On 2008-05-28 10:28:39 +0100, Huge said:

On 2008-05-27, Roger wrote:
The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

But what?


Electric cars from non fossil generated electricity will cut both carbon
and other emissions?

Yes but switching to diesel saves precious little.

It probably saves about 30%.

It won't save more than about 25% at best.

My Td5 Discovery does about 22mpg in everyday use. The 4.0 Range Rover it
replaced did 13mpg under the same conditions. That's significantly better than
25%.

Sadly, the price differential is eroding the benefit on a daily basis.

And on my last visit to the US, I discovered why diesel cars aren't popular
there; petrol is $3.30-odd a gallon, diesel $4.30-odd.

Plus people still think that they are noisy, chuggy things like buses.

In message , at
21:24:37 on Tue, 27 May 2008, CWatters
remarked:
Well I used 200miles because that is what is currently achievable at
decent performance with LI-Ion batteries.

Which car is that, then?

Try this "home made" car built in 2004..

Well, it's a "car" I suppose. Not exactly room for a family of four and
their shopping.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 12:22:55 on
Tue, 27 May 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
There's also the problem of people not necessarily having access to
charging sockets at either home _or_ work currently, which would
require a LOT of infrastructure upgrades in order to be provided.

Domestically its a twelve hour charge overnight on cheap rate. Easy
enough for those with garages and well within domestic supply limits.

For regulated car parking, again easy enough to add socket-in-pole
charging meters.

Wring bit of the infrastructure. The problem is having enough power
delivered to the "socket in pole" and domestic equivalent.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:51:52 on
Tue, 27 May 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
60A at 240v is 172Kwh over 12 hours, That is the limit of a domestic
single phase supply cabling and fusing, though most COULD be upgraded
to 100A.

The tails to people's houses are one thing. But the substations and
power beneath the streets is something else!
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 28 May 2008 10:07:21 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Tim Ward" wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

A scooter travelling well within any speed limit will arrive at a
destination sooner than legally driven cars most of the time.

If you live that long. I gave up driving a bike years ago, when just too
many people in cars had tried to kill me.

I said 'legally driven' ...

They kill pedestrians and occupants of cars too.

I don't LIKE motor bikes of any kind but it seems that they're involved in
fewer accidents than cars, per capita.

Oh Dear.

(And as to speed, my C90 just about managed 60mph when slipstreaming
downhill at exactly the optimum distance behind a juggernaut. It was only
faster than a car when driving around town.)

And did that speed matter? I can't understand why everyone's in such a
hurry. They say they want to save time - for what? Getting home and watching
tv??

Because it's safer keeping up with the prevailing speed of the
traffic.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2008-05-27, Mike P wrote:

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

And the answer to how big that is, is well under half a tonne for the
smaller one.

...or about half the weight of the rest of the car...

Similar to the power train on an IC car.

Rubbish. Rover's K-series weighs about 130kg with transmission. Add 50kg
for fuel, and you have a complete powertrain with a 300 mile range (and
five minutes recharge for the next 300 miles) for 40% of that "half a
ton".

The powertrain on a 2cv - engine and gearbox - is light enough to be
carried by two people. With 25 litres of fuel, it'll give a four-seater
car weighing half a ton _complete_ a range of 200+ miles.

You must be getting weak. I can carry a 2CV engine and box myself :-)

I've picked up a Mini engine & gearbox. Briefly.

I've picked up the front of a Hillman Avenger to get the axle stands out..

it got some poor passing kid a whack around the ear...

"mummy, mummy, that man just picked up a car", "don't tell lies", whack!

Some people shouldn't have kids.

Jon Green wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
This is another reason for the diesel and for using commecial pumps.
Apart from faster delivery, they have the little wire insert on the
pump handle which means that it's not necessary to hold the trigger.

I've often thought about putting a little (but sturdy) metal eye-pin on
my keyring, to replace the missing pin during fuelling. Never got a
round tuit, though. American pumps have them, so I don't really
understand why UK ones don't.


Many years ago I used to use a garage which had them fitted. It was
technically not self-service - owner said that if he went self-service
he would have to remove the thingies - he put it down to insurance
requirements. (In reality, most of the customers were locals who
actually filled their own while chatting to owner/owner's wife.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:483d4485@qaanaaq...
On 2008-05-28 10:24:03 +0100, Huge said:

On 2008-05-28, Jon Green wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
This is another reason for the diesel and for using commecial pumps.
Apart from faster delivery, they have the little wire insert on the
pump handle which means that it's not necessary to hold the trigger.

