IMO, it's got to be "DIY Disasters". What a joke - they ought to
rename it "DIY DORKS!" ...A bunch of idiots goofing off, imagining
themselves to be amusing. Hardly ever any useful DIY tips to be
gained. I stayed tuned for a full one minute today, as I was hoping to
study the technique of a guy skimming a wall, but the the camera never
remained on him for more than a fraction of a second. Typical! So as
usual I changed channels in disgust, and watched something half-way
useful, like 'Holmes on Homes' (despite being a Canadian show) or
Tommy Walsh's latest offering. I've always thought of TW as a bit of a
cowboy, but at least the show delivers on tips and advice, and there's
a good balance of humour mixed in. Just MHO!

Rick J H

"Rick J H" wrote in message
...

IMO, it's got to be "DIY Disasters". What a joke - they ought to
rename it "DIY DORKS!" ...A bunch of idiots goofing off, imagining
themselves to be amusing. Hardly ever any useful DIY tips to be
gained. I stayed tuned for a full one minute today, as I was hoping to
study the technique of a guy skimming a wall, but the the camera never
remained on him for more than a fraction of a second. Typical! So as
usual I changed channels in disgust, and watched something half-way
useful, like 'Holmes on Homes' (despite being a Canadian show) or
Tommy Walsh's latest offering. I've always thought of TW as a bit of a
cowboy, but at least the show delivers on tips and advice, and there's
a good balance of humour mixed in. Just MHO!

Rick J H

Is that New Whatsit Workshop still on?
That guy has a machine-tool for everything.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"Graham" wrote in message
Is that New Whatsit Workshop still on?
That guy has a machine-tool for everything.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%



That'll be MrRumm then.

ps your clock time is 1 hour fast

ps your clock time is 1 hour fast




Forget that its not. :-)

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:30:16 +0100, "Graham" wrote:

Is that New Whatsit Workshop still on?
That guy has a machine-tool for everything.

Yes, I do watch that one, but not everyone can afford half a million
£££ worth of machine tools!

I saw a British carpentry show the other day (a new one, and I can't
remember the name). The guy on that one was making things with the
most basic and old-fasioned tools. So that was more useful for
ordinary DIY-ers like me...

I forgot... one show that I do find useful is Dave Wellman's "New Home
DIY". No humour whatsoever; just good, informative house repair and
renovation DIY.

Rick

On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:30:16 +0100, "Graham" wrote:

Is that New Whatsit Workshop still on?
That guy has a machine-tool for everything.

Yes, I do watch that one, but not everyone can afford half a million
£££ worth of machine tools!

Actually it's not. The whole lot is supplied by the manufacturers and
the workshop belongs to the producer.

Even then, at U.S. prices, I would estimate that there is about $100k
worth of machinery in there, possibly $150k. At today's exchange rate
an order of magnitude less than half a million pounds.

To be fair, few of the projects *require* more than basic woodworking
shop equipment such as a table saw, planer, thicknesser and bandsaw
plus hand power tools. Projects can be completed without wide belt
sanders.


I saw a British carpentry show the other day (a new one, and I can't
remember the name). The guy on that one was making things with the
most basic and old-fasioned tools. So that was more useful for
ordinary DIY-ers like me...

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?


I forgot... one show that I do find useful is Dave Wellman's "New Home
DIY". No humour whatsoever; just good, informative house repair and
renovation DIY.


Haven't seen that one.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:30:16 +0100, "Graham" wrote:

Is that New Whatsit Workshop still on?
That guy has a machine-tool for everything.

Yes, I do watch that one, but not everyone can afford half a million
£££ worth of machine tools!

Actually it's not. The whole lot is supplied by the manufacturers and
the workshop belongs to the producer.

Even then, at U.S. prices, I would estimate that there is about $100k
worth of machinery in there, possibly $150k. At today's exchange rate
an order of magnitude less than half a million pounds.

To be fair, few of the projects *require* more than basic woodworking
shop equipment such as a table saw, planer, thicknesser and bandsaw plus
hand power tools. Projects can be completed without wide belt sanders.


I saw a British carpentry show the other day (a new one, and I can't
remember the name). The guy on that one was making things with the
most basic and old-fasioned tools. So that was more useful for
ordinary DIY-ers like me...

