We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure on
the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both
running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during this
time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same thing
happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the
shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic tank is
covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as it is slimy
stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the kitchen tap is
running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running (other sinks/
showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of specks of the
stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

None wrote:
We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure on
the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both
running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during this
time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same thing
happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the
shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic tank is
covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as it is slimy
stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the kitchen tap is
running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running (other sinks/
showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of specks of the
stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

Could there be a dead-leg of pipe somewhere, so if you just run the
kitchen tap, the pressure drop is not sifficient to cause any crap to
then drain from this dead-leg, but if several things are running at the
same time, it is?

Toby...

On Jun 22, 1:58*pm, Toby wrote:
None wrote:
We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure on
the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both
running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during this
time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same thing
happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the
shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic tank is
covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as it is slimy
stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the kitchen tap is
running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running (other sinks/
showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of specks of the
stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

Could there be a dead-leg of pipe somewhere, so if you just run the
kitchen tap, the pressure drop is not sifficient to cause any crap to
then drain from this dead-leg, but if several things are running at the
same time, it is?

Toby...

I've thought about that, but I just don't know how to go about
locating a dead leg.......

We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains

May I just check that this means the kitchen tap is (as it shd be) fed
direct from the supply pipe and not from the attic tank?

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

This is more a matter of elimination. Is it possible that the kitchen
tap is siphoning from the attic tank when other taps are used? In other
words, is the supply to the attic tank under water when the attic tank
is full? (I assume there is a ball-cock there which may just possibly
now be letting the level get too high.)

--
R

On Jun 22, 2:12*pm, "neverwas" wrote:
We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains

May I just check that this means the kitchen tap is (as it shd be) fed
direct from the supply pipe and not from the attic tank?

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

This is more a matter of elimination. *Is it possible that the kitchen
tap is siphoning from the attic tank when other taps are used? *In other
words, is the supply to the attic tank under water when the attic tank
is full? *(I assume there is a ball-cock there which may just possibly
now be letting the level get too high.)

--
R

I have performed several checks to try and make sure the kitchen tap
is fed from the mains, including turning off the stopcock on the road
to see if the tap would run. It didn't so I have to presume it is
mains fed.

The inlet to the attic tank is above the level of the water, though
the ballcock is letting the level go higher than it should, though not
that high.

The inlet to the attic tank is above the level of the water, though
the ballcock is letting the level go higher than it should, though not
that high.

Another elimination question. Any toilet which is *not* fed from the
attic tank? (Supplying WCs from a storage tank guards against siphonage
from the cistern to the drinking tap. It is a point I keep in mind as
we have no storage tank.)
--
R

On Jun 22, 3:24*pm, "neverwas" wrote:
The inlet to the attic tank is above the level of the water, though
the ballcock is letting the level go higher than it should, though not
that high.

Another elimination question. *Any toilet which is *not* fed from the
attic tank? *(Supplying WCs from a storage tank guards against siphonage
from the cistern to the drinking tap. *It is a point I keep in mind as
we have no storage tank.)
--
R

No, we have two toilets, both of which are fed from the attic tank. I
was talking to someone just now and they mentioned that if two taps
from the mains are opened, we are probably reaching the maximum
capacity of the pipe from the mains, which apparently will flush dirt
out. I guess that's a solid explanation. It wouldn't surprise me if
the dirt is from the mains as the water has always had a yellow hue to
it, especially in summer. Most probably iron/iron bacteria due to
sludge formations in toilet cistern for example.

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:48:48 -0700 (PDT), None wrote:

I was talking to someone just now and they mentioned that if two taps
from the mains are opened, we are probably reaching the maximum
capacity of the pipe from the mains, which apparently will flush dirt
out.

And draw it in if there is a leak somewhere...

I guess that's a solid explanation. It wouldn't surprise me if the dirt
is from the mains as the water has always had a yellow hue to it,
especially in summer.

Is your neighbours water the same?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Jun 22, 4:50*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:48:48 -0700 (PDT), None wrote:
I was talking to someone just now and they mentioned that if two taps
from the mains are opened, we are probably reaching the maximum
capacity of the pipe from the mains, which apparently will flush dirt
out.

And draw it in if there is a leak somewhere...

I guess that's a solid explanation. It wouldn't surprise me if the dirt
is from the mains as the water has always had a yellow hue to it,
especially in summer.

Is your neighbours water the same?

--
Cheers
Dave.

My neighbours have been a bit vague about it, so I don't really know,
they're quite old and don't seem to give two hoots either way. I've
had a leak detection expert in, and he says he simply couldn't find
anything. It does have the symptoms of a leak somewhere though, I know
what you're saying.

On Jun 22, 5:37*pm, None wrote:
On Jun 22, 4:50*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:



On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:48:48 -0700 (PDT), None wrote:
I was talking to someone just now and they mentioned that if two taps
from the mains are opened, we are probably reaching the maximum
capacity of the pipe from the mains, which apparently will flush dirt
out.

And draw it in if there is a leak somewhere...

I guess that's a solid explanation. It wouldn't surprise me if the dirt
is from the mains as the water has always had a yellow hue to it,
especially in summer.

Is your neighbours water the same?

--
Cheers
Dave.

My neighbours have been a bit vague about it, so I don't really know,
they're quite old and don't seem to give two hoots either way. I've
had a leak detection expert in, and he says he simply couldn't find
anything. It does have the symptoms of a leak somewhere though, I know
what you're saying.

Anyone got any other ideas?

None wrote:
On Jun 22, 5:37 pm, None wrote:
On Jun 22, 4:50 pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:



On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:48:48 -0700 (PDT), None wrote:
I was talking to someone just now and they mentioned that if two
taps from the mains are opened, we are probably reaching the
maximum capacity of the pipe from the mains, which apparently will
flush dirt out.

And draw it in if there is a leak somewhere...

I guess that's a solid explanation. It wouldn't surprise me if the
dirt is from the mains as the water has always had a yellow hue to
it, especially in summer.

Is your neighbours water the same?

