Bob Mannix wrote:


Two colleauges went to a conference in Germany, for one his first trip
there. " There seem to be a lot of roads called Einbahnstrasse", he said ...
pause while penny dropped ... "oh, ah, I see, I'll get my coat..."


And that huge city Ausfahrt - every autobahn seems to lead to it.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Frank Erskine wrote:
Other irritations:
less/fewer
lie down/lay down
me/myself
lens/lense
lend/borrow
disinterested/uninterested
x times less
x times more/x times as many
didn't used to

Lath/lathe

Haitch. With the leading letter aspirated.

Andy

Alang wrote:

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:22:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The day the BBC allowed some of those dreadful common oiks into the
newsrooms was the the day standards went out of the window.
The whole country used to be grateful to have a single standard, where
they could hear their betters speak and aspire for their offspring to
have a decent education and be able to speak like that also.

Its all part of the 'lets pretend that the country can be run and
governed by people who are as stupid as the worst member of the
electorate'

So you actually think an accent reflects intelligence or ability?


No, but it reflects an adherence to standards that is in itself
reasonably laudable. And something intelligent people understand the
need for.

So you want someone to use your accent rather than just be able to
speak clearly and use the words correctly and in the correct order.
Possibly you hate Wilfred Pickles

The current ethos is 'standards make people feel inferior, or superior
and so we shouldn't have any'.

I'd trade a bit of wounded or misplaced vanity for competence any day.

Competence in the use of language is not dependant on accent. The
clearest speaker I ever heard was a Scot from the Northern part of
Scotland. He did not use words like loranorder or droring unlike some
RP speakers we hear on the broadcasts.

Why do Southerners confuse batter with butter?

The lore and drore stuff puts my teeth on edge. Southern friends don't
notice it.

In message , Bob Mannix
writes
"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...
A sikh family moved into a house a few street away, a rare thing in
those
days. The word "gnikrapon" was painted on the wooden garage doors
shortly
afterwards.

Me & my mates assumed that this was some mysterious Indian word & we all
wondered what on earth it meant. It took us months to realise he had
tried
to write "noparking" in mirror writing & not got it right.


We used to have an Indian restaurant in town which was set back off the
road. You could drive up to the doors and order the take away.
The sign said "Mum taz" which we all assumed to be the name of the
restaurant and therefore called it that for years. Then an Indian film on
TV showed a car park in Dehli with a sign that said "Car Park" then "Mum
Taz" underneath.

Two colleauges went to a conference in Germany, for one his first trip
there. " There seem to be a lot of roads called Einbahnstrasse", he said ...
pause while penny dropped ... "oh, ah, I see, I'll get my coat..."


I said it before, but it'll fit in here nicely

When I lived in Germany, one of the other recently arrived UK expats got
stopped by the polizei and asked where he lived ...

"Weisses Lamm (A hotel)
Einbahnstrasse
Lauf"

was his reply


--
geoff

In message
,
mike writes
On Mar 4, 3:21*pm, mike wrote:

What's the name of the law that states that anyone attempting to
correct anyone else's grammar will inevitably make another mistake?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law

or Google for "Muphry's Law"... and note spelling!

I know it by another name - can't remember what it is though


--
geoff

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:17:11 +0000, Arfa Daily wrote:

Two colleauges went to a conference in Germany, for one his first trip
there. " There seem to be a lot of roads called Einbahnstrasse", he
said ... pause while penny dropped ... "oh, ah, I see, I'll get my coat..."

Announcer on the radio this morning: "Schumann's 'Stücke im Volkston',
pieces from folk music. Or 'Stuck in Folkstone' as one player used to
call it!".

--
John Stumbles

Many hands make light work. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:22:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I'd trade a bit of wounded or misplaced vanity for competence any day.

Heh! - plus ca change: remember Tom Lehrer, back in the - what, 60s? 70s? -
quipping how the US Army has abolished discrimination on the grounds not
only of creed and colour but also ability?!

--
John Stumbles

A backstreet vasectomy left me sterile

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , nightjar
writes

"Tim S" wrote in message
.. .
S Viemeister coughed up some electrons that declared:

Lead and led are often misused.
"I" where "me" should be used.
"would of" "had of" "could of"

They should return to teaching Latin... At least you leave with the
concept
that something called "grammar" exists.

