I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e. instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much
more expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

How may would you like? I can give you at least three.

But for a sensible answer I would need to know estimated annual mileage,
how long you intend to keep the car, and your driving style. The last
at least I cannot possibly know.

Andy

Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much
more expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

...and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:17:42 -0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

With 170bhp and 400Nm torque, mine performs just fine.
Also, motorway cruising at 70-ish, it delivers around 50mpg.

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:03:14 +0000, Appelation Controlee wrote:
Also, motorway cruising at 70-ish, it delivers around 50mpg.

How's that compare to an average petrol car in terms of fuel cost only?
I've lost the plot as to what's going on with UK fuel prices these days

Jules wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:03:14 +0000, Appelation Controlee wrote:
Also, motorway cruising at 70-ish, it delivers around 50mpg.

How's that compare to an average petrol car in terms of fuel cost only?
I've lost the plot as to what's going on with UK fuel prices these days


Think of it as using about 30% less fuel, but paying 15% more per litre
than petrol. Overall, the fuel advantage is about 15%.

Servicing a diesel costs less, at least until you need to replace a
turbo, diesel cars being more likely to have a turbo than petrol cars.

A diesel car costs less to tax than a similar capacity petrol model
because of the lower CO2 emissions. However, you can usually get away
with a smaller petrol engine for the same performance.

A diesel car costs a little more to buy but depreciates less.

My last two cars have been diesels but my next will be a petrol. The
higher cost of a litre of diesel means that the cost advantage over
petrol is a lot less than it used to be, and the driveability is still
nowhere near as good.

Appelation Controlee wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:17:42 -0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve
Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..
..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

With 170bhp and 400Nm torque, mine performs just fine.
Also, motorway cruising at 70-ish, it delivers around 50mpg.

try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

try the Jaguar diesel XF..

40mpg, and smooth as a button..


If you think can get one of those for the price of a Ford Focus 1.4, you
are even more stupid than I thought.

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:17:42 -0000, a certain chimpanzee, "Doctor
Drivel" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

Yes, that is something in diesel's favour.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

On 26 Jan, 16:17, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in . net...

Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? *I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

Clearly you're still stuck in the 20th century

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...
On 26 Jan, 16:17, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in
. net...

Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much
more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

Do the sums.

And dont forget maintenance..

..and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

Clearly you're still stuck in the 20th century


No!!! Diesels are still just plain expensive crap. And the sound pollution
from them too. A street full them makes a hell of a racket. Start one up
in the morning and the neighbours wake up. There should be tighter laws on
sound pollution of vehicles.

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

and the agricultural sounds, vibrations and performance of a diesel.

the sound isn't great, the vibrations minimal and the performance more
usable as its at lower revs
(I'm comparing my BMW 3 series petrol to the diesel version I hire
abroad)

Stop scraping the barrel. They stink in all aspects. And are expensive to
run.

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

the sound isn't great, the vibrations minimal and the performance more
usable as its at lower revs
(I'm comparing my BMW 3 series petrol to the diesel version I hire
abroad)

Stop scraping the barrel. They stink in all aspects. And are expensive to
run.

you have possibly made a point about complexity and possible potential
repair bills if you buy an older car, the rest is fantasy in my
experience.

You must in fantasy land to tell yourself such lies and believe them.

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

you have possibly made a point about complexity and possible potential
repair bills if you buy an older car, the rest is fantasy in my
experience.

You must in fantasy land to tell yourself such lies and believe them.

you are becoming tedious,

You mean I am lacing you with pure logic.

road tests tell me the Prius is nothing special
for fuel consumption.

The new Prius is 60mpg mixed. You have been told that many times but it does
not sink in. BTW, I hate BMWs and Mercs. I will not have a tattoo to drive
one. knobheads cars! Nothing personal.

You go on about complex diesels and choose
instead one of the most complex modest cars on the road.