--
Cheers
Dave.

My neighbours have been a bit vague about it, so I don't really know,
they're quite old and don't seem to give two hoots either way. I've
had a leak detection expert in, and he says he simply couldn't find
anything. It does have the symptoms of a leak somewhere though, I
know what you're saying.

Anyone got any other ideas?

Get in touch with whoever it is you pay your water bill to - clean water and
santitation is what you are paying for, it's their problem, not yours, and
tell them that in the meantime between the phone call and it being
rectified, you are buying bottled drinking water and sending them the bills.

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:44:54 -0700 (PDT), None
wrote:

We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure on
the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both
running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during this
time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same thing
happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the
shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic tank is
covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as it is slimy
stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the kitchen tap is
running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running (other sinks/
showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of specks of the
stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......


Is it possible to get to the mains pipe as it enters, or even before
it enters the house? Or at least as early as possible in the run
before it reaches any other taps.

If so you could turn off the supply in the street and plumb in another
tap and see if the water was dirty there. Although it seems when the
pressure is high there is no dirt. Maybe if you reduce the pressure
using the street stopcock the water will becom dirty.

I guess this would prove that the water is dirty before it arrives at
your house.
--

blackbat /\x/\

On Jun 22, 8:40*pm, blackbat wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:44:54 -0700 (PDT), None
wrote:



We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure on
the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both
running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during this
time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same thing
happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the
shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic tank is
covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as it is slimy
stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the kitchen tap is
running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running (other sinks/
showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of specks of the
stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

Is it possible to get to the mains pipe as it enters, or even before
it enters the house? Or at least as early as possible in the run
before it reaches any other taps.

If so you could turn off the supply in the street and plumb in another
tap and see if the water was dirty there. Although it seems when the
pressure is high there is no dirt. Maybe if you reduce the pressure
using the street stopcock the water will becom dirty.

I guess this would prove that the water is dirty before it arrives at
your house.
--

blackbat /\x/\

A glass filled up from the kitchen sink while another tap is running
outside is literally filled with dirt, while the tap by itself is
clear (apart from the odd tiny particle). I dunno, plumbing in another
tap sounds like a lot of hassle and I've no time at the moment.
Especially since its almost impossible that I would find anything to
help me in this.

A couple of years ago, I got the water board to 'flush' out the mains
in the road, and the water quality changed dramatically. It was
crystal clear and clean, much more pleasant to drink, shower in, and
so forth. This did not last unfortunately, a week later and it was
back to its usual. After that, they refused to take any further
action, despite me telling them how much of an improvement there had
been. Since then I've thought that it really must be an issue on their
side, perhaps compounded by a problem on mine. Hard to tell.

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:58:51 -0700 (PDT), None
wrote:


A glass filled up from the kitchen sink while another tap is running
outside is literally filled with dirt, while the tap by itself is
clear (apart from the odd tiny particle). I dunno, plumbing in another
tap sounds like a lot of hassle and I've no time at the moment.
Especially since its almost impossible that I would find anything to
help me in this.


Are the taps 'in series' if you know what I mean?
If so, is the kitchen tap the first in the run?
--

blackbat /\x/\

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:58:51 -0700, None wrote:
A couple of years ago, I got the water board to 'flush' out the mains
in the road, and the water quality changed dramatically.

Surely there are some sort of national minimum water quality standards
that they have to adhere to, with large penalties for failing to comply?
I'm amazed it can be as bad as you say and they refuse to at least come
and take samples to ensure that it's not on their side of things.

Are the water company's offices anywhere that you can get to? Maybe
waving a physical sample under their noses might get them to do
something (sending water through the post might prove difficult

cheers

Jules

None wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:40 pm, blackbat wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:44:54 -0700 (PDT), None
wrote:



We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure on
the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both
running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during
this time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same
thing happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap
while the shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic
tank is covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as
it is slimy stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the
kitchen tap is running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running
(other sinks/ showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of
specks of the stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

Is it possible to get to the mains pipe as it enters, or even before
it enters the house? Or at least as early as possible in the run
before it reaches any other taps.

If so you could turn off the supply in the street and plumb in
another tap and see if the water was dirty there. Although it seems
when the pressure is high there is no dirt. Maybe if you reduce the
pressure using the street stopcock the water will becom dirty.

I guess this would prove that the water is dirty before it arrives at
your house.
--

blackbat /\x/\

A glass filled up from the kitchen sink while another tap is running
outside is literally filled with dirt, while the tap by itself is
clear (apart from the odd tiny particle). I dunno, plumbing in another
tap sounds like a lot of hassle and I've no time at the moment.
Especially since its almost impossible that I would find anything to
help me in this.

A couple of years ago, I got the water board to 'flush' out the mains
in the road, and the water quality changed dramatically. It was
crystal clear and clean, much more pleasant to drink, shower in, and
so forth. This did not last unfortunately, a week later and it was
back to its usual. After that, they refused to take any further
action, despite me telling them how much of an improvement there had
been. Since then I've thought that it really must be an issue on their
side, perhaps compounded by a problem on mine. Hard to tell.

Hi None, sorry to hear of the continuing saga. It really does suggest that
you are on some kind of balance point in the system; I'm afraid it's
tackling the Water Dept. again.

Regards

Clot

On Jun 22, 10:43*pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:40 pm, blackbat wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:44:54 -0700 (PDT), None
wrote:

We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure on
the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both
running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during
this time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same
thing happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap
while the shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic
tank is covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as
it is slimy stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the
kitchen tap is running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running
(other sinks/ showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of
specks of the stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

Is it possible to get to the mains pipe as it enters, or even before
it enters the house? Or at least as early as possible in the run
before it reaches any other taps.

If so you could turn off the supply in the street and plumb in
another tap and see if the water was dirty there. Although it seems
when the pressure is high there is no dirt. Maybe if you reduce the
pressure using the street stopcock the water will becom dirty.

