On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 16:31:20 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 20:51:48 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:

writes:

Volswagen was famous for that in the early "rabbit" years. Tubber
undercoating on the outside of the floor. Rubber sound deadener on the
inside of the floor. Rust crystals in between. Add floor mats and you
had a 3 layer rubber floor. Looking at them they could look almost
perfect, but you could punch them with your fist almost anywhere
without bruising your knuckles.

My mother had one of those. One day, as my dad and I were checking her
Rabbit before she took it on a long trip, I stomped hard on the brake
pedal, and had it go all the way to the floor. Turned out the brake
line to the rear wheels ran under the floor mats, where it was always
damp, so it was rusted, of course, and my high pressure test burst it.

-tih
Yup - and the fuel line ran inside too.
AWFUL little machines. They say they don't build 'em like they used to
and a say "THANK GOD!!!!!"

Patching a hole in the floor on one of those critters always turned
into at least an all day job, and often ended up in a trip to the
wrecking yard when you found out just how far the cancer had spread.
After pealing off as much of the rubber from both inside and outside
and finding there was nothing left to rivit or screw or weld a patch
too - or after attempting to weld in a patch without removing the
rubber adequately from one side or the other and turning it into a
"smoke bomb" A friend did it "the easy way" and just poured a
fiberglass floor tub, using the rubber membrane as a "mold", and
screwed the fiberglass to the inner rocker panels.

Back in the mid '60s my neighbour who worked as a weldor at "Link
Belt" broughy home a couple large chain guards (3/16" sheet syeel) and
re-built the floor pan of his dad's '59 Buick from the back bumper to
the fire wall. He didn't bother to undercoat it because he figured
that the roof would rust through before the new floor!
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 01:07:21 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 16:31:20 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 20:51:48 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:

writes:

Volswagen was famous for that in the early "rabbit" years. Tubber
undercoating on the outside of the floor. Rubber sound deadener on the
inside of the floor. Rust crystals in between. Add floor mats and you
had a 3 layer rubber floor. Looking at them they could look almost
perfect, but you could punch them with your fist almost anywhere
without bruising your knuckles.

My mother had one of those. One day, as my dad and I were checking her
Rabbit before she took it on a long trip, I stomped hard on the brake
pedal, and had it go all the way to the floor. Turned out the brake
line to the rear wheels ran under the floor mats, where it was always
damp, so it was rusted, of course, and my high pressure test burst it.

-tih
Yup - and the fuel line ran inside too.
AWFUL little machines. They say they don't build 'em like they used to
and a say "THANK GOD!!!!!"

Patching a hole in the floor on one of those critters always turned
into at least an all day job, and often ended up in a trip to the
wrecking yard when you found out just how far the cancer had spread.
After pealing off as much of the rubber from both inside and outside
and finding there was nothing left to rivit or screw or weld a patch
too - or after attempting to weld in a patch without removing the
rubber adequately from one side or the other and turning it into a
"smoke bomb" A friend did it "the easy way" and just poured a
fiberglass floor tub, using the rubber membrane as a "mold", and
screwed the fiberglass to the inner rocker panels.

Back in the mid '60s my neighbour who worked as a weldor at "Link
Belt" broughy home a couple large chain guards (3/16" sheet syeel) and
re-built the floor pan of his dad's '59 Buick from the back bumper to
the fire wall. He didn't bother to undercoat it because he figured
that the roof would rust through before the new floor!
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada
"link Belt" rings an old bell. My dad fed the copula at the LB
foundry in Elmira back in the late fifties.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 13:20:38 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 01:07:21 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 16:31:20 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 20:51:48 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:

writes:

Volswagen was famous for that in the early "rabbit" years. Tubber
undercoating on the outside of the floor. Rubber sound deadener on the
inside of the floor. Rust crystals in between. Add floor mats and you
had a 3 layer rubber floor. Looking at them they could look almost
perfect, but you could punch them with your fist almost anywhere
without bruising your knuckles.

My mother had one of those. One day, as my dad and I were checking her
Rabbit before she took it on a long trip, I stomped hard on the brake
pedal, and had it go all the way to the floor. Turned out the brake
line to the rear wheels ran under the floor mats, where it was always
damp, so it was rusted, of course, and my high pressure test burst it.

-tih
Yup - and the fuel line ran inside too.
AWFUL little machines. They say they don't build 'em like they used to
and a say "THANK GOD!!!!!"

Patching a hole in the floor on one of those critters always turned
into at least an all day job, and often ended up in a trip to the
wrecking yard when you found out just how far the cancer had spread.
After pealing off as much of the rubber from both inside and outside
and finding there was nothing left to rivit or screw or weld a patch
too - or after attempting to weld in a patch without removing the
rubber adequately from one side or the other and turning it into a
"smoke bomb" A friend did it "the easy way" and just poured a
fiberglass floor tub, using the rubber membrane as a "mold", and
screwed the fiberglass to the inner rocker panels.

Back in the mid '60s my neighbour who worked as a weldor at "Link
Belt" broughy home a couple large chain guards (3/16" sheet syeel) and
re-built the floor pan of his dad's '59 Buick from the back bumper to
the fire wall. He didn't bother to undercoat it because he figured
that the roof would rust through before the new floor!
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada
"link Belt" rings an old bell. My dad fed the copula at the LB
foundry in Elmira back in the late fifties.
Tom worked at the plant in Woodstock and he lived in the front half of
the house in Oxford Centre - about the only house to survive the
tornado. This was pre 1967.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

So if the protectant is damaged, it will rust? Who would have ever
guessed that? thud

So, what do you like? Do you prefer cathodic protection? Blue
glitter wands? What?

