Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

For instance could I run my petrol lawnmower or petrol strimmer on it?

The problem arose after my neighbour came back with what he said was 10
gallons of road diesel after the garage said it was out of red diesel. I
filled both his and my tractor tanks with the stuff without noticing it
was petrol rather than diesel. If I hadn't had a stuffed up nose I would
have smelt the difference but as it was I didn't notice.

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(
(The wonder is that they will run at all).

We will have two jerry cans full of the stuff. I estimate one will be
about 90% petrol and the other about 60%.

If it is not suitable for running petrol engines how on earth can we
dispose of it?

I once burnt less than half a pint of petrol that had been lurking in a
meths bottle and there is no way I am going to burn a larger quantity.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:
Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

For instance could I run my petrol lawnmower or petrol strimmer on it?

shouldn't be too much of a bother for a 2-stroke.

Or, diluted enough, a 4 stroke.



The problem arose after my neighbour came back with what he said was 10
gallons of road diesel after the garage said it was out of red diesel. I
filled both his and my tractor tanks with the stuff without noticing it
was petrol rather than diesel. If I hadn't had a stuffed up nose I would
have smelt the difference but as it was I didn't notice.

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(
(The wonder is that they will run at all).

Yiu would be surprised what they WILL run on.


We will have two jerry cans full of the stuff. I estimate one will be
about 90% petrol and the other about 60%.

If it is not suitable for running petrol engines how on earth can we
dispose of it?

I once burnt less than half a pint of petrol that had been lurking in a
meths bottle and there is no way I am going to burn a larger quantity.


No, don't do that. Just top up tanks of petrol with it. I would not use
it in a cat equipped fuel injected modern car, but in an old briggs and
stratton its a fair additive. Just hope it doesn't go into diesel mode
and you cant stop it!!

Roger wrote:
Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

For instance could I run my petrol lawnmower or petrol strimmer on it?

The problem arose after my neighbour came back with what he said was 10
gallons of road diesel after the garage said it was out of red diesel. I
filled both his and my tractor tanks with the stuff without noticing it
was petrol rather than diesel. If I hadn't had a stuffed up nose I would
have smelt the difference but as it was I didn't notice.

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(
(The wonder is that they will run at all).

a diesel will run on high amounts of petrol I have tried it and it seem
to make little difference but dont tell my fleet management :-) ,
Vauxhall use to to tell you to add petrol in cold conditions to prevent
waxing up to 25% IIRC
We will have two jerry cans full of the stuff. I estimate one will be
about 90% petrol and the other about 60%.

add a little each time you fill up

If it is not suitable for running petrol engines how on earth can we
dispose of it?

I once burnt less than half a pint of petrol that had been lurking in a
meths bottle and there is no way I am going to burn a larger quantity.



--
Kevin R
Reply address works

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

You used to add petrol to diesel to stop it waxing.
I would imagine adding about 5% would undetectable to the engine.
However make sure its unleaded as some engines don't like leaded.

dennis@home wrote:


"Roger" wrote in message
k...
Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

You used to add petrol to diesel to stop it waxing.
I would imagine adding about 5% would undetectable to the engine.
However make sure its unleaded as some engines don't like leaded.

I doubt the tractor would care :-)


--
Kevin R
Reply address works

In article ,
Roger wrote:
Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

For instance could I run my petrol lawnmower or petrol strimmer on it?

No - but add it to a diesel about 1 part in three.

--
*Would a fly without wings be called a walk?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Roger wrote:

Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

I ran my 4 cyl. motorbike on diesel tainted petrol a few years ago.
A van driver had inadvertently filled his diesel van with petrol. Maybe
2 gallons of diesel, 13 petrol in a 15 gallon tank.
I grabbed the drained off drums to use as everyone else was on diesel at
this place.

The bike ran fine for most of the time. There would occasionally be a
splutter, but otherwise there wasnt a great deal of difference.
Think of it as extra upper cylinder lubricant.
One warning though, it may be best to avoid using it on an engine with a
catalyser, as unburnt fuel/oil can damage the cats internals.

Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Roger gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

For instance could I run my petrol lawnmower or petrol strimmer on it?

