On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol to
get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I thought
I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get petrol. It
won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side. But
it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden,
tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the
ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or flying tree
stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window. She took the
dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that case,
though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's the
other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast or heavy
vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a tow
rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox helps
too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to be to pull a caravan safely.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have film.

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol to
get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I thought
I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get petrol. It
won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side. But
it bloody well isn't.


http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge




Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden,
tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the
ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or flying tree
stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window. She took the
dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that case,
though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's the
other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast or heavy
vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a tow
rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox helps
too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull something
that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to be to pull a
caravan safely.

Not all that strong, as you're pulling a rolling load at either moderate
acceleration or at a steady speed. Back of envelope says a maximum of
half a ton total, summing the horizontal and vertical components.

A steady pull of that magnitude is fine. Pulling out a tree stump is a
shock load which is well in excess of what the towbar and its fixings
are designed to take. I'll try it with a Land Rover with a good chassis,
but I'll use a kinetic energy recovery rope to do it. The clue here is
that you managed to snap a towrope and a chain, which says that the peak
loads were way above the design limits of the car and towbar. Luckily, I
live somewhere your car will never be sold.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:29:08 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol
to get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I
thought I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get
petrol. It won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side.
But it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back
garden, tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out
of the ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or
flying tree stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window.
She took the dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that
case, though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's
the other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast
or heavy vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a
tow rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox
helps too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull
something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to
be to pull a caravan safely.


There is a big difference between towing something at a reasonable
speed, and jerking something that doesn't want to move. Overzealous
letting out of a clutch has been known to twist half-shafts and strip
teeth from gears.
--
Davey.

"Davey" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:29:08 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol
to get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I
thought I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get
petrol. It won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side.
But it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back
garden, tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out
of the ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or
flying tree stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window.
She took the dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that
case, though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's
the other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast
or heavy vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a
tow rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox
helps too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull
something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to
be to pull a caravan safely.


There is a big difference between towing something at a reasonable
speed, and jerking something that doesn't want to move. Overzealous
letting out of a clutch has been known to twist half-shafts and strip
teeth from gears.

I actually ripped the splines from a half-shaft in errrr ~65 but nah, that
couldn't happen to the loot, rodders would shirley agree.
I wouldn't mind'em trolling if they made it funny FFS although I actually
believe the loot is as dumbass as his posts.

On Tue, 01 May 2012 19:17:53 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:29:08 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol
to get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I
thought I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get
petrol. It won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side.
But it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back
garden, tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out
of the ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or
flying tree stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window.
She took the dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that
case, though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's
the other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast
or heavy vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a
tow rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox
helps too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull
something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to
be to pull a caravan safely.


There is a big difference between towing something at a reasonable
speed,

You've obviously never seen me drive, I don't do "reasonable speed" unless there's a pandacar about.

and jerking something that doesn't want to move. Overzealous
letting out of a clutch has been known to twist half-shafts and strip
teeth from gears.

It's an automatic, it doesn't overzealously engage.

And I popped the clutch out as fast as the springs would go on my Maestro hundreds of times (to cause wheelspins) and that never damaged it. Mind you Rovers were overengineered.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Why is the front of an aeroplane called a cockpit?
If you have female pilots do you call it a pussypit?

On Tue, 01 May 2012 20:07:34 +0100, brass monkey wrote:


"Davey" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:29:08 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol
to get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I
thought I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get
petrol. It won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side.
But it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back
garden, tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out
of the ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or
flying tree stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window.
She took the dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that
case, though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's
the other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast
or heavy vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a
tow rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox
helps too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull
something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to
be to pull a caravan safely.


There is a big difference between towing something at a reasonable
speed, and jerking something that doesn't want to move. Overzealous
letting out of a clutch has been known to twist half-shafts and strip
teeth from gears.

I actually ripped the splines from a half-shaft in errrr ~65 but nah, that
couldn't happen to the loot, rodders would shirley agree.
I wouldn't mind'em trolling if they made it funny FFS although I actually
believe the loot is as dumbass as his posts.

Grow up.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

There once was a time when all people believed in god and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages. -- Richard Lederer

On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:41:22 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol to
get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I thought
I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get petrol. It
won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side. But
it bloody well isn't.


http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge




Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden,
tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the
ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or flying tree
stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window. She took the
dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that case,
though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's the
other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast or heavy
vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a tow
rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox helps
too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull something
that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to be to pull a
caravan safely.

Not all that strong, as you're pulling a rolling load at either moderate
acceleration or at a steady speed. Back of envelope says a maximum of
half a ton total, summing the horizontal and vertical components.

What about when you put your foot to the floor while towing? You've still got the full power of the engine pulling on the towbar. I suppose I was adding momentum of the car too though, but then again there will be some safety margins I can make use of.

