I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:18:52 -0500, Ignoramus17939
wrote:

I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

Google "small hole drilling." In many of the links you'll find
comments about the applications. There are many, from medical devices
to aerospace to process screens and filters.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2017-07-20, Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

I've used them, in a non-CNC Cameron Precision micro precision
sensitive drill press for drilling out the web of a broken-off tap.

They typically have split points, and are in a wide range of
sizes. The colored collar around the shank helps you to pick the right
size. (That, plus measuring to get close before you select with the
color.) I don't know precisely what the color code is, but it is there.

They, of course, are great for drilling small holes in PCB
materials, like the green G10 glass-epoxy, and the blue glass epoxy
for which I don't know the name. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:18:52 -0500, Ignoramus17939
wrote:

I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

Crafters and woodcarvers love them. They fit well in Dremels an other
small high speed flex-shaft handsets like Foredom. I got a bunch from
Gunner about a decade ago (carbide or HSS?), but they seem to eat
anything.

eBay sells new carbide 1/8" end mills for a buck, delivered.

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

On 20-Jul-17 10:18 AM, Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i



Stick them on eBay in bags of 5/10/20.

Lots of electronics hobbiests use them, mainly in home brew CNC PCB
drilling machines but also they can be used in a drill press manually if
you're careful.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:18:52 -0500, Ignoramus17939
wrote:

I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

Depending on exactly what they are they work well in a small hand held
demel grinder. I buy both the drills and what appear to be tiny end
mills that are cheap, break easily, but can do small jobs on hard
material. "Cheap" being the key word here :-)
--
Cheers,

Schweik

Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

I buy them all the time, usually in 50 or 100 count assorted packs. I
use them for doing repairs on various things as well as for hobby use.

Very handy in a Dremal tool or one of the small precision drill
presses. Used a lot by hobbyists like RC, model train, ship, and model
builders.

The big places use them once, then either scrap them or ship them to
places to be sharpened and the good ones get returned, the out of spec
go to the hobby market.

Have someone clean them and sort out the broken ones, then toss the rest
on Ebay in various lot sizes, for shipping it is handy to stick them
into a styrofoam block with a second one over the tips so they don't get
broken.

--
Steve W.

"Ignoramus17939" wrote in
message ...
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny
drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that
these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

They work reasonably well on a milling machine with this type of
manual-feed adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/i/122443451260?chn=ps&dispItem=1

-jsw

Ignoramus17939 wrote:

I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i
Yes, they can drill aluminum and brass, even do deep drilling if you peck
it. High spindle RPM is best, but you can do it at slower speed if you keep
the feed slow.

They can actually be used in a micro hand drill press, but you have to be
very careful.

You will find lots of people selling these on eBay and such.

I have a drawer full of them, and use them for certain projects.

Jon

DoN. Nichols wrote:

and the blue glass epoxy
for which I don't know the name. :-)
Diallyl Pthalate.

Jon

"Trumble" wrote in message
...

On 20-Jul-17 10:18 AM, Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i



Stick them on eBay in bags of 5/10/20.

Lots of electronics hobbiests use them, mainly in home brew CNC PCB
drilling machines but also they can be used in a drill press manually if
you're careful.
___________

Works better with a sensitive drill chuck. Most drill presses have too much
runout work well with micro drills. Some like the little high speed Proxxon
are decent though.

On 21-Jul-17 3:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Trumble" wrote in message
...

On 20-Jul-17 10:18 AM, Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i



Stick them on eBay in bags of 5/10/20.

Lots of electronics hobbiests use them, mainly in home brew CNC PCB
drilling machines but also they can be used in a drill press manually if
you're careful.
___________

Works better with a sensitive drill chuck. Most drill presses have too
much runout work well with micro drills. Some like the little high
speed Proxxon are decent though.



Thanks, today I learned what a sensitive drill chuck was. I'd not heard
of them before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytvZekD5x6Q

Can these drills drill metal?

On 2017-07-20, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus17939" wrote in
message ...
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny
drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that
these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

They work reasonably well on a milling machine with this type of
manual-feed adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/i/122443451260?chn=ps&dispItem=1

-jsw



I have a small sensitive chuck like that. I am sure that I would sell
those drills, but I wanted to keep at least a couple dozen of them,
and I am not sure which ones to pick.

i

On 2017-07-21, Ignoramus2777 wrote:

Can these drills drill metal?

