Well it finally happened.
We are officially liquidating the Machine shop at South Seattle
Community College.
Most of the equipment has already been tagged by various departments
and some other colleges.
In the Welding department, we will be upgrading to a newer, nicer
Bridgeport Mill with more attachments, and a nice LeBlond Regal Lathe
will be replacing our ancient and massive 1936 Monarch AA.

I spent 6 hours today sorting through boxes and cabinets, grabbing and
tagging any tooling we might want.

I felt like a cross between a Viking raider and a vulture picking the
flesh off a carcass.

All the shops on campus will be getting a Bridgeport mill and a LeBlond
lathe from the Machine shop.
Whatever we don't take is scheduled to go to Spokane Community College.

Found lots of stuff that had been squirreled away over the many years
the shop was in operation.

More large taps than I was prepared for.
There are still about 1000 lbs of BIG drillbits we have yet to sort
through.

The only machines that nobody wants so far are the BIG, I MEAN BIGGG,
horizontal boring machine, 4 horizontal Harding mills, and a really
nice Cincinati Bickford column drillpress.
Believe me I wish we had room for that drill press.


Whatever is left over from shops on campus and other schools, will go
to the Washington State Salvage operation.

They are taking some of the machines and tooling down to the Duwamish
branch campus to set up a small machine shop for teaching contract
classes.
It will be mostly CNC machines.

I knew this was coming, but it still was a shock to actually have to
deal with it today.

Well it finally happened.
We are officially liquidating the Machine shop at South Seattle
Community College.

Sadly, I know of at least 4 machine shop closings at local colleges in our
(MN) area. I don't understand, why is it that today's kids aren't interested
in this field? (My son is an exception - he went to machine shop as a
Junior/Senior high school pre-grad option) This is a great field to be in,
there's a job in every town in the whole nation, you work inside, the pay's
good,etc. etc. Plus you set yourself up for one of the most satisfying
hobbies there is.

Karl

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 10:33:04 GMT, the inscrutable Ernie Leimkuhler
spake:

Well it finally happened.
We are officially liquidating the Machine shop at South Seattle
Community College.
--snip--
I knew this was coming, but it still was a shock to actually have to
deal with it today.

Condolences, Ernie. Lawyers and lack of foresight win another one, eh?
Bloody 'ell.


================================================== ========
Save the ||| http://diversify.com
Endangered SKEETS! ||| Web Application Programming
================================================== ========

Don't worry, China will pick up the slack.

In article t, Karl
Townsend wrote:

Well it finally happened.
We are officially liquidating the Machine shop at South Seattle
Community College.

Sadly, I know of at least 4 machine shop closings at local colleges in our
(MN) area. I don't understand, why is it that today's kids aren't interested
in this field? (My son is an exception - he went to machine shop as a
Junior/Senior high school pre-grad option) This is a great field to be in,
there's a job in every town in the whole nation, you work inside, the pay's
good,etc. etc. Plus you set yourself up for one of the most satisfying
hobbies there is.

Karl



Seattle's problem is Boeing.
They have laid off so many machinists over the last few years that
there just aren't any machining jobs in the whle Northwest.
With no job prospects, there is little insentive for kids to go into
the field.
It is the same reason they shut down the Avionics program and the
Automation Controls program over the last 5 years.

The guys coming out of Boeing have many years of experience and kids
fresh out of school can't compete.

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
news:040320051042336734%


Seattle's problem is Boeing.
They have laid off so many machinists over the last few years that
there just aren't any machining jobs in the whle Northwest.
With no job prospects, there is little insentive for kids to go into
the field.
It is the same reason they shut down the Avionics program and the
Automation Controls program over the last 5 years.

The guys coming out of Boeing have many years of experience and kids
fresh out of school can't compete.

That is not entirely true. I see machinists jobs listed in the paper and the
internet job sites all the time here. They are looking for experienced CNC
people however, and I don't qualify. Its the age old saying that it is hard
to get experience if nobody will hire you to give you the experience.
Lane

Similar things happened in Northern California. Sacramento City College's
program went years ago. Sierra College's program went a couple years ago.
The loss of two airforce bases and an army depot had a lot to do with it.
Nearest machine shop programs to Sacramento are now both about 50 miles away
at Delta College in Stockton and Yuba College in Marysville. I assume Yuba
is still viable because Beale Airforce Base, home of the U2 and Global Hawk,
is next door. Delta seems to survive because it offers the opportunity to
get CNC skills. They have 3 Fadal CNC machining centers and a tool room
mill, and two CNC lathes, along with all the manual stuff one would expect.
There seem to be jobs in many companies around here for folks with CNC
skills. And there are even some jobs for those without them. I talked with
the owner of one business who was complaining about not being able to find
qualified machinists.

