On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:23:59 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:09:20 -0600, Ignoramus3023
wrote:

On 2015-12-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 11:37:34 -0600, Ignoramus29630
wrote:

On 2015-12-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:07:24 -0600, Ignoramus7100
wrote:

On 2015-12-24, Tom Gardner wrote:
A year after selling the body of production equipment I'm still left
with presses, machine tools, welding equipment, office equipment,
forklifts and tons of other stuff. There will be a state boulevard I
would like to just hire a person to advertise, meet with buyers and sell
the stuff for a reasonable return. What would be the best way to find
somebody and what would be a good way to compensate him?

You can sell everything in an auction.

You certainly can. I've seen whole towns and girls' -virginity- sold
on eBay, for a taste of the gamut. g


Call Cincinnati Industrial Auctioneers.

That's probably not a bad idea. Auctioneers can jack up the action so
idiots are bidding against each other enough to pay for the auction
fees, and get him a better price than a "help me out" ad.

Even if not, auctioneers will help get a more or less fair price where
a reseller can buy and still make some money resellin on ebay.

Scrap metal is worth nothing nowadays and expect to get almost nothing
for scrap machinery, or even pay for removal.

Gawd, scrap iron is back down to $15/T? It's hardly worth the gas.
https://rockawayrecycling.com/scrap-metal-prices/

It is worth about 50-60/ton in chicago in a semi truck quantity.

That much? Wow, is someone remelting it near there?


Yep. The US is a great industrial giant.

i

it was $200+ a year ago.

So much for that "great industrial giant"
The asian tiger lost it's teeth over the last year, so it's appetite
for American scrap has declined significantly.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:21:03 PM UTC-5, Clare wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there, and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid for it, and it kept going up.. The guy that got it paid more than the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile.. I thought,"What a wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ignoramus3023 wrote:
On 2015-12-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 11:37:34 -0600, Ignoramus29630
wrote:

On 2015-12-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:07:24 -0600, Ignoramus7100
wrote:

On 2015-12-24, Tom Gardner wrote:
A year after selling the body of production equipment I'm still left
with presses, machine tools, welding equipment, office equipment,
forklifts and tons of other stuff. There will be a state boulevard I
would like to just hire a person to advertise, meet with buyers and sell
the stuff for a reasonable return. What would be the best way to find
somebody and what would be a good way to compensate him?

You can sell everything in an auction.

You certainly can. I've seen whole towns and girls' -virginity- sold
on eBay, for a taste of the gamut. g


Call Cincinnati Industrial Auctioneers.

That's probably not a bad idea. Auctioneers can jack up the action so
idiots are bidding against each other enough to pay for the auction
fees, and get him a better price than a "help me out" ad.

Even if not, auctioneers will help get a more or less fair price where
a reseller can buy and still make some money resellin on ebay.

Scrap metal is worth nothing nowadays and expect to get almost nothing
for scrap machinery, or even pay for removal.

Gawd, scrap iron is back down to $15/T? It's hardly worth the gas.
https://rockawayrecycling.com/scrap-metal-prices/

It is worth about 50-60/ton in chicago in a semi truck quantity.

That much? Wow, is someone remelting it near there?


Yep. The US is a great industrial giant.

I was suprised that most of the stuff at the not quite local steel yard is
domestic. The story was the really low grade scrap goes to china, the
better stuff stays here for remelting.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 08:21:57 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

Although I have a contractor's license (which I'm letting lapse next
year when I fully retire) the largest jobs I've done have been
porches
and decks. Now, in semi-retirement, I'm doing only smaller jobs.
It's
averaging 3 hours a week, but this week will be heavy, maybe 6.
That will pick up in Spring, but I'm happy with a few small jobs.
This
retirement stuff is FUN!

Are you the "Home and Garden Handyman"?

That's me, until Oct 2016. But I'm in semi-retirement mode, accepting
only those jobs I wish to take.

--
Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes.
Art is knowing which ones to keep.
-- Scott Adams, 'The Dilbert Principle'

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 10:28:30 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton
wrote:

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:21:03 PM UTC-5, Clare wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there, and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid for it, and it kept going up. The guy that got it paid more than the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile. I thought,"What a wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ayup. NC doesnt have a large surplus of machine tools as do other
states and they will go for prime amounts. Iggy will verify that in
once industrial areas like Chicago and surrounds..stuff will go much
much cheaper.

A perfect example of this is the difference in price between single
phase and 3phase versions of welders. Hobby guys keep the market
going on single phase machinery

Gunner

On 2015-12-28, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:09:20 -0600, Ignoramus3023
wrote:

On 2015-12-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 11:37:34 -0600, Ignoramus29630
wrote:

On 2015-12-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:07:24 -0600, Ignoramus7100
wrote:

On 2015-12-24, Tom Gardner wrote:
A year after selling the body of production equipment I'm still left
with presses, machine tools, welding equipment, office equipment,
forklifts and tons of other stuff. There will be a state boulevard I
would like to just hire a person to advertise, meet with buyers and sell
the stuff for a reasonable return. What would be the best way to find
somebody and what would be a good way to compensate him?

You can sell everything in an auction.

You certainly can. I've seen whole towns and girls' -virginity- sold
on eBay, for a taste of the gamut. g


Call Cincinnati Industrial Auctioneers.

That's probably not a bad idea. Auctioneers can jack up the action so
idiots are bidding against each other enough to pay for the auction
fees, and get him a better price than a "help me out" ad.

