Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best concealed under what type of clothing.

I seriously don't get it.

If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is not self-defense, what is it?

It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have over the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with guns on their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them, there may be conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.

So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the advantage?

On 12/17/2012 12:36 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best concealed under what type of clothing.

I seriously don't get it.

If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is not self-defense, what is it?

It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have over the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with guns on their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them, there may be conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.

So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the advantage?


Forgive the off-topic post... But I believe it has a lot to do with the
way you will be treated by those not wanting to attack you in some places.

For instance, here in NJ a gun on your hip says, "cop" or "DANGER!" and
nothing really in between.

Imagine going to church or to a school to pick up your kids with a Dirty
Harry 45 on your hip VS having a concealed whatever wherever.

the chances of being involved in a mass shooting are less than the
chances of being struck by lightening. More likely, it will be a
robbery, assault, etc. ...and in those cases, you often don't want the
other person to know what you have on you because they will want to
steal it / use it against you.

--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2012 12:36 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent
discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best
concealed under what type of clothing.

I seriously don't get it.

If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be
better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the
world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is
not self-defense, what is it?

It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have
over the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with
guns on their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them,
there may be conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.

So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the
advantage?


Forgive the off-topic post... But I believe it has a lot to do with the
way you will be treated by those not wanting to attack you in some places.

For instance, here in NJ a gun on your hip says, "cop" or "DANGER!" and
nothing really in between.

Imagine going to church or to a school to pick up your kids with a Dirty
Harry 45 on your hip VS having a concealed whatever wherever.

the chances of being involved in a mass shooting are less than the chances
of being struck by lightening. More likely, it will be a robbery,
assault, etc. ...and in those cases, you often don't want the other
person to know what you have on you because they will want to steal it /
use it against you.

Hey Joe, no offense, but your opinion on guns sort of don't count.... cuz,
well *you are bulletproof*.... LOL

Also, the ccw has an inneresting statistical effect....
IF ccw is established policy, not a lot of people in fact need carry at all,
bec the simple element of doubt keeps the bad guys guessing -- and ergo less
active.

Seems there are two solutions to The New Paranoia:
Arm everybody (who's employed/retired, tax-paying, w/ a "clean" record),
or arm no one.

Personally, I'd go with Arm Everyone -- more 2nd amendment friendly, of
course.
Then we could proly downsize our VERY 'spensive pleece depts, SWAT teams.



--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Dood, when did you become interested in The Mind****.... I mean,
brainwashing??

--
EA




Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Dood, when did you become interested in The Mind****.... I mean,
brainwashing??

Right around the time I woke up... Always had it in mind, never really
talked about it. Now I'm independently perturbed.



--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Dood, when did you become interested in The Mind****.... I mean,
brainwashing??

Right around the time I woke up... Always had it in mind, never really
talked about it. Now I'm independently perturbed.

It is very perturbing indeed -- it almost raises the question of reality
itself....
You can actually *make* the un-real real, or at least have the un-real have
profound impact and effect, even if you reject notions of the un-real --
it's called Tyranny of the Mind****ed Majority. Think stadium stampede.....

Heh, Virtual Clothes come to mind.... you ackshooly pay REAL money to dress
up cyber figurines in cyber clothes.... holy ****.....
Abs come to mind.....
Sports is a biggie.... Fantasy Football a literal example....

And, well, religion/politics come to mind.... but later on that.

Hey, my Haas GR510 is coming soon. You'll HAVE to come over then... LOL
--
EA





--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

Hey, my Haas GR510 is coming soon. You'll HAVE to come over then... LOL

When you has a Haas, they will come.



--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:52:11 -0500, Joe AutoDrill
wrote:

On 12/17/2012 12:36 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best concealed under what type of clothing.

I seriously don't get it.

If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is not self-defense, what is it?

It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have over the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with guns on their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them, there may be conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.

So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the advantage?


Forgive the off-topic post... But I believe it has a lot to do with the
way you will be treated by those not wanting to attack you in some places.

For instance, here in NJ a gun on your hip says, "cop" or "DANGER!" and
nothing really in between.

Imagine going to church or to a school to pick up your kids with a Dirty
Harry 45 on your hip VS having a concealed whatever wherever.

the chances of being involved in a mass shooting are less than the
chances of being struck by lightening. More likely, it will be a
robbery, assault, etc. ...and in those cases, you often don't want the
other person to know what you have on you because they will want to
steal it / use it against you.


