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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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language: The missing engineering skill
I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal
types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd |
#2
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language: The missing engineering skill
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd Yes I agree. I was asking a compressor supplier about one of their products recently and was told it was a 'D' rated compressor by email. I called them and got the information that what he meant was derated. |
#3
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language: The missing engineering skill
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 06:17:48 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. My fave was the radio alarm saw in the newspaper. But seeing this kind of crap in a legal document just burns me up. -- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams |
#4
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language: The missing engineering skill
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70... I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. We simply are not litirerily orientated. We don't have enough liberries, either.... yo. How bout the 80% of our Senate/Congress that sez "nukyooler"..... No matter, tho, cuz oh-ficial language in Wash. is Lobby$peak.... -- EA Lloyd |
#5
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language: The missing engineering skill
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd They can compensate in person by drawing pictures, which are often more helpful anyway. There is little point in verbally describing an electrical schematic or the shape of a gear tooth. The drawing IS the native language that best defines them. I began posting here to practice technical writing, which I flunked twice in college and would have at Mitre if they graded the course. Instead the instructor told tales about surviving in the various corporate and government management models, and how Leonard Bernstein was a flaming gay who refused to hire anyone like him who wasn't. Chemistry required a lot of writing, but it had evolved into memorizeable cliches with precise and universally understood meanings, like legalese. I had to learn German to read their pioneering work in chemistry. There was a soon-to-be Rhodes scholar in math in the class, so the vocabulary was directed mostly at her. As in English some words like "solution" (Loesung) apply in both fields. jsw |
#6
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language: The missing engineering skill
On 2012-09-11, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. For some, this lack of literacy is an opportunity. Just check ebay with all those misspelled items. Recently, I bought a "PANTARGRAPH SET" for $50, resold for $150 as a "PANTOGRAPH SET". Steve B always likes to buy "Vice Grips", last I heard.; I do agree with you, though, it is sad to see so many people who cannot spell properly. i |
#7
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language: The missing engineering skill
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#8
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language: The missing engineering skill
J. Clarke wrote: In article , says... How bout the 80% of our Senate/Congress that sez "nukyooler"..... No matter, tho, cuz oh-ficial language in Wash. is Lobby$peak.... Anyone who takes the Southern pronunciation of "nuclear" as a sign of ignorance needs to spend some time in the nuclear engineering department at one of the Oak Ridge Associated Universities. Do they say that protons and neutrons comprise the "nuculus" of an atom? If so then it's just blatantly incorrect non-phonetic pronunciation, but if not then it would seem that they don't understand what "nuclear" refers to. A Pakistani scientist claimed that some of his colleagues believed there was a genie in the reactor, but it would be nice to know even our Southern engineers understood what these words mean. -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
#9
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language: The missing engineering skill
Ignoramus9479 wrote: For some, this lack of literacy is an opportunity. Just check ebay with all those misspelled items. Recently, I bought a "PANTARGRAPH SET" for $50, resold for $150 as a "PANTOGRAPH SET". Steve B always likes to buy "Vice Grips", last I heard.; 1/4 the price of vise grips I see! -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
#10
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language: The missing engineering skill
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd My favorites: a settling torch rod iron For a long time the local DRMO had "scrap irony" |
#11
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language: The missing engineering skill
On 9/11/2012 12:11 PM, Rick wrote:
.... My favorites: a settling torch rod iron For a long time the local DRMO had "scrap irony" The quintessential "duck tape" has always grated on my ears... But, one has to be careful in throwing stones--I doubt there's anybody who doesn't have at least one malapropism in their past even if it's just a leftover from something grown-ups said while were kids that didn't understand. Not to say that education levels have not dropped all across the board; certainly they have. General technical knowledge is abysmally low, however... -- |
