It's like all these things. If you find something like that, who knows what
else is lurking under there? Rip it all out. Fix it. I guarantee you'll
sleep better. And you know that you and your family will be safe.

rrh wrote:
It's like all these things. If you find something like that, who
knows what else is lurking under there? Rip it all out. Fix it. I
guarantee you'll sleep better. And you know that you and your family
will be safe.

This is true, though it sounds alarmist. We found a Flymo connector
plastered into one wall; it joined two lengths of 2.5mm to extend a socket!
http://members.lycos.co.uk/Skanksville/id98.htm

Si

Having just had the bathroom floor up (qv my thread on shower trays!) I find
that the muppet who previously owned the house (10 years ago) had wired the
shaver socket using a length of ordinary appliance flex rather than proper
fixed wiring cable.

Given the amount of work it would take to rectify it (tracing the source and
re-exposing the flex from under a fully-tiled wall!), and given the low
current drawn by the shaver socket, will I be able to sleep nights if I just
nail the floorboards back down again...?

David

who knows what else is lurking under there? Rip it all out. Fix it.

Where do you stop, though? That specific instance sounds safe enough. What does
the rest of the installation look like? Modern consumer unit, bonding round the
sinks, doesn't keep tripping the ELCB?

"OldScrawn" wrote in message
...
who knows what else is lurking under there? Rip it all out. Fix it.

Where do you stop, though? That specific instance sounds safe enough. What
does
the rest of the installation look like? Modern consumer unit, bonding
round the
sinks, doesn't keep tripping the ELCB?

Well, that's the thing... in the years I've lived here I've done a fair bit
of work on all aspects of the house, and TBH it's all in pretty good order
really; I've never come across any electric bodges along these lines before.
I feel it's a one-off, so I'm not inclined to launch into a full rewire
based on this find... really I just want to know what the potential dangers
are with this specific set up.

David

Lobster wrote:
Having just had the bathroom floor up (qv my thread on shower trays!) I find
that the muppet who previously owned the house (10 years ago) had wired the
shaver socket using a length of ordinary appliance flex rather than proper
fixed wiring cable.

Given the amount of work it would take to rectify it (tracing the source and
re-exposing the flex from under a fully-tiled wall!), and given the low
current drawn by the shaver socket, will I be able to sleep nights if I just
nail the floorboards back down again...?

David



If you don't use the shaver socket, or can live without out it, why not
just simply disconnect it?

John

In article , Lobster
writes
"OldScrawn" wrote in message
...
who knows what else is lurking under there? Rip it all out. Fix it.

Where do you stop, though? That specific instance sounds safe enough. What
does
the rest of the installation look like? Modern consumer unit, bonding
round the
sinks, doesn't keep tripping the ELCB?

Well, that's the thing... in the years I've lived here I've done a fair bit
of work on all aspects of the house, and TBH it's all in pretty good order
really; I've never come across any electric bodges along these lines before.
I feel it's a one-off, so I'm not inclined to launch into a full rewire
based on this find... really I just want to know what the potential dangers
are with this specific set up.

Provided the flex is not damaged anywhere, there aren't any dangers.
It's not the right way to do it, but it isn't dangerous.
--
Tim Mitchell

Lobster wrote:
"OldScrawn" wrote in message
...
who knows what else is lurking under there? Rip it all out. Fix it.

Where do you stop, though? That specific instance sounds safe enough. What
does
the rest of the installation look like? Modern consumer unit, bonding
round the
sinks, doesn't keep tripping the ELCB?

Well, that's the thing... in the years I've lived here I've done a fair bit
of work on all aspects of the house, and TBH it's all in pretty good order
really; I've never come across any electric bodges along these lines before.
I feel it's a one-off, so I'm not inclined to launch into a full rewire
based on this find... really I just want to know what the potential dangers
are with this specific set up.

I don't think there are any dangers inherent in using flexible wire
for this as long as the current rating is sufficient which it almost
certainly is. The only possible issue I can think of is the security
of the connections at the ends, as long as these are secure then I see
no problem.

--
Chris Green

Lobster wrote:

Having just had the bathroom floor up (qv my thread on shower trays!) I find
that the muppet who previously owned the house (10 years ago) had wired the
shaver socket using a length of ordinary appliance flex rather than proper
fixed wiring cable.

Given the amount of work it would take to rectify it (tracing the source and
re-exposing the flex from under a fully-tiled wall!), and given the low
current drawn by the shaver socket, will I be able to sleep nights if I just
nail the floorboards back down again...?


Yes, basically.

When running well, leave well alone..

BUT do a bit of mental cost benefit exercise.

What could, at worst, happen?

If u are properly CU'ed and RCD'ed basically it shorts, trips, and thats
the end of your shaver socket and you WILL have to lift the floorboards
up again and do it all properly.

If your whole wiring is like the above tho, and not properly Cu'ed and
RCD'ed, then the downside is a potential shock or worse, house fire.


Newly acquired houses are always potential candidates for complete
re-wires. Its a lot easier to do it when its empty and cleaned out and
about to be redecorated anwyay..

OTOH if somethng works, fiddling with it usually makes it worse. Leave
it or do a thorough job. The wost of all possible things is to fiddle
with it a bit and then poke most of it back.


