For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

--Good one! That first guy was something of a damn fool not to put
out stabilizers...

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : There's more than one way
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : to measure security...
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

"Sunworshipper" wrote: Looks like the out-rigger / stabilizer slipped off
of the rock. What is the truck gushing out right behind that out-rigger on
its way down?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I will guess that this was the scenario: The boom was just a little too
short to get over the fallen car, so the operator placed his outrigger very
close to the edge. As the car came out of the water its full weight caused
the crane-truck to lean, making the outrigger slip off.

I'll bet the gushing liquid is diesel fuel.

Yep,

I was almost expecting to see the last pic showing the bigger rig going
in the drink when they tried to pick up the first truck.

jim rozen wrote:
For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html

Jim

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:24:30 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote: Looks like the out-rigger / stabilizer slipped off
of the rock. What is the truck gushing out right behind that out-rigger on
its way down?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I will guess that this was the scenario: The boom was just a little too
short to get over the fallen car, so the operator placed his outrigger very
close to the edge. As the car came out of the water its full weight caused
the crane-truck to lean, making the outrigger slip off.

I'll bet the gushing liquid is diesel fuel.


We were discussing this on the UK model engineering newsgroup, I think the fuel
tank ruptured against the gray handrail on the quay side as the truck went over.

Peter

On 19 Nov 2004 08:41:18 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html

Jim
LOL!

To quote grandfather in "Little Big Man" "Some days the magic works
and some days it doesn't."

--RC

Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:32:39 GMT, RoyJ wrote:

Yep,

I was almost expecting to see the last pic showing the bigger rig going
in the drink when they tried to pick up the first truck.

jim rozen wrote:
For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html

Jim

We think the truck registrations are Galway in Ireland.

The second truck is the proper tool for the job, given that the first truck was
seriously misused.

Petr

jim rozen wrote:
For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html

Jim



Thanks for giving me a big laugh to end what has been a rather ****e
full Friday.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

It looks like the first trouck *could* have done the job if the operator
had a little more sense. It seems like the boom had enough capacity,
other wise an overload check should have stopped it from lifting. I
think if the truck had been backed up so the rear tires were a few feet
from the edge and the heavy front of the truck was oposite the lift it
would have worked. Probably need a couple ropes to the car being lifted
to keep it parallel to the wall.

Pete C.


Peter A Forbes wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:32:39 GMT, RoyJ wrote:

Yep,

I was almost expecting to see the last pic showing the bigger rig going
in the drink when they tried to pick up the first truck.

jim rozen wrote:
For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html

Jim

We think the truck registrations are Galway in Ireland.

The second truck is the proper tool for the job, given that the first truck was
seriously misused.

Petr

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"Sunworshipper" wrote: Looks like the out-rigger / stabilizer slipped
off of the rock. What is the truck gushing out right behind that
out-rigger on its way down?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I will guess that this was the scenario: The boom was just a little too
short to get over the fallen car, so the operator placed his outrigger
very close to the edge. As the car came out of the water its full weight
caused the crane-truck to lean, making the outrigger slip off.

I'll bet the gushing liquid is diesel fuel.



I think the liquid has a yellowish tinge and may well be from when the
operator ****ed himself while going over the edge.

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:37:33 +0000 (UTC), Peter A Forbes
calmly ranted:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:24:30 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:
I'll bet the gushing liquid is diesel fuel.

We were discussing this on the UK model engineering newsgroup, I think the fuel
tank ruptured against the gray handrail on the quay side as the truck went over.