The problem arose after my neighbour came back with what he said was 10
gallons of road diesel after the garage said it was out of red diesel. I
filled both his and my tractor tanks with the stuff without noticing it
was petrol rather than diesel. If I hadn't had a stuffed up nose I would
have smelt the difference but as it was I didn't notice.

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-( (The wonder is that
they will run at all).

How modern a diesel tractor? Is it common rail? If not, just dilute it
with diesel, and run it through. It'll be fine. If it is, somebody else's
bargepole (or ancient Landy or spaceheater...)

On 15 Sep, 22:03, Roger wrote:

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(

They run fine on a mix of 1 petrol : 10 diesel, or up to 1 petrol : 3
diesel if pushed. In cold weather this is even standard practice
against waxing.

Diesels will also run on a mixture of old unleaded petrol, whilst
petrol cars are getting fussy about the poor storage qualities of
unleaded.

The message
from Adrian contains these words:

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-( (The wonder is that
they will run at all).

How modern a diesel tractor? Is it common rail? If not, just dilute it
with diesel, and run it through. It'll be fine. If it is, somebody else's
bargepole (or ancient Landy or spaceheater...)

Depends how you define modern. The Zetor is a D reg (1985?) and the
Kubota could easily be the same age. I wouldn't know a common rail if it
leapt up and bit me but I suspect that they are not that modern.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-( (The wonder is
that they will run at all).

How modern a diesel tractor? Is it common rail? If not, just dilute it
with diesel, and run it through. It'll be fine. If it is, somebody
else's bargepole (or ancient Landy or spaceheater...)

Depends how you define modern. The Zetor is a D reg (1985?) and the
Kubota could easily be the same age. I wouldn't know a common rail if it
leapt up and bit me but I suspect that they are not that modern.

No, that kind of age, you'll be safe. Common rail is the modern high-tech
high-pressure computerised injection that started to come out around 2000.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 15 Sep, 22:03, Roger wrote:

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(

They run fine on a mix of 1 petrol : 10 diesel, or up to 1 petrol : 3
diesel if pushed. In cold weather this is even standard practice
against waxing.

Diesels will also run on a mixture of old unleaded petrol, whilst
petrol cars are getting fussy about the poor storage qualities of
unleaded.

My mate runs his diesel car on vegetable oil. He reckons you should thin it
with white spirit in the winter.

He also maintains that the diesel engine was designed to run on vegetable
oil in the first place as diesel fuel wasn't commonly available in the late
1800's. Is that right?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 15 Sep, 22:03, Roger wrote:

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(
They run fine on a mix of 1 petrol : 10 diesel, or up to 1 petrol : 3
diesel if pushed. In cold weather this is even standard practice
against waxing.

Diesels will also run on a mixture of old unleaded petrol, whilst
petrol cars are getting fussy about the poor storage qualities of
unleaded.

My mate runs his diesel car on vegetable oil. He reckons you should thin it
with white spirit in the winter.

He also maintains that the diesel engine was designed to run on vegetable
oil in the first place as diesel fuel wasn't commonly available in the late
1800's. Is that right?


his first engines ran on peanut oil and he even thought about coal dust?

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:15:19 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 15 Sep, 22:03, Roger wrote:

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(

They run fine on a mix of 1 petrol : 10 diesel, or up to 1 petrol : 3
diesel if pushed. In cold weather this is even standard practice
against waxing.

Diesels will also run on a mixture of old unleaded petrol, whilst
petrol cars are getting fussy about the poor storage qualities of
unleaded.

My mate runs his diesel car on vegetable oil. He reckons you should thin it
with white spirit in the winter.

He also maintains that the diesel engine was designed to run on vegetable
oil in the first place as diesel fuel wasn't commonly available in the late
1800's. Is that right?

I wouldn't have thought it would have been freely available considering
Rudolf Diesel didn't patent his engine until 1893.

Don.

In message , Roger
writes
Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

I once burnt less than half a pint of petrol that had been lurking in a
meths bottle and there is no way I am going to burn a larger quantity.

Leave it and decant the diesel off. It separates out after a while and a
little petrol in the diesel won't do any harm unless it's used in a
common rail diesel engine.