I guess this would prove that the water is dirty before it arrives at
your house.
--

blackbat /\x/\

A glass filled up from the kitchen sink while another tap is running
outside is literally filled with dirt, while the tap by itself is
clear (apart from the odd tiny particle). I dunno, plumbing in another
tap sounds like a lot of hassle and I've no time at the moment.
Especially since its almost impossible that I would find anything to
help me in this.

A couple of years ago, I got the water board to 'flush' out the mains
in the road, and the water quality changed dramatically. It was
crystal clear and clean, much more pleasant to drink, shower in, and
so forth. This did not last unfortunately, a week later and it was
back to its usual. After that, they refused to take any further
action, despite me telling them how much of an improvement there had
been. Since then I've thought that it really must be an issue on their
side, perhaps compounded by a problem on mine. Hard to tell.

Hi None, sorry to hear of the continuing saga. It really does suggest that
you are on some kind of balance point in the system; I'm afraid it's
tackling the Water Dept. again.

Regards

Clot

Hi Clot... yeah the saga continues after I tried to ignore it for a
lengthy period. It strikes me as very odd though that the water is
generally sort of ok if just one tap is running. But I'm struggling to
find out where a dead leg could be located, and we don't have any
signs of a leak really.

@ blackbat: The tap in the side passage seems to be more or less level
with the kitchen tap on the other side of the wall, hard to tell. The
washing machine is several feet downstream of both.

@ Jules: The local council have tested the water twice and it came
back fine apparently, so they wash their hands of me really. Sediment/
iron bacteria will only count as an aesthetic complaint, but it
worries me that so much of it seems to come through when more than one
mains source is being used.

None wrote:
On Jun 22, 10:43 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:40 pm, blackbat wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:44:54 -0700 (PDT), None
wrote:

We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure
on the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they
are both running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during
this time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same
thing happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap
while the shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic
tank is covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as
it is slimy stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the
kitchen tap is running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running
(other sinks/ showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of
specks of the stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

Is it possible to get to the mains pipe as it enters, or even
before it enters the house? Or at least as early as possible in
the run before it reaches any other taps.

If so you could turn off the supply in the street and plumb in
another tap and see if the water was dirty there. Although it seems
when the pressure is high there is no dirt. Maybe if you reduce the
pressure using the street stopcock the water will becom dirty.

I guess this would prove that the water is dirty before it arrives
at your house.
--

blackbat /\x/\

A glass filled up from the kitchen sink while another tap is running
outside is literally filled with dirt, while the tap by itself is
clear (apart from the odd tiny particle). I dunno, plumbing in
another tap sounds like a lot of hassle and I've no time at the
moment. Especially since its almost impossible that I would find
anything to help me in this.

A couple of years ago, I got the water board to 'flush' out the
mains in the road, and the water quality changed dramatically. It
was crystal clear and clean, much more pleasant to drink, shower
in, and so forth. This did not last unfortunately, a week later and
it was back to its usual. After that, they refused to take any
further action, despite me telling them how much of an improvement
there had been. Since then I've thought that it really must be an
issue on their side, perhaps compounded by a problem on mine. Hard
to tell.

Hi None, sorry to hear of the continuing saga. It really does
suggest that you are on some kind of balance point in the system;
I'm afraid it's tackling the Water Dept. again.

Regards

Clot

Hi Clot... yeah the saga continues after I tried to ignore it for a
lengthy period. It strikes me as very odd though that the water is
generally sort of ok if just one tap is running. But I'm struggling to
find out where a dead leg could be located, and we don't have any
signs of a leak really.

A leak is irrelevant, I think. The deadleg issue could be relevant, but I
thought was discounted in previous dialogue. When you have more than one tap
running, you create a greater flow in the mains supplying the house and
hence can disturb sediment.in the mains.

@ blackbat: The tap in the side passage seems to be more or less level
with the kitchen tap on the other side of the wall, hard to tell. The
washing machine is several feet downstream of both.

@ Jules: The local council have tested the water twice and it came
back fine apparently, so they wash their hands of me really. Sediment/
iron bacteria will only count as an aesthetic complaint, but it
worries me that so much of it seems to come through when more than one
mains source is being used.

On Jun 23, 1:01*am, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 22, 10:43 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:40 pm, blackbat wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:44:54 -0700 (PDT), None
wrote:

We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure
on the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they
are both running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during
this time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same
thing happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap
while the shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic
tank is covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as
it is slimy stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the
kitchen tap is running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running
(other sinks/ showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of
specks of the stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

Is it possible to get to the mains pipe as it enters, or even
before it enters the house? Or at least as early as possible in
the run before it reaches any other taps.

If so you could turn off the supply in the street and plumb in
another tap and see if the water was dirty there. Although it seems
when the pressure is high there is no dirt. Maybe if you reduce the
pressure using the street stopcock the water will becom dirty.

I guess this would prove that the water is dirty before it arrives
at your house.
--

blackbat /\x/\

A glass filled up from the kitchen sink while another tap is running
outside is literally filled with dirt, while the tap by itself is
clear (apart from the odd tiny particle). I dunno, plumbing in
another tap sounds like a lot of hassle and I've no time at the
moment. Especially since its almost impossible that I would find
anything to help me in this.

A couple of years ago, I got the water board to 'flush' out the
mains in the road, and the water quality changed dramatically. It
was crystal clear and clean, much more pleasant to drink, shower
in, and so forth. This did not last unfortunately, a week later and
it was back to its usual. After that, they refused to take any
further action, despite me telling them how much of an improvement
there had been. Since then I've thought that it really must be an
issue on their side, perhaps compounded by a problem on mine. Hard
to tell.

Hi None, sorry to hear of the continuing saga. It really does
suggest that you are on some kind of balance point in the system;
I'm afraid it's tackling the Water Dept. again.

Regards

Clot

Hi Clot... yeah the saga continues after I tried to ignore it for a
lengthy period. It strikes me as very odd though that the water is
generally sort of ok if just one tap is running. But I'm struggling to
find out where a dead leg could be located, and we don't have any
signs of a leak really.

