I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which would
consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google suggest
that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment levels so I
wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater style" to cover the top
and extend down the sides for a few inches or whether I should consider a
different metal like an aluminium alloy.

Of course I could just contract the work out to someone to do properly but
I'd like to have a go myself.

Any suggestions?

Tim

In message , Tim Downie
writes
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which
would consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment levels
so I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater style" to
cover the top and extend down the sides for a few inches or whether I
should consider a different metal like an aluminium alloy.

Of course I could just contract the work out to someone to do properly
but I'd like to have a go myself.

Any suggestions?

You could go with the BT solution to telegraph pole tops and use an
inverted V.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On 1 July, 20:45, "Tim Downie" wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which would
consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google suggest
that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment levels so I
wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater style" to cover the top
and extend down the sides for a few inches or whether I should consider a
different metal like an aluminium alloy.

Copper would be fairly easy, as long as you have a suitable wooden
former. Wickes sell round balls for the top of newel posts that would
be ideal, £9 IIRC). You'd need to anneal the copper a few times so a
blowtorch would be handy. Any model engineering supplier can sell you
a suitable piece of copper.

Tim Downie wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which would
consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment levels
so I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater style" to
cover the top and extend down the sides for a few inches or whether I
should consider a different metal like an aluminium alloy.

Of course I could just contract the work out to someone to do properly
but I'd like to have a go myself.

Any suggestions?

Tim

Copper? You could solder/braze it.

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which would
consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment levels so
I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater style" to cover the
top and extend down the sides for a few inches or whether I should
consider a different metal like an aluminium alloy.

Of course I could just contract the work out to someone to do properly but
I'd like to have a go myself.

Any suggestions?


http://www.hooverfence.com/wood/postcaps/index.htm

Tim Downie wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which would
consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment levels
so I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater style" to
cover the top and extend down the sides for a few inches or whether I
should consider a different metal like an aluminium alloy.

buy an aluminium mixing bowl.

Of course I could just contract the work out to someone to do properly
but I'd like to have a go myself.

Any suggestions?

Tim

pcb1962 wrote:
On 1 July, 20:45, "Tim Downie" wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which
would consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment
levels so I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater
style" to cover the top and extend down the sides for a few inches
or whether I should consider a different metal like an aluminium
alloy.

Copper would be fairly easy, as long as you have a suitable wooden
former. Wickes sell round balls for the top of newel posts that would
be ideal, £9 IIRC). You'd need to anneal the copper a few times so a
blowtorch would be handy. Any model engineering supplier can sell you
a suitable piece of copper.

That sounds like a good idea. Ta.

Tim

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Tim Downie
writes
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which
would consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment
levels so I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater
style" to cover the top and extend down the sides for a few inches
or whether I should consider a different metal like an aluminium
alloy.

Of course I could just contract the work out to someone to do
properly but I'd like to have a go myself.

Any suggestions?

You could go with the BT solution to telegraph pole tops and use an
inverted V.

Nah, for sentimental reasons it has to be domed.

Tim

On 1 July, 20:45, "Tim Downie" wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which would
consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

Copper. Easiest to work, patinates nicely afterwards.

Tools are a variety of wooden, plastic or rubber mallets and also a
mix of treestumps with hollows in, or else sand-filled bags. Most
importantly, some sort of gas torch (or cooker) for annealing. You
need something with these tools, but they're not fussy and it's easy
to improvise. A cheap wooden egg mallet, or just a home made "lump on
a stick".

Source metal is scrapyard immersion heaters, or other scrap copper.

Web searching should give you techniques, otherwise any '50s school
metalwork handbook. Look for "sinking" and "doming"

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
pcb1962 wrote:
On 1 July, 20:45, "Tim Downie" wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which
would consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment
levels so I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater
style" to cover the top and extend down the sides for a few inches
or whether I should consider a different metal like an aluminium
alloy.

