http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

i

On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 20:25:50 -0500, Ignoramus11296
wrote:


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

i

Dynapath control. Good machine!

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

On 2012-09-24, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 20:25:50 -0500, Ignoramus11296
wrote:


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

i

Dynapath control. Good machine!


At this point, I have gotten it to power up and to move the axes.

i

Ignoramus11296 wrote:


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

i
If it has a standard 3-phase motor for the spindle, then it may be
easier to replace the whole VFD than mess with repairs. Most likely
if the brake resistor smoked, the power module that controls the
brake has blown. If it has a separate transistor for that, it is
repairable. if it is an all-in-one power module, it does not make
sense to repair it, as your cost on a new module could be greater than
for a whole surplus VFD.

Jon

On 2012-09-24, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11296 wrote:


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

i
If it has a standard 3-phase motor for the spindle, then it may be
easier to replace the whole VFD than mess with repairs. Most likely
if the brake resistor smoked, the power module that controls the
brake has blown. If it has a separate transistor for that, it is
repairable. if it is an all-in-one power module, it does not make
sense to repair it, as your cost on a new module could be greater than
for a whole surplus VFD.

I spent a while on my knees today in front of that VFD.

It is a Yaskawa G3 branded Saftronics.

Supposedly, even with the drive wired for remote operation, I could
make the motor jog by pressing the jog button on the keypad.

Unfortunately, pressnig the jog button seems to do nothing, 00.0 is
displayed as frequency and the motor does not jog.

My main question, as of right now, is how can I establish the
condition of the power module. How can I find out if it is good or
bad?

i

Ignoramus11519 fired this volley in
:

My main question, as of right now, is how can I establish the
condition of the power module. How can I find out if it is good or
bad?

Schematics, Ig?

You can't do much without them, and worlds of good with them.

LLoyd

On 2012-09-24, Ignoramus11519 wrote:
On 2012-09-24, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11296 wrote:


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

[ ... ]

If it has a standard 3-phase motor for the spindle, then it may be
easier to replace the whole VFD than mess with repairs. Most likely

[ ... ]

I spent a while on my knees today in front of that VFD.

It is a Yaskawa G3 branded Saftronics.

Supposedly, even with the drive wired for remote operation, I could
make the motor jog by pressing the jog button on the keypad.

Unfortunately, pressnig the jog button seems to do nothing, 00.0 is
displayed as frequency and the motor does not jog.

Absence of the brake resistor should not prevent a jog (or a
normal forward or reverse operation), just make it slower to get down to
a stop, so the jog would likely overshoot the target position.

This is the spindle motor, is it not?

My main question, as of right now, is how can I establish the
condition of the power module. How can I find out if it is good or
bad?

Can you identify which leads feed the motor?

What horsepower range does the motor have?

Do you have a spare VFD somewhere within perhaps half that
horsepower range?

If so, you should be able to re-connect the motor to the spare
VFD and test it by spinning the motor up.

If it doesn't -- consider the motor winding to be a likely
problem. Measure resistance between all three lead pairs. If any one
is different from any other (other than a few percent), it is the motor.
An open or a shorted winding. (But the VFD should display an error
message in the case of a short, and it should show a virtual speed in
the case of an open -- at least until the current in the one remaining
path is enough to force an error message.

If it does spin the motor up -- then back to the original VFD.
Is it possible that you need some other signal to enable the operation?
Perhaps an axis limit switch is enabled, blocking operation?

And there are lots of options to most VFDs. Perhaps one has
been set to inhibit jog operation?

Back to the brake resistor. Have you pulled it and measured its
resistance? If it is shorted, it will probably prevent motor operation
totally -- unless it is disconnected.

The other option is the failed brake switch resistor.

Or perhaps something got into the logic and fried it, but if
that were the case, it would probably not even be able to display the
0.00

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:30:39 -0500, Ignoramus11519
wrote:

On 2012-09-24, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11296 wrote:


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

i
If it has a standard 3-phase motor for the spindle, then it may be
easier to replace the whole VFD than mess with repairs. Most likely
if the brake resistor smoked, the power module that controls the
brake has blown. If it has a separate transistor for that, it is
repairable. if it is an all-in-one power module, it does not make
sense to repair it, as your cost on a new module could be greater than
for a whole surplus VFD.

I spent a while on my knees today in front of that VFD.

It is a Yaskawa G3 branded Saftronics.

Supposedly, even with the drive wired for remote operation, I could
make the motor jog by pressing the jog button on the keypad.

Unfortunately, pressnig the jog button seems to do nothing, 00.0 is
displayed as frequency and the motor does not jog.

My main question, as of right now, is how can I establish the
condition of the power module. How can I find out if it is good or
bad?

i
First thing you have to do..it go into Local mode. Once you are in
Local mode..hitting run forward or run reverse should run it at the
last programmed speed

Download the programming manual and see if it will actually run
manually.

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

On 25 Sep 2012 00:27:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-09-24, Ignoramus11519 wrote:
On 2012-09-24, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11296 wrote:


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

[ ... ]

If it has a standard 3-phase motor for the spindle, then it may be
easier to replace the whole VFD than mess with repairs. Most likely

[ ... ]

I spent a while on my knees today in front of that VFD.

It is a Yaskawa G3 branded Saftronics.

Supposedly, even with the drive wired for remote operation, I could
make the motor jog by pressing the jog button on the keypad.

Unfortunately, pressnig the jog button seems to do nothing, 00.0 is
displayed as frequency and the motor does not jog.

Absence of the brake resistor should not prevent a jog (or a
normal forward or reverse operation), just make it slower to get down to
a stop, so the jog would likely overshoot the target position.

This is the spindle motor, is it not?

