"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

for me and many people most mileage is on motorways. The Prius is OK
for city only drivers where the better option is possibly PT.

I have one. It is doing just under 60mpg. And I do mixed motorway and
city.
About 75/25%. When in city only, it does around 65mpg. I does not hang
about, it is brisk.

the Sunday Times found it slow compared to the smallest BMW 5 series
and having the same fuel consumption.

I wrote, "I does not hang about, it is brisk". And it is super quiet.

100mpg top end which I have never reached - the MGB did
only 85mph.

comparing to an ancient car is getting desperate

That is a racing car isn't it?

Want a hybrid car that tears up the road?

no.

Stick to tractors - you deserve each other.

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

If all cities had only the Prius and hybrid busses and taxis then the
cities
would be wonderful.

That's its good point, why not use the bus?

A hybrid bus. I do use busses when I need to.

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

you are becoming tedious,

You mean I am lacing you with pure logic.

you seen to invent things like people dont drive on motorways, I dont
call that "pure logic"

Most people do not and only once in blue moon.

road tests tell me the Prius is nothing special
for fuel consumption.

The new Prius is 60mpg mixed. You have been told that many times but it
does
not sink in. BTW, I hate BMWs and Mercs. I will not have a tattoo to
drive
one. knobheads cars! Nothing personal.

only "knobheads" stereotype people by
makes of car or take any
interest in people who do such things.

I don't want a bald head or a tattoo.

You go on about complex diesels and choose
instead one of the most complex modest cars on the road.

You have already been told.

yes, you said it, but dont answer the suggestions why its not

It is just that your mind can't figure it out.

I dont need abuse from people like you.

I don't give abuse. That was an observation.

"Doctor Drivel" gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

I wrote, "I does not hang about, it is brisk". And it is super quiet.

You do talk some complete ********.

The one I drove was lethargic at best, unless you thrashed it like a
ginger stepchild, at which point it was unpleasantly loud. I averaged
35mpg from it.

But I seem to recall posting all this at the time, a couple of years ago
- at which point, you sulked and suggested I eff off, since I was a
plantpot. Which seems to be your standard response to an opinion contrary
to your own.

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

I wrote, "I does not hang about, it is brisk". And it is super quiet.

You do talk some complete ********.

The one I drove was lethargic at best, unless you thrashed it like a
ginger stepchild, at which point it was unpleasantly loud. I averaged
35mpg from it.

You are telling lies. You always do.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bruce wrote:
The first Toyota Prius was available as a diesel-electric.

Not so.

News to me as well. Can we have a reference?

A Prius diesel ought to be seriously efficient. Unlike the petrol one.

Andy

Andy Champ gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

The first Toyota Prius was available as a diesel-electric.

Not so.

News to me as well. Can we have a reference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius#1...model_NHW10.29

A Prius diesel ought to be seriously efficient. Unlike the petrol one.

Shame that neither the Japanese or American markets - the big ones for
hybrids like the Pious - "do" diesels at all.

Looks like the first diesel-hybrids will be from PSA - the 308 & C4 HDi
hybrids are thought to be hitting the markets in about a year.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
65mpg in London - far superior. The city is crawling with them. And
they are improving the performance with coming models. The drive is
peerless. Worth buying for the drive alone. Silent at traffic lights and
when stopped. I hate vibrating engines and at tick-over a diesel is the
pits. The difference from a diesel and a Prius is night and day. Many
hybrids are coming onto the market. The Chevy Volt is coming this
year. Electric motors propel the car.

Some of us have more sense than to try to drive through London. It's
small enough, and well enough served by the Tube not to need a car.

Will the Volt really be better?

Andy

Doctor Drivel wrote:

You have already been told. The Prius is not complex at all. There is
less components in it - not even an in-line gearbox. It is just that
your mind can't figure it out.

Just 'cos it's sun and planet doesn't make it not a gearbox.

No mechanical clutch *is* a worthwhile feature, especially to owners of
dual-mass flywheels. But I'm not convinced that two electric motors and
a darnn great battery pack count as simpler than a clutch.

Andy

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bruce wrote:
The first Toyota Prius was available as a diesel-electric.

Not so.

News to me as well. Can we have a reference?

A Prius diesel ought to be seriously efficient. Unlike the petrol one.

The petrol Prius us seriously efficient. The new model returns 60mpg, US
mixed cycle about 70mpg around London. It uses a sort of Atkins cycle.

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Andy Champ gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

The first Toyota Prius was available as a diesel-electric.

Not so.

News to me as well. Can we have a reference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius#1...model_NHW10.29

A Prius diesel ought to be seriously efficient. Unlike the petrol one.

Shame that neither the Japanese or American markets - the big ones for
hybrids like the Pious - "do" diesels at all.

Sensible people. Diesel engines stink in all respects.

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...

Some of us have more sense than to try to drive through London. It's
small enough, and well enough served by the Tube not to need a car.

I drive and use the Tube.

Will the Volt really be better?

Promises to be. Powered only by electric motors and an internal combustion
genny. A small Stirling could be enough to generate the power with the
battery acting as a large buffer - but for the future.

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

You have already been told. The Prius is not complex at all. There is
less components in it - not even an in-line gearbox. It is just that your
mind can't figure it out.

Just 'cos it's sun and planet doesn't make it not a gearbox.

Read the explanation I posted.

No mechanical clutch *is* a worthwhile feature, especially to owners of
dual-mass flywheels. But I'm not convinced that two electric motors and a
darnn great battery pack count as simpler than a clutch.

Read the explanation I posted. The Prius has:

1) small massive power/weight electric motor,
2) an IC engine
3) a power splitter which is a simple, small planetary gear cluster.
4) Battery pack

An diesel IC engine has:

1) noisy, heavy and large engine
2) large power sapping in-line transmission
3) Clutch
4) Dual-mass flywheel
5) electric motor to spin the engine
6) battery pack
7) turbo

No contest, the Prius wins hands down. The Prius tops the JD Power survey
for the most reliable car. They are super reliable and super quite and emits
far, far less emissions. Fantastic!!!

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

Most people do not go on motorways much at all. And as you have ignored,
the new Prius does 60mpg mixed highway and urban (US test). More in 80-90%
urban, as most people do.

I wonder who all those people parked on the M25/M6 are?

The message
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

I have one. It is doing just under 60mpg. And I do mixed motorway and
city.
About 75/25%. When in city only, it does around 65mpg. I does not hang
about, it is brisk. 100mpg top end which I have never reached - the MGB did
only 85mph. The new Prius is even better. It is better looking, longer,
wider, faster acceleration an greater economy...and still the brilliant
unrivalled drive. We shall see what the Chevy Volt does.

I think the time has come to repeat part of what I first posted on 1st
December last which is a quote from a FOI request.

"The Government Car and Despatch Agency (GCDA), an executive Agency of
the Department for Transport, operates a fleet 104 Toyota Prius. The
Agency does monitor the fuel consumption of its vehicles. Its latest
report shows that the average fuel consumption of the Toyota Prius fleet
was 42.69 mpg. The worst example is an average of 32.45 mpg and the best
example is an average of 51.49 mpg."

Not exactly brilliant performance is it.

The MGB wasn't brilliant either when it was introduced in 1962 and was
even more sluggish by the time it finally died in 1980 but even the
slowest was good for a top speed of 98mph. Dribbles 85 mph max is way
out but paradoxically probably a good deal more accurate than most of
the nonsense he spouts.

I wonder if his MGB had a DB numberplate. :-)

--
Roger Chapman

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

Most people do not go on motorways much at all. And as you have ignored,
the new Prius does 60mpg mixed highway and urban (US test). More in
80-90% urban, as most people do.

I wonder who all those people parked on the M25/M6 are?

Yep the whole 60 odd million of us. And the Prius does well in bumper to
bumper traffic.

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

I have one. It is doing just under 60mpg. And I do mixed motorway and
city.
About 75/25%. When in city only, it does around 65mpg. I does not hang
about, it is brisk. 100mpg top end which I have never reached - the MGB
did
only 85mph. The new Prius is even better. It is better looking, longer,
wider, faster acceleration an greater economy...and still the brilliant
unrivalled drive. We shall see what the Chevy Volt does.

I think the time has come to repeat part of what I first posted on 1st
December last which is a quote from a FOI request.

"The Government Car and Despatch Agency (GCDA), an executive Agency of
the Department for Transport, operates a fleet 104 Toyota Prius. The
Agency does monitor the fuel consumption of its vehicles. Its latest
report shows that the average fuel consumption of the Toyota Prius fleet
was 42.69 mpg. The worst example is an average of 32.45 mpg and the best
example is an average of 51.49 mpg."

It doesn't tally with others - the US official test was at 60mpg. The Prius
doesn't kill the plant. And is swish...................

snip drivel by Roger

Roger drive a tractor - you deserve each other.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:03:38 UTC, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

Most people do not go on motorways much at all. And as you have ignored,
the new Prius does 60mpg mixed highway and urban (US test). More in 80-90%
urban, as most people do.

I wonder who all those people parked on the M25/M6 are?

Prius drivers saving up for new batteries?

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Andy Champ" wrote:

Will the Volt really be better?

Promises to be.


And you unthinkingly believe that?

There's one born every minute. ;-)

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Bruce" wrote :

The first Toyota Prius was available as a diesel-electric. The current
and forthcoming new models are petrol only, and completely pointless.

It was never diesel.


Oh, but it was. You could choose diesel or petrol models.

That was the Mk1. The Mk2 is petrol only, as will be the Mk3. The Mk3
can also be charged from AC mains, which should make it a lot more
useful - and cheaper to run in town.

The Chevy Volt is playing catch-up.

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Andy Champ" wrote:

Will the Volt really be better?

Promises to be.

And you unthinkingly believe that?

There's one born every minute. ;-)

What do you know that we dn't know?

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Bruce" wrote :

The first Toyota Prius was available as a diesel-electric. The current
and forthcoming new models are petrol only, and completely pointless.

It was never diesel.

Oh, but it was. You could choose diesel or petrol models.

That was the Mk1. The Mk2 is petrol only, as will be the Mk3. The Mk3
can also be charged from AC mains, which should make it a lot more
useful - and cheaper to run in town.

The Mk 3 is not chargeable from the mains from what I understand. It was
introduced last week. It has roof solar panel.

The Chevy Volt is playing catch-up.

It is driven by electric motors only.

In article ,
clumsy ******* wrote:
"To find out we set a challenge: to drive a Prius to Geneva using
motorways and town driving. The direct route is 460 miles but we drove
almost 100 miles further to give the Prius the advantage of running in
urban conditions where its petrol-electric drivetrain comes into its
own"..........
As I did so, I noted with slight satisfaction that Jason (Prius) was
having difficulty keeping up, so I cut my speed. Had I been really
serious about saving fuel I could have also switched off the
air-conditioning and the stereo but I was more concerned about making
this a real-world test. ................
[snip]

When Autocar tested the original Prius, their overall consumption
including performance testing was 24 mpg. More telling, their suburban
route test that all their cars do came out at under 40 mpg - and worse
than a BMW 320d which is a much faster car.

In the US Toyota was forced to change the overall consumption figure they
claimed from approx 60 mpg to 45 after complaints.

I had one of the early ones on loan for a week. It was good on fuel in
heavy town traffic - but absolutely hopeless on the open road and
unpleasant to drive. If I were in the market for a town car *only* I'd
want something very much smaller than it.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
you dont get something for nothing, if you want two lots of power
source there's a price to pay in fuel consumption and complexity,
which apparently only applies to diesels.....

That is right. The Prius is simple - it has fewer components. It
doesn't even have an in-line gearbox.

So it replaces the gearbox with electric motors, a battery pack and clever
electronics. Nice and simple, that.

--
*It's o.k. to laugh during sexŒ.Œ.just don't point!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
That was mainly on a motorway. How much over a year in normal driving?
er, er, er.... The new Prius averages 60mpg in the US mixed test.

Toyota claim that. They were forced to change their claims on the last
model.

--
*Why is it that doctors call what they do "practice"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
for me and many people most mileage is on motorways. The Prius is OK
for city only drivers where the better option is possibly PT.

I have one.

More lies.

--
*Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Adrian wrote:
Shame that neither the Japanese or American markets - the big ones for
hybrids like the Pious - "do" diesels at all.

Looks like the first diesel-hybrids will be from PSA - the 308 & C4 HDi
hybrids are thought to be hitting the markets in about a year.

The reason there aren't diesel hybrids is they don't show the same sort of
'savings' in fuel on paper that the Prius does.

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"The Government Car and Despatch Agency (GCDA), an executive Agency of
the Department for Transport, operates a fleet 104 Toyota Prius. The
Agency does monitor the fuel consumption of its vehicles. Its latest
report shows that the average fuel consumption of the Toyota Prius
fleet was 42.69 mpg. The worst example is an average of 32.45 mpg and
the best example is an average of 51.49 mpg."

It doesn't tally with others - the US official test was at 60mpg.

You're telling lies again. The MK II - to which the above refers - had to
have its claimed consumption in the US changed to 45mpg after many
complaints. And given it was designed specifically to give good results in
these particular tests rather than in the real world was telling.

--
*The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Bruce wrote:
The first Toyota Prius was available as a diesel-electric. The
current and forthcoming new models are petrol only, and completely
pointless.

It was never diesel.


Oh, but it was. You could choose diesel or petrol models.

Please give a reference. If it had been available as a diesel that would
have been the choice pretty well everywhere apart from the US.
Except that the open road performance would have been even more pathetic
for a car of that price.

--
*How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:10:36 +0000, Bruce wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Because they have such a long service life, many London black cabs have
pretty crude engines of an old design. Although new ones should be better.

http://www.lti.co.uk/tx4/engine/


With direct injection, the VM diesels are notoriously noisy. A relative
runs two "black cabs" and much prefers the previous Nissan engine. He
lives in an upmarket residential area and when working early mornings,
his neighbours aren't pleased to hear his VM Motori R 425 DOHC start up.
;-)

There are diesel engines without 'direct' injection? Please tell.

"Dave Plowman (News)" gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

That is right. The Prius is simple - it has fewer components. It
doesn't even have an in-line gearbox.

So it replaces the gearbox with electric motors, a battery pack and
clever electronics. Nice and simple, that.

Don't forget the mysterious box that functions awfully like a gearbox and
sits between motor(s) and driveshafts.

clumsy ******* wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

you are becoming tedious,
You mean I am lacing you with pure logic.

you seen to invent things like people dont drive on motorways, I dont
call that "pure logic"


drivel only uses the Prius to drive to the clinic.

Its highly suitable for the mentally disabled.

Everybody knows that no one in their right minds would drive a Prius.
Ergo, ...

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:10:36 +0000, Bruce wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Because they have such a long service life, many London black cabs have
pretty crude engines of an old design. Although new ones should be better.

http://www.lti.co.uk/tx4/engine/

With direct injection, the VM diesels are notoriously noisy. A relative
runs two "black cabs" and much prefers the previous Nissan engine. He
lives in an upmarket residential area and when working early mornings,
his neighbours aren't pleased to hear his VM Motori R 425 DOHC start up.
;-)

There are diesel engines without 'direct' injection? Please tell.

Yes.

There is a separate chamber outside of the piston/cylinder, usually with
the glo plugs as well.

The 'bang' happens there and is transfereed more slowly to the main
piston cylinder area.

There are also injection systems that fire a series of small pulses of
fuel rather than a big one..these reduce low throttle 'clatter'


This is a good article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_injection

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

in other words its "alright" for what its designed for, mostly city
centre driving. Driven in a the normal mix of motorway and town you
can get almost the same consumption from a Cooper S!

Read what I wrote!!! Stop telling yourself lies and believing them. I
wrote
"but average driving is what matters and it is unbeatable in mpg". In
pure
city driving it is unbeatable. Then to drive it, is the best - seamless
ansd swish.

Read what I wrote!!! Stop telling yourself lies and believing them.
Average driving for me is a mix of motorway and urban, it is for most
people.

Most people do not go on motorways much at all.

Those that I know do.

And as you have ignored, the new Prius does 60mpg mixed highway and urban
(US test). More in 80-90% urban, as most people do.

The cars also does not pollute like a crap diesel. And the ride is
unrivalled. It is wroth buying for the ride alone. But you like tractors
that may cost fortune to fix when the complex bits fail. £800 to change a
clutch!! The Prius doesn't have one and not even and in-line gearbox
either. The new Chevy Volt will no mechanical transmission whatsoever.

Have you any idea how much it costs to replace the batteries in a Prius,
which *will* need replacing every 6 or 7 years? It's a lot more than a
failed DMF clutch and flywheel. Can you tell us how expensive it is to
recycle those enormous used batteries full of nasty substances - I'll give
you a clue, it aint a case of taking them down to the local scrappy.

Plus, Priuses are boring to drive, have particularly soggy handling, look
horrible and just aren't a great car at all.

Some are unreliable too, and boy, when they break, they are *expensive*

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...rius_used.html

--

Mike P

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

Its not just motorways, its the major road system of the country for
which the Prius isnt anything to get excited about.

It is not race car. We have tracks for them. It can keep up with the
traffic on any road.

nobody is talking about racing cars

The Prius can keep up, and beat, with all cars on brisk A roads and
motorways. You can do 100mph anyway.


Hahaha. I really, really doubt that. Hell, my little 1992 Mazda would leave
one for dead,

--

Mike P

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

That was mainly on a motorway. How much over a year in normal driving?

for me and many people most mileage is on motorways. The Prius is OK
for city only drivers where the better option is possibly PT.

I have one. It is doing just under 60mpg. And I do mixed motorway and
city. About 75/25%. When in city only, it does around 65mpg. I does not
hang about, it is brisk.100mpg top end which I have never reached

So you do hang about then?

- the MGB did only 85mph. The new Prius is even better.

I should hope a new Prius is better than a 30 year old shed based on a
Morris Minor.

It is better looking,

Than what? A squashed fish?

longer, wider, faster acceleration an greater economy...and still the
brilliant unrivalled drive.

You really need to drive some other cars if you think a Pious is
"unrivalled"

--

Mike P

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

I wrote, "I does not hang about, it is brisk". And it is super quiet.

You do talk some complete ********.

The one I drove was lethargic at best, unless you thrashed it like a
ginger stepchild, at which point it was unpleasantly loud. I averaged
35mpg from it.

I've only ever driven one Prius, it was a couple of weeks before xmas. I am
not sure of the economy as I only had it 4 hours, but it was pretty
uninspiring to drive - loud and thrashy if you wanted to make decent
progress, soggy handling and not a brilliant ride. This was an 08 plate car
with 12k on the clock.



--

Mike P

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Bruce" wrote in message
news
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

A German taxi.

Sturdy, robust, safe, reliable, extremely comfortable. No wonder taxi
drivers (and their passengers) love them!

May as well get London Black cab then.

Try a Lexus. super reliability, economy and class.

As flash as a rat with a gold tooth. For people with no taste.

Lexus are class - the sport versions look the part.

Are you a failed pub landlord? In the main, they're the only people who
think that.

BMWs and Mercs are for the classless Rolex watch tattoo brigade. The Mercs
are also for old bald men too. Just look at the knobheads you see looking
out of the windows of the Merc E class.

Yeap, they're probably laughing at the person who spent £50k on a new Lexus
3 years ago who now finds it's only worth £3000 ..

That does put people off. They are not reliable anymore, so I don't know
why people buy them. People bought Beetles because they were reliable. So
why buy an unreliable car that looks appalling and is over priced and with
a poor knobheads image.

The best for ride, economy, reliability and image is a Prius.

You aren't very bright are you? Do you work for Toyota? I'm knew here..

--

Mike P

"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Servicing a diesel costs less, at least until you need to replace a
turbo, diesel cars being more likely to have a turbo than petrol cars.

My turbo has tuned 180,000 miles so as long as it's serviced correctly
that's not an issue.

I recently changed the (original) turbo in my car after c.170k miles. Not
because it was worn, but because of "foreign object damage". Some tit
looks around innocently dropped a washer into it. The replacement came
off a scrapper, with c.120k miles on, and is good for many tens of
thousands of miles yet.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:29:39 -0000 Mike P wrote :
I've only ever driven one Prius, it was a couple of weeks before xmas.
I am not sure of the economy as I only had it 4 hours, but it was
pretty uninspiring to drive - loud and thrashy if you wanted to make
decent progress, soggy handling and not a brilliant ride. This was an
08 plate car with 12k on the clock.

I hired one for a day here in Melbourne and was more than happy with it,
but I was driving it in exactly the sort of conditions it is optimised
for, viz start-stop traffic. IKEA is 7km (5mi) from here and this
journey generally takes 25 mins, with red light waits being for an
extended period as compared with the UK. So for most of the time it was
running on electric only, and, of course, totally shutting down at red
lights. But as an open road or motorway car it makes little sense as
compared with an efficient diesel.

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com