Copper would be fairly easy, as long as you have a suitable wooden
former. Wickes sell round balls for the top of newel posts that would
be ideal, £9 IIRC). You'd need to anneal the copper a few times so a
blowtorch would be handy. Any model engineering supplier can sell you
a suitable piece of copper.

That sounds like a good idea. Ta.

Tim

Long time since school metalwork, but I would think making a ball from sheet
would be v difficult. Think you would need to make two 'bowls' and solder
them together. Also, the vandal and tea-leaf, dimension would mean that the
post has to be away from anywhere it can be seen. Even then, leaving it
hollow is inviting it to be squashed, however careful you try to be.

Using the wooden post top as a pattern, you might be able to cast one from
solid lead if you have a safe spot.

Think we've covered post tops before. I made wooden caps for posts on a
fence I made. Screwed them on with stainless. The local kids just split the
wood off with a screwdriver. Didn't seem worth the bother of trying again.

S

Spamlet wrote:
"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
pcb1962 wrote:
On 1 July, 20:45, "Tim Downie" wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which
would consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment
levels so I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater
style" to cover the top and extend down the sides for a few inches
or whether I should consider a different metal like an aluminium
alloy.
Copper would be fairly easy, as long as you have a suitable wooden
former. Wickes sell round balls for the top of newel posts that would
be ideal, £9 IIRC). You'd need to anneal the copper a few times so a
blowtorch would be handy. Any model engineering supplier can sell you
a suitable piece of copper.
That sounds like a good idea. Ta.

Tim

Long time since school metalwork, but I would think making a ball from sheet
would be v difficult. Think you would need to make two 'bowls' and solder
them together. Also, the vandal and tea-leaf, dimension would mean that the
post has to be away from anywhere it can be seen. Even then, leaving it
hollow is inviting it to be squashed, however careful you try to be.

Using the wooden post top as a pattern, you might be able to cast one from
solid lead if you have a safe spot.

Think we've covered post tops before. I made wooden caps for posts on a
fence I made. Screwed them on with stainless. The local kids just split the
wood off with a screwdriver. Didn't seem worth the bother of trying again.

S


here is a useful company to ask

http://www.metalspinningdirect.com/

Spamlet wrote:
"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
pcb1962 wrote:
On 1 July, 20:45, "Tim Downie" wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which
would consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick
google suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills &
equipment levels so I wondered if either I can work the lead
"panel beater style" to cover the top and extend down the sides
for a few inches or whether I should consider a different metal
like an aluminium alloy.

Copper would be fairly easy, as long as you have a suitable wooden
former. Wickes sell round balls for the top of newel posts that
would be ideal, £9 IIRC). You'd need to anneal the copper a few
times so a blowtorch would be handy. Any model engineering supplier
can sell you a suitable piece of copper.

That sounds like a good idea. Ta.

Tim

Long time since school metalwork, but I would think making a ball
from sheet would be v difficult.

But I'm not making a ball, I just want a metal covered domed top to the
post, a hemisphere.

Think you would need to make two
'bowls' and solder them together. Also, the vandal and tea-leaf,
dimension would mean that the post has to be away from anywhere it
can be seen. Even then, leaving it hollow is inviting it to be
squashed, however careful you try to be.

Well yes, but then I wasn't planning on leaving it hollow. As you say, it
would make it too easy to dent.

Tim

On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 05:40:44 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

Half a copper ball-cock ball?

6" copper float about a tenner from BES, 8" also available.

Good bit of lateral thinking, bit big for a the top fo 4" post but

Probably easier to panel-beat an attractive dimpled finish into an
existing hemisphere than try and form a hemisphere from flat sheet.

I agree, I'm no panel beater but just thinking about how a flat sheet
of metal will need to stretch and bend to form a hemisphere is
non-trivial. One might be able to get a half hemisphere without a
skirt fairly easily but a full one which self forms to a skirt would
be much harder.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Jul 2, 6:12*pm, Owain wrote:
On 2 July, 16:15, "Dave Liquorice" *wrote:

Half a copper ball-cock ball?
Good bit of lateral thinking, bit big for a the top fo 4" post but

The second link has 4.5"

It might be easier to change the size of the post ...

