Hello -- first post here after reading for a long time and picking up
lots of valuable advice.

I'm going to completely replace our bathroom over the next few weeks.
Before doing anything internally I was planning to replace the soil
stack. The connection to the toilet is a mess -- years of bodging and
putty and a cheap loo that wobbles and leaks because it hasn't been
screwed to the wall. Here's a picture. Note that I didn't install this!

http://tinypic.com/r/250htp1/6

But... now I find myself thinking how much easier it would be if I
didn't have to get rid of the whole thing. The external pipework is old
but sound.

I don't want to fit a new toilet to a knackered pipe -- but does anyone
have any thoughts about reusing what's there already?

If I could saw/grind off the collar on the pipe and clean up the end
then would a flexible pan connector make a decent seal? Would it help
to use a long connector and push it further down the pipe than normal?

The current (badly fitted) toilet is on a wooden plinth which will come
out before the new toilet goes in. Is there likely to be a problem with
the angle of the connector? Clearly the new one will need to be closer
to the wall so it can be fixed in place. I'd rather not have to have a
bit of wood between the back of the cistern and the wall.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Two small children in the house
mean that the quicker I can finish the project the better -- but if I'm
going to have to bite the bullet and replace the whole thing then I
might as well get on with it.

Thanks in advance.

James

--

James wrote:
Hello -- first post here after reading for a long time and picking up
lots of valuable advice.

I'm going to completely replace our bathroom over the next few weeks.
Before doing anything internally I was planning to replace the soil
stack. The connection to the toilet is a mess -- years of bodging and
putty and a cheap loo that wobbles and leaks because it hasn't been
screwed to the wall. Here's a picture. Note that I didn't install
this!
http://tinypic.com/r/250htp1/6

But... now I find myself thinking how much easier it would be if I
didn't have to get rid of the whole thing. The external pipework is
old but sound.

I don't want to fit a new toilet to a knackered pipe -- but does
anyone have any thoughts about reusing what's there already?

If I could saw/grind off the collar on the pipe and clean up the end
then would a flexible pan connector make a decent seal? Would it help
to use a long connector and push it further down the pipe than normal?

The current (badly fitted) toilet is on a wooden plinth which will
come out before the new toilet goes in. Is there likely to be a
problem with the angle of the connector? Clearly the new one will
need to be closer to the wall so it can be fixed in place. I'd rather
not have to have a bit of wood between the back of the cistern and
the wall.
Any advice would be much appreciated. Two small children in the house
mean that the quicker I can finish the project the better -- but if
I'm going to have to bite the bullet and replace the whole thing then
I might as well get on with it.

Thanks in advance.

Is that a lead waste pipe to a cast iron soil stack?


--
Adam

On 2012-07-03 20:50:57 +0000, ARWadsworth said:


Is that a lead waste pipe to a cast iron soil stack?

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it's lead, although having never
knowingly seen a lead waste pipe I'm happy to be proved wrong.

For some reason that TinyPic link brings up a zoomed-in version of the
photo. If you click on the image then you get a better view.

There's a modern pan connector shoved into what looks like a bit of
plastic pipe, which goes into the collar at a strange angle, then loads
of putty and sealant packed around them all.

I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

James


--

James wrote:
On 2012-07-03 20:50:57 +0000, ARWadsworth said:


Is that a lead waste pipe to a cast iron soil stack?

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it's lead, although having never
knowingly seen a lead waste pipe I'm happy to be proved wrong.

For some reason that TinyPic link brings up a zoomed-in version of the
photo. If you click on the image then you get a better view.

There's a modern pan connector shoved into what looks like a bit of
plastic pipe, which goes into the collar at a strange angle, then
loads of putty and sealant packed around them all.

I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

A photo from outside might give more clues.

Where does the **** pipe go to?

--
Adam

On 03/07/2012 21:50, ARWadsworth wrote:
James wrote:
Hello -- first post here after reading for a long time and picking up
lots of valuable advice.