A steady pull of that magnitude is fine. Pulling out a tree stump is a
shock load which is well in excess of what the towbar and its fixings
are designed to take. I'll try it with a Land Rover with a good chassis,
but I'll use a kinetic energy recovery rope to do it. The clue here is
that you managed to snap a towrope and a chain, which says that the peak
loads were way above the design limits of the car and towbar.

No, it says they were above the design limits of the chain, which is a lot thinner than the towbar and fixings.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Anyway I don't usually sell cars - the Honda sale was because I changed from two cars to one when I realised the Golf was reliable enough to only have one. I see no point in getting rid of something which is still functional. If it cannot be repaired or made to go through an MOT at a reasonable cost, it is dismantled for parts and scrap metal.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

"The Ten Commandments contain 297 words.
The Bill of Rights is stated in 463 words.
Lincoln's Gettysburg Address contains 266 words.
A recent federal directive to regulate the price of cabbage contains 26,911 words." -- Atlanta Journal

"Davey" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:29:08 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol
to get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I
thought I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get
petrol. It won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side.
But it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back
garden, tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out
of the ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or
flying tree stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window.
She took the dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that
case, though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's
the other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast
or heavy vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a
tow rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox
helps too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull
something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to
be to pull a caravan safely.


There is a big difference between towing something at a reasonable
speed, and jerking something that doesn't want to move. Overzealous
letting out of a clutch has been known to twist half-shafts and strip
teeth from gears.

It doesn't have a clutch, its an automatic.

On Tue, 01 May 2012 22:30:45 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Davey" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:29:08 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol
to get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I
thought I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get
petrol. It won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side.
But it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back
garden, tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out
of the ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or
flying tree stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window.
She took the dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that
case, though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's
the other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast
or heavy vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a
tow rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox
helps too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull
something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to
be to pull a caravan safely.


There is a big difference between towing something at a reasonable
speed, and jerking something that doesn't want to move. Overzealous
letting out of a clutch has been known to twist half-shafts and strip
teeth from gears.

It doesn't have a clutch, its an automatic.

Manual gearboxes should have been disposed of years ago.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

The reason your job died unexpectedly is because we lost coolant to the firewall and the ether in the net blew up.

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Davey wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Davey wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
newshound wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol
to get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I
thought I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get
petrol. It won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side.
But it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back
garden, tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out
of the ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or
flying tree stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window.
She took the dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that
case, though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's
the other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast
or heavy vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a
tow rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox
helps too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull
something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to
be to pull a caravan safely.


There is a big difference between towing something at a reasonable
speed, and jerking something that doesn't want to move. Overzealous
letting out of a clutch has been known to twist half-shafts and strip
teeth from gears.

It doesn't have a clutch, its an automatic.

Manual gearboxes should have been disposed of years ago.

They were, and we made new ones to replace the ones we disposed of.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 00:11:13 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Davey wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Davey wrote


I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol
to get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I
thought I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get
petrol. It won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side.
But it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back
garden, tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out
of the ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or
flying tree stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window.
She took the dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that
case, though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's
the other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast
or heavy vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a
tow rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox
helps too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull
something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to
be to pull a caravan safely.


There is a big difference between towing something at a reasonable
speed, and jerking something that doesn't want to move. Overzealous
letting out of a clutch has been known to twist half-shafts and strip
teeth from gears.

It doesn't have a clutch, its an automatic.

Manual gearboxes should have been disposed of years ago.

They were, and we made new ones to replace the ones we disposed of.

That almost made me laugh, but not quite.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Seen on a tap in a Finnish washroom:
To stop the drip, turn cock to right.

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
It doesn't have a clutch, its an automatic.
Manual gearboxes should have been disposed of years ago.

I couldn't get my semi-automatic out of the snow until I put
it into manual.

JGH

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdnkpab2ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 00:11:13 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Davey wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Davey wrote


I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol
to get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I
thought I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get
petrol. It won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side.
But it bloody well isn't.

http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge



Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back
garden, tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out
of the ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or
flying tree stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window.
She took the dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that
case, though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's
the other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast
or heavy vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a
tow rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox
helps too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull
something that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to
be to pull a caravan safely.


There is a big difference between towing something at a reasonable
speed, and jerking something that doesn't want to move. Overzealous
letting out of a clutch has been known to twist half-shafts and strip
teeth from gears.

It doesn't have a clutch, its an automatic.

Manual gearboxes should have been disposed of years ago.

They were, and we made new ones to replace the ones we disposed of.

That almost made me laugh, but not quite.

None of the stone around here laughed either.

I don't expect to lose much sleep over that either.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:58:37 +0100, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they kept
going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden, tied
the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the ground.