A little diesel in the petrol won't do any harm to a strimmer or other
petrol powered thing although I don't know what it will do to a cat
equipped vehicle (I suspect not a lot but....).
--
Clint Sharp

Cerberus . wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:15:19 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 15 Sep, 22:03, Roger wrote:

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(

They run fine on a mix of 1 petrol : 10 diesel, or up to 1 petrol :
3 diesel if pushed. In cold weather this is even standard practice
against waxing.

Diesels will also run on a mixture of old unleaded petrol, whilst
petrol cars are getting fussy about the poor storage qualities of
unleaded.

My mate runs his diesel car on vegetable oil. He reckons you should
thin it with white spirit in the winter.

He also maintains that the diesel engine was designed to run on
vegetable oil in the first place as diesel fuel wasn't commonly
available in the late 1800's. Is that right?

I wouldn't have thought it would have been freely available
considering Rudolf Diesel didn't patent his engine until 1893.

I wonder when diesel fuel first became available then?

Bit like the tin opener not being invented for several years after tinned
food became available.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
He also maintains that the diesel engine was designed to run on vegetable
oil in the first place as diesel fuel wasn't commonly available in the late
1800's. Is that right?

Nope, it was designed to run on mineral oil but peanut oil was suggested
by a Frenchman as an alternative so the engines could be used in Africa
on locally produced fuel. Diesels will run on pretty much any old rough
rubbish but as they got more refined the fuel needed to run them needed
to be.


--
Clint Sharp

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
Cerberus . wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:15:19 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 15 Sep, 22:03, Roger wrote:

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(

They run fine on a mix of 1 petrol : 10 diesel, or up to 1 petrol :
3 diesel if pushed. In cold weather this is even standard practice
against waxing.

Diesels will also run on a mixture of old unleaded petrol, whilst
petrol cars are getting fussy about the poor storage qualities of
unleaded.

My mate runs his diesel car on vegetable oil. He reckons you should
thin it with white spirit in the winter.

He also maintains that the diesel engine was designed to run on
vegetable oil in the first place as diesel fuel wasn't commonly
available in the late 1800's. Is that right?

I wouldn't have thought it would have been freely available
considering Rudolf Diesel didn't patent his engine until 1893.

I wonder when diesel fuel first became available then?

Bit like the tin opener not being invented for several years after tinned
food became available.

Or ...

Pondering in my morning shower in Braunschwaig a couple of weeks ago

a letter in german is a "buchstabe"

so what did they call them before they had books ?

--
geoff

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Cerberus . wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:15:19 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 15 Sep, 22:03, Roger wrote:

Diesel tractors don't run very well on petrol. :-(
They run fine on a mix of 1 petrol : 10 diesel, or up to 1 petrol :
3 diesel if pushed. In cold weather this is even standard practice
against waxing.

Diesels will also run on a mixture of old unleaded petrol, whilst
petrol cars are getting fussy about the poor storage qualities of
unleaded.
My mate runs his diesel car on vegetable oil. He reckons you should
thin it with white spirit in the winter.

He also maintains that the diesel engine was designed to run on
vegetable oil in the first place as diesel fuel wasn't commonly
available in the late 1800's. Is that right?
I wouldn't have thought it would have been freely available
considering Rudolf Diesel didn't patent his engine until 1893.

I wonder when diesel fuel first became available then?

Bit like the tin opener not being invented for several years after tinned
food became available.


Earliest IC engines were quite peculiar.

I THINK the earliest was the gas engine..designed to run on 'town gas'
featuring red hot ceramic glow plugs to assist the ignition..a sort of
compression ignition engine: that predates the diesel a bit I think.

Then I have seen paraffin engines: paraffin was in use for lamps from
IIRC the mid 9th century onwards. Also alcohol engines. Moderm model
aircraft engines are alcohol engines with glow plugs.

I would guess that te sort of kerosene/paraffin type fuels were in use
before petrol was actually. The methane type gases from refining were a
waste product and burnt off at refineries and oil wells for a long time..

Clint Sharp wrote:
In message , Roger
writes
Is there any use for petrol contaminated with diesel?

I once burnt less than half a pint of petrol that had been lurking in a
meths bottle and there is no way I am going to burn a larger quantity.

Leave it and decant the diesel off. It separates out after a while

It most ceratinly does not.

and a
little petrol in the diesel won't do any harm unless it's used in a
common rail diesel engine.