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector


I forgot... one show that I do find useful is Dave Wellman's "New Home
DIY". No humour whatsoever; just good, informative house repair and
renovation DIY.


Haven't seen that one.

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector

Does such a DIY person exist?

Given that it's almost impossible to do any DIY without a tool of some
sort, the question is where to stop. In my case, that point doesn't
seem to exist, just the space to keep them all.

John, (a tool junkie)

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

snip

I forgot... one show that I do find useful is Dave Wellman's "New
Home
DIY". No humour whatsoever; just good, informative house repair and
renovation DIY.


Haven't seen that one.


Caught a couple of episodes the other day (kitchen and bedroom refits
IIRC). IMO - if you want BASIC information it's probably OK but if
you're looking for anything more, forget it. Perhaps it was just those
two programmes but the host seemed to be attempting to educate total
numb-sculls...

On 2007-07-10 11:44:08 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:



I saw a British carpentry show the other day (a new one, and I can't
remember the name). The guy on that one was making things with the
most basic and old-fasioned tools. So that was more useful for
ordinary DIY-ers like me...

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector

Wrong. You are making the mistake of assuming that choice of tool is
defined by whether the job is a DIY or carried out by a professional.
A common mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

There is no such correlation.

I wouldn't describe any power tools as collector's items. They are too
cold for that. It becomes a matter of suitability for the quality of
work required, the outcome, ease of use and service offering.

I would confess to being a tool collector in the realm of hand tools
such as chisels, gouges, spokeshaves and planes. On these it is
worth lavishing care and attention because it is reflected in the use
and the outcome. With power tools, precision, ergonomics and
excellent service should be part of the package

On 2007-07-10 11:59:08 +0100, John said:

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector

Does such a DIY person exist?

No of course not. It's just a stereotype beloved by marketeers in
cheap supermarkets, TV producers and botchers.


Given that it's almost impossible to do any DIY without a tool of some
sort, the question is where to stop. In my case, that point doesn't
seem to exist, just the space to keep them all.


It's a matter of selection. Buy good quality in the first place and
the issue of storing junk that one can't bear to part with becomes
irrelevant.

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

snip

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector

Perhaps that should be - "Someone who isn't a *power* tool collector"

I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

These days most seem to consider having power tools is a pre-requisite
to doing any DIY! :~(

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:44:08 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:



I saw a British carpentry show the other day (a new one, and I can't
remember the name). The guy on that one was making things with the
most basic and old-fasioned tools. So that was more useful for
ordinary DIY-ers like me...

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector

Wrong. You are making the mistake of assuming that choice of tool is
defined by whether the job is a DIY or carried out by a professional. A
common mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

Yes, headmaster. So reassuring to know my mistake was of the more common
type. Perhaps you should compile a frequently made mistakes document to
accompany the gospel you preach.

There is no such correlation.


I wouldn't describe any power tools as collector's items. They are too
cold for that. It becomes a matter of suitability for the quality of
work required, the outcome, ease of use and service offering.

I would confess to being a tool collector in the realm of hand tools
such as chisels, gouges, spokeshaves and planes. On these it is worth
lavishing care and attention because it is reflected in the use and the
outcome. With power tools, precision, ergonomics and excellent service
should be part of the package

You buy all the tools you want mate. they can't touch you for it

On 2007-07-10 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

snip

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector

Perhaps that should be - "Someone who isn't a *power* tool collector"

Even that's not a good way to define it.

Really the only viable description of "DIY" is that the person does the
work themselves as opposed to employing someone to do it.

The choice of the means to do so and the type of tools used has zero to
do with that.

OTOH, if (and only if) the motivation is to reduce the cost, then this
*may* have an influence on choice of tools.

The concept of "DIY tools" is therefore a nonsense and is only for the
convenience of merchandisers in supermarkets.



I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

These days most seem to consider having power tools is a pre-requisite
to doing any DIY! :~(

Clearly that isn't true either.

The DIY supermarkets have (cynically) decided on prices that the market
will bear and useless trinkets (laser sights) that will attract the
punters and have sourced and priced junk power tool products to address
that market.