My main question, as of right now, is how can I establish the
condition of the power module. How can I find out if it is good or
bad?

Can you identify which leads feed the motor?

What horsepower range does the motor have?

Do you have a spare VFD somewhere within perhaps half that
horsepower range?

If so, you should be able to re-connect the motor to the spare
VFD and test it by spinning the motor up.

If it doesn't -- consider the motor winding to be a likely
problem. Measure resistance between all three lead pairs. If any one
is different from any other (other than a few percent), it is the motor.
An open or a shorted winding. (But the VFD should display an error
message in the case of a short, and it should show a virtual speed in
the case of an open -- at least until the current in the one remaining
path is enough to force an error message.

If it does spin the motor up -- then back to the original VFD.
Is it possible that you need some other signal to enable the operation?
Perhaps an axis limit switch is enabled, blocking operation?

And there are lots of options to most VFDs. Perhaps one has
been set to inhibit jog operation?

Back to the brake resistor. Have you pulled it and measured its
resistance? If it is shorted, it will probably prevent motor operation
totally -- unless it is disconnected.

The other option is the failed brake switch resistor.

Or perhaps something got into the logic and fried it, but if
that were the case, it would probably not even be able to display the
0.00

Good Luck,
DoN.


Correct. It should show an error code upon start up.

VFDs are pretty sharp....

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

On 2012-09-25, Gunner wrote:
On 25 Sep 2012 00:27:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-09-24, Ignoramus11519 wrote:
On 2012-09-24, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11296 wrote:


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

[ ... ]

If it has a standard 3-phase motor for the spindle, then it may be
easier to replace the whole VFD than mess with repairs. Most likely

[ ... ]

I spent a while on my knees today in front of that VFD.

It is a Yaskawa G3 branded Saftronics.

Supposedly, even with the drive wired for remote operation, I could
make the motor jog by pressing the jog button on the keypad.

Unfortunately, pressnig the jog button seems to do nothing, 00.0 is
displayed as frequency and the motor does not jog.

Absence of the brake resistor should not prevent a jog (or a
normal forward or reverse operation), just make it slower to get down to
a stop, so the jog would likely overshoot the target position.

This is the spindle motor, is it not?

My main question, as of right now, is how can I establish the
condition of the power module. How can I find out if it is good or
bad?

Can you identify which leads feed the motor?

What horsepower range does the motor have?

Do you have a spare VFD somewhere within perhaps half that
horsepower range?

If so, you should be able to re-connect the motor to the spare
VFD and test it by spinning the motor up.

If it doesn't -- consider the motor winding to be a likely
problem. Measure resistance between all three lead pairs. If any one
is different from any other (other than a few percent), it is the motor.
An open or a shorted winding. (But the VFD should display an error
message in the case of a short, and it should show a virtual speed in
the case of an open -- at least until the current in the one remaining
path is enough to force an error message.

If it does spin the motor up -- then back to the original VFD.
Is it possible that you need some other signal to enable the operation?
Perhaps an axis limit switch is enabled, blocking operation?

And there are lots of options to most VFDs. Perhaps one has
been set to inhibit jog operation?

Back to the brake resistor. Have you pulled it and measured its
resistance? If it is shorted, it will probably prevent motor operation
totally -- unless it is disconnected.

The other option is the failed brake switch resistor.

Or perhaps something got into the logic and fried it, but if
that were the case, it would probably not even be able to display the
0.00

Good Luck,
DoN.


Correct. It should show an error code upon start up.

VFDs are pretty sharp....

Gunner


I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.

i

Ignoramus11519 wrote:



Supposedly, even with the drive wired for remote operation, I could
make the motor jog by pressing the jog button on the keypad.

Unfortunately, pressnig the jog button seems to do nothing, 00.0 is
displayed as frequency and the motor does not jog.

My main question, as of right now, is how can I establish the
condition of the power module. How can I find out if it is good or
bad?
The braking resistors typically have some kind of overtemp
sensor on them that is wired to disable the VFD or maybe
e-stop the whole machine. You can ohmmeter the resistors
(with the machine completely disconnected from the mains)
and should see something like 10 - 40 Ohms for a 230 V machine.

OK, so apparently the VFD powers on, as you get a display.
The keypad functions may not work correctly when in remote
control mode, such as the jog button may be overridden by
a zero speed analog voltage. Too many variables for me to
offer much more help.

Jon

Ignoramus11519 wrote:




I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.

Does it clunk when power is applied? Most mid-size VFDs
have a soft-start feature to save the rectifiers and capacitors
from the power-on surge. They charge the cap bank with a resistor
and then shunt out the resistor with a contactor. Is there a
neon light in there to indicate the cap bank is charged?
You can often see this through a grille on the side of the
unit or when the cover over the terminals is off. There is usually
a warning label that says something like "do not touch wire terminals
when this light is lit". Small VFDs often operate the logic supply
from the main cap bank with a switching supply. Some larger and
older VFDs have a separate transformer and power supply for the logic,
and may have a fuse in the main power supply.

Jon

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:38:03 -0500, Ignoramus11519
wrote:

On 2012-09-25, Gunner wrote:
On 25 Sep 2012 00:27:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-09-24, Ignoramus11519 wrote:
On 2012-09-24, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11296 wrote:


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmati...lling-Machine/

It powers up, the brake resistors are burned.

[ ... ]

If it has a standard 3-phase motor for the spindle, then it may be
easier to replace the whole VFD than mess with repairs. Most likely

[ ... ]

I spent a while on my knees today in front of that VFD.

It is a Yaskawa G3 branded Saftronics.

Supposedly, even with the drive wired for remote operation, I could
make the motor jog by pressing the jog button on the keypad.

Unfortunately, pressnig the jog button seems to do nothing, 00.0 is
displayed as frequency and the motor does not jog.

Absence of the brake resistor should not prevent a jog (or a
normal forward or reverse operation), just make it slower to get down to
a stop, so the jog would likely overshoot the target position.

This is the spindle motor, is it not?

My main question, as of right now, is how can I establish the
condition of the power module. How can I find out if it is good or
bad?

Can you identify which leads feed the motor?

What horsepower range does the motor have?

Do you have a spare VFD somewhere within perhaps half that
horsepower range?

If so, you should be able to re-connect the motor to the spare
VFD and test it by spinning the motor up.

If it doesn't -- consider the motor winding to be a likely
problem. Measure resistance between all three lead pairs. If any one
is different from any other (other than a few percent), it is the motor.
An open or a shorted winding. (But the VFD should display an error
message in the case of a short, and it should show a virtual speed in
the case of an open -- at least until the current in the one remaining
path is enough to force an error message.

If it does spin the motor up -- then back to the original VFD.
Is it possible that you need some other signal to enable the operation?
Perhaps an axis limit switch is enabled, blocking operation?

And there are lots of options to most VFDs. Perhaps one has
been set to inhibit jog operation?

Back to the brake resistor. Have you pulled it and measured its
resistance? If it is shorted, it will probably prevent motor operation
totally -- unless it is disconnected.

The other option is the failed brake switch resistor.

Or perhaps something got into the logic and fried it, but if
that were the case, it would probably not even be able to display the
0.00

Good Luck,
DoN.


Correct. It should show an error code upon start up.

VFDs are pretty sharp....

Gunner


I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.

i
Then why do you think the braking resistor is blown? Most...most VFDs
will diagnose that as well during startup.

Not all..but most.

And keep in mind..a braking resistor will not generally be involved in
starting...only in serious speed changes and stopping

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Gunner wrote:

Ignoramus wrote:

I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.

i
Then why do you think the braking resistor is blown? Most...most VFDs
will diagnose that as well during startup.

Not all..but most.

And keep in mind..a braking resistor will not generally be involved in
starting...only in serious speed changes and stopping


Would there be a market for repairing those small VFDs?

On 2012-09-25, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Ignoramus wrote:

I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.

i
Then why do you think the braking resistor is blown? Most...most VFDs
will diagnose that as well during startup.

Not all..but most.

And keep in mind..a braking resistor will not generally be involved in
starting...only in serious speed changes and stopping


Would there be a market for repairing those small VFDs?

There are quite a few repair outfits. I am friends with one.

i

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:37:32 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

Ignoramus wrote:

I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.

i
Then why do you think the braking resistor is blown? Most...most VFDs
will diagnose that as well during startup.

Not all..but most.

And keep in mind..a braking resistor will not generally be involved in
starting...only in serious speed changes and stopping


Would there be a market for repairing those small VFDs?


There are a number of companies that do just that. Get set up..and
you will have my work as well.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:37:32 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

Ignoramus wrote:

I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.

i
Then why do you think the braking resistor is blown? Most...most VFDs
will diagnose that as well during startup.

Not all..but most.

And keep in mind..a braking resistor will not generally be involved in
starting...only in serious speed changes and stopping


Would there be a market for repairing those small VFDs?

There are a number of companies that do just that. Get set up..and
you will have my work as well.


Thanks. I'm trying to get the small shop finished, then I'll start
haunting the local industrial scrapyard for damaged items to strip for
parts. Some is sitting outside, full of servo motors & electronics.

Ignoramus11519 wrote:




I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.
Oh, one thing I meant to mention. The braking resistors may
just LOOK cooked, but still be quite fine. With rapid start/stop
or rigid tapping, they will get quite hot in normal operation.

Jon

On 2012-09-25, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Gunner wrote:

[ ... ]

There are a number of companies that do just that. Get set up..and
you will have my work as well.


Thanks. I'm trying to get the small shop finished, then I'll start
haunting the local industrial scrapyard for damaged items to strip for
parts. Some is sitting outside, full of servo motors & electronics.

Hmm ... I've been looking for a particular DC servo motor, by
SEM (Small Electric Motors) in Japan. It is a long skinny one.

If you have any which match this approximate description, let me
know (fix my e-mail as shown in my .sig below) and I'll get you the full
details from the data plate. It should have four brush caps at 90
degrees, and (ideally) a MS series connector on one end of a box) with I
think about ten pins. Of those, two are the current into it, two are
the voltage from the feedback tach, two may be (if fitted) an
over-temperature sensor. Two more may be (again, if fitted) a built-in
brake. And on the end opposite the shaft, there should be a housing
with an encoder with a separate cable bringing that out. (Mine have
Heidrahan encoders, others may be different. I'll probably replace all
the encoders anyway.

One of the three motors which I have has a bad output shaft end
bearing, and given the stories of how easy it is to degauss the
permanent magnets, I would rather have a spare on hand *before* I take
it apart.

The project is a bit on hold. The BiJur oiler appears to have
started a fire, and the shop is a world of smoke soot at present.
Little damage to the mill, except the BiJur oiler, its reservoir, and
the approximately one liter of Vactra No. 2 are gone. (Well ... the
metal parts are still there, and I'm waiting for the insurance
investigator to come tomorrow before I pull it off the side of the
machine and see what is what about what is left.) I still find it
amazing that a little 2 or 3 Watt clock motor could light the Vactra No.
2, but we had a spectacular blaze there for a while -- and *very* hot.
I'm still finding things and sprizing them with WD-40 and rubbing off
the rust which is starting. Later, I'll find my remaining stock of
Vactra No. 2 and rub them down with a proper oil which should stay in
place.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 26 Sep 2012 04:12:16 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

snip
The project is a bit on hold. The BiJur oiler appears to have
started a fire, and the shop is a world of smoke soot at present.
Little damage to the mill, except the BiJur oiler, its reservoir, and
the approximately one liter of Vactra No. 2 are gone. (Well ... the
metal parts are still there, and I'm waiting for the insurance
investigator to come tomorrow before I pull it off the side of the
machine and see what is what about what is left.) I still find it
amazing that a little 2 or 3 Watt clock motor could light the Vactra No.
2, but we had a spectacular blaze there for a while -- and *very* hot.
I'm still finding things and sprizing them with WD-40 and rubbing off
the rust which is starting. Later, I'll find my remaining stock of
Vactra No. 2 and rub them down with a proper oil which should stay in
place.

Thanks,
DoN.

Damn, that sucks. Glad the damage is relatively contained and hope it
is minimal and easily repaired.

Good luck.

Pete Keillor

On 2012-09-26, Pete Keillor wrote:
On 26 Sep 2012 04:12:16 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

snip
The project is a bit on hold. The BiJur oiler appears to have
started a fire, and the shop is a world of smoke soot at present.
Little damage to the mill, except the BiJur oiler, its reservoir, and
the approximately one liter of Vactra No. 2 are gone. (Well ... the

[ ... ]

Damn, that sucks. Glad the damage is relatively contained and hope it
is minimal and easily repaired.

Good luck.

Thanks!

I still wonder how it started the fire.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-25, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Gunner wrote:

[ ... ]

There are a number of companies that do just that. Get set up..and
you will have my work as well.


Thanks. I'm trying to get the small shop finished, then I'll start
haunting the local industrial scrapyard for damaged items to strip for
parts. Some is sitting outside, full of servo motors & electronics.

Hmm ... I've been looking for a particular DC servo motor, by
SEM (Small Electric Motors) in Japan. It is a long skinny one.

If you have any which match this approximate description, let me
know (fix my e-mail as shown in my .sig below) and I'll get you the full
details from the data plate. It should have four brush caps at 90
degrees, and (ideally) a MS series connector on one end of a box) with I
think about ten pins. Of those, two are the current into it, two are
the voltage from the feedback tach, two may be (if fitted) an
over-temperature sensor. Two more may be (again, if fitted) a built-in
brake. And on the end opposite the shaft, there should be a housing
with an encoder with a separate cable bringing that out. (Mine have
Heidrahan encoders, others may be different. I'll probably replace all
the encoders anyway.


I don't, but I'll see what I can dig up around here. They have about
an acre under roof of used & surplus industrial items.


One of the three motors which I have has a bad output shaft end
bearing, and given the stories of how easy it is to degauss the
permanent magnets, I would rather have a spare on hand *before* I take
it apart.

Definitely. The factory uses a special 'keeper' to remove & inset
the armature.


The project is a bit on hold. The BiJur oiler appears to have
started a fire, and the shop is a world of smoke soot at present.
Little damage to the mill, except the BiJur oiler, its reservoir, and
the approximately one liter of Vactra No. 2 are gone. (Well ... the
metal parts are still there, and I'm waiting for the insurance
investigator to come tomorrow before I pull it off the side of the
machine and see what is what about what is left.) I still find it
amazing that a little 2 or 3 Watt clock motor could light the Vactra No.
2, but we had a spectacular blaze there for a while -- and *very* hot.


The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.


I'm still finding things and sprizing them with WD-40 and rubbing off
the rust which is starting. Later, I'll find my remaining stock of
Vactra No. 2 and rub them down with a proper oil which should stay in
place.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Michael A. Terrell wrote:



The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.
Yup, I agree. An impedance-limited motor can't get hot enough to
ignite oil. But, if there was internal or external arcing, that could do
it. I'm still a little surprised internal arcing could do it, as these
motors are usually pretty well closed up. Either it arced internally
for quite a while, or until an outside wire burned off and dropped into
the usual oily mess on such pumps. It really seems a properly-sized
fuse should have cut this off before it got to that stage. Might be
something to install while rebuilding.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:


The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.

Yup, I agree. An impedance-limited motor can't get hot enough to
ignite oil. But, if there was internal or external arcing, that could do
it. I'm still a little surprised internal arcing could do it, as these
motors are usually pretty well closed up. Either it arced internally
for quite a while, or until an outside wire burned off and dropped into
the usual oily mess on such pumps. It really seems a properly-sized
fuse should have cut this off before it got to that stage. Might be
something to install while rebuilding.


Some have vents to cool the coils, or open windings. Older motors
were often built with a brass or aluminum deep drawn cover that was
friction fit to the steel body, and could work loose. Some would pull
off with your fingers, and had enough gap to let a flame out if it was
in the right spot. Since the motors were designed for another use, the
thought of starting a fire likely wasn't considered. I once found a
particle board speaker cabinet that was set on fire when the wirewound
two watt 20 ohm pot caught fire. Someone had removed the line
transformer to get more volume, rather than find a short in the building
wiring. When I found the bad wire, the speaker could be heard all over
a 40,000 Sq foot room, for about a second. It had shorted to the
ceiling grid, which was grounded to the steel building and support
posts.

On 2012-09-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

Thanks. I'm trying to get the small shop finished, then I'll start
haunting the local industrial scrapyard for damaged items to strip for
parts. Some is sitting outside, full of servo motors & electronics.

Hmm ... I've been looking for a particular DC servo motor, by
SEM (Small Electric Motors) in Japan. It is a long skinny one.