Correct. Having an exposed firearm simply gives the assailant reason
to shoot you in the back before rifling through your pockets as your
corpse twitches.

Gunner who has had 6 occasions to present his concealed weapon to
assailants in the past 30 yrs, and no shots were fired but the
attackers were thwarted each and every time.



The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:40:27 PM UTC-5, Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:52:11 -0500, Joe AutoDrill

wrote:



On 12/17/2012 12:36 PM, rangerssuck wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best concealed under what type of clothing.



I seriously don't get it.



If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is not self-defense, what is it?



It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have over the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with guns on their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them, there may be conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.



So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the advantage?





Forgive the off-topic post... But I believe it has a lot to do with the

way you will be treated by those not wanting to attack you in some places.



For instance, here in NJ a gun on your hip says, "cop" or "DANGER!" and

nothing really in between.



Imagine going to church or to a school to pick up your kids with a Dirty

Harry 45 on your hip VS having a concealed whatever wherever.



the chances of being involved in a mass shooting are less than the

chances of being struck by lightening. More likely, it will be a

robbery, assault, etc. ...and in those cases, you often don't want the

other person to know what you have on you because they will want to

steal it / use it against you.





Correct. Having an exposed firearm simply gives the assailant reason

to shoot you in the back before rifling through your pockets as your

corpse twitches.



Gunner who has had 6 occasions to present his concealed weapon to

assailants in the past 30 yrs, and no shots were fired but the

attackers were thwarted each and every time.


By "present", do you mean you actually drew the weapon and pointed it towards the assailant, or do you mean smomething more along the lines of lifting your shirt or opening your jacket so that they could see that there was a weapon within reach? If the former, why do you think they did not proceed to shoot you while you were drawing your weapon? If the latter, why do you think they did not shoot you before you had a chance to do you harm?

It seems that if the assailant you referred to in the prior paragraph would have been willing to shoot you in the back because you were carrying an unconcealed weapon, he'd be even more motivated to shoot you in the front after you had showed him your previously concealed gun. No?

I know how difficult it is to prove a negative, and that it is equally (or more) difficult to guess what would have happened, but are there any real statistics to back up the premise that one is safer with a concealed weapon than without one? How about with a concealed weapon versus an unconcealed weapon?

I also understand what Joe said about how other people would react to a person wearing a visible gun, but how do those people feel about the possibility that there may be one under your shirt or in your pocket? Living in Northern NJ as I do, this has not really been much of a factor in my life. It's not very likely that the average Joe around here (or in adjacent NY) is carrying a concealed weapon. I certainly have met my share of people who were scary enough without the thought that there might be a gun in their pocket, I doubt they would have been any less scary had I had a gun in mine.

All that said, and I really don't want to pull this even further off topic, I do wish it was legal to buy and own the larger sizes of pepper spray / mace / tear gas in NJ. There are times when I would feel better having some non-lethal home protection device at my disposal.









The methodology of the left has always been:



1. Lie

2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible

3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible

4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie

5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw

6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:06:12 PM UTC-6, rangerssuck wrote:
On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:40:27 PM UTC-5, Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:52:11 -0500, Joe AutoDrill



wrote:







On 12/17/2012 12:36 PM, rangerssuck wrote:



Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best concealed under what type of clothing.







I seriously don't get it.







If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is not self-defense, what is it?







It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have over the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with guns on their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them, there may be conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.







So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the advantage?











Forgive the off-topic post... But I believe it has a lot to do with the



way you will be treated by those not wanting to attack you in some places.







For instance, here in NJ a gun on your hip says, "cop" or "DANGER!" and



nothing really in between.







Imagine going to church or to a school to pick up your kids with a Dirty



Harry 45 on your hip VS having a concealed whatever wherever.







the chances of being involved in a mass shooting are less than the



chances of being struck by lightening. More likely, it will be a



robbery, assault, etc. ...and in those cases, you often don't want the



other person to know what you have on you because they will want to



steal it / use it against you.











Correct. Having an exposed firearm simply gives the assailant reason



to shoot you in the back before rifling through your pockets as your



corpse twitches.







Gunner who has had 6 occasions to present his concealed weapon to



assailants in the past 30 yrs, and no shots were fired but the



attackers were thwarted each and every time.





By "present", do you mean you actually drew the weapon and pointed it towards the assailant, or do you mean smomething more along the lines of lifting your shirt or opening your jacket so that they could see that there was a weapon within reach? If the former, why do you think they did not proceed to shoot you while you were drawing your weapon? If the latter, why do you think they did not shoot you before you had a chance to do you harm?



It seems that if the assailant you referred to in the prior paragraph would have been willing to shoot you in the back because you were carrying an unconcealed weapon, he'd be even more motivated to shoot you in the front after you had showed him your previously concealed gun. No?



I know how difficult it is to prove a negative, and that it is equally (or more) difficult to guess what would have happened, but are there any real statistics to back up the premise that one is safer with a concealed weapon than without one? How about with a concealed weapon versus an unconcealed weapon?



I also understand what Joe said about how other people would react to a person wearing a visible gun, but how do those people feel about the possibility that there may be one under your shirt or in your pocket? Living in Northern NJ as I do, this has not really been much of a factor in my life. It's not very likely that the average Joe around here (or in adjacent NY) is carrying a concealed weapon. I certainly have met my share of people who were scary enough without the thought that there might be a gun in their pocket, I doubt they would have been any less scary had I had a gun in mine.



All that said, and I really don't want to pull this even further off topic, I do wish it was legal to buy and own the larger sizes of pepper spray / mace / tear gas in NJ. There are times when I would feel better having some non-lethal home protection device at my disposal.



















The methodology of the left has always been:







1. Lie



2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible



3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible



4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie



5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw



6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Hornet Spray is even better than pepper spray, it is legal, doesn't look to be scary, and will temporarily blind the recipient.

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 13:40:27 -0800, Gunner
wrote:


Gunner who has had 6 occasions to present his concealed weapon to
assailants in the past 30 yrs, and no shots were fired but the
attackers were thwarted each and every time.

I take it these assailants were riding two-hundred and sixty-FIVE mph
motorcycles...

On Monday, December 17, 2012 7:08:31 PM UTC-5, Cross-Slide wrote:
On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:06:12 PM UTC-6, rangerssuck wrote:
[snip]
All that said, and I really don't want to pull this even further off topic, I do wish it was legal to buy and own the larger sizes of pepper spray / mace / tear gas in NJ. There are times when I would feel better having some non-lethal home protection device at my disposal.


Hornet Spray is even better than pepper spray, it is legal, doesn't
look to be scary, and will temporarily blind the recipient.

Didn't we have this conversation not-to-long ago, in which at least a few people said it was in violation of federal law to shoot someone with hornet spray and that you'd have a ****storm of legal crap if you did so?

Not that I would hesitate to protect myself and my family for fear of federal paperwork, but if it could be voided, so much the better.

Also, I saw some pepper spray devices that seem pretty formidable. They go out 20 or so feet and then form a fog. At least that sounds good on paper. I did see a phone guy saturate a hornet's nest at the top of a pole while he stood on the ground, so I agree, those cans are pretty powerful...

You should research this. Not true.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp
http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/crime/a/wasp_spray.htm

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Cross-Slide" wrote in message
...

Hornet Spray is even better than pepper spray,
it is legal, doesn't look to be scary, and will
temporarily blind the recipient.

Please click the links on my other post.

Wasp spray is not effective on humans.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...

I did see a phone guy saturate a hornet's nest at the top of a pole while he
stood on the ground, so I agree, those cans are pretty powerful...

Many years ago, our society included a lot of ranchers, outdoor men, and
others who used guns in their trades. Guns were used often enough, shooting
stray animals, etc. As people moved to town, we got to relying on the
govenment agents to shoot stray animals, etc.

Fewer people carried guns, and the media and entertainment started to
portray guns as evil. Now, when a law abiding citizen carries openly, scared
people call the cops. It's a sad commentary on society. Fewer real working
men, and more scared people.

The secondary advantage, is that the crooks don't know who is armed. Helps
to keep the crooks in check.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent
discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best
concealed under what type of clothing.

I seriously don't get it.

If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be
better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the
world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is
not self-defense, what is it?

It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have over
the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with guns on
their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them, there may be
conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.

So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the
advantage?

In article , cayoung61
says...

Please click the links on my other post.

Wasp spray is not effective on humans.

Neither of those says it's not effective, just that it's not been
tested.

I wouldn't trust it but if it was the only thing ready to hand I'd sure
as hell try it.

J. Clarke wrote:
In article , cayoung61
says...

Please click the links on my other post.

Wasp spray is not effective on humans.

Neither of those says it's not effective, just that it's not been
tested.

I wouldn't trust it but if it was the only thing ready to hand I'd
sure as hell try it.

That stuff may not kill ya , but gettin' it in your eyes has GOT to
burn/hurt . When my wife was staying in our camper near the school where
she taught , and too far to commute I had her keep a can of it on the
nightstand . The shotgun was on the floor NEXT to the bed ... if nothing
else it should buy you some time to take other disabling actions . Hey ,
ballbats are still legal . For now .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

J. Clarke wrote:
In article , cayoung61
says...

Please click the links on my other post.

Wasp spray is not effective on humans.

Neither of those says it's not effective, just that it's not been
tested.

I wouldn't trust it but if it was the only thing ready to hand I'd
sure as hell try it.

Oh , and as far as concealed/open carry , in Tennessee the permit says
simply "hadgun carry permit" , not requiring concealment . They do strongly
suggest you conceal , because seeing those big bad killin' machine guns on
your hip causes some folks distress . And it causes others to change their
plans ... and choose a different victim .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

Snag wrote:

That stuff may not kill ya, but gettin' it in your eyes has GOT to
burn/hurt. When my wife was staying in our camper near the school where
she taught, and too far to commute I had her keep a can of it on the
nightstand. The shotgun was on the floor NEXT to the bed... if nothing
else it should buy you some time to take other disabling actions. Hey ,
ballbats are still legal. For now .


So are moonbats. For now. ;-)

Snag wrote:

That stuff may not kill ya, but gettin' it in your eyes has GOT to
burn/hurt. When my wife was staying in our camper near the school where
she taught, and too far to commute I had her keep a can of it on the
nightstand. The shotgun was on the floor NEXT to the bed... if nothing
else it should buy you some time to take other disabling actions. Hey ,
ballbats are still legal. For now.


So are moonbats. For now. ;-)

On 12/17/2012 7:08 PM, Cross-Slide wrote:
On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:06:12 PM UTC-6, rangerssuck wrote:
On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:40:27 PM UTC-5, Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:52:11 -0500, Joe AutoDrill



wrote:







On 12/17/2012 12:36 PM, rangerssuck wrote:



Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best concealed under what type of clothing.







I seriously don't get it.







If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is not self-defense, what is it?







It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have over the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with guns on their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them, there may be conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.







So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the advantage?











Forgive the off-topic post... But I believe it has a lot to do with the



way you will be treated by those not wanting to attack you in some places.







For instance, here in NJ a gun on your hip says, "cop" or "DANGER!" and



nothing really in between.







Imagine going to church or to a school to pick up your kids with a Dirty



Harry 45 on your hip VS having a concealed whatever wherever.







the chances of being involved in a mass shooting are less than the



chances of being struck by lightening. More likely, it will be a



robbery, assault, etc. ...and in those cases, you often don't want the



other person to know what you have on you because they will want to



steal it / use it against you.











Correct. Having an exposed firearm simply gives the assailant reason



to shoot you in the back before rifling through your pockets as your



corpse twitches.







Gunner who has had 6 occasions to present his concealed weapon to



assailants in the past 30 yrs, and no shots were fired but the



attackers were thwarted each and every time.





By "present", do you mean you actually drew the weapon and pointed it towards the assailant, or do you mean smomething more along the lines of lifting your shirt or opening your jacket so that they could see that there was a weapon within reach? If the former, why do you think they did not proceed to shoot you while you were drawing your weapon? If the latter, why do you think they did not shoot you before you had a chance to do you harm?



It seems that if the assailant you referred to in the prior paragraph would have been willing to shoot you in the back because you were carrying an unconcealed weapon, he'd be even more motivated to shoot you in the front after you had showed him your previously concealed gun. No?



I know how difficult it is to prove a negative, and that it is equally (or more) difficult to guess what would have happened, but are there any real statistics to back up the premise that one is safer with a concealed weapon than without one? How about with a concealed weapon versus an unconcealed weapon?



I also understand what Joe said about how other people would react to a person wearing a visible gun, but how do those people feel about the possibility that there may be one under your shirt or in your pocket? Living in Northern NJ as I do, this has not really been much of a factor in my life. It's not very likely that the average Joe around here (or in adjacent NY) is carrying a concealed weapon. I certainly have met my share of people who were scary enough without the thought that there might be a gun in their pocket, I doubt they would have been any less scary had I had a gun in mine.



All that said, and I really don't want to pull this even further off topic, I do wish it was legal to buy and own the larger sizes of pepper spray / mace / tear gas in NJ. There are times when I would feel better having some non-lethal home protection device at my disposal.



















The methodology of the left has always been:







1. Lie



2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible



3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible



4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie



5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw



6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Hornet Spray is even better than pepper spray, it is legal, doesn't look to be scary, and will temporarily blind the recipient.


I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.

On 12/18/2012 6:46 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Snag wrote:

That stuff may not kill ya, but gettin' it in your eyes has GOT to
burn/hurt. When my wife was staying in our camper near the school where
she taught, and too far to commute I had her keep a can of it on the
nightstand. The shotgun was on the floor NEXT to the bed... if nothing
else it should buy you some time to take other disabling actions. Hey ,
ballbats are still legal. For now.


So are moonbats. For now. ;-)


If only they weren't! Obammy wouldn't ever have been elected!

On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 18:46:54 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 12/17/2012 7:08 PM, Cross-Slide wrote:
On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:06:12 PM UTC-6, rangerssuck wrote:
On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:40:27 PM UTC-5, Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:52:11 -0500, Joe AutoDrill



wrote:







On 12/17/2012 12:36 PM, rangerssuck wrote:



Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best concealed under what type of clothing.







I seriously don't get it.







If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is not self-defense, what is it?







It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have over the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with guns on their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them, there may be conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.







So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the advantage?











Forgive the off-topic post... But I believe it has a lot to do with the



way you will be treated by those not wanting to attack you in some places.







For instance, here in NJ a gun on your hip says, "cop" or "DANGER!" and



nothing really in between.







Imagine going to church or to a school to pick up your kids with a Dirty



Harry 45 on your hip VS having a concealed whatever wherever.







the chances of being involved in a mass shooting are less than the



chances of being struck by lightening. More likely, it will be a



robbery, assault, etc. ...and in those cases, you often don't want the



other person to know what you have on you because they will want to



steal it / use it against you.











Correct. Having an exposed firearm simply gives the assailant reason



to shoot you in the back before rifling through your pockets as your



corpse twitches.







Gunner who has had 6 occasions to present his concealed weapon to



assailants in the past 30 yrs, and no shots were fired but the



attackers were thwarted each and every time.





By "present", do you mean you actually drew the weapon and pointed it towards the assailant, or do you mean smomething more along the lines of lifting your shirt or opening your jacket so that they could see that there was a weapon within reach? If the former, why do you think they did not proceed to shoot you while you were drawing your weapon? If the latter, why do you think they did not shoot you before you had a chance to do you harm?



It seems that if the assailant you referred to in the prior paragraph would have been willing to shoot you in the back because you were carrying an unconcealed weapon, he'd be even more motivated to shoot you in the front after you had showed him your previously concealed gun. No?



I know how difficult it is to prove a negative, and that it is equally (or more) difficult to guess what would have happened, but are there any real statistics to back up the premise that one is safer with a concealed weapon than without one? How about with a concealed weapon versus an unconcealed weapon?



I also understand what Joe said about how other people would react to a person wearing a visible gun, but how do those people feel about the possibility that there may be one under your shirt or in your pocket? Living in Northern NJ as I do, this has not really been much of a factor in my life. It's not very likely that the average Joe around here (or in adjacent NY) is carrying a concealed weapon. I certainly have met my share of people who were scary enough without the thought that there might be a gun in their pocket, I doubt they would have been any less scary had I had a gun in mine.



All that said, and I really don't want to pull this even further off topic, I do wish it was legal to buy and own the larger sizes of pepper spray / mace / tear gas in NJ. There are times when I would feel better having some non-lethal home protection device at my disposal.



















The methodology of the left has always been:







1. Lie



2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible



3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible



4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie



5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw



6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Hornet Spray is even better than pepper spray, it is legal, doesn't look to be scary, and will temporarily blind the recipient.


I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited. Drugs often make
Mace and other chemical agents not considered. I watched a guy take
at least a quart of burning gasoline in the face and find and spray
himself with a fire extinguisher to put out the flames.

But if all one has is wasp spray..its better than nothing. As for
me...a couple loads of #4 buck gets my vote


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Gunner wrote:

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited. Drugs often make
Mace and other chemical agents not considered. I watched a guy take
at least a quart of burning gasoline in the face and find and spray
himself with a fire extinguisher to put out the flames.

But if all one has is wasp spray..its better than nothing. As for
me...a couple loads of #4 buck gets my vote


How about using a can of starting fluid & a lighter?

I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.


I want to see a few independent tests on humans like you can find on
YouTube of pepper spray...

--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

Please provide a few credible, online reports of
the successful use.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks
wrote in message ...


Hornet Spray is even better than pepper spray, it is legal, doesn't look
to be scary, and will temporarily blind the recipient.


I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.

On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 07:13:41 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited. Drugs often make
Mace and other chemical agents not considered. I watched a guy take
at least a quart of burning gasoline in the face and find and spray
himself with a fire extinguisher to put out the flames.

But if all one has is wasp spray..its better than nothing. As for
me...a couple loads of #4 buck gets my vote


How about using a can of starting fluid & a lighter?

Flame doesnt go far enough. Nor does it last long enough. No
persistance.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 12/18/2012 4:28 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 18:46:54 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 12/17/2012 7:08 PM, Cross-Slide wrote:
On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:06:12 PM UTC-6, rangerssuck wrote:
On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:40:27 PM UTC-5, Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:52:11 -0500, Joe AutoDrill



wrote:







On 12/17/2012 12:36 PM, rangerssuck wrote:



Pardon my ignorance, but what's the big deal about ccw? In the recent discussion, there's been considerable talk of what kinds of guns are best concealed under what type of clothing.







I seriously don't get it.







If the objective in carrying a firearm is self-defense, wouldn't it be better to strap a big gun to your hip in plain sight and announce to the world, "Don't **** with me or you will be shot."? And if the objective is not self-defense, what is it?







It has long been my feeling that this is the one thing that cops have over the general public. They may be assholes, but they are assholes with guns on their belts - in plain sight. If you don't cooperate with them, there may be conequences involving loud noises and lead projectiles.







So, what's the deal with wanting to conceal your weapons? What is the advantage?











Forgive the off-topic post... But I believe it has a lot to do with the



way you will be treated by those not wanting to attack you in some places.







For instance, here in NJ a gun on your hip says, "cop" or "DANGER!" and



nothing really in between.







Imagine going to church or to a school to pick up your kids with a Dirty



Harry 45 on your hip VS having a concealed whatever wherever.







the chances of being involved in a mass shooting are less than the



chances of being struck by lightening. More likely, it will be a



robbery, assault, etc. ...and in those cases, you often don't want the



other person to know what you have on you because they will want to



steal it / use it against you.











Correct. Having an exposed firearm simply gives the assailant reason



to shoot you in the back before rifling through your pockets as your



corpse twitches.







Gunner who has had 6 occasions to present his concealed weapon to



assailants in the past 30 yrs, and no shots were fired but the



attackers were thwarted each and every time.





By "present", do you mean you actually drew the weapon and pointed it towards the assailant, or do you mean smomething more along the lines of lifting your shirt or opening your jacket so that they could see that there was a weapon within reach? If the former, why do you think they did not proceed to shoot you while you were drawing your weapon? If the latter, why do you think they did not shoot you before you had a chance to do you harm?



It seems that if the assailant you referred to in the prior paragraph would have been willing to shoot you in the back because you were carrying an unconcealed weapon, he'd be even more motivated to shoot you in the front after you had showed him your previously concealed gun. No?



I know how difficult it is to prove a negative, and that it is equally (or more) difficult to guess what would have happened, but are there any real statistics to back up the premise that one is safer with a concealed weapon than without one? How about with a concealed weapon versus an unconcealed weapon?



I also understand what Joe said about how other people would react to a person wearing a visible gun, but how do those people feel about the possibility that there may be one under your shirt or in your pocket? Living in Northern NJ as I do, this has not really been much of a factor in my life. It's not very likely that the average Joe around here (or in adjacent NY) is carrying a concealed weapon. I certainly have met my share of people who were scary enough without the thought that there might be a gun in their pocket, I doubt they would have been any less scary had I had a gun in mine.



All that said, and I really don't want to pull this even further off topic, I do wish it was legal to buy and own the larger sizes of pepper spray / mace / tear gas in NJ. There are times when I would feel better having some non-lethal home protection device at my disposal.



















The methodology of the left has always been:







1. Lie



2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible



3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible



4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie



5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw



6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Hornet Spray is even better than pepper spray, it is legal, doesn't look to be scary, and will temporarily blind the recipient.


I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited.

Bull****. Crikey - you are the most comical pseudo-tough braggart in years.


--
Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs.

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:13:41 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
How about using a can of starting fluid & a lighter?

Inside the house?!?

On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 07:54:43 -0500, Joe AutoDrill
wrote:

I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.


I want to see a few independent tests on humans like you can find on
YouTube of pepper spray...

Pepper spray comes in a number of "strengths"..called Scovill Units.

"Pepper Spray Strength Information

You have probably heard lots of different information regarding the
strength, or punch, or heat of pepper sprays. We believe that the only
accurate way to measure the strength is to use APPROVED SCIENTIFIC
METHODS.

The measure of pepper spray strength is the percentage of
capsaicinoids present in the spray mix. The capsaicinoid level in any
product can be measured in the laboratory using an instrument called a
High Performance Liquid Chromatograph (HPLC). Laboratory methods are
established by both the Association of Analytical Communities (AOAC),
Method 995.03, and the American Spice Trade Association (ASTA), Method
21.3.

Capsaicinoids found in red pepper extract consist of three very
similar chemical compounds. These compounds can temporarily produce
severe skin irritation, cause the eyes to slam shut, cause spasms in
the lungs, produce uncontrolled sneezing and large amounts of sinus
mucus. This combination of physiologically catastrophic events can
temporarily incapacitate an individual and eliminate the need for the
use of lethal force.

Knowing or specifying the percentage of capsaicinoids contained in a
pepper spray mix eliminates the guesswork when you are comparing or
evaluating pepper spray effectiveness. For example, a pepper spray
containing 0.2% capsaicinoids packs much less punch than one that
contains .6%. The good pepper sprays will have the percent
capsaicinoid content of the mix printed conspicuously on the label for
easy comparison ... as all of ours DO! For more information about
capsaicinoid measurement or Scoville Heat Unit measurements, download
a copy of our technical note from the Publications page"

http://www.priax.com/html/publications.html

..
That being said..some people, due to drugs, booze, mental issues
etc..are simply not going to be effected as deeply as normal people by
the same mix. Which is one of the reasons that Mace was generally
phased out. It simply didnt work on dogs or the mentally screwed.

Pepper spray does work on dogs and the nutcases to varing degrees and
sometimes over a longer period of time than one might wish for. Ive
seen a guy take a face full of pepper spray and beat up two cops
before suddenly going blind (That pesky PR-24 to the back of his head
may have had something to do with the sudden vision problem shrug)

So it isnt a magic bullet in the slightest in every case. Or in all
cases.

Here is a decent write up on the differences between pepper spray,
Mace and whatnot. Written for the everyday person.

http://www.milestonesafety.com/peppe...formation.html

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited.

That's it! No more "Green Mile" for you.

Steve

On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:02:34 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
wrote:


I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited.

Bull****. Crikey - you are the most comical pseudo-tough braggart in years.

pseudo-tough braggart for stating Ive seen something awful happen?

You really are a wackjob ,you know. Really.

So what was your MOS? Which police agency did you work for?

Hummm?

Gunner
RVN 71-73, FCSO, 76-84

Sua Sponte



The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 12/19/2012 9:46 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:02:34 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
wrote:


I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited.

Bull****. Crikey - you are the most comical pseudo-tough braggart in years.

pseudo-tough braggart for stating Ive seen something awful happen?

For *always* having some "you can't top this" bit of bull**** handy.

You weren't a Ranger; you weren't in Vietnam. Cut the ****, buddy.


--
Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs.

On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 10:03:27 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
wrote:

On 12/19/2012 9:46 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:02:34 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
wrote:


I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited.

Bull****. Crikey - you are the most comical pseudo-tough braggart in years.

pseudo-tough braggart for stating Ive seen something awful happen?

For *always* having some "you can't top this" bit of bull**** handy.

You weren't a Ranger; you weren't in Vietnam. Cut the ****, buddy.

Cites?

Trot em out.

VBG

We are all waiting for your proof.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 12/19/2012 10:26 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 10:03:27 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
wrote:

On 12/19/2012 9:46 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:02:34 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
wrote:


I've been advocating Hornet Spray for YEARS! It's one of the best home
defense items available! A big can has more "shots" than a bananna
magazine. No holes in the wall and non-lethal...just wash the walls
after you soak the intruder down.

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited.

Bull****. Crikey - you are the most comical pseudo-tough braggart in years.

pseudo-tough braggart for stating Ive seen something awful happen?

For *always* having some "you can't top this" bit of bull**** handy.

You weren't a Ranger; you weren't in Vietnam. Cut the ****, buddy.

Cites?

guffaw No, the burden of proof is on you. Prove that you were a
Ranger and were in Vietnam.

We've been waiting for years. You can't do it - you know you can't, we
know you can't, and we know that you know you can't because it's bull****.


--
Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs.

Gunner wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 07:13:41 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

Who will be around to wash the walls? Ive seen more than one person
killed by someone that was assumed to be incapacited. Drugs often make
Mace and other chemical agents not considered. I watched a guy take
at least a quart of burning gasoline in the face and find and spray
himself with a fire extinguisher to put out the flames.

But if all one has is wasp spray..its better than nothing. As for
me...a couple loads of #4 buck gets my vote


How about using a can of starting fluid & a lighter?

Flame doesnt go far enough. Nor does it last long enough. No
persistance.


Soak them first, then light them up.

rangerssuck wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:13:41 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
How about using a can of starting fluid & a lighter?

Inside the house?!?


Is your aim that bad?

On 12/19/2012 10:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

rangerssuck wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:13:41 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
How about using a can of starting fluid & a lighter?

Inside the house?!?


Is your aim that bad?

Even if your aim is perfect, do you think some guy running around your
house covered in flames is a good idea? You idiot.


--
Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs.

"Fred C. Dobbs" wrote:

On 12/19/2012 10:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

rangerssuck wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:13:41 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
How about using a can of starting fluid & a lighter?

Inside the house?!?


Is your aim that bad?

Even if your aim is perfect, do you think some guy running around your
house covered in flames is a good idea? You idiot.


What makes you think he'll be able to get past me & into the house?
You idiot.

On 12/19/2012 11:23 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Fred C. Dobbs" wrote:

On 12/19/2012 10:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

rangerssuck wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:13:41 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
How about using a can of starting fluid & a lighter?

Inside the house?!?


Is your aim that bad?

Even if your aim is perfect, do you think some guy running around your
house covered in flames is a good idea? You idiot.


What makes you think he'll be able to get past me & into the house?

By presumption, he was already inside the house. Go back and reread the
thread, you ****wit.


--
Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs.

"Fred C. Dobbs" wrote:

On 12/19/2012 11:23 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Fred C. Dobbs" wrote:

On 12/19/2012 10:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

rangerssuck wrote:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:13:41 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
How about using a can of starting fluid & a lighter?

Inside the house?!?


Is your aim that bad?

Even if your aim is perfect, do you think some guy running around your
house covered in flames is a good idea? You idiot.


What makes you think he'll be able to get past me & into the house?

By presumption, he was already inside the house. Go back and reread the
thread, you ****wit.


Yawn. You read it. it didn't say WHERE HE WAS IN THE HOUSE. You
haven't seen my house. It has an outer door, a very small entry way and
another locked door. Simply spray the perp as you kick his sorry ass
out the first door. Then let him lay there where there is nothing
combustible and light him up. Anyone who has to resort to childish
terms like '****wit' are admiting defeat and that they don't have the
ability to debate anyone.