I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e. instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much
more expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

How may would you like? I can give you at least three.

But for a sensible answer I would need to know estimated annual mileage,
how long you intend to keep the car, and your driving style. The last
at least I cannot possibly know.

Andy

Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much
more expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

...and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:17:42 -0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

With 170bhp and 400Nm torque, mine performs just fine.
Also, motorway cruising at 70-ish, it delivers around 50mpg.

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:03:14 +0000, Appelation Controlee wrote:
Also, motorway cruising at 70-ish, it delivers around 50mpg.

How's that compare to an average petrol car in terms of fuel cost only?
I've lost the plot as to what's going on with UK fuel prices these days

Jules wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:03:14 +0000, Appelation Controlee wrote:
Also, motorway cruising at 70-ish, it delivers around 50mpg.

How's that compare to an average petrol car in terms of fuel cost only?
I've lost the plot as to what's going on with UK fuel prices these days


Think of it as using about 30% less fuel, but paying 15% more per litre
than petrol. Overall, the fuel advantage is about 15%.

Servicing a diesel costs less, at least until you need to replace a
turbo, diesel cars being more likely to have a turbo than petrol cars.

A diesel car costs less to tax than a similar capacity petrol model
because of the lower CO2 emissions. However, you can usually get away
with a smaller petrol engine for the same performance.

A diesel car costs a little more to buy but depreciates less.

My last two cars have been diesels but my next will be a petrol. The
higher cost of a litre of diesel means that the cost advantage over
petrol is a lot less than it used to be, and the driveability is still
nowhere near as good.

Appelation Controlee wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:17:42 -0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve
Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..
..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

With 170bhp and 400Nm torque, mine performs just fine.
Also, motorway cruising at 70-ish, it delivers around 50mpg.

try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:57:59 -0000, a certain chimpanzee, "Mr Sandman"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e. instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

IME diesels give about 40% better MPG than petrol, and with diesel
currently about 12p/litre more than petrol, it's still less on fuel
costs. However, there are other costs to consider such as the initial
purchase price and any additional servicing. The higher your annual
mileage the less these are a factor.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:17:42 -0000, a certain chimpanzee, "Doctor
Drivel" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

Yes, that is something in diesel's favour.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..


If you think can get one of those for the price of a Ford Focus 1.4, you
are even more stupid than I thought.

Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..

If you think can get one of those for the price of a Ford Focus 1.4, you
are even more stupid than I thought.

New Focus 1.4 - list up to about £11k, depending on spec.

Citroen C6 - same v6 diesel engine as the Jag XF, and there's a 35k mile
56-plate on AutoTrader for £12k.

Adrian wrote:
Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..

If you think can get one of those for the price of a Ford Focus 1.4, you
are even more stupid than I thought.

New Focus 1.4 - list up to about £11k, depending on spec.

Citroen C6 - same v6 diesel engine as the Jag XF, and there's a 35k mile
56-plate on AutoTrader for £12k.


Might have a similar engine but it isn't a Jaguar XF, not by a long way.

Bruce wrote:

Adrian wrote:
Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..

If you think can get one of those for the price of a Ford Focus 1.4, you
are even more stupid than I thought.

New Focus 1.4 - list up to about £11k, depending on spec.

Citroen C6 - same v6 diesel engine as the Jag XF, and there's a 35k mile
56-plate on AutoTrader for £12k.


Might have a similar engine but it isn't a Jaguar XF, not by a long way.

- and you are comparing secondhand with new.

Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..

If you think can get one of those for the price of a Ford Focus 1.4,
you are even more stupid than I thought.

New Focus 1.4 - list up to about £11k, depending on spec.

Citroen C6 - same v6 diesel engine as the Jag XF, and there's a 35k mile
56-plate on AutoTrader for £12k.

Might have a similar engine but it isn't a Jaguar XF, not by a long way.

Not similar - exact same.

And you're right, it's not. I'd far rather have the C6 - which'll be even
smoother with the hydropneumatic suspension.

And, yes, you're right. It's second hand. Congratulations. If you want to
lob a ****load away in depreciation on a new Focus that's so underpowered
it'll be unsaleable used, don't let me stop you...

Adrian wrote:

Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..

If you think can get one of those for the price of a Ford Focus 1.4,
you are even more stupid than I thought.

New Focus 1.4 - list up to about £11k, depending on spec.

Citroen C6 - same v6 diesel engine as the Jag XF, and there's a 35k mile
56-plate on AutoTrader for £12k.

Might have a similar engine but it isn't a Jaguar XF, not by a long way.

Not similar - exact same.

And you're right, it's not. I'd far rather have the C6 - which'll be even
smoother with the hydropneumatic suspension.

And, yes, you're right. It's second hand. Congratulations. If you want to
lob a ****load away in depreciation on a new Focus that's so underpowered
it'll be unsaleable used, don't let me stop you...


It's not me buying the car, and it's not my money. I have never bought
a Ford and never will. I'm merely pointing out that your "advice" is as
misleading as it is irrelevant. Utterly.

For the record, I wouldn't touch a Ford, a Citroen or a Jaguar. The
Jaguar XF might look flash (it is certainly an ugly brute) but the
engineering is all Ford. All three of these cars lack class and suffer
very high depreciation. I have a friend who manages a large Citroen
dealership and he tells me that UK sales of the C6 are pitiful. His
word, not mine. It has the highest depreciation of any model in the
executive class.

My current car is a Mercedes E Class. My last was an Audi A6. Both
diesels. My next will probably be another Audi, perhaps an A5, perhaps
petrol this time. But an A6 would be fine, or a new E Class.

Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

I have a friend who manages a large Citroen dealership and he tells me
that UK sales of the C6 are pitiful.

They're actually a lot higher than CitUK's predictions/expectations/
targets before the launch - and that estimate came direct from somebody
senior at CitUK direct to me before the launch.

It has the highest depreciation of any model in the executive class.

If you compare to list, sure. If you compare to the price you can buy a
new one for, no. £20k for a brand spanker is doable.

On 27 Jan 2009 07:34:50 GMT Adrian wrote :
It has the highest depreciation of any model in the executive class.

If you compare to list, sure. If you compare to the price you can buy
a new one for, no. £20k for a brand spanker is doable.

Yes, what matters is what you get for your car in (say) three years, v.
what you actually paid. Quite a few of the allegedly high depreciators
would, as you say, have been bought with a good discount, whilst AIUI
Audis and BMWs rarely come out of the showroom without a good few options.
When I looked aircon was an 'optional' extra on BMW Minis; I suspect that
the resale value of one without it is well below book price.

Best car for depreciation I ever had was my Skoda Felicia, bought new 1995
at list £6400 and sold to another Skoda dealer two and a half years later
for £4000 cash. When I traded my first Honda Jazz for an identical one
after three years the cost to change was just £4100.

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On 27 Jan 2009 07:34:50 GMT Adrian wrote :
It has the highest depreciation of any model in the executive class.

If you compare to list, sure. If you compare to the price you can buy
a new one for, no. £20k for a brand spanker is doable.

Yes, what matters is what you get for your car in (say) three years, v.
what you actually paid. Quite a few of the allegedly high depreciators
would, as you say, have been bought with a good discount, whilst AIUI
Audis and BMWs rarely come out of the showroom without a good few options.
When I looked aircon was an 'optional' extra on BMW Minis; I suspect that
the resale value of one without it is well below book price.

Best car for depreciation I ever had was my Skoda Felicia, bought new 1995
at list £6400 and sold to another Skoda dealer two and a half years later
for £4000 cash. When I traded my first Honda Jazz for an identical one
after three years the cost to change was just £4100.


I hired a Skoda Octavia diesel estate - it was completely flawless and the
fact that it was a diesel was, to all intents and purposes, undetectable. A
very good car if you are after vfm, I would say.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In article ,
Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much
more expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead?
I.e. instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

A little research will give the government fuel consumption figures for
each of these models - and although only a guide, is better than an
individual saying what their car's mpg is, as consumption is influenced by
driving conditions and style.
So some simple math will give the comparative fuel costs. You also need
to take into account purchase price and likely resale value - ie
depreciation. Diesels are generally better than petrol in this respect.

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Bruce wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..


If you think can get one of those for the price of a Ford Focus 1.4, you
are even more stupid than I thought.

Whatever made you think i said or thought that?.

I was merely pointing out that diesels don't *have* to be rough and noisy.

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
Jules wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:03:14 +0000, Appelation Controlee wrote:
Also, motorway cruising at 70-ish, it delivers around 50mpg.

How's that compare to an average petrol car in terms of fuel cost only?
I've lost the plot as to what's going on with UK fuel prices these days


Think of it as using about 30% less fuel, but paying 15% more per litre
than petrol. Overall, the fuel advantage is about 15%.

Servicing a diesel costs less, at least until you need to replace a
turbo, diesel cars being more likely to have a turbo than petrol cars.

A diesel car costs less to tax than a similar capacity petrol model
because of the lower CO2 emissions. However, you can usually get away
with a smaller petrol engine for the same performance.

A diesel car costs a little more to buy but depreciates less.

My last two cars have been diesels but my next will be a petrol. The
higher cost of a litre of diesel means that the cost advantage over
petrol is a lot less than it used to be, and the driveability is still
nowhere near as good.

Unless you do very high mileages, diesel cars are just not worth it. Then
there is drivability, noise, smelly, vibrations, agricultural sounds, etc.
A waste of time. They resell a bit more than petrol, but only because of
ignorance that diesels are somehow more reliable, which is an old wives
tale.

Then when a turbo goes, any financial advantage, which is so slim if any, is
shot to pieces.

Buy a Honda or Toyota petrol car. Economical and highly reliable. Preferably
buy a Prius.

"Hugo Nebula" abuse@localhost wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:57:59 -0000, a certain chimpanzee, "Mr Sandman"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

IME diesels give about 40% better MPG than petrol,

In wonderworld they might.

and with diesel
currently about 12p/litre more than petrol, it's still less on fuel
costs. However, there are other costs to consider such as the initial
purchase price and any additional servicing. The higher your annual
mileage the less these are a factor.

Getting better.

"Bruce" wrote in message
...

My current car is a Mercedes E Class.

You poor sod. They look like real knobheads cars. A German taxi.

My next will probably be another Audi,

Sense at last

perhaps an A5, perhaps
petrol this time. But an A6 would be fine, or a new E Class.

Oh no! He went worse again.

Try a Lexus. super reliability, economy and class.

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On 27 Jan 2009 07:34:50 GMT Adrian wrote :
It has the highest depreciation of any model in the executive class.

If you compare to list, sure. If you compare to the price you can buy
a new one for, no. £20k for a brand spanker is doable.

Yes, what matters is what you get for your car in (say) three years, v.
what you actually paid. Quite a few of the allegedly high depreciators
would, as you say, have been bought with a good discount, whilst AIUI
Audis and BMWs rarely come out of the showroom without a good few
options.
When I looked aircon was an 'optional' extra on BMW Minis; I suspect that
the resale value of one without it is well below book price.

Best car for depreciation I ever had was my Skoda Felicia, bought new
1995
at list £6400 and sold to another Skoda dealer two and a half years later
for £4000 cash. When I traded my first Honda Jazz for an identical one
after three years the cost to change was just £4100.


I hired a Skoda Octavia diesel estate - it was completely flawless and the
fact that it was a diesel was, to all intents and purposes, undetectable.
A very good car if you are after vfm, I would say.

It is an Audi underneath.

Huge wrote:
On 2009-01-27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bruce wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..

If you think can get one of those for the price of a Ford Focus 1.4, you
are even more stupid than I thought.

Whatever made you think i said or thought that?.

I was merely pointing out that diesels don't *have* to be rough and noisy.

Let me know when you find one that isn't, will you?


Well I just did..

I drive both.

A properly tuned and maintained turbodiesel is NOT a high emitter of
carbons or unburnt fuel, and neither is it especially noisy if injected
correctly.

I agree that diesels should probably be catalysed more than they
are..carbon particulates are not good, and many *poorly maintained*
commercial vehicles do emit a lot.

But for a car, its neither here nor there. They dont emit any by and
large, except at startup. but a petrol engine will also emit a cupful of
unburnt fuel from a cold start as well.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

A German taxi.


Sturdy, robust, safe, reliable, extremely comfortable. No wonder taxi
drivers (and their passengers) love them!


Try a Lexus. super reliability, economy and class.


As flash as a rat with a gold tooth. For people with no taste. Perfect
for Jaguar drivers who can no longer put up with unreliability.

.. Only, people
keep telling me "this diesel is a quiet as a petrol"

perhaps their new diesel is quieter than their old petrol engine..

On 26 Jan, 16:17, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in . net...

Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? *I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

Clearly you're still stuck in the 20th century

On 27 Jan, 10:42, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

there is drivability, noise, smelly, vibrations, agricultural sounds, etc.

Clearly you have not driven an Audi or similar marque produced in the
past 10 years or you would know that none of the above apply.

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...
On 27 Jan, 10:42, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

there is drivability, noise, smelly, vibrations, agricultural sounds,
etc.

Clearly you have not driven an Audi or similar marque produced in the
past 10 years or you would know that none of the above apply.

I drove a Peugeot turbo diesel. Diesel cars are waste of time for the many
reasons given.

"Bob Mannix" wrote:

I hired a Skoda Octavia diesel estate - it was completely flawless and the
fact that it was a diesel was, to all intents and purposes, undetectable. A
very good car if you are after vfm, I would say.


I own a Skoda Octavia diesel estate, and it certainly doesn't resemble
your description. It is noisy and harsh, with plenty of vibration.

There's nothing wrong with it. It has been this way from new, and they
are all like this. The same comment applies to VW, Audi and SEAT cars
using the same 1.9 and 2.0 litre VAG diesel engines.

But in its favour, it is reliable and economical. Ours has done 130,000
miles and still runs like new - it was noisy and harsh even then!

"Bruce" wrote in message
news
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

A German taxi.

Sturdy, robust, safe, reliable, extremely comfortable. No wonder taxi
drivers (and their passengers) love them!

May as well get London Black cab then.

Try a Lexus. super reliability, economy and class.

As flash as a rat with a gold tooth. For people with no taste.

Lexus are class - the sport versions look the part. BMWs and Mercs are for
the classless Rolex watch tattoo brigade. The Mercs are also for old bald
men too. Just look at the knobheads you see looking out of the windows of
the Merc E class. That does put people off. They are not reliable anymore,
so I don't know why people buy them. People bought Beetles because they
were reliable. So why buy an unreliable car that looks appalling and is over
priced and with a poor knobheads image.

The best for ride, economy, reliability and image is a Prius.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2009-01-27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Huge wrote:

I was merely pointing out that diesels don't *have* to be rough and
noisy.

Let me know when you find one that isn't, will you?


Well I just did..

I await being astonished when I finally see a diesel XF, then (*). Only,
people
keep telling me "this diesel is a quiet as a petrol" (the last time it was
BMW) and my response up until now has been "what are you, deaf?"

Mine is quiet except when at idle.
Its also smoother than the petrol engine cars I had before.
I don't know about reliability yet as I have only done 30,000 miles.

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...
On 26 Jan, 16:17, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in
. net...

Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much
more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

Clearly you're still stuck in the 20th century


No!!! Diesels are still just plain expensive crap. And the sound pollution
from them too. A street full them makes a hell of a racket. Start one up
in the morning and the neighbours wake up. There should be tighter laws on
sound pollution of vehicles.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote:
I hired a Skoda Octavia diesel estate - it was completely flawless and the
fact that it was a diesel was, to all intents and purposes, undetectable.
A very good car if you are after vfm, I would say.

It is an Audi underneath.


No, it isn't! The Octavia floorpan, body structure, suspension and
drivetrain are derived from the VW Golf. The same underpinnings can be
found under the SEAT Leon.

The Audi A3 is also derived from the VW Golf but there are significant
differences from the Skodas.

The Audi A4, A5, A6 and A8 have no relationship to any Skoda models
except that they use some of the same VAG (VW) engines and some minor
components. The floorpan, body structure, suspension and gearboxes are
all Audi designs.

On 27 Jan, 12:54, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"pcb1962" wrote in message

...

On 27 Jan, 10:42, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

there is drivability, noise, smelly, vibrations, agricultural sounds,
etc.

Clearly you have not driven an Audi or similar marque produced in the
past 10 years or you would know that none of the above apply.

I drove a Peugeot turbo diesel. *Diesel cars are waste of time for the many
reasons given.

there is drivability,

So Le Mans has been won for the past 3 years in a row by an
undriveable car?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10

noise, smelly, vibrations, agricultural sounds,

Take a trip to your local Audi dealer then come back and say these
again.
The vast majority of people would not be able to tell that my Audi is
a diesel, either from the outside or the inside.





noise, smelly, vibrations, agricultural sounds,

In article ,
Huge wrote:
I await being astonished when I finally see a diesel XF, then (*). Only,
people keep telling me "this diesel is a quiet as a petrol" (the last
time it was BMW) and my response up until now has been "what are you,
deaf?"

Sort of depends. All diesels tend to be noisy on a cold start and at idle.
But the better ones ain't that obvious from inside the car in normal
running.

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Clearly you have not driven an Audi or similar marque produced in the
past 10 years or you would know that none of the above apply.

I drove a Peugeot turbo diesel. Diesel cars are waste of time for the
many reasons given.

There's a difference between a delivery van and a car.

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

pcb1962 wrote:

Take a trip to your local Audi dealer then come back and say these
again.
The vast majority of people would not be able to tell that my Audi is
a diesel, either from the outside or the inside.


The idea that people cannot tell that these cars have diesel engines is
a complete myth.

My Audi A6 diesel (2.5 TDI V6) sounded like a truck. My Skoda Octavia
sounds even louder, as did its predecessor (2.0 followed 1.9 TDi). All
were noisy from new.