I'm going to completely replace our bathroom over the next few weeks.
Before doing anything internally I was planning to replace the soil
stack. The connection to the toilet is a mess -- years of bodging and
putty and a cheap loo that wobbles and leaks because it hasn't been
screwed to the wall. Here's a picture. Note that I didn't install
this!
http://tinypic.com/r/250htp1/6

But... now I find myself thinking how much easier it would be if I
didn't have to get rid of the whole thing. The external pipework is
old but sound.

I don't want to fit a new toilet to a knackered pipe -- but does
anyone have any thoughts about reusing what's there already?

If I could saw/grind off the collar on the pipe and clean up the end
then would a flexible pan connector make a decent seal? Would it help
to use a long connector and push it further down the pipe than normal?

The current (badly fitted) toilet is on a wooden plinth which will
come out before the new toilet goes in. Is there likely to be a
problem with the angle of the connector? Clearly the new one will
need to be closer to the wall so it can be fixed in place. I'd rather
not have to have a bit of wood between the back of the cistern and
the wall.
Any advice would be much appreciated. Two small children in the house
mean that the quicker I can finish the project the better -- but if
I'm going to have to bite the bullet and replace the whole thing then
I might as well get on with it.

Thanks in advance.

Is that a lead waste pipe to a cast iron soil stack?


Looks a bit like an iron waste pipe to me; don't recognise the collar at
all. What happens outside? One option might be to fit a new plastic pipe
through the wall to an existing iron stack outside (which is what I
have). Then you can have nice modern unbodged pipework inside the house.

On 2012-07-03 21:14:31 +0000, ARWadsworth said:

James wrote:
On 2012-07-03 20:50:57 +0000, ARWadsworth said:


Is that a lead waste pipe to a cast iron soil stack?

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it's lead, although having never
knowingly seen a lead waste pipe I'm happy to be proved wrong.

A photo from outside might give more clues.

Not much to see out there at the moment, but I'll take one when it's light.

Where does the **** pipe go to?

It goes out through the wall then straight into the soil stack via a
swept tee. The soil stack is outside, just to one side of the pipe.

--

In article om,
newshound writes

Looks a bit like an iron waste pipe to me; don't recognise the collar at
all. What happens outside? One option might be to fit a new plastic pipe
through the wall to an existing iron stack outside (which is what I
have). Then you can have nice modern unbodged pipework inside the house.

Agree it is likely cast iron, I have seen one with a similar collar from
a 60's build, the collar was sealed using lead wool compacted with an
offset compacter/chisel type tool.

I'd cut it off 2" or so from the wall to get a lower entry and use a
flexible pan connector to mate with the inside of the pipe. They're
meant to be self sealing but I'd add sanitary silicone to the
compressible vanes to make sure.

No need to disturb a cast iron stack in good condition, it should last a
century. Hopefully the building is not 99yrs old ;-).
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
On 2012-07-03 20:50:57 +0000, ARWadsworth said:


Is that a lead waste pipe to a cast iron soil stack?

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it's lead, although having never
knowingly seen a lead waste pipe I'm happy to be proved wrong.

For some reason that TinyPic link brings up a zoomed-in version of the
photo. If you click on the image then you get a better view.

There's a modern pan connector shoved into what looks like a bit of
plastic pipe, which goes into the collar at a strange angle, then loads
of putty and sealant packed around them all.

I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

James


Cement asbestos used to be used sometimes for things like rainfall
downpipes in factories and garages, but I have never come across it used
in soil pipes. If it's not magnetic my money would be on (relatively)
modern plastic (usually ABS or PVC). I *think* the sizes for soil pipes
are to a British Standard so modern parts should mix and match. This
isn't true for sink wastes which were a real dogs breakfast when they
came in in the 1960's and 70's. Who was it made the awful brown stuff?

James wrote:
Hello -- first post here after reading for a long time and picking up
lots of valuable advice.

I'm going to completely replace our bathroom over the next few weeks.
Before doing anything internally I was planning to replace the soil
stack. The connection to the toilet is a mess -- years of bodging and
putty and a cheap loo that wobbles and leaks because it hasn't been
screwed to the wall. Here's a picture. Note that I didn't install this!

http://tinypic.com/r/250htp1/6

But... now I find myself thinking how much easier it would be if I
didn't have to get rid of the whole thing. The external pipework is old
but sound.