A leak is irrelevant, I think. The deadleg issue could be relevant, but I
thought was discounted in previous dialogue. When you have more than one tap
running, you create a greater flow in the mains supplying the house and
hence can disturb sediment.in the mains.



@ blackbat: The tap in the side passage seems to be more or less level
with the kitchen tap on the other side of the wall, hard to tell. The
washing machine is several feet downstream of both.

@ Jules: The local council have tested the water twice and it came
back fine apparently, so they wash their hands of me really. Sediment/
iron bacteria will only count as an aesthetic complaint, but it
worries me that so much of it seems to come through when more than one
mains source is being used.

It would be a huge relief if the problem definitely resides outside my
boundary to be honest, it would give me carte blanche to simply get on
to the water people and make something happen that way. But why would
hardly any particle debris be in the water when just one tap is on
full whack? Why the big difference?

"None" wrote in message
...
On Jun 23, 1:01 am, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 22, 10:43 pm, "Clot" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:40 pm, blackbat wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:44:54 -0700 (PDT), None

wrote:

We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the
mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the
pressure
on the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they
are both running off the same feed.

If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap
during
this time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The
same
thing happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen
tap
while the shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the
attic
tank is covered in this debris. It appears to be iron
bacteria, as
it is slimy stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only
the
kitchen tap is running, or anything 'downstream' of it is
running
(other sinks/ showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple
of
specks of the stuff.

Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......

Is it possible to get to the mains pipe as it enters, or even
before it enters the house? Or at least as early as possible in
the run before it reaches any other taps.

If so you could turn off the supply in the street and plumb in
another tap and see if the water was dirty there. Although it
seems
when the pressure is high there is no dirt. Maybe if you reduce
the
pressure using the street stopcock the water will becom dirty.

I guess this would prove that the water is dirty before it
arrives
at your house.
--

blackbat /\x/\

A glass filled up from the kitchen sink while another tap is
running
outside is literally filled with dirt, while the tap by itself
is
clear (apart from the odd tiny particle). I dunno, plumbing in
another tap sounds like a lot of hassle and I've no time at the
moment. Especially since its almost impossible that I would find
anything to help me in this.

A couple of years ago, I got the water board to 'flush' out the
mains in the road, and the water quality changed dramatically.
It
was crystal clear and clean, much more pleasant to drink, shower
in, and so forth. This did not last unfortunately, a week later
and
it was back to its usual. After that, they refused to take any
further action, despite me telling them how much of an
improvement
there had been. Since then I've thought that it really must be
an
issue on their side, perhaps compounded by a problem on mine.
Hard
to tell.

Hi None, sorry to hear of the continuing saga. It really does
suggest that you are on some kind of balance point in the system;
I'm afraid it's tackling the Water Dept. again.

Regards

Clot

Hi Clot... yeah the saga continues after I tried to ignore it for
a
lengthy period. It strikes me as very odd though that the water is
generally sort of ok if just one tap is running. But I'm
struggling to
find out where a dead leg could be located, and we don't have any
signs of a leak really.

A leak is irrelevant, I think. The deadleg issue could be relevant,
but I
thought was discounted in previous dialogue. When you have more than
one tap
running, you create a greater flow in the mains supplying the house
and
hence can disturb sediment.in the mains.



@ blackbat: The tap in the side passage seems to be more or less
level
with the kitchen tap on the other side of the wall, hard to tell.
The
washing machine is several feet downstream of both.

@ Jules: The local council have tested the water twice and it came
back fine apparently, so they wash their hands of me really.
Sediment/
iron bacteria will only count as an aesthetic complaint, but it
worries me that so much of it seems to come through when more than
one
mains source is being used.

It would be a huge relief if the problem definitely resides outside
my
boundary to be honest, it would give me carte blanche to simply get
on
to the water people and make something happen that way. But why would
hardly any particle debris be in the water when just one tap is on
full whack? Why the big difference?

Have you talked to the neighbours - do they have the issue?

Disconnect the supply at the first stop cock, and temporarily fit a
tap there. Run off vast quantities of water. If clear the problem is
on your piping, if not it's the water companies issue. If the problem
lies in your piping, bite the bullet, rip out all the old pipe and
re-plumb. Technically trivial though possibly physically challenging.
If it's your piping it sounds like you have iron barrel in use, in
which case it should be replaced anyway.

AWEM

None wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:40 pm, blackbat wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:44:54 -0700 (PDT), None
wrote:



We have an outside tap in the side passage that runs off the mains
supply (we're not on a well), and when that is run, the pressure on
the kitchen sink tap drops immensely, which would mean they are both
running off the same feed.
If you pour yourself a glass of water from the kitchen tap during this
time, it will be filled with brown particle debris. The same thing
happens if you pour a glass of water from the kitchen tap while the
shed washing machine is running. The bottom of the attic tank is
covered in this debris. It appears to be iron bacteria, as it is slimy
stuff, but that's just my best guess. When only the kitchen tap is
running, or anything 'downstream' of it is running (other sinks/
showers), then the worst you'll see is a couple of specks of the
stuff.
Would hugely appreciate some advice or even answers.......
Is it possible to get to the mains pipe as it enters, or even before
it enters the house? Or at least as early as possible in the run
before it reaches any other taps.

If so you could turn off the supply in the street and plumb in another
tap and see if the water was dirty there. Although it seems when the
pressure is high there is no dirt. Maybe if you reduce the pressure
using the street stopcock the water will becom dirty.

I guess this would prove that the water is dirty before it arrives at
your house.
--

blackbat /\x/\

A glass filled up from the kitchen sink while another tap is running
outside is literally filled with dirt, while the tap by itself is
clear (apart from the odd tiny particle). I dunno, plumbing in another
tap sounds like a lot of hassle and I've no time at the moment.
Especially since its almost impossible that I would find anything to
help me in this.


You really need to do this to rule out problems your side, until you do
this, it will be hard to press the water company to resolve it, as you
are not 100% sure the problem is theirs...