While I did study Latin, we also had one entire year of English Language
tuition devoted to grammar. It was worth 15 percent in the O level and our
teacher worked on the principle that, if we got full marks on the grammar
question, it was virtually impossible to score so badly on essay and précis
as to fail the exam. It also helped us to prepare for the Use of English
exam, which was a university entrance requirement.

Likewise at a county grammar. Teachers still in their demob suits and
either not very able or they were dealing with poor material. Latin was
an entrance requirement for university but I was ejected from the group
after one year.

Living in Hertfordshire, I have got used to *must ov* and *off ov*. The
latter relating to some minor TV celebrity.

My bete noir, already mentioned, is the BBC and misuse of
bought/brought!

Can you borrow me a fiver?


--
geoff

On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:18:05 +0000, Ian White wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Lath/lathe

Not sure they are not alternatives in the case of strips of wood.

Only to some UK builders and DIYers.

If you want a "lathe and plaster" ceiling, on your own head be it.

It'd give you a nasty turn.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 18:28:26 -0000, John wrote:

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message

If only it was possible to remove arseholes from local councils.

This morning (8.15am) I was driving my car to get to work and was stuck in
an almighty traffic jam. I thought there must be an accident or something
similar as this particular road is never that bad. After a couple of miles
the road opens out to a dual carrageway so things start moving a bit
quiicker, imagine my suprise when I get to the front only to see a road
sweeper doing 5mph (?) holding the traffic up! I rang the council
(Wakefield) to ask why the road was being swept during the busiest time of
the day only to be told the driver was off ill yesterday so he was sent out
first thing to catch up!!!

F**k me do they not have an ounce of sense between them!

John

Saw a big sweeper in a nearby village - it was spreading the debris out on
to the road and leaving it there. Stopped it, told the dimdroid what was
happening and was told that he had to do it to keep up.
I mentioned that there was a fault and that the mess was a danger to the
public (in simple terms) so he went off to get the machine repaired.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

In message , Rod
writes
Bob Mannix wrote:

Two colleauges went to a conference in Germany, for one his first
trip there. " There seem to be a lot of roads called Einbahnstrasse",
said ... pause while penny dropped ... "oh, ah, I see, I'll get my
coat..."

And that huge city Ausfahrt - every autobahn seems to lead to it.

It's a consequence of their diet ...

--
geoff

mike wrote:
On Mar 3, 2:36 pm, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

If only it was possible to remove arseholes from local councils.


If only it *were* possible to remove arseholes from local councils.

It's subjunctive.

What's the name of the law that states that anyone attempting to
correct anyone else's grammar will inevitably make another mistake?

(And have I unintentionally done so myself?)

Well the original is grammatically correct, but has different meaning
If only it was possible, to do it last year.. although 'had been' would
be better possibly..shades of meaning.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The day the BBC allowed some of those dreadful common oiks into the
newsrooms was the the day standards went out of the window. The
whole country used to be grateful to have a single standard, where
they could hear their betters speak and aspire for their offspring
to have a decent education and be able to speak like that also.
Its all part of the 'lets pretend that the country can be run and
governed by people who are as stupid as the worst member of the
electorate'
So you actually think an accent reflects intelligence or ability?


No, but it reflects an adherence to standards that is in itself
reasonably laudable. And something intelligent people understand the
need for.

The current ethos is 'standards make people feel inferior, or superior
and so we shouldn't have any'.

I'd trade a bit of wounded or misplaced vanity for competence any day.

Obviously you've not given this much thought. 'The standard BBC accent'
which was referred to was nothing like the best choice if intelligibility
was the issue. It was simply the one of the upper classes in the south of
England. And when heard now sounds very dated.

Everyone has an accent. And if 'standard English' is stuck to rigorously,
the language would never evolve which would be equally ludicrous.

Its not 'accent'. Its correct and clear enunciation and pronunciation.

I've no objection to 'Gie's a wee dram' instead of 'Might I have a small
scotch'

But not on national radio, or TV, when the aim is to reach the largest
number of people.

Alang wrote:
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:22:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The day the BBC allowed some of those dreadful common oiks into the
newsrooms was the the day standards went out of the window.
The whole country used to be grateful to have a single standard, where
they could hear their betters speak and aspire for their offspring to
have a decent education and be able to speak like that also.
Its all part of the 'lets pretend that the country can be run and
governed by people who are as stupid as the worst member of the
electorate'
So you actually think an accent reflects intelligence or ability?