I don't want to fit a new toilet to a knackered pipe -- but does anyone
have any thoughts about reusing what's there already?

If I could saw/grind off the collar on the pipe and clean up the end
then would a flexible pan connector make a decent seal? Would it help to
use a long connector and push it further down the pipe than normal?

The current (badly fitted) toilet is on a wooden plinth which will come
out before the new toilet goes in. Is there likely to be a problem with
the angle of the connector? Clearly the new one will need to be closer
to the wall so it can be fixed in place. I'd rather not have to have a
bit of wood between the back of the cistern and the wall.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Two small children in the house
mean that the quicker I can finish the project the better -- but if I'm
going to have to bite the bullet and replace the whole thing then I
might as well get on with it.

Thanks in advance.

James

i've cut one vertical back to the floor and fitted a 90 degree univesral
to it

But it was brand new and unencrusted


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

newshound wrote:
On 03/07/2012 21:50, ARWadsworth wrote:
James wrote:
Hello -- first post here after reading for a long time and picking up
lots of valuable advice.

I'm going to completely replace our bathroom over the next few weeks.
Before doing anything internally I was planning to replace the soil
stack. The connection to the toilet is a mess -- years of bodging and
putty and a cheap loo that wobbles and leaks because it hasn't been
screwed to the wall. Here's a picture. Note that I didn't install
this!
http://tinypic.com/r/250htp1/6

But... now I find myself thinking how much easier it would be if I
didn't have to get rid of the whole thing. The external pipework is
old but sound.

I don't want to fit a new toilet to a knackered pipe -- but does
anyone have any thoughts about reusing what's there already?

If I could saw/grind off the collar on the pipe and clean up the end
then would a flexible pan connector make a decent seal? Would it help
to use a long connector and push it further down the pipe than normal?

The current (badly fitted) toilet is on a wooden plinth which will
come out before the new toilet goes in. Is there likely to be a
problem with the angle of the connector? Clearly the new one will
need to be closer to the wall so it can be fixed in place. I'd rather
not have to have a bit of wood between the back of the cistern and
the wall.
Any advice would be much appreciated. Two small children in the house
mean that the quicker I can finish the project the better -- but if
I'm going to have to bite the bullet and replace the whole thing then
I might as well get on with it.

Thanks in advance.

Is that a lead waste pipe to a cast iron soil stack?


Looks a bit like an iron waste pipe to me; don't recognise the collar at
all. What happens outside? One option might be to fit a new plastic pipe
through the wall to an existing iron stack outside (which is what I
have). Then you can have nice modern unbodged pipework inside the house.


Looks like clay to me.

Could be a bugger to cut without shattering


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 22:37:19 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
On 2012-07-03 20:50:57 +0000, ARWadsworth said:


Is that a lead waste pipe to a cast iron soil stack?

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it's lead, although having never
knowingly seen a lead waste pipe I'm happy to be proved wrong.

For some reason that TinyPic link brings up a zoomed-in version of the
photo. If you click on the image then you get a better view.

There's a modern pan connector shoved into what looks like a bit of
plastic pipe, which goes into the collar at a strange angle, then loads
of putty and sealant packed around them all.

I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

James


Cement asbestos used to be used sometimes for things like rainfall
downpipes in factories and garages, but I have never come across it used
in soil pipes. If it's not magnetic my money would be on (relatively)
modern plastic (usually ABS or PVC). I *think* the sizes for soil pipes
are to a British Standard so modern parts should mix and match. This
isn't true for sink wastes which were a real dogs breakfast when they
came in in the 1960's and 70's. Who was it made the awful brown stuff?

My house was council-built c. 1950 and the soil pipe is asbestos cement with
lead through the wall. My main fear, after 60+ years, is that the lead will
start leaking into the cavity.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
....
I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel. Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a *much*
stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:
On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
...
I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel. Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a *much* stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

I think TNPs right though. Looks like a clay pipe to me. Scraping a bit of
paint off would be a good start.

Tim

On 2012-07-03 21:25:06 +0000, James said:

On 2012-07-03 21:14:31 +0000, ARWadsworth said:

A photo from outside might give more clues.

Not much to see out there at the moment, but I'll take one when it's light.

