Roland Perry wrote:
I'm no expert on small factories, really, so I'm not sure. But I'm not
sure what difference that makes because if you plonk a small factory
where every carpark is, you've got a vastly changed energy landscape
anyway.

No-one is suggesting replacing car parks with factories.

I realise that: I'm just again uncertain about where this small
factory comparison is useful. It probably consumes about as much power
as emitted by a certain weight of rotting haddock, with or without a
dropped zero! What I'm wondering at is the purpose of the
comparison. My best guess at the moment from reading the thread is
that it was introduced to say "not so much electricity": that a car
park wouldn't consume such a large quantity of electricity, no more
than a small factory. So as we'd need one in most car parks that
extends to "wiring carparks wouldn't consume so much, no more than if
they were small factories": the comparison extendeing only to power
consumption. And then I imagine a power engineer standing on a hill
overlooking a city full of small factories (like a Sheffield of yore)
and I can see that they'd see a power landscape which was quite
intimidating, SO a power landscape of wired carparks would be
similarly intimidating.

So we drive more than 5 miles a day in an electric car

That seems like a bit of a pointless occupation to me.

What, driving only 5 miles a day?

Why electric cars? Electricity is an inefficient, but flexible energy
transmission medium. I always think it best not to think of it as a
power source, but a really cunning drive shaft type system. So having
an electric car would mean that we can have cars powered by what? We
surely need to concentrate on getting our existing demands for things
which are very difficult to run on other fuels supplied renewably
first? Doubling or tripling demand for something you're still not sure
how to supply is a bit silly?

Dan.

Frank Erskine wrote:
I don't have a TV. Virtually all broadcast TV that I've seen in recent
years has been dumbed down tosuch an extent that the company known as
'TV Licensing' can't offer me value for money, so I eschew their
product.

I'm guessing they still invoice the entire country, as it's cheaper
that way, and then use a warrant to search your premsises to prove you
don't use their product if you complain?

Dan.

Frank Erskine wrote:
I don't have a TV. Virtually all broadcast TV that I've seen in recent
years has been dumbed down tosuch an extent that the company known as
'TV Licensing' can't offer me value for money, so I eschew their
product.

Oh look. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694

Derek Geldard wrote:
According to a trucker on the rajo.

They take an axle out and use the space for an extra large fuel tank.

Around our way there are some trucks parked up with massive tanks
between the cab and the, um, load. It's a bit like the days of the
steam engine all over again. The tanks are the full height and width
of the cab, but only extend back about two feet. That still makes them
about 450gallons, though, by my reckoning, or about 4000 miles or so,
I think. Should keep you going.

Dan.

On Fri, 30 May 2008 16:03:00 +0100, Dan Sheppard
wrote:

Frank Erskine wrote:
I don't have a TV. Virtually all broadcast TV that I've seen in recent
years has been dumbed down tosuch an extent that the company known as
'TV Licensing' can't offer me value for money, so I eschew their
product.

I'm guessing they still invoice the entire country, as it's cheaper
that way, and then use a warrant to search your premsises to prove you
don't use their product if you complain?

Dan.


They haven't searched mine yet.

"Dan Sheppard" wrote in message
...
Frank Erskine wrote:
I don't have a TV. Virtually all broadcast TV that I've seen in recent
years has been dumbed down tosuch an extent that the company known as
'TV Licensing' can't offer me value for money, so I eschew their
product.

I'm guessing they still invoice the entire country, as it's cheaper
that way, and then use a warrant to search your premsises to prove you
don't use their product if you complain?

Nope. Haven't heard from them for many years.

--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor

"Dan Sheppard" wrote in message
...
Frank Erskine wrote:
I don't have a TV. Virtually all broadcast TV that I've seen in recent
years has been dumbed down tosuch an extent that the company known as
'TV Licensing' can't offer me value for money, so I eschew their
product.

I'm guessing they still invoice the entire country, as it's cheaper
that way, and then use a warrant to search your premsises to prove you
don't use their product if you complain?

Dan.

I've never complained but once a TVL chap came while we were in the garden.
Still don't understand that! He said he didn't want to come into the house,
he could see that we didn't have a tv. I insisted that he came in but we
ended up talking about clocks ...

Mary

On Fri, 30 May 2008 09:58:16 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


Well, you made several meaningless statements about the bus drive ...

Name at least one.

I've
never seen a professional bovine

I suppose if I kindly point out that it wasn't me who wrote that, you
will say you never said it was, at which point I shall start to wonder
why you mentioned it in the first place.

and how do you know what the driver
intended?

where have I suggested that I do? I did say "sounds like..." and
having had two friends who drove buses in Cambridge (how many have you
had?) I know from what they've told me about some of the abuse that
they get (like one who was threatened because the previous two buses
hadn't shown up) that that's what they feel like sometimes.

If it was the line about PMT, look up irony in your dictionary of
humour

Your opinions say more about you than about the driver :-)

cliché cliché cliché

Linda ff

On Fri, 30 May 2008 10:02:44 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Already covered, but we do know that a few authors write so well that
they're worth reading. I'm just finishing a Rose Macaulay book, a very
challenging tome which I've read five times, with no break between. I get
more from it every time but I might just leave it for a few months when I've
turned the last page and my eyes have moistened again.

or a CD

We buy very few CDs and only those made by specialist musicians whose
performances we've heard live.

You see, we prefer to make our own lives rather than live vicariously. This
is a DIY group after all :-)

Are you not aware you are crossposting, then? Get a newsreader that
alerts you to the fact.

And what is reading fiction if not living vicariously?

Linda ff

Mary Fisher wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

How can you select what you might enjoy in advance?

Easy... experience, reputation, and association.

How do you know that you are going to enjoy a book

Already covered, but we do know that a few authors write so well that
they're worth reading. I'm just finishing a Rose Macaulay book, a very
challenging tome which I've read five times, with no break between. I get
more from it every time but I might just leave it for a few months when I've
turned the last page and my eyes have moistened again.

or a CD

We buy very few CDs and only those made by specialist musicians whose
performances we've heard live.

My point exactly. You can predict in advance with reasonable accuracy.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:56:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
Electricity would seem to be a sensible choice. We don't after all use
electric heaters to heat petrol cars in winter do we?

The Nordics do.

What, heaters whilst running? (electric engine block heaters are very
common here - plug into the mains a while before you need to use the car,
as otherwise there's just no way it's going to start in mid-winter. I've
not heard of someone using an electric heater to warm the passenger cabin
whilst moving, though)

cheers

Jules

In message . com, at
14:08:37 on Fri, 30 May 2008, Jules
remarked:
I've not heard of someone using an electric heater to warm the
passenger cabin whilst moving, though)

Many Volvos have electric seat warmers.
--
Roland Perry

Dan Sheppard wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

So we drive more than 5 miles a day in an electric car
That seems like a bit of a pointless occupation to me.
What, driving only 5 miles a day?

Why electric cars? Electricity is an inefficient,

Highly efficient.

but flexible energy
transmission medium. I always think it best not to think of it as a
power source, but a really cunning drive shaft type system. So having
an electric car would mean that we can have cars powered by what?

Nuclear energy. If you must, wind and wave power.

We
surely need to concentrate on getting our existing demands for things
which are very difficult to run on other fuels supplied renewably
first? Doubling or tripling demand for something you're still not sure
how to supply is a bit silly?

We know perfectly well how to generate electricity more efficiently than
a car burns fuel.
The only thing we will never run on lithum batteries is a (full size)
aircraft above a couple of people payload for an hour...

The issue being that nearly all renewable sources of energy are easily
transalatle into electricity, apart from low garde heat, which is really
only useful as a means of heating spaces.

Dont think of fossil fuels as as power source, but a really cunning
drive shaft type system. But outdated by electrical technology, and the
'batteries' that nature charged up for us over a few million years, are
running flat..



Dan.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:54:21 on
Thu, 29 May 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
Many carparks are multi-storey, and constructed largely from
reinforced concrete. Digging that lot up to run a power cable to
every bay will be quite a feat.

Get real. They already have surface trunking for lighting. Its only
a ruddy car park.
Won't that make the floor a bit bumpy? Car parks have wide areas
where the only surface the vehicle is near, is the floor.

Multi storey ones have ceilings.

Except on the top floor. Are you proposing dangling these poles from the
ceiling?

Its sound enough if that suits the layout..

They manage ti ge the ticket machines into car parks all over the
place without any trouble,

Yes, one or two near the lifts, not a pole at every parking space.

I think you will find a lot of pillars.

On Fri, 30 May 2008 14:08:37 -0500, Jules
wrote:

On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:56:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
Electricity would seem to be a sensible choice. We don't after all use
electric heaters to heat petrol cars in winter do we?

The Nordics do.

What, heaters whilst running? (electric engine block heaters are very
common here - plug into the mains a while before you need to use the car,
as otherwise there's just no way it's going to start in mid-winter. I've
not heard of someone using an electric heater to warm the passenger cabin
whilst moving, though)

I'd heard of Saabs which were plugged in overnight to stop them
freezing up.

Husband reading over my shoulder says it was a regular thing in
certain parts of Canada when he was there in the 70s, that every
parking space at work had a socket. An anti-freze thing rather than a
keep-you-warm-while-you-drive thing.

Linda ff

In message , at 20:59:23 on
Fri, 30 May 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
They manage ti ge the ticket machines into car parks all over the
place without any trouble,
Yes, one or two near the lifts, not a pole at every parking space.

I think you will find a lot of pillars.

Very few of which have ticket machines next to them.

Typically pillars are at the end of rows of spaces, and even then the
socket is going to be on the wrong side 50% of the time.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 30 May 2008 14:08:37 -0500, Jules wrote:

On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:56:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
Electricity would seem to be a sensible choice. We don't after all use
electric heaters to heat petrol cars in winter do we?

The Nordics do.

What, heaters whilst running? (electric engine block heaters are very
common here - plug into the mains a while before you need to use the
car, as otherwise there's just no way it's going to start in mid-winter.
I've not heard of someone using an electric heater to warm the passenger
cabin whilst moving, though)

cheers

Jules
==================================
Electric space heaters and demisters were widely advertised in motoring
magazines about 30 years ago. Here is a modern sophisticated version:

http://www.r4us.com/gadgets/index.ph...oductId=186882

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

On Fri, 30 May 2008 16:21:13 +0100, August West
wrote:

Dan Sheppard writes:

Derek Geldard wrote:

According to a trucker on the rajo.
They take an axle out and use the space for an extra large fuel tank.

Around our way there are some trucks parked up with massive tanks
between the cab and the, um, load. It's a bit like the days of the
steam engine all over again. The tanks are the full height and width
of the cab, but only extend back about two feet. That still makes them
about 450gallons, though, by my reckoning, or about 4000 miles or so,
I think. Should keep you going.

This being the case, where's the problem? Are UK hauliers somehow unable
to fit the same large tanks, and go to where the fuel is cheap, fill up,
and then compete with the nasty forigners?

What do we buy from the Baltic states? Top of the list when I was
there seemed to be wooden pallets. They don't get enough daylight to
even grow wheat - Cabbages and Beetroot it is then.

It seems the big trucking companies (Stobart Et Al) who have other big
UK Blue Chip companies as customers don't even attempt to compete at
that level.

However, the driver (apparently a significant proportion of the cost
of running a truck) still needs to draw wages on a UK scale not a
Latvian or Lithuanian scale in order to meet UK living costs and
satisfy minimum wage regulations, not to mention pay UK tax and a
great deal of UK haulage is done by (family) owner driver companies
with 1 - 4 trucks. It is these people who are threatened with imminent
bankruptcy staring them in the face.

IGWS it's not a good time to be a-selling second hand trucks.

DG

On Thu, 29 May 2008 17:16:47 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

Still doesn't answer my question, which was promted by your comment
about widgets:

"Sorry but F.Bloggs Hauliers Ltd taking a pallet of widgets from A to
B is not an "essential user".

"Until your widget supplier runs out when you need one desperately ..."

That is bad planning on my part for not foreseeing that a particular
widget has a critical role to play. I have spares and backups available
for most things and if not a direct permanent replacement I probably have
something that could be pressed into service as a temporary measure.

If a supplier doesn't have stock of a normal stock item it's poor stock
control. A decent stock control system takes into account lead times and
normal demand levels ensuring that new stock arrives well before the last
of the old stock is sold.

And you feel the loss of Indian restaurants ...

And why shouldn't I? The nearest one is 20+ miles away and even then I
don't know if they are any good! Being that far from suppliers of useful
widgets is probably what I have stock of most things and backups
available. If you live 10 mins from a DIY store you'd just nip out for a
washer if you need one rather than have some in stock.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 29 May 2008 17:11:39 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

Yep, I accept that and we already do. It's to far to go for a trip to a
decent cinema, the theatre or even a good indian restaurant.

We have access to many, never use them though ...

Your choice, I doubt we would use a cinema more than once a year, theatre
perhaps a little more often. I'm the one who misses a good indian
restaurant, SWMBO'd doesn't like anything "spicy".

But it's far better living here than on an anonymous estate where you
don't even see your neighbours 10 yards away let alone know them.

What an odd idea you have of other people's lives :-)

BTDTGTTS used to live on an modernish estate, end of a small close. Knew
the neighbours one side, and one family across the close. Saw the 50% of
the others very occasionally as they went from front door to car or vice
versa. The others never saw them at all. Similarly in a block converted
into 14 flats, I could only recognise about 5 other people who lived in
the block. I put it down to modern urban living, no one has any time, they
are all too busy rushing about, chasing some advertisers image of dream
home.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Linda Fox" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 May 2008 14:08:37 -0500, Jules
wrote:

On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:56:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
Electricity would seem to be a sensible choice. We don't after all use
electric heaters to heat petrol cars in winter do we?

The Nordics do.

What, heaters whilst running? (electric engine block heaters are very
common here - plug into the mains a while before you need to use the car,
as otherwise there's just no way it's going to start in mid-winter. I've
not heard of someone using an electric heater to warm the passenger cabin
whilst moving, though)

I'd heard of Saabs which were plugged in overnight to stop them
freezing up.

Husband reading over my shoulder says it was a regular thing in
certain parts of Canada when he was there in the 70s, that every
parking space at work had a socket. An anti-freze thing rather than a
keep-you-warm-while-you-drive thing.

I think you will find supermarket car parks have electric sockets too,
otherwise the car isn't going to start after a 30 minute shop in -40 temps.

Linda Fox wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 14:08:37 -0500, Jules
wrote:

On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:56:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
Electricity would seem to be a sensible choice. We don't after all use
electric heaters to heat petrol cars in winter do we?
The Nordics do.
What, heaters whilst running? (electric engine block heaters are very
common here - plug into the mains a while before you need to use the car,
as otherwise there's just no way it's going to start in mid-winter. I've
not heard of someone using an electric heater to warm the passenger cabin
whilst moving, though)

I'd heard of Saabs which were plugged in overnight to stop them
freezing up.

Husband reading over my shoulder says it was a regular thing in
certain parts of Canada when he was there in the 70s, that every
parking space at work had a socket. An anti-freze thing rather than a
keep-you-warm-while-you-drive thing.

Linda ff

Gosh. However did they manage to solve the cable problem that is
worrying Roland so much?

In message , at 22:03:19 on
Fri, 30 May 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
Husband reading over my shoulder says it was a regular thing in
certain parts of Canada when he was there in the 70s, that every
parking space at work had a socket. An anti-freze thing rather than a
keep-you-warm-while-you-drive thing.

Gosh. However did they manage to solve the cable problem that is
worrying Roland so much?

The car park may have been designed for them, rather than being
retro-fitted. And if Canada is anything like the USA, most car parks
will be ground floor and tarmac, not multi-storey and concrete.
--
Roland Perry

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 17:11:39 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

Yep, I accept that and we already do. It's to far to go for a trip to a
decent cinema, the theatre or even a good indian restaurant.
We have access to many, never use them though ...

Your choice, I doubt we would use a cinema more than once a year, theatre
perhaps a little more often. I'm the one who misses a good indian
restaurant, SWMBO'd doesn't like anything "spicy".

But it's far better living here than on an anonymous estate where you
don't even see your neighbours 10 yards away let alone know them.
What an odd idea you have of other people's lives :-)

BTDTGTTS used to live on an modernish estate, end of a small close. Knew
the neighbours one side, and one family across the close. Saw the 50% of
the others very occasionally as they went from front door to car or vice
versa. The others never saw them at all. Similarly in a block converted
into 14 flats, I could only recognise about 5 other people who lived in
the block. I put it down to modern urban living, no one has any time, they
are all too busy rushing about, chasing some advertisers image of dream
home.

The more people there are about, the less you naturally want to engage
with them.

We hit the Chelsea flower show last week and I was just about ready to
start screaming as I couldnt walk an inch without bumping into someone
or elbowing or being elbowed out of the way.

Most days here, I dont actually see ANYONE apart from my wife and the
postman.

And that's only if there is a parcel to be signed for.

"Rod" wrote in message
...
CWatters wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
Probably a better place in the thread for this post, but I am getting
lost. :-)

We are used to seeing contractors' vans towing compressors. Is there any
reason not to follow that model for electric/hybrids? By which I mean:

Have a pure electric vehicle for short journeys.

Have a module that includes a power source (probably an ICE and
generator).

I've actually seen that done. I was at an event in the USA several years
ago and a Tzero turned up towing a trailer with a generator on it. They
had driven it quite a long way to get there as I recall. I thought they
said it wasn't really a practical proposition but perhaps that has
changed.

Photo here..

http://www.evworld.com/images/tzero-trailer.jpg

http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero/
Exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. But, I would hope, better
integrated.

Maybe if put into production a super lightweight one could be produced?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org


I thought it was small. It has to contain a normal size diesel/petrol
engine, generator and fuel tank. Particularly if you want to cruise long
distance at motorway speeds.

On Fri, 30 May 2008 21:08:51 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 20:59:23 on
Fri, 30 May 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
They manage ti ge the ticket machines into car parks all over the
place without any trouble,
Yes, one or two near the lifts, not a pole at every parking space.

I think you will find a lot of pillars.

Very few of which have ticket machines next to them.

Typically pillars are at the end of rows of spaces, and even then the
socket is going to be on the wrong side 50% of the time.

Drilling small holes in concrete isn't particularly expensive.

CWatters wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
CWatters wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
Probably a better place in the thread for this post, but I am getting
lost. :-)

We are used to seeing contractors' vans towing compressors. Is there any
reason not to follow that model for electric/hybrids? By which I mean:

Have a pure electric vehicle for short journeys.

Have a module that includes a power source (probably an ICE and
generator).
I've actually seen that done. I was at an event in the USA several years
ago and a Tzero turned up towing a trailer with a generator on it. They
had driven it quite a long way to get there as I recall. I thought they
said it wasn't really a practical proposition but perhaps that has
changed.

Photo here..

http://www.evworld.com/images/tzero-trailer.jpg

http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero/
Exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. But, I would hope, better
integrated.

Maybe if put into production a super lightweight one could be produced?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org


I thought it was small. It has to contain a normal size diesel/petrol
engine, generator and fuel tank. Particularly if you want to cruise long
distance at motorway speeds.


For what it is/was, very nicely done.

The weight comment was in response to TNP's post.

The "integrated" comment was based on my thinking that it should slot
into the "towing" vehicle and be rigidly attached.

In fact, it might be sensible to make the unit physically larger. Thus,
providing the user with the possibility of adding carrying capacity at
the same time. (Which could also be used occasionally even on short
journeys.) Sort of an extra boot. Or a way of leaving half your car at
home most of the time.

Some years ago, I remember seeing a Saab which had a trailer made of the
back half of another Saab. I think it might have inspired me.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On 2008-05-30 20:08:37 +0100, Jules
said:

On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:56:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
Electricity would seem to be a sensible choice. We don't after all use
electric heaters to heat petrol cars in winter do we?

The Nordics do.

What, heaters whilst running? (electric engine block heaters are very
common here - plug into the mains a while before you need to use the car,
as otherwise there's just no way it's going to start in mid-winter. I've
not heard of someone using an electric heater to warm the passenger cabin
whilst moving, though)

cheers

Jules

As you said - engine block heaters and small fan heaters in the car to
warm it before leaving.

On 2008-05-30 22:28:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

The more people there are about, the less you naturally want to engage
with them.

We hit the Chelsea flower show last week and I was just about ready to
start screaming as I couldnt walk an inch without bumping into someone
or elbowing or being elbowed out of the way.

Most days here, I dont actually see ANYONE apart from my wife and the postman.


Not the milkman any more? ;-)

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Thu, 29 May 2008 17:11:39 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

Yep, I accept that and we already do. It's to far to go for a trip to a
decent cinema, the theatre or even a good indian restaurant.

We have access to many, never use them though ...

Your choice, I doubt we would use a cinema more than once a year, theatre
perhaps a little more often. I'm the one who misses a good indian
restaurant, SWMBO'd doesn't like anything "spicy".

I do, we cook our own. We were taught by Indian neighbours :-)

But it's far better living here than on an anonymous estate where you
don't even see your neighbours 10 yards away let alone know them.

What an odd idea you have of other people's lives :-)

BTDTGTTS used to live on an modernish estate, end of a small close. Knew
the neighbours one side, and one family across the close. Saw the 50% of
the others very occasionally as they went from front door to car or vice
versa. The others never saw them at all. Similarly in a block converted
into 14 flats, I could only recognise about 5 other people who lived in
the block. I put it down to modern urban living, no one has any time, they
are all too busy rushing about, chasing some advertisers image of dream
home.

You could have visited them, introduced yourself ... I reckon that most
people in this street know most of the others.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 22:03:19 on
Fri, 30 May 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
Husband reading over my shoulder says it was a regular thing in
certain parts of Canada when he was there in the 70s, that every
parking space at work had a socket. An anti-freze thing rather than a
keep-you-warm-while-you-drive thing.

Gosh. However did they manage to solve the cable problem that is
worrying Roland so much?

The car park may have been designed for them, rather than being
retro-fitted. And if Canada is anything like the USA, most car parks
will be ground floor and tarmac, not multi-storey and concrete.

I still don't see how you see that as an insurmountable problem. You
surface run cables around the outside walls; that's all the bays facing
those walls taken care of. The interior likely involves some facing bays
in lines where you can run a gentle curb along the short end where the
bays face each other and stick the cable in there. There are reasonable
odds there will be some columns inside the structure to meet these curbs
so you can run the cables down to the curb from those, or worst case you
run a channel through the top layer of the concrete for a few meters to
get under any surface the cars will be driving over to get to your curb
from one of the outside walls.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

The articles are about the future. The electric Mini gets 200 miles
range and outperforms a Porche.


Do you have anything except the manufacturer's claims to substantiate
that claim? I can't find anything.

Andy

magwitch wrote:

Diesels don't have catalytic converters... petrol engines do and
therefore emit more C02

Actually, diesels do have cats (simpler, plain oxidising ones) and they
are more efficient because of the higher compression ratio and lack of
throttle butterfly.

If cats was it, pre-cat petrol engines would have been as efficient as
diesels of the same era. Which they weren't, which is why old trucks
were diesel.

Andy

Jules wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:56:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
Electricity would seem to be a sensible choice. We don't after all use
electric heaters to heat petrol cars in winter do we?
The Nordics do.

What, heaters whilst running? (electric engine block heaters are very
common here - plug into the mains a while before you need to use the car,
as otherwise there's just no way it's going to start in mid-winter. I've
not heard of someone using an electric heater to warm the passenger cabin
whilst moving, though)

However, cars do sometimes have a filament to boost the heat coming into
the cabin from over the engine and air-cooled VWs certainly used
electric heating.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
snip
Its also horribly expensive to actually DRIVE to the south of
France..lowest carbon way is probably by air..


Almost certainly by train. Air is however far cheaper - largely because
the airlines do not have to pay for laying track...

Andy

Roberts wrote:

Please don't top post.

Electric cars will not cut emissions. When batteries are being charged they
give off an explosive vapour. This also contains particles of the battery
which is very harmful. The green people should look at the complete scene
not just a little part which seems to suit them. Try visiting a place where
they have a fleet of electric vehicles and visit the battery charging shop.
If we do go over to electric vehicles a lot of people will get killed or
injured because people don't hear them coming. I know that from working at
Gatwick where they had a large fleet although that was years ago. Do not
forget all the factories that will be needed to make these motive power
batteries and then all the extra power stations and how will they be
powered?
Also people pushing for hydrogen power should be made to watch the film of
the Hindenburg disaster.


Modern batteries are sealed systems, its the "conventional" lead-acid
batteries that generate hydrogen when charging.

The rest of your points are valid.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
snip
Its also horribly expensive to actually DRIVE to the south of
France..lowest carbon way is probably by air..


Almost certainly by train. Air is however far cheaper - largely because
the airlines do not have to pay for laying track...

Andy
Surprisingly not. More friction and weight on a train than a plane.

Jules wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:56:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
Electricity would seem to be a sensible choice. We don't after all use
electric heaters to heat petrol cars in winter do we?
The Nordics do.

What, heaters whilst running? (electric engine block heaters are very
common here - plug into the mains a while before you need to use the car,
as otherwise there's just no way it's going to start in mid-winter. I've
not heard of someone using an electric heater to warm the passenger cabin
whilst moving, though)


Yes. Little fan heaters.

Mind, that was in Helsinki in January...

Andy

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

Its also horribly expensive to actually DRIVE to the south of
France..lowest carbon way is probably by air..


Almost certainly by train. Air is however far cheaper - largely because
the airlines do not have to pay for laying track...

Andy
Surprisingly not. More friction and weight on a train than a plane.

Where did you get that from?

Planes are usually ranked no better than cars and the mean greenies
would have us believe that trains are 50% better than cars.

--
Roger Chapman

On Fri, 30 May 2008 21:07:47 +0100, Linda Fox wrote:
Husband reading over my shoulder says it was a regular thing in
certain parts of Canada when he was there in the 70s, that every
parking space at work had a socket. An anti-freze thing rather than a
keep-you-warm-while-you-drive thing.

Yep, very common around here. Most hotels have outlets in the parking lot
to plug the block heater into, too (power's cheap enough that they just
provide it as a free service, I suppose)

cheers

Jules