I purchased this "boom lift" for scrap for $500:

http://goo.gl/kbvFHE

It is a huge 20,000 lbs capacity boom lift. I do not need it and, I
suspect, neither does anyone else, this is why it was surplused by a
local public agency.

The way this works is that the boom goes up and down with help from
the lift cylinder, and extends and retracts with help of another
cylinder inside the boom.

However, I have an idea: Take off the hydraulically powered boom from
the front, and make it into a forklift attachment and mount on my
30,000 lbs forklift.

Then, I suppose, I could use it to reach higher and handle awkward
loads, and so on. This lift has a capacity of 10,000 lbs extended and
170 inches lift. Adding 120 or so inches lift od the forklift, this
can give you a 290 inches combined lift.

I can sort of visualize what needs to be welded to it to make it
attachable and detachable.

However, what I do not know is how easy it is to add hydraulic
functionality to a forklift with only a two lever spool valve. Can I
add another spool valve to handle these two functions (lift and
extend)? Would that be "in series" with the original spool valve?

Thanks

i

Ignoramus8530 wrote:
I purchased this "boom lift" for scrap for $500:

http://goo.gl/kbvFHE

It is a huge 20,000 lbs capacity boom lift. I do not need it and, I
suspect, neither does anyone else, this is why it was surplused by a
local public agency.

The way this works is that the boom goes up and down with help from
the lift cylinder, and extends and retracts with help of another
cylinder inside the boom.

However, I have an idea: Take off the hydraulically powered boom from
the front, and make it into a forklift attachment and mount on my
30,000 lbs forklift.

Then, I suppose, I could use it to reach higher and handle awkward
loads, and so on. This lift has a capacity of 10,000 lbs extended and
170 inches lift. Adding 120 or so inches lift od the forklift, this
can give you a 290 inches combined lift.

I can sort of visualize what needs to be welded to it to make it
attachable and detachable.

However, what I do not know is how easy it is to add hydraulic
functionality to a forklift with only a two lever spool valve. Can I
add another spool valve to handle these two functions (lift and
extend)? Would that be "in series" with the original spool valve?

Thanks

i

You will lose a LOT of the lifting capacity. Most fork lifts are rated
at a set distance from the boom. As you extend out farther the leverage
starts working against you.

But- adding spools is easy. You need to determine if it's an open or
closed center valve system.
Then you buy the correct type of valves and connect the inlet ports to
the pressure feed. The outputs go to the new quick disconnect fittings
you will need to add.

--
Steve W.

But- adding spools is easy. You need to determine if it's an open or
closed center valve system.
Then you buy the correct type of valves and connect the inlet ports to
the pressure feed. The outputs go to the new quick disconnect fittings
you will need to add.

its easy if you got open center (hydraulic pump always runs) not so
much if closed center. You have an older truck? Pretty sure it would
be open center. If so "T" off your hydraulic line on both pressure
side and drain, add in your valves. FWIW, the Farm and Fleet store
stock this stuff cheap. Maybe they don't have those inside the windy
city.

Ya, you'll loose some lift capacity, but you're starting from 30K

should work well for your needs.

Karl

On 2014-11-08, Steve W. wrote:
You will lose a LOT of the lifting capacity. Most fork lifts are rated
at a set distance from the boom. As you extend out farther the leverage
starts working against you.

Right. I am quite aware of that. Usually, when moving things very
close the ground, overloading forklifts is not very dangerous, it just
tips a little and that's it. When things are high in the air, losing
balance is very dangerous.

At 24 center from face of forks, my 30,000 forklift can lift 30,000,
and at 40", only 20,000, etc. Even less with the boom adding to the
lifting radius. But in any case I could deal with some substantially
heavy stuff like 8,000 lbs items.

But- adding spools is easy. You need to determine if it's an open or
closed center valve system. Then you buy the correct type of valves
and connect the inlet ports to the pressure feed. The outputs go to
the new quick disconnect fittings you will need to add.

OK, thanks, this is good news.

i

On 2014-11-08, Karl Townsend wrote:

But- adding spools is easy. You need to determine if it's an open or
closed center valve system.
Then you buy the correct type of valves and connect the inlet ports to
the pressure feed. The outputs go to the new quick disconnect fittings
you will need to add.

its easy if you got open center (hydraulic pump always runs) not so
much if closed center. You have an older truck?

This forklift is from something like 1960's. It is in a very good
shape actually., but yes, it is old. (Towmotor)

Pretty sure it would be open center. If so "T" off your hydraulic
line on both pressure side and drain, add in your valves. FWIW, the
Farm and Fleet store stock this stuff cheap. Maybe they don't have
those inside the windy city.

On other words, you are saying, add the second spool valve in
parallel, right?

Ya, you'll loose some lift capacity, but you're starting from 30K
should work well for your needs.

Exactly, if I can handle 10k with the boom extended, I will be very
happy. I will, obviously, test that and make up a load chart.

I am extremely aware that losing balance with things high up in the
air, is a very bad idea.

i

"Ignoramus8530" wrote in message
...
I purchased this "boom lift" for scrap for $500:

http://goo.gl/kbvFHE

It is a huge 20,000 lbs capacity boom lift. I do not need it and, I
suspect, neither does anyone else, this is why it was surplused by a
local public agency.

The way this works is that the boom goes up and down with help from
the lift cylinder, and extends and retracts with help of another
cylinder inside the boom.

However, I have an idea: Take off the hydraulically powered boom
from
the front, and make it into a forklift attachment and mount on my
30,000 lbs forklift.

Then, I suppose, I could use it to reach higher and handle awkward
loads, and so on. This lift has a capacity of 10,000 lbs extended
and
170 inches lift. Adding 120 or so inches lift od the forklift, this
can give you a 290 inches combined lift.

I can sort of visualize what needs to be welded to it to make it
attachable and detachable.

However, what I do not know is how easy it is to add hydraulic
functionality to a forklift with only a two lever spool valve. Can I
add another spool valve to handle these two functions (lift and
extend)? Would that be "in series" with the original spool valve?

Thanks

i

http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cg...mall&th=343934

The third option is closed center with a positive displacement pump
and a pressure relief valve, as I did on my tractor which was designed
around whatever cheap surplus hydraulic components I could scrounge
and repair. Though it's inefficient, the parts are much cheaper and
simpler and the power dissipated into the oil warmed it, which helped
in New England winter.

Open center valves can be added in series, closed center in parallel.

-jsw

On other words, you are saying, add the second spool valve in
parallel, right?
Yep,

BTW, maybe i have my terminology wrong. i see I'm backward from what
Jim says. With a tow motor I'm sure you just have the old system with
pump always running and dump to relief valve when a spool valve sin't
being used. This system is easy to add spool valves.

Karl

On 2014-11-08, Karl Townsend wrote:

On other words, you are saying, add the second spool valve in
parallel, right?
Yep,

BTW, maybe i have my terminology wrong. i see I'm backward from what
Jim says. With a tow motor I'm sure you just have the old system with
pump always running and dump to relief valve when a spool valve sin't
being used. This system is easy to add spool valves.

Karl, this is what I also think, you got it exactly wrong in your
first post. If I have open center, I add another apool valve in
series. Very easy to do.

i

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 06:41:24 -0600, Ignoramus25323
wrote:

On 2014-11-08, Karl Townsend wrote:

But- adding spools is easy. You need to determine if it's an open or
closed center valve system.
Then you buy the correct type of valves and connect the inlet ports to
the pressure feed. The outputs go to the new quick disconnect fittings
you will need to add.

its easy if you got open center (hydraulic pump always runs) not so
much if closed center. You have an older truck?

This forklift is from something like 1960's. It is in a very good
shape actually., but yes, it is old. (Towmotor)

Pretty sure it would be open center. If so "T" off your hydraulic
line on both pressure side and drain, add in your valves. FWIW, the
Farm and Fleet store stock this stuff cheap. Maybe they don't have
those inside the windy city.

On other words, you are saying, add the second spool valve in
parallel, right?

Yes, parallel. (Current throne room material is a '67 Sperry Rand
Vickers Mobile Hydraulics Manual)


Ya, you'll loose some lift capacity, but you're starting from 30K
should work well for your needs.

Exactly, if I can handle 10k with the boom extended, I will be very
happy. I will, obviously, test that and make up a load chart.

I'm curious to see your final build for a scrapper forklift crane.


I am extremely aware that losing balance with things high up in the
air, is a very bad idea.

Yeah, life-altering.

--
The more you know, the less you need.
-- Aboriginal Saying

"Ignoramus25323" wrote in
message ...
On 2014-11-08, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On other words, you are saying, add the second spool valve in
parallel, right?
Yep,

BTW, maybe i have my terminology wrong. i see I'm backward from
what
Jim says. With a tow motor I'm sure you just have the old system
with
pump always running and dump to relief valve when a spool valve
sin't
being used. This system is easy to add spool valves.

Karl, this is what I also think, you got it exactly wrong in your
first post. If I have open center, I add another apool valve in
series. Very easy to do.

i

The easy way to tell is to install a pressure gauge at the valve
inlet. I added them to my log splitter, tractor and porta-power clone.
The one on the log splitter is of necessity poorly positioned out of
my view of the wood, on the pump outlet, but it would be easily broken
if located closer to the action. I can watch the other two without
taking my eyes too far off the job.

The gauges show how close I am to the safe limit and give an early
warning when the system needs repair.

Perhaps my experience as a lab tech makes me comfortable monitoring
dials and gauges. The other day I lagged together a retaining wall on
sawhorses and then lowered it into position with my shop crane. I hung
it from a scale to weigh it, then substituted a chain to position it,
and found it was better to put the scale back and support half its
weight while nudging it into final position. Without the scale I
couldn't tell from the pump end of the crane whether it would be too
heavy to tap into line with my toe or too light to stay in place.
http://www.amazon.com/Big-Game-Scale...big+game+scale

-jsw

On 2014-11-08, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 06:41:24 -0600, Ignoramus25323
wrote:

On 2014-11-08, Karl Townsend wrote:

But- adding spools is easy. You need to determine if it's an open or
closed center valve system.
Then you buy the correct type of valves and connect the inlet ports to
the pressure feed. The outputs go to the new quick disconnect fittings
you will need to add.

its easy if you got open center (hydraulic pump always runs) not so
much if closed center. You have an older truck?

This forklift is from something like 1960's. It is in a very good
shape actually., but yes, it is old. (Towmotor)

Pretty sure it would be open center. If so "T" off your hydraulic
line on both pressure side and drain, add in your valves. FWIW, the
Farm and Fleet store stock this stuff cheap. Maybe they don't have
those inside the windy city.

On other words, you are saying, add the second spool valve in
parallel, right?

Yes, parallel. (Current throne room material is a '67 Sperry Rand
Vickers Mobile Hydraulics Manual)


Ya, you'll loose some lift capacity, but you're starting from 30K
should work well for your needs.

Exactly, if I can handle 10k with the boom extended, I will be very
happy. I will, obviously, test that and make up a load chart.

I'm curious to see your final build for a scrapper forklift crane.

Yes, i will post some pictures if/when I get it done.

i


I am extremely aware that losing balance with things high up in the
air, is a very bad idea.

Yeah, life-altering.

On Friday, November 7, 2014 10:46:04 PM UTC-5, Ignoramus8530 wrote:

However, I have an idea: Take off the hydraulically powered boom from
the front, and make it into a forklift attachment and mount on my
30,000 lbs forklift.


Thanks

i

I am not the right person as I was never involved in any fork lift mods, but as
I remember doing something as simple as changing forklift tines required the manufacturers approval. So you might want to figure where you are going to hide this if you get inspected by the state.

It may not be any problem for you. We were handling explosives and that might be the reason for the big deal on safety.

Dan

Ignoramus8530 fired this volley in
:

Can I
add another spool valve to handle these two functions (lift and
extend)? Would that be "in series" with the original spool valve?


Ig, unless the valves were actually custom-built by/for the forklift
company, they are probably "power beyond" valves. That, because some of
their lifts probably did come with accessories that needed extra valves
beyond the lift control. (BTW, you didn't say anything about the
traction drive... does it _get_ power from the lift valves or supply
power to them, or is traction on a different circuit with separate
traction pump?)

Lloyd

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Yes, parallel. (Current throne room material is a '67 Sperry Rand
Vickers Mobile Hydraulics Manual)

Fooey! The two spools already on there aren't in parallel! With open-
center spools, the 'bypass' (drain, if you will) of one valve feeds the
next valve's pressure input.

If you put open-center valves in parallel, nothing moves unless ALL the
valves are actuated, and then they all move.

The valves are "physically in parallel", because they're constructed to
dump flow to the next valve, and/or accept flow from the prior one.

But schematically, they're in series.


Lloyd

On 2014-11-08, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Yes, parallel. (Current throne room material is a '67 Sperry Rand
Vickers Mobile Hydraulics Manual)

Fooey! The two spools already on there aren't in parallel! With open-
center spools, the 'bypass' (drain, if you will) of one valve feeds the
next valve's pressure input.

If you put open-center valves in parallel, nothing moves unless ALL the
valves are actuated, and then they all move.

The valves are "physically in parallel", because they're constructed to
dump flow to the next valve, and/or accept flow from the prior one.

But schematically, they're in series.

Right, exactly.

i

On 2014-11-08, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus8530 fired this volley in
:

Can I
add another spool valve to handle these two functions (lift and
extend)? Would that be "in series" with the original spool valve?


Ig, unless the valves were actually custom-built by/for the forklift
company, they are probably "power beyond" valves. That, because some of
their lifts probably did come with accessories that needed extra valves
beyond the lift control. (BTW, you didn't say anything about the
traction drive... does it _get_ power from the lift valves or supply
power to them, or is traction on a different circuit with separate
traction pump?)

The drive is a regular drive with automatic transmission.

i

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:16:23 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Yes, parallel. (Current throne room material is a '67 Sperry Rand
Vickers Mobile Hydraulics Manual)

Fooey! The two spools already on there aren't in parallel! With open-
center spools, the 'bypass' (drain, if you will) of one valve feeds the
next valve's pressure input.

Sosueme. I haven't reached the open/closed-center valves chapter yet.


If you put open-center valves in parallel, nothing moves unless ALL the
valves are actuated, and then they all move.

I thought open center valves all had full pressure to them at all
times and they only use it when the spool is moved.


The valves are "physically in parallel", because they're constructed to
dump flow to the next valve, and/or accept flow from the prior one.

But schematically, they're in series.

How can you move two things at once (loader beam up, rotate bucket up,
or crane up, crane right) if they're in series? Or is it set up so he
can only work one function at a time? Still, they'd seem to have to
be in parallel for that, too.

My head has a problem grokking that at this time. I'm sure I'll get
it by the time I read the rest of the manual, though. I've played
with hydraulics for decades (including Lincoln ps/pb with
accumulators) but not quite in this context. That's why I bought the
book.

--
That's the thing about needs. Sometimes, when you get them met,
you don't need them anymore. -- Michael Patrick King

Ignoramus25323 fired this volley in
:

The drive is a regular drive with automatic transmission.

That didn't tell me much. There are 'automatic' hydraulically driven
traction drives, there are directly engine-driven trannies...

Did you mean the traction system is directly engine driven? (and yes,
automatic transmissions have hydraulics in them, too, but the pump is
inside the case, and part of the assembly).

Lloyd

On 2014-11-09, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus25323 fired this volley in
:

The drive is a regular drive with automatic transmission.

That didn't tell me much. There are 'automatic' hydraulically driven
traction drives, there are directly engine-driven trannies...

Did you mean the traction system is directly engine driven? (and yes,
automatic transmissions have hydraulics in them, too, but the pump is
inside the case, and part of the assembly).

It is engine driven, like a car. The transmission has its own
hydraulic pump.

That pump on the transmission is also used for steering. Power
Steering was screwed up on this forklift and we threw it out: the
steering gearbox, the arms etc, are gone. We replaced it with an
Orbitrol all-hydraulic power steering. This was really great. It is
no longer hydraulically assisted mechanical steering, it is
all-hudraulic.

i