On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-27, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... speculation on fire starting mode snipped ... ]

Post some photos before its removed, and to show the damage after its
removed?

Well ... I do have the following:

http://www.d-and-d.com/PROJECTS/BRIDGEPORT/DISASTER/index.html

in which the first photo (and some others) shows the pump in all its
sooty glory. The motor is below the square box below the cylinder, and
above the deck. What is hanging down is the level sensing float.

It all looks a lot darker than that, but I played with the gamma
to make some details visible. :-)

The other photos are going to wait until they haul the mill (and
all the other heavy tools) out of the shop prior to ripping out all the
wallboard and cleaning everything else.


I think I would replace it with a digital timer. A 555 timer,
followed by a 4040 or 4060 binary IC counter. Or a PIC or Atmel MPU.

Hmm ... And a small geared DC motor running a pump to put out
the oil on demand? To maintain the same pressure, I probably would need
a spring-loaded piston and a sensor to say when the spring is fully
compressed, to provide the required pressure to match the metering
apertures (though which Vactra No. 2 doesn't exactly move quickly. :-)

I really don't want to subject my asthma to any more time in that
smokey environment.


I don't blame you.

[ ... ]

Actually, the speaker survived.

Amazing.

The entire control was burnt, though. Just the metal parts & ash.
It was still in use when I was laid off, several years later.

So -- the control acted as a fuse to protect the speaker. :-)


How else could they torture us with a noisy radio station?

:-)


The Merlin phone system, was another story. It was non Y2K
compliant, and caught fire a week before it was to be replaced. It set
the equipment room on fire, and smoke damaged 40,000 Sq. feet of office,
warehouse & stockrooms. You would still get a whiff of smoke, two years
later. We were working the next day in production, with the doors
propped open to be able to breath.

No asthma, I hope?


Not according to the VA, but I can barely breathe when it's hot &
humod. They did the test in a 65 degree room with dry 'breathng
gasses'. I almost passed out, leaving the hospital.

Was this before the fire experience or after? You could have
filled your lungs with smoke in that environment and reduced their
efficiency. (This is assuming that you don't/didn't smoke tobacco.
Since I started with Asthma as a little kid, I never took up smoking.)

Of course, the worst that I have experienced was when a raccoon
committed suicide on the HV power transformers on the evening of the
start of a long weekend in summer. The transformer was close to the
intake for the big air handlers. The smell of electrically-cooked
raccoon got pumped throughout the building, and then the current got
high enough to pop the mains fuse, so we lost *all* power. The building
stewed that way for three very hot days. It got hot enough inside that
the tiles in the halls curled up in many places, and many just totally
popped free.

We were sent home for a day, while they aired out the building
and picked up the loose tiles. I went in there for a short visit while
it was still contaminated and hot, and I *certainly* would not want to
work in that environment.

I'm not sure *how* they got rid of the smell.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-27, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... speculation on fire starting mode snipped ... ]

Post some photos before its removed, and to show the damage after its
removed?

Well ... I do have the following:

http://www.d-and-d.com/PROJECTS/BRIDGEPORT/DISASTER/index.html

in which the first photo (and some others) shows the pump in all its
sooty glory. The motor is below the square box below the cylinder, and
above the deck. What is hanging down is the level sensing float.

It all looks a lot darker than that, but I played with the gamma
to make some details visible. :-)

The other photos are going to wait until they haul the mill (and
all the other heavy tools) out of the shop prior to ripping out all the
wallboard and cleaning everything else.


I think I would replace it with a digital timer. A 555 timer,
followed by a 4040 or 4060 binary IC counter. Or a PIC or Atmel MPU.

Hmm ... And a small geared DC motor running a pump to put out
the oil on demand? To maintain the same pressure, I probably would need
a spring-loaded piston and a sensor to say when the spring is fully
compressed, to provide the required pressure to match the metering
apertures (though which Vactra No. 2 doesn't exactly move quickly. :-)


How accurate do you need the timer? A 32,768 Hz crystal, and four
4027 binary dividers would let you set whatever cycle time you want, and
another chip or two would let you set the run time. Drive a SSR, and
any AC powered pump. I have plenty of DIP switches, and probably
everything else except a spare SSR. It would be easy to program in
seconds (in binary), and easy to repair in the field. it would all fit
on a small protobooard and cost about $5 to $10 to build.


No asthma, I hope?


Not according to the VA, but I can barely breathe when it's hot &
humod. They did the test in a 65 degree room with dry 'breathng
gasses'. I almost passed out, leaving the hospital.

Was this before the fire experience or after? You could have
filled your lungs with smoke in that environment and reduced their
efficiency. (This is assuming that you don't/didn't smoke tobacco.
Since I started with Asthma as a little kid, I never took up smoking.)


The test was done several years after that fire, but it developed
when I was stationed in the sub zero, zero humidity in Alaska. i was
sent there, in spite of having had sever pneumonia as a teenager. That
was against regulations, but I was told, We can't do anything, now that
you're here.


Of course, the worst that I have experienced was when a raccoon
committed suicide on the HV power transformers on the evening of the
start of a long weekend in summer. The transformer was close to the
intake for the big air handlers. The smell of electrically-cooked
raccoon got pumped throughout the building, and then the current got
high enough to pop the mains fuse, so we lost *all* power. The building
stewed that way for three very hot days. It got hot enough inside that
the tiles in the halls curled up in many places, and many just totally
popped free.

We were sent home for a day, while they aired out the building
and picked up the loose tiles. I went in there for a short visit while
it was still contaminated and hot, and I *certainly* would not want to
work in that environment.

I'm not sure *how* they got rid of the smell.


At least it wasn't a lawyer. They would NEVER get rid of that smell.