Owain

If its a 4x4 post, thats 5.6" diagonal


NT

On Jul 3, 12:23 am, "Tim Downie" wrote:

But I'm not making a ball, I just want a metal covered domed top to the
post, a hemisphere.

I have a collection of chrome plated copper teapots that I bought for
a couple of dollars each, since people don't like using copper teapots
any more. Perhaps you can find something like that in junkshops. Or
copper ornaments that you can chop up.

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Jul 3, 12:23 am, "Tim Downie" wrote:

But I'm not making a ball, I just want a metal covered domed top to the
post, a hemisphere.

I have a collection of chrome plated copper teapots that I bought for
a couple of dollars each, since people don't like using copper teapots
any more. Perhaps you can find something like that in junkshops. Or
copper ornaments that you can chop up.

He needs an old hot water cylinder, lots of copper sheet.
They can be found at scrap yards or where new combi-boilers are being
fitted.

Tim Downie wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which would
consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment levels
so I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater style" to
cover the top and extend down the sides for a few inches or whether I
should consider a different metal like an aluminium alloy.

Of course I could just contract the work out to someone to do properly
but I'd like to have a go myself.

Any suggestions?

Tim

Get a stainless steel bowl of the right size and hammer into into the
shape that you want.

R

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 1 July, 20:45, "Tim Downie" wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which would
consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

Half a copper ball-cock ball?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2434355...554429/detail/

6" copper float about a tenner from BES, 8" also available.
http://www.bes.co.uk/product/120~PL~...r-Floats-.html

Other sizes here
http://www.mytub.co.uk/shop_display_...all%20F loats

Probably easier to panel-beat an attractive dimpled finish into an
existing hemisphere than try and form a hemisphere from flat sheet.

Owain

You still need a good hard and smooth anvil of the right curvature to get a
decent finish - and polish the face of the hammers first. It is not that
difficult to form a bowl from sheet, but you need to soften the copper
regularly with a torch, and have a sandbag or similar to get the initial
shape with hard blows from a round headed wooden hammer. Then you have a
long but satisfying bout of 'panishing' tapping to do, to get the final
shape and hardness.

S

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 05:40:44 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

Half a copper ball-cock ball?

6" copper float about a tenner from BES, 8" also available.

Good bit of lateral thinking, bit big for a the top fo 4" post but

Probably easier to panel-beat an attractive dimpled finish into an
existing hemisphere than try and form a hemisphere from flat sheet.

I agree, I'm no panel beater but just thinking about how a flat sheet
of metal will need to stretch and bend to form a hemisphere is
non-trivial. One might be able to get a half hemisphere without a
skirt fairly easily but a full one which self forms to a skirt would
be much harder.
--
Cheers
Dave.

Just reminded me of our old 'Ericson' tester: basically a metal ball pushed
into sheet metal to test it's ductility. We had stacks of little domed
plates... If you have a decent hydraulic jack or press and a metal ball and
ring to push it through you might be able to cold form your shape. Be bold:
you could even do something like jacking the car up with your plate and a
former between. You could hollow a block of wood and use your fence post
wooden ball, and the jack to push it in. Lots of uses for jacks...

If you are knocking up from scratch, the rim is the bit you are holding.
Finish it last, then cut off the excess with snips (or snips, then finish:
depending on how hard it gets). If memory serves that is...

S

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Jul 3, 12:23 am, "Tim Downie" wrote:

But I'm not making a ball, I just want a metal covered domed top to the
post, a hemisphere.

I have a collection of chrome plated copper teapots that I bought for
a couple of dollars each, since people don't like using copper teapots
any more. Perhaps you can find something like that in junkshops. Or
copper ornaments that you can chop up.

Or just pour lead into and tip out when cool... Any non-melty bowl shape
will do.

S

On 4 July, 01:55, "Spamlet" wrote:

You still need a good hard and smooth anvil of the right curvature to get a
decent finish - and polish the face of the hammers first. *

You don't desperately need either of these for this - work it with a
mallet into a bag. This will also work-harden it adequately, so won't
need a separate planishing step. As it's for outdoor use, not
polishing, there's no need to plansih it for the benefit of the
surface finish. Although you would need hammers for planishing, the
shaping is best done with softer mallets.