Yes. I said that I drilled out the web of a standard HSS tap,
and was then able to pick out the teeth and re-tap the hole.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2017-07-21, Ignoramus2777 wrote:

Can these drills drill metal?

You've got enough of them so try it! Go for high RPM while you
are about it. And particularly -- avoid side stress on them, as that is
quite likely to snap the drill -- the same with the standard shanked
solid carbide drills which I used for PCBs back when. The smaller the
diameter, the easier it is to snap the drill with just a little side
force.

When drilling out the broken tap, the main trick was to get the
workpiece solidly clamped to the table of the tiny drill press.

Also -- check for runout in the drill chuck.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2017-07-20, Steve W. wrote:

The big places use them once, then either scrap them or ship them to
places to be sharpened and the good ones get returned, the out of spec
go to the hobby market.

And what makes them out of spec is the length of the shaft plus
bit. This is because the PCB drilling machines are CNC, and have a
fairly limited Z-axis movement.

Have someone clean them and sort out the broken ones, then toss the rest
on Ebay in various lot sizes, for shipping it is handy to stick them
into a styrofoam block with a second one over the tips so they don't get
broken.

Agreed.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2017-07-21, Ignoramus2777 wrote:

I have a small sensitive chuck like that. I am sure that I would sell
those drills, but I wanted to keep at least a couple dozen of them,
and I am not sure which ones to pick.

Look at the tips with magnification. The ones you want for
drills are ground as split point drills. Some are end-mill grind, and
are likely used for weird-shaped apertures.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Ignoramus2777" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-20, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus17939" wrote in
message ...
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is
a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny
drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that
these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

They work reasonably well on a milling machine with this type of
manual-feed adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/i/122443451260?chn=ps&dispItem=1

-jsw



I have a small sensitive chuck like that. I am sure that I would
sell
those drills, but I wanted to keep at least a couple dozen of them,
and I am not sure which ones to pick.

i

You could try them to find the smallest size that doesn't break on
your drill press.
-jsw

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 20:54:40 -0500, Ignoramus2777
wrote:

On 2017-07-20, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus17939" wrote in
message ...
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny
drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that
these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

They work reasonably well on a milling machine with this type of
manual-feed adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/i/122443451260?chn=ps&dispItem=1

-jsw



I have a small sensitive chuck like that. I am sure that I would sell
those drills, but I wanted to keep at least a couple dozen of them,
and I am not sure which ones to pick.

You might keep the metric/sae sizes by mm/16th inch plus one smaller
and larger on each side of them, plus tap drill sizes.

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

"Trumble" wrote in message
...

On 21-Jul-17 3:26 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Trumble" wrote in message
...

On 20-Jul-17 10:18 AM, Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i



Stick them on eBay in bags of 5/10/20.

Lots of electronics hobbiests use them, mainly in home brew CNC PCB
drilling machines but also they can be used in a drill press manually if
you're careful.
___________

Works better with a sensitive drill chuck. Most drill presses have too
much runout work well with micro drills. Some like the little high speed
Proxxon are decent though.



Thanks, today I learned what a sensitive drill chuck was. I'd not heard
of them before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytvZekD5x6Q

**************

Woo! Hoo! I was able to help somebody else learn something useful.
Yippee!

So often I come on this group looking for help and knowledge. Its nice to
be able to share some back once in a while.

On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 10:18:58 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

They are carbide. They cut through hard stuff. They are used in PCB manufacturing because G10 fiberglass is really rough on HSS bits.

EVERYTHING you have heard about their brittleness is true. I have broken 0.4mm drills simply by picking them up wrong.

Hobby dills tiny drill holes. Look into any Dremel box
and you will have half a dozen.
Martin

On 7/19/2017 9:45 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:18:52 -0500, Ignoramus17939
wrote:

I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

Google "small hole drilling." In many of the links you'll find
comments about the applications. There are many, from medical devices
to aerospace to process screens and filters.

On Friday, July 21, 2017 at 9:16:13 PM UTC-4, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Hobby dills tiny drill holes. Look into any Dremel box
and you will have half a dozen.
Martin

Not really the same thing. The Dremel ones are HSS. Iggy's got solid carbide.