Do do you have a main stop tap inside your house that turns everything off?
If so, it is reasonably easy to turn this off, disconnect the output
pipe from this (the one that connects to the rest of your plumbing in
the house, usually out the top) and then connect a hose to this to see
if you still get crap from this point.

if it is a 15mm pipe, then a 1/2" hoselock type tap connector should
just screw on the top, if it is 22mm then it is usually 3/4" (In this
link, you will need to use the supplied white adaptor ring for a 15mm
cock, and remove the ring for a 22mm cock)
http://www.easywatering.co.uk/acatal...ctor_2175.html

Keep the length of hose to the absolute minimum (Maybe just a meter, and
direct the flow into a/several clean bucket(s)) then see what you get
from here.

When you disconnect your house plumbing, you will get water draining, so
if you turn off your water first, then turn on the lowest tap, then
flush the toilet to activate the ball valve in the loft tank, then open
any other mains water taps you have, this should drain most of it first,
but there may still be several litres of water in there, so have a
bucket ready. (You can easily stop the flow with your finger, as it will
not be under mains pressure any more)

Toby...

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:25:53 -0700 (PDT), None wrote:

The local council have tested the water twice and it came back fine
apparently, so they wash their hands of me really.

"Wash their hands".... ho ho. B-)

Were the sample(s) tested taken as "clean" or "dirty" examples? IMHO
they ought to have tested worse case ie from the kitchen tap when
other taps are in use.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Disconnect the supply at the first stop cock, and temporarily fit a
tap there. Run off vast quantities of water. If clear the problem is
on your piping, if not it's the water companies issue. If the problem
lies in your piping, bite the bullet, rip out all the old pipe and
re-plumb. Technically trivial though possibly physically challenging.
If it's your piping it sounds like you have iron barrel in use, in
which case it should be replaced anyway.


Andrew's proposal seems the most definitive test. But another (and less
invasive) experiment would be to use the stopcock in the road (which
you mentioned you had accessed before) to reduce the maximum flow rate
with the 2 taps to what you get usually with just the kitchen tap. Then,
if you still get the debris with the 2 taps running, it looks less
likely to be the result of the flow rate from outside your property and
more something within it. But it can't of course prove the converse.

Also, I think we've all assumed that you get debris in the water from
both the kitchen tap and the outside tap when running both. If
not.....


--
R

On Jun 23, 10:44*am, "neverwas" wrote:
Disconnect the supply at the first stop cock, and temporarily fit a
tap there. Run off vast quantities of water. If clear the problem is
on your piping, if not it's the water companies issue. If the problem
lies in your piping, bite the bullet, rip out all the old pipe and
re-plumb. Technically trivial though possibly physically challenging.
If it's your piping it sounds like you have iron barrel in use, in
which case it should be replaced anyway.

Andrew's proposal seems the most definitive test. *But another (and less
invasive) experiment would be to use the stopcock in the *road (which
you mentioned you had accessed before) to reduce the maximum flow rate
with the 2 taps to what you get usually with just the kitchen tap. Then,
if you still get the debris with the 2 taps running, it looks less
likely to be the result of the flow rate from outside your property and
more something within it. *But it can't of course prove the converse.

Also, I think we've all assumed that you get debris in the water from
both the kitchen tap and the outside tap when running both. * If
not.....

--
R

Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap that is put
on first at full whack will have minimal debris, while the tap that is
opened second (also at max but with a trickle flow) will be filled
with it. I guess when I get home I'll have to play around and see what
happens when both taps are on at half power etc.

xxx

Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first.
xxxxxxx

if you're going to attack the stopcock outlet
with wd40 and spanners etc
I guess that will be quite a job,
and maybe even a problem reconnecting it,
so while you're at it why not add a junction
with a short tap and pipe coming off
so that you can quickly prove what's happening
whenever the council pop in unexpectedly to inspect it?

[g]

On Jun 23, 11:57*am, None wrote:
On Jun 23, 10:44*am, "neverwas" wrote:



Disconnect the supply at the first stop cock, and temporarily fit a
tap there. Run off vast quantities of water. If clear the problem is
on your piping, if not it's the water companies issue. If the problem
lies in your piping, bite the bullet, rip out all the old pipe and
re-plumb. Technically trivial though possibly physically challenging.
If it's your piping it sounds like you have iron barrel in use, in
which case it should be replaced anyway.

Andrew's proposal seems the most definitive test. *But another (and less
invasive) experiment would be to use the stopcock in the *road (which
you mentioned you had accessed before) to reduce the maximum flow rate
with the 2 taps to what you get usually with just the kitchen tap. Then,
if you still get the debris with the 2 taps running, it looks less
likely to be the result of the flow rate from outside your property and
more something within it. *But it can't of course prove the converse.

Also, I think we've all assumed that you get debris in the water from
both the kitchen tap and the outside tap when running both. * If
not.....

--
R

Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap that is put
on first at full whack will have minimal debris, while the tap that is
opened second (also at max but with a trickle flow) will be filled
with it. I guess when I get home I'll have to play around and see what
happens when both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether or not
the tap in our side passage is opened first or second, it is the tap
which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the kitchen tap full
whack then nip outside and open the side passage tap to full, it comes
on at full pressure while the kitchen tap will trickle. And
interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the side passage tap at the
high pressure in addition to the kitchen tap's dirt content with the
trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap that is
put on first at full whack will have minimal debris, while the tap
that is opened second (also at max but with a trickle flow) will be
filled with it. I guess when I get home I'll have to play around and
see what happens when both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether or not
the tap in our side passage is opened first or second, it is the tap
which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the kitchen tap full
whack then nip outside and open the side passage tap to full, it comes
on at full pressure while the kitchen tap will trickle. And
interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the side passage tap at the
high pressure in addition to the kitchen tap's dirt content with the
trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in your property?
Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or near the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your taps are off,
then again after you turn the water off in the road and then run the taps to
relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