#12
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language: The missing engineering skill
"dpb" wrote in message ... On 9/11/2012 12:11 PM, Rick wrote: ... My favorites: a settling torch rod iron For a long time the local DRMO had "scrap irony" The quintessential "duck tape" has always grated on my ears... Actually, it was originally called duck tape because it was made from cotton duck fabric and was water proof. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape In fact it is not very good for ducts: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...es-3074152.php http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/...tape-HVAC.html |
#13
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language: The missing engineering skill
dpb wrote:
On 9/11/2012 12:11 PM, Rick wrote: ... My favorites: a settling torch rod iron For a long time the local DRMO had "scrap irony" The quintessential "duck tape" has always grated on my ears... I think someone in the UK or Europe saw an opportunity there and we in the UK can buy "Duck" brand tape in many local DIY shops http://www.duckbrand.com/ , actually looking at the contact info they're US based http://www.duckbrand.com/Info/Contact.aspx . I always thought it was duct tape for sealing duct joints or a similar application but not really sure , some info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape But, one has to be careful in throwing stones--I doubt there's anybody who doesn't have at least one malapropism in their past even if it's just a leftover from something grown-ups said while were kids that didn't understand. Not to say that education levels have not dropped all across the board; certainly they have. General technical knowledge is abysmally low, however... -- |
#14
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language: The missing engineering skill
On 9/11/2012 6:17 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd That's why we invented drawing - first. |
#15
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language: The missing engineering skill
"anorton" fired this volley in
: Actually, it was originally called duck tape because it was made from cotton duck fabric and was water proof. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape That's one of those Wiki-Lies, probably written to defend the improper use of the term "duck". Since I'm old enough to remember, I'll tell you that the original DUCT tape was made like today's profession Gaffer's tape. It was made from canvas, not duck. Duck is a much heavier 2x2 weave that isn't ultimately as strong as a single flat-weave canvas. The original DUCT tape was strong, would stick tenaciously to everything, and WAS used (specifically) on AC ducting in the early days of the late 40's through the 1970s. In the mid-seventies, some cheap-for-the-dime retailers demanded that someone make a sticky tape with an inexpensive gauze fabric and a thin vinyl backing that "looked like duct tape"; for no other reason than to cheapen it. That cheap stuff "stuck" (as it were), and real duct tape became "Professional Gaffer's tape", which one can still buy. The original stuff presented a fabric backing, not a slick vinyl one, and was not designed to hold by itself, but to be wire-bound to the (then metal) ducting, then painted. It was a sealing mechanism, not a structural fastener. And it was good. Not like the crap you buy today under the same moniker. LLoyd |
#16
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language: The missing engineering skill
"David Billington" wrote in message ... dpb wrote: On 9/11/2012 12:11 PM, Rick wrote: ... My favorites: a settling torch rod iron For a long time the local DRMO had "scrap irony" The quintessential "duck tape" has always grated on my ears... I think someone in the UK or Europe saw an opportunity there and we in the UK can buy "Duck" brand tape in many local DIY shops http://www.duckbrand.com/ , actually looking at the contact info they're US based http://www.duckbrand.com/Info/Contact.aspx . I always thought it was duct tape for sealing duct joints or a similar application but not really sure , some info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape For hvac ductwork what you want is aluminum foil tape in 4 mil thickness and to pass inspection it'll probably also need approval / listing under UL 181A-P or UL 181B-FX |
#17
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language: The missing engineering skill
Richard fired this volley in
news That's why we invented drawing - first. Not for nothin', but if someone cannot read or communicate well enough to convey units and dimensions, a drawing does no good beyond conveying a general idea. Better than 70% of our population cannot read a ruler! What good would it do to make a drawing with a specification of "11-7/8", if someone cannot discern on a ruler what 7/8" IS? If you doubt that, just watch a home being built (if you can find one, these days). LLoyd |
#18
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language: The missing engineering skill
On 9/11/2012 2:36 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in news That's why we invented drawing - first. Not for nothin', but if someone cannot read or communicate well enough to convey units and dimensions, a drawing does no good beyond conveying a general idea. Better than 70% of our population cannot read a ruler! What good would it do to make a drawing with a specification of "11-7/8", if someone cannot discern on a ruler what 7/8" IS? If you doubt that, just watch a home being built (if you can find one, these days). LLoyd I was thinking, before written language, Lloyd. Building concepts into symbols. However, Running down stupid people doesn't really get us anywhere, does it? Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember that half of the population is below that! So I rejoice that over a third of us CAN do technically sophisticated things. Not just a few magicians at the top... |
#19
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language: The missing engineering skill
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#20
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language: The missing engineering skill
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... "anorton" fired this volley in : Actually, it was originally called duck tape because it was made from cotton duck fabric and was water proof. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape That's one of those Wiki-Lies, probably written to defend the improper use of the term "duck". Since I'm old enough to remember, I'll tell you that the original DUCT tape was made like today's profession Gaffer's tape. It was made from canvas, not duck. Duck is a much heavier 2x2 weave that isn't ultimately as strong as a single flat-weave canvas. The original DUCT tape was strong, would stick tenaciously to everything, and WAS used (specifically) on AC ducting in the early days of the late 40's through the 1970s. In the mid-seventies, some cheap-for-the-dime retailers demanded that someone make a sticky tape with an inexpensive gauze fabric and a thin vinyl backing that "looked like duct tape"; for no other reason than to cheapen it. That cheap stuff "stuck" (as it were), and real duct tape became "Professional Gaffer's tape", which one can still buy. The original stuff presented a fabric backing, not a slick vinyl one, and was not designed to hold by itself, but to be wire-bound to the (then metal) ducting, then painted. It was a sealing mechanism, not a structural fastener. And it was good. Not like the crap you buy today under the same moniker. LLoyd Thats interesting info. If you look into the first and third references in the Wiki article, there is no doubt that there was a product called Duck Tape in 1902 and 1945. Based on what you say, it sounds like there were multiple products for multiple purposes that were cheapened and morphed together over the years. (Is duct tape the only subject that is on-topic in every newsgroup?) |
#21
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language: The missing engineering skill
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 06:17:48 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd That was just at typo. The author meant "Saw-zawl" -- My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook. Why am I not happy that they have found common ground? Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software http://www.wescottdesign.com |
#22
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language: The missing engineering skill
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote: "anorton" fired this volley in : Actually, it was originally called duck tape because it was made from cotton duck fabric and was water proof. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape That's one of those Wiki-Lies, probably written to defend the improper use of the term "duck". Since I'm old enough to remember, I'll tell you that the original DUCT tape was made like today's profession Gaffer's tape. It was made from canvas, not duck. Duck is a much heavier 2x2 weave that isn't ultimately as strong as a single flat-weave canvas. The original DUCT tape was strong, would stick tenaciously to everything, and WAS used (specifically) on AC ducting in the early days of the late 40's through the 1970s. In the mid-seventies, some cheap-for-the-dime retailers demanded that someone make a sticky tape with an inexpensive gauze fabric and a thin vinyl backing that "looked like duct tape"; for no other reason than to cheapen it. That cheap stuff "stuck" (as it were), and real duct tape became "Professional Gaffer's tape", which one can still buy. The original stuff presented a fabric backing, not a slick vinyl one, and was not designed to hold by itself, but to be wire-bound to the (then metal) ducting, then painted. It was a sealing mechanism, not a structural fastener. And it was good. Not like the crap you buy today under the same moniker. LLoyd Having used many rolls of gaffer's tape, I can assure you while the old duct tape and gaffer's tape may share the same fabric structure, the adhesive is very different. Gaffer's tape adhesive is made to have a relatively strong hold, but to not leave any residue when removed. |
#23
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language: The missing engineering skill
"J. Clarke" fired this volley in
in.local: But if you look into the history of it, it appears that "duct" is the actual corruption. It was originally a tape with a backing of a type of fabric called "duck", and was used for sealing ammunition cans, not HVAC ducts. There was a very early tape made from duck. It was "floppy" and flexible, and did well working over extremely uneven surfaces. But there also a formally-called "duct tape" made from canvas, not duck, and very stiff -- designed to seal the gaps in uniformly-sized pipes... LLoyd |
#24
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language: The missing engineering skill
"Pete C." fired this volley in news:504fa688$0$9167
: Gaffer's tape adhesive is made to have a relatively strong hold, but to not leave any residue when removed. Leave it on in the sun for about a week, and then tell me about that. Most gaffers and other stage crew strike the stuff they assemble every night, and it's _usually_ not in full sun for several days. I've got apple boxes covered with gaffer's tape "stains". I've used hundreds of rolls in my fireworks shows. (FWIW, good-quality duct tape - before the aluminum iron-down stuff - would also come away clean until it got hot in an attic) LLoyd |
#25
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language: The missing engineering skill
Did they carry it around, in a hold dull? Or a carry dull?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd |
#26
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language: The missing engineering skill
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in
. 3.70: I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. I work at a research lab in Cambridge, MA, right next to MIT. We have a program where grad students do their thesis work at our lab, working with a staff member, but also supervised by a professor on the MIT campus. I've supervised four Master's theses now, and have read quite a few other recent ones. Even at a place like MIT, with a world-class reputation, the writing skills of the engineering students is pretty pathetic. In reviewing my student's theses, I spend far more time fixing spelling, grammar & poor organization than I do any real technical issues. If I'm going to sign off on it, it's going to be readable. Some professors aren't that fussy. I recently read one that had been "supervised" by a professor I know & respect, but that was done at a different MIT affiliated lab supervised primarily by a staff member. It was so full of mistakes it was embarassing. I suspect English wasn't the student's native language, but his supervisor's either didn't read it, or were too used to bad writing to care anymore. Doug White |
#27
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language: The missing engineering skill
"Pete C." wrote in message
... Having used many rolls of gaffer's tape, I can assure you while the old duct tape and gaffer's tape may share the same fabric structure, the adhesive is very different. Gaffer's tape adhesive is made to have a relatively strong hold, but to not leave any residue when removed. If you mess up the stage floor the dancers will kill you with their bare feet. Gaffer = grandfather, it means the master electrician. His assistant is the Best Boy, once the senior apprentice. |
#28
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language: The missing engineering skill
Doug White fired this volley in
: I suspect English wasn't the student's native language, but his supervisor's either didn't read it, or were too used to bad writing to care anymore. Yeah, Doug. I hate it when engineer's do that with their student's. It would be better to make them do their assigment's right, or fail them. LLoyd |
#29
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language: The missing engineering skill
On 09/11/2012 03:03 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In , says... On 9/11/2012 12:11 PM, Rick wrote: ... My favorites: a settling torch rod iron For a long time the local DRMO had "scrap irony" The quintessential "duck tape" has always grated on my ears... But if you look into the history of it, it appears that "duct" is the actual corruption. It was originally a tape with a backing of a type of fabric called "duck", and was used for sealing ammunition cans, not HVAC ducts. And I recall the military version being described, "Sheds water like a duck's back," and thus commonly referred to as, "Duck tape." -- Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42" |
#30
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language: The missing engineering skill
"Doug White" wrote in message
. .. I work at a research lab in Cambridge, MA, right next to MIT. We have a program where grad students do their thesis work at our lab, working with a staff member, but also supervised by a professor on the MIT campus. Doug White If it's the same lab, say hi to Mike Gansler for me. jsw |
#31
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language: The missing engineering skill
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:22:18 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote: On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 06:17:48 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd That was just at typo. The author meant "Saw-zawl" I like to be under cover when there is heavy per****itation. --- Gerry :-)} London,Canada |
#32
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language: The missing engineering skill
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:22:55 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Did they carry it around, in a hold dull? Or a carry dull? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message .3.70... I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd The worst part of it is there are so many things that sound the same (or close) or are spelled close to the same that are TOTALLY different - and getting the wrong word into a technical spec can REALLY screw things up when the guy following the instructions knows less about the engineering than the engineer knows about the instructions he has written. |
#33
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language: The missing engineering skill
wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:22:18 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 06:17:48 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd That was just at typo. The author meant "Saw-zawl" I like to be under cover when there is heavy per****itation. --- Gerry :-)} London,Canada Sometimes I get exhaustipated .... too tired to give a ****... |
#34
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language: The missing engineering skill
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"anorton" fired this volley in : Actually, it was originally called duck tape because it was made from cotton duck fabric and was water proof. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape That's one of those Wiki-Lies, probably written to defend the improper use of the term "duck". Since I'm old enough to remember, I'll tell you that the original DUCT tape was made like today's profession Gaffer's tape. It was made from canvas, not duck. Duck is a much heavier 2x2 weave that isn't ultimately as strong as a single flat-weave canvas. The original DUCT tape was strong, would stick tenaciously to everything, and WAS used (specifically) on AC ducting in the early days of the late 40's through the 1970s. In the mid-seventies, some cheap-for-the-dime retailers demanded that someone make a sticky tape with an inexpensive gauze fabric and a thin vinyl backing that "looked like duct tape"; for no other reason than to cheapen it. That cheap stuff "stuck" (as it were), and real duct tape became "Professional Gaffer's tape", which one can still buy. The original stuff presented a fabric backing, not a slick vinyl one, and was not designed to hold by itself, but to be wire-bound to the (then metal) ducting, then painted. It was a sealing mechanism, not a structural fastener. And it was good. Not like the crap you buy today under the same moniker. LLoyd I've uses the real stuff recently. It was something insane like $20 a roll at the counter of a photographic supply place. It's like a giant version of friction tape. It doesn't become unsticky, and can mostly be removed without leaving adhesive tracks and turning into dust. |
#36
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language: The missing engineering skill
"J. Clarke" fired this volley in
in.local: Tom, do you enjoy making a fool of yourself, because if you are going to accuse the scientists at Oak Ridge of ignorance with regard to nuclear energy that is _exactly_ what you are doing. I don't believe that's what he did. I believe he was 'diagonally' denying that they would be ignorant enough to pronounce the word "nuculus". Lloyd |
#37
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language: The missing engineering skill
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
Tom, do you enjoy making a fool of yourself, because if you are going to accuse the scientists at Oak Ridge of ignorance with regard to nuclear energy that is _exactly_ what you are doing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucular "U.S. presidents who have used this pronunciation include Dwight D. Eisenhower, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush." Carter used both versions. |
#38
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language: The missing engineering skill
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:11:40 -0400, "Rick"
wrote: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message .3.70... I noticed this one in an explosives chemistry forum (speaking of charcoal types): "... 18v dewalt saw-zaw ..." A society in which the members cannot communicate any technical information in detail cannot prosper. Lloyd My favorites: a settling torch rod iron For a long time the local DRMO had "scrap irony" I had a Pennysaver ad come out once, and I quickly bit their heads off for it. They said I offered "Softwear Services". sigh -- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams |
#39
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language: The missing engineering skill
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:31:19 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: Doug White fired this volley in : I suspect English wasn't the student's native language, but his supervisor's either didn't read it, or were too used to bad writing to care anymore. Yeah, Doug. I hate it when engineer's do that with their student's. It would be better to make them do their assigment's right, or fail them. Thats right. or Your right. (Either makes one cringe. And our brains fill in for the missing "n" there.) -- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams |
#40
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language: The missing engineering skill
On 9/11/2012 10:46 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
.... Anyone who takes the Southern pronunciation of "nuclear" as a sign of ignorance needs to spend some time in the nuclear engineering department at one of the Oak Ridge Associated Universities. Chuckle... Hell, I'm a NE (BS '68, MS NucSci '79) and not even from anyways close to "the South" and I say it that way about as often as not. Did spend 10 yr in Lynchburg, VA (B&W NPGD) then 25+ in Oak Ridge, though so it does rub off... I wasn't there early enough to know firsthand how Fermi said it altho Wigner was definitely not a practicer. http://www.ornl.gov/adm/wigner_fellowship/ I always get a chuckle recalling a package received in Dept Head's office at uni addressed to the "Department of Unclear Engineering" -- -- |
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