Even if not, auctioneers will help get a more or less fair price where
a reseller can buy and still make some money resellin on ebay.

Scrap metal is worth nothing nowadays and expect to get almost nothing
for scrap machinery, or even pay for removal.

Gawd, scrap iron is back down to $15/T? It's hardly worth the gas.
https://rockawayrecycling.com/scrap-metal-prices/

It is worth about 50-60/ton in chicago in a semi truck quantity.

That much? Wow, is someone remelting it near there?


Yep. The US is a great industrial giant.

Perhaps. But if so, why does Gunner make his living decommissioning
(and you hauling off) the dregs of so many failed businesses? sigh
Sad, it is.


Not sure about other people.

As for myself, I feel very good about the industrial potential and
future of the United States.

The churn in businesses, bankrupting of badly managed or obsolete
companies, and competition, is what keeps America great.

i

On 2015-12-28, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 12/28/2015 12:24 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Perhaps. But if so, why does Gunner make his living decommissioning
(and you hauling off) the dregs of so many failed businesses? sigh
Sad, it is.


I wonder if the owners know he does this or do they just show up one
morning to a clean shop?

Many owners come to their shops on Monday mornings to find them
"clean" of MCM 500 and other heavy copper wire.

i

I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there, and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid for it, and it kept going up. The guy that got it paid more than the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile. I thought,"What a wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ayup. NC doesnt have a large surplus of machine tools as do other
states and they will go for prime amounts. Iggy will verify that in
once industrial areas like Chicago and surrounds..stuff will go much
much cheaper.

A perfect example of this is the difference in price between single
phase and 3phase versions of welders. Hobby guys keep the market
going on single phase machinery

Gunner

Yeah, if I remember right, it was single phase 220 welder. But you'd think a guy would check the new price on something before heading to an auction. I still hold that he was about half a bubble out of plumb.

On 2015-12-28, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ignoramus3023 wrote:
On 2015-12-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 11:37:34 -0600, Ignoramus29630
wrote:

On 2015-12-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:07:24 -0600, Ignoramus7100
wrote:

On 2015-12-24, Tom Gardner wrote:
A year after selling the body of production equipment I'm still left
with presses, machine tools, welding equipment, office equipment,
forklifts and tons of other stuff. There will be a state boulevard I
would like to just hire a person to advertise, meet with buyers and sell
the stuff for a reasonable return. What would be the best way to find
somebody and what would be a good way to compensate him?

You can sell everything in an auction.

You certainly can. I've seen whole towns and girls' -virginity- sold
on eBay, for a taste of the gamut. g


Call Cincinnati Industrial Auctioneers.

That's probably not a bad idea. Auctioneers can jack up the action so
idiots are bidding against each other enough to pay for the auction
fees, and get him a better price than a "help me out" ad.

Even if not, auctioneers will help get a more or less fair price where
a reseller can buy and still make some money resellin on ebay.

Scrap metal is worth nothing nowadays and expect to get almost nothing
for scrap machinery, or even pay for removal.

Gawd, scrap iron is back down to $15/T? It's hardly worth the gas.
https://rockawayrecycling.com/scrap-metal-prices/

It is worth about 50-60/ton in chicago in a semi truck quantity.

That much? Wow, is someone remelting it near there?


Yep. The US is a great industrial giant.

I was suprised that most of the stuff at the not quite local steel yard is
domestic. The story was the really low grade scrap goes to china, the
better stuff stays here for remelting.



A lot of scrap is remelted here by the likes of Nucor.

i

On 2015-12-28, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

I could never get that much for any Bridgeport

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner

"Garrett Fulton" wrote in message
...
I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I
had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there,
and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid
for it, and it kept going up. The guy that got it paid more than
the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping
the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile. I thought,"What a
wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things
happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ayup. NC doesnt have a large surplus of machine tools as do other
states and they will go for prime amounts. Iggy will verify that in
once industrial areas like Chicago and surrounds..stuff will go much
much cheaper.

A perfect example of this is the difference in price between single
phase and 3phase versions of welders. Hobby guys keep the market
going on single phase machinery

Gunner

Yeah, if I remember right, it was single phase 220 welder. But you'd
think a guy would check the new price on something before heading to
an auction. I still hold that he was about half a bubble out of
plumb.

==================

I rarely could find out enough from the auction announcement to
identify and determine the price of most of the items. Usually I
looked up and remembered the price of presumably similar imports.

How much would you guess a "corner notcher" is worth, without seeing
it?

-jsw

Gunner Asch on Tue, 29 Dec 2015 02:11:14 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner

Had a friend buy an older Cincinnati mill. Cost about three times
what he paid for it, to get it shipped to Seattle. Still "cheaper"
than local options.
--
pyotr
Job creation and destruction are both relentless.
The small difference between the two is what we call prosperity.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 02:11:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner
Same thing here - lots of businesses closing down (big business) but
lots of small business strting up - lots of high tech - and quite a
few "farm based businesses" - making things like bolts for Ford - - -
and anything else you can imagine.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 06:11:45 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton
wrote:

I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there, and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid for it, and it kept going up. The guy that got it paid more than the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile. I thought,"What a wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ayup. NC doesnt have a large surplus of machine tools as do other
states and they will go for prime amounts. Iggy will verify that in
once industrial areas like Chicago and surrounds..stuff will go much
much cheaper.

A perfect example of this is the difference in price between single
phase and 3phase versions of welders. Hobby guys keep the market
going on single phase machinery

Gunner

Yeah, if I remember right, it was single phase 220 welder. But you'd think a guy would check the new price on something before heading to an auction. I still hold that he was about half a bubble out of plumb.
Had to be 2 od 'em to get the price up.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:03:21 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 02:11:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner
Same thing here - lots of businesses closing down (big business) but
lots of small business strting up - lots of high tech - and quite a
few "farm based businesses" - making things like bolts for Ford - - -
and anything else you can imagine.

But the reasons are different for California and Canada. The Canadian
automotive Tier 1 and Tier 2 manufacturers got caught in a double
bind. Part of it was the recession and part was the bargains made with
the unions here in the US. The US car makers had to bring some of
their part-making and subassembly work back to the US to compensate
for the unions' give-backs. So Canada is doing more Tier 3 work now.
That's the smaller contract job shops.

That's all in general -- mostly GM, in fact. Ford is a little
different. I have some research lined up to do on Ford this coming
spring.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:07:40 -0600, Ignoramus17007
wrote:

On 2015-12-28, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 12/28/2015 12:24 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Perhaps. But if so, why does Gunner make his living decommissioning
(and you hauling off) the dregs of so many failed businesses? sigh
Sad, it is.


I wonder if the owners know he does this or do they just show up one
morning to a clean shop?

Many owners come to their shops on Monday mornings to find them
"clean" of MCM 500 and other heavy copper wire.

i

True indeed. Which is why most electrical supply yards lock up the
keys to the forklifts when they go home

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:06:12 -0600, Ignoramus17007
wrote:

On 2015-12-28, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:09:20 -0600, Ignoramus3023
wrote:

On 2015-12-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 11:37:34 -0600, Ignoramus29630
wrote:

On 2015-12-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:07:24 -0600, Ignoramus7100
wrote:

On 2015-12-24, Tom Gardner wrote:
A year after selling the body of production equipment I'm still left
with presses, machine tools, welding equipment, office equipment,
forklifts and tons of other stuff. There will be a state boulevard I
would like to just hire a person to advertise, meet with buyers and sell
the stuff for a reasonable return. What would be the best way to find
somebody and what would be a good way to compensate him?

You can sell everything in an auction.

You certainly can. I've seen whole towns and girls' -virginity- sold
on eBay, for a taste of the gamut. g


Call Cincinnati Industrial Auctioneers.

That's probably not a bad idea. Auctioneers can jack up the action so
idiots are bidding against each other enough to pay for the auction
fees, and get him a better price than a "help me out" ad.

Even if not, auctioneers will help get a more or less fair price where
a reseller can buy and still make some money resellin on ebay.

Scrap metal is worth nothing nowadays and expect to get almost nothing
for scrap machinery, or even pay for removal.

Gawd, scrap iron is back down to $15/T? It's hardly worth the gas.
https://rockawayrecycling.com/scrap-metal-prices/

It is worth about 50-60/ton in chicago in a semi truck quantity.

That much? Wow, is someone remelting it near there?


Yep. The US is a great industrial giant.

Perhaps. But if so, why does Gunner make his living decommissioning
(and you hauling off) the dregs of so many failed businesses? sigh
Sad, it is.


Not sure about other people.

As for myself, I feel very good about the industrial potential and
future of the United States.

The churn in businesses, bankrupting of badly managed or obsolete
companies, and competition, is what keeps America great.

i

And when all those people are out of work and are now on the Dole....

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 06:11:45 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton
wrote:

I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there, and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid for it, and it kept going up. The guy that got it paid more than the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile. I thought,"What a wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ayup. NC doesnt have a large surplus of machine tools as do other
states and they will go for prime amounts. Iggy will verify that in
once industrial areas like Chicago and surrounds..stuff will go much
much cheaper.

A perfect example of this is the difference in price between single
phase and 3phase versions of welders. Hobby guys keep the market
going on single phase machinery

Gunner

Yeah, if I remember right, it was single phase 220 welder. But you'd think a guy would check the new price on something before heading to an auction. I still hold that he was about half a bubble out of plumb.

its called "auction fever" followed shortly thereafter by "buyers
remorse". Pretty common in some circles. Even pros can fall into
that hole. Like a gambling addiction. Not for the money..for the
"high"

Gunner

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:04:41 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 06:11:45 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton
wrote:

I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there, and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid for it, and it kept going up. The guy that got it paid more than the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile. I thought,"What a wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ayup. NC doesnt have a large surplus of machine tools as do other
states and they will go for prime amounts. Iggy will verify that in
once industrial areas like Chicago and surrounds..stuff will go much
much cheaper.

A perfect example of this is the difference in price between single
phase and 3phase versions of welders. Hobby guys keep the market
going on single phase machinery

Gunner

Yeah, if I remember right, it was single phase 220 welder. But you'd think a guy would check the new price on something before heading to an auction. I still hold that he was about half a bubble out of plumb.
Had to be 2 od 'em to get the price up.

Or one guy running the other up and bailing out before the last bid.
Shills do it all the time..so do "friends".

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:03:21 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 02:11:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner
Same thing here - lots of businesses closing down (big business) but
lots of small business strting up - lots of high tech - and quite a
few "farm based businesses" - making things like bolts for Ford - - -
and anything else you can imagine.

Ayup..and in 5 yrs...65% of them will be out of business. Shrug

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:15:21 -0600, Ignoramus17007
wrote:

On 2015-12-28, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

I could never get that much for any Bridgeport
'
Thats because of where you are. Take a good one to the Dakotas.

Gunner


Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:34:19 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:03:21 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 02:11:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner
Same thing here - lots of businesses closing down (big business) but
lots of small business strting up - lots of high tech - and quite a
few "farm based businesses" - making things like bolts for Ford - - -
and anything else you can imagine.

But the reasons are different for California and Canada. The Canadian
automotive Tier 1 and Tier 2 manufacturers got caught in a double
bind. Part of it was the recession and part was the bargains made with
the unions here in the US. The US car makers had to bring some of
their part-making and subassembly work back to the US to compensate
for the unions' give-backs. So Canada is doing more Tier 3 work now.
That's the smaller contract job shops.

That's all in general -- mostly GM, in fact. Ford is a little
different. I have some research lined up to do on Ford this coming
spring.
The problem in Canada was the switch from the Canada US Auto pact to
"North American Free Trade" - and the "alliance between the elephant
and the mouse". There is no way that is an equal partnership and the
'mericans pulled a LOT of jobs out of Canada just because they could.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:47:11 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:04:41 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 06:11:45 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton
wrote:

I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there, and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid for it, and it kept going up. The guy that got it paid more than the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile. I thought,"What a wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ayup. NC doesnt have a large surplus of machine tools as do other
states and they will go for prime amounts. Iggy will verify that in
once industrial areas like Chicago and surrounds..stuff will go much
much cheaper.

A perfect example of this is the difference in price between single
phase and 3phase versions of welders. Hobby guys keep the market
going on single phase machinery

Gunner

Yeah, if I remember right, it was single phase 220 welder. But you'd think a guy would check the new price on something before heading to an auction. I still hold that he was about half a bubble out of plumb.
Had to be 2 od 'em to get the price up.

Or one guy running the other up and bailing out before the last bid.
Shills do it all the time..so do "friends".
It only works if the last bidder is stupid enough to be the last
bidder. Otherwise the idiot bidding him up gets stuck with something
he has no need for at a stupid price.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:48:06 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:03:21 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 02:11:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner
Same thing here - lots of businesses closing down (big business) but
lots of small business strting up - lots of high tech - and quite a
few "farm based businesses" - making things like bolts for Ford - - -
and anything else you can imagine.

Ayup..and in 5 yrs...65% of them will be out of business. Shrug
Not jusdging from the last 10 or 15. You have to understand the
"mennonite mafia" running these shops.


buy from a jew, sell to a scottsman, and make a profit

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:09:24 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:34:19 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:03:21 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 02:11:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner
Same thing here - lots of businesses closing down (big business) but
lots of small business strting up - lots of high tech - and quite a
few "farm based businesses" - making things like bolts for Ford - - -
and anything else you can imagine.

But the reasons are different for California and Canada. The Canadian
automotive Tier 1 and Tier 2 manufacturers got caught in a double
bind. Part of it was the recession and part was the bargains made with
the unions here in the US. The US car makers had to bring some of
their part-making and subassembly work back to the US to compensate
for the unions' give-backs. So Canada is doing more Tier 3 work now.
That's the smaller contract job shops.

That's all in general -- mostly GM, in fact. Ford is a little
different. I have some research lined up to do on Ford this coming
spring.
The problem in Canada was the switch from the Canada US Auto pact to
"North American Free Trade" - and the "alliance between the elephant
and the mouse". There is no way that is an equal partnership and the
'mericans pulled a LOT of jobs out of Canada just because they could.

They put them there in the first place "because they could." There was
little to recommend Canada as a big automotive component/assembly
supplier to US OEMs in the first place except low price.

Then the Canadian Tier 1/Tier 2 manufacturers made big investments (we
had Wasino turning machines in 24 Canadian plants when I was marketing
manager there; that was more than we had in US top-tier suppliers) and
they held on to that market for years. As the Canadian dollar rose
against the US dollar, the writing was on the wall.

Canada's dependency on the US automotive suppliers was a mistake, as
was California's dependency on military aerospace business.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:11:32 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:47:11 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:04:41 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 06:11:45 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton
wrote:

I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there, and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid for it, and it kept going up. The guy that got it paid more than the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile. I thought,"What a wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ayup. NC doesnt have a large surplus of machine tools as do other
states and they will go for prime amounts. Iggy will verify that in
once industrial areas like Chicago and surrounds..stuff will go much
much cheaper.

A perfect example of this is the difference in price between single
phase and 3phase versions of welders. Hobby guys keep the market
going on single phase machinery

Gunner

Yeah, if I remember right, it was single phase 220 welder. But you'd think a guy would check the new price on something before heading to an auction. I still hold that he was about half a bubble out of plumb.
Had to be 2 od 'em to get the price up.

Or one guy running the other up and bailing out before the last bid.
Shills do it all the time..so do "friends".
It only works if the last bidder is stupid enough to be the last
bidder. Otherwise the idiot bidding him up gets stuck with something
he has no need for at a stupid price.

Hence the term "auction fever"..when your brains leak down your leg
and you bid stupid amounts of money for Stuff. The auctioneer can
always take it to the next auction if his shill ****s up.

Ah...Ive played that game for customers for years. Gets em more money
for their goods. One simply has to read the customers and get a feel
for the dumb ones. Which is why they usually..usually sell the small
stuff first.,.or some of the small stuff first...shrug.

Most of the time the customers are thinking rational
humans..occasionally you will spot a nitwit..

Thats why the sellers pay commisions...shrug again.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:06:12 -0600, Ignoramus17007
wrote:

On 2015-12-28, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:09:20 -0600, Ignoramus3023
wrote:

On 2015-12-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 11:37:34 -0600, Ignoramus29630
wrote:

On 2015-12-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:07:24 -0600, Ignoramus7100
wrote:

On 2015-12-24, Tom Gardner wrote:
A year after selling the body of production equipment I'm still left
with presses, machine tools, welding equipment, office equipment,
forklifts and tons of other stuff. There will be a state boulevard I
would like to just hire a person to advertise, meet with buyers and sell
the stuff for a reasonable return. What would be the best way to find
somebody and what would be a good way to compensate him?

You can sell everything in an auction.

You certainly can. I've seen whole towns and girls' -virginity- sold
on eBay, for a taste of the gamut. g


Call Cincinnati Industrial Auctioneers.

That's probably not a bad idea. Auctioneers can jack up the action so
idiots are bidding against each other enough to pay for the auction
fees, and get him a better price than a "help me out" ad.

Even if not, auctioneers will help get a more or less fair price where
a reseller can buy and still make some money resellin on ebay.

Scrap metal is worth nothing nowadays and expect to get almost nothing
for scrap machinery, or even pay for removal.

Gawd, scrap iron is back down to $15/T? It's hardly worth the gas.
https://rockawayrecycling.com/scrap-metal-prices/

It is worth about 50-60/ton in chicago in a semi truck quantity.

That much? Wow, is someone remelting it near there?


Yep. The US is a great industrial giant.

Perhaps. But if so, why does Gunner make his living decommissioning
(and you hauling off) the dregs of so many failed businesses? sigh
Sad, it is.


Not sure about other people.

As for myself, I feel very good about the industrial potential and
future of the United States.

I'm deeply disturbed by too many trends, so no rose tinted glasses for
me.


The churn in businesses, bankrupting of badly managed or obsolete
companies, and competition, is what keeps America great.

I understand what you're saying, but your focus seems to be too tight.
Are you not seeing the mass exodus of business from the USA? It's
wholesale loss, not just a bit of redistribution.

--
Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes.
Art is knowing which ones to keep.
-- Scott Adams, 'The Dilbert Principle'

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:48:06 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:03:21 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 02:11:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner
Same thing here - lots of businesses closing down (big business) but
lots of small business strting up - lots of high tech - and quite a
few "farm based businesses" - making things like bolts for Ford - - -
and anything else you can imagine.

Ayup..and in 5 yrs...65% of them will be out of business. Shrug

I thought the figure was 90%.
http://tinyurl.com/nonqaov Forbes agrees.
http://tinyurl.com/mrtjdss 400k new biz/470k dying each year
http://tinyurl.com/zwdoosq long term unemployment down to 32%

Wish I had Ig's glasses.

--
Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes.
Art is knowing which ones to keep.
-- Scott Adams, 'The Dilbert Principle'

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:16:55 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:06:12 -0600, Ignoramus17007
wrote:

On 2015-12-28, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:09:20 -0600, Ignoramus3023
wrote:

On 2015-12-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 11:37:34 -0600, Ignoramus29630
wrote:

On 2015-12-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:07:24 -0600, Ignoramus7100
wrote:

On 2015-12-24, Tom Gardner wrote:
A year after selling the body of production equipment I'm still left
with presses, machine tools, welding equipment, office equipment,
forklifts and tons of other stuff. There will be a state boulevard I
would like to just hire a person to advertise, meet with buyers and sell
the stuff for a reasonable return. What would be the best way to find
somebody and what would be a good way to compensate him?

You can sell everything in an auction.

You certainly can. I've seen whole towns and girls' -virginity- sold
on eBay, for a taste of the gamut. g


Call Cincinnati Industrial Auctioneers.

That's probably not a bad idea. Auctioneers can jack up the action so
idiots are bidding against each other enough to pay for the auction
fees, and get him a better price than a "help me out" ad.

Even if not, auctioneers will help get a more or less fair price where
a reseller can buy and still make some money resellin on ebay.

Scrap metal is worth nothing nowadays and expect to get almost nothing
for scrap machinery, or even pay for removal.

Gawd, scrap iron is back down to $15/T? It's hardly worth the gas.
https://rockawayrecycling.com/scrap-metal-prices/

It is worth about 50-60/ton in chicago in a semi truck quantity.

That much? Wow, is someone remelting it near there?


Yep. The US is a great industrial giant.

Perhaps. But if so, why does Gunner make his living decommissioning
(and you hauling off) the dregs of so many failed businesses? sigh
Sad, it is.


Not sure about other people.

As for myself, I feel very good about the industrial potential and
future of the United States.

I'm deeply disturbed by too many trends, so no rose tinted glasses for
me.


The churn in businesses, bankrupting of badly managed or obsolete
companies, and competition, is what keeps America great.

I understand what you're saying, but your focus seems to be too tight.
Are you not seeing the mass exodus of business from the USA? It's
wholesale loss, not just a bit of redistribution.

