I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve undercutting 8
door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I have,
but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of cutting to
do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw, the task took a
long time, and caused significant subsequent back pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but most of
the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I can see) - e.g.
'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power hand saw'. I did find
one item http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my needs.
I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw
http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't find it on
a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:
http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...7&prod_id=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

--

John

"John E" wrote in message
...
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve undercutting 8
door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I have,
but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of cutting to
do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw, the task took a
long time, and caused significant subsequent back pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but most of
the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I can see) - e.g.
'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power hand saw'. I did find
one item http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist)
but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my
needs.
I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw

http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...r_Handsaw_Mode
l_1640VS/display_~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't find it
on
a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:

http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...4EC3FE1965DCDE
E964514E3903F2F91A?division=hw&ccat_id=9647&prod_i d=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

--

John



How thick is the flooring? I laid some flooring just before Xmas and was
faced with the same situation but quick thinking I came up with the
solution.

As this was HW flooring its thickness just came to the height of the top of
blade in my biscuit jointer which couldn't have been more perfect.
I just used the biscuit jointer to cut out all the bottom section of the
door architraves.

Perfect!

George wrote:
"John E" wrote in message
...
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the
job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I
have, but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of
cutting to do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw,
the task took a long time, and caused significant subsequent back
pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but
most of the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I
can see) - e.g. 'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power
hand saw'. I did find one item
http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my
needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw

http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...r_Handsaw_Mode
l_1640VS/display_~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't
find it on a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:

http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...4EC3FE1965DCDE
E964514E3903F2F91A?division=hw&ccat_id=9647&prod_i d=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

--

John



How thick is the flooring? I laid some flooring just before Xmas and
was faced with the same situation but quick thinking I came up with
the solution.

As this was HW flooring its thickness just came to the height of the
top of blade in my biscuit jointer which couldn't have been more
perfect.
I just used the biscuit jointer to cut out all the bottom section of
the door architraves.

Perfect!

Thanks. The flooring is 15mm to which the underlay (about 3-4mm) needs to be
added. So your suggestion would seem to fit the bill. (And a lot cheaper
than £400!).

"John E" wrote in message
...
George wrote:
"John E" wrote in message
...
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the
job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I
have, but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of
cutting to do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw,
the task took a long time, and caused significant subsequent back
pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but
most of the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I
can see) - e.g. 'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power
hand saw'. I did find one item
http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my
needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw


http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...r_Handsaw_Mode
l_1640VS/display_~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't
find it on a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:


http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...4EC3FE1965DCDE
E964514E3903F2F91A?division=hw&ccat_id=9647&prod_i d=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

--

John



How thick is the flooring? I laid some flooring just before Xmas and
was faced with the same situation but quick thinking I came up with
the solution.

As this was HW flooring its thickness just came to the height of the
top of blade in my biscuit jointer which couldn't have been more
perfect.
I just used the biscuit jointer to cut out all the bottom section of
the door architraves.

Perfect!

Thanks. The flooring is 15mm to which the underlay (about 3-4mm) needs to
be
added. So your suggestion would seem to fit the bill. (And a lot cheaper
than £400!).




If the blade is not high enough alls you do is put a shim of some sort
underneath the shoe(base)to higher the cut.

The only thing you have to watch is make sure the end of the blade does not
cut the skirting if in situ? and set the depth of cut to architrave
thickness.

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:28:49 GMT, "John E"
wrote:

George wrote:
"John E" wrote in message
...
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the
job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I
have, but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of
cutting to do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw,
the task took a long time, and caused significant subsequent back
pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but
most of the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I
can see) - e.g. 'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power
hand saw'. I did find one item
http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my
needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw

http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...r_Handsaw_Mode
l_1640VS/display_~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't
find it on a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:

http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...4EC3FE1965DCDE
E964514E3903F2F91A?division=hw&ccat_id=9647&prod_i d=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

--

John



How thick is the flooring? I laid some flooring just before Xmas and
was faced with the same situation but quick thinking I came up with
the solution.

As this was HW flooring its thickness just came to the height of the
top of blade in my biscuit jointer which couldn't have been more
perfect.
I just used the biscuit jointer to cut out all the bottom section of
the door architraves.

Perfect!

Thanks. The flooring is 15mm to which the underlay (about 3-4mm) needs to be
added. So your suggestion would seem to fit the bill. (And a lot cheaper
than £400!).


Possibly a multiangle bit MAB - supposed to be able to cut slots with
them.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...37729&ts=60805
Robert

George wrote:
"John E" wrote in message
...
George wrote:
"John E" wrote in message
...
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the
job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I
have, but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot
of cutting to do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand
saw, the task took a long time, and caused significant subsequent
back pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but
most of the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I
can see) - e.g. 'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power
hand saw'. I did find one item
http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for
my needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand
saw


http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...r_Handsaw_Mode
l_1640VS/display_~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't
find it on a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:


http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...4EC3FE1965DCDE
E964514E3903F2F91A?division=hw&ccat_id=9647&prod_i d=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

--

John



How thick is the flooring? I laid some flooring just before Xmas and
was faced with the same situation but quick thinking I came up with
the solution.

As this was HW flooring its thickness just came to the height of the
top of blade in my biscuit jointer which couldn't have been more
perfect.
I just used the biscuit jointer to cut out all the bottom section of
the door architraves.

Perfect!

Thanks. The flooring is 15mm to which the underlay (about 3-4mm)
needs to be added. So your suggestion would seem to fit the bill.
(And a lot cheaper than £400!).




If the blade is not high enough alls you do is put a shim of some sort
underneath the shoe(base)to higher the cut.

The only thing you have to watch is make sure the end of the blade
does not cut the skirting if in situ? and set the depth of cut to
architrave thickness.

Yes, I have seen one on the web which will easily do the necessary height
from the floor. The skirting will have been removed anyway before laying the
floor.

Thanks for your help.

John

lid wrote:
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:28:49 GMT, "John E"
wrote:

George wrote:
"John E" wrote in message
...
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the
job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I
have, but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot
of cutting to do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand
saw, the task took a long time, and caused significant subsequent
back pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but
most of the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I
can see) - e.g. 'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power
hand saw'. I did find one item
http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for
my needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand
saw

http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...r_Handsaw_Mode
l_1640VS/display_~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't
find it on a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:

http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...4EC3FE1965DCDE
E964514E3903F2F91A?division=hw&ccat_id=9647&prod_i d=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

--

John



How thick is the flooring? I laid some flooring just before Xmas and
was faced with the same situation but quick thinking I came up with
the solution.

As this was HW flooring its thickness just came to the height of the
top of blade in my biscuit jointer which couldn't have been more
perfect.
I just used the biscuit jointer to cut out all the bottom section of
the door architraves.

Perfect!

Thanks. The flooring is 15mm to which the underlay (about 3-4mm)
needs to be added. So your suggestion would seem to fit the bill.
(And a lot cheaper than £400!).


Possibly a multiangle bit MAB - supposed to be able to cut slots with
them.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...37729&ts=60805
Robert

Thanks. I'm a bit doubtful that this would work because of the thickness of
the drill body. At least, I'm doubtful that I would be competent enough to
make it work!

"John E" wrote in message

Yes, I have seen one on the web which will easily do the necessary height
from the floor. The skirting will have been removed anyway before laying
the
floor.

Thanks for your help.

John


You're welcome.

Keep an eye out for the nail at that level you're working to. :-(

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:49:52 GMT, "John E"
wrote:

I've got a whole lot of flush fire doors that I intend to trim to size
to replace my existing ones. I have purchased an Einhell circular saw
for the purpose, which cost me £56.94 from DIYtools.co.uk. The Bosch
thing you show is really not the tool for the job. I would certainly
take the door off to do it as well.

Maris

I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve undercutting 8
door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I have,
but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of cutting to
do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw, the task took a
long time, and caused significant subsequent back pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but most of
the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I can see) - e.g.
'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power hand saw'. I did find
one item http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my needs.
I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw
http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't find it on
a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:
http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...7&prod_id=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John E wrote:

I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I
have, but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of
cutting to do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw,
the task took a long time, and caused significant subsequent back
pain. ;-)
There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but
most of the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I
can see) - e.g. 'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power
hand saw'. I did find one item
http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my
needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw
http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't find
it on a UK web site (at 250V).
I did find this one:
http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...7&prod_id=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

The All-purpose saw is totally unsuitable for this purpose! Firstly, you'd
have to lie it on its side, and even then you wouldn't be able to get the
blade close enough to the floor. Secondly, the blade will bend and go all
over the place and be uncontrollable. [This saw is fine when you span the
item to be cut - such as a small tree branch - but lethal if you try to cut
with just the tip of the rapidly reciprocating blade].

As others have said, if you *must* have a power tool, a biscuit jointer is
probably the way to go.

But I did all mine with a sharp flexible hard-point handsaw when I laid
wooden flooring in my hallway (and I had *lots* of doors plus a newel post
to do!). This was quite simple, and very controllable, using a flooring
offcut (with underlay under it) as a guide - just sliding the saw over it.

I assume that you *are* going to remove the skirting boards - and replace or
renew them after the flooring is down?!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"John E" wrote in message
...
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve undercutting 8
door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I have,
but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of cutting to
do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw, the task took a
long time, and caused significant subsequent back pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but most of
the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I can see) - e.g.
'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power hand saw'. I did find
one item http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist)
but this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my
needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw
http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't find it
on a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:
http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...7&prod_id=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

--

John

I would use a fein supercut. my pfz550 would not be suitable at all

Mrcheerful

Thanks Maris. It is the frame rather than the door itself which I will need
to cut. In theory, I understand it is best to remove the door frame and cut
it on a table - but that isn't really an option for me.


Maris wrote:
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:49:52 GMT, "John E"
wrote:

I've got a whole lot of flush fire doors that I intend to trim to size
to replace my existing ones. I have purchased an Einhell circular saw
for the purpose, which cost me £56.94 from DIYtools.co.uk. The Bosch
thing you show is really not the tool for the job. I would certainly
take the door off to do it as well.

Maris

I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the
job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I
have, but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of
cutting to do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw,
the task took a long time, and caused significant subsequent back
pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but
most of the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I
can see) - e.g. 'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power
hand saw'. I did find one item
http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my
needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw
http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't
find it on a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:
http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...7&prod_id=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John E wrote:

I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the
job. Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I
have, but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of
cutting to do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw,
the task took a long time, and caused significant subsequent back
pain. ;-)
There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but
most of the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I
can see) - e.g. 'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power
hand saw'. I did find one item
http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the Bepo twist) but
this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over the top for my
needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power hand saw
http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't find
it on a UK web site (at 250V).
I did find this one:
http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...7&prod_id=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

The All-purpose saw is totally unsuitable for this purpose! Firstly,
you'd have to lie it on its side, and even then you wouldn't be able
to get the blade close enough to the floor. Secondly, the blade will
bend and go all over the place and be uncontrollable. [This saw is
fine when you span the item to be cut - such as a small tree branch -
but lethal if you try to cut with just the tip of the rapidly
reciprocating blade].
As others have said, if you *must* have a power tool, a biscuit
jointer is probably the way to go.

But I did all mine with a sharp flexible hard-point handsaw when I
laid wooden flooring in my hallway (and I had *lots* of doors plus a
newel post to do!). This was quite simple, and very controllable,
using a flooring offcut (with underlay under it) as a guide - just
sliding the saw over it.
I assume that you *are* going to remove the skirting boards - and
replace or renew them after the flooring is down?!

O.K. I'm getting the message that the 'all purpose saw' is unsuitable. I
will remove the skirting boards. Certainly when I did this before with a
hand-saw, it was hard work, but it could be that the saw I used was not as
sharp as it might have been.

Thanks.

On 2007-01-09 15:49:52 +0000, "John E" said:

I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.

Some web sites recommend using a 'hard back mitre hand saw' which I
have, but I would prefer a power saw, since there is rather a lot of
cutting to do, and on the previous occasion that I used a hand saw, the
task took a long time, and caused significant subsequent back pain. ;-)

There seem to be a number of items available on the internet, but most
of the power tools are available in the USA only (as far as I can see)
- e.g. 'door jamb power saw' and the Bosch 'fine cut power hand saw'. I
did find one item http://www.bona1stopshop.co.uk/acatalog/B.html (the
Bepo twist) but this was nearly £400, and would seem to be a bit over
the top for my needs. I quite like the look of the Bosch fine cut power
hand saw
http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_To...~latest_prices
because that would be useful afterwards too. However, I couldn't find
it on a UK web site (at 250V).

I did find this one:
http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...7&prod_id=7574
the Bosch PFZ 600E All-purpose saw. Will this do the trick?

Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

I've done exactly this with oak door frames and used a Fein Multimaster
for the job.

This is a multi-purpose tool which is highly controllable and has a
large range of accessories for other jobs as well. It's not a £20
tool, nor a £400 one either, but I probably use it more than any of my
power tools.

http://www.feinmultimaster.co.uk/pro...ultimaster.htm

For the frame cutting application, a depressed centre saw blade is the
most suitable to use - there are either round ones or segment versions.
The latter can be used precisely into a corner.

In order to cut away a section of frame, the easiest way is to take a
piece of material (e.g. softwood or sheet material) of a thickness
equivalent to the height above the existing floor. Locate this up to
the frame and it will form a support for the blade and give you a neat
and straight cut.

If you look at the Applications area on this site and under Replacing
floor coverings, there is an illustration on how this is done.

I have also tried similar operations using a general purpose saw
similar to the Bosch PTZ. The problem is that it is difficult to get
the blade close enough to the floor and straight.

Another alternative you could try, which will work but is time
consuming, is a Japanese pull saw. These have thin and flexible
blades and can also be located using the top surface of a piece of
material pushed up to the frame.

John E wrote:

I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve undercutting 8
door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.

I would say you have a few options:

longish hardpoint hand saw - used against a bit of up turned flooring -
you will need to introduce enough latteral force on the blade such that
the bit doing the cutting is flat against the spacer. As you say, hard
work, but a good finish is achievable.

Used like above, you would also be able to use a reciprocating[1] saw
with a long (9-12") wood cutting blade. Again you use the capability of
the blade to bend into the right position for the cut. This would be a
good solution if there are hidden nails in the base of the jamb (you can
get timber / nail cutting blades)

Biscuit jointer - as others have said - you will need a packer under it
equal to the thickness of the finished floor level less the kerf of the
blade and the offset from the base of the jointer.

My weapon of choice would be a Fein multimaster with a cranked eCut[2]
or segment blade - that will give a fine and controlled cut. Again use
some upturned flooring as a spacer - no need to adjust for the blade
kerf since the blades are so fine.

[1] http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm
[2]
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a... ile=1&jump=0
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a... ile=1&jump=0


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message

My weapon of choice would be a Fein multimaster with a cranked eCut[2]
or segment blade - that will give a fine and controlled cut. Again use
some upturned flooring as a spacer - no need to adjust for the blade
kerf since the blades are so fine.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

You have mentioned the Biscuit Jointer also as a suggestion,why would you
use this fein tool which is slow and cumbersome as to the BJ which can do it
in one cut practically ie position,plunge,finish.

The FM you have to move the tool along the job trying to keep moving the
blade along a straight line.
I reckon this FM is useful where laminate is being fitted as the BJ does not
go low enough for cutting the achitraves.

On 2007-01-10 09:09:25 +0000, "George" said:


You have mentioned the Biscuit Jointer also as a suggestion,why would you
use this fein tool which is slow and cumbersome as to the BJ which can do it
in one cut practically ie position,plunge,finish.

Have you used a Multimaster? It isn't slow and cumbersome - I trimmed
several oak frames in short order.

The Biscuit Joiner may not have enough blade projection.


The FM you have to move the tool along the job trying to keep moving the
blade along a straight line.

Very straightforward if you follow the recommended example and rest the
blade on a piece of material of the
correct height.

I reckon this FM is useful where laminate is being fitted as the BJ does not
go low enough for cutting the achitraves.

It's useful anyway

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
The Biscuit Joiner may not have enough blade projection.


Mine projects 3/4" at the cutting tip without the adjustment stop taken off.

I would imagine an inch would project with stop taken off which would be
more than adequate even for victorian mouldings.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:


Used like above, you would also be able to use a reciprocating[1] saw
with a long (9-12") wood cutting blade. [1]
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm

Have you actually *read* this faq? Among other things, it says:

"Typically, reciprocating saws do not have a great amount of finesse, but
they are well suited to fast and crude cutting (think in terms of a somewhat
safer alternative to a chainsaw rather than an electric version of a tennon
saw!). As a result and they are more likely to find applications in
demolition work than they are in fine cabinet making!"

The OP needs one of these like a hole in the head!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

John Rumm wrote:
John E wrote:

I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the
job.

I would say you have a few options:


Biscuit jointer - as others have said - you will need a packer under
it equal to the thickness of the finished floor level less the kerf
of the blade and the offset from the base of the jointer.

My weapon of choice would be a Fein multimaster with a cranked eCut[2]
or segment blade - that will give a fine and controlled cut. Again use
some upturned flooring as a spacer - no need to adjust for the blade
kerf since the blades are so fine.

[1] http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm
[2]
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a... ile=1&jump=0
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a... ile=1&jump=0


Hello John. Thanks for this. I've been reading some customer reviews on the
Fein multimaster, and one comment which comes up is that the accessories
(e.g. for sanding and the saw blades) are expensive, rather flimsy and wear
out quickly. One poster suggests that the 'flimsyness' could be due to
applying too much pressure. Do you have a view about this?

I ask, because this looks like the most suitable all-round tool for me -
taking account of the need to buy something which will be useful for a lot
of other projects too.

--

John

John E wrote:

I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve undercutting 8
door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.

Door frames or skirtings too?

If you have a room full of skirtings, then it's time to shell out and
buy a Multimaster.

If it's just door frames (maybe you can lift the skirtings) then you
can do this quickly enough by hand. A Japanese-style pull saw is
easiest to use in this position, but they _really_ don't like to
encounter nails (one nail is quite possibly a dead saw). You could do
it easily enough with no more than a Happy Shopper tenon saw though.

I wouldn't use any powered saw other than a Multimaster or a dedicated
floor-fitting circular saw. Reciprocating saws don't go anything like
low enough and biscuit jointers are too high for most floorings. I'm
also not a fan of using biscuiters for other than plunge cuts. They're
not designed for it and you're left trying to mis-use a saw by sliding
it sideways while the spring is fighting against you. This is getting
unsafe.

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:

Used like above, you would also be able to use a reciprocating[1] saw
with a long (9-12") wood cutting blade. [1]
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm

Have you actually *read* this faq? Among other things, it says:

"Typically, reciprocating saws do not have a great amount of finesse, but
they are well suited to fast and crude cutting (think in terms of a somewhat
safer alternative to a chainsaw rather than an electric version of a tennon
saw!). As a result and they are more likely to find applications in
demolition work than they are in fine cabinet making!"

The OP needs one of these like a hole in the head!

IMO your earlier advice is the way to go

But I did all mine with a sharp flexible hard-point handsaw when I laid
wooden flooring in my hallway (and I had *lots* of doors plus a newel post
to do!). This was quite simple, and very controllable, using a flooring
offcut (with underlay under it) as a guide - just sliding the saw over it.

I can't see any power tool giving a better result, or being any faster
in the long run.

wrote in message
oups.com...

I wouldn't use any powered saw other than a Multimaster or a dedicated
floor-fitting circular saw. Reciprocating saws don't go anything like
low enough and biscuit jointers are too high for most floorings. I'm
also not a fan of using biscuiters for other than plunge cuts. They're
not designed for it and you're left trying to mis-use a saw by sliding
it sideways while the spring is fighting against you. This is getting
unsafe.


1.15mm plus 3mm is 18mm thats high enough cut for a BJ
2.You dont drag the BJ along you do two plunges on the architrave and chisle
of the bottom piece after you have cut through the wood as you would do with
a FM.

Estimated time with a BJ with minimium effort on one piece of architrave...
5 sec,with a FM about 60sec

George wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message

My weapon of choice would be a Fein multimaster with a cranked eCut[2]
or segment blade - that will give a fine and controlled cut. Again use
some upturned flooring as a spacer - no need to adjust for the blade
kerf since the blades are so fine.

You have mentioned the Biscuit Jointer also as a suggestion,why would you
use this fein tool which is slow and cumbersome as to the BJ which can do it
in one cut practically ie position,plunge,finish.

The multimaster is slower (although in practical terms for this job not
that slow) cutting than a BJ, but it is certainly not cumbersome.

The FM you have to move the tool along the job trying to keep moving the
blade along a straight line.

You would guide the blade against a bit of upturned flooring. Typically
I would use a general purpose narrow ish blade and make two or three
plunge cuts to pcomplete the job for each jamb. You can also cut square
edges right up to adjacent skirting etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:


Used like above, you would also be able to use a reciprocating[1] saw
with a long (9-12") wood cutting blade. [1]
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm


Have you actually *read* this faq? Among other things, it says:

I wrote it, does that count? ;-)

"Typically, reciprocating saws do not have a great amount of finesse, but
they are well suited to fast and crude cutting (think in terms of a somewhat
safer alternative to a chainsaw rather than an electric version of a tennon
saw!). As a result and they are more likely to find applications in
demolition work than they are in fine cabinet making!"

Perhaps there should be a caveate there. The lack of precision and
accuracy is a result of there (usually) being no mechanism to guide the
blade. In this case however, you would be using a bit of flooring to set
the exact cut position. As I said in my original post, it would not be
usually be my tool of choice, however it does have the advantage of
being it only meathod I can think of that would cope well with a jamb
that is nailed to the floor.

You will note it also says (under example uses):

"Freeing a door frame upright from the floor that it was skew-nailed to,
when the nails were fully home and the frame was held firm above. Using
the flexibility of a 9" blade to enable a cut to be made flush with the
floor, under the jamb." - this was not a line I invented, but an
anecdote from someone who had done this.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John E wrote:

Hello John. Thanks for this. I've been reading some customer reviews on the
Fein multimaster, and one comment which comes up is that the accessories
(e.g. for sanding and the saw blades) are expensive, rather flimsy and wear
out quickly. One poster suggests that the 'flimsyness' could be due to
applying too much pressure. Do you have a view about this?

The tool itself is anything but flimsy - the thing that strikes you the
moment you pick it up is just how solid it feels. The blades however
vary in robustness and really need to be treated separately:

Take sanding for example, since sanding pads seem to last rather better
here than when used on an ordinary detail sander. Things like the
carbide rasp are also very long lasting.

Of all the accessories, the ordinary cutting blades are perhaps the most
vulnerable. They are fairly fine toothed and hence you need to be
careful not pushing them too hard since they need time to clear swarf.
You will also need to watch for nails, or going right through the frame
and hitting masonry since this could take the edge off a blade. In the
case of a segment blade, all is not lost however since you can just use
another part of the blade. The danger (to the blade) comes when making
more substantial cuts where there is a temptation to try to cut faster.
For example it is a very good tool for lifting T&G floorboards with
minimal damage - you can cut through the tounges, and make very fine
cuts across the top of a joist, but you need to take it easy (I did
manage to shatter a lump off a HSS segment blade doing this once -
fortunately there was enough blade left to finish the job)

The carbide or diamond edged blades seem to last well and are much more
forgiving.

I ask, because this looks like the most suitable all-round tool for me -
taking account of the need to buy something which will be useful for a lot
of other projects too.

It is a very versatile tool for getting you out of situations that would
be very hard by other means. Recent examples include chopping of a
section of 40mm solvent weld waste pipe where the cabinet and other
pipes resulted in only one side of the pipe being visible, and there
being no easy way to get any other type of saw in there. A quick plunge
cut with a general purpose blade[1] solved that. Another similar cut was
used to trim of the bottom of some metal conduit buried in a wall - just
exposed enough of the conduit at the cut location and plunged a hacksaw
blade into it.

[1] This was a blunt blade with a good many of its teeth missing - the
result of an accidental plunge too far through a wood frame into a lump
of concrete that ought not have been there. However even knacked blades
will continue to cut, although they get a bit hotter in wood.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:58:49 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

[1] This was a blunt blade with a good many of its teeth missing - the
result of an accidental plunge too far through a wood frame into a lump
of concrete that ought not have been there. However even knacked blades
will continue to cut, although they get a bit hotter in wood.


The blades can be "filed" with new teeth with a Dremel and a cutoff wheel. Won't
be pretty, won't be terribly good, but better than binning them.


Thomas Prufer

John E wrote:
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.


Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

Thanks to all. I have now ordered a Fein Multimaster with a segmented
depressed blade. I decided that this would be the most versatile tool, given
that I will certainly use it for many other projects in addition to the
immediate one of cutting the door frames. This has been most useful. Thanks
again.

--

John

"John E" wrote in message
...
John E wrote:
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.


Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

Thanks to all. I have now ordered a Fein Multimaster with a segmented
depressed blade. I decided that this would be the most versatile tool,
given that I will certainly use it for many other projects in addition to
the immediate one of cutting the door frames. This has been most useful.
Thanks again.

--

You won't regret buying it. Brilliant tool, use mine all the time.
In addition to "normal" jobs you can use a knackered blade to neatly cut box
cut-outs in lathe & plaster without disturbing the surrounding
lathe/plaster.

Toby

George wrote:

1.15mm plus 3mm is 18mm thats high enough cut for a BJ

15mm+ is reasonable for hardwood flooring, but most of us encountering
this problem are doing it for laminates that are thinner than that, too
thin for a biscuit jointer.

2.You dont drag the BJ along you do two plunges on the architrave and chisle
of the bottom piece after you have cut through the wood as you would do with
a FM.

If you're just doing the architrave, then maybe. I certainly wouldn't
like to do a whole skirting by repeated plunges (or by dragging).

Estimated time with a BJ with minimium effort
5 sec,

I'm so sorry for you. Maybe more effort and it'll last longer?

"John E" wrote in message
...
John E wrote:
I have some hardwood flooring to lay, and this will involve
undercutting 8 door frames. I'm looking for the best tool for the job.


Any and all suggestions gratefully received...

Thanks to all. I have now ordered a Fein Multimaster with a segmented
depressed blade. I decided that this would be the most versatile tool,
given that I will certainly use it for many other projects in addition to
the immediate one of cutting the door frames. This has been most useful.
Thanks again.

--

John

I bought my fein supercut on a whim after reading here that they were good.
I didn't use it for several months, first job was my neighbour's new
kitchen, he had a piece of cornice to shorten in situ, right at the ceiling,
I was a bit cautious as I had not tried the supercut before, but in moments
I had made a cut so neat and precise it was amazing. since then I have only
used it to cut floorboards above joists and it makes an almost invisible
cut! very impressive tool of which so far I have only scratched the surface
of its abilities.

Mrcheerful

wrote in message
oups.com...

George wrote:

1.15mm plus 3mm is 18mm thats high enough cut for a BJ

15mm+ is reasonable for hardwood flooring, but most of us encountering
this problem are doing it for laminates that are thinner than that, too
thin for a biscuit jointer.

2.You dont drag the BJ along you do two plunges on the architrave and
chisle
of the bottom piece after you have cut through the wood as you would do
with
a FM.

If you're just doing the architrave, then maybe. I certainly wouldn't
like to do a whole skirting by repeated plunges (or by dragging).

Estimated time with a BJ with minimium effort
5 sec,

I'm so sorry for you. Maybe more effort and it'll last longer?


Stop being pedanitc he's taking the skirting off and anyway using either
tool to cut along skirting is ludicrus not to mention time consuming.

mrcheerful
. wrote:

I bought my fein supercut on a whim after reading here that they were good.

Damned expensive for a whim though! The Multimaster is pricey enough,
but I couldn't afford a Supercut.

Has anyone used both? Is there really that much difference?

I didn't use it for several months, first job was my neighbour's new
kitchen,

That's the trouble with them, they're always best at this sort of odd
job that nothing else can touch, and it's nearly always other people's
problems they get used for. I've never really _liked_ my Multimaster.
It's great for fixing boring, annoying things, but I never get to make
anything _creative_ or particularly satisfying with it. Handy thing,
but it's too much like work.

Estimated time with a BJ with minimium effort
5 sec,

I'm so sorry for you. Maybe more effort and it'll last longer?


Stop being pedanitc he's taking the skirting off and anyway using either
tool to cut along skirting is ludicrus not to mention time consuming.


Think you missed the smutty joke there!

wrote in message
oups.com...

mrcheerful
. wrote:

I bought my fein supercut on a whim after reading here that they were
good.

Damned expensive for a whim though! The Multimaster is pricey enough,
but I couldn't afford a Supercut.

Has anyone used both? Is there really that much difference?

I didn't use it for several months, first job was my neighbour's new
kitchen,

That's the trouble with them, they're always best at this sort of odd
job that nothing else can touch, and it's nearly always other people's
problems they get used for. I've never really _liked_ my Multimaster.
It's great for fixing boring, annoying things, but I never get to make
anything _creative_ or particularly satisfying with it. Handy thing,
but it's too much like work.

I got my supercut off ebay, brand new, unused for less than a multimaster
would normally be. I must admit that I love tools though, and can put it
down as a business expense. The more I use it the more I like it.

Mrcheerful

On 2007-01-10 16:38:19 +0000, "Andy Dingley "
said:


George wrote:

Estimated time with a BJ with minimium effort
5 sec,

I'm so sorry for you. Maybe more effort and it'll last longer?

ROTFL. I wondered when the perfect opportunity would arise.

mrcheerful . wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
mrcheerful
. wrote:

I bought my fein supercut on a whim after reading here that they were
good.
Damned expensive for a whim though! The Multimaster is pricey enough,
but I couldn't afford a Supercut.

Has anyone used both? Is there really that much difference?

I didn't use it for several months, first job was my neighbour's new
kitchen,
That's the trouble with them, they're always best at this sort of odd
job that nothing else can touch, and it's nearly always other people's
problems they get used for. I've never really _liked_ my Multimaster.
It's great for fixing boring, annoying things, but I never get to make
anything _creative_ or particularly satisfying with it. Handy thing,
but it's too much like work.

I got my supercut off ebay, brand new, unused for less than a multimaster
would normally be. I must admit that I love tools though, and can put it
down as a business expense. The more I use it the more I like it.

Mrcheerful



If it cuts floorboards over joists, it wouldn't need to do much else

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
mrcheerful . wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
mrcheerful
. wrote:

I bought my fein supercut on a whim after reading here that they were
good.
Damned expensive for a whim though! The Multimaster is pricey enough,
but I couldn't afford a Supercut.

Has anyone used both? Is there really that much difference?

I didn't use it for several months, first job was my neighbour's new
kitchen,
That's the trouble with them, they're always best at this sort of odd
job that nothing else can touch, and it's nearly always other people's
problems they get used for. I've never really _liked_ my Multimaster.
It's great for fixing boring, annoying things, but I never get to make
anything _creative_ or particularly satisfying with it. Handy thing,
but it's too much like work.

I got my supercut off ebay, brand new, unused for less than a multimaster
would normally be. I must admit that I love tools though, and can put it
down as a business expense. The more I use it the more I like it.

Mrcheerful

If it cuts floorboards over joists, it wouldn't need to do much else

It does, I used to use a circular saw, set to a suitable depth, but in
comparison that is like using a hammer and chisel, compared to the job that
the Fein Supercut does.

Mrcheerful