I've often thought about putting a little (but sturdy) metal eye-pin on
my keyring, to replace the missing pin during fuelling. Never got a
round tuit, though. American pumps have them, so I don't really
understand why UK ones don't.

Elfin Saftey fascists, I expect.

Ironically the U.S. arrangement is probably safer. The pump is tripped
off when the tank is full and it is virtually impossible to top off the
tank and spill fuel.

So are UK ones, ask your chauffer.

They even have vapour extraction around the nozzle in the form of a
flexible concertina plastic thingy

That is too meet the total emissions requirement for the cars.
If you suck the vapour back into the tank it allows you more kerbside
emissions when driving.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...



Some people shouldn't have kids.

Yes. I apologise but can't do anything about it now :-(

Mary

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

RX400h - he

http://www.lexus.co.uk/hybrid/index.aspx

Prices seem to be in the 35 to 40 thousand pounds. (Each.)

Hmm. Although we're not on the breadline I don't think our piggy bank is
as
fat as that ... but I'll have a look anyway. Thanks,

Hmm. I would have thought you would have thrown up your hands in horror
at such a monstrous abomination. How anyone could consider 195 gmsCO2/km
in the least bit green is beyond me.

Its a hybrid, it has to be green, ask drivel.
What's more it stores all the emissions until it is away from the kerbs so
it can have zero kerbside emissions.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:483d43a6@qaanaaq...
On 2008-05-28 10:56:07 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Jon Green" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:


"Jon Green" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
This is another reason for the diesel and for using commecial pumps.
Apart from faster delivery, they have the little wire insert on the
pump handle which means that it's not necessary to hold the trigger.

I've often thought about putting a little (but sturdy) metal eye-pin
on my keyring, to replace the missing pin during fuelling. Never got
a round tuit, though. American pumps have them, so I don't really
understand why UK ones don't.

Once some idiot has flooded the forecourt with a few hundred liters of
fuel you will understand.

How often does that happen in the US, then?


It doesn't matter, it can, but not if they have to hold the handle.



This doesn't happen because the trip mechanism in the handle still works.
All petrol stations I have used in the U.S. have the latch wires on the
pump handles. I have never seen a flood of fuel.



So we are to assume you spend 24 hrs a day watching petrol stations looking
for fuel spills?
I have never seen a plane crash, or a train crash but they happen.
I bet you haven't seen one either so are you are going to say they don't
happen either?
People that stupidly state "I have never seen one" and expect anyone to take
any notice are, well, being stupid.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 May 2008 23:46:46 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:


We got rid of our second car some yers ago, replacing it with a 125cc
scooter. It's fine for local journeys and has at least a 100 mile range.
We don't need 70mph because we don't use it for that sort of journey -
why should we want to?

It probably chucks out so much muck that it makes a diesel bus look clean.

If it's petrol (and most are) it that's unlikely.

Especially if its a two stroke.

2/s are being phased out in many fields (outboards etc)

Nobody that uses a scooter or motor bike can claim to be clean.

Even the Vectrix?

And isn't doing 80 mpg on an old 250 motorbike better than doing 10
mpg in an old car (even if neither is clean).

No cats and burn oil.

I think you will find many bikes come with cats, even 50cc scooters ..
;-)

I think you will find most don't have one.
Even the ones that do have them taken off by some idiot that wants a bit
more power and noise.


http://www.scooterstyle.com.au/index10.php

Why not on the PMX?

It doesn't say if they are closed loop cats or just two stage convertors.
You need closed loop to get the emissions down.


And what do we do with the polluted cat when that's finished it's
life?

The cat doesn't get polluted.

You could recycle it.. about 50% steel and about 50% ceramic sand by the
time its crushed.
The very small amount of platinum and such like can be extracted if its
economical, it isn't an environmental problem.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2008-05-28, Jon Green wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
This is another reason for the diesel and for using commecial
pumps. Apart from faster delivery, they have the little wire
insert on the pump handle which means that it's not necessary to
hold the trigger.
I've often thought about putting a little (but sturdy) metal eye-pin
on my keyring, to replace the missing pin during fuelling. Never got
a round tuit, though. American pumps have them, so I don't really
understand why UK ones don't.

Elfin Saftey fascists, I expect.


Safety.
Your welcome :-)

You're.

Yaw welcome.

Jon
--
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
with 'green-lines'.

Mary Fisher wrote:
Then there's the BSA ...

Oh, promise me that's an A65, still running and offered for sale... *grin*

... Sadly, I didn't hear it fire up - it was
gone before we were.

And you didn't hear it???

No, and we were right next to the window too (with the Trump parked up
near the delivery entrance). Mind you, modern Trumps are pretty quiet
until you open them up.

Jon
--
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
with 'green-lines'.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:483d4317@qaanaaq...
On 2008-05-28 10:23:25 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Jon Green" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
This is another reason for the diesel and for using commecial pumps.
Apart from faster delivery, they have the little wire insert on the
pump handle which means that it's not necessary to hold the trigger.

I've often thought about putting a little (but sturdy) metal eye-pin on
my keyring, to replace the missing pin during fuelling. Never got a
round tuit, though. American pumps have them, so I don't really
understand why UK ones don't.

Once some idiot has flooded the forecourt with a few hundred liters of
fuel you will understand.



That's nonsense. The full tank trip mechanism still works even with the
latch wire in place.



That's nonsense as there are other failure modes than a tank overflowing.

In message et, at
11:35:45 on Tue, 27 May 2008, Dave Liquorice
remarked:
On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:55:09 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

200 miles is a very large threshold. I'd use 50 miles as where "long
distance" starts.

Depends where you live. 50 miles is barely enough for our weekly shopping
run, the monthly one is 100 miles...

Where do you live?

My weekly shop is about two miles, and I don't do a monthly shop as the
weekly place has everything I need (that isn't within walking distance
already).

And how well does an electric car cope with altitude changes? Hartside
rises 400m (1300') in about 4 miles. There is a 1400' difference between
home and the weekly shopping destination as well.

An electric car shouldn't be affected by altitude. Are you starting the
trip from the top or the bottom?

Fine for your 10 mile each way commute but that would be better served
with decent public transport rather than thousands of single occupancy
cars.

Agreed.
--
Roland Perry

In article et,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Fine but you need roughly 4MJ of energy to lift a 1 tonne car through
400m (1300'). Currently this 4 mile/400m section takes about 10mins so
you are looking at 24kWh of motor just to do the vertical lift of the
car let alone deal with the accelaration after sharp 2nd gear bends...
And of course that capacity and more in the battery at the bottom to
get you to the top.

Arthur Clark's book "The Fountains of Paradise" springs to mind as the
ultimate example of what you're stating!

--
Richard Torrens -
The email address used here is time limited and must not be added to any mailing list: A charge will be invoiced for handling any unsolicited mailing list emails received.

In article 483d43a6@qaanaaq, Andy Hall wrote:

This doesn't happen because the trip mechanism in the handle still
works. All petrol stations I have used in the U.S. have the latch
wires on the pump handles. I have never seen a flood of fuel.

I've encountered pumps where the cutoff doesn't work reliably (and got
a leg splashed in petrol as a result). Had these pumps been able to
run unattended, I'm not keen on the idea of what might have happened.

In article , Mary Fisher wrote:
"Tim Ward" wrote in message
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
A scooter travelling well within any speed limit will arrive at a
destination sooner than legally driven cars most of the time.
If you live that long. I gave up driving a bike years ago, when just too
many people in cars had tried to kill me.
I said 'legally driven' ...

You said it would arrive sooner than legally driven cars, not that we
should assume the carelessly driven cars didn't also exist.


They kill pedestrians and occupants of cars too.
I don't LIKE motor bikes of any kind but it seems that they're involved in
fewer accidents than cars, per capita.

But an impact that will write off a car and leave its occupants shaken
will kill a biker, so it takes fewer accidents to kill them.
(Pedestrians are just as vulnerable or more so, but less likely to be
sharing the road with the cars for long distances.)

The message 483d4280@qaanaaq
from Andy Hall contains these words:

Hmm. I would have thought you would have thrown up your hands in horror
at such a monstrous abomination. How anyone could consider 195 gmsCO2/km
in the least bit green is beyond me.

My Land Rover is green. Does that count?

My car is green as well but the wrong sort of green. BRG as opposed to
mean green. :-)

--
Roger Chapman

"Sarah Brown" wrote in message
...
In article 483d43a6@qaanaaq, Andy Hall wrote:

This doesn't happen because the trip mechanism in the handle still
works. All petrol stations I have used in the U.S. have the latch
wires on the pump handles. I have never seen a flood of fuel.

I've encountered pumps where the cutoff doesn't work reliably (and got
a leg splashed in petrol as a result). Had these pumps been able to
run unattended, I'm not keen on the idea of what might have happened.

Andy doesn't use petrol pumps so he doesn't know they are the same in the UK
and he hasn't thought about what would happen if the nozzle fell out or if
someone tripped over it, etc.

In article , Mary Fisher wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message

http://www.lexus.co.uk/hybrid/index.aspx

I had a look, it's a very nice site. Couldn't see any estate versions
though, I've asked if there is one and if it can tow.

The Toyota Highlander is a 7 seater SUV with a hybrid option, so would have
more cargo space (with back seats taken out). It's a US model only though,
AFAIK, so you would have to pay to import it, and put up with left hand
drive or possibly pay to convert that too. And I don't know if anyone
does a plug-in conversion yet.

In message , at 13:12:05 on
Tue, 27 May 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
There may well come time however, when we see that any distance
over 100 miles is better served by driving to a rail depot, and
shifting a container n(or indeed the whole car, as is done with the
channel tunnel) onto a train, rather than driving it there.

Which is no doubt why MotoRail is a rapidly dying service.

is it?

It certainly was hugely more expensive than the ferrys last time I used
it. I was in a hurry and the hovercraft had vanished..

So I doubt its a technical things: simply the way its priced.

Motorail was always hugely loss-making, yet expensive. A rare lose/lose
situation! It just doesn't scale very well.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 28 May 2008, Roland Perry wrote:

Motorail was always hugely loss-making, yet expensive. A rare lose/lose
situation! It just doesn't scale very well.

Excellent to use though. I remember Motorail from our family holidays
about 30 years ago. We'd drive to London, park the Maxi in it's train
carriage, go to bed in the sleeper car and wake up the next morning in
Scotland. I can't think of a better way of doing it.

Naich.
--
http://naich.net ................... A blog - how 2006
http://www.veggiefoodguide.co.uk ... Eat some nice food
http://maggenhoof.co.uk/mortgage ... Dissect your mortgage
Motto: Whoever said money can't buy happiness doesn't know where to shop

"Mary Fisher" gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

We got rid of our second car some yers ago, replacing it with a 125cc
scooter. It's fine for local journeys and has at least a 100 mile range.
We don't need 70mph because we don't use it for that sort of journey -
why should we want to?

Maybe you aren't both going to the same place...?

Jon Green gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Hasn't diesel caused a huge soot problem? they emit a lot more
particulate matter?

Not these days. Perticulate emissions have been VERY tightly controlled
in the last couple of rounds of Euro emission standards.

Are buses still exempt?

No. If they ever were.

"Jon Green" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
This is another reason for the diesel and for using commecial pumps.
Apart from faster delivery, they have the little wire insert on the pump
handle which means that it's not necessary to hold the trigger.

I've often thought about putting a little (but sturdy) metal eye-pin on my
keyring, to replace the missing pin during fuelling. Never got a round
tuit, though. American pumps have them, so I don't really understand why
UK ones don't.

Forces you to use both hands so you can't light up a cigarette while
filling the car...?

"Alan Braggins" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary Fisher
wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message

http://www.lexus.co.uk/hybrid/index.aspx

I had a look, it's a very nice site. Couldn't see any estate versions
though, I've asked if there is one and if it can tow.

The Toyota Highlander is a 7 seater SUV with a hybrid option, so would
have
more cargo space (with back seats taken out). It's a US model only though,
AFAIK, so you would have to pay to import it, and put up with left hand
drive or possibly pay to convert that too. And I don't know if anyone
does a plug-in conversion yet.

Don't want an SUV, thanks, can't do with having to remove seats :-)

Certainly don't want LHD (thus opening a sub thread for all those folk who
claim it's safer G).

And pay extra for importing???

I'm a Yorkshireman!!!

I've been in touch with Lexus and have interesting information which we'll
consider. No rush though. Pre-owned (used to be called 2nd hand) are pretty
cheap.

Mary

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Wed, 28 May 2008 10:56:57 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

I find the hauliers demands yesterday of an "essential user" rebate
rather strange. To me an "essential user" would be the fire, ambulance
and police services and only those hauliers involved in the food and/or
fuel supply chain. Sorry but F.Bloggs Hauliers Ltd taking a pallet of
widgets from A to B is not an "essential user".

Until your widget supplier runs out when you need one desperately ...

But F.Blogs Hauliers Ltd is complaining that they will go out of business
with out government help. Well the answer is put your prices up. If it
cost X to transport that pallet of widgets from A to B that is the minimum
you should charge. It's called market forces and being in bussiness. It's
not as if Smiths Trucking down the road is getting fuel 20p/l cheaper than
J.Blogs Hauliers. We are all in the same boat. They wibble about
continental truckers coming over and doing the work on their cheap fuel,
er, once a forgien truck has done a few hundred miles it will need to fill
up at our prices...

Um, what's that to do with your point about being an essential user?

Red herring.

Mary

"Mark" wrote in message
...

Because it's safer keeping up with the prevailing speed of the
traffic.

Oh, I see!

Hmm.

"Alan Braggins" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary Fisher
wrote:
"Tim Ward" wrote in message
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
A scooter travelling well within any speed limit will arrive at a
destination sooner than legally driven cars most of the time.
If you live that long. I gave up driving a bike years ago, when just too
many people in cars had tried to kill me.
I said 'legally driven' ...

You said it would arrive sooner than legally driven cars, not that we
should assume the carelessly driven cars didn't also exist.

I don't understand your point. Don't boher about trying to explain, I shan't
bother to read any more.


They kill pedestrians and occupants of cars too.
I don't LIKE motor bikes of any kind but it seems that they're involved in
fewer accidents than cars, per capita.

But an impact that will write off a car and leave its occupants shaken
will kill a biker,

Not necessarily.

so it takes fewer accidents to kill them.

Not so.

(Pedestrians are just as vulnerable or more so, but less likely to be
sharing the road with the cars for long distances.)

Pedestrians shouldn't be sharing the road. Pedestrians should be on the
footpath.

But in many places pedestrians are forced into the road by selfish
motorists.

"Jon Green" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
Then there's the BSA ...

Oh, promise me that's an A65, still running and offered for sale... *grin*

I'd give it away. It's a Bantam.

... Sadly, I didn't hear it fire up - it was
gone before we were.

And you didn't hear it???

No, and we were right next to the window too (with the Trump parked up
near the delivery entrance). Mind you, modern Trumps are pretty quiet
until you open them up.

Yes, sorry I snipped you, I thought you were making a point about the loud
noise.

On 2008-05-28 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:

Once some idiot has flooded the forecourt with a few hundred liters of
fuel you will understand.

How often does that happen in the US, then?


It doesn't matter, it can, but not if they have to hold the handle.



This doesn't happen because the trip mechanism in the handle still
works. All petrol stations I have used in the U.S. have the latch wires
on the pump handles. I have never seen a flood of fuel.



So we are to assume you spend 24 hrs a day watching petrol stations
looking for fuel spills?

Never assume anything. Very dangerous.

I have never seen a plane crash, or a train crash but they happen.

I've seen both.

I bet you haven't seen one either so are you are going to say they
don't happen either?
People that stupidly state "I have never seen one" and expect anyone to
take any notice are, well, being stupid.

There is nothing incorrect about saying that I have not seen a fuel
spill because of the latching mechanism being in use.

I am not disputing that this *can* happen, but certainly that it is a
big problem as you are implying.

If you think about it, if it *were* a big problem, then either the
handles would have been redesigned or the mechanisms set as they are
here.

Since most other countries have the latch wires in the pump handles, it
rather suggests that this does not cause an issue for any meaningful
amount of measurement.

On 2008-05-28 13:26:23 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:483d4317@qaanaaq...
On 2008-05-28 10:23:25 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Jon Green" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
This is another reason for the diesel and for using commecial pumps.
Apart from faster delivery, they have the little wire insert on the
pump handle which means that it's not necessary to hold the trigger.

I've often thought about putting a little (but sturdy) metal eye-pin on
my keyring, to replace the missing pin during fuelling. Never got a
round tuit, though. American pumps have them, so I don't really
understand why UK ones don't.

Once some idiot has flooded the forecourt with a few hundred liters of
fuel you will understand.