No, but it reflects an adherence to standards that is in itself
reasonably laudable. And something intelligent people understand the
need for.

So you want someone to use your accent rather than just be able to
speak clearly and use the words correctly and in the correct order.
Possibly you hate Wilfred Pickles
The current ethos is 'standards make people feel inferior, or superior
and so we shouldn't have any'.

I'd trade a bit of wounded or misplaced vanity for competence any day.

Competence in the use of language is not dependant on accent. The
clearest speaker I ever heard was a Scot from the Northern part of
Scotland. He did not use words like loranorder or droring unlike some
RP speakers we hear on the broadcasts.

Why do Southerners confuse batter with butter?

Not talking about accent. Dav was, it seems. Its correct pronunciation
and grammar, that's all.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Alang wrote:
Competence in the use of language is not dependant on accent. The
clearest speaker I ever heard was a Scot from the Northern part of
Scotland. He did not use words like loranorder or droring unlike some
RP speakers we hear on the broadcasts.

Yup. The clearest pronunciation of all in the UK comes with an accent from
the NE of Scotland. Not to be confused with the dialect from there,
obviously. 'BBC perceived pronunciation' is actually quite poor. Too many
words with different meanings sounding the same. Wales and whales being
the obvious one.

whereas in scotland, its whales and wheels... ;-)

Owain wrote:
Rod wrote:
And that huge city Ausfahrt - every autobahn seems to lead to it.

Lots of footpaths in Wales lead to the pretty village of Cyfleusterau
Cyhoeddus

Owain


I always thought that meant 'don't shag the sheep'

Andy Champ wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
Other irritations:
less/fewer
lie down/lay down
me/myself
lens/lense
lend/borrow
disinterested/uninterested
x times less
x times more/x times as many
didn't used to

Lath/lathe

Haitch. With the leading letter aspirated.

Andy

'ighly traditional, that.

John Stumbles wrote:
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:17:11 +0000, Arfa Daily wrote:

Two colleauges went to a conference in Germany, for one his first trip
there. " There seem to be a lot of roads called Einbahnstrasse", he
said ... pause while penny dropped ... "oh, ah, I see, I'll get my coat..."

Announcer on the radio this morning: "Schumann's 'Stücke im Volkston',
pieces from folk music. Or 'Stuck in Folkstone' as one player used to
call it!".

Gardenrs question time always cracks me up

"...and the producer was joking"

Bob Mannix wrote:

Two colleauges went to a conference in Germany, for one his first trip
there. " There seem to be a lot of roads called Einbahnstrasse", he said ...
pause while penny dropped ... "oh, ah, I see, I'll get my coat..."

A decade or two ago I was working around Germany. I got used to
memorising street names, particularly the name of the street that the
hotel was on so that if I got lost I could hop in a Taxi and get back to
the right hotel - I'd found in the past that some cities have three or
four hotels from the same chain (Holiday Inn etc).

And in Wiesbaden it happened, got lost on the far side of the Kurhaus
from the hotel. I stopped someone and asked for directions - where to? -
"Holiday Inn, Einbahnstraße."

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Alang wrote:
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:22:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The day the BBC allowed some of those dreadful common oiks into the
newsrooms was the the day standards went out of the window.
The whole country used to be grateful to have a single standard,
where
they could hear their betters speak and aspire for their offspring to
have a decent education and be able to speak like that also.
Its all part of the 'lets pretend that the country can be run and
governed by people who are as stupid as the worst member of the
electorate'
So you actually think an accent reflects intelligence or ability?

No, but it reflects an adherence to standards that is in itself
reasonably laudable. And something intelligent people understand the
need for.

So you want someone to use your accent rather than just be able to
speak clearly and use the words correctly and in the correct order.
Possibly you hate Wilfred Pickles
The current ethos is 'standards make people feel inferior, or superior
and so we shouldn't have any'.

I'd trade a bit of wounded or misplaced vanity for competence any day.

Competence in the use of language is not dependant on accent. The
clearest speaker I ever heard was a Scot from the Northern part of
Scotland. He did not use words like loranorder or droring unlike some
RP speakers we hear on the broadcasts. Why do Southerners confuse batter
with butter?

Not talking about accent. Dav was, it seems. Its correct pronunciation and
grammar, that's all.

What's the "correct" pronunciation of Castle, Grass, etc then? The old BBC
RP would only have it one way, whereas there's at least two valid ways of
saying those words. Accent is very pertinent to pronunciation.

In uk.d-i-y, Rod wrote:
Bob Mannix wrote:

Two colleauges went to a conference in Germany, for one his first
trip there. " There seem to be a lot of roads called Einbahnstrasse",
he said ... pause while penny dropped ... "oh, ah, I see, I'll get my
coat..."

And that huge city Ausfahrt - every autobahn seems to lead to it.

In Holland I was surprised never to see a sign announcing my arrival at
Doorgang Verkeer, despite following lots of signs pointing the way to
it.

--
Mike Barnes

Arfa Daily wrote:
"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:24:52 +0000, Dave
wrote:

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Garage around here with 'Keep Cleer' painted on the doors.
That reminds me of my early apprenticeship days.

I was designated to learn/work in an offshoot of the tool room in a
press shop. They had a cupboard there and on the front were the words

Kee
Pout

There's a local print firm near here with an enormous sign on the side
of their building advertising, inter alia, "Vehical Signs".

--
Frank Erskine

My god ! It's even worse than I suspected ... Lots of funny stories here -
until, that is, you actually take time to stop and think about them, and
then it stops being quite so funny. I am seriously saddened that a once
great teaching system, has now reached the point where it is turning out
people who know so little as to not realise that these things are wrong. A
lad I know is now a teacher himself. He used to come to our house (he was
friends with our son) and say "I brought a new game for my computer today"
and I used to say "No (Andy), you *bought* a new game, and then you
*brought* it home". I wonder how many kids in North London are now growing
up with that little gem in their limited comprehension of the language ?

Such is the way language evolves - there will come a time where their
way is "correct" and the right way is archaic.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:
On 3 Mar, 10:52, Janet Tweedy wrote:
In article , Arfa Daily
writes

Yeah. That and "loose" for "lose" are two that really get me ...
Arfa
Not 'arf' as much as infer and imply!!
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraphhttp://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

At a more mundane level, "should of" instead of "should have" is
becoming ubiquitous.

A furniture store near me sells "Sofa's Chairs, and table's"
apparently.

At my local builder's merchant I recently asked if they had "free
doors" in stock. They said they had, so I said I would take 4 of them.

Another time, while ordering some 4x2 timber they asked me what "lemf"
I wanted. I said I had no idea as I didn't know what a "lemf" was.

And why do so many builders refer to length, width, and highth?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Everyone has an accent. And if 'standard English' is stuck to rigorously,
the language would never evolve which would be equally ludicrous.

and be called French ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

geoff wrote:

My bete noir, already mentioned, is the BBC and misuse of bought/brought!

Can you borrow me a fiver?

or using "itch" in place of "scratch"



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:16:46 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

What have we done to the ederkayshun in this country ?

Seen in a shop window when I just took a wander down to the village centre
:-

"WE HAVE MOVED A CROSSED THE ROAD"

It's enough to make you weep ...

The worse one I remember was "LOOK RIHGT" painted on the road at a
pedestrian crossing.

or

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35393854@N00/1409351331/
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.p...9a680/502d1321

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The day the BBC allowed some of those dreadful common oiks into the
newsrooms was the the day standards went out of the window. The
whole country used to be grateful to have a single standard, where
they could hear their betters speak and aspire for their offspring
to have a decent education and be able to speak like that also.
Its all part of the 'lets pretend that the country can be run and
governed by people who are as stupid as the worst member of the
electorate'
So you actually think an accent reflects intelligence or ability?


No, but it reflects an adherence to standards that is in itself
reasonably laudable. And something intelligent people understand the
need for.

The current ethos is 'standards make people feel inferior, or
superior and so we shouldn't have any'.

I'd trade a bit of wounded or misplaced vanity for competence any day.

Obviously you've not given this much thought. 'The standard BBC accent'
which was referred to was nothing like the best choice if intelligibility
was the issue. It was simply the one of the upper classes in the south of
England. And when heard now sounds very dated.

Everyone has an accent. And if 'standard English' is stuck to rigorously,
the language would never evolve which would be equally ludicrous.

Its not 'accent'. Its correct and clear enunciation and pronunciation.

Like John Thaw in Morse. I could listen to him talking for quite a long
time.

I've no objection to 'Gie's a wee dram' instead of 'Might I have a small
scotch'

Like Kevin Whately, again in Morse. One has no accent, the other has a
North East accent, but both enunciate very well.

But not on national radio, or TV, when the aim is to reach the largest
number of people.

So why do we have to put up with Johnathon Woss and that other
Lancashire accented announcer on one of those police chase programms?

Woss can't be arsed to use the letter R and the other persistently uses
the glottal stop instead of the letter T.

Dave

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Alang wrote:
Competence in the use of language is not dependant on accent. The
clearest speaker I ever heard was a Scot from the Northern part of
Scotland. He did not use words like loranorder or droring unlike some
RP speakers we hear on the broadcasts.

Yup. The clearest pronunciation of all in the UK comes with an accent from
the NE of Scotland.

Not too far North though. I used to work with someone from that area and
that was when I realised how good and clear they spoke. It was somewhere
just above Edinburgh.

Dave

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Arfa Daily"
saying something like:

It is so common to hear this on the TV now, even from people that you
would
otherwise consider to be 'well-spoken' and well educated.

tongue wedged
The day the BBC allowed some of those dreadful common oiks into the
newsrooms was the the day standards went out of the window.

What standards are those?

The whole country used to be grateful to have a single standard, where
they could hear their betters speak and aspire for their offspring to
have a decent education and be able to speak like that also.

Wow, such a sycophant. This one will make a good case study.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The day the BBC allowed some of those dreadful common oiks into the
newsrooms was the the day standards went out of the window.
The whole country used to be grateful to have a single standard, where
they could hear their betters speak and aspire for their offspring to
have a decent education and be able to speak like that also.

Its all part of the 'lets pretend that the country can be run and
governed by people who are as stupid as the worst member of the
electorate'

So you actually think an accent reflects intelligence or ability?

No, but it reflects an adherence to standards that is in itself reasonably
laudable. And something intelligent people understand the need for.

The current ethos is 'standards make people feel inferior, or superior and
so we shouldn't have any'.

What are these standards and who makes them? Is it a BS?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The day the BBC allowed some of those dreadful common oiks into the
newsrooms was the the day standards went out of the window. The
whole country used to be grateful to have a single standard, where
they could hear their betters speak and aspire for their offspring
to have a decent education and be able to speak like that also.
Its all part of the 'lets pretend that the country can be run and
governed by people who are as stupid as the worst member of the
electorate'
So you actually think an accent reflects intelligence or ability?


No, but it reflects an adherence to standards that is in itself
reasonably laudable. And something intelligent people understand the
need for.

The current ethos is 'standards make people feel inferior, or superior
and so we shouldn't have any'.

I'd trade a bit of wounded or misplaced vanity for competence any day.

Obviously you've not given this much thought. 'The standard BBC accent'
which was referred to was nothing like the best choice if intelligibility
was the issue. It was simply the one of the upper classes in the south of
England. And when heard now sounds very dated.

Everyone has an accent. And if 'standard English' is stuck to rigorously,
the language would never evolve which would be equally ludicrous.

Its not 'accent'. Its correct and clear enunciation and pronunciation.

It isn't it is an accent. Typical of snotty uni people to say that.

But not on national radio, or TV, when the aim is to reach the largest
number of people.

You mean teach them a snotty uni accent.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Everyone has an accent. And if 'standard English' is stuck to
rigorously, the language would never evolve which would be equally
ludicrous.

Its not 'accent'. Its correct and clear enunciation and pronunciation.

Everyone has an accent.

I've no objection to 'Gie's a wee dram' instead of 'Might I have a small
scotch'

That's dialect.

But not on national radio, or TV, when the aim is to reach the largest
number of people.

So you want all dramas played by actors using your favourite accent?

--
*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:57:43 +0000, Dave
wrote:


Like John Thaw in Morse.

That would be 'dit dah dah dah dah dah dah dit dit dit dit dah
dit dah dit dit dit dit dit dah dit dah dah


HTH -

--
Frank Erskine

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Not talking about accent. Dav was, it seems. Its correct pronunciation
and grammar, that's all.

Accent and pronunciation go together.

--
*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Yup. The clearest pronunciation of all in the UK comes with an accent
from the NE of Scotland. Not to be confused with the dialect from
there, obviously. 'BBC perceived pronunciation' is actually quite
poor. Too many words with different meanings sounding the same. Wales
and whales being the obvious one.

whereas in scotland, its whales and wheels... ;-)

So you consider a cockney and geordie accent the same?

--
*A cubicle is just a padded cell without a door.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
et...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Everyone has an accent. And if 'standard English' is stuck to rigorously,
the language would never evolve which would be equally ludicrous.

and be called French ;-)

English does not derive from French. Duh!

Clive George wrote:


What's the "correct" pronunciation of Castle, Grass, etc then?

I would think that would depend a lot on which part of England you live in.

The 'a' in both words would be pronounced as long soft ones in the
South. Up here, in the North, we use the harder short way.

Grass, in the South would come over as 'graaass, where as in Lancashire
it would come over as 'grass' the 'a' would sound more like the a in has.

What I can't understand is why the South has not got to grips with the
term 'bacon butty'? " granddaughters live in Portsmouth and everytime
they visit we have to stop them saying a bacon sandwhich and get them to
call it a bacon butty.

Look on the internet and it is a common term when describing 2 pieces of
bread, buttered and served with bacon between. I was on a web site this
afternoon promoting bacon and even they called it a butty.



Dave

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , nightjar
writes

"Tim S" wrote in message
. ..
S Viemeister coughed up some electrons that declared:

Lead and led are often misused.
"I" where "me" should be used.
"would of" "had of" "could of"

They should return to teaching Latin... At least you leave with the
concept
that something called "grammar" exists.

While I did study Latin, we also had one entire year of English Language
tuition devoted to grammar. It was worth 15 percent in the O level and
our
teacher worked on the principle that, if we got full marks on the grammar
question, it was virtually impossible to score so badly on essay and
précis
as to fail the exam. It also helped us to prepare for the Use of English
exam, which was a university entrance requirement.

Likewise at a county grammar. Teachers still in their demob suits and
either not very able or they were dealing with poor material. Latin was an
entrance requirement for university but I was ejected from the group after
one year.

Living in Hertfordshire, I have got used to *must ov* and *off ov*. The
latter relating to some minor TV celebrity.

My bete noir, already mentioned, is the BBC and misuse of bought/brought!

Can you borrow me a fiver?

Maxie, I never knew you were so broke! If I saw you in the street I would
give you a fiver Maxie. I would give it to you. If all I had in the world
was two pies I would give you one. Did the bailiffs take your pies?

Maxie, my heart goes out to you. How do you feel Maxie? How do you feel.
Of course, next is the gutter.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
Yup. The clearest pronunciation of all in the UK comes with an accent
from the NE of Scotland.

Not too far North though. I used to work with someone from that area and
that was when I realised how good and clear they spoke. It was somewhere
just above Edinburgh.

Much further north than that - Buchan. Peterhead area.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:22:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The day the BBC allowed some of those dreadful common oiks into the
newsrooms was the the day standards went out of the window.
The whole country used to be grateful to have a single standard, where
they could hear their betters speak and aspire for their offspring to
have a decent education and be able to speak like that also.

Its all part of the 'lets pretend that the country can be run and
governed by people who are as stupid as the worst member of the
electorate'

So you actually think an accent reflects intelligence or ability?


No, but it reflects an adherence to standards that is in itself
reasonably laudable. And something intelligent people understand the
need for.

Bang!
Ah, but what standards?
Was a time when starting a sentence with a conjunction would have
marked you down as an illiterate oaf ( the irony here being that my
spellchecker corrected my spelling of illiterate ).
That's the rub really, how d'you define a standard for something so
fluid - and what happens when the standard-bearers are flying the
wrong flag?

As with most discussions about language/grammar it's as well to take
a gun and shoot yourself in the foot before you enter the debate - it
saves time ( see above ).

The current ethos is 'standards make people feel inferior, or superior
and so we shouldn't have any'.

I feel the current ethos seems to be to 'celebrate' the mundane, and
as such that becomes part of the 'public consciousness' - so in that
respect I suppose the statement stands.

On the flip side it works both ways.
I was browsing in a charity shop recently and my attention was caught
by a rather vociferous child who was rooting through a box of toys.
I'd say he was around six or seven years old, and as he pulled out a
certain toy he exclaimed in a painfully cultured accent "Oh, this is
broken - this will never do!".
He wittered on at some length along the same lines, and I couldn't
help but feel that he was old before his time.
The innocence of childhood is such a fragile thing - and whether your
weapon of choice is a baseball bat or a rod of steel makes little
difference in the long run.

I guess there's a natural balance - one we've perhaps lost touch with
in recent years - but then again it's perhaps always been that way.
The Pythons with their philosophising washerwomen spring to mind.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard
Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk