Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN

RogerN wrote:

Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN

No point to automating really, a standard progressive press is plenty
fast (~30 rds/min, 1,800 rds/hr) unless you are reloading many thousands
of rounds at a time at which point you really need a completely
different type of progressive press.

"RogerN" fired this volley in news:3I-
:

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

The only thing I've ever reloaded was shotgun shells, and that wasn't for
the cost, but because we were loading special flare inserts for the
Forestry Service.

But based upon what I've seen of progressive loading equipment, they
don't look too conducive to being extensively modified and automated.

Personally, I think it would be better to use commercial dies, and build
an automatic press from the ground up.

I have built two machines almost exactly like that for making pyrotechnic
gerbs (fountains). They feed "cartridges" (paper tubes) from bulk, size-
check each one, orient the mouths the correct way, place empty tubes for
loading, measure powder to within 0.15 grain, pour it in multiple
increments into the tubes, consolidate each increment, check the final
powder height, seal the tubes, eject the finished product from the
loader, and store the loaded tubes in containers.

I do not think I could have adapted manual loaders to do that... they
didn't build them with accommodating all the necessary "satellite"
mechanisms in mind.

LLoyd

On 3/27/2013 8:45 PM, RogerN wrote:
Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case& bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN



NOTHING is available on line, of course.
But there is ammo in the gun shops.
At least there was 30.30 every store I checked today.
Not a lot, but everybody had cartridges on the shelf.
So I bought 100 rounds (5 boxes) of 30.30 today for $20 a box.
That's about 2x what it was 30 years ago.

It IS an interesting question for any shooter, tho.

I have my new cowboy assault rifle to feed. (Eddie Likes!)
So I'm interested in rifle rounds (of the 30.30 Winchester flavor)

How does one get started reloading?
What is the basic equipment requirement?
Obvious mistakes not to make?

Assuming a minimum cost startup.
Buy bullets vs cast?
Gas seals?
Metal work on brass?
Primers?
Assembly?
Lube?

All that stuff?

Richard wrote:

It IS an interesting question for any shooter, tho.

I have my new cowboy assault rifle to feed. (Eddie Likes!)
So I'm interested in rifle rounds (of the 30.30 Winchester flavor)

How does one get started reloading?
What is the basic equipment requirement?
Obvious mistakes not to make?

Assuming a minimum cost startup.
Buy bullets vs cast?
Gas seals?
Metal work on brass?
Primers?
Assembly?
Lube?

All that stuff?

Press, dies, shell plate, primers, powder, bullets, brass to reload (or
new), case/sizing lube, reloading data book. Once setup your press cycle
should be around 2-3 seconds.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 20:45:52 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN


Dillon is the gold standard of progressive reloading units.

I'd suggest the 650 with a case feeder. You still pull the handle and
place the bullet. It easily runs at 30 rounds a minute once you're all
set up. No problem running 2K rounds after supper. Changeover to
another caliber is significant. For quicker changeovers and smaller
runs go to the 550 press - no case feeder, no auto rotation, less
stations.

if you want to REALLY crank them out, go to the 1050 press. This is
the one to use if you'd like to add a servo motor to run the crank and
sensors, PLC etc. then sit back and watch it run. other folks have
done this if you'd care to investigate. A fair bit of coin here, way
to much IMHO.

My son runs a 650 and does our 9mm, .223, and .308. I have a 550 and
do .50AE, .270, .3030, .45 ; need more dies for other calibers.

I'm watching for a .50 BMG press. Prices and availablity nuts right
now, I'm waiting a bit for bama scare #2 to subside.

karl

On 3/28/2013 2:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Dillon is the gold standard of progressive reloading units.

I'd suggest the 650 with a case feeder. You still pull the handle and
place the bullet. It easily runs at 30 rounds a minute once you're all
set up. No problem running 2K rounds after supper. Changeover to
another caliber is significant. For quicker changeovers and smaller
runs go to the 550 press - no case feeder, no auto rotation, less
stations.

if you want to REALLY crank them out, go to the 1050 press. This is
the one to use if you'd like to add a servo motor to run the crank and
sensors, PLC etc. then sit back and watch it run. other folks have
done this if you'd care to investigate. A fair bit of coin here, way
to much IMHO.

My son runs a 650 and does our 9mm, .223, and .308. I have a 550 and
do .50AE, .270, .3030, .45 ; need more dies for other calibers.

I'm watching for a .50 BMG press. Prices and availablity nuts right
now, I'm waiting a bit for bama scare #2 to subside.

karl


Cool...
http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/catid/1/pid/25792/BL_550_Basic_Loader
I guess it is assumed that you know what you are doing when you start
shopping for tools.

But there is a bit more involved, isn't there, Karl?
Getting all the adapters for a certain round in the forst place.

Resizing brass, and for rim headspaced brass for tube magazines, I see
that crimping (and doing it right!) is important.
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Lee-Crimp-Die/productDetail/Rifle-Dies/prod9999002251/cat100147

Also, a personal question, how do you keep track of how many times a
case has been reloaded?

Take it from the perspective of an interested party who has no
experience at all with the subject...

Obviously it's an equipment sport, but
Where to start?

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 20:45:52 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN


I think that first I'd have a look at then several "progressive"
loading machines that once loaded turn out one completed cartridge per
pull on the handle.

I used one for several years to turn out 12 ga. loads for trap
shooting and as the only "problem" was in changing loads. The machine
I had a sliding bar to meter the powder and shot so changing loads
involved new bars, bushing in metering holes, etc. But for something
like trap or target loading where you intend on turning put several
thousand rounds they are a good solution.

On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 02:39:53 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 3/28/2013 2:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Dillon is the gold standard of progressive reloading units.

I'd suggest the 650 with a case feeder. You still pull the handle and
place the bullet. It easily runs at 30 rounds a minute once you're all
set up. No problem running 2K rounds after supper. Changeover to
another caliber is significant. For quicker changeovers and smaller
runs go to the 550 press - no case feeder, no auto rotation, less
stations.

if you want to REALLY crank them out, go to the 1050 press. This is
the one to use if you'd like to add a servo motor to run the crank and
sensors, PLC etc. then sit back and watch it run. other folks have
done this if you'd care to investigate. A fair bit of coin here, way
to much IMHO.

My son runs a 650 and does our 9mm, .223, and .308. I have a 550 and
do .50AE, .270, .3030, .45 ; need more dies for other calibers.

I'm watching for a .50 BMG press. Prices and availablity nuts right
now, I'm waiting a bit for bama scare #2 to subside.

karl


Cool...
http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/catid/1/pid/25792/BL_550_Basic_Loader
I guess it is assumed that you know what you are doing when you start
shopping for tools.

But there is a bit more involved, isn't there, Karl?
Getting all the adapters for a certain round in the forst place.

Resizing brass, and for rim headspaced brass for tube magazines, I see
that crimping (and doing it right!) is important.
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Lee-Crimp-Die/productDetail/Rifle-Dies/prod9999002251/cat100147

Also, a personal question, how do you keep track of how many times a
case has been reloaded?

Take it from the perspective of an interested party who has no
experience at all with the subject...

Obviously it's an equipment sport, but
Where to start?

I loaded brass mostly target loads for pistol bulls eye shooting and
used to measure the case length only. Never annealed or kept track of
loading. I did re-load some 44 magnum stuff for a couple of Mdl. 92's
that I had converted from 44-40 but in those days long guns were
generally used for hunting so likely most of the brass was once fired
stuff.

You mention "cowboy shooting". Do you use cast bullets for that. If so
then you also need to get into bullet making, the various alloys,
hardening cast lead bullets, and, and, and.

--
Cheers,

John B.

Richard wrote:

Also, a personal question, how do you keep track of how many times a
case has been reloaded?

Assuming you aren't tumbling the brass, a sharpie mark on the head next
to the primer each time you reload it works fine.

On 3/27/2013 9:45 PM, RogerN wrote:
Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN



How many rounds a month do you use and how much money is your budget?

Buy a single stage press and learn the basics until it is second nature.
(you will ALWAYS have use for it in the future) All progressive
presses have their twittles and need constant TLC. Don't worry about
speed, worry about all the things that can kill or maim you or anybody
in the vicinity, AND ruin your firearm! I'm an NRA Certified Reloading
Instructor, I recommend you find one in your area and take the course,
the best money you'll spend in your reloading budget. The next thing
you WILL buy is a bunch of reloading manuals. I'll help you any way I can.

On 3/28/2013 6:24 AM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 02:39:53 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/28/2013 2:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Dillon is the gold standard of progressive reloading units.

I'd suggest the 650 with a case feeder. You still pull the handle and
place the bullet. It easily runs at 30 rounds a minute once you're all
set up. No problem running 2K rounds after supper. Changeover to
another caliber is significant. For quicker changeovers and smaller
runs go to the 550 press - no case feeder, no auto rotation, less
stations.

if you want to REALLY crank them out, go to the 1050 press. This is
the one to use if you'd like to add a servo motor to run the crank and
sensors, PLC etc. then sit back and watch it run. other folks have
done this if you'd care to investigate. A fair bit of coin here, way
to much IMHO.

My son runs a 650 and does our 9mm, .223, and .308. I have a 550 and
do .50AE, .270, .3030, .45 ; need more dies for other calibers.

I'm watching for a .50 BMG press. Prices and availablity nuts right
now, I'm waiting a bit for bama scare #2 to subside.

karl


Cool...
http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/catid/1/pid/25792/BL_550_Basic_Loader
I guess it is assumed that you know what you are doing when you start
shopping for tools.

But there is a bit more involved, isn't there, Karl?
Getting all the adapters for a certain round in the forst place.

Resizing brass, and for rim headspaced brass for tube magazines, I see
that crimping (and doing it right!) is important.
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Lee-Crimp-Die/productDetail/Rifle-Dies/prod9999002251/cat100147

Also, a personal question, how do you keep track of how many times a
case has been reloaded?

Take it from the perspective of an interested party who has no
experience at all with the subject...

Obviously it's an equipment sport, but
Where to start?

I loaded brass mostly target loads for pistol bulls eye shooting and
used to measure the case length only. Never annealed or kept track of
loading. I did re-load some 44 magnum stuff for a couple of Mdl. 92's
that I had converted from 44-40 but in those days long guns were
generally used for hunting so likely most of the brass was once fired
stuff.

You mention "cowboy shooting". Do you use cast bullets for that. If so
then you also need to get into bullet making, the various alloys,
hardening cast lead bullets, and, and, and.


I think not. At least for now. I think the wise course of action would
be to get started reloading in simpler steps.

BTW, I have a bunch of reloads from my late father-in-law's collection.
Two of them today failed to go into full battery.
Close - but no cigar.
The Winchester 94 won't release the firing pin if the lever is not all
the way up. That last silly millimeter is SO important.

I haven't mikes those two rounds yet. But I will tonight.

On 3/28/2013 10:39 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 3/27/2013 9:45 PM, RogerN wrote:
Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on
taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case
feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a
Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN



How many rounds a month do you use and how much money is your budget?

Buy a single stage press and learn the basics until it is second nature.
(you will ALWAYS have use for it in the future) All progressive presses
have their twittles and need constant TLC. Don't worry about speed,
worry about all the things that can kill or maim you or anybody in the
vicinity, AND ruin your firearm! I'm an NRA Certified Reloading
Instructor, I recommend you find one in your area and take the course,
the best money you'll spend in your reloading budget. The next thing you
WILL buy is a bunch of reloading manuals. I'll help you any way I can.


Well, obviously the more they cost, the less I can shoot.
(I hate when that happens)

I asked at the range today about a reloading instructor.
The gentleman who owns the place said they used to have all the
equipment on site to reload and an instructor to supervise.
(not the past tense)
He referred me to "the manual".

Tom, your advice, plus being certified, carries a lot of weight.
More so than the rest of the thundering herd, any way.

Out of 18 rounds, two failed to go into full battery today.
They were two of the four reloads I shot.
I'm curious as to why, of course.
But more interested in how to avoid that situation.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

On 3/27/2013 9:45 PM, RogerN wrote:
snip
My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN



How many rounds a month do you use and how much money is your budget?

Not very many rounds per month I just want to stock up on supplies since
ammo is a bit hard to find right now.

Buy a single stage press and learn the basics until it is second nature.
(you will ALWAYS have use for it in the future)

I have 3 single stage presses, well, 2-1/2 anyway, one of them is the Lee
hand press I use on 9mm sometimes. I don't load or shoot a lot but desire
to increase practice plus I have some AR-15's in the build process so I'm
adding .223 to my reloading capabilities.

All progressive presses have their twittles and need constant TLC. Don't
worry about speed, worry about all the things that can kill or maim you or
anybody in the vicinity, AND ruin your firearm! I'm an NRA Certified
Reloading Instructor, I recommend you find one in your area and take the
course, the best money you'll spend in your reloading budget. The next
thing you WILL buy is a bunch of reloading manuals. I'll help you any way
I can.

I'd prefer to fiddle with a press for an hour and load for an hour than load
for 2 hours without fiddling with the press. I don't mind as much spending
time tweaking a press in, but when the adjusting is done, I'd prefer to
crank out parts in as little time as possible. Soft of like machining, I'd
prefer to fiddle with a CNC even if I could do a short run just as fast with
a manual machine because I enjoy the challenge and not so much cranking
handles.

If I get everything else right, I figure powder overcharge could be hard to
detect once the bullet is in...

At work we have a chemical weighing system, the bucket tare weight is stored
in memory and the final weight is the total weight less that buckets tare
weight. Depending on weight consistency of bullets and primers, I can
automatically weigh each empty cartridge when it goes in, store the weight,
and check how much weight is gained when it comes out. Powder weight =
final weight - bullet weight - cartridge weight - difference in primer
weight..

Anyway, the powder I bought for 223's and the bullet weight I have allows
for compressed load, so if it doubles the powder won't all fit in the case.

RogerN

Roger,
The most hazardous thing is the squib or ammo loaded with no powder.
The primer will give just enough pop to push the bullet down the
barrel a bit. Next round will chamber. if you pull the trigger, the
weapon will explode.
Karl

On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 18:55:24 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 3/28/2013 6:24 AM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 02:39:53 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/28/2013 2:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Dillon is the gold standard of progressive reloading units.

I'd suggest the 650 with a case feeder. You still pull the handle and
place the bullet. It easily runs at 30 rounds a minute once you're all
set up. No problem running 2K rounds after supper. Changeover to
another caliber is significant. For quicker changeovers and smaller
runs go to the 550 press - no case feeder, no auto rotation, less
stations.

if you want to REALLY crank them out, go to the 1050 press. This is
the one to use if you'd like to add a servo motor to run the crank and
sensors, PLC etc. then sit back and watch it run. other folks have
done this if you'd care to investigate. A fair bit of coin here, way
to much IMHO.

My son runs a 650 and does our 9mm, .223, and .308. I have a 550 and
do .50AE, .270, .3030, .45 ; need more dies for other calibers.

I'm watching for a .50 BMG press. Prices and availablity nuts right
now, I'm waiting a bit for bama scare #2 to subside.

karl


Cool...
http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/catid/1/pid/25792/BL_550_Basic_Loader
I guess it is assumed that you know what you are doing when you start
shopping for tools.

But there is a bit more involved, isn't there, Karl?
Getting all the adapters for a certain round in the forst place.

Resizing brass, and for rim headspaced brass for tube magazines, I see
that crimping (and doing it right!) is important.
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Lee-Crimp-Die/productDetail/Rifle-Dies/prod9999002251/cat100147

Also, a personal question, how do you keep track of how many times a
case has been reloaded?

Take it from the perspective of an interested party who has no
experience at all with the subject...

Obviously it's an equipment sport, but
Where to start?

I loaded brass mostly target loads for pistol bulls eye shooting and
used to measure the case length only. Never annealed or kept track of
loading. I did re-load some 44 magnum stuff for a couple of Mdl. 92's
that I had converted from 44-40 but in those days long guns were
generally used for hunting so likely most of the brass was once fired
stuff.

You mention "cowboy shooting". Do you use cast bullets for that. If so
then you also need to get into bullet making, the various alloys,
hardening cast lead bullets, and, and, and.


I think not. At least for now. I think the wise course of action would
be to get started reloading in simpler steps.

BTW, I have a bunch of reloads from my late father-in-law's collection.
Two of them today failed to go into full battery.
Close - but no cigar.
The Winchester 94 won't release the firing pin if the lever is not all
the way up. That last silly millimeter is SO important.

I haven't mikes those two rounds yet. But I will tonight.


If a 30-30 round won't chamber there is really something wrong. the
head space is taken on the rim so if the case won't fully chamber the
shoulder is rather far forward.... or the bullet is protruding a lot
more then it should.

What I would do if competition shooting with a rimmed cartridge and
used brass would be to full length resize all the brass, at least the
first time, and make up a dummy cartridge as a master for how deep to
seat the bullet, unless of course you always use the same bullet.

With a tubular magazine you also need to decide how heavy a crimp you
need to keep the things together :-)

Generally speaking, unless you are going for the last FPS you can
squeeze out you aren't going to have a lot of case problems... I am
assuming that you are not trying for the last possible foot per second
in muzzle velocity for cowboy shooting ... and if you were to load a
30-30 to its original specifications you probably will never need to
worry about the cases.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Karl Townsend wrote:

Roger,
The most hazardous thing is the squib or ammo loaded with no powder.
The primer will give just enough pop to push the bullet down the
barrel a bit. Next round will chamber. if you pull the trigger, the
weapon will explode.
Karl

The powder checker plunger dies help avoid that if you watch them as you
cycle the handle on the press.

On Mar 28, 1:39*am, Richard wrote:
On 3/28/2013 2:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:







Dillon is the gold standard of progressive reloading units.

I'd suggest the 650 with a case feeder. You still pull the handle and
place the bullet. It easily runs at 30 rounds a minute once you're all
set up. No problem running 2K rounds after supper. Changeover to
another caliber is significant. For quicker changeovers and smaller
runs go to the 550 press - no case feeder, no auto rotation, less
stations.

if you want to REALLY crank them out, go to the 1050 press. This is
the one to use if you'd like to add a servo motor to run the crank and
sensors, PLC etc. then sit back and watch it run. other folks have
done this if you'd care to investigate. A fair bit of coin here, way
to much IMHO.

My son runs a 650 and does our 9mm, .223, and .308. I have a 550 and
do .50AE, .270, .3030, .45 ; need more dies for other calibers.

I'm watching for a .50 BMG press. Prices and availablity nuts right
now, I'm waiting a bit for bama scare #2 to subside.

karl

Cool...
http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/catid/1/pid/25792/BL_550_B...
I guess it is assumed that you know what you are doing when you start
shopping for tools.

But there is a bit more involved, isn't there, Karl?
Getting all the adapters for a certain round in the forst place.

Resizing brass, and for rim headspaced brass for tube magazines, I see
that crimping (and doing it right!) is important.
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Lee-Crimp-Die/productDe...

Also, a personal question, how do you keep track of how many times a
case has been reloaded?

Take it from the perspective of an interested party who has no
experience at all with the subject...

Obviously it's an equipment sport, but
Where to start?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

For low pressure rounds like .45 ACP, you'll lose them before they
become unable to be reloaded. Guys use them until the headstamps are
pounded off and beyond. For rifle rounds, part of the process is
checking for cracks and incipient head separations, you just don't
dump high-pressure loads into rifle brass without inspecting the
empties first. I never keep track of how many times something's been
reloaded. If a case is within length specs, the neck's not too thick
and there are no cracks or stretch marks, it's loaded.

Progressives can load a lot of ammo fast. They can also load a lot of
bad and/or dangerous ammo fast as well. Too many folks think that
they just load up hoppers, pump the lever and ammo automagically
appears. It still takes a lot of process control, maybe more, since
you aren't handling the pieces with every round loaded. Can lead to
damaged guns and/or shooters.

As far as where to start, read a book FIRST. ABCs of Reloading is one
place, up to 9th or 10th edition, all that changes that I can see is
the pictures of equipment from edition to edition. Most libraries
I've been in have a copy. Then start out with a single station
press. Right now is kind of tough to get started, primers are in
short supply as is new brass.

Stan

On 3/29/2013 7:03 AM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:


If a 30-30 round won't chamber there is really something wrong. the
head space is taken on the rim so if the case won't fully chamber the
shoulder is rather far forward.... or the bullet is protruding a lot
more then it should.

What I would do if competition shooting with a rimmed cartridge and
used brass would be to full length resize all the brass, at least the
first time, and make up a dummy cartridge as a master for how deep to
seat the bullet, unless of course you always use the same bullet.

With a tubular magazine you also need to decide how heavy a crimp you
need to keep the things together :-)

Generally speaking, unless you are going for the last FPS you can
squeeze out you aren't going to have a lot of case problems... I am
assuming that you are not trying for the last possible foot per second
in muzzle velocity for cowboy shooting ... and if you were to load a
30-30 to its original specifications you probably will never need to
worry about the cases.

I hear that.

For what it's worth, this ammo came from my late father-in-law's
collection.

I went through all of that last night.
Factory loads (Winchester and Remington) were exactly 50 mm long.
Some of the handloads were 1 to 1.5 mm longer. So maybe...

But the real difference, and I'm guessing the reason these rounds (six
of then) wouldn't load is that the necks were bigger; fatter.
4 or 5 thousanths? Could that make such a difference?

I need to go back to school reading inch micrometers.
My large frame ones are all metric, but he small ones are inch.
I confuse easily these days...

Here's a Lee Load Master with a homemade case feeder and homemade bullet
feeder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9C3ru3FKV0

I found one of these presses in stock for .223 for $243 and ordered it
yesterday.
https://fsreloading.com/lee-precisio...ton-90922.html

RogerN

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:55:08 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 3/29/2013 7:03 AM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:


If a 30-30 round won't chamber there is really something wrong. the
head space is taken on the rim so if the case won't fully chamber the
shoulder is rather far forward.... or the bullet is protruding a lot
more then it should.

What I would do if competition shooting with a rimmed cartridge and
used brass would be to full length resize all the brass, at least the
first time, and make up a dummy cartridge as a master for how deep to
seat the bullet, unless of course you always use the same bullet.

With a tubular magazine you also need to decide how heavy a crimp you
need to keep the things together :-)

Generally speaking, unless you are going for the last FPS you can
squeeze out you aren't going to have a lot of case problems... I am
assuming that you are not trying for the last possible foot per second
in muzzle velocity for cowboy shooting ... and if you were to load a
30-30 to its original specifications you probably will never need to
worry about the cases.

I hear that.

For what it's worth, this ammo came from my late father-in-law's
collection.

I went through all of that last night.
Factory loads (Winchester and Remington) were exactly 50 mm long.
Some of the handloads were 1 to 1.5 mm longer. So maybe...

But the real difference, and I'm guessing the reason these rounds (six
of then) wouldn't load is that the necks were bigger; fatter.
4 or 5 thousanths? Could that make such a difference?

I need to go back to school reading inch micrometers.
My large frame ones are all metric, but he small ones are inch.
I confuse easily these days...

You need to determine the design sizes for your ammo - in the case of
30-30 it is 2.0395 long (51.80 mm) but in addition you need to have
the shoulder in the right place - it starts 1.4405 from the base - but
this is hard to measure so most people initially full length resize
the case. than when fired the case expands (fire forms) to fit your
chamber and from then on you just measure the length of the case and
trim if necessary.

Generally speaking you can figure that any factory chamber will be
safe with any "standard" cartridge case.

AS for mixed measuring instruments, it can be a problem. I recently
had the use of a fellow's shop in Singapore for a week. His lathe and
milling machine were both metric and his measuring tools were imperial
:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/29/2013 7:37 PM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:55:08 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/29/2013 7:03 AM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:


If a 30-30 round won't chamber there is really something wrong. the
head space is taken on the rim so if the case won't fully chamber the
shoulder is rather far forward.... or the bullet is protruding a lot
more then it should.

What I would do if competition shooting with a rimmed cartridge and
used brass would be to full length resize all the brass, at least the
first time, and make up a dummy cartridge as a master for how deep to
seat the bullet, unless of course you always use the same bullet.

With a tubular magazine you also need to decide how heavy a crimp you
need to keep the things together :-)

Generally speaking, unless you are going for the last FPS you can
squeeze out you aren't going to have a lot of case problems... I am
assuming that you are not trying for the last possible foot per second
in muzzle velocity for cowboy shooting ... and if you were to load a
30-30 to its original specifications you probably will never need to
worry about the cases.

I hear that.

For what it's worth, this ammo came from my late father-in-law's
collection.

I went through all of that last night.
Factory loads (Winchester and Remington) were exactly 50 mm long.
Some of the handloads were 1 to 1.5 mm longer. So maybe...

But the real difference, and I'm guessing the reason these rounds (six
of then) wouldn't load is that the necks were bigger; fatter.
4 or 5 thousanths? Could that make such a difference?

I need to go back to school reading inch micrometers.
My large frame ones are all metric, but he small ones are inch.
I confuse easily these days...

You need to determine the design sizes for your ammo - in the case of
30-30 it is 2.0395 long (51.80 mm) but in addition you need to have
the shoulder in the right place - it starts 1.4405 from the base - but
this is hard to measure so most people initially full length resize
the case. than when fired the case expands (fire forms) to fit your
chamber and from then on you just measure the length of the case and
trim if necessary.

Generally speaking you can figure that any factory chamber will be
safe with any "standard" cartridge case.

AS for mixed measuring instruments, it can be a problem. I recently
had the use of a fellow's shop in Singapore for a week. His lathe and
milling machine were both metric and his measuring tools were imperial
:-)


thank you, sir.
that made sense...

On 3/28/2013 10:40 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/28/2013 10:39 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 3/27/2013 9:45 PM, RogerN wrote:
Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on
taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case
feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a
Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN



How many rounds a month do you use and how much money is your budget?

Buy a single stage press and learn the basics until it is second nature.
(you will ALWAYS have use for it in the future) All progressive presses
have their twittles and need constant TLC. Don't worry about speed,
worry about all the things that can kill or maim you or anybody in the
vicinity, AND ruin your firearm! I'm an NRA Certified Reloading
Instructor, I recommend you find one in your area and take the course,
the best money you'll spend in your reloading budget. The next thing you
WILL buy is a bunch of reloading manuals. I'll help you any way I can.


Well, obviously the more they cost, the less I can shoot.
(I hate when that happens)

I asked at the range today about a reloading instructor.
The gentleman who owns the place said they used to have all the le
equipment on site to reload and an instructor to supervise.
(not the past tense)
He referred me to "the manual".

Tom, your advice, plus being certified, carries a lot of weight.
More so than the rest of the thundering herd, any way.

Out of 18 rounds, two failed to go into full battery today.
They were two of the four reloads I shot.
I'm curious as to why, of course.
But more interested in how to avoid that situation.






Make and model of gun and history? Bullet style, powder and weight, OAL
amd headstamp of brass and finished round, dies used? Lots of causes.
Auto reloads are trickier than revolver reloads. It took me months to
get a 1911 to be 100% reliable with semi-wadcutters.

On 3/29/2013 12:16 AM, RogerN wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

On 3/27/2013 9:45 PM, RogerN wrote:
snip
My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN



How many rounds a month do you use and how much money is your budget?

Not very many rounds per month I just want to stock up on supplies since
ammo is a bit hard to find right now.

Buy a single stage press and learn the basics until it is second nature.
(you will ALWAYS have use for it in the future)

I have 3 single stage presses, well, 2-1/2 anyway, one of them is the Lee
hand press I use on 9mm sometimes. I don't load or shoot a lot but desire
to increase practice plus I have some AR-15's in the build process so I'm
adding .223 to my reloading capabilities.

All progressive presses have their twittles and need constant TLC. Don't
worry about speed, worry about all the things that can kill or maim you or
anybody in the vicinity, AND ruin your firearm! I'm an NRA Certified
Reloading Instructor, I recommend you find one in your area and take the
course, the best money you'll spend in your reloading budget. The next
thing you WILL buy is a bunch of reloading manuals. I'll help you any way
I can.

I'd prefer to fiddle with a press for an hour and load for an hour than load
for 2 hours without fiddling with the press. I don't mind as much spending
time tweaking a press in, but when the adjusting is done, I'd prefer to
crank out parts in as little time as possible. Soft of like machining, I'd
prefer to fiddle with a CNC even if I could do a short run just as fast with
a manual machine because I enjoy the challenge and not so much cranking
handles.

If I get everything else right, I figure powder overcharge could be hard to
detect once the bullet is in...

At work we have a chemical weighing system, the bucket tare weight is stored
in memory and the final weight is the total weight less that buckets tare
weight. Depending on weight consistency of bullets and primers, I can
automatically weigh each empty cartridge when it goes in, store the weight,
and check how much weight is gained when it comes out. Powder weight =
final weight - bullet weight - cartridge weight - difference in primer
weight..

Anyway, the powder I bought for 223's and the bullet weight I have allows
for compressed load, so if it doubles the powder won't all fit in the case.

RogerN




Then all that matters is what your favorite color is! Pick your poison.

On 3/29/2013 8:08 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

Roger,
The most hazardous thing is the squib or ammo loaded with no powder.
The primer will give just enough pop to push the bullet down the
barrel a bit. Next round will chamber. if you pull the trigger, the
weapon will explode.
Karl

The powder checker plunger dies help avoid that if you watch them as you
cycle the handle on the press.


I don't have room for one so I set up a lighted web-cam that peers into
the case after charging and records the video and displays it on a
monitor in front of me. See:
http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...9mm3gr700x.jpg

On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 01:28:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 3/28/2013 10:40 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/28/2013 10:39 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 3/27/2013 9:45 PM, RogerN wrote:
Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on
taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case
feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a
Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN



How many rounds a month do you use and how much money is your budget?

Buy a single stage press and learn the basics until it is second nature.
(you will ALWAYS have use for it in the future) All progressive presses
have their twittles and need constant TLC. Don't worry about speed,
worry about all the things that can kill or maim you or anybody in the
vicinity, AND ruin your firearm! I'm an NRA Certified Reloading
Instructor, I recommend you find one in your area and take the course,
the best money you'll spend in your reloading budget. The next thing you
WILL buy is a bunch of reloading manuals. I'll help you any way I can.


Well, obviously the more they cost, the less I can shoot.
(I hate when that happens)

I asked at the range today about a reloading instructor.
The gentleman who owns the place said they used to have all the le
equipment on site to reload and an instructor to supervise.
(not the past tense)
He referred me to "the manual".

Tom, your advice, plus being certified, carries a lot of weight.
More so than the rest of the thundering herd, any way.

Out of 18 rounds, two failed to go into full battery today.
They were two of the four reloads I shot.
I'm curious as to why, of course.
But more interested in how to avoid that situation.






Make and model of gun and history? Bullet style, powder and weight, OAL
amd headstamp of brass and finished round, dies used? Lots of causes.
Auto reloads are trickier than revolver reloads. It took me months to
get a 1911 to be 100% reliable with semi-wadcutters.

But that is usually (at least partially) a mechanical problem. Usually
you need to reshape the feed ramp a bit and polish it. and, of course,
your recoil spring needs to match the loads which, if you shoot
"hardball" out of a wad cutter gun (to use bulls eye terms) or
vis-versa you'll figure out right smartly :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

On 3/29/2013 12:16 AM, RogerN wrote:
snip

Anyway, the powder I bought for 223's and the bullet weight I have allows
for compressed load, so if it doubles the powder won't all fit in the
case.

RogerN


Then all that matters is what your favorite color is! Pick your poison.

I found a Lee LoadMaster .223 in stock for $243 and ordered it. I plan to
set up for 9mm also, ordered a couple spare 5-hole turrets but the shell
plates for 9mm were out of stock.

A video I watched showed a setup where they ran the cases through to
de-prime and trim, not sure about sizing. Then through the case tumbler to
polish and deburr. The 2nd time through, the cases were loaded. For the
..223 I'm planning to dedicate 1 shell plate for case preparation and have
turrets set up for loading prepared brass. I guess if I leave resizing to
the 2nd pass, there may not be that much change over to convert the brass
preparation turret (1st pass) to different cartridges.

I saw you have a ?guide rod? coming up from the shell plate through the
turret on yours? I guess that helps keep the ram straight? Seems like a
good idea as the shell plate gets further from the lower guide, the upper
guide would be good support, plus could be handy for actuating things on top
if needed.

RogerN

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:55:08 -0500
Richard wrote:

snip
But the real difference, and I'm guessing the reason these rounds (six
of then) wouldn't load is that the necks were bigger; fatter.
4 or 5 thousanths? Could that make such a difference?

Something to keep in mind is that the 30-30 case can be resized and
used as a 32 Special case. If your late father-in-law happened to have
a 32 Special around be very careful...

Here is a forum entry with some discussion on this:

http://www.shootersforum.com/levergu...r-special.html

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 3/30/2013 7:46 AM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 01:28:43 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 3/28/2013 10:40 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/28/2013 10:39 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 3/27/2013 9:45 PM, RogerN wrote:
Possible metalworking content!

Ammo's difficult to find and usually expensive so any thoughts on
taking a
progressive press and making it as automatic as practical?

I saw some interesting videos online of presses, some homemade case
feeders,
bullet feeders, etc. Some you only had to pull the handle, some had the
handle attached to a gear motor crank.

Any thoughts on suitable presses to start with?

I've been looking at Lee load masters, they are cheaper but maybe fore a
reason. Can you use a better quality powder measure with the Lee load
master?

Or would I be better off starting with the Hornady Lock N Load or a
Dillon?

My goal is to reload for now and further automate (case & bullet
feeders(homemade?)) later.

RogerN



How many rounds a month do you use and how much money is your budget?

Buy a single stage press and learn the basics until it is second nature.
(you will ALWAYS have use for it in the future) All progressive presses
have their twittles and need constant TLC. Don't worry about speed,
worry about all the things that can kill or maim you or anybody in the
vicinity, AND ruin your firearm! I'm an NRA Certified Reloading
Instructor, I recommend you find one in your area and take the course,
the best money you'll spend in your reloading budget. The next thing you
WILL buy is a bunch of reloading manuals. I'll help you any way I can.


Well, obviously the more they cost, the less I can shoot.
(I hate when that happens)

I asked at the range today about a reloading instructor.
The gentleman who owns the place said they used to have all the le
equipment on site to reload and an instructor to supervise.
(not the past tense)
He referred me to "the manual".

Tom, your advice, plus being certified, carries a lot of weight.
More so than the rest of the thundering herd, any way.

Out of 18 rounds, two failed to go into full battery today.
They were two of the four reloads I shot.
I'm curious as to why, of course.
But more interested in how to avoid that situation.






Make and model of gun and history? Bullet style, powder and weight, OAL
amd headstamp of brass and finished round, dies used? Lots of causes.
Auto reloads are trickier than revolver reloads. It took me months to
get a 1911 to be 100% reliable with semi-wadcutters.

But that is usually (at least partially) a mechanical problem. Usually
you need to reshape the feed ramp a bit and polish it. and, of course,
your recoil spring needs to match the loads which, if you shoot
"hardball" out of a wad cutter gun (to use bulls eye terms) or
vis-versa you'll figure out right smartly :-)



I do have the right compromise, i use bot hardball and SWC's with equal
reliability. Any gunsmith will cringe when ramp work is
discussed...unless it's obvious. In my case it was a SA Loaded 1911
that should NEVER need smith work for tens of thousands of rounds. I do
have a knock-off that spent a lot of hours on my bench before I liked it.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 21:36:56 -0500, Richard
wrote:

It IS an interesting question for any shooter, tho.

I have my new cowboy assault rifle to feed. (Eddie Likes!)
So I'm interested in rifle rounds (of the 30.30 Winchester flavor)

How does one get started reloading?
What is the basic equipment requirement?
Obvious mistakes not to make?

Assuming a minimum cost startup.
Buy bullets vs cast?
Gas seals?
Metal work on brass?
Primers?
Assembly?
Lube?

All that stuff?

1. Put the word out that you are looking for a reloading press. Just
about any reloading press...even...cringe..a Lee. (more on this later)

RCBS (check Ebay for examples)
Pacific
Lyman
C&H
Hollywood

and way down at the bottom...Lee

Dies are readily available

If you are going to be reloading thousands of rounds per
sitting...then a progressive such as a Dillion are indicated. But they
really arent necessary for average reloaders and are not for beginners

The 3030 Winchester shoots cast bullets just fine. Cast bullets can
be shot at speeds up to 2000 FPS or a little faster, given a good
clean and crisp rifle barrel and are dirt cheap to make, to prepare
and to keep on hand. Marlins...not so good for cast bullets...if you
have the "microgroove" barrel. The new Ballard barrels shoot cast just
fine.

In fact..the 3030 can be fired with lead bullets at speeds matching
factory jacketed ammo, with some knowledge of what you are doing.

Gas checks..the little bit of metal added to the base of "some"
bullets have gone up in price over the last couple years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_check

However..there are a number of really good tools out there today that
use aluminum flashing that make your own gas checks with. Figure $100
for a unit in one caliber, or look at one, and then machine your very
own.
http://www.freechex.net/

http://www.patmarlins.com/

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/37...aker_Dies.html

Gas checks are used on bullets that are going to be fired at speeds
over 1600 fps (in general in rifles) and the bullet has to be a gas
check type

Many of us out there dont bother using gas checks until we are up to
2000 fps, but it does take some knowledge of what works and what
doesnt work...got an experienced friend around and they can help you.

Now here is a caviat. You MAY get cast bullets to shoot just as
accurately as jacketed bullets. And in fact..you probably will. But it
does take a bit more "fiddly" to get them to shoot as well. There is
a trade off...some big money involved to shoot jacketed bullets..or
little money and a bit more time to get cast to shoot properly.

As for Lee tools....cringe...they are good beginners tools..but sooner
or later..they are going to break. Period. Most can be easily fixed
and very cheaply..but it takes time to order the part, and have it
shipped to you. Shrug.

My RCBS Jr was purchased by me, new in 1977. Its cranked out somewhere
over 2 million rnds since then. No issues. My RockChucker was
purchased in 1980ish..and its cranked out at least that many rounds.
No issues.
My C&H AutoChamp III was used when I bought it in the early
1980s...and its approaching a million rounds. No issues.
My Lyman turret tool has done at least that many rounds. No issues.

Ive had a number of Lee tools and the only ones that are still
around..are the "auto primes"..and Ive broken at least 3 of the
toggles in them over the years. Cost a couple bucks to replace..but
they broke. So I ordered extras the last time.

Figure if you buy new setup..it will cost $450 with a mold, Lee
melting pot, press, RCBS/Lyman lubricator and die, powder measure,
reloading press, shell holder and trays etc etc.

If you haunt gun shows, second hand stores and FRIENDS...you can get
that down to a couple hundred or even less. I bought the entire
reloading setup from a friends widow for $100 and it doubled my
reloading gear. Some of it was better than what I had..and I either
surplused off the lesser quality gear to another shooter, or set up
another station.

Now..if you want to simply try your hand at reloading ..buy a Lee
Loader and a hammer. Order bullets ..jacketed or cast online.
Powder, primers etc etc and you will be set to load your own for well
under $100, total.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

Its not rocket science at the consumer level.

Gunner

On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 02:39:53 -0500, Richard
wrote:


Also, a personal question, how do you keep track of how many times a
case has been reloaded?

In a single gun thats easy on brass like the 3030...dont bother
keeping track of reloads. Simply toss the cases that get badly cracked
necks.

Ive got 3030s that have been reloaded over 50 times..with no issues.

I do "neck anneal" about ever 5-10 reloads with the 3030...but could
do it after every 15 reloads with no issues.

Other cartridges...somewhat more important. But the 3030 is one of
the easiest and finest cartridges to reload for, ever made.

Gunner

On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 18:55:24 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 3/28/2013 6:24 AM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 02:39:53 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/28/2013 2:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Dillon is the gold standard of progressive reloading units.

I'd suggest the 650 with a case feeder. You still pull the handle and
place the bullet. It easily runs at 30 rounds a minute once you're all
set up. No problem running 2K rounds after supper. Changeover to
another caliber is significant. For quicker changeovers and smaller
runs go to the 550 press - no case feeder, no auto rotation, less
stations.

if you want to REALLY crank them out, go to the 1050 press. This is
the one to use if you'd like to add a servo motor to run the crank and
sensors, PLC etc. then sit back and watch it run. other folks have
done this if you'd care to investigate. A fair bit of coin here, way
to much IMHO.

My son runs a 650 and does our 9mm, .223, and .308. I have a 550 and
do .50AE, .270, .3030, .45 ; need more dies for other calibers.

I'm watching for a .50 BMG press. Prices and availablity nuts right
now, I'm waiting a bit for bama scare #2 to subside.

karl


Cool...
http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/catid/1/pid/25792/BL_550_Basic_Loader
I guess it is assumed that you know what you are doing when you start
shopping for tools.

But there is a bit more involved, isn't there, Karl?
Getting all the adapters for a certain round in the forst place.

Resizing brass, and for rim headspaced brass for tube magazines, I see
that crimping (and doing it right!) is important.
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Lee-Crimp-Die/productDetail/Rifle-Dies/prod9999002251/cat100147

Also, a personal question, how do you keep track of how many times a
case has been reloaded?

Take it from the perspective of an interested party who has no
experience at all with the subject...

Obviously it's an equipment sport, but
Where to start?

I loaded brass mostly target loads for pistol bulls eye shooting and
used to measure the case length only. Never annealed or kept track of
loading. I did re-load some 44 magnum stuff for a couple of Mdl. 92's
that I had converted from 44-40 but in those days long guns were
generally used for hunting so likely most of the brass was once fired
stuff.

You mention "cowboy shooting". Do you use cast bullets for that. If so
then you also need to get into bullet making, the various alloys,
hardening cast lead bullets, and, and, and.


I think not. At least for now. I think the wise course of action would
be to get started reloading in simpler steps.

BTW, I have a bunch of reloads from my late father-in-law's collection.
Two of them today failed to go into full battery.
Close - but no cigar.
The Winchester 94 won't release the firing pin if the lever is not all
the way up. That last silly millimeter is SO important.

I haven't mikes those two rounds yet. But I will tonight.

Ill bet you found that the shoulder was a bit far forward. Thats
because they were fired and then neck sized for another rifle.

Not all chambers are alike, or even similar.

Gunner

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:55:08 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 3/29/2013 7:03 AM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:


If a 30-30 round won't chamber there is really something wrong. the
head space is taken on the rim so if the case won't fully chamber the
shoulder is rather far forward.... or the bullet is protruding a lot
more then it should.

What I would do if competition shooting with a rimmed cartridge and
used brass would be to full length resize all the brass, at least the
first time, and make up a dummy cartridge as a master for how deep to
seat the bullet, unless of course you always use the same bullet.

With a tubular magazine you also need to decide how heavy a crimp you
need to keep the things together :-)

Generally speaking, unless you are going for the last FPS you can
squeeze out you aren't going to have a lot of case problems... I am
assuming that you are not trying for the last possible foot per second
in muzzle velocity for cowboy shooting ... and if you were to load a
30-30 to its original specifications you probably will never need to
worry about the cases.

I hear that.

For what it's worth, this ammo came from my late father-in-law's
collection.

I went through all of that last night.
Factory loads (Winchester and Remington) were exactly 50 mm long.
Some of the handloads were 1 to 1.5 mm longer. So maybe...

But the real difference, and I'm guessing the reason these rounds (six
of then) wouldn't load is that the necks were bigger; fatter.
4 or 5 thousanths? Could that make such a difference?

Yes indeed. And they could..could have been reloaded as 32
Winchester..a cartridge that is identical to the 3030..but uses a
slightly larger diameter bullet.

I need to go back to school reading inch micrometers.
My large frame ones are all metric, but he small ones are inch.
I confuse easily these days...

A cheap digital caliper is a very good tool for the handloader. HF
sells em for under $15 and its all you need.

Gunner

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:20:42 -0700 (PDT), Stanley Schaefer
wrote:

On Mar 28, 1:39Â*am, Richard wrote:
On 3/28/2013 2:12 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:







Dillon is the gold standard of progressive reloading units.

I'd suggest the 650 with a case feeder. You still pull the handle and
place the bullet. It easily runs at 30 rounds a minute once you're all
set up. No problem running 2K rounds after supper. Changeover to
another caliber is significant. For quicker changeovers and smaller
runs go to the 550 press - no case feeder, no auto rotation, less
stations.

if you want to REALLY crank them out, go to the 1050 press. This is
the one to use if you'd like to add a servo motor to run the crank and
sensors, PLC etc. then sit back and watch it run. other folks have
done this if you'd care to investigate. A fair bit of coin here, way
to much IMHO.

My son runs a 650 and does our 9mm, .223, and .308. I have a 550 and
do .50AE, .270, .3030, .45 ; need more dies for other calibers.

I'm watching for a .50 BMG press. Prices and availablity nuts right
now, I'm waiting a bit for bama scare #2 to subside.

karl

Cool...
http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/catid/1/pid/25792/BL_550_B...
I guess it is assumed that you know what you are doing when you start
shopping for tools.

But there is a bit more involved, isn't there, Karl?
Getting all the adapters for a certain round in the forst place.

Resizing brass, and for rim headspaced brass for tube magazines, I see
that crimping (and doing it right!) is important.
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Lee-Crimp-Die/productDe...

Also, a personal question, how do you keep track of how many times a
case has been reloaded?

Take it from the perspective of an interested party who has no
experience at all with the subject...

Obviously it's an equipment sport, but
Where to start?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

For low pressure rounds like .45 ACP, you'll lose them before they
become unable to be reloaded. Guys use them until the headstamps are
pounded off and beyond. For rifle rounds, part of the process is
checking for cracks and incipient head separations, you just don't
dump high-pressure loads into rifle brass without inspecting the
empties first. I never keep track of how many times something's been
reloaded. If a case is within length specs, the neck's not too thick
and there are no cracks or stretch marks, it's loaded.

Progressives can load a lot of ammo fast. They can also load a lot of
bad and/or dangerous ammo fast as well. Too many folks think that
they just load up hoppers, pump the lever and ammo automagically
appears. It still takes a lot of process control, maybe more, since
you aren't handling the pieces with every round loaded. Can lead to
damaged guns and/or shooters.

As far as where to start, read a book FIRST. ABCs of Reloading is one
place, up to 9th or 10th edition, all that changes that I can see is
the pictures of equipment from edition to edition. Most libraries
I've been in have a copy. Then start out with a single station
press. Right now is kind of tough to get started, primers are in
short supply as is new brass.

Stan

Excellent! post.

I could ship Richard some brass (gratis) and maybe a tray or two of
primers...shrug... if he wants to start out cheap.

I happen to have a couple cubic feet of 3030 brass. Well..(1.5) 5
gallon buckets or more of the stuff

Ill have to check on what bullets I could ship him. Or fire up the
pot and cast him some.

Gunner

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 05:52:42 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

Roger,
The most hazardous thing is the squib or ammo loaded with no powder.
The primer will give just enough pop to push the bullet down the
barrel a bit. Next round will chamber. if you pull the trigger, the
weapon will explode.
Karl


It Can explode. Or simply bulge the barrel

Gunner, with a nearly perfect 38/44 Outdoorsman that had (5) 158gr
JHPs lodged in the barrel and forcing cone when he got it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...22083 4900578

On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 01:37:42 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 3/29/2013 8:08 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

Roger,
The most hazardous thing is the squib or ammo loaded with no powder.
The primer will give just enough pop to push the bullet down the
barrel a bit. Next round will chamber. if you pull the trigger, the
weapon will explode.
Karl

The powder checker plunger dies help avoid that if you watch them as you
cycle the handle on the press.


I don't have room for one so I set up a lighted web-cam that peers into
the case after charging and records the video and displays it on a
monitor in front of me. See:
http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...9mm3gr700x.jpg


You could manufacture and sell that setup. Seriously.

Gunner

On 3/30/2013 7:52 AM, RogerN wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

On 3/29/2013 12:16 AM, RogerN wrote:
snip

Anyway, the powder I bought for 223's and the bullet weight I have allows
for compressed load, so if it doubles the powder won't all fit in the
case.

RogerN


Then all that matters is what your favorite color is! Pick your poison.

I found a Lee LoadMaster .223 in stock for $243 and ordered it. I plan to
set up for 9mm also, ordered a couple spare 5-hole turrets but the shell
plates for 9mm were out of stock.

A video I watched showed a setup where they ran the cases through to
de-prime and trim, not sure about sizing. Then through the case tumbler to
polish and deburr. The 2nd time through, the cases were loaded. For the
.223 I'm planning to dedicate 1 shell plate for case preparation and have
turrets set up for loading prepared brass. I guess if I leave resizing to
the 2nd pass, there may not be that much change over to convert the brass
preparation turret (1st pass) to different cartridges.

I saw you have a ?guide rod? coming up from the shell plate through the
turret on yours? I guess that helps keep the ram straight? Seems like a
good idea as the shell plate gets further from the lower guide, the upper
guide would be good support, plus could be handy for actuating things on top
if needed.

RogerN



The bore in my press is a bit more sloppy than I like so the pin keeps
the pressure on the shell plate even in all stations. Lee offered to
replace it but my solution is better that a perfect bore.

See this forum, it's great for the Loadmaster!

http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/f...wforum.php?f=2

On 3/30/2013 2:53 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I hear that.

For what it's worth, this ammo came from my late father-in-law's
collection.

I went through all of that last night.
Factory loads (Winchester and Remington) were exactly 50 mm long.
Some of the handloads were 1 to 1.5 mm longer. So maybe...

But the real difference, and I'm guessing the reason these rounds (six
of then) wouldn't load is that the necks were bigger; fatter.
4 or 5 thousanths? Could that make such a difference?

Yes indeed. And they could..could have been reloaded as 32
Winchester..a cartridge that is identical to the 3030..but uses a
slightly larger diameter bullet.

I need to go back to school reading inch micrometers.
My large frame ones are all metric, but he small ones are inch.
I confuse easily these days...

A cheap digital caliper is a very good tool for the handloader. HF
sells em for under $15 and its all you need.

Gunner



Huh! I've checked them against the 32Win dimensions, and I do believe
you are right!

On 2013-03-30, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 21:36:56 -0500, Richard
wrote:

It IS an interesting question for any shooter, tho.

I have my new cowboy assault rifle to feed. (Eddie Likes!)
So I'm interested in rifle rounds (of the 30.30 Winchester flavor)

How does one get started reloading?
What is the basic equipment requirement?
Obvious mistakes not to make?

Assuming a minimum cost startup.
Buy bullets vs cast?
Gas seals?
Metal work on brass?
Primers?
Assembly?
Lube?

All that stuff?

1. Put the word out that you are looking for a reloading press. Just
about any reloading press...even...cringe..a Lee. (more on this later)

What I currently have

RCBS (check Ebay for examples)

Pacific
Lyman

I started with this

C&H

Never even heard of the one below. :-)

Hollywood

and way down at the bottom...Lee

Yep!

Dies are readily available

Very. I've gotten extras to upgrade my setup from hamfests and
eBay. (In particular, going for the carbide sizing dies for revolver
rounds.

If you are going to be reloading thousands of rounds per
sitting...then a progressive such as a Dillion are indicated. But they
really arent necessary for average reloaders and are not for beginners

Agreed. I've never felt the need for that, actually.

The 3030 Winchester shoots cast bullets just fine. Cast bullets can
be shot at speeds up to 2000 FPS or a little faster, given a good
clean and crisp rifle barrel and are dirt cheap to make, to prepare
and to keep on hand. Marlins...not so good for cast bullets...if you
have the "microgroove" barrel. The new Ballard barrels shoot cast just
fine.

In fact..the 3030 can be fired with lead bullets at speeds matching
factory jacketed ammo, with some knowledge of what you are doing.

Gas checks..the little bit of metal added to the base of "some"
bullets have gone up in price over the last couple years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_check

And -- somewhere between factory jacketed bullets and ones with
gas checks are the ones made with a swaging press. A top-end RCBS could
handle both that and the normal reloading tasks.

For cast bullets -- you want an alloy which is harder than plain
lead. Find things like old linotype metal or used wheel weights --
though I understand that they are now lead-free thanks to the
worry-warts. :-)

For swaged bullets, you start with soft plain lead.

I don't remember seeing swaging tools being pushed these days.

However..there are a number of really good tools out there today that
use aluminum flashing that make your own gas checks with. Figure $100
for a unit in one caliber, or look at one, and then machine your very
own.
http://www.freechex.net/

http://www.patmarlins.com/

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/37...aker_Dies.html

Interesting.

I tend to prefer (for revolvers) half jacketed semi-wadcutters.
And soft-point 3/4 jacketed bullets for the .22 Jet (no semi-wadcutters
for that caliber, and I'm n to sure how they would like the velocity
from the .22 Jet anyway. :-)

Gas checks are used on bullets that are going to be fired at speeds
over 1600 fps (in general in rifles) and the bullet has to be a gas
check type

Many of us out there dont bother using gas checks until we are up to
2000 fps, but it does take some knowledge of what works and what
doesnt work...got an experienced friend around and they can help you.

Now here is a caviat. You MAY get cast bullets to shoot just as
accurately as jacketed bullets. And in fact..you probably will. But it
does take a bit more "fiddly" to get them to shoot as well.

Including tuning the alloy.

There is
a trade off...some big money involved to shoot jacketed bullets..or
little money and a bit more time to get cast to shoot properly.

My RCBS Jr was purchased by me, new in 1977.

Hmm ... my RCBS A2 was closer to 1970 or so.

Its cranked out somewhere
over 2 million rnds since then. No issues. My RockChucker was
purchased in 1980ish..and its cranked out at least that many rounds.
No issues.

*Very* good tools.

My C&H AutoChamp III was used when I bought it in the early
1980s...and its approaching a million rounds. No issues.
My Lyman turret tool has done at least that many rounds. No issues.

I passed mine on to a friend who was getting started.

Ive had a number of Lee tools and the only ones that are still
around..are the "auto primes"..and Ive broken at least 3 of the
toggles in them over the years. Cost a couple bucks to replace..but
they broke. So I ordered extras the last time.

:-)

Figure if you buy new setup..it will cost $450 with a mold, Lee
melting pot, press, RCBS/Lyman lubricator and die, powder measure,
reloading press, shell holder and trays etc etc.

Or -- for swaged bullets, you need the swaging dies, a more
powerful and rigid press, but you don't need the mold, melting pot, and
lubricator.

[ ... ]

Now..if you want to simply try your hand at reloading ..buy a Lee
Loader and a hammer. Order bullets ..jacketed or cast online.
Powder, primers etc etc and you will be set to load your own for well
under $100, total.

However -- if you use this, be *sure* to wear safety glasses. I
started with one of these (.38 Special, FWIW). Fine-tuning the force
generated by the hammer is tricky, and you will pop a certain number of
primers. (Maybe having just the right weight hammer would help, but I
did not have a variety to try back then. :-) My eyes never got hit, but
I got primer blast on my forehead a few times, and a lot more often on
my fingers holding the rod. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

Its not rocket science at the consumer level.

Agreed.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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