On Jun 23, 1:58*pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap that is
put on first at full whack will have minimal debris, while the tap
that is opened second (also at max but with a trickle flow) will be
filled with it. I guess when I get home I'll have to play around and
see what happens when both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether or not
the tap in our side passage is opened first or second, it is the tap
which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the kitchen tap full
whack then nip outside and open the side passage tap to full, it comes
on at full pressure while the kitchen tap will trickle. And
interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the side passage tap at the
high pressure in addition to the kitchen tap's dirt content with the
trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in your property?
Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or near the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your taps are off,
then again after you turn the water off in the road and then run the taps to
relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap that is
put on first at full whack will have minimal debris, while the tap
that is opened second (also at max but with a trickle flow) will be
filled with it. I guess when I get home I'll have to play around
and see what happens when both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether or
not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second, it is
the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the kitchen
tap full whack then nip outside and open the side passage tap to
full, it comes on at full pressure while the kitchen tap will
trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the side
passage tap at the high pressure in addition to the kitchen tap's
dirt content with the trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in your
property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or near the
boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your taps
are off, then again after you turn the water off in the road and
then run the taps to relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

On Jun 23, 2:58*pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap that is
put on first at full whack will have minimal debris, while the tap
that is opened second (also at max but with a trickle flow) will be
filled with it. I guess when I get home I'll have to play around
and see what happens when both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether or
not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second, it is
the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the kitchen
tap full whack then nip outside and open the side passage tap to
full, it comes on at full pressure while the kitchen tap will
trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the side
passage tap at the high pressure in addition to the kitchen tap's
dirt content with the trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in your
property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or near the
boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your taps
are off, then again after you turn the water off in the road and
then run the taps to relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank in the
attic?

None wrote:
On Jun 23, 2:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap that
is put on first at full whack will have minimal debris, while
the tap that is opened second (also at max but with a trickle
flow) will be filled with it. I guess when I get home I'll have
to play around and see what happens when both taps are on at
half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether or
not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second, it is
the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the kitchen
tap full whack then nip outside and open the side passage tap to
full, it comes on at full pressure while the kitchen tap will
trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the side
passage tap at the high pressure in addition to the kitchen tap's
dirt content with the trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in your
property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or near
the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your taps
are off, then again after you turn the water off in the road and
then run the taps to relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank in the
attic?

Yes, this one keeps your radiator circuit topped up, and absorbs any
contraction and expantion in the system due to the water heating, so may
contain nasty brown water!

This tank will have a mains water feed to it, but this must be above the
water line, just like the main tank - is it?

Toby...

On Jun 23, 3:15*pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 2:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap that
is put on first at full whack will have minimal debris, while
the tap that is opened second (also at max but with a trickle
flow) will be filled with it. I guess when I get home I'll have
to play around and see what happens when both taps are on at
half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether or
not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second, it is
the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the kitchen
tap full whack then nip outside and open the side passage tap to
full, it comes on at full pressure while the kitchen tap will
trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the side
passage tap at the high pressure in addition to the kitchen tap's
dirt content with the trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in your
property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or near
the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your taps
are off, then again after you turn the water off in the road and
then run the taps to relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank in the
attic?

Yes, this one keeps your radiator circuit topped up, and absorbs any
contraction and expantion in the system due to the water heating, so may
contain nasty brown water!

This tank will have a mains water feed to it, but this must be above the
water line, just like the main tank - is it?

Toby...

I'll have a check when I get home... its tricky to get to, as the
flooring aint the most secure up there. But surely that couldn't be
siphoning water down to the tap?!

None wrote:
On Jun 23, 3:15 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 2:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do
neverwas' stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is
the tap that is put on first at full whack will have minimal
debris, while the tap that is opened second (also at max but
with a trickle flow) will be filled with it. I guess when I
get home I'll have to play around and see what happens when
both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether
or not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second,
it is the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the
kitchen tap full whack then nip outside and open the side
passage tap to full, it comes on at full pressure while the
kitchen tap will trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt
comes out of the side passage tap at the high pressure in
addition to the kitchen tap's dirt content with the trickle
flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in
your property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or
near the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your
taps are off, then again after you turn the water off in the
road and then run the taps to relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank in
the attic?

Yes, this one keeps your radiator circuit topped up, and absorbs any
contraction and expantion in the system due to the water heating, so
may contain nasty brown water!

This tank will have a mains water feed to it, but this must be above
the water line, just like the main tank - is it?

Toby...

I'll have a check when I get home... its tricky to get to, as the
flooring aint the most secure up there. But surely that couldn't be
siphoning water down to the tap?!

It depends on the type of valve, it is certainly not impossible.
Not that likely, but again, until you find the cause of the problem, you
need to rule out as much as you can.

Another test for you to try if that looks all OK...

Run the cold water in the kitchen for 1 minute (I assume this will not
produce bits in the water if it is run alone)

Now flush the loo

Wait 10 minutes without running any water anywhere.

turn off water in the road

now place a bucket under your kitchen tap and turn the cold on to release
the pressure

Do you get any bits, and how much water came out?

when the water has stopped (or slowed to a trickle) empty the bucket and
then leave the tap on with the bucket underneath and flush the loo

the water in the pipe to the loft should now empty into the bucket - any
bits in there now?

Toby....

On Jun 23, 4:14*pm, None wrote:
On Jun 23, 3:15*pm, "Toby" wrote:



None wrote:
On Jun 23, 2:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap that
is put on first at full whack will have minimal debris, while
the tap that is opened second (also at max but with a trickle
flow) will be filled with it. I guess when I get home I'll have
to play around and see what happens when both taps are on at
half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether or
not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second, it is
the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the kitchen
tap full whack then nip outside and open the side passage tap to
full, it comes on at full pressure while the kitchen tap will
trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the side
passage tap at the high pressure in addition to the kitchen tap's
dirt content with the trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in your
property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or near
the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your taps
are off, then again after you turn the water off in the road and
then run the taps to relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank in the
attic?

Yes, this one keeps your radiator circuit topped up, and absorbs any
contraction and expantion in the system due to the water heating, so may
contain nasty brown water!

This tank will have a mains water feed to it, but this must be above the
water line, just like the main tank - is it?

Toby...

I'll have a check when I get home... its tricky to get to, as the
flooring aint the most secure up there. But surely that couldn't be
siphoning water down to the tap?!

Just in the door now and checked the expansion tank... water level is
definitely below the mains inlet just like attic tank.

On Jun 23, 4:31*pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 3:15 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 2:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do
neverwas' stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is
the tap that is put on first at full whack will have minimal
debris, while the tap that is opened second (also at max but
with a trickle flow) will be filled with it. I guess when I
get home I'll have to play around and see what happens when
both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether
or not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second,
it is the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the
kitchen tap full whack then nip outside and open the side
passage tap to full, it comes on at full pressure while the
kitchen tap will trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt
comes out of the side passage tap at the high pressure in
addition to the kitchen tap's dirt content with the trickle
flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in
your property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or
near the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your
taps are off, then again after you turn the water off in the
road and then run the taps to relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank in
the attic?

Yes, this one keeps your radiator circuit topped up, and absorbs any
contraction and expantion in the system due to the water heating, so
may contain nasty brown water!

This tank will have a mains water feed to it, but this must be above
the water line, just like the main tank - is it?

Toby...

I'll have a check when I get home... its tricky to get to, as the
flooring aint the most secure up there. But surely that couldn't be
siphoning water down to the tap?!

It depends on the type of valve, it is certainly not impossible.
Not that likely, but again, until you find the cause of the problem, you
need to rule out as much as you can.

Another test for you to try if that looks all OK...

Run the cold water in the kitchen for 1 minute (I assume this will not
produce bits in the water if it is run alone)

Now flush the loo

Wait 10 minutes without running any water anywhere.

turn off water in the road

now place a bucket under your kitchen tap and turn the cold on to release
the pressure

Do you get any bits, and how much water came out?

when the water has stopped (or slowed to a trickle) empty the bucket and
then leave the tap on with the bucket underneath and flush the loo

the water in the pipe to the loft should now empty into the bucket - any
bits in there now?

Toby....

lol... I'll have to wait until later this evening to try that
experiment as there is zero chance the others in the house right now
can go so long without using water somewhere. If there are bits
present, what will this indicate?

"None" wrote in message
...
On Jun 23, 4:14 pm, None wrote:
On Jun 23, 3:15 pm, "Toby" wrote:



None wrote:
On Jun 23, 2:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby"
wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do
neverwas'
stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is the tap
that
is put on first at full whack will have minimal debris,
while
the tap that is opened second (also at max but with a
trickle
flow) will be filled with it. I guess when I get home I'll
have
to play around and see what happens when both taps are on
at
half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out.
Whether or
not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second,
it is
the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the
kitchen
tap full whack then nip outside and open the side passage
tap to
full, it comes on at full pressure while the kitchen tap
will
trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the
side
passage tap at the high pressure in addition to the kitchen
tap's
dirt content with the trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to
explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in
your
property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on or
near
the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all
your taps
are off, then again after you turn the water off in the road
and
then run the taps to relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank
in the
attic?

Yes, this one keeps your radiator circuit topped up, and absorbs
any
contraction and expantion in the system due to the water heating,
so may
contain nasty brown water!

This tank will have a mains water feed to it, but this must be
above the
water line, just like the main tank - is it?

Toby...

I'll have a check when I get home... its tricky to get to, as the
flooring aint the most secure up there. But surely that couldn't be
siphoning water down to the tap?!

Just in the door now and checked the expansion tank... water level is
definitely below the mains inlet just like attic tank.


OK a long shot, but MANY years ago I had an odd 'dirty water' issue
having recently moved into a house 'done up' by a builder. He had
connected the hot cylinder the wrong way round so the coil from the
boiler was infact the hot water source, and the boiler water was
circulating in the jacket that should have been the coil. Nothing
showed up until I turned off the water feed to change a tap washer,
but the water carried on flowing then got very dirty and the radiators
started gurgling. Builders - don't you love 'em G

AWEM

Andrew Mawson wrote:
"None" wrote in message
...
On Jun 23, 4:14 pm, None wrote:
On Jun 23, 3:15 pm, "Toby" wrote:



None wrote:
On Jun 23, 2:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby"
wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do
neverwas' stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is
the tap that is put on first at full whack will have minimal
debris, while the tap that is opened second (also at max but
with a trickle flow) will be filled with it. I guess when I
get home I'll have to play around and see what happens when
both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether
or not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second,
it is the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run
the kitchen tap full whack then nip outside and open the side
passage tap to full, it comes on at full pressure while the
kitchen tap will trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt
comes out of the side passage tap at the high pressure in
addition to the kitchen tap's dirt content with the trickle
flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in
your property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on
or near the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your
taps are off, then again after you turn the water off in the
road and then run the taps to relese any pressure in the system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank in
the attic?

Yes, this one keeps your radiator circuit topped up, and absorbs any
contraction and expantion in the system due to the water heating,
so may contain nasty brown water!

This tank will have a mains water feed to it, but this must be
above the water line, just like the main tank - is it?

Toby...

I'll have a check when I get home... its tricky to get to, as the
flooring aint the most secure up there. But surely that couldn't be
siphoning water down to the tap?!

Just in the door now and checked the expansion tank... water level is
definitely below the mains inlet just like attic tank.


OK a long shot, but MANY years ago I had an odd 'dirty water' issue
having recently moved into a house 'done up' by a builder. He had
connected the hot cylinder the wrong way round so the coil from the
boiler was infact the hot water source, and the boiler water was
circulating in the jacket that should have been the coil. Nothing
showed up until I turned off the water feed to change a tap washer,
but the water carried on flowing then got very dirty and the radiators
started gurgling. Builders - don't you love 'em G

AWEM

I doubt this would be the problem, as the issue is with the mains water - if
the main storage part of the hot cylinder was connected to the mains water
feed directly, I would have expected it to have either exploded or
overflowed quite a bit by now!!

....this is assuming the OP has a normqal vented cylinder of course!

Toby...