There are commercial odor removers used by the fire restoration
trade. I used Odor Ban to clear the stench after a breaker box caught
fire. I sprayed a couple ounces of it into the damaged panel (with the
power off), and a few days later you could barely detect it.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 17:39:16 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:56:49 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11519 wrote:

I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.
Oh, one thing I meant to mention. The braking resistors may
just LOOK cooked, but still be quite fine. With rapid start/stop
or rigid tapping, they will get quite hot in normal operation.

In the picture of the braking resistors,
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine-0014.jpg
it looks to me like the ceramic core of the lower-left resistor is
showing where wire ought to be. But sure, those resistors could
still be quite fine.

Fire, what fire? sigh


--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On 2012-09-28, Pete C. wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.

That's quite a mess, and that corrosive smoke really gets into
everything and will do a lot of damage if not cleaned promptly.

Agreed. There is a lot of limited access at present -- the shop
was too cluttered before this, and worse now. I've been concentrating on
at least washing things which I can reach down with WD-40 and rubbing it
as clean as possible. Some things are easier to let go and replace,
like the overarm for the Nichols horizontal mill -- which is just two or
so feet of 3" diameter CRS -- so if I can't get it sufficiently rust
free to allow the guide bearing to slide on it (and that bearing was on
the floor because I had needed clearance for a taller workpiece while
using an end mill) so it is pretty safe. The higher things were, the
worse they are. For example, a set of "Bug Boxes" -- covered
compartmented plastic trays for storing logic chips in DIP format) from
the top of a shelf are rather wilted. The chips should be good still,
but the plastic is not. (And, unfortunately, those "Bug Boxes" are no
longer made. :-(

Is the
insurance company being helpful?

Yes. They are even going to fly in a fellow who is an expert on
retrieval and rehabilitation of such equipment. I spent a while talking
to him on the phone, and (unlike the firemen who were calling the
Bridgeport a "drill press", and the adjustors, where I had to keep
explaining things, he knew what I was saying and what questions to ask.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-09-28, Pete C. wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.

That's quite a mess, and that corrosive smoke really gets into
everything and will do a lot of damage if not cleaned promptly. Is the
insurance company being helpful?

By the way, have you contacted the Bijur folks about it? I don't expect
it's under warranty with it's age, but I suspect they would be
interested in studying this seemingly unusual failure mode.

Not yet. I probably should do so. Once I get it out. (Maybe
even get a new one in exchange? :-)

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 00:27:20 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:
Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.

That's truly a bummer, DoN. Condolences.

That sounds like three months or more of waiting.

I don't believe that Mother Nature will give him that much time before
starting to drop massive amounts of rain and snow on the equipment
outside. Let's hope it goes more quickly and salvageable equipment is
all back inside before then.


Me too, but I used to do some work for a fire restoration company,
and nothing ever finished in 30 days. The insurance companies micro
managed every job.

They are planning on putting them on pallets and sheltering them
(with tarps, perhaps).

And we had quite a bit of rain last night and expect some more
tonight.

And as for time -- the initial estimate is for one and a half
months.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Me too, but I used to do some work for a fire restoration
company, and nothing ever finished in 30 days. The insurance
companies micro managed every job.

They are planning on putting them on pallets and sheltering them
(with tarps, perhaps).


I suggest they use large rolls of black plastic, then tarps. A
generous spray of engine cleaner will help keep them from rusting while
outside. It will also help you clean them up, when it's time to repair
& test them.

And we had quite a bit of rain last night and expect some more
tonight.

And as for time -- the initial estimate is for one and a half
months.

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]


I think I would replace it with a digital timer. A 555 timer,
followed by a 4040 or 4060 binary IC counter. Or a PIC or Atmel MPU.

Hmm ... And a small geared DC motor running a pump to put out
the oil on demand? To maintain the same pressure, I probably would need
a spring-loaded piston and a sensor to say when the spring is fully
compressed, to provide the required pressure to match the metering
apertures (though which Vactra No. 2 doesn't exactly move quickly. :-)


How accurate do you need the timer? A 32,768 Hz crystal, and four
4027 binary dividers would let you set whatever cycle time you want, and
another chip or two would let you set the run time. Drive a SSR, and
any AC powered pump. I have plenty of DIP switches, and probably
everything else except a spare SSR. It would be easy to program in
seconds (in binary), and easy to repair in the field. it would all fit
on a small protobooard and cost about $5 to $10 to build.

The electronics are simple -- and could likely be built with
some of the contents of my now rather wilted set of "Bug Boxes". They
were quite high in the shop (should have been moved to the recently
re-activated electronics shop in the cellar), where the really hot air
was. Likely the Intel-based IBM computer which was used to communicate
with the Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC was fried, and the LCD monitor a lost
cause too. Can't test anything until I get it all out of there. I
don't dare turn the breakers back on for most of the outlets in the
shop.

As for the timing -- it is certainly not critical. It was
handled with a cam and clock motor before.

Ideally -- what I would like would be to have it produce a
couple of full squirts on power-up, and then wait about subsequent ones
until shortly before an axis mode is commanded from the computer.

I've even got the SSR and the line to the computer to handle it.
The SSR was put in there to keep the pump off when the electronics
chassis on the back of the mill was off (other than the 240V to 120V
transformer to run the coolant pump and auxiliary outlet) so the base of
the mill does not fill up with wasted Vactra No. 2 -- as happened at
work with an Anilam conversion of a Taiwanese Bridgeport clone unless we
remembered to turn off the computer at the end of the run.

And -- that SSR and lube pump were the *only* thing still
powered up when I was called out to dinner by my wife. And it was less
than ten minutes from when I left the room until I smelled the smoke.
Really -- just time to go to the kitchen, accept a plate of food and
utensils, and head upstairs to sit down and eat in the room with the
computers.