Ok -- here's a couple more pictures of outside:

http://tinypic.com/r/kef4gi/6

http://tinypic.com/r/29zzlvs/6

It's noticeable that there's no rust on the pipework, which I suppose
may suggest it's not cast iron. Look at the top section of the second
picture where the paint has come of. It doesn't look like metal to me,
at least from a distance. Next door's soil stack is identical but has
lost a lot more paint, and that hasn't rusted either.

The white plastic pipe is coming from a Saniflo at the front of the
house and will be removed when I do the bathroom.

As an aside, and for the benefit of future readers searching the
archives for helpful advice about macerating toilets:

If you move into a house with a Saniflo, assume that you'll want to put
it in a skip within the first year of living there.

Anything you read online about them being (quite literally) full of
**** is entirely true. Unless you live in a converted basement, you do
not want a Saniflo, however badly you need another bathroom. Move house
instead.

--

James

On 2012-07-03 21:16:27 +0000, newshound said:

Looks a bit like an iron waste pipe to me; don't recognise the collar
at all. What happens outside? One option might be to fit a new plastic
pipe through the wall to an existing iron stack outside (which is what
I have). Then you can have nice modern unbodged pipework inside the
house.

Thanks for the reply. I've just posted links to another couple of
pictures of the outside -- see my reply to Adam.

Your idea sounds promising, if I can get the old joint apart on the
other side of the wall without damaging it. How did you fit the new
plastic pipe into the old joint?

--
James

On 2012-07-03 21:35:07 +0000, fred said:

Agree it is likely cast iron, I have seen one with a similar collar
from a 60's build, the collar was sealed using lead wool compacted with
an offset compacter/chisel type tool.

I'm still not sure. Other than a magnet, is there a test?

I'd cut it off 2" or so from the wall to get a lower entry and use a
flexible pan connector to mate with the inside of the pipe. They're
meant to be self sealing but I'd add sanitary silicone to the
compressible vanes to make sure.

That's pretty much what I had in mind. How far down the pipe would you
aim to get the flexible connector? Does further = better? I suppose
there's a danger it won't seal properly if it's halfway round a bend
instead of in a straight section.

No need to disturb a cast iron stack in good condition, it should last
a century. Hopefully the building is not 99yrs old ;-).

Probably about 120! But I suspect the first bathroom was installed in
the 1930s...

Thanks for the advice.

--
James

On 2012-07-04 12:16:52 +0000, Tim said:

Nightjar wrote:

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel. Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a
*much* stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

Predictably enough, the "much stronger magnet" that I remember
salvaging from something a couple of years ago has completely
disappeared.

I think TNPs right though. Looks like a clay pipe to me. Scraping a bit of
paint off would be a good start.

Good idea. This is what it looks like under the paint:

http://tinypic.com/r/1986qh/6

It's not cold to the touch. I'm beginning to suspect that Tim and TNP
are right.

If it's clay, how practical is it to cut without damage? Chain-style
pipe cutter?

Failing that, is the outside joint likely to come apart?

--
James

In article 2012070413331143447-info@coukinvalid, James
writes
On 2012-07-03 21:35:07 +0000, fred said:

Agree it is likely cast iron, I have seen one with a similar collar
from a 60's build, the collar was sealed using lead wool compacted with
an offset compacter/chisel type tool.

I'm still not sure. Other than a magnet, is there a test?

I'd cut it off 2" or so from the wall to get a lower entry and use a
flexible pan connector to mate with the inside of the pipe. They're
meant to be self sealing but I'd add sanitary silicone to the
compressible vanes to make sure.

That's pretty much what I had in mind. How far down the pipe would you
aim to get the flexible connector? Does further = better? I suppose
there's a danger it won't seal properly if it's halfway round a bend
instead of in a straight section.

It wont bend until it is through the wall so you have at least 4"
straight there so nowt to worry about.

You want the pan connector to go into the pipe until it bottoms out or
until all the fins are in which could be 2-4" depending on type.

From your other pics it's def a cast iron stack, that straight vent
section at the top may be something lighter.