None wrote:
On Jun 23, 4:31 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 3:15 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 2:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do
neverwas' stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is
the tap that is put on first at full whack will have minimal
debris, while the tap that is opened second (also at max but
with a trickle flow) will be filled with it. I guess when I
get home I'll have to play around and see what happens when
both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether
or not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second,
it is the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run
the kitchen tap full whack then nip outside and open the side
passage tap to full, it comes on at full pressure while the
kitchen tap will trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt
comes out of the side passage tap at the high pressure in
addition to the kitchen tap's dirt content with the trickle
flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in
your property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on
or near the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your
taps are off, then again after you turn the water off in the
road and then run the taps to relese any pressure in the
system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank in
the attic?

Yes, this one keeps your radiator circuit topped up, and absorbs
any contraction and expantion in the system due to the water
heating, so may contain nasty brown water!

This tank will have a mains water feed to it, but this must be
above the water line, just like the main tank - is it?

Toby...

I'll have a check when I get home... its tricky to get to, as the
flooring aint the most secure up there. But surely that couldn't be
siphoning water down to the tap?!

It depends on the type of valve, it is certainly not impossible.
Not that likely, but again, until you find the cause of the problem,
you need to rule out as much as you can.

Another test for you to try if that looks all OK...

Run the cold water in the kitchen for 1 minute (I assume this will
not produce bits in the water if it is run alone)

Now flush the loo

Wait 10 minutes without running any water anywhere.

turn off water in the road

now place a bucket under your kitchen tap and turn the cold on to
release the pressure

Do you get any bits, and how much water came out?

when the water has stopped (or slowed to a trickle) empty the bucket
and then leave the tap on with the bucket underneath and flush the
loo

the water in the pipe to the loft should now empty into the bucket -
any bits in there now?

Toby....

lol... I'll have to wait until later this evening to try that
experiment as there is zero chance the others in the house right now
can go so long without using water somewhere. If there are bits
present, what will this indicate?

If it all runs clear, then it does demonstrate it is probably not in the
house, as if you run clean water through it, then shout off the mains water,
then drain down your system, and it is all clean, then any dead legs that
could be causing a problem, should demonstrate their problem in this test.

Toby...

On Jun 23, 5:30*pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 4:31 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 3:15 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 2:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
None wrote:
On Jun 23, 1:58 pm, "Toby" wrote:
Thanks for the detailed advice chaps, I think I will do
neverwas' stopcock experiment first. What seems to happen is
the tap that is put on first at full whack will have minimal
debris, while the tap that is opened second (also at max but
with a trickle flow) will be filled with it. I guess when I
get home I'll have to play around and see what happens when
both taps are on at half power etc.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether
or not the tap in our side passage is opened first or second,
it is the tap which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run
the kitchen tap full whack then nip outside and open the side
passage tap to full, it comes on at full pressure while the
kitchen tap will trickle. And interestingly, a load of dirt
comes out of the side passage tap at the high pressure in
addition to the kitchen tap's dirt content with the trickle
flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Makes sense to me!

Just had another thought - what type of boiler do you have in
your property? Is it a sealed system with a pressure guage on
or near the boiler?

If so, what is the pressure showing on the gauge when all your
taps are off, then again after you turn the water off in the
road and then run the taps to relese any pressure in the
system?

Toby...

No, its not a sealed system, regular old boiler....

Okay - so you should have a smaller header tank for the boiler?
Is the water inlet to this tank above the water level?

Toby...

Do you mean the small expansion tank beside the main water tank in
the attic?

Yes, this one keeps your radiator circuit topped up, and absorbs
any contraction and expantion in the system due to the water
heating, so may contain nasty brown water!

This tank will have a mains water feed to it, but this must be
above the water line, just like the main tank - is it?

Toby...

I'll have a check when I get home... its tricky to get to, as the
flooring aint the most secure up there. But surely that couldn't be
siphoning water down to the tap?!

It depends on the type of valve, it is certainly not impossible.
Not that likely, but again, until you find the cause of the problem,
you need to rule out as much as you can.

Another test for you to try if that looks all OK...

Run the cold water in the kitchen for 1 minute (I assume this will
not produce bits in the water if it is run alone)

Now flush the loo

Wait 10 minutes without running any water anywhere.

turn off water in the road

now place a bucket under your kitchen tap and turn the cold on to
release the pressure

Do you get any bits, and how much water came out?

when the water has stopped (or slowed to a trickle) empty the bucket
and then leave the tap on with the bucket underneath and flush the
loo

the water in the pipe to the loft should now empty into the bucket -
any bits in there now?

Toby....

lol... I'll have to wait until later this evening to try that
experiment as there is zero chance the others in the house right now
can go so long without using water somewhere. If there are bits
present, what will this indicate?

If it all runs clear, then it does demonstrate it is probably not in the
house, as if you run clean water through it, then shout off the mains water,
then drain down your system, and it is all clean, then any dead legs that
could be causing a problem, should demonstrate their problem in this test..

Toby...

Well, I shall certainly give it a go later on. I was thinking of
getting my plumber over soon if I'm still stumped, but he will be too
probably! We have had issues with the supply for years and nobody knew
what to tell me, its only now that I have more or less pinpointed when
it is occurring that I may stand a chance of having it rectified.

Ok, just went home for lunch hour and tested this out. Whether or not
the tap in our side passage is opened first or second, it is the tap
which is allocated the pressure. So, if I run the kitchen tap full
whack then nip outside and open the side passage tap to full, it comes
on at full pressure while the kitchen tap will trickle. And
interestingly, a load of dirt comes out of the side passage tap at the
high pressure in addition to the kitchen tap's dirt content with the
trickle flow.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm finding this tough to explain...

Just down from the ladder:

o makes sense so far;
o I'd rather assumed you got a greater flow with both taps open 'cos
they both gushed. From what you say now, I assume the side passage tap
gives a much greater flow than the kitchen tap can - eg the passage
tap fills a bucket significantly faster than the kitchen tap. That's
the only way I can see that opening the 2 taps together can give you a
greater total flow and so flush debris from the company's pipe.


--
R