You're about 15 years behind the times, Larry. There is no mass exodus
of "business." The exodus to offshoring really didn't last long. The
exodus recently was of headquarters operations and the nominal base of
the companies, not of the actual manufacturing. That was almost
entirely a paper move, for tax purposes. And much of that was stopped
with some tax-law changes about a year ago.

What Gunner is seeing is mostly the result of the segment of industry
he deals with -- the absolute bottom feeders. Mismanaged,
under-capitalized, dragging their feet technologically, they are
declining and the business they did (which is still there) is being
picked up by better, smarter companies.

You can't start a mold shop today with a Bridgeport and a Logan lathe
in a garage. Technology has moved on. And if you try to run a business
today the way you ran it 20 years ago, you're toast.

Then Gunner gets to help move the machines out and Iggy buys them for
scrap. Welcome to the 21st century -- which you'll probably catch up
with in a decade or two.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:22:05 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:09:24 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:34:19 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:03:21 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 02:11:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 12:21:09 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:30:14 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:38:13 -0500, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 12/27/2015 7:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:

Actually there is a market for the shafting but probably not a ton of
money. There are quite a few folks out there setting up line shaft
driven shops and museums. The problem is getting the info out.

What is the Bridgeport? 3phase? Tooling?


The BP is my pride and Joy! 3-ph, 2hp. variable speed. Pretty complete
R-8 tooling, XY DRO, power x. One shot oiler. Like new, not a scratch
(almost)

So take it home and use it in your home shop. Put in your will Roger
gets it when you "loose interest"

Most they are worth is about $5-7k in good condition..at best. And at
an auction..probably about half that..at most.

Most..most auctions are held for dealers..who pay much less than full
market value so they can sell at market value +/- and make a living.
Id never pay full boat for a piece of machinery. Ever.

Gunner
But if a hobyist (or 2) was at the same auction you wouldn't get it
either. I've seen "home shop compatible" equipment bir up to almost
new list at auctions in my area. There is a local auction place that
sells fleet vehicles, banctrupt business eqipment and stock, recovered
goods from the PD, equipment from local school boards etc - and very
little machine tool equipment goes cheap.

Most...most of that is due to location. Frankly...some places one can
get a lathe/mill/drill press very cheaply..others..they can go high as
hell.

Here in California, where manufacturing is fleeing the state..but is
close to Mexico..machine tools will sell rather low if they are
vintage, but semi modern CNC will sell higher than one would expect as
they are taken south to Mexico where there is a bigger more vibrant
market.

Gunner
Same thing here - lots of businesses closing down (big business) but
lots of small business strting up - lots of high tech - and quite a
few "farm based businesses" - making things like bolts for Ford - - -
and anything else you can imagine.

But the reasons are different for California and Canada. The Canadian
automotive Tier 1 and Tier 2 manufacturers got caught in a double
bind. Part of it was the recession and part was the bargains made with
the unions here in the US. The US car makers had to bring some of
their part-making and subassembly work back to the US to compensate
for the unions' give-backs. So Canada is doing more Tier 3 work now.
That's the smaller contract job shops.

That's all in general -- mostly GM, in fact. Ford is a little
different. I have some research lined up to do on Ford this coming
spring.
The problem in Canada was the switch from the Canada US Auto pact to
"North American Free Trade" - and the "alliance between the elephant
and the mouse". There is no way that is an equal partnership and the
'mericans pulled a LOT of jobs out of Canada just because they could.

They put them there in the first place "because they could." There was
little to recommend Canada as a big automotive component/assembly
supplier to US OEMs in the first place except low price.

Some of the highest quality automobiles in North America come out of
Canadian plants. Low price doesn't come into the equation - with
health care and other benefits, and the highly unionized workforce,
cars can be assembled for MUCH less in either Detroit, Flint, or
Alabama.

Then the Canadian Tier 1/Tier 2 manufacturers made big investments (we
had Wasino turning machines in 24 Canadian plants when I was marketing
manager there; that was more than we had in US top-tier suppliers) and
they held on to that market for years. As the Canadian dollar rose
against the US dollar, the writing was on the wall.

And what of the $0.72 dollar???

Canada's dependency on the US automotive suppliers was a mistake, as
was California's dependency on military aerospace business.
Canada's automotive industry supplied more parts than vehicles for
many years.

The auto pact ensured that close to the same number of vehicles a
manufacturer sold in Canada were made here. We might make just Dodge
Mini-vans and rear wheel drive full size Crown Vics and Camaros and
GM pickups, but we exported as many of them as we imported all the
other American cars built in the states. That equality went right out
the window with "free trade"

Now we've lost the Camaro, and nothing has taken the place of the CV .

Lear seating has now closed their plant here in Kitchener. Budd Frame
/ Thiessen Krupp closed the frame plant almost 20 years ago. Numerous
Canadian companies were bought by the Americans, given tax incentives
to keep them here, and then closed down and moved south.

Even the steel industry. American Steel bought out Stelco, got
millions of government help, and then shut the doors, in defiance of
their agreement to maintain jobs in Canada..

There cannot be an equal partnership between an elephant and a mouse -
no matter how good the mouse is.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:03:32 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:11:32 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:47:11 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:04:41 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 06:11:45 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton
wrote:

I was once at an auction for a machine shop that closed in NC. I had researched the price for a Lincoln tig welder that was there, and looked to be in good condition. Myself and two other guys bid for it, and it kept going up. The guy that got it paid more than the new list price. When I left he was standing next to it, wiping the dust off the top with an ear to ear smile. I thought,"What a wailing dumbass". Was my last auction, as I'd seen similar things happen to many times. Just my .02 on auctions.