On 4 July, 01:02, Roger Dewhurst wrote:

Get a stainless steel bowl of the right size and hammer into into the
shape that you want.

Not the easiest job, to work stainless like that!

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 4 July, 01:02, Roger Dewhurst wrote:

Get a stainless steel bowl of the right size and hammer into into the
shape that you want.

Not the easiest job, to work stainless like that!

In the end, I got some roofing lead and have battered it into shape. Apart
freom needing a little trimming up, it doesn't look too bad. Now I need to
make sure that it stays there on top of the post. (It will be accessible to
the public). Any suggestions as to what kind of glue would be best?

Tim

Tim Downie wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 4 July, 01:02, Roger Dewhurst wrote:

Get a stainless steel bowl of the right size and hammer into into the
shape that you want.

Not the easiest job, to work stainless like that!

In the end, I got some roofing lead and have battered it into shape.
Apart freom needing a little trimming up, it doesn't look too bad. Now
I need to make sure that it stays there on top of the post. (It will be
accessible to the public). Any suggestions as to what kind of glue
would be best?

Tim
no glue at all. Nail the side with galv roof nails or similar.

Very few glues work in regimes of vastly variable humidity. Those posts
will MOVE.

Something rubbery and gap filling is possible, but that's about all.

Hot glue maybe.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:09:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 4 July, 01:02, Roger Dewhurst wrote:

Get a stainless steel bowl of the right size and hammer into into the
shape that you want.

Not the easiest job, to work stainless like that!

In the end, I got some roofing lead and have battered it into shape.
Apart freom needing a little trimming up, it doesn't look too bad. Now
I need to make sure that it stays there on top of the post. (It will be
accessible to the public). Any suggestions as to what kind of glue
would be best?

Tim
no glue at all. Nail the side with galv roof nails or similar.

Very few glues work in regimes of vastly variable humidity. Those posts
will MOVE.

Something rubbery and gap filling is possible, but that's about all.

Hot glue maybe.

Most glues don't work with lead. The metal forms a layer of oxide which
is not strongly bonded to the underlying metal. It may stick for a
short time, but in due course it will come loose. Then you've got
differential expansion - the metal will expand/contract due to temperature
differences, more than the wood does. That puts more strain on the
joint and will cause the glue to crack.

pete wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:09:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 4 July, 01:02, Roger Dewhurst wrote:

Get a stainless steel bowl of the right size and hammer into into
the shape that you want.

Not the easiest job, to work stainless like that!

In the end, I got some roofing lead and have battered it into shape.
Apart freom needing a little trimming up, it doesn't look too bad.
Now I need to make sure that it stays there on top of the post.
(It will be accessible to the public). Any suggestions as to what
kind of glue would be best?

Tim
no glue at all. Nail the side with galv roof nails or similar.

Very few glues work in regimes of vastly variable humidity. Those
posts will MOVE.

Something rubbery and gap filling is possible, but that's about all.

Hot glue maybe.

Most glues don't work with lead. The metal forms a layer of oxide
which is not strongly bonded to the underlying metal. It may stick
for a
short time, but in due course it will come loose. Then you've got
differential expansion - the metal will expand/contract due to
temperature differences, more than the wood does. That puts more
strain on the
joint and will cause the glue to crack.

I really would like to avoid nails. The domed cap is meant to be symbolic
of a departed friend's bald head. Adding nails to it would lend it a
certain "Frankenstein" air.

Is there no heavy duty flexible mastic/glue that might stick if I were to
score the lead deeply on the underside?

Tim

Tim Downie wrote:
pete wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:09:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 4 July, 01:02, Roger Dewhurst wrote:

Get a stainless steel bowl of the right size and hammer into into
the shape that you want.

Not the easiest job, to work stainless like that!

In the end, I got some roofing lead and have battered it into shape.
Apart freom needing a little trimming up, it doesn't look too bad.
Now I need to make sure that it stays there on top of the post.
(It will be accessible to the public). Any suggestions as to what
kind of glue would be best?

Tim
no glue at all. Nail the side with galv roof nails or similar.

Very few glues work in regimes of vastly variable humidity. Those
posts will MOVE.

Something rubbery and gap filling is possible, but that's about all.

Hot glue maybe.

Most glues don't work with lead. The metal forms a layer of oxide
which is not strongly bonded to the underlying metal. It may stick
for a
short time, but in due course it will come loose. Then you've got
differential expansion - the metal will expand/contract due to
temperature differences, more than the wood does. That puts more
strain on the
joint and will cause the glue to crack.

I really would like to avoid nails. The domed cap is meant to be
symbolic of a departed friend's bald head. Adding nails to it would
lend it a certain "Frankenstein" air.

Is there no heavy duty flexible mastic/glue that might stick if I were
to score the lead deeply on the underside?


mastic is a better bet than glue. I am trying to think of a rubbery type
product that adheres well to metal and is gap filling too. silicone
peels to easily from anything.

Maybe expanding foam would work..Hmm. That could be best of all. That's
fairly flexible and sure fills gaps.

Not as rubbery as one would like, but its flexible enough, and it sticks
like **** to everything.

Tim

On 12 July, 21:51, "Tim Downie" wrote:

*Any suggestions as to what kind of glue would be best?

None. Thermal expansion of the lead is a problem.

Best solution is to lead burn strips of lead onto the underneath, then
nail those down with clouts. Then dress the dome back into place over
them.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:09:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Tim Downie wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 4 July, 01:02, Roger Dewhurst wrote:

Get a stainless steel bowl of the right size and hammer into into the
shape that you want.

Not the easiest job, to work stainless like that!

In the end, I got some roofing lead and have battered it into shape.
Apart freom needing a little trimming up, it doesn't look too bad. Now
I need to make sure that it stays there on top of the post. (It will be
accessible to the public). Any suggestions as to what kind of glue
would be best?

Tim
no glue at all. Nail the side with galv roof nails or similar.

Very few glues work in regimes of vastly variable humidity. Those posts
will MOVE.

Something rubbery and gap filling is possible, but that's about all.

Hot glue maybe.

Car body filler.

--
Frank Erskine

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:09:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Tim Downie wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 4 July, 01:02, Roger Dewhurst wrote:

Get a stainless steel bowl of the right size and hammer into into the
shape that you want.
Not the easiest job, to work stainless like that!
In the end, I got some roofing lead and have battered it into shape.
Apart freom needing a little trimming up, it doesn't look too bad. Now
I need to make sure that it stays there on top of the post. (It will be
accessible to the public). Any suggestions as to what kind of glue
would be best?

Tim
no glue at all. Nail the side with galv roof nails or similar.

Very few glues work in regimes of vastly variable humidity. Those posts
will MOVE.

Something rubbery and gap filling is possible, but that's about all.

Hot glue maybe.

Car body filler.

Not flexible enough. It will crack off the wood.

Tim Downie wrote:
I've an idea to create a memorial post for a departed friend which
would consist of a domed metal cap on a 4"x4" post.

I had originally though of making the cap of lead but a quick google
suggest that lead "burning" is well beyond my skills & equipment
levels so I wondered if either I can work the lead "panel beater
style" to cover the top and extend down the sides for a few inches or
whether I should consider a different metal like an aluminium alloy.

Of course I could just contract the work out to someone to do
properly but I'd like to have a go myself.

Any suggestions?

In the end, I decided that beating and shaping copper was beyond my skills
so I went for lead. I started with a circle of roofers lead flashing and
basically beat, pummelled and bent it into shape with a combination of
wooden mallet and G-clamps. Pretty crude but it seems to have done the job.

http://www.zen31010.zen.co.uk/images/leadcap.jpg

Against advice, I have glued it with something called Stixall made by
everbuild (http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products.php?q=stixall). Only time
will tell how well it lasts but it's seems bl**dy well stuck on.

Just in case anyone was interested in what I did in the end...

Tim