Other comments about the pipe being brittle and cracking are valid hence
my suggestion to cut it 2" from the wall so that you can have another go
if it breaks. Maybe start further away then re-cut closer once you have
more confidence also noting that the further from the wall the higher
the pipe will be and that it will need to match your new pan. My choice
could be a 110mm angle grinder with cutting disk, mark your cut line,
score round first a mm or 2 with the grinder then go progressively
deeper until it is cut.

Chose the right distance and you can use a straight pan connector, which
is better than flex. Smart move would be to get a few likely bits in
from a place like BES, they're not expensive and it means you have
exactly the right bit to hand no matter what.

See the bottom of this page:

http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/121.asp

Distance from the wall will be set by your pan/cistern combo, close
coupled?

Re comments about breaking into cast iron joints/stacks, just don't go
there unless you have to, there is a high risk of breaking the collar if
you do as it is all so brittle. When you do have to do it, you smash the
ingoing pipe with a hammer, stuff newspaper in the hole to catch the
bits then have to chisel out the stub of the pipe form the socket so not
unsurprising that it often ends in tears.

No need to disturb a cast iron stack in good condition, it should last
a century. Hopefully the building is not 99yrs old ;-).

Probably about 120! But I suspect the first bathroom was installed in
the 1930s...

Thanks for the advice.

You're welcome and good luck!
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

James wrote:
On 2012-07-04 12:16:52 +0000, Tim said:

Nightjar wrote:

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel. Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a
*much* stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

Predictably enough, the "much stronger magnet" that I remember salvaging
from something a couple of years ago has completely disappeared.

I think TNPs right though. Looks like a clay pipe to me. Scraping a
bit of
paint off would be a good start.

Good idea. This is what it looks like under the paint:

http://tinypic.com/r/1986qh/6

It's not cold to the touch. I'm beginning to suspect that Tim and TNP
are right.

If it's clay, how practical is it to cut without damage? Chain-style
pipe cutter?


well a diamond wheel would probably do it.

I used a very non H & S compliant way to cut my pipe: I mounted a
cutting wheel on a bolt and stuck it in a drill chuck and worked away
from inside.

Failing that, is the outside joint likely to come apart?


If its clay you can bust it with a hammer and remove it from wherever.

I'd save that as a Plan B if you break it trying to cut it.




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 04/07/2012 13:26, James wrote:
On 2012-07-03 21:16:27 +0000, newshound said:

Looks a bit like an iron waste pipe to me; don't recognise the collar
at all. What happens outside? One option might be to fit a new plastic
pipe through the wall to an existing iron stack outside (which is what
I have). Then you can have nice modern unbodged pipework inside the
house.

Thanks for the reply. I've just posted links to another couple of
pictures of the outside -- see my reply to Adam.

Your idea sounds promising, if I can get the old joint apart on the
other side of the wall without damaging it. How did you fit the new
plastic pipe into the old joint?

In my case, I only replaced the vertical "vent" pipe (previous owner had
replaced the angled one carrying fluid). As I recall, once I had removed
all the old iron (a bit fiddly as you don't want to crack the junction)
the new pipe "bottomed" on a step in the collar, which makes it fairly
easy. Pack the bottom part of the joint with something like newspaper,
string, baler twine, rope, etc and create a seal using suitable mastic
or silicone. You can finish off the top with silicone, mastic, or even a
cement filet. Since it never really sees positive pressure (even if
there is stuff flowing down) the seal does not have to be brilliant.

James wrote:
On 2012-07-03 21:16:27 +0000, newshound said:

Looks a bit like an iron waste pipe to me; don't recognise the
collar at all. What happens outside? One option might be to fit a
new plastic pipe through the wall to an existing iron stack outside
(which is what I have). Then you can have nice modern unbodged
pipework inside the house.

Thanks for the reply. I've just posted links to another couple of
pictures of the outside -- see my reply to Adam.

Your idea sounds promising, if I can get the old joint apart on the
other side of the wall without damaging it. How did you fit the new
plastic pipe into the old joint?

http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=100_0642.jpg

http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=100_0641.jpg

But it was lead I joined into:-(

--
Adam

On 04/07/2012 13:16, Tim wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
...
I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel. Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a *much* stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

I think TNPs right though. Looks like a clay pipe to me. Scraping a bit of
paint off would be a good start.