If you have any which match this approximate description, let me
know (fix my e-mail as shown in my .sig below) and I'll get you the full
details from the data plate. It should have four brush caps at 90
degrees, and (ideally) a MS series connector on one end of a box) with I
think about ten pins. Of those, two are the current into it, two are
the voltage from the feedback tach, two may be (if fitted) an
over-temperature sensor. Two more may be (again, if fitted) a built-in
brake. And on the end opposite the shaft, there should be a housing
with an encoder with a separate cable bringing that out. (Mine have
Heidrahan encoders, others may be different. I'll probably replace all
the encoders anyway.


I don't, but I'll see what I can dig up around here. They have about
an acre under roof of used & surplus industrial items.

O.K. I'll post the details off two of the data plates -- taken
down earlier to send to Gunner. It is still too dark down there (all the
lamps are covered with black soot, and the walls are too, so they won't
reflect much of what gets out of the lamps. :-)

================================================== ====================
SEM Inc (Small Electric Motors, Incorporated, Japan)
Type: MY 30M{4-14} (Part in '{}' is stamped in, rest is etched
).
SN: KB2705
Cont Stall Torque: 3 NM TERV
Max RPM: 4000
Volts: 96
Pulse Amps: 75
Tacho: 9.6 V/1000 RPM
Insul: F
C84-4473
Permanent Magnet D.C. Servo Motor
================================================== ====================
SEM Inc (Small Electric Motors, Incorporated, Japan)
Type: MT 30M4-24
Cont Stall Torque: 3 NM TERV
Max RPM: 4000
Volts 96
Pulse Amps: 75
Tacho: 9.5 V/1000 RPM
Insul: F
B-T 1551239 M87-72083
================================================== ====================

One of the three motors which I have has a bad output shaft end
bearing, and given the stories of how easy it is to degauss the
permanent magnets, I would rather have a spare on hand *before* I take
it apart.

Definitely. The factory uses a special 'keeper' to remove & inset
the armature.

Exactly. And with the shop out of service, I can't even attempt
to make one by guessing at the needed dimensions.

It *might* be that I can get to the bearing by just taking the
endplate off the motor, without removing the armature. But I'll at
least have to pull the brushes just to be sure. :-) That, too is on
hold.

[ ... BiJur automatic lubricator ... ]

The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.

That could do it. Likely there was a bit of oil leaked out of
somewhere within range of that, and it lit off more, which then lit
something nearby, which then melted the reservoir and started the *real*
fire.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-09-26, Jon Elson wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:



The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.

Yup, I agree. An impedance-limited motor can't get hot enough to
ignite oil. But, if there was internal or external arcing, that could do
it. I'm still a little surprised internal arcing could do it, as these
motors are usually pretty well closed up. Either it arced internally
for quite a while, or until an outside wire burned off and dropped into
the usual oily mess on such pumps.

That last is rather likely. The wires from the motor were
something like 26 ga or 28 ga -- connected to 16 ga to go back into the
rack of electronics.

It really seems a properly-sized
fuse should have cut this off before it got to that stage. Might be
something to install while rebuilding.

I had a fuse in there -- but it certainly was not
properly-sized. It was the fuse in the component fuse holder from a
terminal block stack from the old machine. It turns out to have been
rated at 5A (still normally reasonable -- and I don't remember ever
seeing an electric clock with a fuse built in. :-)

But the fuse which was in there was quite visibly blown. (3AG
size, FWIW.)

Maybe a 1/2 A fuse would have been adequate and easier to find.
a 1/10 A would be even more reasonable.

I did a web search for a link between BiJur oilers and fires,
and found nothing. By now, you can probably find this thread, the way
the net works. :-)

Thanks,
DoN.

--
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Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-09-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:


The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.

Yup, I agree. An impedance-limited motor can't get hot enough to
ignite oil. But, if there was internal or external arcing, that could do
it. I'm still a little surprised internal arcing could do it, as these
motors are usually pretty well closed up. Either it arced internally
for quite a while, or until an outside wire burned off and dropped into
the usual oily mess on such pumps. It really seems a properly-sized
fuse should have cut this off before it got to that stage. Might be
something to install while rebuilding.


Some have vents to cool the coils, or open windings. Older motors
were often built with a brass or aluminum deep drawn cover that was
friction fit to the steel body, and could work loose. Some would pull
off with your fingers, and had enough gap to let a flame out if it was
in the right spot.

This is one of the teardrop shaped ones which contain the gear
train. The usual deep drawn cover was over the actual motor part, the
teardrop likely also had some enclosed lube, and I remember others of
the type had the whole gear train solder sealed into the teardrop, but
the motor winding was a different matter.

This is based on drawings downloaded. I'll have a better idea
when I get a chance to pull it out and take it apart outdoors. (If
there is enough left to judge from. :-)

Since the motors were designed for another use, the
thought of starting a fire likely wasn't considered. I once found a
particle board speaker cabinet that was set on fire when the wirewound
two watt 20 ohm pot caught fire. Someone had removed the line
transformer to get more volume, rather than find a short in the building
wiring. When I found the bad wire, the speaker could be heard all over
a 40,000 Sq foot room, for about a second. It had shorted to the
ceiling grid, which was grounded to the steel building and support
posts.

Ouch! I presume that the cone was tatters, as well as the voice
coil being toast. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:


The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.

Yup, I agree. An impedance-limited motor can't get hot enough to
ignite oil. But, if there was internal or external arcing, that could do
it. I'm still a little surprised internal arcing could do it, as these
motors are usually pretty well closed up. Either it arced internally
for quite a while, or until an outside wire burned off and dropped into
the usual oily mess on such pumps. It really seems a properly-sized
fuse should have cut this off before it got to that stage. Might be
something to install while rebuilding.


Some have vents to cool the coils, or open windings. Older motors
were often built with a brass or aluminum deep drawn cover that was
friction fit to the steel body, and could work loose. Some would pull
off with your fingers, and had enough gap to let a flame out if it was
in the right spot.