What was wrong with using explosives?

Jules Richardson wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them,
but they kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden, tied
the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the ground.

What was wrong with using explosives?

The invididual using them in that case.

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:41:22 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:27:02 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 19:58, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:44:47 +0100, Lieutenant Scott
wrote:

I was going to burn down some tree stumps aided by some petrol to
get it going. Having a bottle of white spirit to hand I thought
I'd use that instead of going to the garage to get petrol. It
won't light!!!!

This is the exact product, and it says flammable on the side. But
it bloody well isn't.


http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_...vent%20Ra nge





Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they
kept going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden,
tied the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the
ground. She was particularly concerned that my car (or flying tree
stump) was aiming directly for her kitchen window. She took the
dog for a walk while I did it :-)

Glad it's sorted. Can't have been much of a tree stump in that case,
though (unless it was very rotten below ground). When it's the
other way round, a small tree can stop a surprisingly fast or heavy
vehicle.

It's a 1.9 turbo diesel, and I took a good run at it. Snapped a tow
rope and a chain before getting all 10 out. Automatic gearbox helps
too.


Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull something
that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to be to pull a
caravan safely.

Not all that strong, as you're pulling a rolling load at either moderate
acceleration or at a steady speed. Back of envelope says a maximum of
half a ton total, summing the horizontal and vertical components.

What about when you put your foot to the floor while towing? You've
still got the full power of the engine pulling on the towbar. I suppose
I was adding momentum of the car too though, but then again there will
be some safety margins I can make use of.

Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration. For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

A steady pull of that magnitude is fine. Pulling out a tree stump is a
shock load which is well in excess of what the towbar and its fixings
are designed to take. I'll try it with a Land Rover with a good chassis,
but I'll use a kinetic energy recovery rope to do it. The clue here is
that you managed to snap a towrope and a chain, which says that the peak
loads were way above the design limits of the car and towbar.

No, it says they were above the design limits of the chain, which is a
lot thinner than the towbar and fixings.

Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Huge wrote:
On 2012-05-01, John Williamson wrote:

A steady pull of that magnitude is fine. Pulling out a tree stump is a
shock load which is well in excess of what the towbar and its fixings
are designed to take. I'll try it with a Land Rover with a good chassis,
but I'll use a kinetic energy recovery rope to do it.

Don't.

The tree stump snaps off, the kinetic recovery rope contracts and flings
the stump at the car and does several hundred pounds worth of damage to
it.

Don't ask me how I know.

Chuckle I can guess, but the worst that could happen to mine is that
I'd need a replacement rear door, which is about sixty quid from the
local breaker, and takes ten minutes to fit. The last rear tub I had
fitted cost a couple of hundred and took half a day to fit.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 08:21:07 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:41:22 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:



Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull something
that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to be to pull a
caravan safely.

Not all that strong, as you're pulling a rolling load at either moderate
acceleration or at a steady speed. Back of envelope says a maximum of
half a ton total, summing the horizontal and vertical components.

What about when you put your foot to the floor while towing? You've
still got the full power of the engine pulling on the towbar. I suppose
I was adding momentum of the car too though, but then again there will
be some safety margins I can make use of.

Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration. For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

A steady pull of that magnitude is fine. Pulling out a tree stump is a
shock load which is well in excess of what the towbar and its fixings
are designed to take. I'll try it with a Land Rover with a good chassis,
but I'll use a kinetic energy recovery rope to do it. The clue here is
that you managed to snap a towrope and a chain, which says that the peak
loads were way above the design limits of the car and towbar.

No, it says they were above the design limits of the chain, which is a
lot thinner than the towbar and fixings.

Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the chassis, they're pretty thick.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood on the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

A little girl asked her mother, "Can I go outside and play with the boys?"
Her mother replied, "No, you can't play with the boys, they're too rough."
The little girl thought about it for a few moments and asked, "If I can find a smooth one, can I play with him?"

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

Shrug So you got away with it this time. You've still stressed the
structure well beyond its design limits, and this may cause problems later.
I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

They're fastened to 1mm thick metal, which is why most towbar
installation kits come with load spreading plates or are designed to
attach to specified load bearing points on the car. If they're tubes,
then the walls will be 2 or 3mm thick, generally. If you're lucky, it'll
be drawn tube, otherwise it'll be flat plate rolled into a cylinder and
the edges butt welded.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood
on the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

It's not a flat sheet, it's shaped for strength, often into a box
section, and if you don't believe me, go and have a close look at your
car's structure somewhere like a scrapyard, where all the bits are
visible. The bits where the bolts go through the bodywork are often
doubled or have captive nuts welded to the inside, so may look thicker
than 1mm, but the doubling is only for a few square centimetres.