Clay would be an odd choice for connecting to an external soil stack.

Colin Bignell

On 2012-07-04 19:02:09 +0000, Nightjar said:

Clay would be an odd choice for connecting to an external soil stack.

Maybe we should have a sweepstake. The suspense is almost making me
look forward to cutting into it.

--
James

James wrote
James said
ARWadsworth wrote

A photo from outside might give more clues.

Not much to see out there at the moment, but I'll take one when it's
light.

Ok -- here's a couple more pictures of outside:

http://tinypic.com/r/kef4gi/6

http://tinypic.com/r/29zzlvs/6

It's noticeable that there's no rust on the pipework, which I suppose may
suggest it's not cast iron.

Nope, cast iron railings don't rust.

Look at the top section of the second picture where the paint has come of.
It doesn't look like metal to me, at least from a distance.

But where the white plastic pipes clamp on
in the first one doesn't look like a clay pipe
as far as doing the hole is concerned.

Cant you just tap it gently with a screw driver etc ?

Next door's soil stack is identical but has lost a lot more paint, and
that hasn't rusted either.

The white plastic pipe is coming from a Saniflo at the front of the house
and will be removed when I do the bathroom.

Then you will be able to see if its cast iron or clay.

Nightjar wrote:
On 04/07/2012 13:16, Tim wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
...
I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel. Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a
*much* stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

I think TNPs right though. Looks like a clay pipe to me. Scraping a
bit of
paint off would be a good start.

Clay would be an odd choice for connecting to an external soil stack.

Not at all. That's what my parents house built in 1953 had: cast stack
and a clay branch ...

Iron is /was expensive and plastic didn't exist,..


Colin Bignell




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 04/07/2012 13:26, James wrote:
On 2012-07-03 21:16:27 +0000, newshound said:

Looks a bit like an iron waste pipe to me; don't recognise the collar
at all. What happens outside? One option might be to fit a new plastic
pipe through the wall to an existing iron stack outside (which is what
I have). Then you can have nice modern unbodged pipework inside the
house.

Thanks for the reply. I've just posted links to another couple of
pictures of the outside -- see my reply to Adam.

Your idea sounds promising, if I can get the old joint apart on the
other side of the wall without damaging it. How did you fit the new
plastic pipe into the old joint?

Personally I'd remove right back to the stack, including the tee. You
could put plastic into the existing flange and pack it or buy a plastic
to cast-iron adapter (I'd assume that even if yours is asbestos, it'd
still be a similar size).

SteveW

On 04/07/2012 20:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 04/07/2012 13:16, Tim wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
...
I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in
its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel. Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a
*much* stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

I think TNPs right though. Looks like a clay pipe to me. Scraping a
bit of
paint off would be a good start.

Clay would be an odd choice for connecting to an external soil stack.

Not at all. That's what my parents house built in 1953 had: cast stack
and a clay branch ...

Iron is /was expensive and plastic didn't exist,..

For 10 years after the war, there was strict rationing of building
materials, which lead to some odd practices.

As for plastic, Germany still has some PVC water and waste pipes that
were installed between 1936 and 1941. They became available in Britain
and America around 1950, when the manufacturing processes had been refined.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:
On 04/07/2012 20:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 04/07/2012 13:16, Tim wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
...
I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in
its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel.
Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a
*much* stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

I think TNPs right though. Looks like a clay pipe to me. Scraping a
bit of
paint off would be a good start.

Clay would be an odd choice for connecting to an external soil stack.

Not at all. That's what my parents house built in 1953 had: cast stack
and a clay branch ...

Iron is /was expensive and plastic didn't exist,..

For 10 years after the war, there was strict rationing of building
materials, which lead to some odd practices.

As for plastic, Germany still has some PVC water and waste pipes that
were installed between 1936 and 1941. They became available in Britain
and America around 1950, when the manufacturing processes had been refined.


I tend to remember PVC as a sixties thing..plastic pakamaks.

50's? airfix toys and thats it.

Styrene

Colin Bignell


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 04/07/2012 23:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 04/07/2012 20:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 04/07/2012 13:16, Tim wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
...
I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but
I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it
doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in
its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel.
Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a
*much* stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

I think TNPs right though. Looks like a clay pipe to me. Scraping a
bit of
paint off would be a good start.