I didn't see any fuel discoloration (rainbows) in the water to
indicate any fuel or oil spill in any of those pics, though.
Maybe it was the guy standing on the truck with the control
box who lost his water. Hmmm...no, not yellow enough. g


-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --

My read on this is that the wall gave way. Look where the outrigger was
placed and then in the picture next isn't there a large piece of the wall
missing where the outrigger was resting?
lg
no neat sig line

"Peter A Forbes" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:24:30 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"

wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote: Looks like the out-rigger / stabilizer slipped
off
of the rock. What is the truck gushing out right behind that out-rigger on
its way down?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I will guess that this was the scenario: The boom was just a little too
short to get over the fallen car, so the operator placed his outrigger
very
close to the edge. As the car came out of the water its full weight
caused
the crane-truck to lean, making the outrigger slip off.

I'll bet the gushing liquid is diesel fuel.


We were discussing this on the UK model engineering newsgroup, I think the
fuel
tank ruptured against the gray handrail on the quay side as the truck went
over.

Peter

Steve Peterson wrote:
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"Sunworshipper" wrote: Looks like the out-rigger / stabilizer
slipped off of the rock. What is the truck gushing out right behind
that out-rigger on its way down?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I will guess that this was the scenario: The boom was just a little
too short to get over the fallen car, so the operator placed his
outrigger very close to the edge. As the car came out of the water
its full weight caused the crane-truck to lean, making the outrigger
slip off. I'll bet the gushing liquid is diesel fuel.



I think the liquid has a yellowish tinge and may well be from when the
operator ****ed himself while going over the edge.
My take is the 'spillage' is actually a splash coming *up*.
Ken.

--
http://www.rupert.net/~solar
Return address supplied by 'spammotel'
http://www.spammotel.com

guess the size of your tool really does matter?

I tried to see if there were other interesting pages on that web site, but
it looks like the owner really does not want viewers!
http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com


"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
It looks like the first trouck *could* have done the job if the operator
had a little more sense. It seems like the boom had enough capacity,
other wise an overload check should have stopped it from lifting. I
think if the truck had been backed up so the rear tires were a few feet
from the edge and the heavy front of the truck was oposite the lift it
would have worked. Probably need a couple ropes to the car being lifted
to keep it parallel to the wall.

Pete C.

Lifting sideways is not good when you're near capacity.

On 20 Nov 2004 01:29:11 GMT, (GMasterman) calmly
ranted:

guess the size of your tool really does matter?

Nope, it's the way you use it. EVERY time.


-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:37:33 +0000 (UTC), Peter A Forbes
calmly ranted:
Maybe it was the guy standing on the truck with the control
box who lost his water. Hmmm...no, not yellow enough. g


-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --



It's Irishmen. How yellow is yours after 7 or 8 beers?

Garrett Fulton




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Especially not with the tiny outriggers the first truck had. I'd avoid
all but the lightest side lifts with outriggers like that.

Pete C.


ATP wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
It looks like the first trouck *could* have done the job if the operator
had a little more sense. It seems like the boom had enough capacity,
other wise an overload check should have stopped it from lifting. I
think if the truck had been backed up so the rear tires were a few feet
from the edge and the heavy front of the truck was oposite the lift it
would have worked. Probably need a couple ropes to the car being lifted
to keep it parallel to the wall.

Pete C.

Lifting sideways is not good when you're near capacity.

Greetings and Salutations..

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:24:30 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote: Looks like the out-rigger / stabilizer slipped off
of the rock. What is the truck gushing out right behind that out-rigger on
its way down?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I will guess that this was the scenario: The boom was just a little too
short to get over the fallen car, so the operator placed his outrigger very
close to the edge. As the car came out of the water its full weight caused
the crane-truck to lean, making the outrigger slip off.

I'll bet the gushing liquid is diesel fuel.


That is a great sequence, and, I am going to post it at
the shop, as yet another example of watching out. The fact that
we just put in some overhead cranes will make the images
all the more effective.
However, as to the fountain below the pole-vaulting
crane in the 4th picture....Look closely at the car. It has
fallen kind of sideways into the drink (again), and, I suspect
that the fountain is actually a blow of water vapor coming up
through the engine compartment, and being focused by the
sprung and twisted hood.
I was kind of amused by the fact that the guy in the
gray shirt, "supervising" next to the red-shirted operator
totally vanished between the 3d and 4th frames. He apparently
decided that he was a bit TOO close to the flipping truck.
I also kind of admire the photographer, for gettting
such a good shot of the flipping truck in mid-fall. That
is great timing!
Regards
Dave Mundt

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:48:20 -0800, "larry g"
wrote:
"Peter A Forbes" wrote in message
.. .

We were discussing this on the UK model engineering newsgroup, I think
the fuel tank ruptured against the gray handrail on the quay side as
the truck went over.

My read on this is that the wall gave way. Look where the outrigger was
placed and then in the picture next isn't there a large piece of the wall
missing where the outrigger was resting?

Disclaimer: I am not a rigger. But I have a working knowledge of
physics... I can look at things and just know it's not gonna work,
I'm not ashamed to tell someone that something about their set-up
doesn't look right before the disaster, and can decide how far back is
a safe place to watch from because I've been right before... ;-)

What looks like an outrigger in the third picture, and the angular
device in Picture 4 between the first truck's rear tires and the guy
in the red sweater and blue pants is /not/ the outrigger. That gray
arch with squared-off corners looks like a handrail and lead-out for a
ladder going down the quay wall - the dark streak going down the wall
is either the ladder itself or a slot in the wall that the ladder is
placed in.

(Logical. I would make a ladder recessed into a slot in the wall so
a larger ship doesn't wipe it out when it hits it.)

And if that handrail was built sturdy enough (well sucker pipe?), it
would have easily survived the first truck going over the top, and
probably been the item that punctured the truck's fuel tank as it went
by. (Note the diesel fuel splash on the ground around that railing.)

Look closely at picture 4 as the truck is in mid-roll - the first
truck's outrigger is clearly visible below the front tire (visible
against the bow of the orange Rigid Hull Inflatable boat in the water)
and wasn't set out very far from the truck at all considering the load
and reach involved.

The load-side outrigger is out maybe two feet, and the far-side
outrigger wasn't extended or set at all... STUPID!!

If the first truck had both outriggers set out to the full extension
point, even if they had to back the truck up a bit to extend them, we
wouldn't be having this discussion. If the driver had seen the far
side outrigger unloading and lifting up off the ground, that would
have been a big screaming clue that he's in serious trouble...

In picture 3, you can see the first truck's front left tire is
almost off the ground - just from the sensation of the truck tilting,
that should have had the crane operator either dropping the load right
back in the water, or sucking in the boom reach in FAST to get the
load back within the capacity of the machine...

So he slams the car up against the quay wall and does body damage to
it, big effing deal, it's totaled anyway. After a full submersion for
any time (especially in salt water) that car is "parts". It will
never be a reliable non-smelly driver unless the insurance company or
owner spends more than it's worth totally stripping and restoring it.
The crane operator is just getting some "hazard to navigation" trash
out of the water.

Notice that the second (green) crane truck is sitting a lot further
back from the water with the outriggers extended on both sides, and
out all the way on the water side, to give him much more leverage on
the pick.

Conclusions: Read and follow the instructions for the crane at
least once in a while, and check your loading vs. angle and reach
charts before starting a pick.

If you have a crane scale, read it - if it starts going into the
red, put the load back down and re-rig. (I've seen some newer cranes
that are all wired with sensors and a small computer - so it knows all
the boom angles and extensions and the load line weight, and it'll set
off alarms and stop the pick automatically.

(Nifty little device - We ordered a small crane to pick and replace
a concrete fountain bowl and stand so we could fix the wiring
underneath it, and the small crane was busy so they had to send a far
heavier unit. [Think the big green monster in the last photos versus
the first one...] Since the computer scale said the heavier bowl was
only a 350-pound pick at 20' out, they could charge the lower rate.)

And water is darned heavy, raise it slowly so the car can drain.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Any car that has sunk in the water has a bit more weight to it when she
comes up, the truck operator may not have acounted for all the "extra
weight".
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:48:20 -0800, "larry g"
wrote:
"Peter A Forbes" wrote in message
. ..

We were discussing this on the UK model engineering newsgroup, I think
the fuel tank ruptured against the gray handrail on the quay side as
the truck went over.

My read on this is that the wall gave way. Look where the outrigger was
placed and then in the picture next isn't there a large piece of the wall
missing where the outrigger was resting?

Disclaimer: I am not a rigger. But I have a working knowledge of
physics... I can look at things and just know it's not gonna work,
I'm not ashamed to tell someone that something about their set-up
doesn't look right before the disaster, and can decide how far back is
a safe place to watch from because I've been right before... ;-)

What looks like an outrigger in the third picture, and the angular
device in Picture 4 between the first truck's rear tires and the guy
in the red sweater and blue pants is /not/ the outrigger. That gray
arch with squared-off corners looks like a handrail and lead-out for a
ladder going down the quay wall - the dark streak going down the wall
is either the ladder itself or a slot in the wall that the ladder is
placed in.

(Logical. I would make a ladder recessed into a slot in the wall so
a larger ship doesn't wipe it out when it hits it.)

And if that handrail was built sturdy enough (well sucker pipe?), it
would have easily survived the first truck going over the top, and
probably been the item that punctured the truck's fuel tank as it went
by. (Note the diesel fuel splash on the ground around that railing.)

Look closely at picture 4 as the truck is in mid-roll - the first
truck's outrigger is clearly visible below the front tire (visible
against the bow of the orange Rigid Hull Inflatable boat in the water)
and wasn't set out very far from the truck at all considering the load
and reach involved.

The load-side outrigger is out maybe two feet, and the far-side
outrigger wasn't extended or set at all... STUPID!!

If the first truck had both outriggers set out to the full extension
point, even if they had to back the truck up a bit to extend them, we
wouldn't be having this discussion. If the driver had seen the far
side outrigger unloading and lifting up off the ground, that would
have been a big screaming clue that he's in serious trouble...

In picture 3, you can see the first truck's front left tire is
almost off the ground - just from the sensation of the truck tilting,
that should have had the crane operator either dropping the load right
back in the water, or sucking in the boom reach in FAST to get the
load back within the capacity of the machine...

So he slams the car up against the quay wall and does body damage to
it, big effing deal, it's totaled anyway. After a full submersion for
any time (especially in salt water) that car is "parts". It will
never be a reliable non-smelly driver unless the insurance company or
owner spends more than it's worth totally stripping and restoring it.
The crane operator is just getting some "hazard to navigation" trash
out of the water.

Notice that the second (green) crane truck is sitting a lot further
back from the water with the outriggers extended on both sides, and
out all the way on the water side, to give him much more leverage on
the pick.

Conclusions: Read and follow the instructions for the crane at
least once in a while, and check your loading vs. angle and reach
charts before starting a pick.

If you have a crane scale, read it - if it starts going into the
red, put the load back down and re-rig. (I've seen some newer cranes
that are all wired with sensors and a small computer - so it knows all
the boom angles and extensions and the load line weight, and it'll set
off alarms and stop the pick automatically.

(Nifty little device - We ordered a small crane to pick and replace
a concrete fountain bowl and stand so we could fix the wiring
underneath it, and the small crane was busy so they had to send a far
heavier unit. [Think the big green monster in the last photos versus
the first one...] Since the computer scale said the heavier bowl was
only a 350-pound pick at 20' out, they could charge the lower rate.)

And water is darned heavy, raise it slowly so the car can drain.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

I noticed that,, too hmmm


On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:34:41 -0500, "The Tagge's"
wrote:

I tried to see if there were other interesting pages on that web site, but
it looks like the owner really does not want viewers!
http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com


"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Roger wrote:
I noticed that,, too hmmm


On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:34:41 -0500, "The Tagge's"
wrote:


I tried to see if there were other interesting pages on that web site, but
it looks like the owner really does not want viewers!
http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com


snipped

Yes, I did the same, and from the style of the salutation I received on
my screen, I'll go along with it probably being an Irish thing.

Who was it who said that the Irish are the only people in the world who
can cut their throats with their own tongues?

(Just kidding)

But a WHOIS on that URL didn't get me very far. The most I found out was
that "monkeyup.com" was registered by TUCOWS in Louisiana.

That's as far as my limited expertise with such things got me. It'd be
informative to have someone with "the right stuff" tell me how to dig
deeper into that.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

In article , Don Murray
says...

So, what I think happened is that his load shifted. You see the way the
sling goes through the 2 doors, I think it slid to the back side
windows, causing a shock load, tipping the crane over.

Interesting theory. The second pick by the green crane supports it,
because it's obvious the car wants to be nose-heavy and the sling
wants to slide back as far as it can, to the rear of the front windows.

So the sequence of events might be: load is tail-heavy from all the
water in the passenger compartment, and the slings (which are rigged
midway in the windows or even a bit to the front) are heavily loaded
and stable in position. As the water runs out, the car becomes
more and more nose heavy, and lighter as well. Eventually the
friction of the sling on the metal is not enough to keep them
in place, and the car drops into a nose-down attitude. That in and
of itself won't make the crane tip because the net load is the
same - but as you say, the shock of the slings coming up hard
on the pillars could be enough if the crane were right at the
hairy edge.

I don't think the stones at the edge of teh quay gave away,
and I do wonder what happened to one of the men at the front of
the crane, who's gone after the splash - the one wearing
a blue jacket and tan trousers.

The people in the shots move around a *lot* between the third
and fourth (4th being the tipover) shots which implies to me
that either they realized that something was going on, and
all moved back, or that the entire tipover happened in slow
motion. I bet there could have been a shot of the crane
on its side, teetering on the edge, if the cameraman had
owned a slightly faster camera!

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Dave Mundt says...

However, as to the fountain below the pole-vaulting
crane in the 4th picture....Look closely at the car. It has
fallen kind of sideways into the drink (again), and, I suspect
that the fountain is actually a blow of water vapor coming up
through the engine compartment, and being focused by the
sprung and twisted hood.

There's no hood back there - and the color is wrong. I think
the fuel tank was ruptured during the slide across the
stone wall edge.

I was kind of amused by the fact that the guy in the
gray shirt, "supervising" next to the red-shirted operator
totally vanished between the 3d and 4th frames. He apparently
decided that he was a bit TOO close to the flipping truck.

Yes, I noticed that - though I thought his jacket was blue
instead of gray. Sort of blue-gray. But he comes sauntering
back from stage right after the fact.

What bothers me a bit is, where are the controls for that
boom? There had to be an operator, and I cannot see him
on the landward side of the crane, so I suspect the
hydraulic controls are on the sea side. And I didn't
see anyone go in the drink - so he must have had time to
get away.

My suspicion is he's the guy closes to the edge, wearing
all dark (brown/black) clothes, peering over the edge in
disbelief. I bet I know what he's saying, too....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I found another web site with same pictures only a little bigger.

http://zattevrienden.realroot.be/depanneren.htm

Lane

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:48:26 GMT, Don Murray
calmly ranted:

If you look at the first picture you'll see the boom has 2 sections of
extension. In the second picture, he still has about 2 feet of extension
out and the car at the water line. In the third picture his extension is
all the way in and he is losing weight fast with the water running out
of the car. It's at this point that I'll have to give the operator the
benefit of the doubt and assume that he didn't run those extensions back
out and overextend his load.

So, what I think happened is that his load shifted. You see the way the
sling goes through the 2 doors, I think it slid to the back side
windows, causing a shock load, tipping the crane over.

No, in the 3rd pic, there is very little water coming out and
the door is open.

