"Jon Grimm" wrote in message
news:eAPnd.2002$K36.1556@trndny03...
Palfinger and related type booms always fascinate me.

We have a grove TM12T, and I enjoy operationg it, but always err on the
side of caution.
When setting up on soft ground, I always build cribbing into pads that are
3 x 3 feet.
Seeing the amount of list that one pic shows, the operator had to know
this was inevitable.


And the second pic shows clearly the tire either about to come off the
ground, or already in the air.

Stve

Look picture to picture and see if you think those people who were standing
in the way of the truck went in the water. There is a guy in a tan shirt, a
blue jacket, and a red jacket that I don't see in the after picture.

I have hoisted a bunch of stuff, and it always amazes me at the absolutely
stupid places people will stand while you are doing it. Even those with
some experience in the field.

Steve

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Dave Mundt says...


However, as to the fountain below the pole-vaulting
crane in the 4th picture....Look closely at the car. It has
fallen kind of sideways into the drink (again), and, I suspect
that the fountain is actually a blow of water vapor coming up
through the engine compartment, and being focused by the
sprung and twisted hood.


There's no hood back there - and the color is wrong. I think
the fuel tank was ruptured during the slide across the
stone wall edge.


I was kind of amused by the fact that the guy in the
gray shirt, "supervising" next to the red-shirted operator
totally vanished between the 3d and 4th frames. He apparently
decided that he was a bit TOO close to the flipping truck.


Yes, I noticed that - though I thought his jacket was blue
instead of gray. Sort of blue-gray. But he comes sauntering
back from stage right after the fact.

What bothers me a bit is, where are the controls for that
boom? There had to be an operator, and I cannot see him
on the landward side of the crane, so I suspect the
hydraulic controls are on the sea side. And I didn't
see anyone go in the drink - so he must have had time to
get away.

My suspicion is he's the guy closes to the edge, wearing
all dark (brown/black) clothes, peering over the edge in
disbelief. I bet I know what he's saying, too....

Jim



If you blow it up, and find the figure who was closest to being pinned
by the rolling truck, the gent in the coveralls and red shirt,
he goes from being front and center looking at the hood of the
car, to way back behind the falling truck.

That took time. He had to run around the truck. It didn't overturn
that fast.

That reminds me of when we were having a cess pool blasted out. The blaster
suggested we hide behind the truck with him and his assistant, so we did.
Then my friend decides he's going to stand where he could see the blast from
what he considered was a safe distance, the side of the truck. He was fine,
but it would only take one little sliver of rock to get past the chained
together tires, they covered the blast with, to ruin your day.
Karl


"SteveB" wrote in message
news:4NRnd.151859$G15.41253@fed1read03...
Look picture to picture and see if you think those people who were
standing
in the way of the truck went in the water. There is a guy in a tan shirt,
a
blue jacket, and a red jacket that I don't see in the after picture.

I have hoisted a bunch of stuff, and it always amazes me at the absolutely
stupid places people will stand while you are doing it. Even those with
some experience in the field.

Steve




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jim rozen wrote:

In article , Don Murray
says...

So, what I think happened is that his load shifted. You see the way the
sling goes through the 2 doors, I think it slid to the back side
windows, causing a shock load, tipping the crane over.

Interesting theory. The second pick by the green crane supports it,
because it's obvious the car wants to be nose-heavy and the sling
wants to slide back as far as it can, to the rear of the front windows.


Naah, that's not it. Look at the fourth picture. See that dog on the
right? He was on the truck during the hoist . When he jumped off to
have a sniff around he unbalanced the whole thing and over she went.
Look at him standing there wagging his tail like nothing happened.
Looks like the guy in the red & black jacket is going over to kick his
ass.

--
Drew

"Karl Vorwerk" wrote in message
...
That reminds me of when we were having a cess pool blasted out. The
blaster
suggested we hide behind the truck with him and his assistant, so we did.
Then my friend decides he's going to stand where he could see the blast
from
what he considered was a safe distance, the side of the truck. He was
fine,
but it would only take one little sliver of rock to get past the chained
together tires, they covered the blast with, to ruin your day.
Karl

We had a chinaball tree taken down. Those have zillions of marble sized
hard balls on them. They had one of those huge chippers on the back of the
truck. There were about three men standing forward of the centerline when
they tossed in the first branch with chinaballs on them. ZING
..................... they went shooting like buckshot even though they had
it fed into a hopper. They all ducked and ran, all of them being hit by
balls at high velocity. They all stood behind the truck for the next salvo.

I was picking up chinaballs for weeks all around the cul-de-sac.

Funny how fast people move sometimes.

Steve

Oh, what a wonderful thread this is turning out to be

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages...com/Ooops.html

my question is dealing with the amount of twist in the first truck. While
it has been noted that the front right wheel is almost off the ground in
earlier photos, where it is flying off the quay the rear end is not in the
same plane as the front wheels. Did a rear outrigger collapse or puncture
through the ground? If so, why can I not find any shoring or other
platforms being used? Especially with the green unit, after the first
trouble?
The twist seems to be entirely gone (well as much as I can discern) after
the water bath, so it evidently was not to the plastic limit of twist!
Oh, and we know how the truck got into the water, how did the car get there?
From the dents on the front of the hood and the roof, it appears as though
it drove forward into the drink. Front glass is broken when being picked up
the the smaller rigger. If so, did it then rotate backward, to engine first
and sink, resting finally on it's tires? If not, when would it have been
righted?
Just wondering
Bert

The first truck did not have outriggers

Couldn't this mess have been avoided by *backing* the first crane to the wall,
then reaching rearwards?

Yes, I agree the car is parts. No way you risk your livelihood on pulling trash
from the water. Maybe he didn't let it drain well as it passed the
interface....

I would have *loved* to see the second crane go dunkers....

I remember once I had to get my cab hauled when I dropped a little old lady
near to her door on an icy hill in Herndon. No matter what I did, I crept
downslope so at some point I braked it and radioed in before I went over the
embankement turtle fashion. Of course, I don't drive for *them* any more.

Saved the cab, though...

Those were the days. Money changed hands every day. Drops in a bucket.


I tolerance everything and tolerate everyone.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Kimmie, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.
I fight terrorism by: Using less gasoline.

On 22 Nov 2004 11:18:01 GMT, (HaroldA102) wrote:


The first truck did not have outriggers

Look again at the pic where the truck is upside down. It's clearly
silhouetted against the gushing deisel fuel. Also in the pic before it
tips over the outrigger is planted on the seawall.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody...I should have been more specific..." - Lily Tomlin

Do you think that truck will work any more? Were was that??

HaroldA102 wrote:
Do you think that truck will work any more? Were was that??

If it was freshwater and there was no structural
failures in the engine, just drying it out and
purging the fuel system should get it going.

If if was sal****er, I would think that it would
never be the same. You'd have to wash everything
in freshwater first then carefully dry it out.
I would suspect it would be plagued with electrical
problems for the rest of it's life.

Of course, if the water ingestion bent rods or
cracked the head or damaged the mains, all bets
are off as well.

Hey Mike,

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:33:30 -0500, Mike Patterson
wrote:

On 22 Nov 2004 11:18:01 GMT, (HaroldA102) wrote:


The first truck did not have outriggers

Look again at the pic where the truck is upside down. It's clearly
silhouetted against the gushing deisel fuel.

If you say so, but it looks more like water than diesel to me

Also in the pic before it
tips over the outrigger is planted on the seawall.

Again if you say so, but I can see no indication of out-riggers. I do
see a series of what I would call "stanchions" spaced along both that
sea-wall and the one perpendicular, and possibly used as bull-heads
for the marine vessels to tie-up to. The one closest to the truck,
mid-way along the sea-wall, sure looks like an out-rigger at first
glance, but seeing the others makes me think not. Besides, it is
still there after the truck flips in. And surely if the vehicle had
outriggers, they would have been deployed, if for no other reason than
to keep the truck "level" on the sloping grade before even starting
work.



Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody...I should have been more specific..." - Lily Tomlin


Another thing that hasn't been discussed is that in the first pix, the
white car is upside down in the water, and I assume laying hard
aground. Sometime between that and pix 2, the car is righted. It is
hard to tell in pix 2 and 3 whether the roof was damaged from the
initial fall into the water, or whether the **** poor slinging/rigging
(with-out a spreader) is crushing the roof panel causing the strange
looking "widows peak" appearance of the front of the roof above the
windshield. I tried very hard to "see" the roof condition towards
the area near the hatch-back in these early photos, but it is
inconclusive to me as to whether or not it has sustained much damage
(which bears on my argument later).

It also seems to me that this first "recovery vehicle" does not have
a winch. (Even on the second truck, the winch is "boom mounted").
That means that all the work has to be done at "sling length" and
using the end of the boom. I suspect that the guy in the Zodiac
hooked the sling around one of the visible wheels and they first
"rolled" the car over, allowing the sling to then be placed around the
roof. This would also put the truck "out of position" for the events
following. I think that as the car was lifted clear of the water,
the truck was right at it's limit. Note the terrific twisting of the
frame. And I suspect that as the car got to near level with the dock,
the operator tried to "swing" the boom to get the car on the back
deck. Due to the truck not being level, ANY traverse motion, or worse
yet, quick stopping of the traverse motion, will put enormous side
loads on the boom and truck, and I suggest that this is what caused
the truck to "tip-over". I think that as the whole thing went over,
the car went into the water up-right, with the boom end coming down on
the roof near the rear hatch-back, and then as the car stopped its
descent and the truck continued, there would have been a rapid
re-orientation and alignment of the twisted frame, causing the truck
to spin and to literally do an action that is a cross or combination
between a high-jump and a pole-vault, right into the sea. Just the
motion of the now unfettered rear deck would have been a sight to get
on slow-motion camera!!

The real question to me is how the guy got a license, and how there
were no on-lookers swept over with it. Even with the second truck
about the only safe guy there is the cop!!

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

jim rozen wrote:

For your interest and edification, I present the following link:

http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html


WTF is there

All I get is what looks like a foreign language 404 on your URL or the
source.

HTML
HEAD
TITLEOOPS/TITLE
/HEAD
BODY
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/01.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/02.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/03.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/04.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/05.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/06.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/07.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/08.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/09.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/10.jpg"
/BODY
/HTML

Keep trying. Maybe use a different browser or a different computer. You'll
really want to see what is there.

"Terry Collins" wrote in message
...
jim rozen wrote:

For your interest and edification, I present the following link:


http://monkeyup.my-bulldog.com/pages/monkeyup_my-bulldog_com/Ooops.html


WTF is there

All I get is what looks like a foreign language 404 on your URL or the
source.

HTML
HEAD
TITLEOOPS/TITLE
/HEAD
BODY
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/01.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/02.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/03.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/04.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/05.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/06.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/07.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/08.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/09.jpg"
IMG SRc="http://andreusii.sweb.cz/ser/10.jpg"
/BODY
/HTML