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:28:30 -0500, Ignoramus9970
wrote:

On 2016-03-23, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

That stuff does not stick to rust. Oil does stick to rust.

It does stick to rust, quite well. It's just that thick rust flakes
fall off.


Rust continues under any coating. Rust does not continue under oil.

Undercoatings are hard to repair. Oil film is easy to repair.

Go for whatever is your pleasure. shrug


Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!


I am not a lawyer and I do not provide legal advise.

I just want my trucks not to rust from the bottom.

Let us know how well it works.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:23:15 -0500, Ignoramus9970
wrote:

On 2016-03-23, James Waldby wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:28:46 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:09:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" ... wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" ... wrote ...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
The MSDS data suggests that Thompson's Water Seal and LPS-3 have
had their active preservatives removed and are now just wax in solvent.

What were these additives?

I don't remember exactly and I'm keeping my computer clean by not
searching while doing my taxes. You could look.

This is second-hand info, but I remember from discussions a decade ago
with some woodworkers...

The old formula was just some volatile solvent and some kind of wax --
not common paraffin, according to reports, but some similar
hydrocarbon wax. The new formula is water-based. It still contains
some volatiles, but it doesn't spread well and it doesn't soak in as
well.

Amazon reviews of Thompsons 10104 MultiSurface Water Seal Waterproofer
new formula show 4 positive reviews, and 24 critical (1 star of 5)
reviews ... amazingly negative, overall.
http://www.amazon.com/Thompsons-10104-MultiSurface-Water-Seal/product-reviews/B000LNOZ8Y/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt_rgt?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=c ritical


Really amazingly negative reviews!

AFAIC, Thompsons should be sued for saying that ANY of their products
work...at all.

I'm surprised that _silicone_ hasn't sued them for slander.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:13:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

So if the protectant is damaged, it will rust? Who would have ever
guessed that? thud



So, what do you like? Do you prefer cathodic protection? Blue
glitter wands? What?
I much prefer a "self healing" protection - like a waxy oil. A mix a
friend of mine uses is a mix of a vegetable oil, beeswax and lanolin.-
applied warm.

The old Waxoyl product worked pretty good. Krown rustproofing is good.
So is RustChek

My 20 year old Ford is virtually rust free - treated with RustChek

As far as the cathodic protection, what you are buying is an insurance
policy and a little box of snake oil.

A friend's 2007 GMC pickup has had aver $5000 worth of bodywork done
under the rust protection warranty. His car, which also has one, has
had over $3000 worth of rust repair done (I think it's a 2005 Chev)

My 2002 Taurus, treated with Waxoyl from new and Krowned twice, has
has no rust repair, and has no rust showing and my 96 Ranger has had
one tiny spot repaired on the left rear fender - a spot the size of a
quarter.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:18:16 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:28:30 -0500, Ignoramus9970
wrote:

On 2016-03-23, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

That stuff does not stick to rust. Oil does stick to rust.

It does stick to rust, quite well. It's just that thick rust flakes
fall off.


Rust continues under any coating. Rust does not continue under oil.

Undercoatings are hard to repair. Oil film is easy to repair.

Go for whatever is your pleasure. shrug


Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!


I am not a lawyer and I do not provide legal advise.

I just want my trucks not to rust from the bottom.

Let us know how well it works.
Up here in the salt/rust belt we know what works. Rubberized
undercoating is one product that does NOT work. Oil based products
like Krown and RustCheck do.

Most of the "oil based" commercial products today are a vegetable
based oil today, which tends to wash off more quickly.
Raw linseed oil is a product that has been used successfully,
"wool oil" - aka Lanolin is also used commercially. (one example is
"fluid film")

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

True indeed.

Gunner, who grew up in Michigan, and had more than one nice vehicle
rust away, long long before it was worn out.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 20:51:48 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:

writes:

Volswagen was famous for that in the early "rabbit" years. Tubber
undercoating on the outside of the floor. Rubber sound deadener on the
inside of the floor. Rust crystals in between. Add floor mats and you
had a 3 layer rubber floor. Looking at them they could look almost
perfect, but you could punch them with your fist almost anywhere
without bruising your knuckles.

My mother had one of those. One day, as my dad and I were checking her
Rabbit before she took it on a long trip, I stomped hard on the brake
pedal, and had it go all the way to the floor. Turned out the brake
line to the rear wheels ran under the floor mats, where it was always
damp, so it was rusted, of course, and my high pressure test burst it.

-tih

Better than my buddy who leaned forwards to grab a beer while riding
in the backseat of a Corvair and went through the floor at 65mph.
Fatally.

Gunner

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:23:15 -0500, Ignoramus9970
wrote:

On 2016-03-23, James Waldby wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:28:46 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:09:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" ... wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" ... wrote ...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
The MSDS data suggests that Thompson's Water Seal and LPS-3 have
had their active preservatives removed and are now just wax in solvent.

What were these additives?

I don't remember exactly and I'm keeping my computer clean by not
searching while doing my taxes. You could look.

This is second-hand info, but I remember from discussions a decade ago
with some woodworkers...

The old formula was just some volatile solvent and some kind of wax --
not common paraffin, according to reports, but some similar
hydrocarbon wax. The new formula is water-based. It still contains
some volatiles, but it doesn't spread well and it doesn't soak in as
well.

Amazon reviews of Thompsons 10104 MultiSurface Water Seal Waterproofer
new formula show 4 positive reviews, and 24 critical (1 star of 5)
reviews ... amazingly negative, overall.
http://www.amazon.com/Thompsons-10104-MultiSurface-Water-Seal/product-reviews/B000LNOZ8Y/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt_rgt?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=c ritical


Really amazingly negative reviews!
i

Geeze! Glad Ive got 4 gallons left of a 5 gallon can I bought 10 yrs
ago. The front deck gets done again this spring....oil based..praise
be.

Gunner

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:24:19 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:23:15 -0500, Ignoramus9970
wrote:

On 2016-03-23, James Waldby wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:28:46 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:09:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" ... wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" ... wrote ...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
The MSDS data suggests that Thompson's Water Seal and LPS-3 have
had their active preservatives removed and are now just wax in solvent.

What were these additives?

I don't remember exactly and I'm keeping my computer clean by not
searching while doing my taxes. You could look.

This is second-hand info, but I remember from discussions a decade ago
with some woodworkers...

The old formula was just some volatile solvent and some kind of wax --
not common paraffin, according to reports, but some similar
hydrocarbon wax. The new formula is water-based. It still contains
some volatiles, but it doesn't spread well and it doesn't soak in as
well.

Amazon reviews of Thompsons 10104 MultiSurface Water Seal Waterproofer
new formula show 4 positive reviews, and 24 critical (1 star of 5)
reviews ... amazingly negative, overall.
http://www.amazon.com/Thompsons-10104-MultiSurface-Water-Seal/product-reviews/B000LNOZ8Y/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt_rgt?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=c ritical


Really amazingly negative reviews!

AFAIC, Thompsons should be sued for saying that ANY of their products
work...at all.

I'm surprised that _silicone_ hasn't sued them for slander.

Ive used the old oil based Thompsons with complete satisfaction, many
times over the years. The new stuff...off my wish list.

Gunner

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 16:41:23 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Christopher Tidy wrote:
Am Dienstag, 22. M?rz 2016 02:02:30 UTC+1 schrieb Ignoramus3828:
I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I've done this before. I used an empty carbon dioxide fire extinguisher. I soldered a garden sprayer nozzle into the output tube and a Schrader valve into a hole in the brass neck. Unscrew the whole top, fill to about 2/3 with oil and then reassemble and charge with air to 8 or 10 bar using a compressor. It works well. I might have a picture of it somewhere.

That would be fun if somebody used it to put out a fire.

I have one done that way, that the grand kids used as a Super Soaker
in the summer time.

Gunner

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 00:34:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:13:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

So if the protectant is damaged, it will rust? Who would have ever
guessed that? thud



So, what do you like? Do you prefer cathodic protection? Blue
glitter wands? What?
I much prefer a "self healing" protection - like a waxy oil. A mix a
friend of mine uses is a mix of a vegetable oil, beeswax and lanolin.-
applied warm.

The old Waxoyl product worked pretty good. Krown rustproofing is good.
So is RustChek

My 20 year old Ford is virtually rust free - treated with RustChek

Oregon uses crushed clay roof tiles and sand instead of salt, at least
this far down. My '07 Tundra has no rust or salt corrosion, either.


As far as the cathodic protection, what you are buying is an insurance
policy and a little box of snake oil.

Pricy little box.


A friend's 2007 GMC pickup has had aver $5000 worth of bodywork done
under the rust protection warranty. His car, which also has one, has
had over $3000 worth of rust repair done (I think it's a 2005 Chev)

Having grown up in sunny SoCal (+ 1.5 years in Aridzona), I know
nothing about rust except what I've seen and read. What do those
insurance policies cost?


My 2002 Taurus, treated with Waxoyl from new and Krowned twice, has
has no rust repair, and has no rust showing and my 96 Ranger has had
one tiny spot repaired on the left rear fender - a spot the size of a
quarter.

Since you have to reapply oils and waxes regularly, why wouldn't it be
cheaper to find and repair the little nicks in the rubberized
undercoating at the same schedule?

--
Doctors prescribe medicine of which they know little,
to cure diseases of which they know less,
in human beings of which they know nothing.
--Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire, about 250 years ago

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 04:46:27 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:24:19 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:23:15 -0500, Ignoramus9970
Really amazingly negative reviews!

AFAIC, Thompsons should be sued for saying that ANY of their products
work...at all.

I'm surprised that _silicone_ hasn't sued them for slander.

Ive used the old oil based Thompsons with complete satisfaction, many
times over the years. The new stuff...off my wish list.

If the oil used was BLO, I can see why it worked.

--
Doctors prescribe medicine of which they know little,
to cure diseases of which they know less,
in human beings of which they know nothing.
--Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire, about 250 years ago

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 04:29:19 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

Are the installers cleaning and drying the vehicles properly first?
I know it's best to have it done fresh from the factory, while it's
still pristine.


True indeed.

Gunner, who grew up in Michigan, and had more than one nice vehicle
rust away, long long before it was worn out.

Thinking about it, I can't see how the pressure-washer-like spray from
the tires doesn't wipe every bit off the undercarriage in minutes flat
during rains. I'd think snow was easier on it, but I don't drive in
the stuff here.

The bottom 8" of body/bedsides on my Tundra is undercoated (under the
paint) and none of it is chipped/rusted/damaged after 8+ years.

--
Doctors prescribe medicine of which they know little,
to cure diseases of which they know less,
in human beings of which they know nothing.
--Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire, about 250 years ago

On 3/24/2016 4:23 PM, wrote:

Why airplane oil?
Because we had about 30 gallons of it at the hangar from changing the
oil on the planes over the last year or two.

How much lead if any leaks into that oil?



Definitely measurable - ashless dispursant oil keeps it in suspension
instead of letting it "plate out" as sludge in the crankcase.



See, I thought it had magic properties...lead!