The HP computer intended to run the Bridgeport was located much
lower and may have survived the heat -- but since it was running until
the breakers popped, it likely has the CPU's heat sink full of soot.

No asthma, I hope?


Not according to the VA, but I can barely breathe when it's hot &
humod. They did the test in a 65 degree room with dry 'breathng
gasses'. I almost passed out, leaving the hospital.

Was this before the fire experience or after? You could have
filled your lungs with smoke in that environment and reduced their
efficiency. (This is assuming that you don't/didn't smoke tobacco.
Since I started with Asthma as a little kid, I never took up smoking.)


The test was done several years after that fire, but it developed
when I was stationed in the sub zero, zero humidity in Alaska.

Yes -- that extremely low humidity can be nasty. Those
conditions tend to trigger my asthma -- unless I wrap a couple of layers
of loose knitted wool scarf around my head and breathe in *and* out
*through* it to conserve moisture.

I also grew up in South Texas (inland -- not near the coast),
where it was so dry that I had frequent nosebleeds as a little kid.

i was
sent there, in spite of having had sever pneumonia as a teenager. That
was against regulations, but I was told, We can't do anything, now that
you're here.

Ouch!

[ ... ]

We were sent home for a day, while they aired out the building
and picked up the loose tiles. I went in there for a short visit while
it was still contaminated and hot, and I *certainly* would not want to
work in that environment.

I'm not sure *how* they got rid of the smell.


At least it wasn't a lawyer. They would NEVER get rid of that smell.

There are commercial odor removers used by the fire restoration
trade. I used Odor Ban to clear the stench after a breaker box caught
fire. I sprayed a couple ounces of it into the damaged panel (with the
power off), and a few days later you could barely detect it.

Sounds useful.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 00:27:20 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:
Thanks! Looks like it will be a while before I'm back into that
project. They've got to pull all the machines out (and everything
else), then clean them all off (and lube surfaces), then rip out the
drywall, clean everything else remaining, reinstall the drywall, and
move what has survived back in.

That's truly a bummer, DoN. Condolences.

That sounds like three months or more of waiting.

I don't believe that Mother Nature will give him that much time before
starting to drop massive amounts of rain and snow on the equipment
outside. Let's hope it goes more quickly and salvageable equipment is
all back inside before then.


Me too, but I used to do some work for a fire restoration company,
and nothing ever finished in 30 days. The insurance companies micro
managed every job.

They are planning on putting them on pallets and sheltering them
(with tarps, perhaps).

If there is room for it I would suggest they get a rental container, 20'
or 40' as appropriate and move the palletized machines into there. It is
far better from both a weather and a security perspective, and the
monthly rental on a container is pretty cheap. You can even readily get
a power cord in there and run a dehumidifier.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]


I think I would replace it with a digital timer. A 555 timer,
followed by a 4040 or 4060 binary IC counter. Or a PIC or Atmel MPU.

Hmm ... And a small geared DC motor running a pump to put out
the oil on demand? To maintain the same pressure, I probably would need
a spring-loaded piston and a sensor to say when the spring is fully
compressed, to provide the required pressure to match the metering
apertures (though which Vactra No. 2 doesn't exactly move quickly. :-)


How accurate do you need the timer? A 32,768 Hz crystal, and four
4027 binary dividers would let you set whatever cycle time you want, and
another chip or two would let you set the run time. Drive a SSR, and
any AC powered pump. I have plenty of DIP switches, and probably
everything else except a spare SSR. It would be easy to program in
seconds (in binary), and easy to repair in the field. it would all fit
on a small protobooard and cost about $5 to $10 to build.

The electronics are simple -- and could likely be built with
some of the contents of my now rather wilted set of "Bug Boxes".


You see them on Ebay and at hamfests, from time to time.

Check the pins on any parts stored at that head. Old antistaic
compounds break down and eat the plating off leads. I use a antistac
brass brus to clean them, and if needed, a quick dip of the leads in
rosin flux & the solder pot to see if they are still solderable.

You can buy sheets of 1/4" thick Desco AS foam on Ebay for reasonable
prices.


They
were quite high in the shop (should have been moved to the recently
re-activated electronics shop in the cellar), where the really hot air
was. Likely the Intel-based IBM computer which was used to communicate
with the Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC was fried, and the LCD monitor a lost
cause too. Can't test anything until I get it all out of there. I
don't dare turn the breakers back on for most of the outlets in the
shop.

As for the timing -- it is certainly not critical. It was
handled with a cam and clock motor before.

Ideally -- what I would like would be to have it produce a
couple of full squirts on power-up, and then wait about subsequent ones
until shortly before an axis mode is commanded from the computer.


You could hack a USBASP Atmel based programmer into a controller for
under $10, or many of the super cheap development boards. The software
is free, and most have a USB port for programming. The software is
free, and there are multiple forums for help. Another option is the
$4.30 TI 'Launchpad' development board.
http://www.ti.com/tool/msp-exp430g2 TI has a forum for users, and the
programming software is free.


I've even got the SSR and the line to the computer to handle it.
The SSR was put in there to keep the pump off when the electronics
chassis on the back of the mill was off (other than the 240V to 120V
transformer to run the coolant pump and auxiliary outlet) so the base of
the mill does not fill up with wasted Vactra No. 2 -- as happened at
work with an Anilam conversion of a Taiwanese Bridgeport clone unless we
remembered to turn off the computer at the end of the run.

And -- that SSR and lube pump were the *only* thing still
powered up when I was called out to dinner by my wife. And it was less
than ten minutes from when I left the room until I smelled the smoke.
Really -- just time to go to the kitchen, accept a plate of food and
utensils, and head upstairs to sit down and eat in the room with the
computers.