That's nonsense. The full tank trip mechanism still works even with
the latch wire in place.



That's nonsense as there are other failure modes than a tank overflowing.



There probably are. Some people smoke on petrol station forecourts.
Some people smoke, period.

If there were a major issue with fuel spillage; in most U.S. states
where there is paranoia about the carcinogenic effects of petrol vapour
to the point that there is vapour recovery, these mechanisms would have
been taken out of service.

In other words, you are describing a non-issue for all statistically
significant values of measurement of issues.

On 2008-05-28 12:59:31 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:483d4485@qaanaaq...
On 2008-05-28 10:24:03 +0100, Huge said:

On 2008-05-28, Jon Green wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
This is another reason for the diesel and for using commecial pumps.
Apart from faster delivery, they have the little wire insert on the
pump handle which means that it's not necessary to hold the trigger.

I've often thought about putting a little (but sturdy) metal eye-pin on
my keyring, to replace the missing pin during fuelling. Never got a
round tuit, though. American pumps have them, so I don't really
understand why UK ones don't.

Elfin Saftey fascists, I expect.

Ironically the U.S. arrangement is probably safer. The pump is
tripped off when the tank is full and it is virtually impossible to top
off the tank and spill fuel.

So are UK ones, ask your chauffer.


Chauffeur



They even have vapour extraction around the nozzle in the form of a
flexible concertina plastic thingy

That is too meet the total emissions requirement for the cars.
If you suck the vapour back into the tank it allows you more kerbside
emissions when driving.

.... to meet ...

On Wed, 28 May 2008 10:38:03 +0100 Jon Green wrote :
Once some idiot has flooded the forecourt with a few hundred liters
of fuel you will understand.

How often does that happen in the US, then?

The only time I used an US filling station was with a hire car: I stood
there like an idiot unable to fathom out how to work the pump. IIRC
there was some form of screw attachment of the hose to the filler cap
to stop petrol fumes escaping ... which in the Arizona heat was
probably prudent.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On Wed, 28 May 2008 09:46:29 +0100 (BST) Dave Liquorice wrote :
I find the hauliers demands yesterday of an "essential user" rebate rather
strange. To me an "essential user" would be the fire, ambulance and police
services and only those hauliers involved in the food and/or fuel supply
chain. Sorry but F.Bloggs Hauliers Ltd taking a pallet of widgets from A
to B is not an "essential user".

News reports also said that Eddie Stobart and others have a fuel price
clause in their contracts so far from being hit will gain as less business
savvy hauliers go out of business. At one level I have a certain sympathy
with the small guys, equally planning for contingencies is a part of
business and if you don't, you shouldn't complain if they happen.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On Wed, 28 May 2008 12:40:51 GMT, Sarah Brown wrote:

This doesn't happen because the trip mechanism in the handle still
works. All petrol stations I have used in the U.S. have the latch
wires on the pump handles. I have never seen a flood of fuel.

I've encountered pumps where the cutoff doesn't work reliably (and got
a leg splashed in petrol as a result).

One of my old cars would "blow back" when filling with 100% repeatabilty
unless you with drew the pump nozzle an inch or so from fully inserted. I
the slight out position the cut off would work 100% of the time and no
spillage...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 28 May 2008 13:51:13 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

thought about what would happen if the nozzle fell out or if someone
tripped over it, etc.

Valid points but common sense says... ah I see the problem due to the
nanny state most of the Great British Public and 4/5ths of bugger all
common sense.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 28 May 2008 15:18:44 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

They wibble about continental truckers coming over and doing the work
on their cheap fuel, er, once a forgien truck has done a few hundred
miles it will need to fill up at our prices...

Um, what's that to do with your point about being an essential user?

That F.Blogs Haulier Ltd or Smiths Trucking are not using safe arguments
to pitch their case for "essential user" status. They are a business just
like any other. As someone else said, if they haven't got fuel clauses in
their long term contracts or are so inflexable in job costings that actual
fuel prices aren't taken into account more fool them.

It doesn't take a genius to use a calculator or plug numbers into a spread
sheet to come out with a job cost. Lets see, average MPG of the truck,
cost of fuel/litre, total round trip distance. A few other factors are
also needed like depreciation on the truck and recovery of its capital
cost, also drivers hours and pay (will it take more than a day? so
overnight costs for driver and/or truck).

--
Cheers
Dave.