Clay would be an odd choice for connecting to an external soil stack.

Not at all. That's what my parents house built in 1953 had: cast stack
and a clay branch ...

Iron is /was expensive and plastic didn't exist,..

For 10 years after the war, there was strict rationing of building
materials, which lead to some odd practices.

As for plastic, Germany still has some PVC water and waste pipes that
were installed between 1936 and 1941. They became available in Britain
and America around 1950, when the manufacturing processes had been
refined.


I tend to remember PVC as a sixties thing..plastic pakamaks.

It was actually invented in 1872, but it was not until 1912 that anyone
started to look at making it useful and 1926 before they were successful.


50's? airfix toys and thats it.

Styrene

Invented in 1839. Commercially produced by BASF in 1930.

Polyethylene (1935) was a vital part of the allied war effort, providing
insulation for radar equipment. It was probably the first plastic, other
than Bakelite, that most people saw, being used in things like washing
up bowls and plastic brooms in the immediate post-war era.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:
On 04/07/2012 23:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 04/07/2012 20:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 04/07/2012 13:16, Tim wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 03/07/2012 22:07, James wrote:
...
I'd assumed everything except the plastic bit was cast iron, but
I've
just been up and tried to stick a fridge magnet to it, and it
doesn't
stick. It doesn't stick to the soil stack outside either.

Abestos? Or maybe I need a stronger magnet...

You can tell how much heat treatment cast iron has had by changes in
its
magnetic properties, so don't expect it to react like mild steel.
Thick
layers of paint also reduce the grip of most magnets. I suggest a
*much* stronger magnet.

Colin Bignell

I think TNPs right though. Looks like a clay pipe to me. Scraping a
bit of
paint off would be a good start.

Clay would be an odd choice for connecting to an external soil stack.

Not at all. That's what my parents house built in 1953 had: cast stack
and a clay branch ...

Iron is /was expensive and plastic didn't exist,..

For 10 years after the war, there was strict rationing of building
materials, which lead to some odd practices.

As for plastic, Germany still has some PVC water and waste pipes that
were installed between 1936 and 1941. They became available in Britain
and America around 1950, when the manufacturing processes had been
refined.


I tend to remember PVC as a sixties thing..plastic pakamaks.

It was actually invented in 1872, but it was not until 1912 that anyone
started to look at making it useful and 1926 before they were successful.


50's? airfix toys and thats it.

Styrene

Invented in 1839. Commercially produced by BASF in 1930.

Polyethylene (1935) was a vital part of the allied war effort, providing
insulation for radar equipment. It was probably the first plastic, other
than Bakelite, that most people saw, being used in things like washing
up bowls and plastic brooms in the immediate post-war era.

Colin Bignell

Not sure about that..nylon was very early too and MUCH used as an insulator.

As well as making stockings.

--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 05/07/2012 10:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
....
Polyethylene (1935) was a vital part of the allied war effort,
providing insulation for radar equipment. It was probably the first
plastic, other than Bakelite, that most people saw, being used in
things like washing up bowls and plastic brooms in the immediate
post-war era.

Colin Bignell

Not sure about that..nylon was very early too and MUCH used as an
insulator.

As well as making stockings.


Nylon was invented about the same time as polyethylene, but AIUI the
latter had properties that made it particularly suitable as an insulator
when centimetric radar started to be used.

Colin Bignell

On 05/07/2012 15:12, Nightjar wrote:

Nylon was invented about the same time as polyethylene, but AIUI the
latter had properties that made it particularly suitable as an insulator
when centimetric radar started to be used.

Yes, they're both good insulators at DC, but the dielectric properties
are chalk and cheese. Polyethylene and polystyrene are both low-loss
(non-polar) dielectrics at microwave frequencies, whereas the nylons
(polyamines) and PVC are polar and are about two orders of magnitude
more lossy at low frequencies, let alone at microwave.

An early use of polyethylene was for the dielectric in coaxial cables
(and it's still so used, of course).

PTFE (discovered 1938) is an even better dielectric, but I don't think
it was commercialised until after WW2.

--
Andy