Part of the problem in California was a Superintendent of Education who
decided every kid was supposed to go to college. The gutting of vocational
programs in high school and community college pretty much started with him.
But there is a glimmer of hope. One local school district is supposed to be
bringing back shop classes in highschool.

So, Ernie, with the LeBlond Regal lathe, you are only 3 generations obsolete
instead of 4? Actually, that should be a real nice machine for a welding
program.

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
| In article t, Karl
| Townsend wrote:
|
| Well it finally happened.
| We are officially liquidating the Machine shop at South Seattle
| Community College.
|
| Sadly, I know of at least 4 machine shop closings at local colleges in
our
| (MN) area. I don't understand, why is it that today's kids aren't
interested
| in this field? (My son is an exception - he went to machine shop as a
| Junior/Senior high school pre-grad option) This is a great field to be
in,
| there's a job in every town in the whole nation, you work inside, the
pay's
| good,etc. etc. Plus you set yourself up for one of the most satisfying
| hobbies there is.
|
| Karl
|
|
|
| Seattle's problem is Boeing.
| They have laid off so many machinists over the last few years that
| there just aren't any machining jobs in the whle Northwest.
| With no job prospects, there is little insentive for kids to go into
| the field.
| It is the same reason they shut down the Avionics program and the
| Automation Controls program over the last 5 years.
|
| The guys coming out of Boeing have many years of experience and kids
| fresh out of school can't compete.

"Machinists" is a general term for all the mechanics, electricians,
plumbers, etc that build the planes. Name of the union, IAM, BTW. In order
to be a "real" machinist at Boeing, you have to go through an apprenticeship
which you really have to want in order to get it. I'm thinking about it,
but not willing to take a 25% pay cut in order to get better pay five years
down the road.
To a certain degree, you're right, though. When Boeing ramps back up,
like now, the demand increases slightly, but with more and more work being
outsourced, jobs like these are less and less at The Lazy B. One thing that
I've noticed is that the Boeing folks tend to have a much tighter set of
tolerances than folks on the "outside" who've never had to work to such
precision. When I'm even cutting wood I'm thinking about 64th's!

In article , Footy
wrote:

Similar things happened in Northern California. Sacramento City College's
program went years ago. Sierra College's program went a couple years ago.
The loss of two airforce bases and an army depot had a lot to do with it.
Nearest machine shop programs to Sacramento are now both about 50 miles away
at Delta College in Stockton and Yuba College in Marysville. I assume Yuba
is still viable because Beale Airforce Base, home of the U2 and Global Hawk,
is next door. Delta seems to survive because it offers the opportunity to
get CNC skills. They have 3 Fadal CNC machining centers and a tool room
mill, and two CNC lathes, along with all the manual stuff one would expect.
There seem to be jobs in many companies around here for folks with CNC
skills. And there are even some jobs for those without them. I talked with
the owner of one business who was complaining about not being able to find
qualified machinists.

Part of the problem in California was a Superintendent of Education who
decided every kid was supposed to go to college. The gutting of vocational
programs in high school and community college pretty much started with him.
But there is a glimmer of hope. One local school district is supposed to be
bringing back shop classes in highschool.

So, Ernie, with the LeBlond Regal lathe, you are only 3 generations obsolete
instead of 4? Actually, that should be a real nice machine for a welding
program.



Mosty of the Lathes in the machine shop were LeBlond Regal Lathes.
I like LeBlonds.
At Purdue I had a 16" Leblond Dual-Drive that I dearly loved.

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
Well it finally happened.
We are officially liquidating the Machine shop at South Seattle
Community College.
Most of the equipment has already been tagged by various departments
and some other colleges.
In the Welding department, we will be upgrading to a newer, nicer
Bridgeport Mill with more attachments, and a nice LeBlond Regal Lathe
will be replacing our ancient and massive 1936 Monarch AA.

I spent 6 hours today sorting through boxes and cabinets, grabbing and
tagging any tooling we might want.

I felt like a cross between a Viking raider and a vulture picking the
flesh off a carcass.

All the shops on campus will be getting a Bridgeport mill and a LeBlond
lathe from the Machine shop.
Whatever we don't take is scheduled to go to Spokane Community College.

Found lots of stuff that had been squirreled away over the many years
the shop was in operation.