I've worked on many cars over the last 40 years or so, and I've yet to
see any metal thicker than 1/16" anywhere on the bodywork or chassis on
a normal saloon or estate without a seperate chassis. I've seen some
1/8" thick metal on a Land Rover chassis, but even lorry chassis are
only made of 3 or 4 mm plate, formed to shape for strength.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

LPG conversions of petrol engines that can run on unleaded petrol are
not uncommon, and are usually as reliable as the same engines run on
petrol. Ask your local taxi firms if you want confirmation. If you're
referring to the 30 to 50% increase in fuel consumption, that is
inevitable due to the lower available energy per litre of LPG compared
to petrol. They're still cheaper to run than petrol engines, though, as
LPG is cheaper than petrol. They're not quite as cheap as diesel to run,
but they're often cheaper to buy and convert.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 02:06:07 +0100, Jules Richardson wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:58:37 +0100, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they kept
going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden, tied
the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the ground.

What was wrong with using explosives?

Getting hold of the explosives.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

There are more men than women in mental hospitals - which just goes to show who's driving who crazy.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 19:29:46 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

Shrug So you got away with it this time. You've still stressed the
structure well beyond its design limits, and this may cause problems later.
I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

They're fastened to 1mm thick metal, which is why most towbar
installation kits come with load spreading plates or are designed to
attach to specified load bearing points on the car. If they're tubes,
then the walls will be 2 or 3mm thick, generally. If you're lucky, it'll
be drawn tube, otherwise it'll be flat plate rolled into a cylinder and
the edges butt welded.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood
on the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

It's not a flat sheet, it's shaped for strength, often into a box
section, and if you don't believe me, go and have a close look at your
car's structure somewhere like a scrapyard, where all the bits are
visible. The bits where the bolts go through the bodywork are often
doubled or have captive nuts welded to the inside, so may look thicker
than 1mm, but the doubling is only for a few square centimetres.

I've worked on many cars over the last 40 years or so, and I've yet to
see any metal thicker than 1/16" anywhere on the bodywork or chassis on
a normal saloon or estate without a seperate chassis. I've seen some
1/8" thick metal on a Land Rover chassis, but even lorry chassis are
only made of 3 or 4 mm plate, formed to shape for strength.

So all those "shaped for strength" things make it strong enough. As evidenced by me getting 10 stumps out without losing a towbar.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

LPG conversions of petrol engines that can run on unleaded petrol are
not uncommon, and are usually as reliable as the same engines run on
petrol. Ask your local taxi firms if you want confirmation. If you're
referring to the 30 to 50% increase in fuel consumption, that is
inevitable due to the lower available energy per litre of LPG compared
to petrol. They're still cheaper to run than petrol engines, though, as
LPG is cheaper than petrol. They're not quite as cheap as diesel to run,
but they're often cheaper to buy and convert.

The problem I had was the higher burning temperature of LPG wore out the valve seats (or something like that). The fitter warned me about it and said it would be ok if I used "Valve Saver" fluid. But the mechanism that fed the stuff in wasn't too reliable, so I think that may have worn the engine out. The engine eventually sounded like it was running on 3 cylinders. A Range Rover I bought already converted also sounded the same (it sounded like it was firing on 6 out of the 8 cylinders), and eventually wouldn't start at all.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

When your pet bird sees you reading the newspaper, does it wonder why you're sitting there staring at carpeting?

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdoz0r10ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 08:21:07 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:41:22 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:45:59 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:44:06 +0100
"Lieutenant Scott" wrote:



Remind me not to buy a car from you.

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that a car can't pull something
that hard. Think how tough a towbar and attachments has to be to pull
a
caravan safely.

Not all that strong, as you're pulling a rolling load at either
moderate
acceleration or at a steady speed. Back of envelope says a maximum of
half a ton total, summing the horizontal and vertical components.

What about when you put your foot to the floor while towing? You've
still got the full power of the engine pulling on the towbar. I suppose
I was adding momentum of the car too though, but then again there will
be some safety margins I can make use of.

Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration. For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

A steady pull of that magnitude is fine. Pulling out a tree stump is a
shock load which is well in excess of what the towbar and its fixings
are designed to take. I'll try it with a Land Rover with a good
chassis,
but I'll use a kinetic energy recovery rope to do it. The clue here is
that you managed to snap a towrope and a chain, which says that the
peak
loads were way above the design limits of the car and towbar.

No, it says they were above the design limits of the chain, which is a
lot thinner than the towbar and fixings.

Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood on
the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

Works fine for all the taxis in my town for decades now
and quite a few other cars too.