Ayup. NC doesnt have a large surplus of machine tools as do other
states and they will go for prime amounts. Iggy will verify that in
once industrial areas like Chicago and surrounds..stuff will go much
much cheaper.

A perfect example of this is the difference in price between single
phase and 3phase versions of welders. Hobby guys keep the market
going on single phase machinery

Gunner

Yeah, if I remember right, it was single phase 220 welder. But you'd think a guy would check the new price on something before heading to an auction. I still hold that he was about half a bubble out of plumb.
Had to be 2 od 'em to get the price up.

Or one guy running the other up and bailing out before the last bid.
Shills do it all the time..so do "friends".
It only works if the last bidder is stupid enough to be the last
bidder. Otherwise the idiot bidding him up gets stuck with something
he has no need for at a stupid price.

Hence the term "auction fever"..when your brains leak down your leg
and you bid stupid amounts of money for Stuff. The auctioneer can
always take it to the next auction if his shill ****s up.

Not if he gets caught!!! Not if it is an on-premises auction. That
might work if he's working in an "auction center" where nothing HAS to
leave the premises - but up here a fraud over $5000 charge isn't
something you want to defend yourself or your shill from.

And a reputation as a crook isn't something an auctioneer wants to
have to counter.

There were a few around here who played that game a couple decades
ago. They found out the little extra commission they earned didn't
last long once the word got out and nobody attended their auctions -
and then nobody hired them to auction anything.

Word gets around REAL quick - particularly in small and rural
communities.

Ah...Ive played that game for customers for years. Gets em more money
for their goods. One simply has to read the customers and get a feel
for the dumb ones. Which is why they usually..usually sell the small
stuff first.,.or some of the small stuff first...shrug.

Most of the time the customers are thinking rational
humans..occasionally you will spot a nitwit..

Thats why the sellers pay commisions...shrug again.

Gunner Asch wrote:

Hence the term "auction fever"..when your brains leak down your leg
and you bid stupid amounts of money for Stuff. The auctioneer can
always take it to the next auction if his shill ****s up.

Ah...Ive played that game for customers for years. Gets em more money
for their goods. One simply has to read the customers and get a feel
for the dumb ones. Which is why they usually..usually sell the small
stuff first.,.or some of the small stuff first...shrug.

Most of the time the customers are thinking rational
humans..occasionally you will spot a nitwit..

Thats why the sellers pay commisions...shrug again.


I was at the auction of a failed electronics surplus store, years
ago. I saw a Gaylord full of small IBM monitors for bank terminals. The
opening bid was $1, so I bid on it. then someone raised it to $2. Then I
realized it wasn't just the one Gaylord, it was an entire tractor
trailer load of old bank equipment. The other guy won it for $32, and
then he had to make over a dozen trips to pick it all up. ;-)

I found out later that it was all defective, and from a repair
company that had went bankrupt. The auctioneer had slipped it into the
auction for the surplus store. I did get four nice workbenches for $12,
and some industrial shelving for $5.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Gunner Asch wrote:

Hence the term "auction fever"..when your brains leak down your leg
and you bid stupid amounts of money for Stuff. The auctioneer can
always take it to the next auction if his shill ****s up.

Ah...Ive played that game for customers for years. Gets em more money
for their goods. One simply has to read the customers and get a feel
for the dumb ones. Which is why they usually..usually sell the small
stuff first.,.or some of the small stuff first...shrug.

Most of the time the customers are thinking rational
humans..occasionally you will spot a nitwit..

Thats why the sellers pay commisions...shrug again.


I was at the auction of a failed electronics surplus store, years
ago. I saw a Gaylord full of small IBM monitors for bank terminals. The
opening bid was $1, so I bid on it. then someone raised it to $2. Then I
realized it wasn't just the one Gaylord, it was an entire tractor
trailer load of old bank equipment. The other guy won it for $32, and
then he had to make over a dozen trips to pick it all up. ;-)

I found out later that it was all defective, and from a repair
company that had went bankrupt. The auctioneer had slipped it into the
auction for the surplus store. I did get four nice workbenches for $12,
and some industrial shelving for $5.

I attended an auction back in the 1980's where the auctioneer sold a trailer
full of oil filled capacitors (PCB) to an uneducated buyer. As I understand
it
that was a popular way of disposing of toxic waste back then.

Best Regards
Tom.

azotic wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Gunner Asch wrote:

Hence the term "auction fever"..when your brains leak down your leg
and you bid stupid amounts of money for Stuff. The auctioneer can
always take it to the next auction if his shill ****s up.

Ah...Ive played that game for customers for years. Gets em more money
for their goods. One simply has to read the customers and get a feel
for the dumb ones. Which is why they usually..usually sell the small
stuff first.,.or some of the small stuff first...shrug.

Most of the time the customers are thinking rational
humans..occasionally you will spot a nitwit..

Thats why the sellers pay commisions...shrug again.


I was at the auction of a failed electronics surplus store, years
ago. I saw a Gaylord full of small IBM monitors for bank terminals. The
opening bid was $1, so I bid on it. then someone raised it to $2. Then I
realized it wasn't just the one Gaylord, it was an entire tractor
trailer load of old bank equipment. The other guy won it for $32, and
then he had to make over a dozen trips to pick it all up. ;-)

I found out later that it was all defective, and from a repair
company that had went bankrupt. The auctioneer had slipped it into the
auction for the surplus store. I did get four nice workbenches for $12,
and some industrial shelving for $5.

I attended an auction back in the 1980's where the auctioneer sold a trailer
full of oil filled capacitors (PCB) to an uneducated buyer. As I understand
it that was a popular way of disposing of toxic waste back then.


Or selling them to audiofools in Japan, if they had W-E markings.

Ed Huntress writes:

What Gunner is seeing is mostly the result of the segment of industry
he deals with -- the absolute bottom feeders. Mismanaged,
under-capitalized, dragging their feet technologically, they are
declining and the business they did (which is still there) is being
picked up by better, smarter companies.

The big picture seems to show that what Gunner is seeing is a good
indicator for the big picture. The "better, smarter companies" may be
doing good for their shareholders but they're putting increasing
numbers of people on the street or, a la Gunner, on the couch/dole.

('Ware linebreak)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...d-and-its-neve
r-going-back-good-old-days

Some nice charts there. The companies, the shareholders, the
executives are doing fine. The blue-collar working folks (or even the
uni grad programmers and techies) are never going to have good again
unless the whole system is changed.

You can't start a mold shop today with a Bridgeport and a Logan lathe
in a garage. Technology has moved on. And if you try to run a business
today the way you ran it 20 years ago, you're toast.

Or you're prepared to get along without a lot of conveniences,
consumer crap and conventional living standards in order to be
stubbornly independent.

Then Gunner gets to help move the machines out and Iggy buys them for
scrap. Welcome to the 21st century -- which you'll probably catch up
with in a decade or two.

The 21st c. promises to be increasingly the pits (if not an outright
****storm) for a very large number of people able to work and willing
to do so in exchange for a living wage and enough stability that they
don't have to devote large amounts of effort to looking for work,
managing multiple part-time jobs, coping with the crap of markets,
commerce, finance, regulation etc. that would otherwise be the task of
their employers.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On 30 Dec 2015 03:00:27 -0400, Mike Spencer
wrote:


Ed Huntress writes:

What Gunner is seeing is mostly the result of the segment of industry
he deals with -- the absolute bottom feeders. Mismanaged,
under-capitalized, dragging their feet technologically, they are
declining and the business they did (which is still there) is being
picked up by better, smarter companies.

The big picture seems to show that what Gunner is seeing is a good
indicator for the big picture. The "better, smarter companies" may be
doing good for their shareholders but they're putting increasing
numbers of people on the street or, a la Gunner, on the couch/dole.

Yet, there are an estimated 600,000 unfilled jobs in manufacturing
right NOW, and Deloitte is projecting a shortage of 2 million over the
next decade.


('Ware linebreak)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...d-and-its-neve
r-going-back-good-old-days

Some nice charts there. The companies, the shareholders, the
executives are doing fine. The blue-collar working folks (or even the
uni grad programmers and techies) are never going to have good again
unless the whole system is changed.

As the author you're referring to says, history doesn't have a reverse
gear.


You can't start a mold shop today with a Bridgeport and a Logan lathe
in a garage. Technology has moved on. And if you try to run a business
today the way you ran it 20 years ago, you're toast.

Or you're prepared to get along without a lot of conveniences,
consumer crap and conventional living standards in order to be
stubbornly independent.

No. That "lunchbox" mold business is long gone. We make the best molds
in the world in the US, but the bottom-end, startup-business end is
gone.


Then Gunner gets to help move the machines out and Iggy buys them for
scrap. Welcome to the 21st century -- which you'll probably catch up
with in a decade or two.

The 21st c. promises to be increasingly the pits (if not an outright
****storm) for a very large number of people able to work and willing
to do so in exchange for a living wage and enough stability that they
don't have to devote large amounts of effort to looking for work,
managing multiple part-time jobs, coping with the crap of markets,
commerce, finance, regulation etc. that would otherwise be the task of
their employers.

Without the education and the skills, they're toast.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2015-12-30, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Hence the term "auction fever"..when your brains leak down your leg
and you bid stupid amounts of money for Stuff. The auctioneer can
always take it to the next auction if his shill ****s up.

Ah...Ive played that game for customers for years. Gets em more money
for their goods. One simply has to read the customers and get a feel
for the dumb ones. Which is why they usually..usually sell the small
stuff first.,.or some of the small stuff first...shrug.

Most of the time the customers are thinking rational
humans..occasionally you will spot a nitwit..

Thats why the sellers pay commisions...shrug again.


I was at the auction of a failed electronics surplus store, years
ago. I saw a Gaylord full of small IBM monitors for bank terminals. The
opening bid was $1, so I bid on it. then someone raised it to $2. Then I
realized it wasn't just the one Gaylord, it was an entire tractor
trailer load of old bank equipment. The other guy won it for $32, and
then he had to make over a dozen trips to pick it all up. ;-)

I found out later that it was all defective, and from a repair
company that had went bankrupt. The auctioneer had slipped it into the
auction for the surplus store. I did get four nice workbenches for $12,
and some industrial shelving for $5.

My best guess is that it was still a good deal at $32

i

On 2015-12-30, azotic wrote:
I attended an auction back in the 1980's where the auctioneer sold a
trailer full of oil filled capacitors (PCB) to an uneducated
buyer. As I understand it that was a popular way of disposing of
toxic waste back then.

I wonder what is the preferred method now...

i