This is what leads to the confusion as to what constitutes DIY and
tools to execute DIY work.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:"
wrote:


I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

Like the one at the bottom of this page...

http://tinyurl.com/yrpaz9

--
Frank Erskine

On 2007-07-10 12:28:08 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:44:08 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:



I saw a British carpentry show the other day (a new one, and I can't
remember the name). The guy on that one was making things with the
most basic and old-fasioned tools. So that was more useful for
ordinary DIY-ers like me...

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector

Wrong. You are making the mistake of assuming that choice of tool is
defined by whether the job is a DIY or carried out by a professional.
A common mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

Yes, headmaster.

Glib response to glib remark.

So reassuring to know my mistake was of the more common type.

We aim to please.

Perhaps you should compile a frequently made mistakes document to
accompany the gospel you preach.

No need really. A small tract would suffice.




There is no such correlation.


I wouldn't describe any power tools as collector's items. They are too
cold for that. It becomes a matter of suitability for the quality of
work required, the outcome, ease of use and service offering.

I would confess to being a tool collector in the realm of hand tools
such as chisels, gouges, spokeshaves and planes. On these it is
worth lavishing care and attention because it is reflected in the use
and the outcome. With power tools, precision, ergonomics and
excellent service should be part of the package

You buy all the tools you want mate. they can't touch you for it

You'd be surprised.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

snip

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector

Perhaps that should be - "Someone who isn't a *power* tool collector"

Even that's not a good way to define it.

Really the only viable description of "DIY" is that the person does the
work themselves as opposed to employing someone to do it.

The choice of the means to do so and the type of tools used has zero to
do with that.

OTOH, if (and only if) the motivation is to reduce the cost, then this
*may* have an influence on choice of tools.

The concept of "DIY tools" is therefore a nonsense and is only for the
convenience of merchandisers in supermarkets.



I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

These days most seem to consider having power tools is a pre-requisite
to doing any DIY! :~(

Clearly that isn't true either.

The DIY supermarkets have (cynically) decided on prices that the market
will bear and useless trinkets (laser sights) that will attract the
punters and have sourced and priced junk power tool products to address
that market.

This is what leads to the confusion as to what constitutes DIY and tools
to execute DIY work.



I guess a proper DIY person is someone who has done more jobs than the
number of tools he owns..

On 2007-07-10 12:37:06 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:"
wrote:


I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

Like the one at the bottom of this page...

http://tinyurl.com/yrpaz9

I've got one of those, and a packet of that very suspicious stuff that
looks like asbestos and cement that you bung in the hole

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-10 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip

These days most seem to consider having power tools is a
pre-requisite
to doing any DIY! :~(

Clearly that isn't true either.

The DIY supermarkets have (cynically) decided on prices that the
market will bear and useless trinkets (laser sights) that will
attract the punters and have sourced and priced junk power tool
products to address that market.

This is what leads to the confusion as to what constitutes DIY and
tools to execute DIY work.


I don't blame the sheds at all [1], what I do blame are the 'Makeover'
(how I detest that word) type programmes - as long as you have to
*power tools* you can do the job, never mind needing skill, the *power
tools* will take car of things...

An ordinary DIYer will be able to do the work with manual tools, he or
she will use power tools only to speed the work along, they will not
be reliant on the tool cutting a straight line for example. What non
of these 'Makeover' (and many of the more detailed DIY) programmes
mention is that the only reason the presenter/trader was using power
tools was to speed things along.

[1] can't blame them for cashing in on peoples ignorance!

On 2007-07-10 12:48:09 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


I don't blame the sheds at all [1], what I do blame are the 'Makeover'
(how I detest that word) type programmes - as long as you have to
*power tools* you can do the job, never mind needing skill, the *power
tools* will take car of things...

Yes I agree. The shows are the mouthpiece and the stores are
fulfillers of demand.




An ordinary DIYer will be able to do the work with manual tools, he or
she will use power tools only to speed the work along, they will not
be reliant on the tool cutting a straight line for example. What non
of these 'Makeover' (and many of the more detailed DIY) programmes
mention is that the only reason the presenter/trader was using power
tools was to speed things along.

I don't entirely agree. TV shows have had techniques for speeding
things along ever since the advent of the Devil's Window. Valerie
Singleton's classic line with sticky backed plastic was "here's one I
did earlier". They don't need power tools for that.




[1] can't blame them for cashing in on peoples ignorance!

Not in the least.

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:"
wrote:


I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40
years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

Like the one at the bottom of this page...

http://tinyurl.com/yrpaz9


Well the part that bore the blow of the hammer probably took the same
'bits' that the above tool did...!

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:45:04 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-07-10 12:37:06 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:"
wrote:


I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

Like the one at the bottom of this page...

http://tinyurl.com/yrpaz9

I've got one of those, and a packet of that very suspicious stuff that
looks like asbestos and cement that you bung in the hole

Philplug (sp?) ?

--
Frank Erskine

On 2007-07-10 12:55:56 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:45:04 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-07-10 12:37:06 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:"
wrote:


I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

Like the one at the bottom of this page...

http://tinyurl.com/yrpaz9

I've got one of those, and a packet of that very suspicious stuff that
looks like asbestos and cement that you bung in the hole

Philplug (sp?) ?

it was called Rawlplastic.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

snip

What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

Someone who isn't a tool collector

Perhaps that should be - "Someone who isn't a *power* tool collector"

Even that's not a good way to define it.

Really the only viable description of "DIY" is that the person does
the work themselves as opposed to employing someone to do it.

The choice of the means to do so and the type of tools used has zero
to do with that.

OTOH, if (and only if) the motivation is to reduce the cost, then this
*may* have an influence on choice of tools.

The concept of "DIY tools" is therefore a nonsense and is only for the
convenience of merchandisers in supermarkets.



I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

These days most seem to consider having power tools is a pre-requisite
to doing any DIY! :~(

Clearly that isn't true either.

The DIY supermarkets have (cynically) decided on prices that the
market will bear and useless trinkets (laser sights) that will attract
the punters and have sourced and priced junk power tool products to
address that market.

This is what leads to the confusion as to what constitutes DIY and
tools to execute DIY work.



I guess a proper DIY person is someone who has done more jobs than the
number of tools he owns..

Glib remark resisted

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 12:48:09 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


I don't blame the sheds at all [1], what I do blame are the 'Makeover'
(how I detest that word) type programmes - as long as you have to
*power tools* you can do the job, never mind needing skill, the *power
tools* will take car of things...

Yes I agree. The shows are the mouthpiece and the stores are
fulfillers of demand.




An ordinary DIYer will be able to do the work with manual tools, he or
she will use power tools only to speed the work along, they will not
be reliant on the tool cutting a straight line for example. What non
of these 'Makeover' (and many of the more detailed DIY) programmes
mention is that the only reason the presenter/trader was using power
tools was to speed things along.

I don't entirely agree. TV shows have had techniques for speeding
things along ever since the advent of the Devil's Window. Valerie
Singleton's classic line with sticky backed plastic was "here's one I
did earlier". They don't need power tools for that.




[1] can't blame them for cashing in on peoples ignorance!

Not in the least.


Cashing in is never a bad thing

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
snip

I guess a proper DIY person is someone who has done more jobs than
the number of tools he owns..

Glib remark resisted

Well that rules out Norm Abraham then!

":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-10 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:

snip

These days most seem to consider having power tools is a pre-requisite
to doing any DIY! :~(

Clearly that isn't true either.

The DIY supermarkets have (cynically) decided on prices that the market
will bear and useless trinkets (laser sights) that will attract the
punters and have sourced and priced junk power tool products to address
that market.

This is what leads to the confusion as to what constitutes DIY and tools
to execute DIY work.


I don't blame the sheds at all [1], what I do blame are the 'Makeover'
(how I detest that word) type programmes - as long as you have to *power
tools* you can do the job, never mind needing skill, the *power tools*
will take car of things...

Especially if it's a Makita with full technical support and spares on the
shelf and a free support tel No. Boy will the holes be round.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:09:16 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-07-10 12:55:56 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:45:04 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-07-10 12:37:06 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:"
wrote:


I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

Like the one at the bottom of this page...

http://tinyurl.com/yrpaz9

I've got one of those, and a packet of that very suspicious stuff that
looks like asbestos and cement that you bung in the hole

Philplug (sp?) ?

it was called Rawlplastic.

Yes - that was a different brand of the same stuff.