It appears that that mooring rail (I believe it's not a stairway
railing) pulled the filler neck or hose off the fuel tank and
that's the gusher in the 4th shot.

It took a Volvo driver to fix a Mercenary's Bends screwup.


-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:16:20 -0800, "Lane"
lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com calmly ranted:

I found another web site with same pictures only a little bigger.

http://zattevrienden.realroot.be/depanneren.htm

Both sets are 640x480, Lane. The Belgian set is centered, tho.
I'll bet that MB rigger wished it was all an optical illusion.


-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 06:22:18 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:48:20 -0800, "larry g"
wrote:
"Peter A Forbes" wrote in message
. ..

We were discussing this on the UK model engineering newsgroup, I think
the fuel tank ruptured against the gray handrail on the quay side as
the truck went over.

My read on this is that the wall gave way. Look where the outrigger was
placed and then in the picture next isn't there a large piece of the wall
missing where the outrigger was resting?

Disclaimer: I am not a rigger. But I have a working knowledge of
physics... I can look at things and just know it's not gonna work,
I'm not ashamed to tell someone that something about their set-up
doesn't look right before the disaster, and can decide how far back is
a safe place to watch from because I've been right before... ;-)

What looks like an outrigger in the third picture, and the angular
device in Picture 4 between the first truck's rear tires and the guy
in the red sweater and blue pants is /not/ the outrigger. That gray
arch with squared-off corners looks like a handrail and lead-out for a
ladder going down the quay wall - the dark streak going down the wall
is either the ladder itself or a slot in the wall that the ladder is
placed in.

Your right , must be a ladder cause it would be in front of the guy's
jeans around where the dog is on the third picture.


(Logical. I would make a ladder recessed into a slot in the wall so
a larger ship doesn't wipe it out when it hits it.)

And if that handrail was built sturdy enough (well sucker pipe?), it
would have easily survived the first truck going over the top, and
probably been the item that punctured the truck's fuel tank as it went
by. (Note the diesel fuel splash on the ground around that railing.)

Look closely at picture 4 as the truck is in mid-roll - the first
truck's outrigger is clearly visible below the front tire (visible
against the bow of the orange Rigid Hull Inflatable boat in the water)
and wasn't set out very far from the truck at all considering the load
and reach involved.

The load-side outrigger is out maybe two feet, and the far-side
outrigger wasn't extended or set at all... STUPID!!

If the first truck had both outriggers set out to the full extension
point, even if they had to back the truck up a bit to extend them, we
wouldn't be having this discussion. If the driver had seen the far
side outrigger unloading and lifting up off the ground, that would
have been a big screaming clue that he's in serious trouble...

In picture 3, you can see the first truck's front left tire is
almost off the ground - just from the sensation of the truck tilting,
that should have had the crane operator either dropping the load right
back in the water, or sucking in the boom reach in FAST to get the
load back within the capacity of the machine...

So he slams the car up against the quay wall and does body damage to
it, big effing deal, it's totaled anyway. After a full submersion for
any time (especially in salt water) that car is "parts". It will
never be a reliable non-smelly driver unless the insurance company or
owner spends more than it's worth totally stripping and restoring it.
The crane operator is just getting some "hazard to navigation" trash
out of the water.

Notice that the second (green) crane truck is sitting a lot further
back from the water with the outriggers extended on both sides, and
out all the way on the water side, to give him much more leverage on
the pick.

Conclusions: Read and follow the instructions for the crane at
least once in a while, and check your loading vs. angle and reach
charts before starting a pick.

If you have a crane scale, read it - if it starts going into the
red, put the load back down and re-rig. (I've seen some newer cranes
that are all wired with sensors and a small computer - so it knows all
the boom angles and extensions and the load line weight, and it'll set
off alarms and stop the pick automatically.

(Nifty little device - We ordered a small crane to pick and replace
a concrete fountain bowl and stand so we could fix the wiring
underneath it, and the small crane was busy so they had to send a far
heavier unit. [Think the big green monster in the last photos versus
the first one...] Since the computer scale said the heavier bowl was
only a 350-pound pick at 20' out, they could charge the lower rate.)

And water is darned heavy, raise it slowly so the car can drain.

-- Bruce --

I missed this. Will someone please post the original link? I saw a picture
of a car in the water, and a boom truck at dockside, but can't make very
much of the situation.

Steve

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
A repeat of the link in case someone lost it:
http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages...com/Ooops.html


First, let me say that I ran a 30 ton crane on an oilfield drilling platform
in the Gulf of Mexico for three years. I have also run Grove cranes and P&H
cranes up to 12.5 tons on land. I am Offshore Petroleum Institute certified
as a rigger, and have had a lot of rigging experience.

What happened here is gross stupidity on the part of the operator, and not a
lot on the part of the rigger. Except if the operator was the rigger. The
thing should have been rigged with the strap to the rear of the window.

I see two things. One, the crane used to pick up the original car is
undersized. It looks like the hoist is one intended to hoist industrial
size tires. Second, he is extended out too far, and the leverage is there
to overturn the vehicle. Also, the stabilizers out all the way, but the
load exceeds the limit of the boom angle. I would bet a weeks pay that if
you looked at the load chart, the weight of the load and the distance out to
the load would have exceeded the limitations of the lift truck.

In frame one, it is obvious to see that the car is outside the lifting
radius of the crane, that is the lifting point is not at least directly
above the car. Side loading a crane is a NO NO (caps intentional) to any
experienced crane operator. (It's done all the time in the real world, but
not to this degree.) The car must be first drug to the crane. I also agree
with the other fellow's observation that the lifting sling probably shifted
back. This is another MISTAKE on the part of the rigger or operator.

In frame two, the truck lists a good ways towards the load. That would have
been the time to set it down, and go get a bigger truck.

Also, notice the yellow box in front of the crane. Where was the operator
going to land the car? The box looks like it is in the way to me, and he
can't swing it rearward because there is not enough boom. I also wonder if
any of those stupid assed people standing next to the truck were smashed by
the truck or knocked in the water. When something like that is going on,
the best place to watch from is a place of safety, and there are obviously
MANY unsafe stupid people in the picture.

Now, here comes the green truck with adequate lifting ability and longer
stabilizers. And the people get the hell out of the way. It plucks it
right out of the water, and hardly twists. You will notice that he does not
need to set up right at the edge of the quay because he has adequate boom
length, stabilization, and lifting capacity.

If you will notice the next to last frame and last frame, they will show you
how flimsy a truck was used in the first lift. Very little in the way of
frame, counterweight, or stabilizers. A tiny, tiny boom.

This was either an inexperienced operator or rigger, or operator/rigger.
And you see what happened. I wonder what the cost difference was between
the way they ended up doing it, and just getting the right truck in the
first place. Probably a few bucks.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...

A repeat of the link in case someone lost it:
http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages...com/Ooops.html

Snip


Also, notice the yellow box in front of the crane. Where was the operator
going to land the car? The box looks like it is in the way to me, and he
can't swing it rearward because there is not enough boom.

My take is that the original truck is a flat bed vehicle recovery truck
and if he had managed to get the wreck clear of the quay he would have
placed it on the flat bed to the rear of the boom.

The entire bed is able to be lowered to the rear of the truck in order
to drive vehicles onto it (the hydraulic ram is visible in the last two
frames).

If you look in the background of the final two frames you can see the
white wreck sitting on an almost identical truck.

--
Larry Green

SNIP

What bothers me a bit is, where are the controls for that
boom? There had to be an operator, and I cannot see him
on the landward side of the crane, so I suspect the
hydraulic controls are on the sea side. And I didn't
see anyone go in the drink - so he must have had time to
get away.