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo3etk2ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 19:29:46 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

Shrug So you got away with it this time. You've still stressed the
structure well beyond its design limits, and this may cause problems
later.
I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

They're fastened to 1mm thick metal, which is why most towbar
installation kits come with load spreading plates or are designed to
attach to specified load bearing points on the car. If they're tubes,
then the walls will be 2 or 3mm thick, generally. If you're lucky, it'll
be drawn tube, otherwise it'll be flat plate rolled into a cylinder and
the edges butt welded.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood
on the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

It's not a flat sheet, it's shaped for strength, often into a box
section, and if you don't believe me, go and have a close look at your
car's structure somewhere like a scrapyard, where all the bits are
visible. The bits where the bolts go through the bodywork are often
doubled or have captive nuts welded to the inside, so may look thicker
than 1mm, but the doubling is only for a few square centimetres.

I've worked on many cars over the last 40 years or so, and I've yet to
see any metal thicker than 1/16" anywhere on the bodywork or chassis on
a normal saloon or estate without a seperate chassis. I've seen some
1/8" thick metal on a Land Rover chassis, but even lorry chassis are
only made of 3 or 4 mm plate, formed to shape for strength.

So all those "shaped for strength" things make it strong enough. As
evidenced by me getting 10 stumps out without losing a towbar.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

LPG conversions of petrol engines that can run on unleaded petrol are
not uncommon, and are usually as reliable as the same engines run on
petrol. Ask your local taxi firms if you want confirmation. If you're
referring to the 30 to 50% increase in fuel consumption, that is
inevitable due to the lower available energy per litre of LPG compared
to petrol. They're still cheaper to run than petrol engines, though, as
LPG is cheaper than petrol. They're not quite as cheap as diesel to run,
but they're often cheaper to buy and convert.

The problem I had was the higher burning temperature of LPG wore out the
valve seats (or something like that). The fitter warned me about it and
said it would be ok if I used "Valve Saver" fluid. But the mechanism that
fed the stuff in wasn't too reliable, so I think that may have worn the
engine out. The engine eventually sounded like it was running on 3
cylinders. A Range Rover I bought already converted also sounded the same
(it sounded like it was firing on 6 out of the 8 cylinders), and
eventually wouldn't start at all.

Doesn't happen with our taxis.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 20:45:48 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdoz0r10ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 08:21:07 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:41:22 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:



Not all that strong, as you're pulling a rolling load at either
moderate
acceleration or at a steady speed. Back of envelope says a maximum of
half a ton total, summing the horizontal and vertical components.

What about when you put your foot to the floor while towing? You've
still got the full power of the engine pulling on the towbar. I suppose
I was adding momentum of the car too though, but then again there will
be some safety margins I can make use of.

Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration. For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

A steady pull of that magnitude is fine. Pulling out a tree stump is a
shock load which is well in excess of what the towbar and its fixings
are designed to take. I'll try it with a Land Rover with a good
chassis,
but I'll use a kinetic energy recovery rope to do it. The clue here is
that you managed to snap a towrope and a chain, which says that the
peak
loads were way above the design limits of the car and towbar.

No, it says they were above the design limits of the chain, which is a
lot thinner than the towbar and fixings.

Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood on
the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

Works fine for all the taxis in my town for decades now
and quite a few other cars too.

According to my LPG fitter, certain Honda engines have "softer valve seats" (where the word "seats" could have been something else).

It was a 1999 Honda CRV 2 litre petrol.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

My childbirth instructor says it's not pain I'll feel during labour, but pressure. Is she right?
Yes, in the same way that a tornado might be called an air current.

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo5zaggytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 20:45:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdoz0r10ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 08:21:07 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:41:22 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:



Not all that strong, as you're pulling a rolling load at either
moderate
acceleration or at a steady speed. Back of envelope says a maximum of
half a ton total, summing the horizontal and vertical components.

What about when you put your foot to the floor while towing? You've
still got the full power of the engine pulling on the towbar. I
suppose
I was adding momentum of the car too though, but then again there will
be some safety margins I can make use of.

Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration. For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the
deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

A steady pull of that magnitude is fine. Pulling out a tree stump is
a
shock load which is well in excess of what the towbar and its fixings
are designed to take. I'll try it with a Land Rover with a good
chassis,
but I'll use a kinetic energy recovery rope to do it. The clue here
is
that you managed to snap a towrope and a chain, which says that the
peak
loads were way above the design limits of the car and towbar.

No, it says they were above the design limits of the chain, which is a
lot thinner than the towbar and fixings.

Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood
on
the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

Works fine for all the taxis in my town for decades now
and quite a few other cars too.

According to my LPG fitter, certain Honda engines have "softer valve
seats" (where the word "seats" could have been something else).

It was a 1999 Honda CRV 2 litre petrol.

So your original should have said 'Some Honda engines', not 'Petrol engines'

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 20:45:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdoz0r10ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 08:21:07 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 18:41:22 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:



Not all that strong, as you're pulling a rolling load at either
moderate
acceleration or at a steady speed. Back of envelope says a maximum of
half a ton total, summing the horizontal and vertical components.

What about when you put your foot to the floor while towing? You've
still got the full power of the engine pulling on the towbar. I
suppose
I was adding momentum of the car too though, but then again there will
be some safety margins I can make use of.

Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration. For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the
deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

A steady pull of that magnitude is fine. Pulling out a tree stump
is a
shock load which is well in excess of what the towbar and its fixings
are designed to take. I'll try it with a Land Rover with a good
chassis,
but I'll use a kinetic energy recovery rope to do it. The clue
here is
that you managed to snap a towrope and a chain, which says that the
peak
loads were way above the design limits of the car and towbar.

No, it says they were above the design limits of the chain, which is a
lot thinner than the towbar and fixings.

Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example
stood on
the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

Luckily, I live somewhere your car will never be sold.

Are you sure? I sold a Honda CRV to a guy in London.

Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

Works fine for all the taxis in my town for decades now
and quite a few other cars too.

According to my LPG fitter, certain Honda engines have "softer valve
seats" (where the word "seats" could have been something else).

It was a 1999 Honda CRV 2 litre petrol.

I find that a little odd.

All engines capable of using unleaded petrol should be able to use LPG
without any problems. All Honda engines made after 1985 are compatible
with unleaded. Soft valve seats are normally only found on vehicles
which use the lead in the petrol as a lubricant for the unhardened
valves and seats. Replacing the valve seats is often done when the
cylinder head is off for other reasons.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:17:58 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo5zaggytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 20:45:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdoz0r10ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 08:21:07 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:





Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration. For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the
deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

Well the tow bar is still on the car.


Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood
on
the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.


Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

Works fine for all the taxis in my town for decades now
and quite a few other cars too.

According to my LPG fitter, certain Honda engines have "softer valve
seats" (where the word "seats" could have been something else).

It was a 1999 Honda CRV 2 litre petrol.

So your original should have said 'Some Honda engines', not 'Petrol engines'

I saw it happen to my Range Rover, and I've heard people have similar problems with several other makes.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Although I can accept talking scarecrows, lions and great wizards of emerald cities, I find it hard to believe there is no paperwork involved when your house lands on a witch.
-- Dave James

On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:30:17 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 20:45:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdoz0r10ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 08:21:07 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:





Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration. For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the
deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

Well the tow bar is still on the car.


Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example
stood on
the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.


Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

Works fine for all the taxis in my town for decades now
and quite a few other cars too.

According to my LPG fitter, certain Honda engines have "softer valve
seats" (where the word "seats" could have been something else).

It was a 1999 Honda CRV 2 litre petrol.

I find that a little odd.

All engines capable of using unleaded petrol should be able to use LPG
without any problems. All Honda engines made after 1985 are compatible
with unleaded. Soft valve seats are normally only found on vehicles
which use the lead in the petrol as a lubricant for the unhardened
valves and seats. Replacing the valve seats is often done when the
cylinder head is off for other reasons.

I was told it was due to the higher burning temperature of the LPG. In fact the first fitter I asked refused to do it at all.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

A mistake is evidence that someone has tried to do something.

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I was told it was due to the higher burning temperature of the LPG. In
fact the first fitter I asked refused to do it at all.

Gives up

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 00:42:24 +0100, jgharston wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
It doesn't have a clutch, its an automatic.
Manual gearboxes should have been disposed of years ago.

I couldn't get my semi-automatic out of the snow until I put
it into manual.

I've never driven a "semi-automatic", but I've found my automatic Golf to be very good in the snow. It is less likely to wheelspin as it controls the power evenly.

I did once get stuck in some deep snow, but by rocking it back and forth I broke free. Rocking is much easier in an automatic, as you can select forward/reverse very rapidly.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

The only differences between lawyers and prostitutes are that prostitutes are generally better looking and more honest about how they make a living.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:01:54 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo3etk2ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 19:29:46 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

Shrug So you got away with it this time. You've still stressed the
structure well beyond its design limits, and this may cause problems
later.
I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

They're fastened to 1mm thick metal, which is why most towbar
installation kits come with load spreading plates or are designed to
attach to specified load bearing points on the car. If they're tubes,
then the walls will be 2 or 3mm thick, generally. If you're lucky, it'll
be drawn tube, otherwise it'll be flat plate rolled into a cylinder and
the edges butt welded.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood
on the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

It's not a flat sheet, it's shaped for strength, often into a box
section, and if you don't believe me, go and have a close look at your
car's structure somewhere like a scrapyard, where all the bits are
visible. The bits where the bolts go through the bodywork are often
doubled or have captive nuts welded to the inside, so may look thicker
than 1mm, but the doubling is only for a few square centimetres.