Each tin came with a little L-shaped ramrod with a point at one end to
"start" the screw.

--
Frank Erskine

:Jerry: wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

snip
I forgot... one show that I do find useful is Dave Wellman's "New
Home
DIY". No humour whatsoever; just good, informative house repair and
renovation DIY.

Haven't seen that one.


Caught a couple of episodes the other day (kitchen and bedroom refits
IIRC). IMO - if you want BASIC information it's probably OK but if
you're looking for anything more, forget it. Perhaps it was just those
two programmes but the host seemed to be attempting to educate total
numb-sculls...


1) Bring back Barry Bucknall
2) there was a programme about a couple renovating a very old fortified
farm in Northumberland. They did it all without power tools, and had to
bring all materials about 1 mile up a track in and old utility truck.
The "tiles" they put on the roof were heavier and bigger than most patio
slabs. They had my admiration!

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 12:55:56 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:45:04 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-07-10 12:37:06 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:14:29 +0100, ":Jerry:"
wrote:


I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

Like the one at the bottom of this page...

http://tinyurl.com/yrpaz9

I've got one of those, and a packet of that very suspicious stuff that
looks like asbestos and cement that you bung in the hole

Philplug (sp?) ?

it was called Rawlplastic.


Brilliant stuff.
Used it for years. Ought to be ten times dead by now.

On 2007-07-10 14:49:11 +0100, Broadback said:

:Jerry: wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

snip
I forgot... one show that I do find useful is Dave Wellman's "New Home
DIY". No humour whatsoever; just good, informative house repair and
renovation DIY.

Haven't seen that one.


Caught a couple of episodes the other day (kitchen and bedroom refits
IIRC). IMO - if you want BASIC information it's probably OK but if
you're looking for anything more, forget it. Perhaps it was just those
two programmes but the host seemed to be attempting to educate total
numb-sculls...

1) Bring back Barry Bucknall

Let's not go too far, He was the culprit behind paneling doors in hardboard.


2) there was a programme about a couple renovating a very old fortified
farm in Northumberland. They did it all without power tools, and had to
bring all materials about 1 mile up a track in and old utility truck.
The "tiles" they put on the roof were heavier and bigger than most
patio slabs. They had my admiration!

Yes but it was the north east. They do that kind of heavy manual
labour there - coal mining and such like.

:Jerry: wrote:

Perhaps that should be - "Someone who isn't a *power* tool collector"

I can still remember when my father bought his first power tool, a
basic B&D corded electric drill, this would have been around 40 years
ago - up until then he used either a bevel geared drill, a bit and
brace or - for masonry - a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

Rawl tool?

These days most seem to consider having power tools is a pre-requisite
to doing any DIY! :~(

I am far to lazy to contemplate 20 holes in concrete with a rawl tool
though! ;-) There are plenty of other jobs I would not entertain doing
without an appropriate power tool.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 14:49:11 +0100, Broadback said:

:Jerry: wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

snip
I forgot... one show that I do find useful is Dave Wellman's "New Home
DIY". No humour whatsoever; just good, informative house repair and
renovation DIY.

Haven't seen that one.


Caught a couple of episodes the other day (kitchen and bedroom refits
IIRC). IMO - if you want BASIC information it's probably OK but if
you're looking for anything more, forget it. Perhaps it was just
those two programmes but the host seemed to be attempting to educate
total numb-sculls...

1) Bring back Barry Bucknall

Let's not go too far, He was the culprit behind paneling doors in
hardboard.


2) there was a programme about a couple renovating a very old
fortified farm in Northumberland. They did it all without power tools,
and had to bring all materials about 1 mile up a track in and old
utility truck. The "tiles" they put on the roof were heavier and
bigger than most patio slabs. They had my admiration!

Yes but it was the north east. They do that kind of heavy manual
labour there - coal mining and such like.


Sounds like you live South of the Watford Gap Andy!

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-10 14:49:11 +0100, Broadback said:

snip

2) there was a programme about a couple renovating a very old
fortified farm in Northumberland. They did it all without power
tools, and had to bring all materials about 1 mile up a track in
and old utility truck. The "tiles" they put on the roof were
heavier and bigger than most patio slabs. They had my admiration!

Yes but it was the north east. They do that kind of heavy manual
labour there - coal mining and such like.


You mean, up north they're not shy of hard graft...

On 2007-07-10 16:46:53 +0100, Broadback said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-10 14:49:11 +0100, Broadback said:

:Jerry: wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-10 11:24:54 +0100, Rick J H said:

snip
I forgot... one show that I do find useful is Dave Wellman's "New Home
DIY". No humour whatsoever; just good, informative house repair and
renovation DIY.

Haven't seen that one.


Caught a couple of episodes the other day (kitchen and bedroom refits
IIRC). IMO - if you want BASIC information it's probably OK but if
you're looking for anything more, forget it. Perhaps it was just those
two programmes but the host seemed to be attempting to educate total
numb-sculls...

1) Bring back Barry Bucknall

Let's not go too far, He was the culprit behind paneling doors in hardboard.


2) there was a programme about a couple renovating a very old fortified
farm in Northumberland. They did it all without power tools, and had to
bring all materials about 1 mile up a track in and old utility truck.
The "tiles" they put on the roof were heavier and bigger than most
patio slabs. They had my admiration!

Yes but it was the north east. They do that kind of heavy manual
labour there - coal mining and such like.


Sounds like you live South of the Watford Gap Andy!

Oh certainly. However, there seems to be a debate about whether this
is a cutting on the East Coast line or a service station on the M1.

On 2007-07-10 16:55:36 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-10 14:49:11 +0100, Broadback said:

snip

2) there was a programme about a couple renovating a very old
fortified farm in Northumberland. They did it all without power
tools, and had to bring all materials about 1 mile up a track in
and old utility truck. The "tiles" they put on the roof were
heavier and bigger than most patio slabs. They had my admiration!

Yes but it was the north east. They do that kind of heavy manual
labour there - coal mining and such like.


You mean, up north they're not shy of hard graft...

Different form of hard graft.

As my great grandmother used to say of people who didn't do manual
jobs.... "He works with his head".

On 2007-07-10 13:12:10 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
Yes, I do watch that one, but not everyone can afford half a million
£££ worth of machine tools!
Actually it's not. The whole lot is supplied by the manufacturers and
the workshop belongs to the producer.
Even then, at U.S. prices, I would estimate that there is about $100k
worth of machinery in there, possibly $150k. At today's exchange rate
an order of magnitude less than half a million pounds.

So say £75,000. It might as well be half a million. If I could afford
£75,000 I could buy a house with that.

Everything is relative. As I said, there are one or two very
expensive machines such as the wide belt sander. If one takes that out
as well as the multiples of some machines such as the lathes, then the
equipment used in most projects would come to about $25000 - $35000 or
£15-20k


What's "an ordinary DIYer"?

The sort of people who shop at Aldi and Lidl to save a few pennies each
week to put in the "new toy" jamjar.


I'm not sure that that is "ordinary" though. By market share and
number of stores, ordinary would imply Tesco, or measured by regional
average salary and some amount of disposable income. Lidldi is too
small to have a numerous enough customer base that would merit the term
ordinary (in the sense of an average.

":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...

An ordinary DIYer will be able to do the work with manual tools, he or she
will use power tools only to speed the work along, they will not be
reliant on the tool cutting a straight line for example. What non of these
'Makeover' (and many of the more detailed DIY) programmes mention is that
the only reason the presenter/trader was using power tools was to speed
things along.

I disagree.. I make far less mistakes and get better results using power
tools even the really cheap ones from Aldi.
I use my £30 table saw a lot as I just can't get a straight cut with a hand
saw.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
:Jerry: wrote:
... What non of these 'Makeover' (and many of the more detailed
DIY) programmes mention is that the only reason the
presenter/trader was using power tools was to speed things along.

No, the reason is that all the real work is done by experienced
tradesmen behind the scenes, who don't believe in making life hard
for themselves.


Yes indeed, we know that, the traders and production company know
that, but no one is telling the couch potatoes on the other side of
the glass - hence they think that as long as they have a cordless
drill to screw the screws in and a 'skil' saw to cut the MDF....

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember ":Jerry:"
saying something like:

a hammer and raw plug 'chisel' (can't think
of the correct name).

A Rawl Bit.
--

Dave