My suspicion is he's the guy closes to the edge, wearing
all dark (brown/black) clothes, peering over the edge in
disbelief. I bet I know what he's saying, too....

Jim
I recently had a machine moved by a boom truck. The operator had a
wireless remote control that was suspended from straps so that the
whole thing was worn like a vest. The joystick etc. were resting on
his stomach and he was able to walk all around as the load was moved.
And more important was able to stay well away from anything that might
hurt somebody.
ERS

I don't think the stones at the edge of teh quay gave away,
and I do wonder what happened to one of the men at the front of
the crane, who's gone after the splash - the one wearing
a blue jacket and tan trousers.

He comes walking back into view about two frames later - I think he
cautiously sprinted out of Dodge while the guy in the red cap just
turned and ducked :-).

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames carl.ijames at verizon.net

In article , Bruce L. Bergman
says...

It's possible, but it looks like the sling is at the windshield when
the car hits the water for the second time -

Don't think so - it's tough to make out, but I think that
the sling really is hard to the rear.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Palfinger and related type booms always fascinate me.

We have a grove TM12T, and I enjoy operationg it, but always err on the side
of caution.
When setting up on soft ground, I always build cribbing into pads that are 3
x 3 feet.
Seeing the amount of list that one pic shows, the operator had to know this
was inevitable.




"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article ,
Larry Green wrote:
SteveB wrote:

[ ... ]

Also, notice the yellow box in front of the crane. Where was the operator
going to land the car? The box looks like it is in the way to me, and he
can't swing it rearward because there is not enough boom.

My take is that the original truck is a flat bed vehicle recovery truck
and if he had managed to get the wreck clear of the quay he would have
placed it on the flat bed to the rear of the boom.

I agree. And the original pick was from to the front of the
truck, so there was less load to the side. Once he had it up above the
truck bed height, he started to swing it towards the flat bed at the
back, and that extended the load more to the side, (perhaps augmented
by the proposed slip of the sling) which toppled the truck and put the
white car back in the drink.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article ,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Roger wrote:
I noticed that,, too hmmm


On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:34:41 -0500, "The Tagge's"
wrote:


I tried to see if there were other interesting pages on that web site, but
it looks like the owner really does not want viewers!
http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com


snipped

Yes, I did the same, and from the style of the salutation I received on
my screen, I'll go along with it probably being an Irish thing.

[ ... ]

But a WHOIS on that URL didn't get me very far. The most I found out was
that "monkeyup.com" was registered by TUCOWS in Louisiana.

But that is a different registration from
"monkeyup.my-bulldog.com", which needs to be looked up under just the
last part -- my-bulldog.com, which gives:


================================================== ====================
Registrant:
Accessible Technologies Ltd
317 Lloyds court,
1 Goodmans Yard
London, UK E1 8AT
UK

Domain name: MY-BULLDOG.COM

Administrative Contact:
Choucair, Najib
317 Lloyds court,
1 Goodmans Yard
London, UK E1 8AT
UK
020 7953 1150

Registration Service Provider:
PIPEX Communications Hosting Ltd,
+44.115-917-0000
http://www.123-reg.co.uk/
This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords,
DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions.

Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 24-Nov-2003.
Record expires on 23-Apr-2005.
Record created on 23-Apr-2003.
================================================== ====================

There is another "monkeyup.com" which is in:


================================================== ====================
Registrant:
Javier Martinez
3270 Ellendale
Montreal, Quebec H3S 1w5
CA

Domain name: MONKEYUP.COM
================================================== ====================

Which has a :

"we provide multimedia/entertainment for your eye's"

message as its front page. (Yes, it really says "eye's" instead of
"eyes". :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message
...
I found another web site with same pictures only a little bigger.

http://zattevrienden.realroot.be/depanneren.htm

Lane

Now, is it me, or is the front left tire of the truck already off the
ground, or very nearly so? That would be the front left if you were sitting
in the truck. I think that would be a red flag.

To me, at least.

Steve