A little diesel in the petrol won't do any harm to a strimmer or other
petrol powered thing although I don't know what it will do to a cat
equipped vehicle (I suspect not a lot but....).

The rest of your statements are good though.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
saying something like:

My mate runs his diesel car on vegetable oil. He reckons you should thin it
with white spirit in the winter.

A lot of ws, at a price. WS is a bit of a crock and it comes from the
myth spread around a few years ago via word of mouth. A couple of litres
of ws (as commonly recommended) doesn't magically thin a tankful of
vegoil to the right viscosity.

In the absence of a fully heated fuel system, I use a 50/50
vegoil/diesel mix in the winter, bringing it up to 70/30 vegoil/diesel
in the summer. To aid combustion and keep the injectors and chambers
clean, I add a half litre of unleaded and Dexron II per tankful.

He also maintains that the diesel engine was designed to run on vegetable
oil in the first place as diesel fuel wasn't commonly available in the late
1800's. Is that right?

That was a long time ago - modern CR diesels aren't worth fejcing around
with - too expensive if the pump goes tits up. Older (than 2000)
conventional diesels with conventional Bosch pumps are very tolerant of
some right old crap, but it must be clean and of the right viscosity.
Two of the best are the old Mercs (70s onwards, iirc) along with the
older Golfs.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

geoff wrote:

Pondering in my morning shower in Braunschwaig a couple of weeks ago

a letter in german is a "buchstabe"

so what did they call them before they had books ?


Books are older than the German language. It's only printing that's
fairly recent.

Andy

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:


Then I have seen paraffin engines: paraffin was in use for lamps from
IIRC the mid 9th century onwards. Also alcohol engines. Moderm model
aircraft engines are alcohol engines with glow plugs.

I would guess that te sort of kerosene/paraffin type fuels were in use
before petrol was actually.

James "Paraffin" Young developed the first commerical production of
petroleum in the 1850s, working largely from oil shale. It was he who
was largely responsible for defining the point on the fractional
distillation product should be taken off and paraffin was the point for
the standard product he marketed most enthusiastically. The company
also had a large business manufactuing new designs of lamps specially
made to burn the new product to best advantage.

Appin wrote:
The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:


Then I have seen paraffin engines: paraffin was in use for lamps from
IIRC the mid 9th century onwards. Also alcohol engines. Moderm model
aircraft engines are alcohol engines with glow plugs.

I would guess that te sort of kerosene/paraffin type fuels were in use
before petrol was actually.

James "Paraffin" Young developed the first commerical production of
petroleum in the 1850s, working largely from oil shale. It was he who
was largely responsible for defining the point on the fractional
distillation product should be taken off and paraffin was the point for
the standard product he marketed most enthusiastically. The company
also had a large business manufactuing new designs of lamps specially
made to burn the new product to best advantage.
ah. fascinating. i note I missed the 1 off 19th century..bit of a
blooper that. But thanks for confirming my gut feel that paraffin lamps
were in use from about that time onwards.

Appin wrote:
The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:


Then I have seen paraffin engines: paraffin was in use for lamps from
IIRC the mid 9th century onwards. Also alcohol engines. Moderm model
aircraft engines are alcohol engines with glow plugs.

I would guess that te sort of kerosene/paraffin type fuels were in
use before petrol was actually.

James "Paraffin" Young developed the first commerical production of
petroleum in the 1850s, working largely from oil shale. It was he
who was largely responsible for defining the point on the fractional
distillation product should be taken off and paraffin was the point
for the standard product he marketed most enthusiastically. The
company also had a large business manufactuing new designs of lamps
specially made to burn the new product to best advantage.

So, Rudolph Diesel sorted the engine in 1893, seems like Young sorted
paraffin in 1850, I wonder when commercial diesel fuel became available?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
saying something like:

James "Paraffin" Young developed the first commerical production of
petroleum in the 1850s, working largely from oil shale. It was he
who was largely responsible for defining the point on the fractional
distillation product should be taken off and paraffin was the point
for the standard product he marketed most enthusiastically. The
company also had a large business manufactuing new designs of lamps
specially made to burn the new product to best advantage.