This is one of the teardrop shaped ones which contain the gear
train. The usual deep drawn cover was over the actual motor part, the
teardrop likely also had some enclosed lube, and I remember others of
the type had the whole gear train solder sealed into the teardrop, but
the motor winding was a different matter.

This is based on drawings downloaded. I'll have a better idea
when I get a chance to pull it out and take it apart outdoors. (If
there is enough left to judge from. :-)


Post some photos before its removed, and to show the damage after its
removed?


Since the motors were designed for another use, the
thought of starting a fire likely wasn't considered. I once found a
particle board speaker cabinet that was set on fire when the wirewound
two watt 20 ohm pot caught fire. Someone had removed the line
transformer to get more volume, rather than find a short in the building
wiring. When I found the bad wire, the speaker could be heard all over
a 40,000 Sq foot room, for about a second. It had shorted to the
ceiling grid, which was grounded to the steel building and support
posts.

Ouch! I presume that the cone was tatters, as well as the voice
coil being toast. :-)


Actually, the speaker survived. The entire control was burnt,
though. Just the metal parts & ash. It was still in use when I was
laid off, several years later.

The Merlin phone system, was another story. It was non Y2K
compliant, and caught fire a week before it was to be replaced. It set
the equipment room on fire, and smoke damaged 40,000 Sq. feet of office,
warehouse & stockrooms. You would still get a whiff of smoke, two years
later. We were working the next day in production, with the doors
propped open to be able to breath. That was a Saturday. Monday morning
Sprint was there to run temporary lines to the main office & reception
for single line phones, and started replacing all the 25 pair cable with
yellow cat five to each new phone.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

I had a fuse in there -- but it certainly was not
properly-sized. It was the fuse in the component fuse holder from a
terminal block stack from the old machine. It turns out to have been
rated at 5A (still normally reasonable -- and I don't remember ever
seeing an electric clock with a fuse built in. :-)

But the fuse which was in there was quite visibly blown. (3AG
size, FWIW.)

Maybe a 1/2 A fuse would have been adequate and easier to find.
a 1/10 A would be even more reasonable.


How about a thermal fuse, against the motor's coil?

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

Thanks. I'm trying to get the small shop finished, then I'll start
haunting the local industrial scrapyard for damaged items to strip for
parts. Some is sitting outside, full of servo motors & electronics.

Hmm ... I've been looking for a particular DC servo motor, by
SEM (Small Electric Motors) in Japan. It is a long skinny one.

If you have any which match this approximate description, let me
know (fix my e-mail as shown in my .sig below) and I'll get you the full
details from the data plate. It should have four brush caps at 90
degrees, and (ideally) a MS series connector on one end of a box) with I
think about ten pins. Of those, two are the current into it, two are
the voltage from the feedback tach, two may be (if fitted) an
over-temperature sensor. Two more may be (again, if fitted) a built-in
brake. And on the end opposite the shaft, there should be a housing
with an encoder with a separate cable bringing that out. (Mine have
Heidrahan encoders, others may be different. I'll probably replace all
the encoders anyway.


I don't, but I'll see what I can dig up around here. They have about
an acre under roof of used & surplus industrial items.

O.K. I'll post the details off two of the data plates -- taken
down earlier to send to Gunner. It is still too dark down there (all the
lamps are covered with black soot, and the walls are too, so they won't
reflect much of what gets out of the lamps. :-)

================================================== ====================
SEM Inc (Small Electric Motors, Incorporated, Japan)
Type: MY 30M{4-14} (Part in '{}' is stamped in, rest is etched
).
SN: KB2705
Cont Stall Torque: 3 NM TERV
Max RPM: 4000
Volts: 96
Pulse Amps: 75
Tacho: 9.6 V/1000 RPM
Insul: F
C84-4473
Permanent Magnet D.C. Servo Motor
================================================== ====================
SEM Inc (Small Electric Motors, Incorporated, Japan)
Type: MT 30M4-24
Cont Stall Torque: 3 NM TERV
Max RPM: 4000
Volts 96
Pulse Amps: 75
Tacho: 9.5 V/1000 RPM
Insul: F
B-T 1551239 M87-72083
================================================== ====================


I'll see what I can find, next time I'm there.


One of the three motors which I have has a bad output shaft end
bearing, and given the stories of how easy it is to degauss the
permanent magnets, I would rather have a spare on hand *before* I take
it apart.

Definitely. The factory uses a special 'keeper' to remove & inset
the armature.

Exactly. And with the shop out of service, I can't even attempt
to make one by guessing at the needed dimensions.

It *might* be that I can get to the bearing by just taking the
endplate off the motor, without removing the armature. But I'll at
least have to pull the brushes just to be sure. :-) That, too is on
hold.

[ ... BiJur automatic lubricator ... ]

The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.

That could do it. Likely there was a bit of oil leaked out of
somewhere within range of that, and it lit off more, which then lit
something nearby, which then melted the reservoir and started the *real*
fire.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-09-27, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:


The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.

Yup, I agree. An impedance-limited motor can't get hot enough to
ignite oil. But, if there was internal or external arcing, that could do
it. I'm still a little surprised internal arcing could do it, as these
motors are usually pretty well closed up. Either it arced internally
for quite a while, or until an outside wire burned off and dropped into
the usual oily mess on such pumps. It really seems a properly-sized
fuse should have cut this off before it got to that stage. Might be
something to install while rebuilding.


Some have vents to cool the coils, or open windings. Older motors
were often built with a brass or aluminum deep drawn cover that was
friction fit to the steel body, and could work loose. Some would pull
off with your fingers, and had enough gap to let a flame out if it was
in the right spot.

