problems. The
seal materials, etc, will be fine. What caused mine to trip was a
continuous flow from a combi, perhaps five litres a minute at 40 C,
going through it for perhaps an hour. They are not continuous rated, so
actually water temperature might not have been so much the issue (except
that obviously the motor / controller might warm up faster if it is
pumping hot water).

On 11/06/2016 11:33, newshound wrote:
On 6/9/2016 1:26 PM, RJH wrote:
On 09/06/2016 11:58, newshound wrote:
On 6/9/2016 8:17 AM, RJH wrote:
On 09/06/2016 06:59, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:34:02 UTC+1,
wrote:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where
drainage will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m
of walls with some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump,
most likely a Grundfos Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to
say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the
inflow (too small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow
will be too slow to self-clean).

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine
pump chucks water out?

The pumping out is not a timed operation, the pump runs until the
machine is empty.
However with a long small pipe, you can expect blockages, be sure to
leave rodding/cleaning out points.
You must have a fall, horizontal runs will cause problems.

You can buy a ready made pump system BTW.
This will be more trouble free.

http://www.saniflo.com/homeowners/sf...-laundry-room/






I looked at those, to pump washing machine waste from a cellar. When I
checked with Saniflow (about 2 years back) they confirmed that their
pumps would not handle a hot wash - which made them pretty limited for
me (I like to run a hot wash every 6 months or so).


I can confirm that this can be an issue. Many years ago when kids were
at home and I had a combi, you didn't get hot water in the shower room
when it was being run elsewhere. One morning, boy in shower room left
hot tap on presumably waiting for girl elsewhere to stop using water.
Evidently gave up in disgust and went to school leaving tap wide open
(but not running).

A couple of hours later I had a call from disabled granny alone in the
house with water coming through kitchen ceiling. Bottom line, the shower
room sink drains to a saniflo. After running hot water for some time,
the saniflo tripped out. Once the shower tray had filled up with
undrained hot water from the sink, it overflowed ending up in the
kitchen below.

However, I would have thought that with modern low consumption washing
machines, the volume from a hot wash would not normally overwhelm a
saniflo.


It was the water temperature (60C max), not the volume of water I was
referring to.

Although a quick look at the data sheet suggests that the Saniflo
discharges at a third of the rate of the Grundfos (c.1.2 vs 3.4 litres/s)

No, my point was that (say) three or four litres of hot water going
through a Saniflo would not warm it up enough to cause problems. The
seal materials, etc, will be fine. What caused mine to trip was a
continuous flow from a combi, perhaps five litres a minute at 40 C,
going through it for perhaps an hour. They are not continuous rated, so
actually water temperature might not have been so much the issue (except
that obviously the motor / controller might warm up faster if it is
pumping hot water).

Ah yes I see what you mean. That's going to be a challenge - and not
specified in the specs, at least that I can see. The Grundfos just says
75 °C continuously (90 °C for 30 min.). Wouldn't fancy putting that
'continuously' to the test ;-)

--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
writes:
We want to move our washing machine to a location in the house where draina=
ge will be difficult. We *could* run 50mm pipe round about 8m of walls with=
some AAVs, but it seems more sensible to use a pump, most likely a Grundfo=
s Sololift2 C-3 unless anyone has anything to say about it.

To get the right sizing of outlet pipe, we need to estimate the inflow (too=
small, and the flow will be noisy, too large and the flow will be too slow=
to self-clean).=20

Anyone have any idea even vaguely how fast a modern washing machine pump ch=
ucks water out?

I have a washing machine which is some way from a drain. I couple its
flexible outlet hose to a 15mm copper pipe which runs at floor level
for perhaps 5m, and the copper loops up into a tall standpipe trap
which is under the bath (in a different room), and connected into the
bath drain (separate U-trap).

Washing machine outlets must be raised higher than the highest fill
level in the drum or the water will drain out as the machine tries to
fill, and this is normally done by raising the output pipe at the back
of the machine.

However, in this case I have all the outlet pipework at the machine at
floor level, and I use the loop up into the standpipe u-trap under the
bath as the raised part.

Also note that for a long run of pipe, you really want a smooth walled
pipe which generates much less flow resistance, not a long concertia hose.
As someone else said, it doesn't want to be a fat pipe, as the flow
will be too slow to carry solids away, and they'll end up building up
and creating blockages. The flow out the end of my long pipe is very
fast. For the loop up, I used a proper pipe bender for smooth low
resistance bends. They're joined on with straight releasable JG
speedfit push-fit couplings so it can easily be disassembled for cleaning
if necessary (although it never has been).

I did something similar for a dishwasher, but in that case I used 21mm
solvent weld plastic overflow pipe, because dishwasher detergent is much
more corrosive (copper might have been OK, but I didn't want to chance it).
(Also in that case the outlet is way higher than the dishwasher, but
that dishwasher was designed to cope with pumping up a few meters to a
drain as it has a non-return valve built in, which is slightly unusual.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Friday, 17 June 2016 20:49:56 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I have a washing machine which is some way from a drain. I couple its
flexible outlet hose to a 15mm copper pipe which runs at floor level
for perhaps 5m

That sounds good (as you can tell from dates, this project is moving slowly!).

What kind of connector do use to couple the w/m hose to the 15mm?

newshound wrote:
snip

However, I would have thought that with modern low consumption washing
machines, the volume from a hot wash would not normally overwhelm a saniflo.

Mine has coped fine for 15 years with the occasional high (nominal
90degrees) temperature cotton wash. As you imply, by the time the wash
cyle has finished and the water has gone through the hose into the
residual water in the saniflo I doubt if its temp. rating is exceeded.


--

Roger Hayter