I used to use those in the industry. I know what I'm talking about.
The SS ones are drills. The ones with a plastic ring about the middle
are the real things. One of the things I learned - many people turn in
the drills of all sizes to be re-ground and calibrated tip to plastic.

When we took ours there, they were selling boxes of what we used for
almost nothing. So we bought boxes and later got ours. All were sharp
and he was trying to get his sharping price back out of them. So many
companies died and left stuff everywhere. Motor places had fixes but no
longer a customer. In the last 6 years in the south bay I worked for
three companies. A big one got out of the business. Before that, I got
my bonuses and VP and I found jobs before the crash. Then while at
another small company a good friend and I created a product line that
customers asked for the parts. Then a big fish bought us out and at
that location once again started using carbide in very high speed
spindle in CNC to drill prototype boards. Mill with 5 mill and drill
the holes for connections and parts. Most of ours were surface mount.
Grounds and power were on two planes and drilling connected them.

Martin

On 7/21/2017 8:49 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Friday, July 21, 2017 at 9:16:13 PM UTC-4, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Hobby dills tiny drill holes. Look into any Dremel box
and you will have half a dozen.
Martin

Not really the same thing. The Dremel ones are HSS. Iggy's got solid carbide.

G10 was outlawed 25-30 years ago. FR4 was the replacement. G10 catches
on fire. FR4 self extinguishes. If you look you can't tell. If you
read or design with them - really design transmission lines you know.

Martin

On 7/21/2017 8:13 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 10:18:58 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

They are carbide. They cut through hard stuff. They are used in PCB manufacturing because G10 fiberglass is really rough on HSS bits.

EVERYTHING you have heard about their brittleness is true. I have broken 0.4mm drills simply by picking them up wrong.

On Friday, July 21, 2017 at 11:06:51 PM UTC-4, Martin Eastburn wrote:
G10 was outlawed 25-30 years ago. FR4 was the replacement. G10 catches
on fire. FR4 self extinguishes. If you look you can't tell. If you
read or design with them - really design transmission lines you know.

Martin

On 7/21/2017 8:13 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 10:18:58 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

They are carbide. They cut through hard stuff. They are used in PCB manufacturing because G10 fiberglass is really rough on HSS bits.

EVERYTHING you have heard about their brittleness is true. I have broken 0.4mm drills simply by picking them up wrong.


Fine. FR4 is deadly abrasive for HSS drills as well. OK?

Yes it is OK to call banned stuff. I have some G10 in the shop, scrap I
got years ago. With the radio shack going up in smoke for the most
part, supply of PCB material for those of us that experiment is getting
scarce.

Martin

On 7/24/2017 1:49 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Friday, July 21, 2017 at 11:06:51 PM UTC-4, Martin Eastburn wrote:
G10 was outlawed 25-30 years ago. FR4 was the replacement. G10 catches
on fire. FR4 self extinguishes. If you look you can't tell. If you
read or design with them - really design transmission lines you know.

Martin

On 7/21/2017 8:13 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 10:18:58 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus17939 wrote:
I am parting out a PCB drilling CNC machine. Inside of it, there is a
good pile of a few lbs of carbide "PCB Drills". These are tiny drills
and perhaps end mills, with what looks like 1/8" shanks.

I wonder if there is any non-PCB use for them. I do realize that these
carbide drills can only be used in CNC equipment, and I have a CNC
milling machine. Trying to think of any good use cases but can't.

i

They are carbide. They cut through hard stuff. They are used in PCB manufacturing because G10 fiberglass is really rough on HSS bits.

EVERYTHING you have heard about their brittleness is true. I have broken 0.4mm drills simply by picking them up wrong.


Fine. FR4 is deadly abrasive for HSS drills as well. OK?

On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 12:14:58 AM UTC-4, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Yes it is OK to call banned stuff. I have some G10 in the shop, scrap I
got years ago. With the radio shack going up in smoke for the most
part, supply of PCB material for those of us that experiment is getting
scarce.

Martin

RS will indeed be missed. I have a pretty good supply of stuff, but having them down the street was a good backup sometimes. FWIW, Ebay has a pretty wide selection of board blanks at tolerable prices. As I gain confidence in cnc routing boards, I expect to be doing more ultra-quick protos.