This is one of the teardrop shaped ones which contain the gear
train. The usual deep drawn cover was over the actual motor part, the
teardrop likely also had some enclosed lube, and I remember others of
the type had the whole gear train solder sealed into the teardrop, but
the motor winding was a different matter.

This is based on drawings downloaded. I'll have a better idea
when I get a chance to pull it out and take it apart outdoors. (If
there is enough left to judge from. :-)


Post some photos before its removed, and to show the damage after its
removed?

Well ... I do have the following:

http://www.d-and-d.com/PROJECTS/BRIDGEPORT/DISASTER/index.html

in which the first photo (and some others) shows the pump in all its
sooty glory. The motor is below the square box below the cylinder, and
above the deck. What is hanging down is the level sensing float.

It all looks a lot darker than that, but I played with the gamma
to make some details visible. :-)

The other photos are going to wait until they haul the mill (and
all the other heavy tools) out of the shop prior to ripping out all the
wallboard and cleaning everything else.

I really don't want to subject my asthma to any more time in that
smokey environment.

Since the motors were designed for another use, the
thought of starting a fire likely wasn't considered. I once found a
particle board speaker cabinet that was set on fire when the wirewound
two watt 20 ohm pot caught fire. Someone had removed the line
transformer to get more volume, rather than find a short in the building
wiring. When I found the bad wire, the speaker could be heard all over
a 40,000 Sq foot room, for about a second. It had shorted to the
ceiling grid, which was grounded to the steel building and support
posts.

Ouch! I presume that the cone was tatters, as well as the voice
coil being toast. :-)


Actually, the speaker survived.

Amazing.

The entire control was burnt,
though. Just the metal parts & ash. It was still in use when I was
laid off, several years later.

So -- the control acted as a fuse to protect the speaker. :-)

The Merlin phone system, was another story. It was non Y2K
compliant, and caught fire a week before it was to be replaced. It set
the equipment room on fire, and smoke damaged 40,000 Sq. feet of office,
warehouse & stockrooms. You would still get a whiff of smoke, two years
later. We were working the next day in production, with the doors
propped open to be able to breath.

No asthma, I hope?

That was a Saturday. Monday morning
Sprint was there to run temporary lines to the main office & reception
for single line phones, and started replacing all the 25 pair cable with
yellow cat five to each new phone.

A good excuse for an upgrade (aside from the Y2K problem). :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.


--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-09-27, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

I had a fuse in there -- but it certainly was not
properly-sized. It was the fuse in the component fuse holder from a
terminal block stack from the old machine. It turns out to have been
rated at 5A (still normally reasonable -- and I don't remember ever
seeing an electric clock with a fuse built in. :-)

But the fuse which was in there was quite visibly blown. (3AG
size, FWIW.)

Maybe a 1/2 A fuse would have been adequate and easier to find.
a 1/10 A would be even more reasonable.


How about a thermal fuse, against the motor's coil?

Hmm ... not sure that it would survive the oil leakage there. :-)

And the coil is under the aluminum rotor, which is under the
push-on cover (if it is like I remember them) so the fuse would not be
where it could get a real feel for the heat buildup.

BTW The 5A fuse had plenty of excuse to blow, because the fire
burned the wires in the spiral metal plus oilproof plastic cable
(and burned the plastic off the cable), so it is likely to have
serious shorts inside the cable, too.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-09-27, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

Hmm ... I've been looking for a particular DC servo motor, by
SEM (Small Electric Motors) in Japan. It is a long skinny one.

If you have any which match this approximate description, let me
know (fix my e-mail as shown in my .sig below) and I'll get you the full

[ ... ]

I don't, but I'll see what I can dig up around here. They have about
an acre under roof of used & surplus industrial items.

O.K. I'll post the details off two of the data plates -- taken
down earlier to send to Gunner. It is still too dark down there (all the
lamps are covered with black soot, and the walls are too, so they won't
reflect much of what gets out of the lamps. :-)

================================================== ====================
SEM Inc (Small Electric Motors, Incorporated, Japan)
Type: MY 30M{4-14} (Part in '{}' is stamped in, rest is etched
).
SN: KB2705
Cont Stall Torque: 3 NM TERV
Max RPM: 4000
Volts: 96
Pulse Amps: 75
Tacho: 9.6 V/1000 RPM
Insul: F
C84-4473
Permanent Magnet D.C. Servo Motor
================================================== ====================
SEM Inc (Small Electric Motors, Incorporated, Japan)
Type: MT 30M4-24
Cont Stall Torque: 3 NM TERV
Max RPM: 4000
Volts 96
Pulse Amps: 75
Tacho: 9.5 V/1000 RPM
Insul: F
B-T 1551239 M87-72083
================================================== ====================


I'll see what I can find, next time I'm there.

Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-27, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:


The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.

Yup, I agree. An impedance-limited motor can't get hot enough to
ignite oil. But, if there was internal or external arcing, that could do
it. I'm still a little surprised internal arcing could do it, as these
motors are usually pretty well closed up. Either it arced internally
for quite a while, or until an outside wire burned off and dropped into
the usual oily mess on such pumps. It really seems a properly-sized
fuse should have cut this off before it got to that stage. Might be
something to install while rebuilding.


Some have vents to cool the coils, or open windings. Older motors
were often built with a brass or aluminum deep drawn cover that was
friction fit to the steel body, and could work loose. Some would pull
off with your fingers, and had enough gap to let a flame out if it was
in the right spot.

This is one of the teardrop shaped ones which contain the gear
train. The usual deep drawn cover was over the actual motor part, the
teardrop likely also had some enclosed lube, and I remember others of
the type had the whole gear train solder sealed into the teardrop, but
the motor winding was a different matter.

This is based on drawings downloaded. I'll have a better idea
when I get a chance to pull it out and take it apart outdoors. (If
there is enough left to judge from. :-)


Post some photos before its removed, and to show the damage after its
removed?

Well ... I do have the following:

http://www.d-and-d.com/PROJECTS/BRIDGEPORT/DISASTER/index.html

in which the first photo (and some others) shows the pump in all its
sooty glory. The motor is below the square box below the cylinder, and
above the deck. What is hanging down is the level sensing float.

It all looks a lot darker than that, but I played with the gamma
to make some details visible. :-)

The other photos are going to wait until they haul the mill (and
all the other heavy tools) out of the shop prior to ripping out all the
wallboard and cleaning everything else.


I think I would replace it with a digital timer. A 555 timer,
followed by a 4040 or 4060 binary IC counter. Or a PIC or Atmel MPU.


I really don't want to subject my asthma to any more time in that
smokey environment.


I don't blame you.


Since the motors were designed for another use, the
thought of starting a fire likely wasn't considered. I once found a
particle board speaker cabinet that was set on fire when the wirewound
two watt 20 ohm pot caught fire. Someone had removed the line
transformer to get more volume, rather than find a short in the building
wiring. When I found the bad wire, the speaker could be heard all over
a 40,000 Sq foot room, for about a second. It had shorted to the
ceiling grid, which was grounded to the steel building and support
posts.

Ouch! I presume that the cone was tatters, as well as the voice
coil being toast. :-)


Actually, the speaker survived.

Amazing.

The entire control was burnt, though. Just the metal parts & ash.
It was still in use when I was laid off, several years later.

So -- the control acted as a fuse to protect the speaker. :-)


How else could they torture us with a noisy radio station?


The Merlin phone system, was another story. It was non Y2K
compliant, and caught fire a week before it was to be replaced. It set
the equipment room on fire, and smoke damaged 40,000 Sq. feet of office,
warehouse & stockrooms. You would still get a whiff of smoke, two years
later. We were working the next day in production, with the doors
propped open to be able to breath.

No asthma, I hope?


Not according to the VA, but I can barely breathe when it's hot &
humod. They did the test in a 65 degree room with dry 'breathng
gasses'. I almost passed out, leaving the hospital.


That was a Saturday. Monday morning Sprint was there to run
temporary lines to the main office & reception for single line phones,
and started replacing all the 25 pair cable with yellow cat five to
each new phone.

A good excuse for an upgrade (aside from the Y2K problem). :-)


We had ordered & paid for the new equipment before the fire.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-27, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-26, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

Hmm ... I've been looking for a particular DC servo motor, by
SEM (Small Electric Motors) in Japan. It is a long skinny one.

If you have any which match this approximate description, let me
know (fix my e-mail as shown in my .sig below) and I'll get you the full

[ ... ]

I don't, but I'll see what I can dig up around here. They have about
an acre under roof of used & surplus industrial items.

O.K. I'll post the details off two of the data plates -- taken
down earlier to send to Gunner. It is still too dark down there (all the
lamps are covered with black soot, and the walls are too, so they won't
reflect much of what gets out of the lamps. :-)

================================================== ====================
SEM Inc (Small Electric Motors, Incorporated, Japan)
Type: MY 30M{4-14} (Part in '{}' is stamped in, rest is etched
).
SN: KB2705
Cont Stall Torque: 3 NM TERV
Max RPM: 4000
Volts: 96
Pulse Amps: 75
Tacho: 9.6 V/1000 RPM
Insul: F
C84-4473
Permanent Magnet D.C. Servo Motor
================================================== ====================
SEM Inc (Small Electric Motors, Incorporated, Japan)
Type: MT 30M4-24
Cont Stall Torque: 3 NM TERV
Max RPM: 4000
Volts 96
Pulse Amps: 75
Tacho: 9.5 V/1000 RPM
Insul: F
B-T 1551239 M87-72083
================================================== ====================


I'll see what I can find, next time I'm there.

Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.


That sounds like three months or more of waiting.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 00:27:20 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:
Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.

That's truly a bummer, DoN. Condolences.


That sounds like three months or more of waiting.

I don't believe that Mother Nature will give him that much time before
starting to drop massive amounts of rain and snow on the equipment
outside. Let's hope it goes more quickly and salvageable equipment is
all back inside before then.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.

That's quite a mess, and that corrosive smoke really gets into
everything and will do a lot of damage if not cleaned promptly. Is the
insurance company being helpful?

"Pete C." wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.

That's quite a mess, and that corrosive smoke really gets into
everything and will do a lot of damage if not cleaned promptly. Is the
insurance company being helpful?

By the way, have you contacted the Bijur folks about it? I don't expect
it's under warranty with it's age, but I suspect they would be
interested in studying this seemingly unusual failure mode.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:56:49 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11519 wrote:

I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.
Oh, one thing I meant to mention. The braking resistors may
just LOOK cooked, but still be quite fine. With rapid start/stop
or rigid tapping, they will get quite hot in normal operation.

In the picture of the braking resistors,
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine-0014.jpg
it looks to me like the ceramic core of the lower-left resistor is
showing where wire ought to be. But sure, those resistors could
still be quite fine.

--
jiw

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 00:27:20 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:
Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.

That's truly a bummer, DoN. Condolences.

That sounds like three months or more of waiting.

I don't believe that Mother Nature will give him that much time before
starting to drop massive amounts of rain and snow on the equipment
outside. Let's hope it goes more quickly and salvageable equipment is
all back inside before then.


Me too, but I used to do some work for a fire restoration company,
and nothing ever finished in 30 days. The insurance companies micro
managed every job.