The HP computer intended to run the Bridgeport was located much
lower and may have survived the heat -- but since it was running until
the breakers popped, it likely has the CPU's heat sink full of soot.


Let me know if you need any parts, or a whole, older computer. At
the very least, replace the power supply, and check the electrolytics
near the processor for bulging or venting. Those temperatures are hell
on electrolytics.


No asthma, I hope?


Not according to the VA, but I can barely breathe when it's hot &
humod. They did the test in a 65 degree room with dry 'breathng
gasses'. I almost passed out, leaving the hospital.

Was this before the fire experience or after? You could have
filled your lungs with smoke in that environment and reduced their
efficiency. (This is assuming that you don't/didn't smoke tobacco.
Since I started with Asthma as a little kid, I never took up smoking.)


The test was done several years after that fire, but it developed
when I was stationed in the sub zero, zero humidity in Alaska.

Yes -- that extremely low humidity can be nasty. Those
conditions tend to trigger my asthma -- unless I wrap a couple of layers
of loose knitted wool scarf around my head and breathe in *and* out
*through* it to conserve moisture.


I sleep with a sheet over my head in the winter to keep from waiting
up so hoarse that I can't talk.


I also grew up in South Texas (inland -- not near the coast),
where it was so dry that I had frequent nosebleeds as a little kid.


Better than those manually induced by bullies. ;-)

i was
sent there, in spite of having had sever pneumonia as a teenager. That
was against regulations, but I was told, We can't do anything, now that
you're here.

Ouch!


Typical military. The rules apply, when THEY want them to.


[ ... ]

We were sent home for a day, while they aired out the building
and picked up the loose tiles. I went in there for a short visit while
it was still contaminated and hot, and I *certainly* would not want to
work in that environment.

I'm not sure *how* they got rid of the smell.


At least it wasn't a lawyer. They would NEVER get rid of that smell.

There are commercial odor removers used by the fire restoration
trade. I used Odor Ban to clear the stench after a breaker box caught
fire. I sprayed a couple ounces of it into the damaged panel (with the
power off), and a few days later you could barely detect it.

Sounds useful.


I bought it at Sam's Club in the janitorial supplies.

Those are glass covered - beer color glass - and that allows them
to get hot and re-flows the glass over the wire, protecting it from
oxygen. They were really over laoded and were red to white hot -
the one on the right boiled making foam out of the glass.

Motor or tube short can do that - depending on the circuit.

I have a number of large ones - several 8 ohm that are larger than
your arm.

Martin

On 9/28/2012 12:39 PM, James Waldby wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:56:49 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11519 wrote:

I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.
Oh, one thing I meant to mention. The braking resistors may
just LOOK cooked, but still be quite fine. With rapid start/stop
or rigid tapping, they will get quite hot in normal operation.

In the picture of the braking resistors,
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine-0014.jpg
it looks to me like the ceramic core of the lower-left resistor is
showing where wire ought to be. But sure, those resistors could
still be quite fine.

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Me too, but I used to do some work for a fire restoration
company, and nothing ever finished in 30 days. The insurance
companies micro managed every job.

They are planning on putting them on pallets and sheltering them
(with tarps, perhaps).


I suggest they use large rolls of black plastic, then tarps. A
generous spray of engine cleaner will help keep them from rusting while
outside. It will also help you clean them up, when it's time to repair
& test them.

A good idea. Thanks!
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-09-28, Pete C. wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

[ ... ]

I don't believe that Mother Nature will give him that much time before
starting to drop massive amounts of rain and snow on the equipment
outside. Let's hope it goes more quickly and salvageable equipment is
all back inside before then.


Me too, but I used to do some work for a fire restoration company,
and nothing ever finished in 30 days. The insurance companies micro
managed every job.

They are planning on putting them on pallets and sheltering them
(with tarps, perhaps).

If there is room for it I would suggest they get a rental container, 20'
or 40' as appropriate and move the palletized machines into there. It is
far better from both a weather and a security perspective, and the
monthly rental on a container is pretty cheap. You can even readily get
a power cord in there and run a dehumidifier.

Unfortunately -- both room is marginal, and the containers are
against the town ordanances. :-(

Otherwise, I would probably have had the shop in one already and
not part of the house.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:51:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:
At least it wasn't a lawyer. They would NEVER get rid of that smell.

There are commercial odor removers used by the fire restoration
trade. I used Odor Ban to clear the stench after a breaker box caught
fire. I sprayed a couple ounces of it into the damaged panel (with the
power off), and a few days later you could barely detect it.

I have a sensitive sniffer and would never live in a house which had
had a fire in it. I could smell it forever, something I can't handle.
It comes right through the paint, even with triple coats of primer and
eleventy dousings with odor remover.

When it comes to death and fire scents, they just keep on giving.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:38:12 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jon Elson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:


The winding may have opened & arced, causing plasma which ignited the
oil. I used to see hundreds of bad clock motors a year, when one shop
did school clocks & fire alarms. Most had bad gears, but some had open
coils and burn marks.

Yup, I agree. An impedance-limited motor can't get hot enough to
ignite oil. But, if there was internal or external arcing, that could do
it. I'm still a little surprised internal arcing could do it, as these
motors are usually pretty well closed up. Either it arced internally
for quite a while, or until an outside wire burned off and dropped into
the usual oily mess on such pumps. It really seems a properly-sized
fuse should have cut this off before it got to that stage. Might be
something to install while rebuilding.


Some have vents to cool the coils, or open windings. Older motors
were often built with a brass or aluminum deep drawn cover that was
friction fit to the steel body, and could work loose. Some would pull
off with your fingers, and had enough gap to let a flame out if it was
in the right spot. Since the motors were designed for another use, the
thought of starting a fire likely wasn't considered. I once found a
particle board speaker cabinet that was set on fire when the wirewound
two watt 20 ohm pot caught fire. Someone had removed the line
transformer to get more volume, rather than find a short in the building
wiring. When I found the bad wire, the speaker could be heard all over
a 40,000 Sq foot room, for about a second. It had shorted to the
ceiling grid, which was grounded to the steel building and support
posts.

When I ran a 5 county division of Cincinnati Time, I had a ****load of
time clocks using the same sorts of motors. And from time to time..Id
have one sent back in for a rebuild (if possible), where one of those
motors had managed to ignite all the paper dust that wound up coating
the guts of some types of timeclocks. Particuarly those that punched a
hole in the card.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


If there is room for it I would suggest they get a rental container, 20'
or 40' as appropriate and move the palletized machines into there. It is
far better from both a weather and a security perspective, and the
monthly rental on a container is pretty cheap. You can even readily get
a power cord in there and run a dehumidifier.

Unfortunately -- both room is marginal, and the containers are
against the town ordanances. :-(

Time to find a better town. How about the smaller PODs?


Otherwise, I would probably have had the shop in one already and
not part of the house.

Definitely time to move to the free world where people mind their
business and leave your modular shed alone.

On 29 Sep 2012 03:14:05 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Pete C. wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

[ ... ]

I don't believe that Mother Nature will give him that much time before
starting to drop massive amounts of rain and snow on the equipment
outside. Let's hope it goes more quickly and salvageable equipment is
all back inside before then.


Me too, but I used to do some work for a fire restoration company,
and nothing ever finished in 30 days. The insurance companies micro
managed every job.

They are planning on putting them on pallets and sheltering them
(with tarps, perhaps).

If there is room for it I would suggest they get a rental container, 20'
or 40' as appropriate and move the palletized machines into there. It is
far better from both a weather and a security perspective, and the
monthly rental on a container is pretty cheap. You can even readily get
a power cord in there and run a dehumidifier.

Unfortunately -- both room is marginal, and the containers are
against the town ordanances. :-(

Have you asked the ****ty Council for a temporary code waiver during
remodeling after the fire? Stranger things have happened.


Otherwise, I would probably have had the shop in one already and
not part of the house.

So you don't feel too bad:

Local guys are getting almost $5k for a 20 or 40' cargo container with
a 1 human door, 1 rollup door, and lighting installed. They want
nearly $3k for a bare box.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:51:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:
At least it wasn't a lawyer. They would NEVER get rid of that smell.

There are commercial odor removers used by the fire restoration
trade. I used Odor Ban to clear the stench after a breaker box caught
fire. I sprayed a couple ounces of it into the damaged panel (with the
power off), and a few days later you could barely detect it.

I have a sensitive sniffer and would never live in a house which had
had a fire in it. I could smell it forever, something I can't handle.
It comes right through the paint, even with triple coats of primer and
eleventy dousings with odor remover.

When it comes to death and fire scents, they just keep on giving.


The chemicals available today do an amazing job of neutralizing the
odor. The breaker box that burnt was in a wood paneled wall. I get the
occasional scent of smoke at night when the window AC is running, and
pulling in some outside air, but I haven't smelled burnt bakelight in
years.

Gunner wrote:

When I ran a 5 county division of Cincinnati Time, I had a ****load of
time clocks using the same sorts of motors. And from time to time..Id
have one sent back in for a rebuild (if possible), where one of those
motors had managed to ignite all the paper dust that wound up coating
the guts of some types of timeclocks. Particuarly those that punched a
hole in the card.


Just be glad they weren't full of chad from oiled paper in a teletype
machine. Or scraps of Acetate movie film. That stuff really burns.

I spent a little more time with the machine today.

I was able to figure out how to enter a program.

I entered

M3 S2000
M8 6
M0

Which means Start the spindle at 2k RPM
Dwell 6 seconds
Stop

Anyway, the program was recognized and started. The drive errored out
with the error "FU". "FU" means something other than you just thought
about, it means a breaker trip, overcurrent or faulty drive.

Given that the brake resistors burned out, I fully believe that it is
the drive that is bad. I will try to arrange to have it repaired.

i

Ignoramus23622 wrote:

I spent a little more time with the machine today.

I was able to figure out how to enter a program.

I entered

M3 S2000
M8 6
M0

Which means Start the spindle at 2k RPM
Dwell 6 seconds
Stop

Anyway, the program was recognized and started. The drive errored out
with the error "FU". "FU" means something other than you just thought
about, it means a breaker trip, overcurrent or faulty drive.

Given that the brake resistors burned out, I fully believe that it is
the drive that is bad. I will try to arrange to have it repaired.

i

Check all the wiring on the drive and whatnot to ensure there are no
faults that could damage the new or repaired drive. Particularly check
for potential intermittent connections on the output to the spindle
since we know VFDs don't like those connections being broken when
running.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 03:10:46 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
....
You could hack a USBASP Atmel based programmer into a controller for
under $10, or many of the super cheap development boards. The software
is free, and most have a USB port for programming.

Hmm ... the problem is getting the software to run on my Sun
Blade 2000 under Solaris 10. :-)
....
The software is free, and there are multiple forums for help.
Another option is the $4.30 TI 'Launchpad' development board.

All aimed at Windows as the development platform? :-(

No, http://www.ti.com/tool/ccstudio-msp430 says (about Code Composer
Studio) that "MSP430 development with CCS is available for Windows and
Linux operating systems." CCS is Eclipse-based. I have Eclipse Indigo
installed on my Ubuntu system for Android development and it works ok
(aside from taking up hundreds of megabytes of disk space). The free
CCS version "only supports firmware that is 16kB or smaller" but "All
MSP430 devices supported." One of the two chips that come with the
LaunchPad board is 8KB and the other is 16KB. Either one will run a
few thousand lines of C code, or quite a few lines more of assembly.
A compiler and an assembler come with CCS. Open source MSPGCC and
Energia are available too.

http://www.ti.com/tool/msp-exp430g2 TI has a forum for users, and the
programming software is free.

Sounds good -- though it might force me into a Windows system to
run it.
....
At least the OS's which I'm using don't insist on calling home
every time a bit shifts in the disk drive serial number or any other
perceived change. One system is running Ubuntu linux with LinuxCNC
embedded in it, and the other is running Solaris 10 (x86 version, not
the UltraSPARC which on most of my other systems. :-)
....


--
jiw

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:16:27 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Ignoramus23622 wrote:

I spent a little more time with the machine today.

I was able to figure out how to enter a program.

I entered

M3 S2000
M8 6
M0

Which means Start the spindle at 2k RPM
Dwell 6 seconds
Stop

Anyway, the program was recognized and started. The drive errored out
with the error "FU". "FU" means something other than you just thought
about, it means a breaker trip, overcurrent or faulty drive.

Given that the brake resistors burned out, I fully believe that it is
the drive that is bad. I will try to arrange to have it repaired.

i

Check all the wiring on the drive and whatnot to ensure there are no
faults that could damage the new or repaired drive. Particularly check
for potential intermittent connections on the output to the spindle
since we know VFDs don't like those connections being broken when
running.


And try starting it at 60 rpm rather than 2000.

Second question...does it have a high speed and a low speed? Some
mills, Visimetric comes to mind..that are programmed to kick the
high/low gearbox below the motor at certain speeds.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 06:52:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 29 Sep 2012 03:14:05 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Pete C. wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

[ ... ]

I don't believe that Mother Nature will give him that much time before
starting to drop massive amounts of rain and snow on the equipment
outside. Let's hope it goes more quickly and salvageable equipment is
all back inside before then.


Me too, but I used to do some work for a fire restoration company,
and nothing ever finished in 30 days. The insurance companies micro
managed every job.

They are planning on putting them on pallets and sheltering them
(with tarps, perhaps).

If there is room for it I would suggest they get a rental container, 20'
or 40' as appropriate and move the palletized machines into there. It is
far better from both a weather and a security perspective, and the
monthly rental on a container is pretty cheap. You can even readily get
a power cord in there and run a dehumidifier.

Unfortunately -- both room is marginal, and the containers are
against the town ordanances. :-(

Have you asked the ****ty Council for a temporary code waiver during
remodeling after the fire? Stranger things have happened.


Otherwise, I would probably have had the shop in one already and
not part of the house.

So you don't feel too bad:

Local guys are getting almost $5k for a 20 or 40' cargo container with
a 1 human door, 1 rollup door, and lighting installed. They want
nearly $3k for a bare box.


And one can buy a bare box at the dock for $900 (40 footer)

We have quite a glut of them at the moment in the US

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 10:53:35 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

When I ran a 5 county division of Cincinnati Time, I had a ****load of
time clocks using the same sorts of motors. And from time to time..Id
have one sent back in for a rebuild (if possible), where one of those
motors had managed to ignite all the paper dust that wound up coating
the guts of some types of timeclocks. Particuarly those that punched a
hole in the card.


Just be glad they weren't full of chad from oiled paper in a teletype
machine. Or scraps of Acetate movie film. That stuff really burns.

Indeed it does! Acroprint made a timeclock that used a plastic
card..when they burned..so did the building

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 10:53:35 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

When I ran a 5 county division of Cincinnati Time, I had a ****load of
time clocks using the same sorts of motors. And from time to time..Id
have one sent back in for a rebuild (if possible), where one of those
motors had managed to ignite all the paper dust that wound up coating
the guts of some types of timeclocks. Particuarly those that punched a
hole in the card.


Just be glad they weren't full of chad from oiled paper in a teletype
machine. Or scraps of Acetate movie film. That stuff really burns.

Indeed it does! Acroprint made a timeclock that used a plastic
card..when they burned..so did the building


Sounds like one of 'Ford's better ideas' that wasn't.

Gunner wrote:

And one can buy a bare box at the dock for $900 (40 footer)


Too bad the delivery costs are so high, or I would see about
replacing my old garage with four 40' side by side. The nearest cargo
port is Tampa.

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
m:

Too bad the delivery costs are so high, or I would see about
replacing my old garage with four 40' side by side. The nearest cargo
port is Tampa.


Michael, there are all sorts of situations where materials are delivered
in a container (by truck), but must be bombed off the truck by the
receiving party, because they don't want the box.

After that, the trucker must either dead-head the box back to the port,
or deliver it locally, if someone has bought it ahead of time.

Call some trucking companies that haul containerized freight, and ask
about it. I got a very nice 40-footer for $1800, delivered.

LLoyd

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 11:45:13 -0500, Ignoramus23622
wrote:

I spent a little more time with the machine today.

I was able to figure out how to enter a program.

I entered

M3 S2000
M8 6
M0

Which means Start the spindle at 2k RPM
Dwell 6 seconds
Stop

Anyway, the program was recognized and started.

Excellent, so far.


The drive errored out
with the error "FU". "FU" means something other than you just thought
about,

Oh, you know us so -very- well, Ig... giggle



it means a breaker trip, overcurrent or faulty drive.

Hmm...

Given that the brake resistors burned out, I fully believe that it is
the drive that is bad. I will try to arrange to have it repaired.

Many machines error out during the POST if any one component is not in
the loop, etc. Those fried resistors might be that component. Cross
your fingers.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

I bought three things recently in one package.

1) A Hyster 3k forklift
2) A GM TopKick dump truck, 26k GVWR
3) A 20 foot container

The price was $2,400. The forklift promptly sold for $1,900. I kept
the other two items.

Oddly enough, the person who bought that forklift from me had a
"broken" forklift that he sold me as a trade-in for $300.

All it needed was replacement of mast cylinder seals.

i

On 2012-09-29, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 11:45:13 -0500, Ignoramus23622
wrote:

I spent a little more time with the machine today.

I was able to figure out how to enter a program.

I entered

M3 S2000
M8 6
M0

Which means Start the spindle at 2k RPM
Dwell 6 seconds
Stop

Anyway, the program was recognized and started.

Excellent, so far.


The drive errored out
with the error "FU". "FU" means something other than you just thought
about,

Oh, you know us so -very- well, Ig... giggle



it means a breaker trip, overcurrent or faulty drive.

Hmm...

Given that the brake resistors burned out, I fully believe that it is
the drive that is bad. I will try to arrange to have it repaired.

Many machines error out during the POST if any one component is not in
the loop, etc. Those fried resistors might be that component. Cross
your fingers.


I will hopefully know soon, this is such a kick-butt machine. Even
better than my Bridgeport Interact. It does not even need a
conversion, it is good enough as is.

i

James Waldby wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:56:49 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11519 wrote:

I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.
Oh, one thing I meant to mention. The braking resistors may
just LOOK cooked, but still be quite fine. With rapid start/stop
or rigid tapping, they will get quite hot in normal operation.

In the picture of the braking resistors,

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine-0014.jpg
it looks to me like the ceramic core of the lower-left resistor is
showing where wire ought to be. But sure, those resistors could
still be quite fine.

I can't really even tell what I'm looking at. But, it does look
pretty burned, not just a little overheated. In this case, I
think the transistor in the VFD that turns on the braking resistor
failed shorted, applying continuous 340 or 680 V DC to the resistors,
when they were designed for short blips of current when the motor
is slowing. A good chance the rest of the VFD is fried, too.
It would likely be easier to replace the whole VFD than try to
source the right power transistor and hope the control logic wasn't
the real problem.

Jon

On 2012-09-29, Pete C. wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


If there is room for it I would suggest they get a rental container, 20'
or 40' as appropriate and move the palletized machines into there. It is
far better from both a weather and a security perspective, and the
monthly rental on a container is pretty cheap. You can even readily get
a power cord in there and run a dehumidifier.

Unfortunately -- both room is marginal, and the containers are
against the town ordinances. :-(

Time to find a better town. How about the smaller PODs?

Been here since 1975, and have *way* too much to move.

And retired, fixed income, and the cash requirements for moving
to a place large enough would be prohibitive. I'm sort of stuck.

The price difference between the house here (if a buyer could be
found in the current market) and one more distant would make life much
easier after the move -- but leading up to it is a different matter.

Otherwise, I would probably have had the shop in one already and
not part of the house.

Definitely time to move to the free world where people mind their
business and leave your modular shed alone.

:-)

What do you expect from a place just outside the Washington DC
Beltway?

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:22:16 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
om:

Too bad the delivery costs are so high, or I would see about
replacing my old garage with four 40' side by side. The nearest cargo
port is Tampa.


Michael, there are all sorts of situations where materials are delivered
in a container (by truck), but must be bombed off the truck by the
receiving party, because they don't want the box.

After that, the trucker must either dead-head the box back to the port,
or deliver it locally, if someone has bought it ahead of time.

Call some trucking companies that haul containerized freight, and ask
about it. I got a very nice 40-footer for $1800, delivered.

LLoyd

Very good!

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 22:43:27 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

James Waldby wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:56:49 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11519 wrote:

I do not think that it shows any error. This is why I doubt if there
is anything wrong.
Oh, one thing I meant to mention. The braking resistors may
just LOOK cooked, but still be quite fine. With rapid start/stop
or rigid tapping, they will get quite hot in normal operation.

In the picture of the braking resistors,

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine/Lagunmatic-CNC-Milling-Machine-0014.jpg
it looks to me like the ceramic core of the lower-left resistor is
showing where wire ought to be. But sure, those resistors could
still be quite fine.

I can't really even tell what I'm looking at. But, it does look
pretty burned, not just a little overheated. In this case, I
think the transistor in the VFD that turns on the braking resistor
failed shorted, applying continuous 340 or 680 V DC to the resistors,
when they were designed for short blips of current when the motor
is slowing. A good chance the rest of the VFD is fried, too.
It would likely be easier to replace the whole VFD than try to
source the right power transistor and hope the control logic wasn't
the real problem.

Jon

VFDs have been dirt cheap on Ebay in the last couple years....

Gunner


Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:22:16 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
om:

Too bad the delivery costs are so high, or I would see about
replacing my old garage with four 40' side by side. The nearest cargo
port is Tampa.


Michael, there are all sorts of situations where materials are delivered
in a container (by truck), but must be bombed off the truck by the
receiving party, because they don't want the box.

After that, the trucker must either dead-head the box back to the port,
or deliver it locally, if someone has bought it ahead of time.

Call some trucking companies that haul containerized freight, and ask
about it. I got a very nice 40-footer for $1800, delivered.

LLoyd

Very good!


I don't remember ever seeing a freight container pass trough this
area, except on a freight train. I met a Veteran (while waiting to see
my VA doctor) who delivers them from Tampa and it was around $2500,
dropped on site. It would take amost an entire year of my pension to
buy four of them.

The only big industry in the area is Lockheed Martian, and they have
a rail line by their facilities. The others are gone. The Mark III
Industries van conversion complex is empty. All the companies that
built mobile homes are closed, and padlocked inside high fences. The
area is more horse farms & retirement communities than manufacturing.

On 2012-09-30, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

You could hack a USBASP Atmel based programmer into a controller for
under $10, or many of the super cheap development boards. The software
is free, and most have a USB port for programming.

[ ... ]

An old yardsale junker with 98SE or newer would run it.

Yep -- yet another system to isolate from the net. :-)

After I find a place to put that extra computer. I really like
sitting here with the keyboard of my Sun Blade 2000 in my lap typing
away. Windows doesn't do well with remote logins, though it sort of
works with VNC on both systems -- except that both the remote and local
keyboards are talking to the same process. A real pain if someone else
comes up to the Windows box -- or even if a cat hops on the keyboard.


You would only need it to program the chips. It doesn't have to be
on to run the boards. All they need is +5V after they are programmed.
The TI and the USBASP are both availible for under $5 each. The USBASP
has a small Atemel MPU on board, with a USB core loaded to allow it to
be reprogrammed. A second board is used to reprogram it. Here is a
link to midfying & programming the boards:

http://jethomson.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/project-ouroboros-reflashing-a-betemcu-usbasp-programmer/

I think that I'll ask you for this again after the shop and
house are back together. I don't think that I have anyplace to save
this information (other than my saved copies of most of the newsgroup
articles which I actually read). The whole shop and house are going to
be in a constant state of flux until full recovery from the fire. The
shop has to be totally emptied, machines cleaned, relubed, and analyzed
after removal, all drywall pulled out of the shop, wiring checked, and
everything which survived goes back in.

*While* this is happening in the garage, our very cluttered
house has to be cleaned and partially packed up and stored outside the
house, while the walls are cleaned of the smoke, and re-painted.

This while a HEPA filter unit is cleaning the air in our
bedroom. (And we will have to move to the spare bedroom while the main
one is cleaned and painted.)

So really -- any projects are on hold until all of this is done.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-30, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

You could hack a USBASP Atmel based programmer into a controller for
under $10, or many of the super cheap development boards. The software
is free, and most have a USB port for programming.

[ ... ]

An old yardsale junker with 98SE or newer would run it.

Yep -- yet another system to isolate from the net. :-)

After I find a place to put that extra computer. I really like
sitting here with the keyboard of my Sun Blade 2000 in my lap typing
away. Windows doesn't do well with remote logins, though it sort of
works with VNC on both systems -- except that both the remote and local
keyboards are talking to the same process. A real pain if someone else
comes up to the Windows box -- or even if a cat hops on the keyboard.


You would only need it to program the chips. It doesn't have to be
on to run the boards. All they need is +5V after they are programmed.
The TI and the USBASP are both availible for under $5 each. The USBASP
has a small Atemel MPU on board, with a USB core loaded to allow it to
be reprogrammed. A second board is used to reprogram it. Here is a
link to midfying & programming the boards:

http://jethomson.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/project-ouroboros-reflashing-a-betemcu-usbasp-programmer/

I think that I'll ask you for this again after the shop and
house are back together.


No problem. Just let me know if you need it in the futiure.


I don't think that I have anyplace to save
this information (other than my saved copies of most of the newsgroup
articles which I actually read). The whole shop and house are going to
be in a constant state of flux until full recovery from the fire. The
shop has to be totally emptied, machines cleaned, relubed, and analyzed
after removal, all drywall pulled out of the shop, wiring checked, and
everything which survived goes back in.

*While* this is happening in the garage, our very cluttered
house has to be cleaned and partially packed up and stored outside the
house, while the walls are cleaned of the smoke, and re-painted.

This while a HEPA filter unit is cleaning the air in our
bedroom. (And we will have to move to the spare bedroom while the main
one is cleaned and painted.)

So really -- any projects are on hold until all of this is done.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 18:06:26 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:22:16 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
om:

Too bad the delivery costs are so high, or I would see about
replacing my old garage with four 40' side by side. The nearest cargo
port is Tampa.


Michael, there are all sorts of situations where materials are delivered
in a container (by truck), but must be bombed off the truck by the
receiving party, because they don't want the box.

After that, the trucker must either dead-head the box back to the port,
or deliver it locally, if someone has bought it ahead of time.

Call some trucking companies that haul containerized freight, and ask
about it. I got a very nice 40-footer for $1800, delivered.

LLoyd

Very good!


I don't remember ever seeing a freight container pass trough this
area, except on a freight train. I met a Veteran (while waiting to see
my VA doctor) who delivers them from Tampa and it was around $2500,
dropped on site. It would take amost an entire year of my pension to
buy four of them.

The only big industry in the area is Lockheed Martian, and they have
a rail line by their facilities. The others are gone. The Mark III
Industries van conversion complex is empty. All the companies that
built mobile homes are closed, and padlocked inside high fences. The
area is more horse farms & retirement communities than manufacturing.

Do 2 things

Call around the nearest point of entry for shipping containers for the
best price AT the dock.

Then call around some freight brokers and trucking companies and see
if anyone deadheads to your area with a flatbed.

Sometimes...it can be amazingly cheap to have a container loaded on a
flatbed when a guy goes home for the weekend.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On 2012-10-01, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2012-09-30, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]

http://jethomson.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/project-ouroboros-reflashing-a-betemcu-usbasp-programmer/

I think that I'll ask you for this again after the shop and
house are back together.


No problem. Just let me know if you need it in the futiure.

Thanks. I will.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---