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 04:45:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:23:15 -0500, Ignoramus9970
wrote:

On 2016-03-23, James Waldby wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:28:46 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:09:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" ... wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" ... wrote ...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
The MSDS data suggests that Thompson's Water Seal and LPS-3 have
had their active preservatives removed and are now just wax in solvent.

What were these additives?

I don't remember exactly and I'm keeping my computer clean by not
searching while doing my taxes. You could look.

This is second-hand info, but I remember from discussions a decade ago
with some woodworkers...

The old formula was just some volatile solvent and some kind of wax --
not common paraffin, according to reports, but some similar
hydrocarbon wax. The new formula is water-based. It still contains
some volatiles, but it doesn't spread well and it doesn't soak in as
well.

Amazon reviews of Thompsons 10104 MultiSurface Water Seal Waterproofer
new formula show 4 positive reviews, and 24 critical (1 star of 5)
reviews ... amazingly negative, overall.
http://www.amazon.com/Thompsons-10104-MultiSurface-Water-Seal/product-reviews/B000LNOZ8Y/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt_rgt?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=c ritical


Really amazingly negative reviews!
i

Geeze! Glad Ive got 4 gallons left of a 5 gallon can I bought 10 yrs
ago. The front deck gets done again this spring....oil based..praise
be.

When you run out, switch to Penofin Blue. It's the cheaper one and
works better than their premium product. Penofin works better than
any other finish I've ever tried, and I've tried a lot in this
business. Penofin builds, so you put it on this year, next year, two
years after that, 3-5 years after that, etc. Truly great stuff. I've
done log homes with it and the owners were ecstatic with its look and
performance.

Brush in deck cleaner, rinse, allow to dry for a week, sweep off, and
apply in the morning sun, before it gets too hot. Let it sit and wipe
off any excess. That's a hassle, but it wipes easily and dries hard.
Lay the wipe cloth out flat on the grass to dry completely or it might
self-combust.

--
Doctors prescribe medicine of which they know little,
to cure diseases of which they know less,
in human beings of which they know nothing.
--Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire, about 250 years ago

On 2016-03-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 00:34:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:13:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

So if the protectant is damaged, it will rust? Who would have ever
guessed that? thud



So, what do you like? Do you prefer cathodic protection? Blue
glitter wands? What?
I much prefer a "self healing" protection - like a waxy oil. A mix a
friend of mine uses is a mix of a vegetable oil, beeswax and lanolin.-
applied warm.

The old Waxoyl product worked pretty good. Krown rustproofing is good.
So is RustChek

My 20 year old Ford is virtually rust free - treated with RustChek

Oregon uses crushed clay roof tiles and sand instead of salt, at least
this far down. My '07 Tundra has no rust or salt corrosion, either.


As far as the cathodic protection, what you are buying is an insurance
policy and a little box of snake oil.

Pricy little box.


A friend's 2007 GMC pickup has had aver $5000 worth of bodywork done
under the rust protection warranty. His car, which also has one, has
had over $3000 worth of rust repair done (I think it's a 2005 Chev)

Having grown up in sunny SoCal (+ 1.5 years in Aridzona), I know
nothing about rust except what I've seen and read. What do those
insurance policies cost?


My 2002 Taurus, treated with Waxoyl from new and Krowned twice, has
has no rust repair, and has no rust showing and my 96 Ranger has had
one tiny spot repaired on the left rear fender - a spot the size of a
quarter.

Since you have to reapply oils and waxes regularly, why wouldn't it be
cheaper to find and repair the little nicks in the rubberized
undercoating at the same schedule?


Larry, please get back into the real world, spraying oil is cheaper
than anything!

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 08:36:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

Are the installers cleaning and drying the vehicles properly first?
I know it's best to have it done fresh from the factory, while it's
still pristine.


The crap was installed new at the factory on VWs, and on new cars by
the thousands by the likes of Ziebart - with used vehicles steam
cleaned and dried - and they ALL rusted.

When the film is damaged and moisture gets in, the rust travels like
ringworm under the membrane, eating the steel like cancer.
True indeed.

Gunner, who grew up in Michigan, and had more than one nice vehicle
rust away, long long before it was worn out.

Thinking about it, I can't see how the pressure-washer-like spray from
the tires doesn't wipe every bit off the undercarriage in minutes flat
during rains. I'd think snow was easier on it, but I don't drive in
the stuff here.

The important parts are tha parts you don't see and that the blast
cannot reach. The oil soaks into any existing rust, and penetrates
seams and soaks "dirt traps" with oil instead of them being soaked
with salty water that stays there causing rust. The oil on the inner
panels of doors ets also stays, preventing rust from starting on the
inside unfinished and unsealed areas of the body.

The bottom 8" of body/bedsides on my Tundra is undercoated (under the
paint) and none of it is chipped/rusted/damaged after 8+ years.
Toyota's "stone gusrd" is pretty tough stuff. A lot of the
aftermarket "rocker-guard" used over the last 30 years was terrible
stuff. So was a lot of the original equipment stuff applied at the
factory on GM, Ford, Chrysler, and other brands.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 11:27:36 -0500, Ignoramus20764
wrote:

On 2016-03-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 00:34:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:13:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

So if the protectant is damaged, it will rust? Who would have ever
guessed that? thud



So, what do you like? Do you prefer cathodic protection? Blue
glitter wands? What?
I much prefer a "self healing" protection - like a waxy oil. A mix a
friend of mine uses is a mix of a vegetable oil, beeswax and lanolin.-
applied warm.