You have already been told. The Prius is not complex at all. There is less
components in it - not even an in-line gearbox. It is just that your mind
can't figure it out.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:57:59 -0000, a certain chimpanzee, "Mr Sandman"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e. instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

IME diesels give about 40% better MPG than petrol, and with diesel
currently about 12p/litre more than petrol, it's still less on fuel
costs. However, there are other costs to consider such as the initial
purchase price and any additional servicing. The higher your annual
mileage the less these are a factor.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

"Hugo Nebula" abuse@localhost wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:57:59 -0000, a certain chimpanzee, "Mr Sandman"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

IME diesels give about 40% better MPG than petrol,

In wonderworld they might.

and with diesel
currently about 12p/litre more than petrol, it's still less on fuel
costs. However, there are other costs to consider such as the initial
purchase price and any additional servicing. The higher your annual
mileage the less these are a factor.

Getting better.

Hugo Nebula wrote:

IME diesels give about 40% better MPG than petrol, and with diesel
currently about 12p/litre more than petrol, it's still less on fuel
costs. However, there are other costs to consider such as the initial
purchase price and any additional servicing. The higher your annual
mileage the less these are a factor.

In mine, I can fill the cabin with a load of junk or bodies (living I
should add) and still cruise motorways building speed and overtaking
without shifting down gears and taking huge gulps of fuel from the tank.
Doing that in the previous petrol car with near the same engine size
(2 litre) and laden similary, the acceleration ability in gear is not as
good.

However, if I were a driver in London (or any of the big cities) running
around unladen and wanted a smaller lighter car, the entertainment
choice would be petrol - and I'd trash the gearbox, run the traffic
lights, flatten someone elses dog, advance 0-60 years in 10 seconds and
be in the grave soon after the 11'th.

--
Adrian C

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...

However, if I were a driver in London (or any of the big cities) running
around unladen and wanted a smaller lighter car, the entertainment choice
would be petrol - and I'd trash the gearbox,

Get a Prius as they do not have an in-line gearbox. Brill to drive.

In article ,
Mr Sandman wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much
more expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead?
I.e. instead of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

A little research will give the government fuel consumption figures for
each of these models - and although only a guide, is better than an
individual saying what their car's mpg is, as consumption is influenced by
driving conditions and style.
So some simple math will give the comparative fuel costs. You also need
to take into account purchase price and likely resale value - ie
depreciation. Diesels are generally better than petrol in this respect.

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jan 25, 6:57*pm, "Mr Sandman" wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? *I.e. instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

http://preview.tinyurl.com/aowyh4

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Jan 25, 6:57 pm, "Mr Sandman" wrote:
I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e. instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

Any opinions?

Steve

http://preview.tinyurl.com/aowyh4

Diesel cars 'take decades to become cost effective'
Diesel cars can take decades to provide their owners with financial
benefits, according to new research.

"According to research by car experts Parker's a BMW 318 diesel could take
28 years to recoup the extra cost."

"Buying a diesel Mini could take the driver up to seven years to break even.
A Ford Mondeo diesel could take six years."

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"According to research by car experts Parker's a BMW 318 diesel could
take 28 years to recoup the extra cost."

Did the same article say how long it would take to recover the extra cost
of a Prius? No? Wonder why...

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"According to research by car experts Parker's a BMW 318 diesel could
take 28 years to recoup the extra cost."

Did

Pleas eff off you are a plantpot.

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

"According to research by car experts Parker's a BMW 318 diesel could
take 28 years to recoup the extra cost."

Did the same article say how long it would take to recover the extra cost
of a Prius? No? Wonder why...

you dont get something for nothing, if you want two lots of power
source there's a price to pay in fuel consumption and complexity,
which apparently only applies to diesels.....

That is right. The Prius is simple - it has fewer components. It doesn't
even have an in-line gearbox. The Chevy Volt (electric drive only) promises
to be simpler too.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
you dont get something for nothing, if you want two lots of power
source there's a price to pay in fuel consumption and complexity,
which apparently only applies to diesels.....