David

In article ,
wrote:
I don't think there are any dangers inherent in using flexible wire
for this as long as the current rating is sufficient which it almost
certainly is. The only possible issue I can think of is the security
of the connections at the ends, as long as these are secure then I see
no problem.

Yup. The cable itself will be fine, but terminating it into what is
designed for rigid conductors may cause problems.

--
*Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Given the amount of work it would take to rectify it (tracing the source
and
re-exposing the flex from under a fully-tiled wall!), and given the low
current drawn by the shaver socket, will I be able to sleep nights if I
just
nail the floorboards back down again...?

Personally, I wouldn't remove the cable. However, I'd be worried about its
short circuit performance, especially if it is on a 32A ring. I would trace
the other end and ensure that it came off a 3A FCU to protect the cable.

Christian.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yup. The cable itself will be fine, but terminating it into what is
designed for rigid conductors may cause problems.


Twisting and tinning makes for a pretty good compromise here.

--
Grunff

In article ,
Grunff writes:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yup. The cable itself will be fine, but terminating it into what is
designed for rigid conductors may cause problems.

Twisting and tinning makes for a pretty good compromise here.

Actually, that's a rather bad thing to do as solder creeps
under presure, so the contact pressure drops and you get a
bad connection. The right thing to do is to use a bootlace
ferrule (which should be crimped on, but you can solder that
on instead if it's a tight fit on the conductors).

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Actually, that's a rather bad thing to do as solder creeps
under presure, so the contact pressure drops and you get a
bad connection.


I've heard this lots, but I have to say it hasn't been my experience.
Solder does creep, as does copper, but soldered twisted ends don't seem
to significantly. I suspect it's the combination of soldering and
twisting that results in a fairly incompressible mass.

I have bits of equipment with tinned flex going into screw terminals of
varying ages, some about 40 years old, and these connections still feel
tight.

--
Grunff

In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Yup. The cable itself will be fine, but terminating it into what is
designed for rigid conductors may cause problems.


Twisting and tinning makes for a pretty good compromise here.

It can be done, but anyone who's bodged a thing like this is rather
unlikely to have done anything properly.

--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message ,
Grunff wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yup. The cable itself will be fine, but terminating it into what is
designed for rigid conductors may cause problems.


Twisting and tinning makes for a pretty good compromise here.


Not over time it doesn't. Tinned stranded wire under pressure from a
screw deforms pretty quickly - months rather than years IME - due to the
fact that solder is pretty soft stuff. I've met plenty of loose
connections made like this.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... "Bother", said Pooh, as he deleted his root directory.

In message ,
wrote:

I don't think there are any dangers inherent in using flexible wire
for this as long as the current rating is sufficient which it almost
certainly is. The only possible issue I can think of is the security
of the connections at the ends, as long as these are secure then I see
no problem.


It's not the current drawn by the shaver socket though - for this a bit
of bell wire would be more than sufficient - it's the potential current
supplied by the circuit. If the shaver is spurred from the ring main
without a protective fuse, then the flex really ought to be 2.5mm2 just
as a spur in T&E should be.

There are probably some nice equations somewhere where you could argue
that if the length were short enough 1.5mm2 might be sufficient, but
someone who has wired like this is unlikely to have done that.

On the other hand, if there is a SFU with 3A (or lower) fuse in it, then
0.75mm2 will probably be more than sufficient.

I take the point about the terminal security though, but this depends on
the design of the terminals. Many are quite able to take (thickish)
stranded wire safely.

Confession time: I wire downlighters using flex. It is firm enough in
the junction boxes I use for distribution, it fits better into the
(often flimsy) lamp terminals, and it is easier to lay safely away from
the bulb heat - a solid cable needs some persuading and will often
deform in just the wrong way the next time you change a bulb.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... :.::: ::..: ::.::. :..:: Tagline in Braille

In article , "Mungo \"one shed\" Toadfoot"
writes
rrh wrote:
It's like all these things. If you find something like that, who
knows what else is lurking under there? Rip it all out. Fix it. I
guarantee you'll sleep better. And you know that you and your family
will be safe.

This is true, though it sounds alarmist. We found a Flymo connector
plastered into one wall; it joined two lengths of 2.5mm to extend a socket!
http://members.lycos.co.uk/Skanksville/id98.htm

Si


**Living Design** put in a kitchen for my Dad. They wired in an extra
socket for the washing machine directly under the sink waste pipe. Guess
what happened when the washing machine broke down and the waste got
blocked?
They also wired in a socket on another wall.
At this time I am re-wiring and flushing in all accessories including
all the kitchen which is brick wall and concrete floor and uncovered how
they connected it up. There is a chocolate block (5A even) behind one of
the [then] existing sockets, plastered into the wall (no mechanical
protection) and they have spurred to the w/m socket then spurred again
to the additional socket on the other wall.

3 wall cupboards, 1 sink unit /cupboard, 1cooker hood cupboard, 1
standard width and 1 narrow under counter cupboard, no appliances, no
tiling, cheap as hell surface sockets, cooker hood unvented to outside,

For this small kitchen he was charged 3.5G!!!!!
--
Z
Remove all Zeds in e-mail address to reply.