The old Waxoyl product worked pretty good. Krown rustproofing is good.
So is RustChek

My 20 year old Ford is virtually rust free - treated with RustChek

Oregon uses crushed clay roof tiles and sand instead of salt, at least
this far down. My '07 Tundra has no rust or salt corrosion, either.


As far as the cathodic protection, what you are buying is an insurance
policy and a little box of snake oil.

Pricy little box.


A friend's 2007 GMC pickup has had aver $5000 worth of bodywork done
under the rust protection warranty. His car, which also has one, has
had over $3000 worth of rust repair done (I think it's a 2005 Chev)

Having grown up in sunny SoCal (+ 1.5 years in Aridzona), I know
nothing about rust except what I've seen and read. What do those
insurance policies cost?


My 2002 Taurus, treated with Waxoyl from new and Krowned twice, has
has no rust repair, and has no rust showing and my 96 Ranger has had
one tiny spot repaired on the left rear fender - a spot the size of a
quarter.

Since you have to reapply oils and waxes regularly, why wouldn't it be
cheaper to find and repair the little nicks in the rubberized
undercoating at the same schedule?


Larry, please get back into the real world, spraying oil is cheaper
than anything!
Basically impossible to find them all, and to repair them you would
need to strip the material back several inches all around, clean and
retreat. Definitely not a trivial job. Ziebart used to just recoat -
with often diasterous results.

Bet that Corvair Gunner's buddy fell through was ziebarted (or a
similar rustproofing)

On 2016-03-26, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:18:16 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:28:30 -0500, Ignoramus9970
wrote:

On 2016-03-23, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

That stuff does not stick to rust. Oil does stick to rust.

It does stick to rust, quite well. It's just that thick rust flakes
fall off.


Rust continues under any coating. Rust does not continue under oil.

Undercoatings are hard to repair. Oil film is easy to repair.

Go for whatever is your pleasure. shrug


Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!


I am not a lawyer and I do not provide legal advise.

I just want my trucks not to rust from the bottom.

Let us know how well it works.
Up here in the salt/rust belt we know what works. Rubberized
undercoating is one product that does NOT work. Oil based products
like Krown and RustCheck do.

Most of the "oil based" commercial products today are a vegetable
based oil today, which tends to wash off more quickly.
Raw linseed oil is a product that has been used successfully,
"wool oil" - aka Lanolin is also used commercially. (one example is
"fluid film")

Hydraulic oil lasts about a year. Used hydraulic oil is nice and
clear, not like black used motor oil. Hydraulic oil also clings better
and has anti-rust additives that are added to resist internal
hydraulic corrosion.

i

writes:

Most of the "oil based" commercial products today are a vegetable
based oil today, which tends to wash off more quickly.
Raw linseed oil is a product that has been used successfully,
"wool oil" - aka Lanolin is also used commercially. (one example is
"fluid film")

Linseed oil eventually polymerizes, making it subjct to the same
water-creeps-under problem as rubber.

Fluid Film(tm) goes on kinda gloppy, thus doesn't drip, which is good.
But it's thixotropic so the vibrations of normal driving allow it to
flow and penetrate the interstices in superficial rust, getting as
close to the bare metal a possible. Seems to be keeping my '89 F250
from getting any worse than it was when I got it a decade ago.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 14:07:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 11:27:36 -0500, Ignoramus20764
wrote:

On 2016-03-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 00:34:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:13:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

So if the protectant is damaged, it will rust? Who would have ever
guessed that? thud



So, what do you like? Do you prefer cathodic protection? Blue
glitter wands? What?
I much prefer a "self healing" protection - like a waxy oil. A mix a
friend of mine uses is a mix of a vegetable oil, beeswax and lanolin.-
applied warm.

The old Waxoyl product worked pretty good. Krown rustproofing is good.
So is RustChek

My 20 year old Ford is virtually rust free - treated with RustChek

Oregon uses crushed clay roof tiles and sand instead of salt, at least
this far down. My '07 Tundra has no rust or salt corrosion, either.


As far as the cathodic protection, what you are buying is an insurance
policy and a little box of snake oil.

Pricy little box.


A friend's 2007 GMC pickup has had aver $5000 worth of bodywork done
under the rust protection warranty. His car, which also has one, has
had over $3000 worth of rust repair done (I think it's a 2005 Chev)

Having grown up in sunny SoCal (+ 1.5 years in Aridzona), I know
nothing about rust except what I've seen and read. What do those
insurance policies cost?


My 2002 Taurus, treated with Waxoyl from new and Krowned twice, has
has no rust repair, and has no rust showing and my 96 Ranger has had
one tiny spot repaired on the left rear fender - a spot the size of a
quarter.

Since you have to reapply oils and waxes regularly, why wouldn't it be
cheaper to find and repair the little nicks in the rubberized
undercoating at the same schedule?


Larry, please get back into the real world, spraying oil is cheaper
than anything!
Basically impossible to find them all, and to repair them you would
need to strip the material back several inches all around, clean and
retreat. Definitely not a trivial job. Ziebart used to just recoat -
with often diasterous results.

Bet that Corvair Gunner's buddy fell through was ziebarted (or a
similar rustproofing)

It was never "rust proofed". Just driven, as I recall.
Bout 1969-70ish.

Don Springs....red smear down the hiway.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 08:36:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 04:29:19 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

Are the installers cleaning and drying the vehicles properly first?
I know it's best to have it done fresh from the factory, while it's
still pristine.


True indeed.

Gunner, who grew up in Michigan, and had more than one nice vehicle
rust away, long long before it was worn out.

Thinking about it, I can't see how the pressure-washer-like spray from
the tires doesn't wipe every bit off the undercarriage in minutes flat
during rains. I'd think snow was easier on it, but I don't drive in
the stuff here.

The bottom 8" of body/bedsides on my Tundra is undercoated (under the
paint) and none of it is chipped/rusted/damaged after 8+ years.

Its not the wet...its the salt that they use to melt the ice on the
roads back there. Hell...even here on the Left coast...vehicles that
are used on the beach on the Pacific Ocean dont get that bad for
decades. Takes 25+ yrs to do that to boat trailers constantly soaked
in the ocean. Ive not seen a rusted out vehicle in 40 yrs that didnt
come from the upper midwest...or was made in the 1930s or before.

Thats one of the reasons I moved out of there (among others). Its
also one of the reasons Ive got little respect for American car
makers. It wouldnt cost all that much more to use stainless steels for
areas that are subject to that corrosive slime. Its also one of the
reasons that they use so much plastic..its cheap, doesnt rust and it
provides very little protection to modern vehicles in crashes..but
does make the vehicles lighter. Much much lighter..hence better gas
mileage.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 08:45:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 04:45:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:23:15 -0500, Ignoramus9970
wrote:

On 2016-03-23, James Waldby wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:28:46 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:09:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" ... wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" ... wrote ...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
The MSDS data suggests that Thompson's Water Seal and LPS-3 have
had their active preservatives removed and are now just wax in solvent.

What were these additives?

I don't remember exactly and I'm keeping my computer clean by not
searching while doing my taxes. You could look.

This is second-hand info, but I remember from discussions a decade ago
with some woodworkers...

The old formula was just some volatile solvent and some kind of wax --
not common paraffin, according to reports, but some similar
hydrocarbon wax. The new formula is water-based. It still contains
some volatiles, but it doesn't spread well and it doesn't soak in as
well.

Amazon reviews of Thompsons 10104 MultiSurface Water Seal Waterproofer
new formula show 4 positive reviews, and 24 critical (1 star of 5)
reviews ... amazingly negative, overall.
http://www.amazon.com/Thompsons-10104-MultiSurface-Water-Seal/product-reviews/B000LNOZ8Y/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt_rgt?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=c ritical


Really amazingly negative reviews!
i

Geeze! Glad Ive got 4 gallons left of a 5 gallon can I bought 10 yrs
ago. The front deck gets done again this spring....oil based..praise
be.

When you run out, switch to Penofin Blue. It's the cheaper one and
works better than their premium product. Penofin works better than
any other finish I've ever tried, and I've tried a lot in this
business. Penofin builds, so you put it on this year, next year, two
years after that, 3-5 years after that, etc. Truly great stuff. I've
done log homes with it and the owners were ecstatic with its look and
performance.

Brush in deck cleaner, rinse, allow to dry for a week, sweep off, and
apply in the morning sun, before it gets too hot. Let it sit and wipe
off any excess. That's a hassle, but it wipes easily and dries hard.
Lay the wipe cloth out flat on the grass to dry completely or it might
self-combust.

Saved! Thanks!

Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 16:41:23 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Christopher Tidy wrote:
Am Dienstag, 22. M?rz 2016 02:02:30 UTC+1 schrieb Ignoramus3828:
I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I've done this before. I used an empty carbon dioxide fire extinguisher. I soldered a garden sprayer nozzle into the output tube and a Schrader valve into a hole in the brass neck. Unscrew the whole top, fill to about 2/3 with oil and then reassemble and charge with air to 8 or 10 bar using a compressor. It works well. I might have a picture of it somewhere.

That would be fun if somebody used it to put out a fire.

I have one done that way, that the grand kids used as a Super Soaker
in the summer time.

I've got a small throw away ABC powder extinguisher that's creeping to the
low side of green on the pressure guage. Tryin to think of fun re-uses for
it once I finally drain the thing for practice and get a new one.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 14:06:21 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 08:36:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 04:29:19 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

Are the installers cleaning and drying the vehicles properly first?
I know it's best to have it done fresh from the factory, while it's
still pristine.


True indeed.

Gunner, who grew up in Michigan, and had more than one nice vehicle
rust away, long long before it was worn out.

Thinking about it, I can't see how the pressure-washer-like spray from
the tires doesn't wipe every bit off the undercarriage in minutes flat
during rains. I'd think snow was easier on it, but I don't drive in
the stuff here.

The bottom 8" of body/bedsides on my Tundra is undercoated (under the
paint) and none of it is chipped/rusted/damaged after 8+ years.

Its not the wet...its the salt that they use to melt the ice on the
roads back there. Hell...even here on the Left coast...vehicles that
are used on the beach on the Pacific Ocean dont get that bad for
decades. Takes 25+ yrs to do that to boat trailers constantly soaked
in the ocean. Ive not seen a rusted out vehicle in 40 yrs that didnt
come from the upper midwest...or was made in the 1930s or before.

Thats one of the reasons I moved out of there (among others). Its
also one of the reasons Ive got little respect for American car
makers. It wouldnt cost all that much more to use stainless steels for
areas that are subject to that corrosive slime. Its also one of the
reasons that they use so much plastic..its cheap, doesnt rust and it
provides very little protection to modern vehicles in crashes..but
does make the vehicles lighter. Much much lighter..hence better gas
mileage.

First, it DOES cost about 3X as much to use stainless. It's not just
the material cost. It's the forming and the joining.

Second, cheap and rust-free is NOT why they use plastic. Lightweight
is why they use it, and the newer moldable composites are a lot
lighter than steel, for a given stiffness and strength. It isn't used
in crash-protection applications, except for some carbon-reinforced
material that, again, is stronger and lighter than steel.