That is right. The Prius is simple - it has fewer components. It
doesn't even have an in-line gearbox.

So it replaces the gearbox with electric motors, a battery pack and clever
electronics. Nice and simple, that.

--
*It's o.k. to laugh during sexŒ.Œ.just don't point!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

The Prius is simple - it has fewer components. It doesn't
even have an in-line gearbox.

it has a gearbox, it has regenerative braking, it has two engines, how
is this so simple?

No in-line gearbox. One engine and one motor. A normal engine has a motor
attached to it. The new BMWs use it to stop and star the engine at the
lights - like Pirus. For your understanding:

Split a powertrain into three modules:

1 petrol motor,
2 gearbox (CVT or otherwise),
3 diff/wheels It is in sequence,

1, 2, 3. Simple.

The petrol motor need module 2 because of its poor torque delivery
characteristics.

An electric motor has modules 1 and 3, eliminating 2, as it can deliver 100%
torque to module 3 on start up. Super simple. THE BEST is an electric
motor.

A Prius has modules 1 and 3, like an electric motor. In module 1 it has an
electric and petrol motor. In module 1 it has a mechanism to automatically
combine the power/torque of an electric and petrol motor to give the torque
delivery characteristics of an electric motor (called a power splitter).

Some experimental petrol engines can have modules 1 and 3 only, eliminating
2. This is by automatically varying the valve timing by using solenoid
controlled valves. This will deliver the torque to module 3 similar to an
electric motor. As with a Prius an auto mechanism is there to present to
module 3 torque characteristics like an electric motor.

So, no in-line gearbox, gear cogs, or CVT or otherwise in a Prius.

The point behind a Pirus is to:

- Have no to very low emissions, especially in urban conditions
- reduce fuel consumption, and hence emissions

Ferdinand Porsche raced (and won) a sort of hybrid in the early 1900s. They
were petrol motors - generators - electric motor - diff/wheels. In
effect an electric CVT "gearbox", all in-line, where the generator and
electric motor replaced a mechanical gearbox/CVT. The generator/electric
motor does the same job as a mechanical gearbox/CVT. A Prius does not use
this setup at all, it has the two motors in parrallel.

The Prius doesn't have an "in-line" transmission (gearbox/CVT). The "clever
part" is that is combines the outputs of the electric and petrol motors to
give the characteristics of one electric motor, presenting the
characteristics of an electric motor to the diff/wheels. Module 3 thinks
that its input is an electric motor.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:57:59 -0000, "Mr Sandman"
wrote:

I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e. instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

ICE/Steam hybrid:

http://www.engadget.com/2005/12/15/bmw-working-on-steam-gas-hybrid-engine/

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:57:59 -0000, "Mr Sandman"
wrote:

I always went for diesel in the past, but now, with it being so much more
expensive than petrol, am i better going with petrol instead? I.e.
instead
of a ford focus 1.8 diesel, buy a 1.4 petrol?

ICE/Steam hybrid:

http://www.engadget.com/2005/12/15/bmw-working-on-steam-gas-hybrid-engine/

BMW and Merc were working a hydrogen then after spending a fortune dropped
it as electric hybrids took over. This steam assist only gives 15% more
mpg. Big licks eh!!!! So a 25 mpg car will return 28.75mpg. Payback?
Never!! They could get more than that reduction by a lighter body and front
wheel drive eliminating heavy rear axles.

It is best they start to look at electric hybrids as all electric will be
the norm soon. Or maybe the air powered car, which Tata are backing. Tata
own Jaguar/Land Rover and Chorus Steel. A big player indeed.
http://tinyurl.com/4ooo6v

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

They could get more than that reduction by a lighter body and front
wheel drive eliminating heavy rear axles.

funny

Noty funny, just plain wrong.

"clumsy *******" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

BMW and Merc were working a hydrogen then after spending a fortune dropped
it as electric hybrids took over.

its still on the BMW website

Goes to show what companies they are.