"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.. .
Best he get the right taps: 54621 above. Sorted.

That doesn't have a hose. Keep up. Muppet.

Read what I wrote dope. He needs 1.5 bar to operate the hose. Then a big
expensive noisy pump is needed. Not worth it as the hoses are not used much
anyhow, as most people have dishwashers. And as the hot and cold are still
not equal pressure the mixing is not going to be pretty good either.

If he really wants this hose thingy then best get a full mains pressure
system. One pump on one tap for just a hose?

Read what I wrote dope. He needs 1.5 bar to operate the hose. Then a big
expensive noisy pump is needed. Not worth it as the hoses are not used
much anyhow, as most people have dishwashers. And as the hot and cold are
still not equal pressure the mixing is not going to be pretty good either.

So:

OP wants a hose tap with good pressure and fast hot water flow.

Your solution is to say that the OP is mistaken and what he actually wants
is a crap normal tap that you can use for hosing down pots and cleaning the
sink.

I tell you, I'm really regretting not getting one myself, as it is a pain
cleaning the sink without one.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.. .
Read what I wrote dope. He needs 1.5 bar to operate the hose. Then a big
expensive noisy pump is needed. Not worth it as the hoses are not used
much anyhow, as most people have dishwashers. And as the hot and cold are
still not equal pressure the mixing is not going to be pretty good
either.

So:

OP wants a hose tap with good pressure and fast hot water flow.

Your solution is to say that the OP is mistaken and what he actually wants
is a crap normal tap that you can use for hosing down pots and cleaning
the sink.

What he should have done is bought the right taps to suit his system.

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I'll ask again - more in hope than anticipation. Where does one buy the
type of mixer tap the OP has for a combined low pressure hot, high
pressure cold, supply?

Just bought a bath filler and basin filler from Boundary Bathrooms. Dual
control, 1/4 turn ceramic disc, monoblock, twin flow, suitable for low
and pressure systems. The key words are "twin flow" rather than "mixer".

Bath units tend not to be so difficult as many are available with 22mm
fittings.

On the OPs problem it may well be related to his fancy tap. It could
well be designed for high pressure systems only and thus will perform
badly on a normal UK HW tank fed (low pressure) HW system.

Snag is he obviously wanted the design he bought - as I did. Although
there was nothing in the instructions about it being high pressure only.
So the obvious answer is a pump - which ups the total cost, but does the
job. And much more cheaply than converting to a high pressure hot water
system - if you already have a decent storage one.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Read what I wrote dope. He needs 1.5 bar to operate the hose. Then a
big expensive noisy pump is needed. Not worth it as the hoses are not
used much anyhow, as most people have dishwashers.

He washes his vegetables in a dishwasher. 'Nuff said.

--
*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
What he should have done is bought the right taps to suit his system.

With twin combis, obviously.

The person who recommends the most extravagant systems can't understand
that a pump works. Probably because it involves electricity.

--
*Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

EricP wrote in
:


Presumably the feed tank is in the roof? You could look at raising
this. Even a few feet might make a difference in the pressure
available.


I agree with your critiscisms of the system, but I tried raising the CW
tank, a few feet was all I could gain and it made buggerall differenceand
was a lot of work.

I found the answer was to fit a pump, but to get the benefit you have to
improve the feed to the cylinder; at least 22mm, few corners, preferably
bends, full bore ball valve.

Then as the pipework after the HW cylinder seems equally horrible, upgrade
to 15 mm all the way to the tap; hopefully your tap will have 10mm tails,
not 6mm - that will help.

mike

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:56:03 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Bath units tend not to be so difficult as many are available with 22mm
fittings.

Not on single hole monoblocks, their just ain't the space. This bath
filler is feed via 15mm tube into the base. It'll have 22mm for
everything but the last few inches mind including full bore "service"
valves. The basin filler has 10mm tails.

Boundary Bathroom do do some kitchen stuff as well. The simple act of
buying a tap isn't quite as simple as first appears. Lots of things to
take into consideration and then you have to find the relevant data from
the makers, which sometimes isn't easy. Also low pressure systems are a
bit of a UK peculiarity, a lot of "designer" taps from the continent are
HP only.

All this isn't a problem, provided you go in with yoru eyes open and with
solutions for the possible problems in mind, if you *really* must have
*that* tap.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I'll ask again - more in hope than anticipation. Where does one buy the
type of mixer tap the OP has for a combined low pressure hot, high
pressure cold, supply?

Just bought a bath filler and basin filler from Boundary Bathrooms. Dual
control, 1/4 turn ceramic disc, monoblock, twin flow, suitable for low
and pressure systems. The key words are "twin flow" rather than "mixer".

Bath units tend not to be so difficult as many are available with 22mm
fittings.

On the OPs problem it may well be related to his fancy tap. It could
well be designed for high pressure systems only and thus will perform
badly on a normal UK HW tank fed (low pressure) HW system.

Snag is he obviously wanted the design he bought - as I did.

You didn't, you didn't know the difference between low and high pressure
taps.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
What he should have done is bought the right taps to suit his system.

With

Will you please eff off as you are an idiot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Read what I wrote dope. He needs 1.5 bar to operate the hose. Then a
big expensive noisy pump is needed. Not worth it as the hoses are not
used much anyhow, as most people have dishwashers.

He

Will you please eff off as you a complete idiot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Read what I wrote dope. He needs 1.5 bar to operate the hose. Then a
big expensive noisy pump is needed. Not worth it as the hoses are not
used much anyhow, as most people have dishwashers.

He washes his vegetables in a dishwasher. 'Nuff said.



Isn't that classed as child cruelty?

--
Ron

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Snag is he obviously wanted the design he bought - as I did.

You didn't, you didn't know the difference between low and high pressure
taps.

And you wouldn't know a well designed one if it was stuck up your arse.

--
Small asylum seeker wanted as mud flap, must be flexible and willing to travel

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Snag is he obviously wanted the design he bought - as I did.

You didn't, you didn't know the difference between low and high pressure
taps.

And

Will you please eff off as you are a total idiot.

John[/i][/color][/i][/color]

I just installed a Grundfos 15/90 Home
Booster pump on system that sounds
remarkably like yours. The difference
is immesurable to be honest - and was
doddle to fit under the kitchen sink. Its almost
silent and turns on only when required.
I looked for ages on ebay and finally picked
up a brand new one for £20 - I think the retail price is
c £100.

I can't believe this. Another one!!! One pump on one tap. You get your
Association application form soon.

But it will save hours and hours of fitting a new run.

All he has to do is fit the right taps, circa £50.

I'm sure this is not the most
professional way to do it

You bet your boots it is not.[/quote]


Well I'm not a regular contributor - but regular browser of this forum and its kind of hard to follow all the inane "banter" however - the main point is that
a) it would be more "efficient" for the OP to install a high pressure System
b) failing this, totally re-run the pipework from the cylinder and use a frankly grotesque tap from the screwfic catalogue last seen in a school kitchen c.1978

The truth is that fancy-schmantzy taps that look good in a nice modern kitchen generally are designed for high pressure systems only. From the Sheds to fleabay they;re all the same mass prioduced continental crap - I had to take back three taps to B&Q as they leaked very very slightly causing it to drip - v annoying.
I sense the OP like me did not want to rip out his entire central heating system in order to install a tap and was probably unwilling to use a nasty looking one "designed" for gravity fed systems. The pump - as it happens with a total cost £20 is a pretty good half-way house. The pressure is much better (not perfect of course) and now my nice tap that looks nice on my nice sink in my nice kitchen works.
I thought this was a DIY forum - and should therefore give people practical advice to questions that are perplexing them - there are many solutions to the OPs original dilemma - it would seem that most of the suggestions are perfectly valid (including my own I think) and the OP can choose which route to follow according to how much time and effort he is perpared to put into the solution. BTW having one pump on one tap - I dont know what the difference is between this and having a single pump on a single shower which I have too and cant believe is particularly uncommon??

In article ,
alexbartman wrote:
Well I'm not a regular contributor - but regular browser of this forum
and its kind of hard to follow all the inane "banter"

It's quite easy really - just ignore Drivel except when he gives some
reference to a new bit of kit he's got from a catalogue. That can be
useful for those who don't have the time to do nothing else but read such
things. For advice on whether it might be of use, look elsewhere. Plenty
of truly skilled and objective advice here from both those working in the
industry and skilled amateurs.

however - the main point is that

a) it would be more "efficient" for the OP to install a high pressure
System

Depends on how you'd define 'efficiency'. If it's a simple matter of
energy in to energy out that *might* be the case. If it means an efficient
system for your needs other factors apply.

b) failing this, totally re-run the pipework from the cylinder and use a
frankly grotesque tap from the screwfic catalogue last seen in a school
kitchen c.1978

Bit like the argument between some low energy lamps and filament types?

The truth is that fancy-schmantzy taps that look good in a nice modern
kitchen generally are designed for high pressure systems only. From the
Sheds to fleabay they;re all the same mass prioduced continental crap -
I had to take back three taps to B&Q as they leaked very very slightly
causing it to drip - v annoying. I sense the OP like me did not want to
rip out his entire central heating system in order to install a tap and
was probably unwilling to use a nasty looking one "designed" for gravity
fed systems. The pump - as it happens with a total cost £20 is a pretty
good half-way house. The pressure is much better (not perfect of
course) and now my nice tap that looks nice on my nice sink in my nice
kitchen works.

Since I have a three story house with the tank as high as possible, the
difference in my case wasn't great. But adding the pump was worth it too.

I thought this was a DIY forum - and should therefore
give people practical advice to questions that are perplexing them -
there are many solutions to the OPs original dilemma - it would seem
that most of the suggestions are perfectly valid (including my own I
think) and the OP can choose which route to follow according to how much
time and effort he is perpared to put into the solution. BTW having one
pump on one tap - I dont know what the difference is between this and
having a single pump on a single shower which I have too and cant
believe is particularly uncommon??

Dribble delights in giving the most convoluted half baked answers to the
simplest problems. Probably in an attempt to show his 'superior'
knowledge. Luckily, he's just about the only one, so just follow the
majority advice.

--
*No radio - Already stolen.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"alexbartman" wrote in message
...

I thought this was a DIY forum - and should therefore give people
practical advice to questions that are perplexing them

And one is get the right taps for the system. B&Q and Screw are not the
only people who sell taps. Contact the makers they will always help.
Blindly buying something because you like the look or it is cheap can lead
to problem - and invariably they do.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
alexbartman wrote:
Well I'm not a regular contributor - but regular browser of this forum
and its kind of hard to follow all the inane "banter"

It's

Will you please eff off as you are a complete idiot.

On 2006-11-17 10:29:57 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"alexbartman" wrote in message
...

I thought this was a DIY forum - and should therefore give people
practical advice to questions that are perplexing them

And one is get the right taps for the system. B&Q and Screw are not
the only people who sell taps. Contact the makers they will always
help. Blindly buying something because you like the look or it is cheap
can lead to problem - and invariably they do.

So why are you proposing buying cheap taps?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2006-11-17 10:29:57 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"alexbartman" wrote in message
...

I thought this was a DIY forum - and should therefore give people
practical advice to questions that are perplexing them

And one is get the right taps for the system. B&Q and Screw are not the
only people who sell taps. Contact the makers they will always help.
Blindly buying something because you like the look or it is cheap can
lead to problem - and invariably they do.

So why are you proposing buying cheap taps?

Matt, you must read. Cheap doesn't necessarily mean bad if you know what you
are buying. Conversely the same with expensive and you know with those
rip-off Makita's you bought that perform no more than PP Pro.

On 2006-11-17 21:28:30 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2006-11-17 10:29:57 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"alexbartman" wrote in message
...

I thought this was a DIY forum - and should therefore give people
practical advice to questions that are perplexing them

And one is get the right taps for the system. B&Q and Screw are not
the only people who sell taps. Contact the makers they will always
help. Blindly buying something because you like the look or it is cheap
can lead to problem - and invariably they do.

So why are you proposing buying cheap taps?

Matt, you must read. Cheap doesn't necessarily mean bad if you know
what you are buying.

Let's be honest. It does here, doesn't it.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2006-11-17 21:28:30 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2006-11-17 10:29:57 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"alexbartman" wrote in message
...

I thought this was a DIY forum - and should therefore give people
practical advice to questions that are perplexing them

And one is get the right taps for the system. B&Q and Screw are not
the only people who sell taps. Contact the makers they will always
help. Blindly buying something because you like the look or it is cheap
can lead to problem - and invariably they do.

So why are you proposing buying cheap taps?

Matt, you must read. Cheap doesn't necessarily mean bad if you know what
you are buying.

Let's be honest. It does here, doesn't it.

Matt? Your Little Middle Englandness is getting the better of you.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I thought this was a DIY forum - and should therefore give people
practical advice to questions that are perplexing them

And one is get the right taps for the system. B&Q and Screw are not
the only people who sell taps. Contact the makers they will always
help. Blindly buying something because you like the look or it is
cheap can lead to problem - and invariably they do.

So why are you proposing buying cheap taps?

Matt, you must read. Cheap doesn't necessarily mean bad if you know what
you are buying.

Well, I asked where you'd buy a suitable tap of the type the OP has and
all you came up with was Screwfix basic stuff. Hardly a substitute.


Conversely the same with expensive and you know with those
rip-off Makita's you bought that perform no more than PP Pro.

'Makita's' what?

--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I thought this was a DIY forum - and should therefore give people
practical advice to questions that are perplexing them

And one is get the right taps for the system. B&Q and Screw are not
the only people who sell taps. Contact the makers they will always
help. Blindly buying something because you like the look or it is
cheap can lead to problem - and invariably they do.

So why are you proposing buying cheap taps?

Matt, you must read. Cheap doesn't necessarily mean bad if you know what
you are buying.

Well, I asked where you'd buy a suitable tap of the type the OP has and
all you came up with was Screwfix basic stuff. Hardly a substitute.


Conversely the same with expensive and you know with those
rip-off Makita's you bought that perform no more than PP Pro.

'Makita's'

Will you please eff off as you are plantpot.

OP he

Thanks for all the posts about how to improve flow-through in my kitchen
HW tap. I didn't realize (and certainly was never told by MFI!) that my
fancy tap should really be pressurised! I will be looking at the pump
suggested by a couple of posters, and also at the cheaper alternatives
suggested.

Just for info: I'd thought about increasing the diameter of the
feed-pipe to 22mm because I was thinking in terms of weight of water
coming to the tap. What I hadn't considered - as several pointed out -
was that this would increase the amount of cold water waiting to be run
off, before the hot finally came through! duhhh.

Thanks a lot everyone -- very useful exchange, for me.

John

"John" wrote in message
...
OP he

Thanks for all the posts about how to improve flow-through in my kitchen
HW tap. I didn't realize (and certainly was never told by MFI!) that my
fancy tap should really be pressurised! I will be looking at the pump
suggested by a couple of posters, and also at the cheaper alternatives
suggested.

If it is a spray attachment tap then they usually need 1.5 bar to operate
the spray. This means a pump is around 2 bar minimum, which is usually an
expensive pump. A shower pump will not do, as they are designed for
continuous running for 15 to 30 mins 3 to 4 times a day. A kitchen tap may
be turned on for a few seconds then off then on again. This may lead to
early failure on a pump not designed for this operation.

Personally I would abandon the taps and get a non-spray attachment high or
low pressure mixer.

Just for info: I'd thought about increasing the diameter of the
feed-pipe to 22mm because I was thinking in terms of weight of water
coming to the tap.

That will not make the tap work properly.

In article ,
John wrote:
Thanks for all the posts about how to improve flow-through in my kitchen
HW tap. I didn't realize (and certainly was never told by MFI!) that my
fancy tap should really be pressurised!

Not pressurised as such but designed for mains pressure water which is at
a higher pressure than most storage systems.

And it is annoying that tap makers don't see fit to label them with the
pressure required. Probably because they're in the main made in Italy
where such refinements as stored water systems aren't common.

--
*Being healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John" wrote in message
...
OP he

Thanks for all the posts about how to improve flow-through in my
kitchen HW tap. I didn't realize (and certainly was never told by
MFI!) that my fancy tap should really be pressurised! I will be
looking at the pump suggested by a couple of posters, and also at the
cheaper alternatives suggested.

If it is a spray attachment tap then they usually need 1.5 bar to
operate the spray. This means a pump is around 2 bar minimum, which is
usually an expensive pump.

The same cost as a decent mixer?

A shower pump will not do, as they are
designed for continuous running for 15 to 30 mins 3 to 4 times a day.
A kitchen tap may be turned on for a few seconds then off then on
again. This may lead to early failure on a pump not designed for this
operation.

You don't have to look too far to find a suitable one. Surprising given
your extensive use of Google.

http://www.pumpsukltd.com/StockItem....&Item=unassign

Personally I would abandon the taps and get a non-spray attachment high
or low pressure mixer.

Well yes. You would. Make a problem go away by the easiest method *you*
understand.

Just for info: I'd thought about increasing the diameter of the
feed-pipe to 22mm because I was thinking in terms of weight of water
coming to the tap.

That will not make the tap work properly.

It would also likely cost more than a pump...

--
*The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John" wrote in message
...
OP he

Thanks for all the posts about how to improve flow-through in my
kitchen HW tap. I didn't realize (and certainly was never told by
MFI!) that my fancy tap should really be pressurised! I will be
looking at the pump suggested by a couple of posters, and also at the
cheaper alternatives suggested.

If it is a spray attachment tap then they usually need 1.5 bar to
operate the spray. This means a pump is around 2 bar minimum, which is
usually an expensive pump.

The same cost as a decent mixer?

A shower pump will not do, as they are
designed for continuous running for 15 to 30 mins 3 to 4 times a day.
A kitchen tap may be turned on for a few seconds then off then on
again. This may lead to early failure on a pump not designed for this
operation.

You

Will you please eff off as you are a complete plantpot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John wrote:
Thanks for all the posts about how to improve flow-through in my kitchen
HW tap. I didn't realize (and certainly was never told by MFI!) that my
fancy tap should really be pressurised!

Not pressurised as such but designed for mains pressure water which is at
a higher pressure than most storage systems.

And it is annoying that tap makers don't see fit to label them with the
pressure required.

Or plantpots don't know the difference between high and low pressure taps
and fit pumps.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
And it is annoying that tap makers don't see fit to label them with the
pressure required.

Or plantpots don't know the difference between high and low pressure
taps and fit pumps.

Not that I expect an answer, but just how do you tell the difference? I'll
give others the answer - you can't. A 15mm connector is no guarantee it is
a low pressure type.

It constantly amazes me just how little practical experience you have for
one who claims so much...

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John" wrote in message
...
OP he

Thanks for all the posts about how to improve flow-through in my kitchen
HW tap. I didn't realize (and certainly was never told by MFI!) that my
fancy tap should really be pressurised! I will be looking at the pump
suggested by a couple of posters, and also at the cheaper alternatives
suggested.

Just for info: I'd thought about increasing the diameter of the
feed-pipe to 22mm because I was thinking in terms of weight of water
coming to the tap.

Which might have some merit if the pressure created by a head of water was
actually affected by the pipe diameter - which it isn't.

What I hadn't considered - as several pointed out -
was that this would increase the amount of cold water waiting to be run
off, before the hot finally came through! duhhh.

Thanks a lot everyone -- very useful exchange, for me.

John
--
Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines
www.pumaracing.co.uk
Camp USA engineer minces about for high performance specialist (4,4,7)

Just for info: I'd thought about increasing the diameter of the
feed-pipe to 22mm because I was thinking in terms of weight of water
coming to the tap.

Which might have some merit if the pressure created by a head of water was
actually affected by the pipe diameter - which it isn't.


That's correct for a static head.
However, under flowing conditions, the pressure drop over the length of pipe
will be less with the larger pipe.

( At the cost of a larger volume to be flushed befor the hot arrives. )

Not that it makes the slightest difference in this case.. the pressure drop
in the pipe is insignificant compared to the pressure difference between a
( say ) 3 Bar pressurised system required here and a fractional bar gravity
fed system which is what we have. Even replacing it with the fattest, most
directly-routed pipe imaginable can still only bring the flowing pressure
closer to the static head, which itself is still way to small.

--
Ron

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
And it is annoying that tap makers don't see fit to label them with the
pressure required.

Or plantpots don't know the difference between high and low pressure
taps and fit pumps.

Not

Will you kindly eff off as you are a total idiot.