American cars, for decades, have typically been more rust-resistant
than imports. BMW was using more galvanized and zinc-loaded coatings
earlier than US makes, but that's a premium brand -- and you paid for
it, through the nose.

You're talking about old cars and trucks, which is what you have. New
ones are vastly better in terms of rust-resistance.

--
Ed Huntress

Larry Jaques wrote:

I'm surprised that _silicone_ hasn't sued them for slander.


Those boobs! ;-)

Am Samstag, 26. März 2016 19:34:54 UTC+1 schrieb Ignoramus20764:

Hydraulic oil lasts about a year. Used hydraulic oil is nice and
clear, not like black used motor oil. Hydraulic oil also clings better
and has anti-rust additives that are added to resist internal
hydraulic corrosion.

I also did this with hydraulic oil in the fire extinguisher. I'd say my coating lasted about two years in rain and sunlight, but it was on equipment that wasn't moving.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 11:27:36 -0500, Ignoramus20764
wrote:

On 2016-03-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 00:34:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:13:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

So if the protectant is damaged, it will rust? Who would have ever
guessed that? thud



So, what do you like? Do you prefer cathodic protection? Blue
glitter wands? What?
I much prefer a "self healing" protection - like a waxy oil. A mix a
friend of mine uses is a mix of a vegetable oil, beeswax and lanolin.-
applied warm.

The old Waxoyl product worked pretty good. Krown rustproofing is good.
So is RustChek

My 20 year old Ford is virtually rust free - treated with RustChek

Oregon uses crushed clay roof tiles and sand instead of salt, at least
this far down. My '07 Tundra has no rust or salt corrosion, either.


As far as the cathodic protection, what you are buying is an insurance
policy and a little box of snake oil.

Pricy little box.


A friend's 2007 GMC pickup has had aver $5000 worth of bodywork done
under the rust protection warranty. His car, which also has one, has
had over $3000 worth of rust repair done (I think it's a 2005 Chev)

Having grown up in sunny SoCal (+ 1.5 years in Aridzona), I know
nothing about rust except what I've seen and read. What do those
insurance policies cost?


My 2002 Taurus, treated with Waxoyl from new and Krowned twice, has
has no rust repair, and has no rust showing and my 96 Ranger has had
one tiny spot repaired on the left rear fender - a spot the size of a
quarter.

Since you have to reapply oils and waxes regularly, why wouldn't it be
cheaper to find and repair the little nicks in the rubberized
undercoating at the same schedule?


Larry, please get back into the real world, spraying oil is cheaper
than anything!

Is it? What does it cost to clean up the environment after each car
drips gallons of used oil into it?

--
Doctors prescribe medicine of which they know little,
to cure diseases of which they know less,
in human beings of which they know nothing.
--Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire, about 250 years ago

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 19:23:19 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

I'm surprised that _silicone_ hasn't sued them for slander.

Those boobs! ;-)

Typical male response.

--
Doctors prescribe medicine of which they know little,
to cure diseases of which they know less,
in human beings of which they know nothing.
--Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire, about 250 years ago

On 3/22/2016 11:40 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Ignoramus3828 wrote:
I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

Or filter it, add it to a turkey fryer and toss a few toilet seal
rings (beeswax) in.

They are softer than paraffin wax and don't crack as much in cold
weather. I brush melted toilet bowl wax onto the ends of cut logs to
reduce splitting as they dry and shrink.

The MSDS data suggests that Thompson's Water Seal and LPS-3 have had
their active preservatives removed and are now just wax in solvent.

What were these additives?


Airplane oil

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Am Samstag, 26. März 2016 19:34:54 UTC+1 schrieb Ignoramus20764:

Hydraulic oil lasts about a year. Used hydraulic oil is nice and
clear, not like black used motor oil. Hydraulic oil also clings
better
and has anti-rust additives that are added to resist internal
hydraulic corrosion.

I also did this with hydraulic oil in the fire extinguisher. I'd say
my coating lasted about two years in rain and sunlight, but it was on
equipment that wasn't moving.

==========

Rust developed on my unpainted bucket loader only where hydraulic oil
leaks washed off the LPS-3.
--jsw

Am Sonntag, 27. März 2016 13:22:37 UTC+2 schrieb Jim Wilkins:

I also did this with hydraulic oil in the fire extinguisher. I'd say
my coating lasted about two years in rain and sunlight, but it was on
equipment that wasn't moving.

==========

Rust developed on my unpainted bucket loader only where hydraulic oil
leaks washed off the LPS-3.

I was using the oil to prevent somewhat rusty equipment from getting more rusty. I wouldn't have noticed a minor rust stain, but it seemed to work and there was a dark, oily coating on the surface for a year or two. However, I also had some CorrosionX HD, which is designed for the purpose. I put some of this on equipment outdoors in 2010. There is still a noticeable coating left today.

On 2016-03-27, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 11:27:36 -0500, Ignoramus20764
wrote:

On 2016-03-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 00:34:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:13:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:37:59 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:21:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:02:25 -0500, Ignoramus3828
wrote:

I need to spray used oil on a number of truck frames etc.

I would like to know what is a good solution, preferably compressor
driven, that would make a good spray pattern and preferably not too
much overspray.

I am not interested in opinions about advantages and disadvantages of
used oil spraying, I just want to know how to spray it.

Besides it probably being illegal in Illinoise and salt/water/dust
would likely quickly erase it from the frame, MOST people use a
rubberized undercoating for frames and underbodies, Ig. Why not
recycle the oil and steamclean + undercoat your trucks, for a
once-in-a-lifetime fix?