More large taps than I was prepared for.
There are still about 1000 lbs of BIG drillbits we have yet to sort
through.

The only machines that nobody wants so far are the BIG, I MEAN BIGGG,
horizontal boring machine, 4 horizontal Harding mills, and a really
nice Cincinati Bickford column drillpress.
Believe me I wish we had room for that drill press.

We have a 21" Super Service at work. It came out of a Case New Holland plant
in PA. I love it. Giddings and Lewis still has most parts available for it.

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT to reply wrote back on Fri, 04
Mar 2005 13:00:02 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
Well it finally happened.
We are officially liquidating the Machine shop at South Seattle
Community College.

Sadly, I know of at least 4 machine shop closings at local colleges in our
(MN) area. I don't understand, why is it that today's kids aren't interested
in this field? (My son is an exception - he went to machine shop as a
Junior/Senior high school pre-grad option) This is a great field to be in,
there's a job in every town in the whole nation, you work inside, the pay's
good,etc. etc. Plus you set yourself up for one of the most satisfying
hobbies there is.

The main problem is a) who wants to work in a dirty machine shop?
(perceptions of the trade are out dated) and B) it takes a college degree
to make Real Money (wrong data on long term advantages of the trades.)

Other issues are the general perception that there is no demand for
machinists or other skilled workers: the US is a service based economy and
outsourceing everything that merely deals with real goods (like
transforming raw material into finished goods.)
Then there is the concern about liability if a student gets injured in
the course of training, the decision that there is no need for metal shop
in High School, and of course Seattle and Washington's governmental
aversion to industrial jobs.

There is a catch 22 at work here, there aren't enough machinists
available, so work is sent overseas, there aren't any jobs for machinists,
so why train to become one?
I just spent two and half years to complete the two year machine
technology program at Renton. [hey, I finished a four year bachelor's
program in six.] Now I'm ready to start the long road to competency, aka
"job experience". Ghods willing, I can get a journeyman's card in four
years, which will leave me fifteen years to build up a nest egg so that I
can retire at 70.

If I could do it over, someone would have said to me in High School
"Pete, you might like this...", and introduced me to the world of machine
shop. Of course, I'd have a different set of problems, and would probably
be living in Oklahoma, but ... .

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote back on Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:40:14 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
Seattle's problem is Boeing.
They have laid off so many machinists over the last few years that
there just aren't any machining jobs in the whle Northwest.
With no job prospects, there is little insentive for kids to go into
the field.
It is the same reason they shut down the Avionics program and the
Automation Controls program over the last 5 years.

The guys coming out of Boeing have many years of experience and kids
fresh out of school can't compete.

I call bs (even if I agree that the downsizing of Boeing is making
Machinists a drug on the market.). The kids fresh out of school have no
bad habits to overcome. (The kids out of school also have no idea what
they could demand in terms of pay, so ... .)

Secondly, how many of those Boeing Machinists are going to be retiring
over the next decade or two? My Plan is to find one of those "old timers",
learn everything I can, and then when he retires, "take over". And become
in turn "the old guy who knows a lot."
This is, in effect, what a guy I know did some twenty plus years ago:
realized there were two "old timers" who knew everything, and one was about
to retire. Lon latched onto the other and learned everything he could,
reading the manuals in the evening rather than going to the bars, and
asking questions during the day. He got the book learning, and the
experience. Two years before he retired, the boss asked him what it would
take to keep him on. Turned out to be a $5,000 motor for Lon's boat. This
is a guy the company wanted to keep. But he started out a known nothing
punk kid (even if he was thirty something) willing to defer gratification.

Now, I will grant, there is a lot of corporate short sightedness which
doesn't see the utility of assigning a new worker to an old worker to learn
everything the old guy knows before he retires. But then again, the common
business practice is the quarterly report. (the Bank of Sienna, Italy,
issues "annual" reports every five years. Has done so for over five
hundred years, so it must work.)
--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "Lane" lane (no spam) at
copperaccents dot com wrote back on Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:36:44 -0800 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
news:040320051042336734%


Seattle's problem is Boeing.
They have laid off so many machinists over the last few years that
there just aren't any machining jobs in the whle Northwest.
With no job prospects, there is little insentive for kids to go into
the field.
It is the same reason they shut down the Avionics program and the
Automation Controls program over the last 5 years.

The guys coming out of Boeing have many years of experience and kids
fresh out of school can't compete.

That is not entirely true. I see machinists jobs listed in the paper and the
internet job sites all the time here. They are looking for experienced CNC
people however, and I don't qualify. Its the age old saying that it is hard
to get experience if nobody will hire you to give you the experience.

Yep.
And three axis CNC experience isn't something you can "run up" in your
garage.
Well, maybe if you have a source for a three axis CNC machine "cheap".
:-)
--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "carl mciver"
wrote back on Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:21:50 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

"Machinists" is a general term for all the mechanics, electricians,
plumbers, etc that build the planes.

Don't forget the carpet installers. :-)

Name of the union, IAM, BTW. In order
to be a "real" machinist at Boeing, you have to go through an apprenticeship
which you really have to want in order to get it. I'm thinking about it,
but not willing to take a 25% pay cut in order to get better pay five years
down the road.

I would seriously consider it, if I worked for Boeing. But then again,
I'm single, so ...

To a certain degree, you're right, though. When Boeing ramps back up,
like now, the demand increases slightly, but with more and more work being
outsourced, jobs like these are less and less at The Lazy B. One thing that
I've noticed is that the Boeing folks tend to have a much tighter set of
tolerances than folks on the "outside" who've never had to work to such
precision. When I'm even cutting wood I'm thinking about 64th's!

Boeing isn't going to be "ramping up" manufacturing much, not in the
Seattle area. The work is also being outsourced, (I almost had a job with
a Boeing subcontractor - in Montana) along with management. Why do you
think headquarters moved to Chicago? Because they got tired of the grey
winter weather?

That new plant in Everett for the 7e7 is an "assembly plant". Parts
will be made all over, shipped to Everett, and "assembled" into aircraft.
Fortunately for Seattle and King COunty, they aren't as dependent on Boeing
for revenue streams. Unfortunately for Western Washington, the same
policies which lead Boeing to move headquarters and much operations, also
work for smaller operations.
--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

pyotr filipivich writes:

Other issues are the general perception that there is no demand for
machinists or other skilled workers: the US is a service based economy and
outsourceing everything that merely deals with real goods (like
transforming raw material into finished goods.)

A few years ago I read somewhere that the total number of jobs in
the skilled metal trades is still declining, but the number of
people entering those trades is declining *faster*, which causes
temporary labor shortages. But the decline continues.

There is a catch 22 at work here, there aren't enough machinists
available, so work is sent overseas, there aren't any jobs for machinists,
so why train to become one?

I'd be surprised if there weren't enough machinists around here
(Milwaukee). It sounds like Seattle is in a similar situation.
I think you could find people to train if the jobs were there.
A lot of tech schools were started for exactly that reason, back
when there were jobs to be had (now they're starting fly-by-night
computer schools for the same reason).

I just spent two and half years to complete the two year machine
technology program at Renton. [hey, I finished a four year bachelor's
program in six.] Now I'm ready to start the long road to competency, aka
"job experience". Ghods willing, I can get a journeyman's card in four
years, which will leave me fifteen years to build up a nest egg so that I
can retire at 70.

I'm just a few years younger than you, and I've considered doing
something like that. What makes you think those jobs will be
here for another 15 years?

(Someone else mentioned being able to work "anywhere in the
country"-- maybe part of the trick is to move to a city that's
not exporting jobs like crazy...)

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

Well it finally happened.
We are officially liquidating the Machine shop at South Seattle
Community College.

I know what is going on. When I left the 2 year 2 hour program I taught
in Industrial Electronics to a computer job and continue at the local
Community College a replacement came in the next year and lasted two weeks.
I spent the weekends for several weeks going over the inventory I had
that the Physics dept. wanted, the home electronics class and even the metal
shop wanted my heavy spot welder.. It was weird for me to go over the
inventory with friends from the school district and advising to take this
or that. Ten years of Federal impact funds built the program to be like
two others we were assigned to the State Department of Education head - directly
as a special program while other shop classes reported to several sub heads.

While I chose to leave, working 5 jobs at the time was to much for family support,
it was a painful period of time knowing the program I built was falling
apart.

This is during the upswing of electronics as I was teaching designers Solid state
conversion from tubes.

Hope all goes well.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

"carl mciver" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Machinists" is a general term for all the mechanics, electricians,
plumbers, etc that build the planes. Name of the union, IAM, BTW. In
order
to be a "real" machinist at Boeing, you have to go through an
apprenticeship
which you really have to want in order to get it. I'm thinking about it,
but not willing to take a 25% pay cut in order to get better pay five
years
down the road.


They just are all members of IAM is what they have in common--the
apprentice program really has little bearing.

During the time I was with Boeing, I held at least temporary union
classifications for lathes, milling machines, boring mill, grinding machine,
cnc multiple tool, machine cell operator, maintenance machinist, toolmaker
and probly a few more.

I never went through their apprentice program though--why should I .....that
would have meant substantial pay cut right at the get-go......

But does this all mean Im not *really* a machinist ???

--

SVL

--I passed a copy of your post to a pal who's bucking this trend.
He's mentoring a FIRST team at a high school on the SF Bay peninsula and
he's gotten them to improve the shop. He also sent along a link of what's
going on at MIT:
http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/ped...fab/fablab.htm
--And here's the root, one click back:
http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/


--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Blah blah blah blah
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : blah blah blah...
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

steamer wrote:

--I passed a copy of your post to a pal who's bucking this trend.
He's mentoring a FIRST team at a high school on the SF Bay peninsula and
he's gotten them to improve the shop. He also sent along a link of what's
going on at MIT:
http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/ped...fab/fablab.htm
--And here's the root, one click back:
http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/




The kids at Olin mentor a first team. The Olin C.of E. shop keeps
expanding. There is hope.

http://machineshop.olin.edu/

Kevin Gallimore

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

steamer wrote:

--I passed a copy of your post to a pal who's bucking this trend.
He's mentoring a FIRST team at a high school on the SF Bay peninsula and
he's gotten them to improve the shop. He also sent along a link of what's
going on at MIT:
http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/ped...fab/fablab.htm
--And here's the root, one click back:
http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/




The kids at Olin mentor a first team. The Olin C.of E. shop keeps
expanding. There is hope.

http://machineshop.olin.edu/

Kevin Gallimore

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote back on Sat, 5 Mar 2005 23:46:52
-0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

"carl mciver" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Machinists" is a general term for all the mechanics, electricians,
plumbers, etc that build the planes. Name of the union, IAM, BTW. In
order to be a "real" machinist at Boeing, you have to go through an
apprenticeship which you really have to want in order to get it. I'm
thinking about it, but not willing to take a 25% pay cut in order to get better pay five
years down the road.


They just are all members of IAM is what they have in common--the
apprentice program really has little bearing.

During the time I was with Boeing, I held at least temporary union
classifications for lathes, milling machines, boring mill, grinding machine,
cnc multiple tool, machine cell operator, maintenance machinist, toolmaker
and probly a few more.

I never went through their apprentice program though--why should I .....that
would have meant substantial pay cut right at the get-go......

But does this all mean Im not *really* a machinist ???

Ummm, take it up with either the union or management, which ever you
think will get you the answer you want. :-)

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show (Ron
Bean) wrote back on Sat, 05 Mar 2005 19:15:13 -0000 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

pyotr filipivich writes:

Other issues are the general perception that there is no demand for
machinists or other skilled workers: the US is a service based economy and
outsourceing everything that merely deals with real goods (like
transforming raw material into finished goods.)

A few years ago I read somewhere that the total number of jobs in
the skilled metal trades is still declining, but the number of
people entering those trades is declining *faster*, which causes
temporary labor shortages. But the decline continues.

There is a catch 22 at work here, there aren't enough machinists
available, so work is sent overseas, there aren't any jobs for machinists,
so why train to become one?

I'd be surprised if there weren't enough machinists around here
(Milwaukee). It sounds like Seattle is in a similar situation.
I think you could find people to train if the jobs were there.
A lot of tech schools were started for exactly that reason, back
when there were jobs to be had (now they're starting fly-by-night
computer schools for the same reason).

I just spent two and half years to complete the two year machine
technology program at Renton. [hey, I finished a four year bachelor's
program in six.] Now I'm ready to start the long road to competency, aka
"job experience". Ghods willing, I can get a journeyman's card in four
years, which will leave me fifteen years to build up a nest egg so that I
can retire at 70.

I'm just a few years younger than you, and I've considered doing
something like that. What makes you think those jobs will be
here for another 15 years?

Well, if the number of applicants is declining faster than the number
of jobs ... it is still favors those who are applying.

That the trend over all is bad for the country is anther story.

(Someone else mentioned being able to work "anywhere in the
country"-- maybe part of the trick is to move to a city that's
not exporting jobs like crazy...)

Doing that. Plan A is to leverage this job into the next one, and
that in a "better" location.

Plan B is to win the lottery.


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote back on Sat, 5 Mar 2005 23:46:52
-0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

"carl mciver" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Machinists" is a general term for all the mechanics, electricians,
plumbers, etc that build the planes. Name of the union, IAM, BTW. In
order to be a "real" machinist at Boeing, you have to go through an
apprenticeship which you really have to want in order to get it. I'm
thinking about it, but not willing to take a 25% pay cut in order to
get better pay five
years down the road.


They just are all members of IAM is what they have in common--the
apprentice program really has little bearing.

During the time I was with Boeing, I held at least temporary union
classifications for lathes, milling machines, boring mill, grinding
machine,
cnc multiple tool, machine cell operator, maintenance machinist,
toolmaker
and probly a few more.

I never went through their apprentice program though--why should I
......that
would have meant substantial pay cut right at the get-go......

But does this all mean Im not *really* a machinist ???

Ummm, take it up with either the union or management, which ever you
think will get you the answer you want. :-)


Perhaps you missed the part about how I "was with Boeing"--something was
rotten in Denmark, and so I bailed...

Seldom do I look back......

===

But I see they've sacked yet another CEO as of just today--while that's a
good sign, sadly it's only a drop in the bucket.......

If and when they've finally turned over the entire executive board, and
fired about 75% of their management ranks I might have some ( minor )
regrets over walking outa the place....

--

SVL

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote back on Mon, 7 Mar 2005 09:11:01
-0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

During the time I was with Boeing, I held at least temporary union
classifications for lathes, milling machines, boring mill, grinding
machine,
cnc multiple tool, machine cell operator, maintenance machinist,
toolmaker
and probly a few more.

I never went through their apprentice program though--why should I
.....that
would have meant substantial pay cut right at the get-go......

But does this all mean Im not *really* a machinist ???

Ummm, take it up with either the union or management, which ever you
think will get you the answer you want. :-)


Perhaps you missed the part about how I "was with Boeing"

Looks like I did. My goof.

--something was rotten in Denmark, and so I bailed...

Before Condit or Stonecipher? Yee gads, that is a company with
internal problems.

Seldom do I look back......

Same here. Unless I'm in reverse. Then it is a good idea.



--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote back on Mon, 7 Mar 2005 09:11:01

Perhaps you missed the part about how I "was with Boeing"

Looks like I did. My goof.

--something was rotten in Denmark, and so I bailed...

Before Condit or Stonecipher? Yee gads, that is a company with
internal problems.


Left not too long after Stonecipher....

Harry Stonecipher pretty much singlehandedly ran Mcdonnel Douglas to the
brink of bankrupsy.....for no reason other than to arrogantly line his and
his freind's pockets....with complete and utter disregard as to the costs to
society...

And then Boeing bought the place....and they placed that rich, pompous
asshole onto the board of directors ???

If it were up to me he would have been taken out back and shot.....

--

SVL

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote back on Mon, 7 Mar 2005 09:11:01

Perhaps you missed the part about how I "was with Boeing"

Looks like I did. My goof.

--something was rotten in Denmark, and so I bailed...

Before Condit or Stonecipher? Yee gads, that is a company with
internal problems.


Left not too long after Stonecipher....

Harry Stonecipher pretty much singlehandedly ran Mcdonnel Douglas to the
brink of bankrupsy.....for no reason other than to arrogantly line his and
his freind's pockets....with complete and utter disregard as to the costs
to
society...

And then Boeing bought the place....and they placed that rich, pompous
asshole onto the board of directors ???

If it were up to me he would have been taken out back and shot.....

--

SVL


Fortunately for us, he seems to have done it himself. Everytime he and
his buddies get caught with something, we end up having to take more
"ethics training" -- this time it looks like "zippergate" has got him (I
guess
he got it caught in the zipper ??).

mikey

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote back on Tue, 8 Mar 2005 19:45:58
-0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote back on Mon, 7 Mar 2005 09:11:01

Perhaps you missed the part about how I "was with Boeing"

Looks like I did. My goof.

--something was rotten in Denmark, and so I bailed...

Before Condit or Stonecipher? Yee gads, that is a company with
internal problems.


Left not too long after Stonecipher....

Harry Stonecipher pretty much singlehandedly ran Mcdonnel Douglas to the
brink of bankrupsy.....for no reason other than to arrogantly line his and
his freind's pockets....with complete and utter disregard as to the costs to
society...

And then Boeing bought the place....and they placed that rich, pompous
asshole onto the board of directors ???

If it were up to me he would have been taken out back and shot.....

"I blame the legislature ..."


tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."