Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.

This beavertail trailer, while also essentialy intermittent, takes a
lot more work per unit of operation (pull beavertail lock, pull
extension lock, raise tail, extend extension, lower tail). That would
take this little motor a long time and it may overheat and burn out.

Is my concern justified?

I have a few options for powering this trailer. I am basing this on my
assumption that all cylinders are double acting, so not a lot of fluid
is needed.

The options a

1) Install a truck wet kit. cost: $2,000.

2) Use a 12v hydraulic pump that I already have. Cost: Small $$ for
wiring.

3) Use a 115v, self contained power unit that I purchased yesterday
along with a hydraulic H-press for $195. I would take along a Honda
generator that we have to run this pump. Cost: $195, minus whatever $$$
I can get for the press without the hydraulic pump,and the four way
manual valve.

This is a 1.5 HP unit with a continuous duty Marathon motor.

The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.

  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,746
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers


Ignoramus25949 wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.

This beavertail trailer, while also essentialy intermittent, takes a
lot more work per unit of operation (pull beavertail lock, pull
extension lock, raise tail, extend extension, lower tail). That would
take this little motor a long time and it may overheat and burn out.

Is my concern justified?

I have a few options for powering this trailer. I am basing this on my
assumption that all cylinders are double acting, so not a lot of fluid
is needed.

The options a

1) Install a truck wet kit. cost: $2,000.

2) Use a 12v hydraulic pump that I already have. Cost: Small $$ for
wiring.

3) Use a 115v, self contained power unit that I purchased yesterday
along with a hydraulic H-press for $195. I would take along a Honda
generator that we have to run this pump. Cost: $195, minus whatever $$$
I can get for the press without the hydraulic pump,and the four way
manual valve.

This is a 1.5 HP unit with a continuous duty Marathon motor.

The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.


The wet line kit for the tractor is the proper way to do it of course
and $2k isn't much in relation to the other costs related to the semi
and trailer.

I have seen a Landoll hydraulic everything trailer that was powered by
an onboard hydraulic unit run by a small diesel engine like a 3 cyl
Kubota.

I would consider a small gas powered setup, basically just an 8hp gas
engine coupled to a gear pump and a tank just like a log splitter setup.
You wouldn't have any duty cycle issues, the trailer could be operated
without the tractor if needed and it should cost perhaps $750 to put
together.
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

On 2012-04-30, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus25949 wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.

This beavertail trailer, while also essentialy intermittent, takes a
lot more work per unit of operation (pull beavertail lock, pull
extension lock, raise tail, extend extension, lower tail). That would
take this little motor a long time and it may overheat and burn out.

Is my concern justified?

I have a few options for powering this trailer. I am basing this on my
assumption that all cylinders are double acting, so not a lot of fluid
is needed.

The options a

1) Install a truck wet kit. cost: $2,000.

2) Use a 12v hydraulic pump that I already have. Cost: Small $$ for
wiring.

3) Use a 115v, self contained power unit that I purchased yesterday
along with a hydraulic H-press for $195. I would take along a Honda
generator that we have to run this pump. Cost: $195, minus whatever $$$
I can get for the press without the hydraulic pump,and the four way
manual valve.

This is a 1.5 HP unit with a continuous duty Marathon motor.

The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.


The wet line kit for the tractor is the proper way to do it of course
and $2k isn't much in relation to the other costs related to the semi
and trailer.


The semi tractor cost me $2,300. I am reluctant to double its cost
with a wet kit.

I have seen a Landoll hydraulic everything trailer that was powered by
an onboard hydraulic unit run by a small diesel engine like a 3 cyl
Kubota.


Yep, so have I.

I would consider a small gas powered setup, basically just an 8hp gas
engine coupled to a gear pump and a tank just like a log splitter setup.
You wouldn't have any duty cycle issues, the trailer could be operated
without the tractor if needed and it should cost perhaps $750 to put
together.


My choice number 3 is almost what you are describing, except that
there is a generator and an electric motor in the middle. Like I said,
I already have a portable Honda generator, and since yesterday, have
this single phase 1.5 HP hydraulic power unit.

i
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:07:30 -0500, Ignoramus25949
wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.


Do the cylinders on your trailer use more than a gallon? You will
need a valve, extra hoses, heavy duty battery cable to the trailer,
and likely a larger reservoir, so this isn't as cheap as it seems.


This beavertail trailer, while also essentialy intermittent, takes a
lot more work per unit of operation (pull beavertail lock, pull
extension lock, raise tail, extend extension, lower tail). That would
take this little motor a long time and it may overheat and burn out.

Is my concern justified?

I have a few options for powering this trailer. I am basing this on my
assumption that all cylinders are double acting, so not a lot of fluid
is needed.


Oh, OK. Scratch the reservoir.


The options a

1) Install a truck wet kit. cost: $2,000.

2) Use a 12v hydraulic pump that I already have. Cost: Small $$ for
wiring.

3) Use a 115v, self contained power unit that I purchased yesterday
along with a hydraulic H-press for $195. I would take along a Honda
generator that we have to run this pump. Cost: $195, minus whatever $$$
I can get for the press without the hydraulic pump,and the four way
manual valve.

This is a 1.5 HP unit with a continuous duty Marathon motor.

The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.


I like #3 a lot, but what about a #4?

4) Mount a small gas engine and hyd pump with reservoir, creating a
local power unit usable anywhere? Cheaper than #3?

HF for the littlest Predator engine ($119), Burden Surplus for the
pump and valving ($250, 2spl DA), and maybe a tank, if you don't weld
up your own.
http://tinyurl.com/7pxq2y9 engine
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=9-8239-L 15.5gpm pump (7x
faster than the 12v model)


--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

On 2012-04-30, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:07:30 -0500, Ignoramus25949
wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.


Do the cylinders on your trailer use more than a gallon? You will
need a valve, extra hoses, heavy duty battery cable to the trailer,
and likely a larger reservoir, so this isn't as cheap as it seems.


True. Keep in mind though, that most cylinders there are double ended,
and those do not need a big reservoir.


This beavertail trailer, while also essentialy intermittent, takes a
lot more work per unit of operation (pull beavertail lock, pull
extension lock, raise tail, extend extension, lower tail). That would
take this little motor a long time and it may overheat and burn out.

Is my concern justified?

I have a few options for powering this trailer. I am basing this on my
assumption that all cylinders are double acting, so not a lot of fluid
is needed.


Oh, OK. Scratch the reservoir.


The options a

1) Install a truck wet kit. cost: $2,000.

2) Use a 12v hydraulic pump that I already have. Cost: Small $$ for
wiring.

3) Use a 115v, self contained power unit that I purchased yesterday
along with a hydraulic H-press for $195. I would take along a Honda
generator that we have to run this pump. Cost: $195, minus whatever $$$
I can get for the press without the hydraulic pump,and the four way
manual valve.

This is a 1.5 HP unit with a continuous duty Marathon motor.

The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.


I like #3 a lot, but what about a #4?

4) Mount a small gas engine and hyd pump with reservoir, creating a
local power unit usable anywhere? Cheaper than #3?

HF for the littlest Predator engine ($119), Burden Surplus for the
pump and valving ($250, 2spl DA), and maybe a tank, if you don't weld
up your own.
http://tinyurl.com/7pxq2y9 engine
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=9-8239-L 15.5gpm pump (7x
faster than the 12v model)



Plus filters, belts, pulleys, mountings etc

In my experience, such projects end up very expensive and time
consuming. Plus I do not trust HF engines, but I do trust Honda.

And all those surplus things at these surplus centers have some fatal
flaws that make them somehow unusable for normal applications. (which
is why they ended up at those surplus centers, cannot be sold through
normal channels)

I am not trying to be difficult, just stating my past experience. Say,
this hydraulic pump's description says "pump to operate hydraulic
wheel motors on zero turn radius equipment applications including
turf, light construction and other mobile equipment". What exactly it
means, I am not sure, but it makes me slightly suspicious of whether
this is a general purpose pump.

i


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:20:11 -0500, Ignoramus25949
wrote:

On 2012-04-30, Larry Jaques wrote:
I like #3 a lot, but what about a #4?

4) Mount a small gas engine and hyd pump with reservoir, creating a
local power unit usable anywhere? Cheaper than #3?

HF for the littlest Predator engine ($119), Burden Surplus for the
pump and valving ($250, 2spl DA), and maybe a tank, if you don't weld
up your own.
http://tinyurl.com/7pxq2y9 engine
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=9-8239-L 15.5gpm pump (7x
faster than the 12v model)



Plus filters, belts, pulleys, mountings etc


Direct mount the pump to the engine, no belts or pulleys needed.


In my experience, such projects end up very expensive and time
consuming. Plus I do not trust HF engines, but I do trust Honda.


Grok that. I saw that you already have the genset and power head,
so make sure to document it. I'd like to see it when you're done.


And all those surplus things at these surplus centers have some fatal
flaws that make them somehow unusable for normal applications. (which
is why they ended up at those surplus centers, cannot be sold through
normal channels)


I thought they were just NOS overages and misbuys by companies.


I am not trying to be difficult, just stating my past experience. Say,
this hydraulic pump's description says "pump to operate hydraulic
wheel motors on zero turn radius equipment applications including
turf, light construction and other mobile equipment". What exactly it
means, I am not sure, but it makes me slightly suspicious of whether
this is a general purpose pump.


I haven't bought much from Burden, but everything I have has worked.
No hyd, though.


--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,705
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

Ignoramus25949 wrote:
On 2012-04-30, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:07:30 -0500, Ignoramus25949
wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.

Do the cylinders on your trailer use more than a gallon? You will
need a valve, extra hoses, heavy duty battery cable to the trailer,
and likely a larger reservoir, so this isn't as cheap as it seems.


True. Keep in mind though, that most cylinders there are double ended,
and those do not need a big reservoir.

This beavertail trailer, while also essentialy intermittent, takes a
lot more work per unit of operation (pull beavertail lock, pull
extension lock, raise tail, extend extension, lower tail). That would
take this little motor a long time and it may overheat and burn out.

Is my concern justified?

I have a few options for powering this trailer. I am basing this on my
assumption that all cylinders are double acting, so not a lot of fluid
is needed.

Oh, OK. Scratch the reservoir.


The options a

1) Install a truck wet kit. cost: $2,000.

2) Use a 12v hydraulic pump that I already have. Cost: Small $$ for
wiring.

3) Use a 115v, self contained power unit that I purchased yesterday
along with a hydraulic H-press for $195. I would take along a Honda
generator that we have to run this pump. Cost: $195, minus whatever $$$
I can get for the press without the hydraulic pump,and the four way
manual valve.

This is a 1.5 HP unit with a continuous duty Marathon motor.

The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.

I like #3 a lot, but what about a #4?

4) Mount a small gas engine and hyd pump with reservoir, creating a
local power unit usable anywhere? Cheaper than #3?

HF for the littlest Predator engine ($119), Burden Surplus for the
pump and valving ($250, 2spl DA), and maybe a tank, if you don't weld
up your own.
http://tinyurl.com/7pxq2y9 engine
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=9-8239-L 15.5gpm pump (7x
faster than the 12v model)



Plus filters, belts, pulleys, mountings etc

In my experience, such projects end up very expensive and time
consuming. Plus I do not trust HF engines, but I do trust Honda.

And all those surplus things at these surplus centers have some fatal
flaws that make them somehow unusable for normal applications. (which
is why they ended up at those surplus centers, cannot be sold through
normal channels)


Not TRUE. The surplus outfits buy the left-overs and oddball items that
the companies just want to clear out of inventory.
Plus items that were bought in large quantity then were not used.


I am not trying to be difficult, just stating my past experience. Say,
this hydraulic pump's description says "pump to operate hydraulic
wheel motors on zero turn radius equipment applications including
turf, light construction and other mobile equipment". What exactly it
means, I am not sure, but it makes me slightly suspicious of whether
this is a general purpose pump.

i


Well for a cheaper way would be to hunt up a smallish wood splitter and
swipe the engine and pump off it along with the small reservoir.

--
Steve W.
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,746
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers


Ignoramus25949 wrote:

On 2012-04-30, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus25949 wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.

This beavertail trailer, while also essentialy intermittent, takes a
lot more work per unit of operation (pull beavertail lock, pull
extension lock, raise tail, extend extension, lower tail). That would
take this little motor a long time and it may overheat and burn out.

Is my concern justified?

I have a few options for powering this trailer. I am basing this on my
assumption that all cylinders are double acting, so not a lot of fluid
is needed.

The options a

1) Install a truck wet kit. cost: $2,000.

2) Use a 12v hydraulic pump that I already have. Cost: Small $$ for
wiring.

3) Use a 115v, self contained power unit that I purchased yesterday
along with a hydraulic H-press for $195. I would take along a Honda
generator that we have to run this pump. Cost: $195, minus whatever $$$
I can get for the press without the hydraulic pump,and the four way
manual valve.

This is a 1.5 HP unit with a continuous duty Marathon motor.

The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.


The wet line kit for the tractor is the proper way to do it of course
and $2k isn't much in relation to the other costs related to the semi
and trailer.


The semi tractor cost me $2,300. I am reluctant to double its cost
with a wet kit.

I have seen a Landoll hydraulic everything trailer that was powered by
an onboard hydraulic unit run by a small diesel engine like a 3 cyl
Kubota.


Yep, so have I.

I would consider a small gas powered setup, basically just an 8hp gas
engine coupled to a gear pump and a tank just like a log splitter setup.
You wouldn't have any duty cycle issues, the trailer could be operated
without the tractor if needed and it should cost perhaps $750 to put
together.


My choice number 3 is almost what you are describing, except that
there is a generator and an electric motor in the middle. Like I said,
I already have a portable Honda generator, and since yesterday, have
this single phase 1.5 HP hydraulic power unit.

i


Personally I wouldn't want to put the extra hours on a good generator
like that. I'd rather pickup the few parts to assemble the basic gas
hydraulic power pack.
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers


"Ignoramus25949" wrote in
message

And all those surplus things at these surplus centers have some
fatal
flaws that make them somehow unusable for normal applications.
(which
is why they ended up at those surplus centers, cannot be sold
through
normal channels)

i


They may have an involute splined shaft that you can't find a pulley
or coupler for, and have to make it like I did.

The replacement keyed shaft hydraulic pump I bought from Bailey's for
$80 has been OK so far.

The 11 GPM log splitter pumps take a 5 HP gas engine.

You could monitor the 12V pump with an infrared thermometer and an
ammeter while you made tests. I modified a battery charger into an
adjustable 12V supply and used it to check out the HF 12V bilge pump
yesterday. I bought the pump to water my lawn from the rain barrels.
It doesn't seem to mind a high back pressure and flow restriction.

jsw


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,746
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers


Ignoramus25949 wrote:

On 2012-04-30, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:07:30 -0500, Ignoramus25949
wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.


Do the cylinders on your trailer use more than a gallon? You will
need a valve, extra hoses, heavy duty battery cable to the trailer,
and likely a larger reservoir, so this isn't as cheap as it seems.


True. Keep in mind though, that most cylinders there are double ended,
and those do not need a big reservoir.


This beavertail trailer, while also essentialy intermittent, takes a
lot more work per unit of operation (pull beavertail lock, pull
extension lock, raise tail, extend extension, lower tail). That would
take this little motor a long time and it may overheat and burn out.

Is my concern justified?

I have a few options for powering this trailer. I am basing this on my
assumption that all cylinders are double acting, so not a lot of fluid
is needed.


Oh, OK. Scratch the reservoir.


The options a

1) Install a truck wet kit. cost: $2,000.

2) Use a 12v hydraulic pump that I already have. Cost: Small $$ for
wiring.

3) Use a 115v, self contained power unit that I purchased yesterday
along with a hydraulic H-press for $195. I would take along a Honda
generator that we have to run this pump. Cost: $195, minus whatever $$$
I can get for the press without the hydraulic pump,and the four way
manual valve.

This is a 1.5 HP unit with a continuous duty Marathon motor.

The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.


I like #3 a lot, but what about a #4?

4) Mount a small gas engine and hyd pump with reservoir, creating a
local power unit usable anywhere? Cheaper than #3?

HF for the littlest Predator engine ($119), Burden Surplus for the
pump and valving ($250, 2spl DA), and maybe a tank, if you don't weld
up your own.
http://tinyurl.com/7pxq2y9 engine
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=9-8239-L 15.5gpm pump (7x
faster than the 12v model)



Plus filters, belts, pulleys, mountings etc


No belts or pulleys, direct coupled hydraulic pump. Mounting is just the
four base holes on the engine. A return line filter is cheap. The
trailer already has the valving, so all you need is a small tank and
some hoses.


In my experience, such projects end up very expensive and time
consuming. Plus I do not trust HF engines, but I do trust Honda.


Those engines are pretty decent clones of the major brands and seem
pretty reliable. Buy a second for the $120 and have it on hand for a
quick change if needed. Changing it would be some 8 bolts and 10
minutes.


And all those surplus things at these surplus centers have some fatal
flaws that make them somehow unusable for normal applications. (which
is why they ended up at those surplus centers, cannot be sold through
normal channels)


They aren't surplus, that is just the name of the company. at least 75%
of the stuff they sell is new.


I am not trying to be difficult, just stating my past experience. Say,
this hydraulic pump's description says "pump to operate hydraulic
wheel motors on zero turn radius equipment applications including
turf, light construction and other mobile equipment". What exactly it
means, I am not sure, but it makes me slightly suspicious of whether
this is a general purpose pump.


It will be a brand new Barnes two bolt mount two stage pump, not some
surplus oddball.


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,148
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

Ignoramus25949 wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.

The motor may look similar to a car starter, but is designed for
hydraulic pump service. You'd certainly get in trouble using it
for real continuous duty, but I'd think running it for several minutes
would not cause overheating.

Does your semi have a 12 V electrical system? Over the road semis
usually have a 24 V system, but intra-city semis can have a 12 V system.

I'd think having to haul an AC generator around would just make everything
more complicated.

Jon
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,417
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:07:30 -0500
Ignoramus25949 wrote:

big snip
The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.


Something like this:

http://fosterhydraulics.com/page/gas...c_trailer.html

A local trash/container hauler has something very similar on his haul
trailer. It has a radio remote control. Goes something like this;
starts the gas motor, leaves his truck in neutral, adjusts the tilt on
his trailer to the container via remote while standing right by it,
either hooks/unhooks winch cable, uses remote to control winch and or
hydraulic tilt on the trailer... Works really slick too...

More than you want to pay, but it has a nice parts list showing you
everything needed...


--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,746
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers


Jon Elson wrote:

Ignoramus25949 wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.

The motor may look similar to a car starter, but is designed for
hydraulic pump service. You'd certainly get in trouble using it
for real continuous duty, but I'd think running it for several minutes
would not cause overheating.


According to the specs I've found, standard duty cycle versions are
24sec on in 5min, and the extended duty ones are 39sec on in 5min.
Several min under full load and they're melting.
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

On 2012-04-30, Pete C. wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:

Ignoramus25949 wrote:

I have a 12v hydraulic power unit similar to this one:

http://goo.gl/UpLJG

The application (what I am trying to accomplish) is to operate this
hydraulic beavertail semi trailer:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Trailking/Trailking-0009.jpg

When OI think about using this pump, I become concerned that it is
operated by a starter-type 12v motor and is desighed for pick-up truck
liftgates or snowplows, that is, very intermittent duty.

The motor may look similar to a car starter, but is designed for
hydraulic pump service. You'd certainly get in trouble using it
for real continuous duty, but I'd think running it for several minutes
would not cause overheating.


According to the specs I've found, standard duty cycle versions are
24sec on in 5min, and the extended duty ones are 39sec on in 5min.
Several min under full load and they're melting.


Would not work for me...

i
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default 12v vs 115v hydraulic power units and hydraulic semi trailers

On 2012-04-30, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:07:30 -0500
Ignoramus25949 wrote:

big snip
The plus of number 3, as I see it, is that the 115v hydraulic power
unit there, is not intermittent duty, and could do the job, with less
financial risk than plopping down $2,000 on a real wet kit. It would
be slower to work the tail cylinders than the wet kit, due to less
horsepower, but it is not a big deal. It will, however, cost me extra $5
every time the tail is operated, to pay extra hourly salary tot he
operator.


Something like this:

http://fosterhydraulics.com/page/gas...c_trailer.html

A local trash/container hauler has something very similar on his haul
trailer. It has a radio remote control. Goes something like this;
starts the gas motor, leaves his truck in neutral, adjusts the tilt on
his trailer to the container via remote while standing right by it,
either hooks/unhooks winch cable, uses remote to control winch and or
hydraulic tilt on the trailer... Works really slick too...

More than you want to pay, but it has a nice parts list showing you
everything needed...



Way too expensive, I can have a real wet kit for this kind of money.

i
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ping ig or gunner, looking for a hydraulic power unit tnik Metalworking 9 January 26th 12 02:03 AM
Power/Force of hydraulic cylinder??? RBM[_3_] Home Repair 29 January 24th 11 12:26 AM
Usiing hydraulic motor to power mower CRL Metalworking 7 March 5th 06 10:46 PM
Hydraulic power textbooks or web sites? MetalHead Metalworking 5 July 12th 05 04:44 AM
Looking for Plans to build a hydraulic power pack? Joseph Metalworking 1 October 20th 03 11:33 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"