It replaced expensive whale oil in lamps. Heating shale to extract
paraffin was very expensive, but the lamp oil produced was being sold at
a premium, albeit cheaper than whale oil.

So, Rudolph Diesel sorted the engine in 1893, seems like Young sorted
paraffin in 1850, I wonder when commercial diesel fuel became available?

When refining tech made it possible, I'd guess building on Young's work
and others like him. Bear in mind, for example, in the early days of the
motor car petrol was already in existence as a solvent and dry cleaning
fluid and was commonly found in chemists. I'm uncertain what later
became known as diesel oil would have been used for, if anything at all
- perhaps as a light lubricating or penetrating oil. Maybe even a
purgative. It may not have been cracked off from the feedstock until
there was a perceived need for it.
Istr reading somewhere that early oil refineries were aswamp with
products they had no use for - a lot of it would have been simply burned
off or left in with the sludge. Diesel oil isn't a very attractive
liquid at all, and it's hard to see it being in much demand for anything
until Rudolph came along.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Appin wrote:
The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:


Then I have seen paraffin engines: paraffin was in use for lamps from
IIRC the mid 9th century onwards. Also alcohol engines. Moderm model
aircraft engines are alcohol engines with glow plugs.
I would guess that te sort of kerosene/paraffin type fuels were in
use before petrol was actually.
James "Paraffin" Young developed the first commerical production of
petroleum in the 1850s, working largely from oil shale. It was he
who was largely responsible for defining the point on the fractional
distillation product should be taken off and paraffin was the point
for the standard product he marketed most enthusiastically. The
company also had a large business manufactuing new designs of lamps
specially made to burn the new product to best advantage.

So, Rudolph Diesel sorted the engine in 1893, seems like Young sorted
paraffin in 1850, I wonder when commercial diesel fuel became available?


the diesel engine was perfected 1897, I should imagine shortly after
that, as the US brought the licence to produce the engines in 1897 and
in 1899 a factory had been set up to make them in Germany

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

In article ,
wrote:
I doubt if it has yet been perfected, judging by the black smoke emitted
by some modern vehicles, mainly taxis.

If you leave London on the M4, pretty well all diesels smoke badly going
up the hill where it goes derestricted. And most put their foot down.

--
*When companies ship Styrofoam, what do they pack it in? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:23:08 +0100, wrote:

On 19 Sep,
Kevin wrote:

the diesel engine was perfected 1897,

I doubt if it has yet been perfected, judging by the black smoke emitted by
some modern vehicles, mainly taxis.

Don't forget buses. Many a time I've been stuck in traffic behind one on my
motorbike listening to the tuneful sound of my engine 'pinking' whilst
coughing my head off!

Don.

Cerberus . wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:23:08 +0100, wrote:

On 19 Sep,
Kevin wrote:

the diesel engine was perfected 1897,
I doubt if it has yet been perfected, judging by the black smoke emitted by
some modern vehicles, mainly taxis.

Don't forget buses. Many a time I've been stuck in traffic behind one on my
motorbike listening to the tuneful sound of my engine 'pinking' whilst
coughing my head off!

Don.

My recent experience has been that some of the heaviest diesel vehicles
(artics and other heavy lorries) have been far, far less smokey than
many cars and vans, etc. (Buses I find to be quite variable in the good
to medium range.)

It is usually some poxy little car that makes me switch over to air
recirculation.

Perhaps at the top of the ranges the panoply of control devices has
actually achieved the apparent cleanliness we want? Or maybe the excess
cost of the fuel wasted (when not burned as well as possible) is
starting to make maintenance worthwhile? Or is it the London
Low-Emission Zone regulations having an effect?

(And of petrol vehicles, it has to be lawn mowers and tiny, buzzy bikes
that are worst.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Appin wrote:
The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:


Then I have seen paraffin engines: paraffin was in use for lamps from
IIRC the mid 9th century onwards. Also alcohol engines. Moderm model
aircraft engines are alcohol engines with glow plugs.
I would guess that te sort of kerosene/paraffin type fuels were in
use before petrol was actually.
James "Paraffin" Young developed the first commerical production of
petroleum in the 1850s, working largely from oil shale. It was he
who was largely responsible for defining the point on the fractional
distillation product should be taken off and paraffin was the point
for the standard product he marketed most enthusiastically. The
company also had a large business manufactuing new designs of lamps
specially made to burn the new product to best advantage.