Otherwise, what about using an existing aerator spray tip and
adjusting the air pressure to control the overspray? Olive oil can be
sprayed with a hand-pump and regular paint spray can nozzle. Grab a
magnifying glass and look at pressure washer or paint gun tips for
clues into spray containment. It's possible that an HVLP paint
sprayer might work, so you might give that a try, too.
http://tinyurl.com/3muqz79


I dislike the oil spray concept from an eco standpoint, and I'm
surprised it isn't illegal. Where's the freakin' EPA now? Watch them
fine a person $50k for leaking a quart of oil onto the ground, but
they let 1,000,000 people leak oil onto the street and flow into lakes
and sewer systems? Go figure!
Rubberized undercoating guarantees the vehicle WILL rust as soon as
ithe rubber film is damaged - and it WILL be damaged.

So if the protectant is damaged, it will rust? Who would have ever
guessed that? thud



So, what do you like? Do you prefer cathodic protection? Blue
glitter wands? What?
I much prefer a "self healing" protection - like a waxy oil. A mix a
friend of mine uses is a mix of a vegetable oil, beeswax and lanolin.-
applied warm.

The old Waxoyl product worked pretty good. Krown rustproofing is good.
So is RustChek

My 20 year old Ford is virtually rust free - treated with RustChek

Oregon uses crushed clay roof tiles and sand instead of salt, at least
this far down. My '07 Tundra has no rust or salt corrosion, either.


As far as the cathodic protection, what you are buying is an insurance
policy and a little box of snake oil.

Pricy little box.


A friend's 2007 GMC pickup has had aver $5000 worth of bodywork done
under the rust protection warranty. His car, which also has one, has
had over $3000 worth of rust repair done (I think it's a 2005 Chev)

Having grown up in sunny SoCal (+ 1.5 years in Aridzona), I know
nothing about rust except what I've seen and read. What do those
insurance policies cost?


My 2002 Taurus, treated with Waxoyl from new and Krowned twice, has
has no rust repair, and has no rust showing and my 96 Ranger has had
one tiny spot repaired on the left rear fender - a spot the size of a
quarter.

Since you have to reapply oils and waxes regularly, why wouldn't it be
cheaper to find and repair the little nicks in the rubberized
undercoating at the same schedule?


Larry, please get back into the real world, spraying oil is cheaper
than anything!

Is it? What does it cost to clean up the environment after each car
drips gallons of used oil into it?


Oil does not drip, once applied.

i

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:59:31 -0500, Ignoramus991
wrote:

On 2016-03-27, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 11:27:36 -0500, Ignoramus20764
wrote:
Larry, please get back into the real world, spraying oil is cheaper
than anything!

Is it? What does it cost to clean up the environment after each car
drips gallons of used oil into it?

Oil does not drip, once applied.

OK, so everyone sprays their oil without ever any getting on the
ground.

It never drips off on the road.

It never gets hit with dust which absorbs the oil and drops to the
road.

And we all live happily ever after. Right.

Um, what were you just saying about "real world"? g

--
Doctors prescribe medicine of which they know little,
to cure diseases of which they know less,
in human beings of which they know nothing.
--Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire, about 250 years ago

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 17:41:56 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:59:31 -0500, Ignoramus991
wrote:

On 2016-03-27, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 11:27:36 -0500, Ignoramus20764
wrote:
Larry, please get back into the real world, spraying oil is cheaper
than anything!

Is it? What does it cost to clean up the environment after each car
drips gallons of used oil into it?

Oil does not drip, once applied.

OK, so everyone sprays their oil without ever any getting on the
ground.

It never drips off on the road.

It never gets hit with dust which absorbs the oil and drops to the
road.

And we all live happily ever after. Right.

Um, what were you just saying about "real world"? g

The road is made of oil. That's where asphalt comes from.

95% of the paved roads in the US are made from it.

--
Ed Huntress

writes:

"wool oil" - aka Lanolin is also used commercially.

Here in southern Norway, the roads are kept more or less continually wet
with salt throughout the winter. Buying a used car that's been "rust
proofed" with Tectyl, or some other such material, is a dangerous
gamble. As often as not, you'll find that the metal is mostly rust
behind the smooth looking surface. Hacking at the bottom panels of the
body with a screwdriver to look for places where there's no original
metal left is part of the mandated bi-yearly roadworthiness test.

I prefer older cars (my daily driver is a '98 Range Rover, and I also
own a '66 Land Rover), and like many, many others around here, I swear
by lanolin. It covers the entire underside of the car, including the
insides of all frame elements and other channels, doors, fenders, etc.
The stuff crawls deep into crevices and vertically up panels, and stops
exising rust from spreading, and new rust from beginning. There's very
little dripping, and lanolin is environmentally friendly. Before it
became available over here, spraying used engine oil (and then going for
a drive on a dusty dirt road to seal it in) was a common practice.

Here's how well it sticks: the left half of this car was sprayed with
lanolin, the right half with a mineral oil (not used engine oil, but a
mineral oil specifically made for this purpose) -- and the picture was
taken after the car had then been in daily use for six months:

http://www.antirust.no/wp-content/up...behandling.jpg

-tih
--
Elections cannot be allowed to change anything. --Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble

Ed Huntress writes:

You're talking about old cars and trucks, which is what you have. New
ones are vastly better in terms of rust-resistance.

Seems they're getting less so, though. A neighbor of mine works at a
garage that preps new GM cars for sale. The cars have come across the
Atlantic by ship, and the first thing they have to do to them is remove
the rust that has accumulated in the weak spots, especially along the
welded seam at the bottom of the doors. Didn't used to be that way, he
says -- and he suspects it's simply about the quality of the steel.

-tih
--
Elections cannot be allowed to change anything. --Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble