Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old November 25th 19, 08:03 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...

On 11/25/2019 5:08 AM, Pete Keillor wrote:
Of course aluminum chips in air are going to come out orders of
magnitude easier, so it probably won't be an issue at any size you can
use. You've handled a 45 gal can half full of Al swarf? Not too
heavy? Anyway, hope it works well.

Pete Keillor


Half full (no liquid) I can just barely lift it to the dumpster. 3/4 full
and I use the tractor and fish the barrel out afterwards.


Just curious, do you recycle your aluminum swarf? Here outside Baltimore
there are a few scrap companies that buy machine shop waste. The one we
used gave us a couple of laundry baskets (or maybe mail carts), carts with
canvas bags maybe 3'x5' and 3' deep, and we would call when one was full.
They would come with a box truck with a crane and scale, weigh them as they
loaded them, then pay us for our aluminum and stainless steel and drop off
empty carts for next time. If we had chunks or saw cutoffs or other
nonferrous metals we kept that separate and got a better price for them.
They also paid for soda cans so we crushed and saved those, too. I don't
know the current pricing but 5-10 years ago a cart of aluminum lathe and
mill chips was over $200, maybe over $300. Basically free money since we
had to dump the chips somewhere after cleaning out a machine anyway, and the
carts were closer than the dumpster :-).

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames


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Old November 25th 19, 08:57 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On 11/25/2019 12:03 PM, Carl wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...

On 11/25/2019 5:08 AM, Pete Keillor wrote:
Of course aluminum chips in air are going to come out orders of
magnitude easier, so it probably won't be an issue at any size you can
use. You've handled a 45 gal can half full of Al swarf? Not too
heavy? Anyway, hope it works well.

Pete Keillor


Half full (no liquid) I can just barely lift it to the dumpster. 3/4

full and I use the tractor and fish the barrel out afterwards.

Just curious, do you recycle your aluminum swarf? Here outside

Baltimore there are a few scrap companies that buy machine shop waste.
The one we used gave us a couple of laundry baskets (or maybe mail
carts), carts with canvas bags maybe 3'x5' and 3' deep, and we would
call when one was full. They would come with a box truck with a crane
and scale, weigh them as they loaded them, then pay us for our aluminum
and stainless steel and drop off empty carts for next time. If we had
chunks or saw cutoffs or other nonferrous metals we kept that separate
and got a better price for them. They also paid for soda cans so we
crushed and saved those, too. I don't know the current pricing but 5-10
years ago a cart of aluminum lathe and mill chips was over $200, maybe
over $300. Basically free money since we had to dump the chips
somewhere after cleaning out a machine anyway, and the carts were closer
than the dumpster .



I have not been. Last time I checked the price for chips was so much
lower than cans that it wasn't worth it, and I had to haul. Also if
there was any hint of coolant residue they would discount it further. As
far as I know there is nobody local who will pickup. This is not a
large industrial area. There is very little industry here except for
Barco Metal Stamping and a few others in primarily military or
agriculture and the R&D side the military mostly comes from elsewhere.
My niche is a world wide market so it doesn't matter where I am located
except for supply convenience, and I can get most anything delivered.


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Old November 25th 19, 11:46 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On 11/24/2019 6:55 PM, Carl wrote: "Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...

On 11/24/2019 3:10 PM, Carl wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...
On 11/22/2019 6:53 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 23/11/19 12:23 pm, wrote:
On Friday, November 22, 2019 at 4:31:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe
wrote:
On 11/21/2019 5:13 PM,
wrote:
Anyway found that one can buy the cyclone bit on AliExpress
or Ebay
Mind posting a link. I recently unplugged the heavy duty hose
on my
... Been thinking about making Thein seperator, but... well...
time.

No problem. The one I bought was $ 18.01 from

Magicalcarworldstore.
If anyone knows how to post a URL directly , please post it.

I always filter by "Orders" because often the lowest price is a

store
that has not a single sale of this product, or has a visibly
inferior version that people don't choose, or some other reason to
avoid them.

Always cut off the URL at the ? for AliExpress.

Here are a couple of links, slightly different products:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32942971357.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32833255347.html


Clifford Heath.


Found a few on Fleabay with "US STOCK" for a few dollars more and
free shipping. I went ahead and ordered two different ones to play
with. If I can use something like a 45 gallon Brute trash can or
even a 55 gallon barrel that would be great. If they don't work
that well they still didn't cost much.