I've worked on many cars over the last 40 years or so, and I've yet to
see any metal thicker than 1/16" anywhere on the bodywork or chassis on
a normal saloon or estate without a seperate chassis. I've seen some
1/8" thick metal on a Land Rover chassis, but even lorry chassis are
only made of 3 or 4 mm plate, formed to shape for strength.

So all those "shaped for strength" things make it strong enough. As
evidenced by me getting 10 stumps out without losing a towbar.


Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

LPG conversions of petrol engines that can run on unleaded petrol are
not uncommon, and are usually as reliable as the same engines run on
petrol. Ask your local taxi firms if you want confirmation. If you're
referring to the 30 to 50% increase in fuel consumption, that is
inevitable due to the lower available energy per litre of LPG compared
to petrol. They're still cheaper to run than petrol engines, though, as
LPG is cheaper than petrol. They're not quite as cheap as diesel to run,
but they're often cheaper to buy and convert.

The problem I had was the higher burning temperature of LPG wore out the
valve seats (or something like that). The fitter warned me about it and
said it would be ok if I used "Valve Saver" fluid. But the mechanism that
fed the stuff in wasn't too reliable, so I think that may have worn the
engine out. The engine eventually sounded like it was running on 3
cylinders. A Range Rover I bought already converted also sounded the same
(it sounded like it was firing on 6 out of the 8 cylinders), and
eventually wouldn't start at all.

Doesn't happen with our taxis.

What make and model are they?


--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

From an unknown aircraft waiting in a very long takeoff queue: "I'm ****ing bored!"
Ground Traffic Control: "Last aircraft transmitting, identify yourself immediately!"
Unknown aircraft: "I said I was ****ing bored, not ****ing stupid!"

On Wed, 02 May 2012 22:02:21 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I was told it was due to the higher burning temperature of the LPG. In
fact the first fitter I asked refused to do it at all.

Gives up

Well I don't know the real reason for the engine failure, I'm just telling you what they told me.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Yesterday scientists in the USA revealed that beer contains small traces of female hormones.
To prove their theory they fed 100 men 12 pints of beer and observed that 100% of them started talking nonsense and couldn't drive.

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo28jlvytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 02:06:07 +0100, Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:58:37 +0100, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they kept
going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden, tied
the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the ground.

What was wrong with using explosives?

Getting hold of the explosives.

Hey, that's your funniest line, keep it up.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 22:32:38 +0100, brass monkey wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo28jlvytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 02:06:07 +0100, Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:58:37 +0100, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they kept
going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden, tied
the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the ground.

What was wrong with using explosives?

Getting hold of the explosives.

Hey, that's your funniest line, keep it up.

What was funny about it?


--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

I got invited to a Muslim party the other night.
It was the fastest game of pass the parcel I've even seen!

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdpablilytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 22:32:38 +0100, brass monkey wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo28jlvytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 02:06:07 +0100, Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:58:37 +0100, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
Sorted.

I bought a jerry can of petrol and tried burning them, but they kept
going out. So I took the easy option.

To my neighbour's horror, I reversed the car into the back garden,
tied
the tree stumps to the towbar, and yanked them out of the ground.

What was wrong with using explosives?

Getting hold of the explosives.

Hey, that's your funniest line, keep it up.

What was funny about it?

Never mind.

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo8mxrwytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:17:58 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo5zaggytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 20:45:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdoz0r10ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 08:21:07 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:





Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work
out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration.
For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the
deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are
on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

Well the tow bar is still on the car.


Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are
fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a
chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for
doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to
the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood
on
the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.


Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to
use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

Works fine for all the taxis in my town for decades now
and quite a few other cars too.

According to my LPG fitter, certain Honda engines have "softer valve
seats" (where the word "seats" could have been something else).

It was a 1999 Honda CRV 2 litre petrol.

So your original should have said 'Some Honda engines', not 'Petrol
engines'

I saw it happen to my Range Rover, and I've heard people have similar
problems with several other makes.

All of our taxis have been using it for decades fine.

Mate of mine who is now dead did too, in a Jap wagon.

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo8ojpuytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:30:17 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 20:45:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdoz0r10ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 08:21:07 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:





Work out the torque at the driving wheels, which will let you work
out
the acceleration, then compare that with the force required to
decelerate the mass of the car at about ten times that accleration.
For
most cars, maximum acceleration is well under 1G, while the
deceleration
when you're snatching a stump is at least 5G. The safety margins are
on
the order of 100%, not 500%.

Well the tow bar is still on the car.


Then you must be driving a tank. The towbars on most cars are
fastened
to metal which is less than 1mm thick. Even my Land Rover has a
chassis
which is less than 3mm thick at the point of attachment, and that's
reinforced for kinetic energy recovery, which is a posh name for
doing
to bogged down vehicles what you were doing to trees.

I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to
the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example
stood on
the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.


Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to
use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

Works fine for all the taxis in my town for decades now
and quite a few other cars too.

According to my LPG fitter, certain Honda engines have "softer valve
seats" (where the word "seats" could have been something else).

It was a 1999 Honda CRV 2 litre petrol.

I find that a little odd.

All engines capable of using unleaded petrol should be able to use LPG
without any problems. All Honda engines made after 1985 are compatible
with unleaded. Soft valve seats are normally only found on vehicles
which use the lead in the petrol as a lubricant for the unhardened
valves and seats. Replacing the valve seats is often done when the
cylinder head is off for other reasons.

I was told it was due to the higher burning temperature of the LPG. In
fact the first fitter I asked refused to do it at all.

But presumably he doesn't refuse to do it to all cars,
so its likely that just that car wasn't suited to it.

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo87lz7ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:01:54 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo3etk2ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 19:29:46 +0100, John Williamson
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

Well the tow bar is still on the car.

Shrug So you got away with it this time. You've still stressed the
structure well beyond its design limits, and this may cause problems
later.
I'm thinking of the steel tubes which run from the towbar itself to
the
chassis, they're pretty thick.

They're fastened to 1mm thick metal, which is why most towbar
installation kits come with load spreading plates or are designed to
attach to specified load bearing points on the car. If they're tubes,
then the walls will be 2 or 3mm thick, generally. If you're lucky,
it'll
be drawn tube, otherwise it'll be flat plate rolled into a cylinder and
the edges butt welded.

I can't believe those are fastened to metal 1mm thick, that would bend
with the weight of the towbar, and definitely if you for example stood
on the towbar, which simply doesn't happen.

It's not a flat sheet, it's shaped for strength, often into a box
section, and if you don't believe me, go and have a close look at your
car's structure somewhere like a scrapyard, where all the bits are
visible. The bits where the bolts go through the bodywork are often
doubled or have captive nuts welded to the inside, so may look thicker
than 1mm, but the doubling is only for a few square centimetres.

I've worked on many cars over the last 40 years or so, and I've yet to
see any metal thicker than 1/16" anywhere on the bodywork or chassis on
a normal saloon or estate without a seperate chassis. I've seen some
1/8" thick metal on a Land Rover chassis, but even lorry chassis are
only made of 3 or 4 mm plate, formed to shape for strength.

So all those "shaped for strength" things make it strong enough. As
evidenced by me getting 10 stumps out without losing a towbar.


Still safe. I left London a decade ago. London's also big enough that
you can always find a fool who'll buy anything you want to sell. ;-)

It had LPG conversion. Don't. Petrol engines were not designed to
use
LPG, and shouldn't be made to do so.

LPG conversions of petrol engines that can run on unleaded petrol are
not uncommon, and are usually as reliable as the same engines run on
petrol. Ask your local taxi firms if you want confirmation. If you're
referring to the 30 to 50% increase in fuel consumption, that is
inevitable due to the lower available energy per litre of LPG compared
to petrol. They're still cheaper to run than petrol engines, though, as
LPG is cheaper than petrol. They're not quite as cheap as diesel to
run,
but they're often cheaper to buy and convert.

The problem I had was the higher burning temperature of LPG wore out the
valve seats (or something like that). The fitter warned me about it and
said it would be ok if I used "Valve Saver" fluid. But the mechanism
that
fed the stuff in wasn't too reliable, so I think that may have worn the
engine out. The engine eventually sounded like it was running on 3
cylinders. A Range Rover I bought already converted also sounded the
same
(it sounded like it was firing on 6 out of the 8 cylinders), and
eventually wouldn't start at all.

Doesn't happen with our taxis.

What make and model are they?

Mostly Ford Falcons and close.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 22:40:45 +0100, brass monkey wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdpablilytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 22:32:38 +0100, brass monkey wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo28jlvytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 02:06:07 +0100, Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:58:37 +0100, Lieutenant Scott wrote:


What was wrong with using explosives?

Getting hold of the explosives.

Hey, that's your funniest line, keep it up.

What was funny about it?

Never mind.

I shall continue to assume you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

What is the difference between a 69 and driving in the fog?
When driving in the fog, you can't see the asshole in front of you.

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdpcrn18ytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 22:40:45 +0100, brass monkey wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdpablilytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 22:32:38 +0100, brass monkey wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.wdo28jlvytk5n5@i7-940...
On Wed, 02 May 2012 02:06:07 +0100, Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:58:37 +0100, Lieutenant Scott wrote:


What was wrong with using explosives?

Getting hold of the explosives.

Hey, that's your funniest line, keep it up.

What was funny about it?

Never mind.

I shall continue to assume you don't know what the **** you're talking
about.

I'm sure we'll all do the same.
Hey, hows about dragging the plonker into uk.rec.driving i'm sure you could
learn a lot about trolling.