So, Rudolph Diesel sorted the engine in 1893, seems like Young sorted
paraffin in 1850, I wonder when commercial diesel fuel became available?


I am thinking back here..you know even WWII diesel was not the fuel of
choice..German tanks used it, but ours did not IIRC. they caught fire
most spectacularly.

ISTR that the R101 airship was supposed to have diesel engines, tha was
mid thirties...

Marine diesels were I think becoming common in the 20's..as were
stationary diesels..

So I would say there was a smattering of diesel about in the 20's and a
steady uptake to the 90's.

Pre WWII even a petrol station was a comparative rarity.

Rod wrote:
Cerberus . wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:23:08 +0100, wrote:

On 19 Sep, Kevin wrote:

the diesel engine was perfected 1897,
I doubt if it has yet been perfected, judging by the black smoke
emitted by
some modern vehicles, mainly taxis.

Don't forget buses. Many a time I've been stuck in traffic behind one
on my
motorbike listening to the tuneful sound of my engine 'pinking' whilst
coughing my head off!

Don.

My recent experience has been that some of the heaviest diesel vehicles
(artics and other heavy lorries) have been far, far less smokey than
many cars and vans, etc. (Buses I find to be quite variable in the good
to medium range.)

It is usually some poxy little car that makes me switch over to air
recirculation.

Perhaps at the top of the ranges the panoply of control devices has
actually achieved the apparent cleanliness we want? Or maybe the excess
cost of the fuel wasted (when not burned as well as possible) is
starting to make maintenance worthwhile? Or is it the London
Low-Emission Zone regulations having an effect?

(And of petrol vehicles, it has to be lawn mowers and tiny, buzzy bikes
that are worst.)


Turbos help a lot. The problem is the diesel likes a lean mix. And to
make it go faster you throw in fuel, not air. Turbos throw in extra air
as well.

In article ,
Rod wrote:
My recent experience has been that some of the heaviest diesel vehicles
(artics and other heavy lorries) have been far, far less smokey than
many cars and vans, etc. (Buses I find to be quite variable in the good
to medium range.)

It is usually some poxy little car that makes me switch over to air
recirculation.

Pretty well any diesel that has been idling for a while - or driven gently
- will smoke badly when pushed. Hence the way the MOT is done for diesels.

--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Rod wrote:
Cerberus . wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:23:08 +0100, wrote:

On 19 Sep, Kevin wrote:

the diesel engine was perfected 1897,
I doubt if it has yet been perfected, judging by the black smoke
emitted by
some modern vehicles, mainly taxis.

Don't forget buses. Many a time I've been stuck in traffic behind one
on my
motorbike listening to the tuneful sound of my engine 'pinking' whilst
coughing my head off!

Don.

My recent experience has been that some of the heaviest diesel
vehicles (artics and other heavy lorries) have been far, far less
smokey than many cars and vans, etc. (Buses I find to be quite
variable in the good to medium range.)

It is usually some poxy little car that makes me switch over to air
recirculation.

Perhaps at the top of the ranges the panoply of control devices has
actually achieved the apparent cleanliness we want? Or maybe the
excess cost of the fuel wasted (when not burned as well as possible)
is starting to make maintenance worthwhile? Or is it the London
Low-Emission Zone regulations having an effect?

(And of petrol vehicles, it has to be lawn mowers and tiny, buzzy
bikes that are worst.)


Turbos help a lot. The problem is the diesel likes a lean mix. And to
make it go faster you throw in fuel, not air. Turbos throw in extra air
as well.


Absolutely - I was completely convinced of the benefits of turbocharging
diesels long before I accepted they could make sense for petrol engines
as well.

(Would a turbo help a 2-stroke lawnmower as well? :-) )

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am thinking back here..you know even WWII diesel was not the fuel of
choice..German tanks used it, but ours did not IIRC. they caught fire
most spectacularly.

The reason 'we' didn't use diesel was the desire of the brass to only have
to supply one fuel to the battlefield, etc.
Germany had a problem with petrol supplies but not so much with diesel.

--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod wrote:
My recent experience has been that some of the heaviest diesel vehicles
(artics and other heavy lorries) have been far, far less smokey than
many cars and vans, etc. (Buses I find to be quite variable in the good
to medium range.)

It is usually some poxy little car that makes me switch over to air
recirculation.

Pretty well any diesel that has been idling for a while - or driven gently
- will smoke badly when pushed. Hence the way the MOT is done for diesels.


I fully accept that. Still it seems to me that there are many small
diesel vehicles that emit such clouds for long distances - sometimes as
long as I am following.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod wrote:
My recent experience has been that some of the heaviest diesel vehicles
(artics and other heavy lorries) have been far, far less smokey than
many cars and vans, etc. (Buses I find to be quite variable in the good
to medium range.)

It is usually some poxy little car that makes me switch over to air
recirculation.

Pretty well any diesel that has been idling for a while - or driven gently
- will smoke badly when pushed. Hence the way the MOT is done for diesels.

Is that true for direct injection though?

No build up of fuel in the manifold etc..

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Pretty well any diesel that has been idling for a while - or driven
gently - will smoke badly when pushed. Hence the way the MOT is done
for diesels.

Is that true for direct injection though?

No build up of fuel in the manifold etc..

Aren't pretty well all diesels direct injection? You compress air to a
high pressure and therefore temperature then squirt some fuel into the
combustion chamber which causes the bang?

Direct injection is fairly new with common petrol cars, but not diesels.
Perhaps you're thinking of common rail where an actively powered injector
times the injection under the control of an ECU, rather than the older
pump?

--
*Modulation in all things *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Pretty well any diesel that has been idling for a while - or driven
gently - will smoke badly when pushed. Hence the way the MOT is done
for diesels.

Is that true for direct injection though?

No build up of fuel in the manifold etc..

Aren't pretty well all diesels direct injection? You compress air to a
high pressure and therefore temperature then squirt some fuel into the
combustion chamber which causes the bang?


Nope. Lots squirt it into the inlet manifold I think.

Ah. always find someone who knows more..looks like I was half right.
Neither the inlet nor the cylinder..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_injection

Direct injection is fairly new with common petrol cars, but not diesels.
Perhaps you're thinking of common rail where an actively powered injector
times the injection under the control of an ECU, rather than the older
pump?


I was actually thinking of an ancient tractor..wheer the glow plug was
in the inlet manifold, and the only way to start it sometimes was to
open that up, and pour a cupful of diesel into it, and then if that
didnt catch fire, shove a rag in it and light it..I cant remember if
that had direct injection or not..


Model aircraft diesels use no injectors at all..but do require ether in
the mix to ignite it.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Pretty well any diesel that has been idling for a while - or driven
gently - will smoke badly when pushed. Hence the way the MOT is done
for diesels.

Is that true for direct injection though?

No build up of fuel in the manifold etc..

Aren't pretty well all diesels direct injection? You compress air to a
high pressure and therefore temperature then squirt some fuel into the
combustion chamber which causes the bang?


Nope. Lots squirt it into the inlet manifold I think.

Not much use that. For the fuel to get from there to the combustion
chamber the valve would have to be open. And with a valve open no
compression.

Ah. always find someone who knows more..looks like I was half right.
Neither the inlet nor the cylinder..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_injection

That's really just an extension of the combustion chamber for all
practical purposes. The idea being to make the engine less harsh - or more
like a petrol one - for car etc use. But the most efficient designs stayed
with direct injection.

Direct injection is fairly new with common petrol cars, but not
diesels. Perhaps you're thinking of common rail where an actively
powered injector times the injection under the control of an ECU,
rather than the older pump?


I was actually thinking of an ancient tractor..wheer the glow plug was
in the inlet manifold, and the only way to start it sometimes was to
open that up, and pour a cupful of diesel into it, and then if that
didnt catch fire, shove a rag in it and light it..I cant remember if
that had direct injection or not..

Sure it wasn't a paraffin burning type? They are more akin to a petrol
engine.


Model aircraft diesels use no injectors at all..but do require ether in
the mix to ignite it.

And are horrendous, efficiency wise. Diesel of course refers to a
compression ignition engine - which may or may not run on diesel.

--
*Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.