You have probably already had a look on youtube but if not there are
a bunch of construction videos on how to put together a dust
collector with various shop vacs or bigger blowers, with homemade
cyclones or the commercial ones. If you want a small, portable unit
you could adapt this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7KQ_p8IDAg, or the one he based his
on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyBuRjO54NM. They used 5 gallon
buckets to hold the dust/wood shavings, not 45 gallon, but I think
they are pretty clever and simple to build so you might get a useful
idea or two.



I had planned on building a thein separator for a barrel for a long
time. I even started once, but I'm just so darn busy in the shop these
days I never seem to get back to it. If the $20 (+/-) import cyclones
can be mounted on a barrel lid or improvised barrel lid and work for
half a year before the chips eat them up I'd be good with that.

Five gallon bucket. HA. One day on the Tormach or the Hurco doing
even moderately heavy material removal can fill a five gallon bucket.
Sometimes nearly two. I have had to stop mid day a few times just to
clean out the machines so the coolant will flow back to the tank. LOL.


It was always fun to see our head machinist climbing into a 60x30 Fadal
with a snow shovel and standing on the table so he could fill up a
couple of 45 gallon garbage cans with white snow - the chips and strings
of white acetal from a recurring job we did that ran for a couple of
days every few months.

I think you have discussed how small your shop is, so I was thinking you
could stack the shop vac and the cyclone collection barrel to save room,
just reverse the youtube example and put the barrel at the bottom,
sitting on a base with casters for mobility, then use legs from that
base to a shelf to hold the shop vac above the cyclone mounted on the
barrel lid. Use 2" PVC pipe for the legs, screw down four caps to the
top of the base and the bottom of the shelf as in the video so the legs
stay attached to the bottom of the shelf and pull out of the base for
easy disassembly, then make a pocket with walls or some pegs for the
shop vac to sit down into on top of the shelf so it lifts out easily but
can't roll off. To empty lift off shop vac then the shelf with legs,
roll barrel to dumpster or recycling container and empty. Anyway, just
some ideas for you.

My shop is actually not all that small. Compared to the shop my BIL
managed before he retired its tiny, but my limitations are more
organization and electrical service than actual space. My main machine
room is 14 x 24. There are 4 CNC mills a small lathe, and an assembly
bench in that room, but my shop overall is 50x60 (ft). My bigger CNC
mill and my bigger lathe are not inside the machine room. However
stacking is a perfectly valid option. It seems floor space is always at
a premium. Even extra buckets of way oil and soluble coolant find
themselves getting moved from spot to spot depending on today's projects.

My big suck limitation is the 100 amp sub panel feeding my shop. I
don't weld when the machines are running. I've got a new ACDC Variable
Frequency Pulse TIG machine that I haven't even done more than plug it
in and make it buzz once because I don't want to run it and risk
crashing a job when the CNC mills are running.

When I built my shop running a machine shop with multiple automated CNC
machines running at the same time wasn't even a glimmer of an idea. It
was just supposed to be a warehouse for my contracting business and a
place I could run a few power tools one at a time. A 100 amp sub seemed
like overkill at the time. Mostly just so I could run a welder without
killing the office (16x24) air conditioner. LOL.

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Old November 26th 19, 12:57 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...
A 100 amp sub seemed like overkill at the time. Mostly just so I could
run a welder without killing the office (16x24) air conditioner. LOL.


Electrical capacity is like computer memory, demand will always rise to
exceed supply :-).

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames

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Old November 26th 19, 02:47 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On 25/11/19 11:08 pm, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 13:40:19 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 11/22/2019 6:53 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 23/11/19 12:23 pm, wrote:
On Friday, November 22, 2019 at 4:31:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/21/2019 5:13 PM,
wrote:
Anyway found that one can buy the cyclone bit on AliExpress or Ebay
Mind posting a link. I recently unplugged the heavy duty hose on my
... Been thinking about making Thein seperator, but... well... time.

No problem. The one I bought was $ 18.01 from Magicalcarworldstore.
If anyone knows how to post a URL directly , please post it.

I always filter by "Orders" because often the lowest price is a store

that has not a single sale of this product, or has a visibly inferior
version that people don't choose, or some other reason to avoid them.

Always cut off the URL at the ? for AliExpress.

Here are a couple of links, slightly different products:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32942971357.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32833255347.html


Clifford Heath.



Found a few on Fleabay with "US STOCK" for a few dollars more and free
shipping. I went ahead and ordered two different ones to play with. If
I can use something like a 45 gallon Brute trash can or even a 55 gallon
barrel that would be great. If they don't work that well they still
didn't cost much.


A funny thing about cyclones is the separation efficiency is dependent
on the velocity of the fluid and the diameter. They don't scale.
Bigger isn't better. I was surprised as a young researcher in
Magnesium to see the Dorr hydroclones. We processed about 80,000 gpm
seawater with about 1200 ppm Mg, the mag hydrate was initially settled
in ponds with huge rakes, then the slurry was pumped from the center
of the ponds to the hydroclone house where hundreds of very small
cyclones were manifolded together. The further concentrated mag
hydrate came off the bottom, clears from the center. Each cyclone
wasn't over 2-3" in diameter. Mag hydrate is a very tiny particle, so
it took a lot of force to separate it from the seawater.

Of course aluminum chips in air are going to come out orders of
magnitude easier, so it probably won't be an issue at any size you can
use. You've handled a 45 gal can half full of Al swarf? Not too
heavy? Anyway, hope it works well.


I do have one question for those who've used a cyclone in a machine shop.

How long does the cyclone itself last with sharp swarf spinning along
the sides?

Do sellers advertise a wall thickness or other longevity indicator?

Clifford Heath.



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Old November 26th 19, 06:07 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On 11/25/2019 6:47 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 25/11/19 11:08 pm, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 13:40:19 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 11/22/2019 6:53 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 23/11/19 12:23 pm, wrote:
On Friday, November 22, 2019 at 4:31:40 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/21/2019 5:13 PM,
wrote:
** Anyway found that one can buy the cyclone bit on AliExpress
or Ebay
Mind posting a link.* I recently unplugged the heavy duty hose on my
... Been thinking about making Thein seperator, but... well... time.

No problem.* The one I bought was $ 18.01 from Magicalcarworldstore.
If anyone knows how to post a URL directly , please post it.

I always filter by "Orders" because often the lowest price is a store
that has not a single sale of this product, or has a visibly inferior
version that people don't choose, or some other reason to avoid them.

Always cut off the URL at the ? for AliExpress.

Here are a couple of links, slightly different products:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32942971357.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32833255347.html


Clifford Heath.


Found a few on Fleabay with "US STOCK" for a few dollars more and free
shipping.* I went ahead and ordered two different ones to play with.* If
I can use something like a 45 gallon Brute trash can or even a 55 gallon
barrel that would be great.* If they don't work that well they still
didn't cost much.


A funny thing about cyclones is the separation efficiency is dependent
on the velocity of the fluid and the diameter.* They don't scale.
Bigger isn't better.* I was surprised as a young researcher in
Magnesium to see the Dorr hydroclones.* We processed about 80,000 gpm
seawater with about 1200 ppm Mg, the mag hydrate was initially settled
in ponds with huge rakes, then the slurry was pumped from the center
of the ponds to the hydroclone house where hundreds of very small
cyclones were manifolded together.* The further concentrated mag
hydrate came off the bottom, clears from the center.* Each cyclone
wasn't over 2-3" in diameter.* Mag hydrate is a very tiny particle, so
it took a lot of force to separate it from the seawater.

Of course aluminum chips in air are going to come out orders of
magnitude easier, so it probably won't be an issue at any size you can
use.* You've handled a 45 gal can half full of Al swarf?* Not too
heavy?* Anyway, hope it works well.


I do have one question for those who've used a cyclone in a machine shop.

How long does the cyclone itself last with sharp swarf spinning along
the sides?

Do sellers advertise a wall thickness or other longevity indicator?

Clifford Heath.



LOL. Yeah right. From Chinese import cyclones at the low end of the
manufacturing spectrum and low end of the price range. I think atleast
for now its just a disposable tool. Like end mills only cheaper.
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Old November 30th 19, 05:51 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 18:57:47 -0500, "Carl"
wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...
A 100 amp sub seemed like overkill at the time. Mostly just so I could
run a welder without killing the office (16x24) air conditioner. LOL.


Electrical capacity is like computer memory, demand will always rise to
exceed supply :-).


Nah. I freed up 6 240v breaker slots when I moved to the HVAC unit
from baseboard electrocution heaters. (net 4 after adding the singe
breaker and double for the compressor). That let me have 3 doubles
for 240v outlets in my 2-car shop.

--
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


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